A New Testament Answer to not having Tatoos!

I completly disagree with not having Tatoos, the reason it came up is that me and a friend were discussing Todd Bentley and as most people consider teh levitical laws as the old covenant and now that the new covenant is in.
So both me and him were trying to find anything from the new testament that specifically deals with Tatoos to refute the idea!

I do not want basic things like

1Co 6:19 - Show Context
Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?

I just want something to refute this idea from the new testament as it is wrong!

Tatoos? Tatoos?

All the things that are taking place in this world right now, and you major on tatoos?

Oh well, any takers?

I have personal convictions that having a tattoo is wrong. But I wouldn't label everyone that has a tattoo a wicked person. I think it's based on personal convictions (Romans 14). It's a disputable matter.

In response to the verse you used, Paul is talking about sexual immorality. His purpose in saying the body is a temple of the Spirit is to say we must not give our bodies over to sexual sin but remember that our bodies are members with Christ.

Many who are in disagreement with tattoos use the verse in Leviticus where it says not to put any markings or tattoos on your body. However, the verse after also says we are not to shave the sides of our head. Does that mean I can't get skin fades? I think alot of it has to do with context, similar to the issue of head coverings in Corinth.

I would agree with Mattie. I would not get any more tatoos (I received 5 prior to salvation) but I wouldn't drill anyone and say they are fallen from grace or anything like that. I hope they do recognize that we most likely will not have any tats on the new earth though

I completly disagree with not having Tatoos, the reason it came up is that me and a friend were discussing Todd Bentley and as most people consider teh levitical laws as the old covenant and now that the new covenant is in.
So both me and him were trying to find anything from the new testament that specifically deals with Tatoos to refute the idea!

Todd Bentley, because of so many so called miracles is going to give a 'green light' to a lot of very questionable and even demonic practices to people searching for it. The bottom line is, "Why would a person want to cover their body with tattoos that have a demonic feel to them?" We need to realize that these were pagan practices in the Old Testament and that is why the law was in place. Would you want to willingly, post salvation experience, identify yourself with the enemies of God? Todd Bentley identifies himself with what we understand to be dark and evil symbolisms.

Consider this passage from Romans 6:

[color=000066]I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye presented your members [as] servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity, even so now present your members [as] servants to righteousness unto sanctification.

For when ye were servants of sin, ye were free in regard of righteousness. [u]What fruit then had ye at that time in the things whereof ye are now ashamed?[/u] For the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto sanctification, and the end eternal life. [/color]

Typically when folk are truly born again they desire to [i]distance themselves[/i] from anything that even resembles this world. Paul says here in Romans, that we are now [u]ashamed[/u] of what we did while in sin. But this is not the case with many. They seek to legitimize their old sinful practices by somehow sanctifying them with a "Jesus" label. I used to be a _________, but now I am a Christian __________. And typically that _________ is the idol in their life that God has been trying to see them throw down the altar of for years (See Judges 2).

I do not want to be identified in any way, shape or form with the enemies of God. I want to distance myself from their practices. I want to forget those things that are behind- not sanitize them with some rhetoric and then bring them into my present life. What ever happened to dying to the Old Man? What ever happened to "You are not your own- you were bought with a price?" Did God give me permission to vandalize His property?

In response to the verse you used, Paul is talking about sexual immorality. His purpose in saying the body is a temple of the Spirit is to say we must not give our bodies over to sexual sin but remember that our bodies are members with Christ.

Lots of youth are in to 'cutting'. We encounter this from time to time. The reminder that your body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit deals with what Stephen Told the Jews in Acts 7. He quoted from Isaiah 66: 1, 2:

[color=000066]Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and [u]where is the place of my rest?[/u] For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: [u]but to this man will I look[/u], even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word. [/color]

Where is the place of God's REST? Where can He abide without the stench of sin and compromise? Where can He go and not find the idols and altars to the gods of this world? Where can He go and not be vexed from day to day with reminders of former lovers? Can God rest in [u]me[/u]? Is He provoked to jealousy because my heart is still turned to the former things? Can He rest in me? I believe we need to live our lives in such a way that God is not provoked by the things I entertain or defend. I don't want to remind God of my sinful past. I'm not proud of it. What good is it to be broken over sin at the altar and then turn and embrace it there after?

I think 2 Cor. 6 : 14-16 does apply in this case:
(if you keep in mind that 'many' of the artist are practicing Satanist, who pray over their needles before the cutting.
& that tattooing is vastly associated with the occult;
I know there are exceptions but we would be willingly ignorant to ignore the history behind such practices.
(Just key in the word 'Tattoo' in Wikipedia)

14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I won't post the link, but there is a pdf online that details a few of Bentley's tattoo's & it is rather disturbing

This is what disturbed me is that Bentley as a person if he becomes say a youth role model!
He as a christian, once saved had tattoos! Which is completly wrong.
I personally hate to bring up the question.

We have a former tatootist who gave up tatooing because he came to Jesus! He is against people from having tattoos and so am I.

I would have to agree with RobertWurtz and Ravenmolehill. Why embroil yourself in the implications and stereotypes that tattoos bring along? Why not instead endeavor to lead a clean, pure, unblemished life (if inward, so also shall it be outward) before the scrutinizing eyes of the god-haters around you?

Tattoos are not symbols of humility; believers should be growing in humility and Christ-likeness. Those who are Christ's no longer belong to themselves, but have been bought with the invaluable price of God's own blood. Therefore, it is not our decision to get a tattoo; it is God's, and those who intimately know God already know His answer to this and to other questions pertaining to the adornment of flesh and the conforming to the things of the world.

As for me, my God forbids me to treat my body as such, as a canvass for unregenerate man's artwork (and even in my unsaved state, I found the idea quite repulsive and "sleazy"); God compels His adopted sons and daughters to walk even as His Son did, blameless, without spot or blemish (for we walk and have our being in Christ our life, who is all of this), a pure testimony to all who see us, denying the chance for those who are without to find fault in our appearance, actions, demeanor and speech.

I do think it's funny how we so quickly judge the empirical. LOOK he has Tatoos...that must be an unregenerate man's artwork! We are a funny creature (I judge too I always assume a guy full of tatoos wants to talk about them).
I would never encourage a brother or sister to be tatooed though. I think we could be better stewards with our time and money. Also a tatoo (although they can be very beautiful) is transient...so why bother.
But we need to stop screechin on an issue like this and save our energies to battle for the Trinity or Salvation by grace (the last sentence was inspired by a conversation with a United Pentacostal that told me I could lose my salvation if I did not remove my tatoos...goofy legalistic conversations...from someone who does not even believe in our Triune LORD)

I do think it's funny how we so quickly judge the empirical. LOOK he has Tatoos...that must be an unregenerate man's artwork! We are a funny creature (I judge too I always assume a guy full of tatoos wants to talk about them).

But we need to stop screechin on an issue like this

Brother Paul

But we need to stop screechin on an issue like this and save our energies to battle for the Trinity or Salvation by grace (the last sentence was inspired by a conversation with a United Pentacostal that told me I could lose my salvation if I did not remove my tatoos...goofy legalistic conversations...from someone who does not even believe in our Triune LORD)

If all we had to concern ourselves with are the tattoos that would be one thing, but these are merely additional symptoms to a much more serious problem.

When a person is baptized in water one of the things they are doing is [i]identifying[/i] with Jesus Christ. We are declaring our death to the world and the former life through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are making a statement. From that point on we are to seek to identify oursleves as disciples of Christ.

To this question do I pose; can anyone imagine Jesus in a tattoo parlor getting a tattoo? What about Paul the Apostle? Paul's markings were the scars of years of abuse at the hands of sinners. Moreover, there is an undercurrent of evil that I see in Todd Bentley's tattoos. I have seen this evil before in many artists. This artword has a darkness about it- even though they claim to be Christians. They look and come off as 'evil' even to a sinner. Even though some are supposed to be 'Christian' or 'biblical', they still have a darkness about them. Same with his demonic looking rings he wears.

The issue at hand is more than a doctrinal stance on essential issues. We are talking about a whole new level of deception. People are starting to think that it is acceptable to [i]mix[/i] light and darkness in their expression of faith. This is what Israel did. This is what provoked God to jealousy so often. Can we partake of the table of demons and the table of the Lord?

Truly it is a sign of the times that we are even having these discussions. Our forefathers and mothers would have rolled in their graves at some of the stuff that passes off as 'Christian' or 'Christainity' today. Personally, I refuse to stand for it! Why? Because souls are at stake. What if some of the people in Hell such as the rich man could come back and relive their lives? Do we suppose he would trifle with such madness? Would he seek to mix Satan and Christ? I dare say he would run as far from hell as he could and all that reminded him of it.

Where does this lust for sin and darkness originate? From whence cometh this mixture? From where is this fascination with darkness and evil? Can a Christian have an appetite for these types of evil things? What if he/she is feeding themselves darkness- can they preach light? I have never seen a rebellious sinner passing out tracts at a rock concert; why? They know what team they are on. Why is it that some people seek to adorn themselves as the enemy? i would not even want to be confused with someone that was in rebellion.

I've known men who get tattoos and piercings and use it as a means to become friends with those in that type of crowd. and people repent and become Christians. how do you explain that?

Wisdom is justified by her children.

Alright cool, Thanks RobertW

I just always seem to get thrown off when things like tatoos are mentioned. Look at Todd Bently...listen to Todd....Tatoos become the least of our worries, he is leading sheep to slaughter not to the one who was slaughtered for His sheep (Also I am sure people have been saved through his ministry and that saved people go to his church. Just b/c God saves people despite of the building they enter does not mean we applaud or defend a poor or false teacher...I'm sure a few folks got saved by Pelagius but dude was off). So hope you see my angle and know that I do see yours (also I don't know what kind of tatoos he has so my judgement/discernment in regard to his tatoos would not be a valid one; i was just making a generalized statement in my prior post ) :-D Good Day

[b][size=x-large][color=00CCCC]HAPPY FATHER'S DAY[/color][/size][/b]

[b][color=000099]http://www.tiffany.com/[/color][/b]

What comes in a little blue box wrapped with a white ribbon? Are they beautiful blue and sterling silver cuff lings, or is it a clip with the name Dad on it with a unique signature? Many of the different gifts that are given to a father on this day, from his children and loved one, to describe how, special and loved he is.

Dad walks into the room and is immediately embraced by tender hands and strong grips, he can hardly contain his emotions, he feels the love in the atmosphere and he immediately knows, that this is his day, and that it’s all about him.

After dinner he sits on his chair, to reflect on the meaning of Father’s Day, he is filled with so much compassion, as he reminisces, and begins to question himself, “Why should I be called dad or why should I be called father for that matter”?

Without realizing it, there was someone sitting right next to him, with a still small voice, and the voice begins to speak as the dad listens and sobs, his children rise up and hand him a tissue, as the father continues to listen to that small voice speak and that says;

FATHER

Into your hands have I commanded my Spirit, not my will but your will be done, though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for your rod and your staff they comfort me. When I was yet in my mother womb, you knew me and you knew me by name and what I would become in your hands.

Dad immediately opened his eyes and knew in his spirit, who the voice was that was speaking to him that still small voice. His heart was filled with so much happiness, and re-assurance that he was walking in the perfect will, of his father and there was no turning back.

As he looked at his children, with a straight posture he began to teach them of the many fathers in the world beginning with Abraham Lincoln and he quoted this verse;

The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God cannot be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party—and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect his purpose. I am almost ready to say this is probably true—that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere quiet power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.

The children looked perplexed as too what all of this meant, and then they smiled and knew what dad meant. That they should not listen with there natural ears but with there spirit and Spiritual understanding.

Dad once again was receiving so much love and affection that his heart was overwelmed at the mere fact that his children knew his voice.

The still small voice spoke once again, and said in you my son I am well pleased, listen to his voice for this is my Son.

Just my two cents...

Romans 14 would seem to apply here. However, with that said, I personally find it worldly, and most tattoo's seem connected to worldly themes.

I find it interesting the Oneness person that somebody encountered here saying that they could not be saved until they had their tattoo's removed. Besides betraying every notion of God's grace in that saying, the idea of getting a tattoo removed is just as worldly as getting one. You cannot get a tattoo removed without going through some lengthy surgery to do such, and even then, there is no guarantee that you will be able to fully remove it. Such will involve defacing the body all over again... one just looks much more outwardly respectable. So, how is removing one any different than getting one?

I know one brother who was saved after he had some profanity tattoo'd on his knuckles. He said he debated a long time about getting it removed. Then he decided not to, saying that those markings reminded him of where he had come from. He never flaunted them, and indeed, was ashamed of them. But, he was much more proud of the God who had brought him out of the miry pit and set his feet upon a rock. He thought of such as his memorial stones.

While I am against tatoos, would never endorse a Christian getting one, and have a "no tattoos after salvation" policy concerning my ministry team - I find the present, pseudo-discernment concerning Bentley's "skin art" to be disturbing and unbiblical. If you are going to discredit him by saying he teaches unbiblical heresy than do so, and show it through scripture. But to so childishly (and yes I'll say it again CHILDISHLY) pick on his tattoo's is nauseatingly un-christ like.

I have recently been to a website which had a "SHOCKING EXPOSE" (sarcasm in my voice) on Todd Bentley's "evil tattoos". Among the rantings were accusations that his Jesus tatoo had a (GASP) hidden monkey in the beard! Good Gracious! A HIDDEN MONKEY? Also, when Todd Bentley raises his arm upward, JESUS' FACE IS TURNED UPSIDE DOWN! This individual was convinced that this was done to desecrate and mock the person of Jesus Christ. I simply sighed and burned inwardly that this nonsense was actually taking up internet space. Next was the shocking "Medussa" tatoo on his leg. Then again maybe it was a male with large female breasts with pierced nipples that was an obvious nod to homosexuality. Then again maybe it was this . . .

Those were the various opinion given for this tattoo. The disturbing part is that it's relatively well known what the image is and it is none of the above. But did people take time to do the research? No! They just "DISCERNED" that these tattoos had a "dark feeling" to them. Well I think that these criticisms have a "dark and demonic" feeling to them. So whoes to say they're right and I'm wrong. We are both professed belivers, and I am sure we can both produce ample fruit and evidence to substantiate our claim. Yet we both "had a feeling". Last time I checked we walk by faith and not by sight (meaning the senses). Also last time I checked Jesus judged not by what he saw or heard (Isa 11) but with righteous judgments. Unless we can clearly substantiate any of these claims via scripture, than it would be best if we stilled our tongues and entreated our lips to cease their tireless "flapping".

This is not directed at anyone in particular on this forum, so please don't be offended. I'm simply venting my frustrations at the fruitless and unscriptural ways in which we judge one another.

Tatoos are not a disqualifier for ministry. Do I like them, personally no! I think they are gaudy and bear to close a resemblance to the world. However, for some, that thought may not cross their minds and they may receive one completely innocently. I have had individuals on my leadership team who, as far as their Christ-likness goes, are relatively imcomparable. I'm talking some of the most Godly, clean living, soul winning, praying(est) people you will ever meet - some of these have approached me asking if I would have a problem with them getting a tatoo. In their minds it was innocent and they simply wanted to get something scriptural tattooed on them. Of course I discouraged them from this and told them that in our ministry it would not be acceptable. My point though, is that their hearts were pure and right. Had they not consulted me they would have gotten a tattoo and done so as a pure child of God. That would not have blemished them in God's sight one iota. So it is possible to do things in ignorance, or in innocence that others view as vile and wicked. (OF COURSE I'm not speaking of sin - but questionable practices like tattoos...)

Anyways, that's just my two cent. God bless you all dear brothers and sister.

May Jesus Christ receive the full reward of his sufferings of the cross!

-Jeff

I find the present, pseudo-discernment concerning Bentley's "skin art" to be disturbing and unbiblical. If you are going to discredit him by saying he teaches unbiblical heresy than do so, and show it through scripture. But to so childishly (and yes I'll say it again CHILDISHLY) pick on his tattoo's is nauseatingly un-christ like.

If I, as a so-called Christian, tattoo a demon on my body and it does not raise a red flag in your mind there is something seriously wrong with your discernment. If I show you who I am and you still won't believe me, what then? If the man wore horns out onto the platform and someone shouted; "That is the devil!", would you call that psuedo discernment?

Todd Bentley has already given enough heresy to the world. His blasphemous antics are all over the web.

I am not in the least moved by your shouting or accusations. I happen to be in some serious situations among my youth and youth pastors I minister to and among that don't know who to believe about Todd Bentley. The catch phrase is, "This is not Christianity as usual..." and people, coming from Todd Bentley's camp are being telling crowds, "to take the filters off" and do whatever the Holy Spirit tells you to do. Bentley, of course, understands this to mean leg dropping pastors and kicking worshippers in the face.

I will say it again, because the prime subject here is tattoos and their connection with Todd Bentley. He was wearing a shirt last week that read "Jesus loves me [i]and[/i] my tattoos." (My emphasis) Does Jesus really love his demonic overtoned tattoos? I trow not.

I've known men who get tattoos and piercings and use it as a means to become friends with those in that type of crowd. and people repent and become Christians. how do you explain that?

I do not believe we have to join the enemy to win them to Christ. I do not have to become a Goth to reach a Goth or a Stripper to reach a Stripper.

The truth is, God cannot please sinners. If a person comes to Christ as led by a person that tried to befriend them through total identification with them, then they came to Christ [i]not because of[/i], but [u]in spite of[/u] the changes. I have heard this excuse used for everything from rap and rock to boombox low rider ministries. "I can reach them if I go into the bars or the mirey places" it is all compromise. In almost every case the people that started back down the old path ended up backsliding.

Someone help me understand why there is such an outcry and defense for worldliness and compromise here on this repentance and revival site? Does none now live that even remember what holiness and righteousness and saparation means? If Finney were to weigh in on this thread what would he say? What about Edwards or Wesley? These were men that would have shunned women wearing make-up. In fact, just 70 years ago in our circles women could not wear make-up as it was esteemed to be worldly.

Look at where we are today and ask yourself where it will all end? When a man can dress like a devil, exhibit an obviously violent means of 'imparting' some something that causes people to writhe like snakes or cluck like chickens, and yet it is psuedo discernment to cry foul? Is violence a fruit of the Spirit? (Gentleness)

Tatoos are not a disqualifier for ministry. Do I like them, personally no! I think they are gaudy and bear to close a resemblance to the world. However, for some, that thought may not cross their minds and they may receive one completely innocently. I have had individuals on my leadership team who, as far as their Christ-likness goes, are relatively imcomparable. I'm talking some of the most Godly, clean living, soul winning, praying(est) people you will ever meet - some of these have approached me asking if I would have a problem with them getting a tatoo. In their minds it was innocent and they simply wanted to get something scriptural tattooed on them. Of course I discouraged them from this and told them that in our ministry it would not be acceptable. My point though, is that their hearts were pure and right. Had they not consulted me they would have gotten a tattoo and done so as a pure child of God.

This is not at all what we are talking about here. We are talking about the floodgates coming down into an "anything goes" form of Christianity, that I would thing, you would desire to try to prevent. I am just stunned how so many are defending these behaviors. At some point, were going to have to decide which side we are on. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Paul's: Rationalize the negative stereotype all you may, facts remain facts. Tattoos are viewed as such, and most people look upon them with disdain. I work for an employer who is unregenerate and he won't hire a person with visible tattoos.

When a person gets a tattoo they do it typically to make a [i]statement[/i]. I have a man that is an apprentice tattoo artist that works for me. I have employees with tattoos down to their hands that he put on them. Now, going back to the whole "psuedo discernment" remark.

When a person will permanently mark their body in an visable place, one has to ask about their judgment. When most people see a person with tattoos that stick out of their neck and arms they immediately wonder if they have been in prison.

Sound judgmental? No more than if you saw a mangled fender and wondered if the car had been in an accident. People typically do not mark themselves up that are thinking clearly- even if they are sinners. These are behaviors born in prisons and biker gangs such as the Hell's Angels. People typically do these things to [i]intimidate[/i] people. Todd Bentley has a long history of violence. I would say he had repented, but what are we to think when his favorite TV program is UFC?

This is the direction the nation is going. We are on the fast track now to Genesis 6 when the whole earth was filled with violence. The roadblocks that God installed to slow this degeneration of society have almost all been removed. We should all be vexed from day to day with these unlawful deeds.

To me a tattoo is direct rebellion against God because you are basically saying that the way your body is designed is not good enough and it needs changing.
Your body is designed for Jesus and marking it in that type of way will affect your relationship with Jesus!

Also with Tatoos they are there for life so People have to visibilly live with the foolish things that they have done in there youth or even at an older.
A tattoo does not look good on a fifty year old man or seventy!

"To me a tattoo is direct rebellion against God because you are basically saying that the way your body is designed is not good enough and it needs changing. "

Does this mean glasses are evil? They are added to your body and do change the way you look. How about clothes? We are created naked(yes sin causes the shame and necessity of covering, but we have been Justified!!! -also not condoning nudity, just using an arguement I can picture some "christian" group using ). But seriously, many people use clothes to reflect who we are internally trying to be (go to a Christian/hindu/muslim conference most will be dressed according to a "cultural standard")or use clothes to say "Man look at my suit I really know how to worship!!
I know this sounds crazy, and I DO NOT encourage tatoos (again your time and money could be used more productively. Also why bother with things that are not eternal..and I fully agree if we are going out of our way to look like a person group to reach a person group we've missed something), but your agruement, I believe, is not a valid arguement, or is at least could be easily refuted.
Also you said "to me...direct rebellion"...a tatoo is not someone have unmarried sex or someone worshiping a saint! A tat could be a sign of direct rebellion, but it does not automatically spell out direct rebellion (unless it's a knuckle tattoo that spell "rebel":-P
Thanks Brother!

Ill jump in also :-)

I feel scripture says we are bought with a price, we do not own ourself any more, and we are bought with a very valuable price, the blood of Gods only begotten son.

one drop of that ios more worth then all of the millions liters of all humans and animal blood ever walked this earth,

Now considering that God paid such a price for you...you really wanna mess that up?

an example, anyone ever sold a house? a car? or a bike?

how many returned the next day, week or whatever to repaaint that house? car, bike?

no one i hope would be that stupid. You sold the car or what ever, yet many treat God this way.

They claim the sold them self to God, but refuse to give over the ownership.

In reality such behavior is rebellion and the spirit of such acts should throughly be looked at.

We follow Jesus, imagine Jesus walking into one of those funky tattoo shops and gettin some ink done.

Dont think so.

where is the Holy awe for the severity and seriousness of being a follower of Christ? where is the trembling at Gods word that says anyone destroy Gods temple (our body) that person God will destroy.

so many dont believe what God has said, the beginning of wisdom is to fear God. many fear their fellow man more, since they would never dream of repainting their house, but goes with joy and boasting to re paint Gods house.

my thoughts

Christian

Mere outward adournment...that is all, maybe even a cover up for what is needed within.

I recieved a tattoo, on my upper back. It is the greek symbol, chi and rho. At the time I was doing God a favor by getting this tattoo, saying, "Jesus got my back, man."

It was delusion and foolishness. Let's call it what it is, simple foolishness and the foolish will not recieve instruction. Proverbs is filled with words about the foolish. It is mere foolishness and outward adournment that amounts to nothing. Let's build up our spiritual house and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ so that we may stand fast in these last days.

Others may do it, but as for me I will not...anymore.

They claim the sold them self to God, but refuse to give over the ownership.

I often say that folk hand God the title, but keep the car keys.

I want to stress the point that you can in fact tell a lot about a person by the way they present themselves. As a youth pastor I have heard things over the years from the girls like, "that's all I have to wear" and what they try to wear is as provocative as can be. Guys try to wear the muscle shirts and earrings and act like it means nothing. Try to act like I'm a pharisee for saying something about it. "Oh really? If it means nothing to you then why are you getting so angry when someone brings it up?"

Absalom is a prime example of a person caught and slain by the very symbol of their rebellion (his hair). I deal with youth all day everyday. One guy tattooed to no end and others constantly doing some new thing with their hair or a tattoo or tongue ring. Even one guy wanting dreadlocks so he can look like some of these Christian rock bands. We had a dentist come in our office once and rebuke the gal behind the counter for her tongue ring.

If I see a women wearing provocative clothing or a young man trying to show off his body I immediately make a judgment call in my mind. People are not stupid. They know what they are doing when they do it. And God is going to hold them to account. Humans sin- but devils tempt to sin. If a person (male or female) came to the revival conference in shorts and a tank top sporting around to divide the worship- what would God think?

It is important how we dress and how we look. I Timothy 2:9 tells us that our attitude in our interaction with others should be one of shamefacedness. This means to have downcast eyes. Not trying to [i]see[/i] or [i]be seen[/i].

This is not popular in an evil and adulterous generation, but God expects men and women to carry themselves in a modest way. What pride seeks to always be seen and have eyes cast on them? To wear clothing that would intentionally cause others to lust or stumble is sin. You will notice in scripture that when folk got ready to really repent they put on sackcloth and ashes. This is the opposite of getting dressed up. This is what Isaac Watts meant when he surveyed the cross and [i]poured contempt on all of his pride[/i].

i know scripture says also:

1Pe 2:16 You are not slaves; you are free. But your freedom is not an excuse to do evil. You are free to live as God's slaves.

Amen, Robert W.

Great post, Robert. You've pretty much said it all. Tattoos, studs, dredlocks, seductive clothing are basically all outward manifestations of yet a deeper, unseen and inner problem. I know that in my years as a youth pastor I dealt mostly with what I called the "identification problem". When I see a believer getting tattoos, provocative clothing, sporting new and flambouyant hair styles, piercings and studs, it can be usually be deduced there is an identification problem in the person exhibiting them. What I mean to say is that it can demonstrate a lack of self-confidence or an unassurance in their profession of abiding in Jesus. It often reveals a need for acceptance by virtue of custom-tailored "flesh enhancements".

Now, instead of homing in on the bad fruit (tattoos, tongue studs etc.), we as ministers need to understand there is a problem with the root. The point is abundantly clear that the Spirit is opposed to such fleshly hardware and selfish adornments - the main point of them being to render, as you said, a [i]statement[/i] and call attention to [i]self[/i], as though our identification in the world is based more upon our own individuality than Christ. When these two get mixed up, we see individuality begin to appear [i]in lieu of[/i] Christ, leading inexorably to the mindset of "anything goes as long as it's in Jesus' Name", which is really nothing more than the usurping spirit we see manifest at so many Christian youth festivals, rock concerts, etc.

I believe young people fall prey to this because they have yet to understand their true identification in Christ. There's no good grounding, no true foundation has yet been laid. There's an abiding confusion, an uncertainty, an unhealthy pre-occupation with [i]self[/i] under the guise of spirituality and the thrust therefore is how [i]self is viewed by others[/i]. All the adornments are thus outward, on the flesh - the hair styles, muscle shirts, piercings, tattoos. It's a perverse synthesis of self and Christ, meshed together like a mythological centaur - something that is not real. Ministers deeply in touch with the Lord can immeditately identify the symptoms and make a diagnosis (or a "judgment" as some are wont to say), but this is not a bad thing; it is given to us by God's discernment, and it is a gift.

What we do next must be steeped in God's wisdom. Only the Holy Spirit can do the corrective surgery. I very rarely will bring up or make a negative statement or even make the slightest allusion about an earring in a male or tongue stud or tattoo or dress to someone. I smile and treat them equal in the Lord, because they are. This is God's clinical case, and when the Lord deems it high time to apply the scalpel, He can remove the tumor in a moment. I've had a plethora of spirital neoplasms removed from me on God's operating table (in [i]His[/i] time), and so I know how the procedure goes. In fact, I try to keep myself in His OR, because some of those polyups have a nasty tendency to re-occur:)

But when we step out and try assume the role of master surgeon-spirit, we invariably mess it up and drive the sick patients even further from the hospital; when we let the Lord do it, a miracle takes place and God gets all the glory, as He alone should.

Brother Paul

I have gotten two tattoos since I became a Christian.

One is our wedding band, which is Jesus in Hebrew. The reason for this is because my wife and I viewed marriage as a lifetime commitment that could not be broken and was under the submission of Christ.

Also we did not want rings to throw at one another ;-).

The other tattoo(s) are two bleeding nail holes on the inside of my wrists referring to Galatians 2:20.

Now have these been beneficial to the Kingdom?

Absolutely! When I am out somewhere, people always ask about my ring, and ask what it says. Usually this opens the door to talk about the nail holes, which at times can lead into a discussion of Christ's death.

Now I am not trying to justify these simply because they "work", but am just pointing out that as Krispy pointed out from Scripture, "all things are lawful, BUT not all things are profitable" and since there is no CLEAR verse pronouncing tattoos as sin, then we must leave it up to the individual conscience as the Holy Spirit directs.

Of course there are many who get tattoos when they are first brought to Life, and eventually regret to a point getting them, but that is another discussion.

Ok, now I'll go hide my head in the sand for awhile :-D .

I believe that sums it up nicely, Krispy.

If you tell someone they are free to do as they please you will see what is in their heart soon enough. Tell them they cannot and it will be stifled for awhile then explode and those around them will wonder where this came from. It was in the heart all along. (Col. 2 deals with this) I know this mostly from my own experience.

Immature or carnal Christians often do as much "as they can get away with" not realizing the self pleasing, self serving disposition they have.

Is it OK to get a tattoo? You certainly can know if you are willing to know. The Holy Spirit will make it apparent if you are listening.

Is it OK to get a tattoo? Is it OK to drink a beer? Is it OK to listen to secular music?...smoke cigarettes, go to a club, watch rated R movies etc...

It may be better to ask is it OK with you if the Lord Jesus, Who bought you with His blood from death and hell, gets His way with you?

It is a matter of obeying the Spirit of God. And it is to his Master that he will stand or fall. God bless them if they were obedient. If not they will see the wood, hey and stubble burn up on that day.

Free from Sin not Free to Sin

Free from Sin not Free to Sin

Brother show me one part of Scripture aside from Leviticus that clearly forbids tattoos, and I'll get them removed.

To label it as sin, and make a sweeping accusation like that is not right, nor does it deny what I said earlier.

And no I am not arguing for "worldliness" here at all. If you are going to call something sin, and denounce all who are doing it, be sure it is clearly presented as such in Scripture.

It is an offense against other believers to enforce your convictions upon others if they are not CLEARLY portrayed as sin in the Bible.

Let God be God brother, the Holy Spirit is much better at correcting and convicting people than you or I are. Trust me I have learned the hard way.

As far as a Christian going out and getting a tattoo... ok, so maybe it's a Roman's 14 issue but it is a gratification of the flesh without doubt, and so if I know of a "Christian" going out to get one I really wonder what's his walk with God really like?
Are we seeking to please God in all that we do or are we just pleasing ourselves and trying to back it up with scripture?
Pardon me if I've repeated anything that's already been stated, I didn't have time to read the whole thread.

Returning back to Dom's original question, I am sure most of us agree that Todd Bentley is trying to usher in a whole set of unacceptable practices. I am very concerned that people are following the so-called signs and wonders and manifestations thinking he is hearing from God.

It will only be a matter of time until "signs and wonders" become the basis on which everything is judged. Like his T-shirt said, "Jesus loves me and my tattoos" the implication being- "and if you don't think so- look at this empty wheelchair." What will be next? Jesus loves Harley Davidson and ultimate fighting? Jesus loves Mortification and U2? Jesus wants me to impart this anointing to the whole world?

This stuff is causing some serious division in our circles right now. I live in greater Kansas City and it is sweeping like wild fire. this stuff is moving more swiftly than Rodney Howard Brown's bubbly bubbly, and Toronto's laughter. The people that are falling into it are dressing themselves like they have lost their minds. People that were wholesome and modest that I just saw ministering 6 months ago now look like rock stars. People are saying, "step outside the box", "this is not church as usual" as if we have shifted into some kind of spiritual anarchy.

We need to be more discerning about what we allow to go on and what we accept. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is probably a _______. The enemy would have us just cast off all restraint and act like the Israelites when Moses was up on the mountain. There are just too many pagan and occult type practices and links; in fact, just [u]one[/u] would be too many.

Someone has to be a voice of reason here. I don't care how many tattoos anyone here has. But when I see a man go from virtually none to looking like a Hell's Angel biker in a matter of a few years, somebody has to say something. What is going on? Who are we trying to identify with? Why does so many in the church try to out 'world' the world? To beat them at their own game? It is madness. Would we find Jesus doing these things? What about Paul or Peter? We need to abstain from the very appearance of evil and feel the shame of the lives that we once lived and not try to celebrate and memorialize them.

Why does so many in the church try to out 'world' the world?

I feel very strongly this is because many in our churches feel more comfortable with darkness. They secretly or openly rail against those who desire to walk in the light along with with the world, deriding purity as legalism and self righteousness.

Any time a truly repentant saint feels grief over even the subtlest form of sin, or protests some form of worldly expression, the group resists him. First they try to soothe his grief and fear of God with false comfort and sophisticated reasoning...yet this only further grieves the repentant person, who isn't looking for more justification but for their beloved. Then they ostracize him or her as being closed minded, self righteous, unloving, judgmental, legalistic ....they impugn the lowly who desire pure hearts with the same cynical impudence of the world.

I don't think it's complicated...but it's still hard to believe. The terrible thing is that I am not immune to this aversion to light exposing my deeds, touching my life. Somedays, the temptation to inch closer to the darkness to relieve your awakened conscience is very strong brethren. In darkness the fear of God becomes less and less certain...and many welcome this ambiguity. It's temporary relief is a false substitute for true grace.

Knowing this, whatever light we have of God must be tenderly protected and cultivated in our lives. Who would insist on their right to do questionable things only to risk hardening their hearts or dulling their consciences? These days I am becoming less interested in what is permissible and more interested in what is perfect...I fear there is a great cliff of falling away opening up in this land---it is foolish to keep wanting to see how close we can get to the edge of this cliff without falling off.

MC

Do tattoos glorify the Lord? What does the Lord say about this?

Hey, by the way... Todd Bentley preaches some pretty demonic stuff. Please put me on the farthest train away from Bentley, unless I am called by the Lord to go confront him, then send me to the front.

May God be glorified.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16294&forum=34]A spiritual person[/url]