Is taking a break from Church wrong?

Interesting timing brother ...

I hesitate greatly but you are describing myself and situation to a "T".

Old subject of many debates on SI. With a new twist. After we left a church 7 months ago, that was seeker friendly purpose driven, we left. My conscience could not sit under this teaching any longer. My whole view on what church is and what I wish it could be like, was due to being on SI. It was a reformation that took place. God so much used SI to open my eyes.

This is the hard part...now there is a struggle in discerning with what I have been learning through SI, and reading "dead theologians". TO what the church looks like. I would think if many of these men would be around today, they would be floored and outraged!! Would the Lord call someone out of a fellowship for a season? I know this happened to Ray Comfort at onetime for about a year.

Just made mention in your other thread regarding David Wilkerson and this is redundant ... but the very message I linked was instrumental in my reasons for pulling out of the church as I knew it. To this date I have still not returned, I am "out of church" and I am really quite unsure just exactly where that puts me.

Though that particular message had been listened to half a dozen times prior and has nothing at all to do with the extraction, this line of yours summarises it completely; "[i]My conscience could not sit under this teaching any longer.[/i]" To back up a hair, first it was the realization of those things we were ... indoctrinated into under the whole sway of WOF and all that accompanies that. We shortly left that church, in fact I vowed never to again darken it's doors after they made a mockery of the terrible times shortly after 911. Interestingly, now that I notice it, both of these instances revolve around prayer. In the former, it was at a week day, special prayer meeting one or two days after the planes struck. I came after work broken and burdened over the entirety of it all, the madness, the sadness, the cruelty of the human condition ... so many things coursing through the thoughts. To cut the whole thing short, well that was the issue, it was cut short. Rather than allowing the mourning and mostly quiet, sobering aspects of prayer and petitioning unto God the scene changed dramatically with the Pastor 'sensing' they should carry on with what the preceding weeks subject matter was; Tongues.

From there my spirit was vexed as it turned into a mêlée of confusion and nonsense. Prompted to let go and 'open up your mind', to not 'quench the spirit' all of a sudden it was 30 people all speaking gibberish with no interpretation ... As bad as it was, as confused of spirit as I was, still I prayed and pointedly asked "Lord, if this is true, if you wish to speak through me than you will have to force open this mouth and do so, I will not go along nor fake my way through it." I was too much the coward to speak up, but my wife picked up on my body language and we had no small dispute over it all afterwards. The towers had fallen, thousands were dead, the eerie silence of sky's without planes and we were to just shift gears into speaking babble and be happy about it all. No. Never again. It was the end.

After a time, do not recall how long, a few months perhaps we went to another church, more subdued and the first time was to hear the father of the man who died after rushing the cockpit of the ill fated plane. It was an incredibly powerful expression and articulation, many tears .. it was more in his demeanor and disposition than anything that I recall him stating. We soon joined this church and even to this day, I harbor nothing but love ... However ...

It is still very modern and susceptible to the seeker\\purpose constructs, it's the whole mixed bag of things difficult to pin down into specifics. Which year I forget now but at the turn of it, New Years Eve they had set up a 24 hour prayer meeting which I had signed up for. Had it in mind to fulfill that obligation and then stay in the church all night quietly praying alone in the seats. On the way there had popped in Wilkerson's message once again and by the time I had arrived the sense of a shared burden had only been increased, was already of the same mind prior, the whole reason for going in the first place. To my disappointment, there was but the two organizers and myself. They had typed out the 'prayer requests' that were of a very generic sort, pray for this, pray for that. Very rote. It was all too structured and for my part ... forced, my spirit was again vexed and confused, it was all I could think but that the problem was with me, not them. Whatever the case again that same sense of [i]My conscience could not sit under this ...[/i] any longer. It wasn't a matter of blame necessarily, again felt I was the problem even with my sensibilities telling me otherwise, something was just wrong and I couldn't partake of it. I knew then as I decided not to stay, I couldn't stay, that I would never again return. I have been out of regular church ever since.

As you mentioned it is due in large part to all that has been absorbed through SI. I pray that is never taken the wrong way, it is in a sense neither here nor there, it is neither proof nor advice of anything. It may be almost paradoxical if all these dead men, these great men of God, (for they are, more than 'were') great in their articulation and expression of being used by God for His set purposes, the paradox would be how much they emphasized belonging to a local body if taken in total, in generalities.

Ultimately it is what is being taught that I cannot any longer tolerate, it is not a certain 'flavor' nor a personal preference nor even the fact that this is all constituted and rightly in my estimation as "old" that keeps me out of modern constructs and latching unto the past as it were. Frankly, I just do not know where or what I am supposed to do church wise. It's been a couple of years now, it is not a sort of conviction but it is also not something that has left me alone either.

Have gone to hear Zac Poonen and while he lived, Art Katz who could hold one spellbound if I could borrow that phrase loosely, for hours at time, tremendous how 4 hours of preaching could leave one thinking, but you have only just begun!

But even Zac seemed out of place where I heard him, I am sorry it is a difficult thing to explain and I would spare the criticism for something more alarming, like this confusion in Florida presently. The gathering of the saints from our lot at the conference last year in Canton ... The wonderful chills run up my arms as I write ... here was the church and if I am biased, so be it. Such a collection of ... 'oddities', the head covered and the not so, even the reference made to the fact from a unknown brother was a tremendous moment. Faces to names that have long tarried here, that strange thing of knowing them well that it made such little difference, it is knowing them in spirit and truth if there ever was evidence of it. It was the peace of the sanctuary upon arrival and all the load of this busy life and responsibilities and heart break and family and finance and ... falling off like a load of bricks crashing to the floor. It was the brother who sat down beside me from New York (or New Jersey perhaps it was) somewhat perplexed over "Who organized these men together?" He was not very fond of a certain representative and speaker that was present, having some theological as well as practical issues with their ministry, but had come to hear Carter Conlon. That, in itself was telling and spelling of it all. Different ministries with perhaps different emphasis but at the [i]core[/i] ... true believers anyway you sliced it and all still of one mind. It was as challenging in reality as it is here daily, a variety of perspective from a core that is ... sound.

And if anything that lone word is what may summarize where I am personally. I am just as ready to go back as stay out. It is a very difficult time and much confusion abounds, in fact this whole Florida business has me quite vexed and I cannot shake it though I am already well past weary of it, it keeps coming back to haunt me and I have written pages of expression that I keep returning to try and ... the thrust of it is over [i]confusion[/i] and it is full of confusion itself! Somethings wrong.

This is the hard part...now there is a struggle in discerning with what I have been learning through SI, and reading "dead theologians". TO what the church looks like. I would think if many of these men would be around today, they would be floored and outraged!!

Brother it gives new meaning to "turning over in their graves". So many of these men saw this on the horizon in their day, just the likes of Tozer and Ravenhill, only some 40 to 50 years ago. Their 'prophetic' insight is a far cry from the nonsense of crystal ball like pronouncements that pass off as prophecy in our day.

I don't know what all this is saying as answer to your question, can only be as forthcoming as I ought. Something sound, something with pathos, from the gut, with guts, with courage and adamancy in love, something from the core of our being ... Just give me reality and truth and honesty, otherwise I cannot bare it any longer, cannot bare the false things and the falsity of spirit.

Would the Lord call someone out of a fellowship for a season? I know this happened to Ray Comfort at onetime for about a year.

Blessings
Mike

Hey Brother,

Just reading the question you posted, the first thought was how do you take a break from church, because if we are a true believer we are the church. There is no way you can break away from something that you are. Jesus could not deny himself and neither can we if we are truly His.

But upon reading the rest of your post and seeing some of your heart and also having read some of your other posts I can see that reformer is a true believer who has a passion for Christ and His true Word.

My prayer is that God will lead you as you seek His Face to next phase in your spiritual walk.

That Christ will be your all and all. The scripture speaks loud and clear in the following verses.

Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

I believe brother that your heart will be continually before the Lord and He will show you what to do in keeping His Word even if (and you may already be doing this) inviting people (believers & non believers as of yet) in to your home for bible study and fellowship in the Lord.

I do believe God will lead you to others of like minded faith as yourself for fellowship whether at another place or at your place.

Here is a scripture that has been a great comfort to me and I hope for you as well.

Ps 9:10 And they that know thy name will put their trust in thee: for thou, LORD, hast not forsaken them that seek thee.

I guess I should have better laid out the question. organized church.

Organized Church sounds like organized crime - lol 8-)

I went through the same process and found a fellowship where the truth is preached but there are still issues that I am not so comfortable with like women preaching, conducted worship and
lack of decipleship.

I wonder, is anyone of us in a fellowship that comes close to the pattern and principles laid out in the bible?

narrowpath

Organized Church sounds like organized crime - lol

I'm chuckling and at the same time trying to tell myself, "hey, that's not funny." :-P

In all seriousness, I sometimes feel the men who go to seminary to become pastors often feel the same way about the organized part of church. It may be that it's alot like big government...everyone wants to see change, but they don't want to lose their livelihood in the process. They started out with good intentions but now that they are having questions, they find themselves without many options for alternative vocations to provide for their families. Also, they don't really have a clear vision what that change would look like.

I feel for many pastors in this economic and spiritual conflict.

MC

They started out with good intentions but now that they are having questions, they find themselves without many options for alternative vocations to provide for their families. Also, they don't really have a clear vision what that change would look like.

So they must rely on the Lord for provision . . . is that not the heart of the problem after all?

I think we owe it to ourselves to define "traditional church". I propose there is nothing at all wrong with traditional church provided the Pastor is a genuine old-path preacher. As far as congregations go, there's only so much the pastor can do. I am reminded of the saintly Jonathan Edwards being voted out by his own flock. I don't believe he was embittered by this, and he certainly didn't set off to form his own house movement. In fact, most of the wonderful men of God we so abundantly glean from here on SI are somehow or another associated with someone's definition of the "traditional" church. Perhaps the only exemptions being our Asian brothers and sisters in Christ who are deprived altogether of a "tradtional" church due to government law.

How many of us wouldn't be blessed to sit under the "traditional" pastorate of an A.W. Tozer, a T. Austin Sparks, a Richard Baxter, a Jim Cymbala, a Charles Stanley, an Octavius Winslow, an R.M. McCheyne, an Edward Payson, a C.H. Spurgeon? God has not abandoned the traditional church fellowship; people instead get their feelings hurt and impetuously remove themselves from under authority, often bringing to nought the work of grace God would bring into their lives through such frictions and feather-ruffling.

Of course, such shouldn't be a blanket assumption, as God is also able to call people out to begin their own fellowships, like Poonen and others...but the end result is always the same: an organized fellowship of deacons and elders and rules and regulations and statements of faith that soon morph into a traditional fellowship of its own right. And why shouldn't it be? God Himself is a God of order, of conciseness, a delegator of levels of authority.

Would the Lord call someone out of a fellowship for a season?

There is no Scriptural justification whatsoever for neglecting fellowship with other saints for a season. Even if the church you attend is lukewarm, "seeker friendly," and has pathetic preaching, there is no Scriptural justification for the forsaking fellowship with these saints. They need you just as much as you need them. Indeed, without your presence and labor amongst them, they may forever go down the wrong paths. "Revival" can only break out in places where there needs to be reviving.

Oopps... almost forgot. My suggestion would be to you that if you are not presently attending a church, start a small and humble fellowship out of your very home. One thing I believe the Lord has shown me that is if I ever find myself in a place where His name is not established, and there are no other Christians around for me to have mutual fellowship with, that I am under obligation to establish the name of Christ where I am at.

Sitting in rows watching the show is not scriptural, it is Romanish.

Krispy

I don’t really understand watch you mean by your outlandish comment, because Jesus had them sit down by ranks of 100’s and 50’s and no doubt rows to feed the multitudes..

I hope you weren’t implying that people, who sit in rows for order of seating to hear a Godly Holy Spirit filled preacher, preach and minister the word so that those who are hearing can receive, is wrong.

rbanks wrote:

I don’t really understand watch you mean by your outlandish comment, because Jesus had them sit down by ranks of 100’s and 50’s and no doubt rows to feed the multitudes..

I hope you weren’t implying that people, who sit in rows for order of seating to hear a Godly Holy Spirit filled preacher, preach and minister the word so that those who are hearing can receive, is wrong.

If I may. It is not that it is wrong to sit under such men, but only that it is not scriptual.

Sitting and listening to a preacher in a "modern church setting" cannot be found throughout the new testiment. This is a religious tradition of men, created by men, for men. Church is to be interactive with the entire body moving in its giftings together. The modern day (post 300AD) "service" goes against what the Lord has taught us to do.

Jesus tells us to go and make disciples. How can someone, a preacher in a large church, physically disciple upwards of 500+ people at the same time? How can he "pour his life into these folks" on a one on one personal level in order to make them disciples? He cannot.

In order to have the body function completely, the Church needs to rise above everything that we hold dear, and embrace what the Lord holds dear, which is intimate fellowship with Himself and His body, i.e. the Church.

I do want to stress that I am not against people going to a pew stressed church service, but I am against any institution that stresses leadership only teaching. This is not biblical.

“Wow, Mike, this could be liberating for you! You may have some exciting adventure with the Lord ahead of you.”

As I think back to the way God “nudged” me out of the institutionalized church, I realize that we humans tend not to launch out into new uncharted territory as long as things are going nicely where we are. We seem to require a certain degree of dissatisfaction before we will realize that maybe, just maybe God has something else planned.

While we are out in the desert, so to speak, away from the lights and mics, we find ourselves being ministered to by God himself – alone with him. We gradually unhitch the mental/spiritual ties – those “voices” that have become implanted in our minds through years of church life. We must become unhitched from all that. And then we are free to hear from God in new and unexpected ways.

By the way, God has re-planted me in the institutionalized church – not because it is an ideal church, but in order to offer a few drops of water in the dry desert, and learn to rely on him even more deeply. My real Church is not bound by walls. It is being built by God who has been blessing me through his servants scattered here and there.

“Where two or three are gathered…”

I include a wonderful resource for those who have escaped the institutionalized church – either figuratively or for real. It is loaded with helpful and rich biblical teaching (material you rarely hear in church).

The teaching on this site (by Chip Brodgen), in my opinion qualifies as true discipleship. You will no doubt be blessed by this cyberspace pastor whom God raised up for this present season in the history of his Church:

[url=http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/index.html]The School of Christ [/url]

Diane

I recommend much of Brogden's teachings as well. Take some of what he says with a grain of salt though. He has a "maverick" spirit about him sometimes.

"God has not abandoned the traditional church fellowship; people instead get their feelings hurt and impetuously remove themselves from under authority, often bringing to nought the work of grace God would bring into their lives through such frictions and feather-ruffling."

This is a truth we must consider carefully when contemplating leaving a fellowship. We humans love our freedom and can catch a case of wanderlust without recognizing it for what it is. Most of us here, I imagine, understand that the way to life is through death and the path of the cross is terrible to the old man. The thought of leaving the church and the circumstances the Lord has prepared amidst that fellowship would smell like a spring breeze after the rain coming through the window if we are in that dark, painful place in the path. If you leave you could be sabatoging the Lord's work in you.

It is also dangerous to leave the fellowship without His obvious leading. Remember the fellows that are cast out of the fellowship for the purpose of discipline...they become prey for the enemy.

I understand the heart that wants change and is fed up with the status quo, but I am not in my church for me. I am there because He put me there to feed His lambs. Be very careful when making your decision that the Lord is leading you.

It should be noted that to leave the church and rail against the church because it has become very instutional, and then to leave the church because of that, is keeping in spirit with the biblical definition of a heretic. Schismatics are of the flesh, and to cause division in the body (be it actively or passively) is of the devil.

A "come out of her" mentality is proper towards the world, but not your brothers and sisters in Christ... even if they are not the most spiritual bunch.

A further note, I cannot find one place in Scripture where we are ever encouraged to "leave" the church. Even within the problematic churches of Revelation 2-3, Christ never once told anybody in any of those churches to abandon the fellowship of the church. The only one's we are not to have any fellowship with, according to Scripture, are those so-called "brothers" who live in open unrepentant sin.

I cannot find one place in Scripture where we are ever encouraged to "leave" the church.

This is a good observation, KingJimmy. But, then, it's not so black and white. After all, it’s not about what you or I think we should do about our situation, but what God calls us to do. As I have said many times, a bad church is not a reason to leave and a good church is not a reason to stay. One could leave a “bad church” for wrong reasons, or stay in a good church for wrong reasons.

Here's another point: Running away from troubles in a church may be merely out of self-interest - while God is wishing to use church troubles to refine our faith and whittle away some rough edges.

We are not lords of our own lives, even regarding these matters.

I recommend much of Brogden's teachings as well. Take some of what he says with a grain of salt though. He has a "maverick" spirit about him sometimes.

?

Diane

This may not directly address this topic. But I think it fits with the thought. It is never good to leave church. We have a tendency to shop around like we're buying a car, deciding whether to purchase it basis on the options and packages the dealer offers. This is the state of modern Church culture. Perhaps we have too many options. Perhaps if there were some general concensus throughout the body that would investigate when someone it migriating their membership there would be less "transfer growth". That's when one church grows at the expense of the diminishing of another. Yes, we are lead by the Spirit. But the Spirit also leads us to take practical steps to insure that people are where they should be. Don't know if this will ever happen though. Some churches welcome the new faces because of there own desire to see "church growth". Some allow it because that potential member is coming from a "rival" local church in the area. I can go on and on.

On the other hand, as is with my case, I have two children, one 18mos the other 3mos. My wife works every weekend, which makes getting to church a real challenge. So, as many of you would most likely do, I worship at home. It certainly is not the same. Corporate worship is glorious. But, I would like to believe that the omniscient God knew the season I would be in. It's not easy. I have been ordained and have traveled to a few places around the world as a missionary. I long terribly to go again. I've seen some amazing things happen while on foreign soil. Without His grace I know I could not bear it. This is not to shed a negative light on the blessing of my marriage and family. I love them. Yet, as some of you may understand, nothing compares to actively serving Him. Now, I have come to understand, and am still learning, that my family is also like a mission field, albeit a very different kind. And there is much work and fulfillment in it too. Like one preacher said while I was listening to AM radio, "God has your life in a holding pattern". That ministered to me a lot. I needed to hear that. So, perhaps this message was mostly for me. Though I suppose there may be others that are in similar circumstances. I praise God for this website and for Greg, who obeyed Him. It's been a while since I last chimed in. It's good to be back.

This is a good observation, KingJimmy. But, then, it's not so black and white. After all, it’s not about what you or I think we should do about our situation, but what God calls us to do. As I have said many times, a bad church is not a reason to leave and a good church is not a reason to stay. One could leave a “bad church” for wrong reasons, or stay in a good church for wrong reasons.

I'm not going to say the Holy Spirit wouldn't tell somebody to withdrawal from fellowship for a brief season, but, I believe the Scripture doesn't encourage such behavior either. What is very clear is that we should draw together all the more as the day of the Lord draws near. There may be exceptions to this, but, for sure, it is not the normative thing the Lord would have us to do.

As I have said many times, a bad church is not a reason to leave and a good church is not a reason to stay. One could leave a “bad church” for wrong reasons, or stay in a good church for wrong reasons.

Indeed.

Here's another point: Running away from troubles in a church may be merely out of self-interest - while God is wishing to use church troubles to refine our faith and whittle away some rough edges.

Indeed. What right do we have to run away from problems if we are at a place that God called us to? Unless God tells us to go somewhere, the place we are at is the place God wants us to grow. And sometimes a plant needs some stinky fertilizer added to its soil to cause it to grow.

Like brother Art Katz frequently would say, the church is a place of suffering before it is a glory. The pains, tensions, and heartaches that we feel in our churches are meant to be crosses that God is calling us to embrace. Death always precedes life. The cross always precedes resurrection. Passover always precedes Pentecost. And unless we embrace these sufferings, any "glory" we encounter is suspect and likely superficial. Ministers and "lay" people alike should not flee a church because of bad things that are happening.

?

What I meant about Brogden is that his teachings, while generally good, sometimes have a "maverick" mindset behind them that fosters a "come out of her" mentality. So far as I have followed his ministry, such is why he has pretty much left the church to begin with, and generally attracts people who have the same mentality.

What I meant about Brogden is that his teachings, while generally good, sometimes have a "maverick" mindset behind them that fosters a "come out of her" mentality.

I’m not sure if I would call this a “maverick” mindset or a word from the Lord. I am inclined to see it as the later, as I have yet found no cause to suspect anything else. Quite the contrary. Brodgen differentiates between the “church” that is man-made/run from the Church that is being formed by God. Of course, we all know that the eternal church is not the same as the church that we define by labels, constitutions, rituals, walls (including home churches) and so forth. And yet, there seems to be a perpetual tendency in any church to apply all Biblical references about church to that category – including the one “forsake not the fellowship”. Frankly, I do not feel obligated, based on that verse, to “fellowship” with unbelievers or those disinterested in edifying the saints.

I am convinced that in any church on Sunday, a vast majority are not saved, even though they believe they are. For me, the “church”, as we use the term is not “church” as the Bible uses it, but really it is the mission field. Surely true church can indeed happen outside of the institutional walls or functions – without being an organized function. It certainly does for me – and that is exciting. God is building his Church and refining his children – and through any means! Example:

Like one preacher said while I was listening to AM radio, "God has your life in a holding pattern". That ministered to me a lot. I needed to hear that.

Why is it that for years we Protestants have felt quite justified in nudging people out of the Catholic Church, but are reluctant to do so when our Protestant churches become equally overrun with heresy?

Diane

Yes, the scripture does call us out of certain fellowships. 2 Cor. 6

Yes, the Scriptures call us to abstain from fellowshipping with believers (on an individual to individual basis) with those who are living in overt sin.

I do disagree that we should stay in a fellowship that your conscience may grieve over, due to teachings, seeker methods and so on. What is good for one person is maybe not good for another.

I've yet to be to a church that didn't in some way grieve me in someway. It is interesting that you left a church because you found their teachings weak and their practices unscriptural. Yet, I must ask you in all sincerety, where is the Biblical basis for refraining from fellowship simply because one's conscience is offended at the things going on in the church? I must say in all love, this is just as carnal as being "seeker friendly," with just about as much Scriptural justification for it: zero. Your conscience may indeed be offended, but, we must be led by the Word and the Spirit.

I don't believe God has called us to reform the church from inside out.

The reformers had a saying, that the church must always be at the task of "ever reforming." The churches in Revelation 2-3 serve as a perfect model for this. In some churches you had lukewarmness, people following false prophets, etc. Yet in others you had a mixture of good and bad. Of the seven churches in Revelation 2-3, only two were praiseworthy by Christ. Yet Christ did not tell folks in the other five churches to escape the churches they were in and go to the church across the street. Instead, He called them to be transformed.

Are we called to change our pastors, teachers in our churches?

Absolutely. God has given some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the building up of the body of Christ, for the perfecting of the saints, and bringing the body to corporate maturity. Pastors of churches should be called to the mat just like anybody else. They are not above being rebuked by any member of the congregation just because they are pastors. All members of the body have giftings and ministries. They should exercise them in a gentle and loving way, even to those in error.

Let us be guided by the Word of God!

And yet, there seems to be a perpetual tendency in any church to apply all Biblical references about church to that category – including the one “forsake not the fellowship”. Frankly, I do not feel obligated, based on that verse, to “fellowship” with unbelievers or those disinterested in edifying the saints.

All you need is two or three gathered together in His name. That is the Biblical foundation for a church. If you have just two or three, He is there in your midst. Even if a thousand others be there who are not there in His name, that doesn't mean we forsake the two or three. Even if those two or three don't see eye to eye with us on doctrine, so long as Christ lives in them, that is all that matters. If Christ lives in them, no matter how carnal/immature they are, Christ is still with them and are your brother and sister in the faith. This is the Biblical acid test.

For me, the “church”, as we use the term is not “church” as the Bible uses it, but really it is the mission field. Surely true church can indeed happen outside of the institutional walls or functions – without being an organized function. It certainly does for me – and that is exciting. God is building his Church and refining his children – and through any means!

Amen.

Why is it that for years we Protestants have felt quite justified in nudging people out of the Catholic Church, but are reluctant to do so when our Protestant churches become equally overrun with heresy?

There is some heresy worth parting ways over. "Seeker friendlism" as wrong as it is, definitely is not worth splitting a church over. And depending on the degree to which one holds to the WoF error, I'd say it is not worth splitting over either.

There is some heresy worth parting ways over. "Seeker friendlism" as wrong as it is, definitely is not worth splitting a church over. And depending on the degree to which one holds to the WoF error, I'd say it is not worth splitting over either.

Jimmy, I agree with you on this. As you implied, there may be an issue in the degrees we are talking about, but in general we should avoid being too hasty to part ways. Being apart of a fellowship that seems to have some degree of compromise or error, doesn't mean that you have to compromise or err yourself.

MC

Should you stay if you don't agree with what you are seeing, you feel it is an error? Then where do you draw the line?

Blessings
Mike

Great question...

Why would anyone stay in these situations? So if someone were brought into Benny Hinns ministry or Todd Bentley's ministry and it was revealed that they are in error, do you stay there? Nope.

Unless God tells you to stay (in a booming audible voice), you should leave.

To leave when a false prophet is dominating the church is to err. Paul says we should correct those in error with all authority. A Nicolaitan spirit should not go unchallenged, and instead, should be confronted. To simply submit to it and leave is to give into it yourself.

Then where do you draw the line?

This is the question. It's takes us right back we started here my friend. :-)

There are fewer rules then we might wish for in this circumstance. For me there are two 'rules' that I have settled on. Which grieves my conscience more; staying or leaving? Note that this question changes over time, and as we become family men safe guarding over our wives and children. When I start to feel that I am sinning by staying, it is time to leave. I empathize with those who feel strongly about an issue enough to leave.

Now, I do believe it is important to note that staying is not the same as condoning things. If that were the case, the mature saints would always be pulling away from the immature.

So if someone were brought into Benny Hinns ministry or Todd Bentley's ministry

These men are two extreme madcap examples! I am more of a fundamentalist these days, but surprisingly enough, their tiresome claims of supernatural gifts and visions would not necessarily be enough for me to leave their churches. However, after hearing some of his personal testimony, I freely admit I could not stay under the influence of this man. I think there is a problem with him darker then mere seeker freindlism or Wof. Regarding Benny Hinn, I do not think his wanton lifestyle demonstrates sufficient integrity for him to be a good example for the general public, and much less is he qualified to be a spiritual shepherd to the Church. He exploits superstition for gain, when as a Christian he should be setting people free from these things.

I hope my candor helps qualify my earlier comments in an edifying manner.

MC

So I know I am beating a dead horse with this thread.

Reformer, hopefully you don't feel the need to apologize. The thread wasn't excessive, and your question was a sincere one.

I had one other thought one this issue. I was considering that our tolerance level for what we would feel is compromise, is probably greater in a church we are already attending, while much lower if we were looking for a church fellowship to be a part of. That is to say, many of the churches we choose to remain loyal to, would not be places we would choose if we were looking for a church. I'm not sure if this type of loyalty is a healthy or unhealthy double standard...but I think it might be the case for many of us. Maybe I'm wrong though.

MC