Should Christian Parents send their kids to public schools?

We've discussed homeschooling a little on this forum. Most of you know that my wife and I homeschool our children.

Sometimes because of finances, or other situations, parents have no choice but to send their kids to public schools.

But I'm interested in hearing from those who purposely put their kids in public schools, and do not necessarily think homeschooling is the better option... or perhaps oppose homeschooling all together. Would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

I'm not trying to pick a fight! Just really interested in hearing opposing views on this.

And on the flip side of that... how many here do homeschool?

Krispy

I dont have time to get into this right now, but will later. If I dont, remind me, ok?

But breifly most colleges now are actively recruiting homeschoolers. Homeschoolers on average score much higher on SATs and other college entrance exams. Also, colleges recognize that homeschoolers generally tend to be self motivated and more self-discipled than their public school peers. This has become very attractive to colleges.

However, I would recommend you dont send your homeschoolers to a secular college. Heck, I wouldnt even recommend most "christian" colleges. We need to be very cautious about that.

While academic excellence is certainly something we want for our boys... the reason my wife and I homeschool is mainly because we want to raise men of God who will rock this world for Jesus. Academics are secondary.

I'll write more later.

Krispy

Hi Chris,

As I read your post I thought, 'well, not every homeschool student is going to need that type of further education...' but that's another topic. ;-) I did want to say that there are other alternatives to the traditional college route that many homeschool students have taken advantage of. It takes more discipline but takes less time and money and applies knowledge the student already has instead of causing them to sit through hours of unnecessary training just to get a degree. http://www.globallearningstrategies.org
Here's a few testimonials from students who have gone this route:

[i]Student Testimonies

Here’s how accelerated distance learning methods are helping students earn their degrees:

“Rather than spending seven years and over $100,000 earning my degree and becoming a CPA, I am using accelerated distance learning to reach this goal in less than three years and for less than $5,000” - Erik, Des Moines, IA

“ Accelerated distance learning allowed me to earn a Bachelor’s and a Master’s degree by the age of sixteen.” – Alexandra, El Paso, TX

“ Using accelerated distance learning, I plan on earning my Bachelor’s Degree before my eighteenth birthday.” – David, Chicago, IL

“ Although I’m only doing part-time study, accelerated distance learning has enabled me to complete an average of three credits per week toward my degree. The skills I have learned are essential for success in my distance-learning program, but more importantly they will continue to benefit me throughout life.” – Kyle, Lakeland, FL

“ Instead of spending four years trapped on a college campus, I was able to graduate Cum Laude with my Bachelors of Science in Business and History, one year, seven months from my date of enrollment!” - David, Gary, IN[/i]

So, there are ways to overcome the obstacles the the world places out there for people who choose to take the less traditional path of homeschooling. And homeschooling is becoming more popular and more recognized, even as Krispy brought out.

As for a personal example of scholarships. I have a friend who obtained a degree with a major in physicology and minor in English mainly by taking CLEP tests and then he enrolled in [url=https://www.excelsior.edu/]Excelsior[/url] (I think) and finished up his degree. He recently decided on going to lawschool and after applying for scholarships all over the country he has a full scholarship for the University of Alabama Law School.

There are so many opportunities out there for homeschooled students. And I really think that homeschooling gives a greater opportunity for the student to pursue the topic or subject that interests him the most. I remember hearing a testimony of a young man who as a child was really interested in the guns/cannons of the civil war, and his parents encouraged him in his interest and he studied guns, metel, etc. And in his later teen years it opened up a great job opportunity for which he was already prepared because of his studying in that area. And I could go on with more examples...but I'll stop there.

My parents started homeschooling nearly twenty years ago. So that's all I ever really experienced. :) But it's definitely the route I'd want to go if I had kids. Oh, and this was the [url=http://ati.iblp.org/ati/]program[/url] I grew up in. It has great material and opportunities for young people.

~Joy

My husband has a five year old daughter who will be of kindergarten age for the next school year. Due to circumstances in the custody arrangement, she will be attending public school. Private Christian schools have much higher tuition than we can afford, and the odds that my stepdaughter's mom would be willing to pay her half are very slim. So to public school it is.

If we ever get full custody, homeschooling will be reconsidered. At this point, however, it isn't an option. So we will pray that she learns the Truth, despite what the schools try to teach her. We pray that the Spirit of God would reveal to her that which is true and that which is false. If false teaching arise, we pray that she will discern the things which are of God. Prayer is all we can do.

I went to public schools throughout my education, and went to a secular college for a year. There were actually very few instances where I had to close my ears to what my instructors were saying (with the exception of when I took both cultural anthropology and sociology courses, both taught by the same instructor at the community college and found myself wincing often at his teachings)

As long as the children are able to learn the word of God from their parents, friends, AND church (not 'or'), there shouldn't be trouble. Especially if the parents are praying (in faith!) people. My parents didn't teach me much; my dad taught me some, but my mom is still not serving God. But I was able to get plugged in to a great group of people who not only taught me, but learned with me, and prayed with me. And despite 13 years of secular education, God protected me from learning and believing the lies that have infiltrated this so-called "education" system. I believe He can protect my stepdaughter in the same way.

It takes praying and involved parents to get a child thru the public school system intact. I can certainly understand your situation, and clearly there isnt anything you can do at this point.

Unfortunately, most Christian parents in our society are no different than their pagan counterparts in the world. They are just as materialistic, therefore both parents work in order to have the big house, the SUV's, the X-Box, etc etc... so off to public school the kids go. They put money and possessions before God.

Most Christian parents allow their kids to listen to any old music, watch whatever movies they want, and waste 4 - 5 hours in front of the TV... parents AND kids.

Hardly read their Bibles, never have family devotions, never teach their kids about the Bible... much less about godly character, etc...

And then when Johnny or Mary turns out bad the first thing they blame... is the church. The church didnt do enough to keep their kid on the straight and narrow.

[b]wonserwonton[/b]... I completely understand and sympathize with your situation. You are an exception. Yes, pray. Yes, have faith in God to protect her... but also be prepared to do everything in your home AND your life to model for this precious little girl what a godly woman is to be. Teach her every minute you are with her about God and His Word.

And if you ever do get full custody (which I pray you do)... homeschool!

Blessings on you, sister...

Krispy

My kids attend a public school because my husband prefers the public school system over homeschooling. It's a challenge for me and for them and it takes alot of prayer but the enemy can put all kinds of roadblocks in your way no matter what you choose. Everything in life takes much prayer.

To add to that though homeschooling in my opinion is always better than the public school system and that is where my husband and I do not agree but he is the head of this household and so it is God ordained.

My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.

I think of King David though and Absolom, even he had problems so we can only do as we are able and the rest is in the hands of the Lord who can do above and beyond all we can ever ask or imagine. He is the potter and I am just clay.

My kids attend a public school because my husband prefers the public school system over homeschooling. It's a challenge for me and for them and it takes alot of prayer but the enemy can put all kinds of roadblocks in your way no matter what you choose. Everything in life takes much prayer.

Most homeschool dads will tell you they didnt like the idea of homeschooling, and were against it at first. Most homeschool moms will tell you that they prayed fervently that the Lord would change their husband's heart toward homeschooling... and He did!

So pray for your husband if homeschooling is something you want to do. This "pre-ordained" stuff needs to be forgotten... thats just a cop out for most folks. I know hundreds of couples where God laid it on the WIFE to homeschool first, and then thru her prayers the heart of the husband was changed. Please dont just throw up your hands and say "God pre-ordained it, theres nothing I can do about it!" Thats a lie.

My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.

I will pray that your husband will step up and be the spiritual leader in your home. I'm not trying to knock you husband because I dont know anything about him... but when a dad puts television (or anything else for that matter) above family devotions... he isnt leading as he should. So I will pray hard for him.

Being a spiritual leader in your home is hard work, which is why most men avoid it. But boy, once you get into the swing of it, it's the most rewarding thing in life.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

My kids attend a public school because my husband prefers the public school system over homeschooling. It's a challenge for me and for them and it takes alot of prayer but the enemy can put all kinds of roadblocks in your way no matter what you choose. Everything in life takes much prayer.

Most homeschool dads will tell you they didnt like the idea of homeschooling, and were against it at first. Most homeschool moms will tell you that they prayed fervently that the Lord would change their husband's heart toward homeschooling... and He did!

So pray for your husband if homeschooling is something you want to do. This "pre-ordained" stuff needs to be forgotten... thats just a cop out for most folks. I know hundreds of couples where God laid it on the WIFE to homeschool first, and then thru her prayers the heart of the husband was changed. Please dont just throw up your hands and say "God pre-ordained it, theres nothing I can do about it!" Thats a lie.

My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.

I will pray that your husband will step up and be the spiritual leader in your home. I'm not trying to knock you husband because I dont know anything about him... but when a dad puts television (or anything else for that matter) above family devotions... he isnt leading as he should. So I will pray hard for him.

Being a spiritual leader in your home is hard work, which is why most men avoid it. But boy, once you get into the swing of it, it's the most rewarding thing in life.

Krispy

Thanks Krispy, I haven't given up. My oldest is turning 16 so it's almost too late for her but my youngest is 8, so there is still an opportunity there. What I meant by 'ordained' is that I'm under my husband but I know that public school is not the way to go if you can help it.

I see you did well in your English Lit class too! :-P

Krispy

Some of the homeschoolers that I know are so detached from the world that they just seem to struggle with the thought of eventually entering the workplace. Their hearts are so clean and innocent of the knowledge of this world and its system (“LIFE 101,” so to speak) that I wonder just how well that they will integrate into society with a job, family, etc… Of course, I know some other homeschoolers who are probably better prepared than anyone to face the trials and tribulations of life. I think this really has to do with the parents (the teachers) within each homeschool.

This is not as much a dilema as some think it is. We have folks in our family who insist we need to expose our children to the things of this world (i.e. [b]sin[/b]) because after all, they reason, they'll be exposed to it eventually anyway! What awful parents we are because our kids arent allowed to read or watch Harry Potter, or some wretched TV show.

Where is the Biblical principle for that?

This does not mean that we dont teach our children about sex, or other issues that the world has perverted. But scripture tells us in no uncertain terms that we are to be seperate from the world. That does not mean seperate as in holed up in the house. (I wish my wife and kids were home more! They're always running off to homeschool events, 4-H, etc etc... poor unsocialized souls!) We need to engage the culture we live in, but we are not to participate in the culture's sinful behavior.

So we teach our children how to live holy and godly lives... to hate sin and obey God... and there isnt anything the world has to offer in the way of temptation that isnt covered in the Bible. There is nothing new under the sun.

If we teach them the Bible cover to cover, and if they are truly saved... they will be more than prepared to go out into the world... and engage the culture.

The ultimate goal of homeschooling for my wife and I is not to raise kids who score high SAT scores, or read on a higher level than public school kids... altho that is one benefit of homeschooling. Our ultimate goal is to raise godly men who will win souls to Christ, and one day hear Him say "Well done good and faithful servant. Enter into My rest."

If we raise hyper smart kids, but they dont reach the above mentioned goal... she and I will have failed.

Krispy

Suppose a child who is a christian asks his dad if he can be homeschooled because he doesn't want to be exposed to the philosophy of the world and be influenced by the unsaved world and his dad says "No, your going to a public school" Don't you believe that God will protect that child from that evil influence? I do.

What our sons may be equiped to handle or be able to "hold up under" may not be the same for our daughters. I believe that God has ordained that our daughters stay under the protection of their parents until they are given in marriage to another man. I realize that there are some exceptions, but they should be just that, not the rule.

Since we're only raising godly men in our house... I'll leave that one alone. But we do need godly women for our sons when the time comes. :-)

Krispy

Would it be totally off to relate the "going into the world" experience of public schools to that of Peter walking on the water? Sure, there is the fear of what could happen, but what about faith to overcome those fears and obstacles?

But we're not operating on fear, we're operating on obedience. We're being obedient to the Word of God when we are "shade for the children", and when we live out Psalm 1.

Fear has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Unless we're talking about fear of God... which, interestingly enough, is the beginning of wisdom according to scripture.

Yes, you can look at all the bad that could maybe take place in the public school system

Could maybe? How about [b]is[/b] happening. Do you watch the news?

but are you overlooking the potential good that could also take place?

Children are not missionaries. Children are in training. You dont build a boat in the middle of the ocean, you build it on land and then once you think it is water proof you float it around in a harbor to be sure before you launch it into the ocean.

Public schools are a wonderful mission field for Christian adults who want to go into that mission field as teachers... and perhaps some rare older teenagers... but for the most part children are not called to be missionaries in the public schools. Remember, the school is there to shape their minds... and shape their minds they will.

I think it would be a testiment of faith for a child (young adult) to stand strong in his/her faith in the midst of a fallen world.

There are plenty of opportunities to do that in a more controlled environment. Most homeschoolers are around public school kids in their extended families, in sports, in 4-H, in their churches, etc. This is how they can stand strong, and learn to evangelize... not turn them over to a godless government school everyday all day.

I don't know. I see your point, but I've also experienced both worlds, so I see the advantages and disadvantages of both sides I s'pose.

But you yourself have admitted to the negative effects it had on you. I'm glad you came out the other end trusting in God tho.

Blessing on you too, brother.

Krispy

Suppose a child who is a christian asks his dad if he can be homeschooled because he doesn't want to be exposed to the philosophy of the world and be influenced by the unsaved world and his dad says "No, your going to a public school" Don't you believe that God will protect that child from that evil influence? I do.

Yea, I agree w/ Miccah. In fact, if a child asked their father that with the father responding the way you suggest, it would actually appear to the child that the father was ok with what the child was being exposed to... making it ok with the child.

God [i]can[/i] protect that child, but thats up to God. Hey, I'm a child of God, born again and spirit-filled... but guess what... He doesnt always keep evil things from happening to me.

Krispy

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
My question concerns the availability of such scholarships to those students who are homeschooled. Are there any figures that indicate the acceptance rate of homeschooled children at major colleges and universities? While walking Lucia through the application process (neither of her parents speak English), I noticed that some schools do not make a distinction between “home schools,” “private schools,” or “public schools.”

All students need to take the ACT and the SAT... this is where the colleges get their potential students. Now, my friend's son missed a full ride because of his high school gpa. So I'm not sure how they could find out a home-schooled student's gpa, unless it's through the yearly state tests they have to take(?). I don't know how home-schools keep transcripts.

Sorry I didn't help much,

Someone mentioned not sending their kids to a secular college earlier in this.

I went to a church that had a lot of homeschool families in it and the experience wasn't pleasant. While there, I came very close to homeschooling my sons but then I started watching them and really talking with them about how they did it (not that any are on this forum, not unless you are from knoxville, tn!!). The homeschoolers "I" knew were controlling parents, the ability to control seemed to fit right in with homeschooling. These particular people and church controlled EVERY aspect of their child's life. My sons were shunned by these homeschooled kids because they weren't "homeschoolers." They had to learn shunning from somewhere!!! The parents.

Now, I know this isn't true for all homeschoolers, I'm just telling you as an outsider what I saw being their so-called friend. I was very turned off the parents exclusionary ways.

I only say that because krispy asked why some of us choose NOT to homeschool. This is one of my main reasons.

This brings me to another reason. I disagree with a statement that we shouldn't send our children to secular universities. Why not? Aren't we called to be light and salt? How can we be when we are constantly hidden in the folds of like-minded people thru christian schools and universities?

When will a child be old enough to be light and dark in this sinful world? I want to protect my kids but they have to learn on their own. I know this isn't true with just homeschoolers, there are controlling parents everywhere! I'm not necessarily controlling as much as I am, "Who are you going with? Where are you going? What's the parent's phone number, I need to talk to them and meet them OR you're not going!" Cautious and hovering would be more of the words!!

I'm definitely not saying I've raised my kids the best way - in the secular schools. They are good boys and it's in spite of me through the grace of God they are good boys definitely not because of me! God is good. I trust the same God who loves me will love my children just as much. He sought me and I believe that he will seek them.

Actually I think Wake-Forest now is not accepting SAT scores for entrance. They have discovered that the SAT is not reliable in determining if a kid will be a good student. They have discovered that all it really means is that the student is good at taking tests.

I'll look and see if I can find where my wife read that. She was telling me about it last evening, in fact.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Suppose a child who is a christian asks his dad if he can be homeschooled because he doesn't want to be exposed to the philosophy of the world and be influenced by the unsaved world and his dad says "No, your going to a public school" Don't you believe that God will protect that child from that evil influence? I do.

Yea, I agree w/ Miccah. In fact, if a child asked their father that with the father responding the way you suggest, it would actually appear to the child that the father was ok with what the child was being exposed to... making it ok with the child.

God [i]can[/i] protect that child, but thats up to God. Hey, I'm a child of God, born again and spirit-filled... but guess what... He doesnt always keep evil things from happening to me.

Krispy

But what if he has a mother who is living for God, teaching him in the ways of the Lord and praying for him? :-)

I went to a church that had a lot of homeschool families in it and the experience wasn't pleasant. While there, I came very close to homeschooling my sons but then I started watching them and really talking with them about how they did it (not that any are on this forum, not unless you are from knoxville, tn!!). The homeschoolers "I" knew were controlling parents, the ability to control seemed to fit right in with homeschooling. These particular people and church controlled EVERY aspect of their child's life. My sons were shunned by these homeschooled kids because they weren't "homeschoolers." They had to learn shunning from somewhere!!! The parents.

Actually, we lived in Maryville & Friendsville when I was attending UT after I got out of the Marines... so I do know a bit about Knoxville. :-)

Most homeschoolers are not like that. But there does tend to be a snobiness among some. But I also find that many non-homeschoolers look at homeschoolers with A LOT of preconceived notions, and so they sometimes look to be offended by homeschoolers.

And as with anything else in life... if you're looking to be offended you will find what you're looking for.

By the way, dont throw my UT education back in my lap... this was before we had kids and even considered homeschooling. I wasnt even saved when I enrolled there. I was saved during my time in Knoxville. Kids came during my studies, and homeschooling came afterwards. :-)

This brings me to another reason. I disagree with a statement that we shouldn't send our children to secular universities. Why not? Aren't we called to be light and salt? How can we be when we are constantly hidden in the folds of like-minded people thru christian schools and universities?

83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation. Thats why. I'll find the exact stats if you would like. Ever been in a residence hall? You honestly want to pay to send your kids there? If so... you're nuts.

Why not send them to a sound Christian college?

As for being controlling... hey, we have a calling as Christian parents to be "shade for the children". We are to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Psalm 1 and all of Proverbs give many many warnings about our dealings with the ungodly. It gives much advice to what is wisdom and what is not.

But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.

Why not send our kids to public schools and secular universities? Because there is a war on for our children. Spiritual warfare is not about finding demons hiding behind pews... it's about about raising our children in such a manner as to not give Satan a foothold.

But unfortunately most Christians today consider good parenting to mean that by 18 their kid isnt in jail, pregnant or dead.

[b]I want more than that for my kids.[/b]

And no one can successfully argue against homeschooling because even the secular universities and colleges recognize that homeschooling is successful and are actively recruiting homeschool students. Christian colleges even more so.

Here in North Carolina do you realize homeschool students are, by law, not allowed to take the same "end of grade" tests as the public school kids? Know why? Because it throws off the results because generally speaking homeschoolers score higher on them. Our Congressman told my wife and I that.

Thats pretty cool.

Krispy

But what if he has a mother who is living for God, teaching him in the ways of the Lord and praying for him?

Sorry... just not into playing "what if" games. It's a never ending circle and gives me a headache.

8-)

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

But what if he has a mother who is living for God, teaching him in the ways of the Lord and praying for him?

Sorry... just not into playing "what if" games. It's a never ending circle and gives me a headache.

8-)

Krispy

Daniel 6:16-23

16Then the king commanded, and they brought Daniel, and cast him into the den of lions. Now the king spake and said unto Daniel, Thy God whom thou servest continually, he will deliver thee.

17And a stone was brought, and laid upon the mouth of the den; and the king sealed it with his own signet, and with the signet of his lords; that the purpose might not be changed concerning Daniel.

18Then the king went to his palace, and passed the night fasting: neither were instruments of musick brought before him: and his sleep went from him.

19Then the king arose very early in the morning, and went in haste unto the den of lions.

20And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: and the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?

21Then said Daniel unto the king, O king, live for ever.

22My God hath sent his angel, and hath shut the lions' mouths, that they have not hurt me: forasmuch as before him innocency was found in me; and also before thee, O king, have I done no hurt.

23Then was the king exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, because he believed in his God.

SOCIALIZATION
It has been of great interest to me to observe the critics of the fastgrowing Home Education movement. It has been my experience that one of the most common accusations made to parents wishing to educate their children at home is that the children will suffer due to lack of socialization. By this the concerned critic
of Home Education is voicing the fear that Johnny may end up socially retarded if he does not rub shoulders with enough of his peers and may not know how to get along in society as a well adjusted personality.

Many voices of this school of thought are convinced that maximum exposure for Johnny to friends and activities is an absolute necessity for his well being and has a far reaching impact on his ability to get along in a complex world.

Not surprisingly many Christians have obligingly
accepted this theory as fact and have diligently
sought to socialize their children. Most have found out to their chagrin that once their child has been properly socialized they have more than they bargained for.

Instead of producing Spurgeons, Moodys, Hudson Taylors and the like(you add your own names to the list),socialization has largely produced carnal worldly feeling oriented Laodicean Christian youth.

Even the pagan world has authoritatively documented the deleterious effects of television on young minds.Yet Christians are still heard to not only defend it but they maintain one is depriving his family if he destroys the family altar (television). My dear Christian friend your TV is indeed socializing your youngsters but in a way you will profoundly regret in
years to come.

How about friends? Surely our children should have many of them, especially if they are found in church and at our Christian school. May I respectfully point out that our churches and Christian schools in this country are filled with hardhearted youth whose hearts are clearly inclined toward this world. Because a youngster is involved in a church youth group or Christian school does not guarantee the impeccability of his character! Many teen girls and boys over the
years have confessed to having had intimate relations,even in the church building while activities are going on in other parts of the building! Christian school students use alcohol and dope. They lose their purity; they kill their babies. All of the wickedness you observe in the mass media has been commited and
confessed to by many in church youth groups and
enrolled in Christian schools.

How a child behaves in and adjusts to his family can be a possible forecast of how he will function in the world around him as an adult. This is precisely why it is so vital that he be taught to immediately and sweetly obey authority, learn the lessons of self-control over his flesh and feelings and learn how to lovingly interract with his siblings. He will learn to function as a self-controlled responsible adult who realizes from his childhood training that giving vent to excess and following feelings create problems.

Witness an early agrarian America with its rural
economy which, in many instances, saw families living in comparative isolation from their nearest neighbors.Education and socialization of necesssity took place within the confines of the immediate family circle.Responsibility and Godly character thus formed produced many a charactered leader.
God providentially places children in specific homes.Their problem by and large is not their old fashioned parents but their unwillingness to obey Godly authority. A rebel may well find comfort, acceptance and solace in the arms of uncharactered friends but he has bypassed his primary responsibility. To put it another way, a child properly socialized with his parents and siblings is a far better prepared candidate for marriage and ministry than one who is primarily socialized with friends. Instead of obligingly going along with whatever direction your child is heading and instead of accepting his circle
of friends and activities you must choose them for him based on your scripture enlightened discernments.

It is about time some Christian parents said to
another set of parents, Our kids are not good for one another.

This is not unloving. That is love and genuine caring.We must very carefully gauge the effect children have on one another.

Scripture warns us that evil character is contagious (I Corinthians 15:33; Haggai 2:12-13; Proverbs 22:24-25). If your child has one friend with evil character he will very likely be infected with that character in most cases. You must very carefully choose his friends and associations and just as closely monitor his activities. The chief friends of a child ought to be his Godly parents and secondarily his Godly siblings. Other friends and associations
should have a lesser priority.

To some these ideas seem narrow and restrictive. This is true. So are the Scriptures. In fact the Scriptures picture the Godly life in that way and yet it is filled with happiness peace and joy.

Whereas worldly Christians are busily socializing
their children to their detriment and exposing them to all manner of things this world has to offer, the "narrowminded" agrees with Paul: "I would have you wise unto that which is good and simple concerning evil" (Romans 16:19). Ask Jacob and Leah how happy they were when their daughter Dinah was socialized!(Genesis 34:15). Read the Old Testament closely and see how God was pleased when Israel became socialized with the pagan nations around her. Israel's many
compromises and her ultimate apostasy should stand out as clear warnings for us today (I Corinthians 10:11).

Noah appeared to the world of his day as a religious fanatic yet his family alone was saved. Abraham kept his family at arm's length from his Canaanite neighbors and their filthy abominations. Jonadab refused to obey the social planners and polite society of his day, maintained a strict lifestyle for himself
and his family and had the joy of looking over the ramparts of Heaven 400 years later to see his
descendants still living separated lives (Jeremiah 35:10) uncontaminated by the world.

It is my prayer that you see the two contrasting
principles in all of this. It is the satanically
dominated world which says socialize in this manner,whereas it is the Word of God that says SEPARATE!

(the above article was found in my e-mail inbox)

What follows is an e-mail I sent to a number of professing christians. Many of those professing christians were "pastors" of "churches".

I thought it would be an appropriate place to post it as this thread is addressing these very same issues. I post this in hopes that it may serve some here in their pursuit of His Holy will in sanctifying those children given them by God in the area of education.

I believe I have plainly stated previously on this thread what I understand the mind of God to be on the matter.

I do hope that this serves to further clarify those claims from God's Holy infallible Word.

Here is the question I put forth:

I was wondering if you might furnish me with a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted.
Please reply ASAP if able,
______________
PS APOLOGIA - The Greek word meaning "a spoken or written defense." It appears eight times in the New Testament, in the context of people defending their faith or actions by reason and logic.
From Webster's Dictionary: apologia \\ap-uh-LOH-jee-uh;-juh\\, noun:
A formal defense or justification, especially of one's opinions, position, or actions.
From Websters Dictionary (1828 edition) Apologetic
Defending by words or arguments; excusing; said or written in defense, or by way of apology; as an apologetic essay.
"But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you..." 1 Peter 3:15

I received but two responses. All others chose not to reply.

Here is one response from a "pastor" I received. Note: I knew him quite well as we attended where he "pastored" for awhile. We had him in our home and he had us in his. He was a young married man of 26 years of age. A fine aspiring,intelligent,friendly young man indeed. Yet,in my opinion he was not qualified to be an elder/pastor.

Hey _______: Thanks for your email. You ask a good question, although the innuendos (overtones) in your question indicate you aren't really asking a question. Kinda like me (A Presbyterian) asking a Baptist, "You don't REALLY believe that every single person in the NT was Immersed DO YOU?" Not a question to learn, but a question to make a statement, and possibly provoke an argument. I would caution you with the exhortation of Hebrews, "make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord. See to it that no one misses THE GRACE OF GOD, and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many." It is my observation that many Christian parents today are primarily motivated by bitterness (some bordering on hatred) of public schools, and can only define their beliefs re. education in OPPOSITION to public education. The "education question" has torn apart churches. (Rom. 14:10) James says, "the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure, then peace loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial, and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness." (3:17-18) Whatever educational process we pursue, it should equip us to love God and to love our neighbor. The RP Testimony brings some wisdom on the question of education, "In the providence of God public schools have provided great social benefits. Yet in serving a highly pluralistic society they have attempted to be religiously and morally "neutral" which is sinful. To a large extent instruction is based on a secular, humanistic philosophy which ignores God and sees man's welfare as the highest good. Local schools vary widely, however, according to the standards of the community and quality of the teachers." (Mt. 12:30; 2 Sa. 23:3-4) "Where necessary and POSSIBLE, Christian parents should cooperate in supporting or establishing schools whose curriculum present a biblical world and life view, and place their children in them. This requires maintenance of the highest academic quality along with Christian orientation in every subject and activity." "We reject any attempt by the state to force a secular, humanistic philosophy on Christian schools. Parents should take care to counteract any unbiblical teaching given to their children, whether in public or Christian schools. As youth increase in their knowledge and discernment, the home and the Church should help them to examine what is presented in school, to distinguish between God-given truths and human theories, and to integrate the facts learned with a Christian view of man and the universe." (Reformed Presbyterian Testimony 24.31-34) Both my wife and I are products of both Christian schooling and homeschooling. I had a very positive, Christ-centered, church-centered home education experience. Sue observed friends who had a very backward, charismatic, anti-intellectual, legalistic home education experience. Today they are completely unable to excel in the REAL world, with little ability to out-think the opposition or present a robust argument for truth. Both of us have friends who today hate their parents, the church, and God BECAUSE of their home education experience - an experience which focused on outward rules rather than hearts (1 Sa. 16:7). We both heartily agree that it is a HUGE mistake to equate a particular FORM (outward) of education with God's Biblical standards for education -- which are largely RESULT-oriented (inward, eg. 2 Sa. 23:3-4). This world is too "messy," and education is too grand an endeavor to reduce it to FORM. It is interesting to me that the Bible actually has very little to say about the day-to-day form of education, but rather places responsibility on the shoulders of parents (Deut. 6:1-6; Eph. 6:4), who will be accountable to God for how they acquitted themselves in the education of their children. Clearly the writer of Psalm 119 had others than his mother and father teaching him. (Ps. 119:99). Daniel and his friends were trained in the language and literature of the Babylonians, (Dan. 1:4) and though Daniel had to take stands against those teaching him, he was able to use his knowledge and influence for the glory of God, even in Babylon. Paul called on his extensive "secular" education when rubbing shoulders with the Ph.D.s of his day (Acts 17). He said he became "all things to all people, that by all means I might save some." (1 Co. 9:22) Paul forbade the Corinthians from associating with sexually immoral and unrepentant brothers, "not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world." (1 Cor. 5:10) As I grow in Christ, I'm endeavoring to define education by what it IS, not by what it's NOT. I want to help conscientious parents do what God has called them to do raise up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. When it comes to educating children, how grateful I am for God's tremendous outpouring of grace. I'm thankful we don't need to "get it all right" to be pleasing to our Father, who loves us not because of our performance, but because we are "in Christ." ________________

My reply to the "pastor":

__________,
That God our Father,by,through,and for our
LORD Jesus the Christ's sake,cares for us(1
Pet.5:7),succors us(Heb.2:18),comforts us(2
Cor.1:4),knows us(Num.16:5;2Tim.2:19),prays for
us(John 17:9;Heb.7:25),and keeps us(1Pet.1:5)I am
eternally grateful,humbled and awed. That He calls me a son(1John 3:1)of God,and is become a Father to me(2Cor.6:18;2Sam.7:14)rejoices my heart and satisfies my soul. If we take His words in our mouth to others,may we tremble as we do(Isa.66:2),lest we become men-pleasers and not prophets of God as Ezekiel (Ezek.33:32,33).
Recommended article:
http://christianunplugged.com/tozercross.htm
That God would have you acknowledge my electronic mail I am thankful as well as hopeful. As far as the content of the electronic mail in the way it was stated,it served its purpose.
You did not furnish me with "a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted". Nor did you attempt to dispute wether or no I portrayed an accurate picture of the environment of those places in question. I ended by asking you to
"Please reply ASAP if able". If you were not able,you should have just said so.
You then judged my motives by saying " Not a question to learn, but a question to make a statement, and possibly provoke an argument." You then proceeded to caution and exhort me
by using God's Holy Word quoting from Hebrews. A poor application indeed seeing you did not even refute any gainsaying (to deny or declare not to be true what another says; to controvert; to dispute; applied to persons, or to propositions, declarations or facts)of mine and in consideration that while "following peace with all men," we are not so to seek to please them, as to make God's will and our sanctification a
secondary object,the latter must be our first aim
having our conscience clear before both God and
man(Gal.1:10).

You then proceeded to give me your observation rather than God's Law-Word on the matter. This is similar to one of the errors contributing to the breakdown of the judicial system of the U.S. where what is called "case law" is practiced in the place of constitutional law. I also see a relation to what is called "situational ethics" albeit in a somewhat different sphere.
You then proceed to make a statement as though it is fact "The "education question" has torn
apart churches". And quote Rom. 14:10 and James
3:17-18 as if these support your conclusions. And
again you follow these verses with your own words
"Whatever educational process we pursue, it
should equip us to love God and to love our neighbor" as if God's Word in the preceeding verses prove such to be so. Thus far you have taken texts out of their context to use as prooftexts.

You then proceed to appeal to man again. A Testimony of a "denomination",which I need not remind you that Scripture repudiates denominationalism. But again,this is not to your credit, as these men you appeal to do not appeal to the Scriptures but rather one another.You say that "The RP Testimony brings some wisdom on the question of education." I'd contest that and apply 1 Cor. 1:20 and 1 Cor. 2:14:15 realizing
that the object in view in these verses is Christ and the Gospel. Yet "all things" regarding our duty and responsibility toward God are to be diligently inquired into and that by "sola scriptura". I conclude from their words that they're guilty on this point of being "blind guides leading the blind".
You then proceed to your experience and the experience of others. I will not argue with an experience because experience is no
argument. Yet you do make some assumptions and
apparent allegations. Are we to buy into the lies and excuses men and women give that they "hate their parents, the church, and God BECAUSE of..." as you claim "their home education experience". You may believe and swallow such lies but I am not convinced
that God will(Heb.4:13). The only thing you could say from God's Word on this subject followed next, "It is interesting to me that the Bible actually has very little to say about the day-to-day form of education,but rather places responsibility on the shoulders of parents (Deut. 6:1-6; Eph. 6:4)". You then resort to
your poor prooftexts once again. In Psalm 119:99
David's teachers were the prophets, priests and
Levites, who sat in Moses's chair, and whose lips
ought to have kept knowledge, but who neglected the study of the law, and minded their honours and formalities only of their religion; and so David, who conversed much with the scriptures, by that means became more intelligent than they.

One commentator commented thus on this verse "In short, he means to affirm, that whoever yields himself with docility to God, keeps his thoughts in subjection to his word, and exercises himself
diligently in meditating upon the Law, will thence derive wisdom sufficient for enabling him to consult his own safety in opposition to the stratagems of his enemies, to exercise circumspection requisite for escaping their deceits; and, finally, to match with the most eminent masters through the whole course of
his life. David, however, does not adduce his wisdom,that he may boast of it before the world; but, by his own example, he warns us, that nothing is better for us than to learn at God’s mouth, since those only are perfectly wise who are taught in his school. At the same time, sobriety is here enjoined upon the faithful, that they may not seek for wisdom elsewhere
than from God’s word, and that ambition or curiosity may not incite them to vain boasting. In short, all are here recommended to behave themselves with modesty and humility, that no man may claim to himself such knowledge as elevates him above the Divine Law; but that all men, however intelligent, may willingly yield
themselves to the lessons of heavenly wisdom revealed in the Divine Word. When he says, that he kept God’s statutes, he teaches us what kind of meditation it is of which we have spoken, to let us know that he did not coldly philosophies upon God’s precepts, but devoted himself to them with earnest affection".

You then appeal to exceptional men in the Scriptures as Daniel the prophet and Paul the apostle. As if the "historical narrative" concerning these men is an equalizer to attest to God's condoning of children being sent to the ravenous wolves and educational bureaucrats fueled by powerful teachers’ unions.

You continue with 1 Cor. 5:10. I will only comment upon this by noting the distinction between "associating" and "koinonia" and "instruction or counsel". Also bearing in mind the differences and treatment of both adult and child as the Scripture addresses and delineates upon each.
"Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership does righteousness have with lawlessness? And what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does a temple of God have with idols? For you are a temple of the living God, even as God said, "I will" dwell in them and "walk among them,and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
(Ref.Lev. 26:12; Ezek. 37:27)
Because of this, "come out from among them" "and be separated," says the Lord, "and do not touch the unclean thing," and I will receive you.(Ref.Isa.52:11)
"And I will be a Father to you, and you will be sons"and daughters to Me, says the Lord Almighty." (2 Cor.6:14-18) (Ref. 2 Sam. 7:8, 14; Isa.43:6)
I am thankful as well that "we don't need to
"get it all right" to be pleasing to our Father, who loves us not because of our performance, but because we are "in Christ.""
I despise arguing for arguments sake as I do the
display of knowledge for knowledge sake,yet for truth I am commited to die for as souls lie in the balance.Our children are entrusted to us,may we do them right by God. Recommended article:
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/mather/dut-par.htm

Would to God that you and I humble ourselves before God, putting our hand over our mouth if His Spirit has not enlightened us or sanctified us in any area of our lives or understanding, that we be not guilty of taking our LORD'S Name in vain.
Please read with discernment the following brief and humble reply I received from a seasoned saint and reformed pastor in his 60's who has been(for many years)and is serving the LORD. He received the exact same(excluding your name of course)electronic mail I sent you asking
that he furnish me with a Biblical defense of this issue. He wrote:
From: "______"
To: "__________"
Subject: Re: APOLOGIA
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 20:54:41 -0600

________,

Sorry it took me a couple of days to answer you. As far as I can tell I could not do what you asked, God did say of Abraham that he knew he would teach his children Gen 18:19.
Ultimately we are responsible for our children in
every aspect of their lives as long as they are under our care.

_________

________,I do earnestly yearn for, and hope I have kept up, an irenic spirit here, as I do earnestly contend for the faith once for all delivered unto the saints.
FYI-
"Educational leaders like John Dewey saw the public schools, often called the “common” schools, as the mechanism for indoctrinating children into a new democratic faith. The worldviews and eccentricities of the various ethical and national backgrounds would be
erased and a new melting pot of Americans would
emerge. Dewey, the most influential shaper of the
public schools in America, understood that the success of his effort would require children to be liberated from the prejudices and values of their parents.
In his book, A Common Faith, Dewey advocated
a radically secular vision for the public schools and the larger public culture. His concept of a humanistic faith, stripped of all supernatural claims, doctrines,and theological authorities, would replace Christianity as the dominant culture-shaping worldview. “Here are all the elements for a religious faith that shall not be confined to sect, class, or race,” he claimed. “Such a faith has always been the
common faith of mankind. It remains for us to make it explicit and militant.” (Dr. Albert Mohler)

It has taken longer than Dewey expected, but this
secularist faith is certainly explicit and militant now.
_________

His brief reply to me:

__________: Thanks for your email. I think that after your second email I better understand your intention in emailing. And it is appreciated. As I recall saying quite a few times, I agree with your intellectual position, and with your thorough documentation from Scripture. Christian parents raise Christians. Pagans raise pagans. The church needs to be bound together in TRUTH and LOVE. I appreciate the careful logic of your emails. ____________

I do hope this was profitable to some on S.I.

Biblical Policy on Keeping Covenant With God in the Education of Our Children

By Dr. Greg L. Bahnsen

As a confession of our faith, testimony to the world,and instruction to all true believers, the elders of this church have determined to record here our heartfelt and Biblically based conviction that the Lord has appointed to parents the responsibility and final authority to secure, guide and control the education of their children, that they might be trained regarding this world and in all areas of life
to think God's thoughts after Him and walk in all His ways.

Man was created, as God's likeness and for God's
glory, to study, subdue and develop the world in which God placed him (Gen. 1:26-28). Naturally, from the very beginning, it was a task which belonged to parents to instill this perspective in their children and help them to pursue it.

Ethical rebellion against God has resulted in a curse on mankind (Gen. 3:17-19) which is experienced not only spiritually (Rom. 8:5-8; Eph. 2:1-4) but also intellectually (Rom. 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph.4:17-18), and which introduces an unavoidable antithesis between those antagonistic to God and those who belong to the promised Savior (Gen. 3:15).

The task of pursuing proper knowledge of the world and developing a God-glorifying culture therein thus encounters tremendous obstacles and distortions,making it imperative that parents educate their children within the perspective and power of God's revelation and grace. The redemption which Christ has secured for us not only spiritually saves us from the wrath to come, but also delivers us from intellectual
futility and foolish reasoning in our methods and
learning about the world in which we presently live.

Genuine knowledge of any subject whatsoever begins with reverence and submission to God (Prov. 1:7),particularly the fundamentals and philosophy which adhere to the Lord Jesus Christ rather than the fallen world or human traditions (Col. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:20). It is the word of God which sets apart His people in the truth (John 17:17). Thus neutrality in education is not only impossible (Matt. 12:30), but immoral (Jas.4:4). Accordingly, the aim of Christian parents must
be to encourage their children to "bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5), "in whom are deposited all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:3). Only if they are first disciples of Christ will they know the truth and enjoy real freedom (John 8:31-32).

Therefore, from the very beginning of history, then especially with the introduction of man's rebellion against God, and as well in light of the fundamental nature of any genuine knowledge, it is a parental duty to train and educate their children, regardless of the subject matter, in the nurture of the Lord and the light of His revelation (Eph. 6:4; Prov. 5:1-2; Ps.36:9; 119:105, 130).

The responsibility rehearsed here has been part of the confession of faith of God's people from the earliest days, indeed a primary application of the first and great commandment (Deut. 6:4-5; cf. Matt. 22:37-38).It constitutes a central element in what it means for those who are saved to keep covenant with God: "And these words which I command you this day shall be upon
your heart, and you shall teach them diligently unto your children" - constantly and consistently, in every time and place, covering all the spheres of human thought, activity and living (Deut. 6:6-9). Note is taken that this responsibility has been assigned directly by God to parents, rather than any other institution of society.

Regardless, then, of whatever children learn - from math and science to history, social studies,
literature and the arts - parents have a God-given duty to see to it that their children learn it, as much as is possible (given the resources and opportunities available to their parents), with the perspective and application of the Christian worldview as derived from God's revelation. It is and shall be the policy of this church by instruction, preaching and pastoral care to inculcate this educational
responsibility in our parents, directing and helping them to walk in God's gracious covenant as faithful disciples of Christ.

But I also find that many non-homeschoolers look at homeschoolers with A LOT of preconceived notions, and so they sometimes look to be offended by homeschoolers.

83% of Christians entering secular universities reject their Christian faith by graduation. Thats why. I'll find the exact stats if you would like. Ever been in a residence hall? You honestly want to pay to send your kids there? If so... you're nuts.

By the way, dont throw my UT education back in my lap... this was before we had kids and even considered homeschooling. I wasnt even saved when I enrolled there. I was saved during my time in Knoxville. Kids came during my studies, and homeschooling came afterwards.

But unfortunately most Christians today consider good parenting to mean that by 18 their kid isnt in jail, pregnant or dead.

And no one can successfully argue against homeschooling...

But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.

I grew up with a man of God (pastor) who taught, "Give them as much time as God has given you."
.....How long has it taken God to get you where you are?
.....Is He finished with you yet?
.....Have you reached perfection in understanding all Scripture?

Lovingly, I say that sometimes you come off like you have indeed reached that pinnacle but maybe this is just me and it's four in the morning and I'm more bolder than usual because I can't sleep!!

Believe it or not, I love the Lord too! I also believe that so does the majority on this forum. [edit: but of course, I'm probably wrong... as usual!!]

Love in Christ and God bless you, Krispy

Lovingly, I say that sometimes you come off like you have indeed reached that pinnacle but maybe this is just me and it's four in the morning and I'm more bolder than usual because I can't sleep!!

Lisa... I'm not sure why, but it seems you and I have been sparring a lot lately. I dont mean to do that. I think sometimes it's my own fault because a lot of times I start off addressing someone specifically (in this case, you)... and then end up making general statements not aimed at anyone in particular... just general observations.

The problem is, because I started off addressing someone specifically, that someone takes [b]everything[/b] I wrote as being pointed at them.

In my last post this is exactly what happened. About half way thru my post I ceased talking directly to you, and began making general observations and comments.

In NO WAY did I mean to say that you, Lisa, ignore scripture and base your beliefs on opinions, etc. And I apologize for not being more clear.

I know you're serious about the Lord. I dont know you personally (tho apparently we were neighbors at one point!), but I dont get the impression from you that you consider good parenting to be getting your kids to age 18 alive.

But I do know and have observed many in the church who DO in fact act that way. They put on a good show at church, but they are more concerned about the new Indiana Jones movie than they are about helping smuggle Bibles into Burma. Their kids act no different than the world... but hey, at least they arent in jail! (just means they've never been caught)

So yea, I started out talking to you, but I transitioned from you to making general statements... and from your perspective I can see how you would take my comments as being "pompous". However, if you remove yourself from what I said, and take it as it was intended... I dont think they are that pompous at all.

If Ravenhill said it... we would call him "brilliant". If Krispy says it... it's "pompous".

After I'm dead and gone perhaps someone will consider me "brilliant"! lol... :-P

Anyway, Lisa, I want to say that I have a very high regard and respect for you and what you bring to this forum. We dont always agree, but thats ok.

BTW... a quick search of all of the apologies I've had to make to folks on this forum should put to rest any impressions you may have that I consider myself to be some sort of spiritual giant. No, where ever people are on this forum in their walk with the Lord... I'm quite certain they are probably farther along than I am.

Krispy

But surprisingly on this forum there are many people who want to ignore clear teachings in scripture and embrace opinions of man. It's very indicative of the sad shape our churches are in today.

This is something I said... I wont apologize for it. All I can do is point to the threads about Todd Bentley as proof. I was watching a video of this guy just about an hour ago, and how anyone can say this is a move of God... I just dont understand.

But there are those on this forum who have tried to defend it. The only way you can defend it is to completely ignore scripure.

So no... what I said is true, and it's not judgemental.

(Lets not turn this into another Todd Bentley thread!)

Krispy

Here's the difference that I think you're missing, Chrrrriiiissssssssssssssssss.... lol

The difference between going into the highways and byways to compel them to come in... and sending your child into the public school system is this: who's effecting who?

What is the purpose of school? To train children. To teach them how to think. To teach them how to view the world.

Now, obviously the public school system is not interested one bit in teaching children to view the world from a Biblical godly perspective. They are not interested in teaching them how to think from a Biblical position.

The school is there to [b]train[/b] children. A child, and even most teenagers, are not savvy enough to turn the table on the teachers and train the teachers. No, it's the other way around.

In my line of work I use my contacts with others as a way of witnessing Christ thru how I conduct my business, how I talk, how I act, etc. No one is trying to train me or teach me 8 hours a day.

Thats the difference. Scripture is quite clear, especially in Psalm 1, and in other parts, that we are not to receive our training and teaching at the feet of the world... but rather by the Holy Spirit, scripture, the church... and from godly parents.

Not one time does scripture ever recommend receiving our training at the feet of the ungodly. But there are plenty of warnings not to.

So... when you, as an adult, go into a mission field (whatever that may be) you go there to make an impact. You're not going there to sit at the feet of the world and soak in it's wisdom so-called.

Why would we expect children to be able to do exactly the opposite?

The difference is your purpose is to train the ungodly, or teach them, or persuade them. Public schools exist for the soul purpose of training, teaching and persuading young minds. And they are very effective at it.

You go to train... children go to be trained.

And be trained they will be.

Krispy

Taken From: Extreme Devotion

In restricted countries, Christian children often suffer alongside their parents. When fathers and mothers are arrested because of their church activities, the children are often left as orphans. If they are lucky, their family members or friends can care for them. However, at worst, they are sent to orphanages or state run institutions. No more bedtime Bible stories and no more family prayers before meals.

However, the letters from the children to their imprisoned parents display tremendous courage and tenacity during the difficult times of separation. Their words convey hope of a reunion.

“God bless you dear Mommy. Don’t be troubled by our temporary separation—it won’t last forever. Our joy will return soon—let that thought encourage you. Mommy, I can’t imagine the feast we will have when you return. I have been keeping up with my schoolwork. Now it is night—tomorrow will be another day. Day after day it drags on, but I know we will be together soon. I embrace you. Your loving daughter.”

“Dear Mom, when you come home, I will not think about the loneliness and pain anymore. I beg you not to cry, Mommy. I love you. I wrote a little poem for you:

You have a heart of gold,
You are young at heart, not old.
The Lord observes you from on high,
We’ll be together soon, you and I.”

Children are often the last ones considered when it comes to the effects of persecution. For every imprisoned parent, there is a child left behind. However, as Jesus pointed out on numerous occasions, a child’s faith is significant. If a child can demonstrate incredible courage amid intense circumstances, then what is our excuse? Instead of growing resentful toward the circumstances that are beyond their control, the children of persecuted Christians are growing in grace. Can we say the same about our lives? As adults, we risk focusing too much on the blows and beatings life brings. We could benefit from modeling the resilient faith of children. In what ways do you need to grow in childlike faith? Begin today by remembering the children.

A school, however, is meant to teach educate children in certain subjects.

Not anymore, brother. Those days are long gone. Thats the whole problem with government schools... their agenda. You dont have to look to far to uncover the agenda of the government schools. You can start with the NEA's website... they arent afraid to spell it out for you.

They are no longer about teaching the "3 R's"... they are about training children to think from a worldy ungodly point of view.

How long has it been since you have had any dealings with the public schools?

Krispy

Are there any on S.I. who'd answer this:

I was wondering if you might furnish me with a Biblical defense of either the neutrality,indifference,command,permission/allowance or otherwise respecting God's will for the christian to send their children to be educated by state/government-run institutions where the teachers and fellow students are for the most part unbelievers,God-haters,anti-Christ and immoral, where hypocrisy abounds and the religion of secular humanism promoted.

PS APOLOGIA - The Greek word meaning "a spoken or written defense." It appears eight times in the New Testament, in the context of people defending their faith or actions by reason and logic.
From Webster's Dictionary: apologia \\ap-uh-LOH-jee-uh;-juh\\, noun:
A formal defense or justification, especially of one's opinions, position, or actions.
From Websters Dictionary (1828 edition) Apologetic
Defending by words or arguments; excusing; said or written in defense, or by way of apology; as an apologetic essay.
"But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you..." 1 Peter 3:15

I ask that before you do answer that you'd please read the question very carefully and answer apologetically as I've asked. Please only do so if you are ABLE. And please do not go off on tangents(syn. digression).

If God has a command or Word for us from His Mind and Spirit I believe most here on S.I. would care to know. As ultimately such is all that really matters. Thanks

They are no longer about teaching the "3 R's"... they are about training children to think from a worldy ungodly point of view.

Public schools are no longer about teaching kids what they need to know to be successful people; public schools are about teaching kids what they need to know to be a certain kind of successful people, and I'm pretty sure it's not a kind that God admires.

Sure, there are some public schools that aren't that way, but you'd be hard pressed to find one.

The Children of Ceasar...

Yes, this is exactly what I have been trying to say!! Excellent video...

Krispy

Anybody watching the national spelling bee? I just watched the homeschooler from California...she's still going. :-D

Hey... I listened to this entire sermon. Y'all need to listen to this. It's good stuff.

Here's the link:

http://www.voddiebaucham.org/vbm/Podcast/Entries/2007/1/17_The_Centrality_of_the_Home.html

Krispy

The Myth of Neutrality

What has been the most successful lie in the history of Christianity? There can be no doubt: the myth of neutrality. This myth has kept Christians for two thousand years from developing explicitly and exclusively Biblical solutions to their problems. They have returned, generation after generation, to Greek, Roman, and modern philosophy and institutions, on the assumption that God and Satan, good and evil, Christians and non-Christians share certain fundamental beliefs, or at least share certain views of the world around them. But they don't. Every fact is an interpreted fact. Satan interprets the world in his way, while God interprets it in another. Satan sees this world as rightfully his, not God's; God sees it as rightfully his, not Satan's. There can be no reconciliation between these two views. All attempts at reconciling them necessarily lead to Satan's view: that God has no right to tell us how to interpret His world.

There is no neutrality. There may be indifference. A person may not care which athletic team wins a game, but he cannot be neutral about whose creation has made possible the game. Neutrality is the devil's most successful myth. He used it on Eve. He persuaded her to become a neutral experimenter. She could test God's word, to see whether or not she would die on the day she ate the fruit. "Just a neutral scientific experiment," he implied. "What have you got to lose?" The answer: everything.

The modern institution that is most self-consciously built in terms of the myth of neutrality is the "public" school, meaning the government school, meaning the taxpayer-financed school. Its legal foundation is the myth of neutrality. No religious or sectarian views are supposed to be taught in a public school, because people of many different religious beliefs are required by law to support it financially. Expenditures of tax money are supposed to be neutral, non-religious expenditures.

All this talk of neutral education is sheer nonsense. You cannot teach without ultimate concepts of true and false. Label one idea false-the evolution of the universe out of random matter that exploded with a big bang 15 billion years ago-and you have attacked some taxpayer's deeply held religious convictions. Label another idea true-the evolution of mankind from lower animals, for example-and you have attacked a different taxpayer's deeply held religious view. You are using his money to indoctrinate his children with ideas that he despises. Without exception, the major victims today are conservative Christians whose children are under deliberate religious and intellectual attack by taxpayer-financed schools.

Everything on earth is a battle between the principles of the Bible and anti-Biblical principles. A war is in progress. But Christians have refused to face this' fact for well over a century in the field of education. It would involve giving up "free" humanist slop in the trough.

Nowhere is this war more clearly in progress than in the battle for the minds of men. And the major battlefield is the field of taxpayer-financed education. Men are battling for the loyalty and obedience of the next generation. And for a hundred years, Christians have been losing the battle. Why? Because they have decided to grant to their rivals the fundamental point: the myth of neutrality. They have accepted as morally valid-indeed, morally preferable-the tax-supported compulsory school. Since the 1840's in the United States, this institution has been the targeted prize of God-hating, humanist kidnappers, beginning with Massachusetts' Horace Mann, who used the God-hating, man-deifying, evil school system of apostate Prussia as his model for the public schools.

What is a school system that teaches mankind's evolution out of meaningless slime, if not whoredom? What is a school system that makes it illegal to teach God's law as the only valid moral standard for mankind, if not whoredom? What is a school system that the U.S. Supreme Court says is not even allowed to post the Ten Commandments on a wall in the classroom, if not whoredom? What is a school system that teaches that the Bible is not a God-inspired book, but at best "literature"-no better than Shakespeare's plays, Hemingway's novels, or for that matter, the Marquis de Sade's novels? Everything is relative, after all, says the myth of neutrality.

Christian parents may protest, our children do not necessarily believe everything their public school teachers tell them for twelve years (or sixteen, or twenty), eight hours a day, five days a week, eight months a year, plus homework. No, our children will believe what we tell them (after they spend three hours a day watching television), and what they learn in church on Sunday. Are we to believe that moral atmosphere and moral temptations count for nothing? Of course they count. Then how can any Christian believe that the public school environment counts for nothing?

Christians who would not tolerate for a moment the idea of state-supported compulsory churches are strong supporters of state-supported compulsory education. They are intellectually schizophrenic.

Christians want their education, but they want it cheap. So it has cost them almost everything, just as it cost Eve.

by G. North

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hello...

Does anyone have a curriculum that they would recommend for homeschooling? I've been speaking to my in-laws about this, and one has actually decided to homeschool his children next year. Ironically, he is a public high school AP teacher (Advanced Placement Trig and Calculus). He asked about which curriculum is most recommended. Any ideas?

I believe that Krispy stated somewhere that he used more than one. Which ones do you use -- and which do you find to be the most beneficial?

Thanks for the help!

:-)

Depending on where your in-law is located, he might want to check out homeschool curriculum fairs. It's a great way to look over different curriculum and talk to people there. These fairs usually take place in the spring...but there are some in June also I think. [url=http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/calendar/events.htm]Here is a link that might be helpful in that direction.[/url]

[url=http://www.bjupress.com/distance_learning/bjhomesat/support.html]BJU Homesat[/url] is an excellent program if the parents wants to use video classes. My younger sister did the biology course this past school year and loved it. BJU is probably the most similar to the classroom experience since with some of the live classes there is student involvement with the teachers (calling, etc). Some Christian schools or private schools use BJU's homesat program.

There's a ton of curriculim out there and a lot depends upon the teaching methods that the parents prefer. Some parents stick to one curriculim base like Abeka, while others use this and that, and then there is also classical education like [url=http://www.triviumpursuit.com/index.php]Trivium Pursuit[/url].

So there's a few suggestions...I'm kinda surprised you haven't had more input on this subject....

------

A quote I found this morning by Andrew Murray that seems to tie in well with this thread:

"The future of the Church and world depends, to an extent we little conceive, on the education of the day. The Church may be seeking to evangelize the heathen and be giving up her own children to secular and materialistic influences. Pray for schools and colleges, and that the Church may realize and fulfill its momentous duty of caring for its children."

~Andrew Murray

Roniya is correct, get to a curriculum fair or a homeschool used book sale. Also, google homeschool curriculum.

I will warn you that because homeschooling is becomng very popular there are those who figured out that there is a lot of money to be made... we've become a "market". Not all homeschool curriculum is equal.

My wife has a very eclectic style of teaching, meaning that she draws from many different curriculums. Some BJU stuff, some Abecca (not sure I spelled that right!), etc.

Some people are able to do it like my wife does, but some people wont be able to, and need curriculum thats already laid out for them.

Point is tho, there is no lack of homeschool curriculum being offered out there, so do some googling and I'm sure it wont be long and you'll be suffering from information overload.

Krispy

Since the last day of public school is tomorrow for my kids I usually go to the library to get them caught up in any areas where they are lagging behind. One of my daughters needs help in geography so if anyone knows of any good websights please let me know.

I'm thinking about homeschooling them at night after they get home from school each day and even more on the weekend. Nothing heavy but maybe just sit at the table and do their homework with them. That way I can get involved in what they are learning.

I used Abeka when I homeschooled my kids and they did really well and got them off to a good start in public school. I'm glad that I atleast was able to teach them how to read---that was very rewarding.

Getting involved with your kids in every area of their life is important along with homeschooling.

I agree with you about being involved in the lives of your kids. I wonder tho if "homeschooling" them at night and on the weekends after all that time in the public school all week isnt going to burn them out. They need to be kids.

My kids usually get started on their school work about 8 in the morning and are finished by around 1pm. Depending on the day and the schedule sometimes they dont get to their school work until after lunch... but once they are done... they are running out the back door to go play. Our two older boys have odd jobs they do for some of our neighbors, etc.

Kids need to be kids. As stated before, while we consider education to be one of the highest priorities... raising godly men is more important.

Just wondering... is their a reason you're not homeschooling now?

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I agree with you about being involved in the lives of your kids. I wonder tho if "homeschooling" them at night and on the weekends after all that time in the public school all week isnt going to burn them out. They need to be kids.

My kids usually get started on their school work about 8 in the morning and are finished by around 1pm. Depending on the day and the schedule sometimes they dont get to their school work until after lunch... but once they are done... they are running out the back door to go play. Our two older boys have odd jobs they do for some of our neighbors, etc.

Kids need to be kids. As stated before, while we consider education to be one of the highest priorities... raising godly men is more important.

Just wondering... is their a reason you're not homeschooling now?

Krispy

Oh I agree I just like to get involved with helping them with their homework. Especially when it comes to History and Science because the public school system does such a poor job in those areas. We do alot of fun stuff too like crafts. All of my girls are learning how to knit, crochet and quilt. Right now they are making some things for the pregnancy center. Girls need to be taught how to do what girls do and that is to be keepers of the home.

I don't homeschool anymore because my husband prefers that I work and that means they have to attend public school. He would rather have me save for them to go to college but I'm sure we will still have to take out a loan in order to do that. He will ultimately leave the decision up to them but I am trying to teach the girls God's way and that is to be a keeper of the home and raise their children. The souls of your children are so much more important than money but if you have to put them in a public school like I do than God is sufficient and I believe He can keep them from falling.

We pray alot together and try to have devotions every night. My husbands said that if things get unbearable in the public school system than we will bring them home.

JRuth wrote:
I am home schooled, and would want it no other way. Its really great to be able to have your Mom as your teacher. I think there are some advantages in being home schooled also... I learned to read before I was 4, and I know that I would have a problem going to any type of school, because I do best when there is nooooo talking, and some music on in the background (which you can't do in a school) :-D Just to name a couple!!!

Well, thats my idea at least!!! 8-)

Amen. It can be a wonderful learning environment. Praise God, that your parents were able to homeschool you. :-) Parents are the experts when it comes to knowing how their own children learn best. It's the best way to go.