TODD BENTLEY'S HEALINGS NOT VERIFIABLE

May I suggest that these "miracles" be viewed in light of Jesus teaching as recorded in Matthew 7:22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I often think of this verse: the extreme disappointment these people will face on judgment day! Or, did they know they were in rebellion against God and went on ahead and worked in defiance of Him to prove to themselves that obedience is mere optional and that God will bless anyways? If this is the case may I be so bold as to suggest they deserve hell?

According to this scripture healings/miracles [i]may[/i] be verifiable and if so, one must ask, "yes, but where do they come from?" In Bently's case the situation is more cut and dried: none have been forthcoming.

ginnyrose

There is a 8 min. ' way of the master ' clip that features Bentley speaking/joking about pounding on the elderly, with drop kicks and other full force attacks, he even knock someones tooth out, (I wonder if he healed it back in? or maybe it was a demonic tooth that needed to be cast out!!) IN HIS OWN WORDS

http://upp.mypodcast.com/

Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008
Way of the Master Exposes Todd Bentley

Bentley is trampling on our Saviour's name.

While he's not the first and unfortunately probably won't be the last, this is a tragedy for both him and the many followers being duped.

It looks to me that Lakeland is becoming a kind of cult and for our own well being is best ignored. Our flesh can become strangely fascinated with this type of show.

I wish it would just go away. It's terrible to see so many people taken in. It's also being broadcast worldwide. How long can God tolerate this?

I know that the matter of Todd Bentley's meetings has been discussed many times on this forum and most people are pretty clued up with what he is about. Nevertheless I came across a great article that goes through many issues surrounding Todd Bentley, and extensively lists the scriptures which show him to be fake. It is well worth a look.

See: [url=http://www.inplainsite.org/html/todd_bentley.html]Todd Bently[/url]

With love
Darren

yep.. I' m sick of hearing about this guy.

by the way, does anyone know how to que-up the
(busted tooth bewildered looking smiley icon)
I wanted to use it on my last post.. & couldn't find it

"If any man speak, [i]let him speak[/i] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [i]let him do it[/i] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen."

- 1Peter 4:11(KJV)

Do our public discussions of others, our opinions about them and our ideas about thier motives, reflect from Heaven?

Is it appropriate to speak for ourselves about these things in this way?

... that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever. Amen."

Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Is it appropriate to speak for ourselves about these things in this way?

Would it be appropriate to remain silent in light of them?

[url=http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?cat=15]Todd Bentley’s Strange “Revival” Continues[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=23415&forum=35&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=1]THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRITS THAT TODD BENTLEY OPERATES UNDER[/url]

Is making too big of a deal something to be said over against it's counter part, making too little a deal of it?

... [i]in this way[/i], it is worth our pondering ... I recognize how I have allowed this to push myself to a point of exasperation prior and wishing some things had been left unsaid ... [i]in that manner[/i] that you speak of, it is regrettable.

I think I am more afraid of the balancing act than anything with this. There isn't enough outcry to be shouted until it comes to it's demise. The roots of this thing are deep and wide and I do not know that equivocating on it is going to do anything but feed it's perpetuity.

I think it is beyond appropriate but an obligation that we have to warn, to exhort, to plead, to be very grave about it, sincere and earnest. The God who we profess to love is having His very glory and honor due Him tarnished and made sport of, his Holy Spirit mocked ... I cannot finish this.

:( sigh*

[i]...ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.[/i]

In this thread, Krispykrittr has mentioned what unnamed witnesses said a blaspheming comic is reported to have done before he died.

And brothertom has shared what [b]he thinks[/b] Mr. Bently [b]knows[/b] he is doing.

And the title of this thread suggests it is about how Mr Bently's healings are not[b]VERIFIABLE[/b].

The Lord Jesus said that wisdom, is justified, of her children.

[i]

O God, why hast thou cast us off for ever? why doth thine anger smoke against the sheep of thy pasture?

Remember thy congregation, which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.

Lift up thy feet unto the perpetual desolations; even all that the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.

Thine enemies roar in the midst of thy congregations; they set up their ensigns for signs.

A man was famous according as he had lifted up axes upon the thick trees. But now they break down the carved work thereof at once with axes and hammers.

They have cast fire into thy sanctuary, they have defiled by casting down the dwelling place of thy name to the ground. They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.

O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?

Why withdrawest thou thy hand, even thy right hand? pluck it out of thy bosom.

For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth.

Thou didst divide the sea by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters.

Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers.

The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun.

Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.

Remember this, that the enemy hath reproached, O LORD, and that the foolish people have blasphemed thy name.

O deliver not the soul of thy turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of thy poor for ever.

Have respect unto the covenant: for the dark places of the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty.

O let not the oppressed return ashamed: let the poor and needy praise thy name.

Arise, O God, plead thine own cause: remember how the foolish man reproacheth thee daily.

Forget not the voice of thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against thee increaseth continually.[/i] Psa 74

KrispyKrittr,

"Uhhh... it's well documented. It's even on a website run by Kinison's brother."

Is that really the point here?

But if it was, should we all run to the website to verify your comments after you said this...

"(If you dont know who Kinison was, just take my word for it... dont google him. He was a raunchy blaspheming comedian)"

Is that really the point here?

Brother, I am almost as perplexed over these mentions as to the whole of it. Is the point of this a matter of squabbling over whether these things are verifiable or what we think of this whole blaspheming ... evangelist?, preacher? teacher?... Who is the blaspheming comic here?

This whole thing is tragedy of comedy that is not at all funny. And it grieves me as much that we would get bogged down into the minutiae when the whole collective is completely overt.

I mean the things that are verifiable because they themselves have put it right out in plain sight, from within their own resources, there is no need for a 'heresy hunt'.

There is no [i]shame[/i] when the people can laugh when they ought to be outraged and weeping profoundly over the matters displayed before them. This is sleeping with the eyes wide open and is accepting another spirit for the [i]Holy[/i] Spirit.

There is a whole preconditioning that has been going on for years that makes this so much easier to readily accept. I am begging to think that there just might be much more truth to the case that some of our overbearing bible translation-ists are forwarding; That these more modern versions are in fact dumbing down the faith and feeding the very fuel that supports the incredulous notions that are upon us. I am not quite ready to get bogged back down into the minutiae of this tortured subject either, but a piece of it might be found towards this evidence.

For years now, this ... over and over again ... the appeal back to it, the matter of fact-ness of it;

[i]This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.[/i] 2Ti 3:1-5

How many of these very 'harsh' descriptions and defining words are applicable?

[i]Lovers of pleasure[/i] [u]more than[/u] lovers of God. How else to express the drawing cards to this manifestation? Who is in the headlines? [i]What[/i] is the [i]purpose[/i] of this so called revival?

The globe is groaning profusely and America is bleeding internally, spiritually, culturally, morally. And we are to think that the Almighty is going to throw us a love fest\\carnival\\circus\\healing\\financial - frivolous, flippant and incredulous display of unheard of acts of public ridicule ...

All this while the blood of the saints in other countries cry out for justice under severe persecution. We have lost our minds and our marbles to think this is anything but a strong delusion and that it is anything but of demonic origin, predicated on the very dulling of the professed saints by that preconditioning I mentioned.

The whole lot of them, the 'prophetic' camps and their vain imaginations speaking oracles of God, "the Lord told me, is telling me, has said ..." this, that and the other. It is all pure nonsense. The language of these traitors (2 Tim above) is that which is their own, they have their own distinct vocabulary that has robbed the pure definitions of demanding words and twisted them out into their own constructs. Worse, they are added to and mocked by bringing in others and given new terminology. Everything from "marinating" in the 'spirit' to "drunk in the spirit". "Healing angels" and "Financial angels". "The apostolic", "The glory cloud", "Extreme prophetic", "slain in the spirit", "Holy laughter" and a whole separate dictionary of terminology that is crass, specious, proud, haughty ... sickening and repulsive. It is the Bob Jones and all the other associated names to numerous to mention. They are a collective sort as is evidenced by their running together to support each other, and pronounce leadership upon each other under some guise of humility or passing this construct upon themselves by laying on of hands or whatever vain thing cooked up in their fleshly, carnal minds.

They are lovers of themselves, men pleaser's, they will neither take nor give rebuke though it is called for blatantly. They are without shame and without true [i]fear[/i] of God. And I do not even mean the aspect of reverential fear, but of paralyzing fear of just who they are dealing with.

[i]For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.[/i] Isa 57:15

This is He who holds the breath of your life in His hands, who the Lord said;

[i]And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/i] Mat 10:28

[i]But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.[/i] Luk 12:5

This is no hour for joining into a contest with those who wish to make sport of the things of God and put His Sons Name to open reproach by their carnal imaginations. It seems to me it is time to make a distinction and stop the equivocating and sentimentalism of Christian niceties when there is cause for the greatest alarm over these manifestations and the sheep being led to slaughter. Where is our indignation and repulsion of soul and marrow over, our [i]pathos[/i] of spirit, our shredding of the garments of the inner man speaking out of the vocal man from the depths of our being. It is why I can not leave this well enough alone, it will not leave me alone try as I might. Jer 20:9

Dear brothers, we are all on the same side here, on the side of truth and rightousness and the unperverted gospel. Much of the bickering and hasty assumptions are the result of a faulty communication somewhere. Brothertom, I know you are zealous for gospel truth and dispelling error, and this is very good. I bless you for it, and I also believe Natan is not here to condone, tolerate or spread heresy...at least this is my impression of him. Perhaps it would be a good thing for the two of you to take this "outside the camp" into PM territory and have a prayerful heart-to-heart? I know that Brothertom is exceedingly gracious and humble and I can only hope our new friend Natan is the same. Together, this is the perfect chemistry for peacemaking.

Dear brethren, let's show the world reading these forums that we are a separate breed, a peculiar people called by His Name. If we make the effort, the Lord will enlarge our hearts, empower us for the task, and bless the results with sweet fruit.

Brother Paul

Brother Mike,

"Brother, I am almost as perplexed over these mentions as to the whole of it. Is the point of this a matter of squabbling over whether these things are verifiable or what we think of this whole blaspheming ... evangelist?, preacher? teacher?... Who is the blaspheming comic here?"

"Who is the blaspheming comic here?"

The comic is the one that Krispykrittr brought up here in this topic. And that is how he described him. This was in the same post that he accused the other man of being a pathological liar.

So what is the point? Do we get to talk about whoever we want however we want and give our opinions of them so long as we can somehow relate it to speaking out against evil? In this case, because we think they sound alike?

Krispykrittr, yes, I did bring it up, and should we go and verify your story after you wrote this...

"(If you dont know who Kinison was, just take my word for it... dont google him. He was a raunchy blaspheming comedian)"

Brother Mike, also,

"The whole lot of them, the 'prophetic' camps and their vain imaginations speaking oracles of God, "the Lord told me, is telling me, has said ..." this, that and the other. It is all pure nonsense."

Do this mean we are free to voice our opinons about them? and their motives?

Brothertom, what exactly is negative language?

[i]the following portions attributed to authors and taken from commentaries found in e-sword[/i]

Adam Clark writes in his commentary on Titus 3:2

Tit 3:2
To speak evil of no man - Μηδενα βλασφημειν· To blaspheme no person, to reproach none, to speak nothing to any man’s injury; but, on the contrary, bearing reproach and contumely with patience and meekness.

Albert Barnes writes on the same passage,

Tit 3:2
To speak evil of no man - Greek, “to blaspheme (βλασφημεῖν blasphēmein, compare the notes at Mat_9:3) no one.” Doddridge renders it, “calumniate no one.” The idea is, that we are not to slander, revile, or defame anyone. We are not to say anything to anyone, or of anyone, which will do him injury. We are never to utter anything which we know to be false about him or to give such a coloring to his words or conduct as to do him wrong in any way. We should always so speak to him and of him in such a way that he will have no reason to complain that he is an injured man. It may be necessary, when we are called to state what we know of his character, to say things which are not at all in his favor, or things which he has said or done that were wrong; but,

(1)\twe should never do this for the purpose of doing him injury, or so as to find a pleasure in it; and,

(2)\twhere it is necessary to make the statement, it should be so as to do him no injustice.

We should give no improper coloring. We should exaggerate no circumstances. We should never attempt to express ourselves about his motives, or charge on him bad motives - for we know not what his motives were. We should state every palliating circumstance of which we have knowledge, and do entire justice to it. We should not make the bad traits of his character prominent, and pass over all that is good. In a word, we should show that we would rather find him to be a good man than a bad man - even if the result should be that we had been mistaken in our opinions. It is better that we should have been mistaken, than that he should be a bad man.

John Gill writes,

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man,.... As not of one another, so not of the men of the world, to the prejudice of their names and characters, which are tender things, and ought to be gently touched; nor of magistrates, principalities, and powers, of persons in dignity and authority, which the false teachers were not afraid to speak evil of, and by their principles and practices taught others to do the same:

[b]Libel Against Luther[/b]

Similarly, the great German Reformer, [b]Martin Luther[/b], continues to be slandered to this day. Whole websites are dedicated to depicting Luther as an anti-Semite who laid the foundations for the holocaust!

The accusation that Martin Luther was an anti-Semite, responsible for massacres, reveals an ignorance of history. Luther was pro-Christ and he was zealous in evangelism. For decades he lovingly and patiently reached out to the Jewish people in his area with the Gospel. In 1523, Luther accused Catholics of being unfair to Jews in treating them [i]"as if they were dogs"[/i]. Luther was outraged and declared that such mistreatment made it even more difficult for Jews to convert to Christ.

Luther wrote [i]"I would request and advise that one deal gently with the Jews…if we really want to help them, we must be guided in our dealings with them, not by papal law, but by the Law of Christian love. We must receive them cordially, and permit them to trade and work with us, hear our Christian teaching and witness our Christian life. If some of them should prove stiff-necked, what of it? After all, we ourselves are not all good Christians either."[/i]

Fifteen years later, however, the persistent rejection of Christ and repeated blasphemies of those Jewish people in his community, provoked Luther to write: [b]"On the Jews and their Lies."[/b] In this pamphlet, Luther wrote against the [i]"madness and blindness that blasphemes Christ"[/i] in the Rabbinic teachings. Luther declared that he could not [i]"have any fellowship or patience with obstinate blasphemers and those who defame our dear Saviour."[/i] These blasphemies included describing our Lord Jesus Christ as [i]"the bastard son"[/i] of [i]"that whore Mary"[/i], and even worse. Blasphemy was a civil crime. Luther taught that to tolerate such blasphemy was to share in the guilt for it. Therefore, he proposed measures of [i]"sharp mercy"[/i] which included confiscating all Jewish literature which was blasphemous and prohibiting Rabbis to teach such blasphemy.

However, to quote these reactions of Luther without explaining their local context of opposing the repeated blasphemies of Jewish individuals in his community and then to project guilt for the continent-wide, anti-Christian holocaust of World War II upon the great 16th Century Reformer is ludicrous. How can any Christian Reformer of the 16th Century be blamed for the evils perpetrated by humanists (who clearly rejected his teachings) nearly 400 years after his death!

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24040&forum=34]When All Men Speak Well of You ~ Hammond[/url]

"Simultude" I am thinking here, in like manner with different conotations.

[i]"And I'm thinking, God, why is not the power of God moving ... He said because you have not kicked that woman in the face. And there is this older lady worshiping right in front of the platform ... and the Holy Spirit spoke to me, the gift of faith came on me and He said, kick her in the face ... with your biker boot. I inched closer and I went like this (makes a motion like a field goal kicker) "Bam!" And just as my boot made contact with her nose, she fell under the power of God."[/i]

[url=http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?cat=15]Todd Bentley’s Strange “Revival” Continues[/url]

[i]Luther taught that to tolerate such blasphemy was to share in the guilt for it.[/i]

Natan,

Slow down brother. Your sense is not what is the evidence of over five years worth of discussion here. Right now there is a great deal of uproar over this and it is warranted. Careful how you interpret intention, if a brother has apologized then you are in turn returning the same that you are accusing him of.

Regarding the Google ad's, we had a recent mention about this as well, but the gist of it is that it comes with the territory or the package that setup the search feature. It polls words and brings a response just like a regular search does. It is not an endorsement and if they point to his sites it may actually do some good, they can hear and see it for themselves rather than the seeming rebuttals that some of us are just granting opinions.

Natan4Jesus wrote:

Sermonindex hasn;t changed much, its still the haunt of self righteous, breast beating hypocrites. It took only 13 posts to re-reveal this. You can make me "anonymous" as is your wont.

Shame on you all

re-reveal???

May the Lord bless you brother. Go in peace.

that those last poisonous words of Luther did not cause pogroms, and served as a theological underpinning for hitlers satanic rampage against the Jews:

I believe Mike was just providing some context. Many read Luther’s work, On the Jews and Their Lies, without taking the historical context into consideration. I would like to add the following paragraphs taken from [url=http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/martin-luther.html]here[/url]

Luther initially preached tolerance towards the Jewish people, convinced that the reason they had never converted to Christianity was that they were discriminated against, or had never heard the Gospel of Christ. However, after his overtures to Jews failed to convince Jewish people to adopt Christianity, he began preaching that the Jews were set in evil, anti-Christian ways, and needed to be expelled from German politics. In his On the Jews and Their Lies, he repeatedly quotes the words of Jesus in Matthew 12:34, where Jesus called them "a brood of vipers and children of the devil"

Luther was zealous toward the Gospel, and he wanted to protect the people of his homeland from the Jews who he believed would be harmful influences since they did not recognize Jesus as their Saviour. In Luther's time, parents had a right and a duty to direct their children's marriage choices in respect to matters of faith. Likewise, Luther felt a duty to direct his German people to cling to the Jesus the Jews did not accept. It should be noted that church law was superior to civil law in Luther's day and that law said the penalty of blasphemy was death.

While we're at it, why dont we just take Holy Ghost swings at Benny Hinn, Joyce Meiers, Joel Osteen, Creflo Dollar, or any countless number of local empty clouds that pollute this Most Holy Faith?

Why not try a search on the site instead? All these have been discussed at length over the years and it is part of the very point I would make; that it is these and many more that have set forth the ground work for the diluting of the faith into more and more easily acceptable norms. What else can contribute to [i]Christian's[/i] actually laughing at things that ought to have caused an outrage?

I won't be around such foul and hell bound witness that masquarades as a "Christian website"..

You do not know me, you speak rashly, harshly, all done in the Name of the Lord?

[i]Sermonindex hasn;t changed much, its still the haunt of self righteous, breast beating hypocrites. It took only 13 posts to re-reveal this. You can make me "anonymous" as is your wont.

Shame on you all[/i]

Find no duplicity here?

why not? It satisfies. This righteous indignation fills us with fervor, holy fervor, it allows our blood to race and whiles away hours of boredom, right?

Or is it borne of great concern and guttural instinct that some of us have come out from underneath these very same constructs. How can you know of what you accuse if you will not take the time to investigate it?

You come in here rudely and began leveling charges, [i]I've lost count of the number of ugly attributes you have thrown my way via your ministry of confrontation.[/i] and just what is it that you believe you are doing?

It's contentious and haughty and very high-minded of you to come into a new surrounding and start dictating how things ought to be done. Read the disclaimer;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14144&forum=13&post_id=&refresh=Go]MUST READ: SermonIndex Forum Disclaimer / Community Rules[/url]

This conduct is unbecoming of any of us and needs to stop. There is no need for this to turn inward at each other.

To break off into generalities here ... If anyone is tired of hearing all this, regarding Florida and TB etc. or of discussing it, then leave it alone, there are other discussions available. The main page can only hold so much content, it pushes one post down off the bottom as one is replied to or added at the top. It's a perception issue often. Granted right now this matter is dominating and it is to be expected, it is up in our ears as it is ongoing.

Search the site. Try perusing through the Discussion Forum for other content, there are hidden gems often with zero replies. This site is vast and full of rich resources, sermons, articles, discussions.

Brothertom, [b]what exactly is negative language?[/b]

the following portions attributed to authors and taken from commentaries found in e-sword

Adam Clark writes in his commentary on Titus 3:2

Tit 3:2
To speak evil of no man - Μηδενα βλασφημειν· To blaspheme no person, to reproach none, to speak nothing to any man’s injury; but, on the contrary, bearing reproach and contumely with patience and meekness.

Albert Barnes writes on the same passage,

Tit 3:2
To speak evil of no man - Greek, “to blaspheme (βλασφημεῖν blasphēmein, compare the notes at Mat_9:3) no one.” Doddridge renders it, “calumniate no one.” The idea is, that we are not to slander, revile, or defame anyone. We are not to say anything to anyone, or of anyone, which will do him injury. We are never to utter anything which we know to be false about him or to give such a coloring to his words or conduct as to do him wrong in any way. We should always so speak to him and of him in such a way that he will have no reason to complain that he is an injured man. It may be necessary, when we are called to state what we know of his character, to say things which are not at all in his favor, or things which he has said or done that were wrong; but,

(1) we should never do this for the purpose of doing him injury, or so as to find a pleasure in it; and,

(2) where it is necessary to make the statement, it should be so as to do him no injustice.

We should give no improper coloring. We should exaggerate no circumstances. We should never attempt to express ourselves about his motives, or charge on him bad motives - for we know not what his motives were. We should state every palliating circumstance of which we have knowledge, and do entire justice to it. We should not make the bad traits of his character prominent, and pass over all that is good. In a word, we should show that we would rather find him to be a good man than a bad man - even if the result should be that we had been mistaken in our opinions. It is better that we should have been mistaken, than that he should be a bad man.

John Gill writes,

Tit 3:2 To speak evil of no man,.... As not of one another, so not of the men of the world, to the prejudice of their names and characters, which are tender things, and ought to be gently touched; nor of magistrates, principalities, and powers, of persons in dignity and authority, which the false teachers were not afraid to speak evil of, and by their principles and practices taught others to do the same:

self righteous, breast beating hypocrites.

Well, these words are a double-edged sword, one side is cutting into ourselves, and the other cutting at those with whom we are annoyed. It’s always easier to see the flaws of other side. It’s hard to see our own hypocrisy. And maybe that’s why so much of it goes on here, unchecked. It doesn’t seem evil to a large number of us. We are accustomed to it. And so healthy checks and balances are not operational here. Those who seem "obviously" unruly are quickly cocooned, even if they could help us see our hypocrisy.

Just recently a youth came to SI, for the first time, who was struggling with a sin. He wanted to gain insight regarding his concern. Most people his age wouldn’t even care about such a problem! But he cared! Bless him! But, boy did he get an earfull! He was told, essentially, that he was defiling the entire forum with words unfit for the public. In my view, he expressed sensitivity to the forum, but obviously not everybody thought so. Some were offended by the “suggestions” his words had. Perhaps it was the objectors, based on their own past, whose imagination was stirred too much, I don’t know – because I sure didn’t see any unfit words.

It wasn’t long before the entire thread got shut down, not because of anything the youth said, but because the “squeaky wheel gets the grease”. Yes, those who shouted “Pollution! We don’t want this here!” won the day. No doubt this young sinner has quickly disappeared in shame and humiliation, likely more distrustful of Christians than ever.

That incident reinforced in my mind a chronic concern. It seems that, unintentially, the first priority here is a clean-looking forum, not a struggling sinner. We don’t want to offend who? Yes, The hypocrites! The supporters, the churched folk. (I was a missionary, so can relate to that challenge!)

Now, this exact sin has plagued me for much of my life, and still haunts me. I used to be more worried about what the righteous church folk thought of me than my neighbour. Why? Because I feared rejection. I wanted to appear righteous, so that I wouldn’t get shamed. I learned to play the game, say all the right words, and hide my fears, struggles, and weaknesses. People thought I was a great Christian. The appearance of godliness was more important than the true formation of godliness (which is messy). It cost me an authentic relationship with Jesus. After all, one can’t have it both ways.

One move in this game of hypocrisy is to find others less righteous than ourselves and display them so that we can all talk about how bad THEY are. This is a great way to distract everyone, including ourselves from our own sin. This may be all fine for most Christians these days, but for those who are truly interested in revival, this is not fine.

We cannot at the same time pray for revival, when we are not willing to be obedient to the Lord – be willing to cross the road and minister to the man in the ditch, to receive the prodigal while he still stinks, to love and understand those who post here, even if we think they are wrong.

The Lord does not answer prayers where sin remains unacknowledged. May God have mercy on us all!

Diane

Just recently a youth came to SI, for the first time, who was struggling with a sin. He wanted to gain insight regarding his concern. Most people his age wouldn’t even care about such a problem! But he cared! Bless him! But, boy did he get an earfull! He was told, essentially, that he was defiling the entire forum with words unfit for the public. In my view, he expressed sensitivity to the forum, but obviously not everybody thought so. Some were offended by the “suggestions” his words had.

The public forum is simply not the place for this sort of thing - and certainly not with the kind of graphic imagery that was beginning to rear its head if we had let it run its course. The person who started the thread was given, I believe, very solid advice with consulting a pastor or someone wiser and perhaps a bit older and discreet the ways of God. PM's are here for a reason, and I would be more than happy to offer help if asked (not that I am older or wiser or any more discreet in the ways and knowledge of God than anyone else here), and I also know there are male saints here that would consider it a prayerful honor to offer some words of wisdom and grace.

But sometimes lines must be drawn, dear sister, and drawn to protect the goodwill of everyone here - men, women and children. We've all seen how sexual posts eventually deviate to become creatures of their own force and stumbling to all who read them. You also should know by now that I am very tolerant of many things here, and especially hesitant to close down discussions - in fact, that was the first post I've locked since becoming a mod - and cautious even in offering correction...because, after all, who am I? I do not take these things lightly, knowing I will answer to God for every action I do here, and every word I type.

That incident reinforced in my mind a chronic concern. It seems that, unintentially, the first priority here is a clean-looking forum, not a struggling sinner.

Brother Paul

[b]EDIT[/b] I have found the qoutation that I was looking for in this thread any questions or concerns this post following might generate can be disregarded

Brothertom,

you posted a reply to Nathan here in which you called the language that you used towards him, [b]negative language[/b].

I have twice now asked you regarding what that phrase 'negative language' means.

On going to back to find your post, so that I could qoute this here, I cannot find your post at all.

On 7/25/2008, Nathan posted to you

"..but what you basically said to me in the PM, was that you would say it all over again, including in a small group meeting, no regrets."

Where is the content of the post to which he is referring in regards to you. Where you offered the public appology that he goes on to mention?

I cannot find it after serval scans through the last few pages in this thread.

Where is it?

[i]Edited to correct an error in spelling.[/i]

I think I have found the post from Brothertom,

This is taken from his post to Mike on 2008/7/25 22:25,

Brothertom wrote,

"I believe he was wrong in his assessment and attitude, and in my confrontation of these, he was offended. My fault was the over indulgence of negative language in the doing so. I was overabrasive toward him, and in this I ask forgiveness."

Given the nature of this discussion and your prominent involvment in it, I think this is a fair question to you.

Don't mean to hijack here but I felt the need to say,

I arise today
Through a mighty strength,

God's power to guide me,
God's might to uphold me,
God's eyes to watch over me;
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to give me speech,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to shelter me,
God's host to secure me.
Thank You Lord!

The person who started the thread was given, I believe, very solid advice with consulting a pastor

Limits are understandable. But, it is also possible to go overboard because of fear that things will get out of control. And in trying to put out fires before they start, a struggling sinner is easily forgotten – and even wounded by the Body.

Also, history should teach us that those sins that we try not to talk about have a way of eventually getting proclaimed from the roof tops – and that, not by godly people!

Diane

Brothertom,

You wrote,

"John the Baptist used similar, and more biting statements, as did our Lord Jesus, both in His Earthly ministry, and through the mouths of the prophets before His incarnation, and after His incarnation to the Apostle John...especially as He spoke to Laodicea. There are possibly hundreds of such statements, and verbal indictments in the holy writ. This is God speaking, Chris."

That's right.

God is speaking.

Is God speaking through you?

I asked you before when you made a public declaration about the judgment of God upon a denomination if you were speaking for God or for yourself.

I have not, so far as I can tell, recieved an answer from you.

Are you speaking for God in the things you have and continued to write about Nathan here?

[i]edited to correct an error in spelling[/i]

Limits are understandable. But, it is also possible to go overboard because of fear that things will get out of control. And in trying to put out fires before they start, a struggling sinner is easily forgotten – and even wounded by the Body.

Also, history should teach us that those sins that we try not to talk about have a way of eventually getting proclaimed from the roof tops – and that, not by godly people!

This may have seemed “sound”

Brothertom,

You said,

"I am speaking for God as much as you are, Chris, or the hundreds of others who respond to issues out of their convictions."

and before this,

"John the Baptist used similar, and more biting statements, as did our Lord Jesus, both in His Earthly ministry, and through the mouths of the prophets before His incarnation, and after His incarnation to the Apostle John...especially as He spoke to Laodicea. There are possibly hundreds of such statements, and verbal indictments in the holy writ. This is God speaking, Chris."

Unless I have misunderstood you, you appealed to the Bible for authority to speak as you have here.

Were those men speaking out of their convictions or was God Himself speaking through them?

Is God rebuking and accusing here, or are you, out of your convictions?

Brothertom,

You asked,

"Could you honor my request, and PM me."

The words and accusations made here were all in public.

Again, unless I'm mistaken you appealed to examples in the scriptures for authority to speak as you have here.

I don't know how to be anymore clear either.

Dear Chris,

Please honor your brother's request, I think it is a good thing. Do consider this, as our Lord taught us that if a brother offends to go with him in private and work it out (Matt. 18:15). Many a brother has been gained through the PM, and your brother is offering to go there with you now.

I hesitate to post this as my information, though 100% accurate in terms of truthfulness, has not been verified with personal experience in Lakeland, but....

I am a medical guy in the Lakeland area. I have two patients who have been to the revival and they still come to me monthly for their various problems. I also have a good friend/Sunday school teacher who is open to the concepts addressed there, and the issues his family deals with that he went there for are still persisting.

As a medical type person, I like "double blind placebo controlled studies" to verify the accuracy and success of a health intervention. My limited study thus far is 3 failures for 3 attempts...

(spelling edit made their - there)

Enough already. This is getting beyond ridiculous. An apology has been made at least twice and this is turning into badgering. Some of you have your own apologies forthcoming truth be told but this whole rabbit trail is decidedly selfish over so much personal effrontery.

How is it that there is a bogging down into semantics and minuscule points ... Fuel for another rebuttal I am sure ... yet the glaring obstacle of the reproach of the Lord goes by the wayside.

Please, don't respond to this. Just move on to the matter at hand as to the original subject or hold your peace.

Thanks LogoPhilius, just in time to redirect this back to the matter at hand. Would be interesting to hear your experience in general being from the area.

Welcome to SI.

Brothertom made the following accusations about another poster:

“Your Apathy and liberal theology.."I don't worry about it. God's in control." is blatantly immature, and unchristian.”

“Sorry, but my friend, you are bound with a hateful and bitter spirit, that must leave, IF , you are to go on with the Lord.”

“Overall, this seems to be your persona as it is. It is not stable, nor conducive to edify anything or anyone except your rage. I hope you get better.”

“You gnash to devour, and that with a high degree of deceit.”

“You have been exposed, though....again. Your heart is not right…”

Right after this, Brothertom wrote the following to me:

“John the Baptist used similar, and more biting statements, as did our Lord Jesus, both in His Earthly ministry, and through the mouths of the prophets before His incarnation, and after His incarnation to the Apostle John...especially as He spoke to Laodicea. There are possibly hundreds of such statements, and verbal indictments in the holy writ. This is God speaking, Chris.”

Once again, unless I’m mistaken, this is an appeal to examples from the scripture for authority for how he has spoken here. This was done after all of these things were said, and a public apology made.

Since this appeal was made to the scriptures, I’ve asked Brothertom if he, like those he appealed to, is speaking for God. Or for himself.

I think it is relevant to question these things, and whether or not someone has demonstrated they speak with integrity and truthfulness.

Before all of this, Brothertom made the following statement:

“I personally believe that Bentley knows exactly what he is doing, and has made the transition willfully, with much blasphemy. In the end, we will see who is mocked,”

This was on the heels of a discussion between himself and Krispkrittr about a comedian that Krispykrittr described as “ a raunchy blaspheming comedian”

EDIT: In one of the qoutes above there is more in the context that I should have included so as to not imply that brothertom's comments there were refering to what directly preceeded it. Here is the qoute in fuller context:

",,,"Then Saul, who is also called Paul, looked intently at him and said;" Oh full of all deceit and fraud, You son of the Devil , you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the strait ways of the Lord?!"

Then Elymas was struck blind..ACTS 13..vs:10

John the Baptist used similar, and more biting statements, as did our Lord Jesus, both in His Earthly ministry, and through the mouths of the prophets before His incarnation, and after His incarnation to the Apostle John...especially as He spoke to Laodicea. There are possibly hundreds of such statements, and verbal indictments in the holy writ. This is God speaking, Chris."

(in response to chrssk, gosh, what does that name mean? Sorry, I ain't figured how to quote and stuff yet...)
To be honest, I skipped reading when it got into all the bickering. :-P (EDIT: Sorry, bickering isn't an appropriate word. I should have said in response to the Mod with the funny name that I skipped most of the conflict as it didn't concern me because my thoughts regarded the original post. Sorry to diminish the conflict at hand, but know that it doesn't concern people like me, who are not involved) I figured it wasn't my fight, and I'd keep out of it. then I pondered whether my Bentley blast was worth posting, for it wasn't entirely edifying, but it does let me express a frustration I have, for I have a heart/desire for understanding about true biblical healing and how it works.

There is a whole lot of healing going on in the NT, and I understand general cessationist doctorine, but there are enough rumors of healings that go on in the world today that at least warrants an objective observation to verify their truthfulness. As the Bentley case demonstrates, verification is challenging at best.

I am not an ardent pursuer of the truth of healing, but in my mind currently there is a desire to do a word search on healing in the Word, and then to cross reference with some other verses, such as Proverbs which reads (this is the GlenNIV, or KingGlenn'sVersion as many of the folks on this site prefer...) that envy is rottenness to the bones (I'll look up the actual verse later) and perhaps gives evidence as to the source of things such as osteoporosis or osteoarthritis. Thus (if my quoting is accurate), dealing with the sin of envy may lead to healing of those conditions (concievably). This is a risky approach to take, but it is an approach that this bloke in Georgia takes... I forget his name... Henry Wright. Wright wrote (hehe, I like saying that: Wright wrote) a book called "Be In Health" and is another ministry that focuses on healing from the perspective of healing being hampered by our sin, and the root to healing is in sanctification. I think I'm digressing. yeah, I'm certainly digressing. That's probalby another post in the making.

I don't know if that makes sense, but it is what it is. As a medical guy in the area with several of my patients attending the revival, I haven't seen any healing, but I suppose if they were healed, then they wouldn't be coming to me, would they?

What's a good percentage to expect from a faith healer? 50% success? I always wondered that. If medicines cannot demonstrate more than 70% success, they rarely come to market. i wonder if we can force that on faith healers too? Hmm.... FDA guidelines on faith healing. That would be a fun task force to head up.

Brother Paul,

I do not feel comfortable discussing this in private.

If you and other moderators wish for me to leave this discussion, I will.

Thank you.

Again, I feel you might be missing the point

I won’t go back over my earlier words, but will leave my burden in God’s hands. He can do a far better job with his people than I can.

I will consider this a lesson learned.

Blessings,

Diane

If you and other moderators wish for me to leave this discussion, I will.

Please show some humility now and stop this behavior. Play the ball, and not the man...as the old maxim goes. You are both dear brothers here; it is grevious you cannot reconcile this thing and put it to rest.

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God." Good to witness this on SI.

This Todd Bentley seems to be "powerful" indeed, even on SI, robbing so much peace amongst brethren here. I for one, have no clue who he is and has no desire to learn of him one bit, but this I know, our Christ is far more powerful,let not His enemies disrupt our peace, all that's been said and exposed are by now surely well learned and understood.

While we all think we speak for God at times, it's easy to let the flesh get hold of us before we seek the help of the Spirit to do so.

ChrisJD, I have much respect for you throughout my time of SI.., all is well...charity never fails..

I'm so thankful and "proud" to see this other thread locked. Praise God so much, Christ's holiness has been upheld, what a testimony.

don't want to know much of anything but more and more of Christ..till that Day

thanks
mamaluk

edit: sorry,brother Paul didnt realize you were posting on this too, my apologies, delete if you see fit

Brother Paul,

My issue is not with Brothertom personally.

I think this is an issue of the integrity of these forums in general.

"We are living testaments to the Truth, not supposed to be, but in truth and spirit, we are the outworking of Him. "I am the way, the truth and the light." Our very words carry the weight and responsibility of either our authenticity or our duplicity.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Mat 12:37

Even our shortcomings and failures are testament if we are always at the ready to confess and correct and be corrected. We have nothing in and of ourselves to defend save the Lords testimony and our humility is so great an opportunity to present Jesus as Lord, as Truth, as the only Way, that it is to our shame that we are not more forthcoming in our failure to be ever more presently honest.

We therefore will continue to test all things. 1Th 5:21

The world is watching."

- Mike Balog, from the thread 'Testing all things on Sermonindex'

From Krispy

"The devil is just as much in the business of religion today as God, and the only way we can discern the difference is by comparing all teaching and practice to the Bible. In The Pentecostal-Charismatic Movements: The History and the Error, we document the phoniness that has characterized the ministries of Kathryn Kuhlman, Aimee Semple McPherson, William Branham, A.A. Allen, Jack Coe, Oral Roberts, Derek Prince, Charles Price, John Wimber, Charles and Frances Hunter, Benny Hinn, and many others."

It amazes me that many of you don't seem to get upset when men of God that were used of God in healings, signs and wonders are lied about, and at the same time throughout this whole discussion that you talk so much about Todd Bentley, and demonstrate such a un Christ like attitude among yourselves.

Brethren God created the angels, God also created the angel now called Satan. God created Todd Bentley and God created us brethren on SI.

We can jump up and down and scream at each other over the devil but He still want just go away because God is not going to put Him away just yet.

We can jump up and down and scream at each other over Todd Bentley but He still want just go away because God is letting Him live and do what he is doing until whenever.

We can let things that we don’t have any control over divide us and God will let that happen also for ever how long but is God being glorified in all of this.

Jesus said they will know you are my disciples because you have loved one to another.

A greater harm than Todd Bentley is allowing anything to divide the one’s who are suppose to Love the Lord the most and also love one another.

The only one laughing on this thread is the devil because he loves for Christians to hurt one another.

The devil doesn’t care if you go see, approve or not approve of Todd Bentley as long as he can pit brother against brother and he loves to have it this way.

What good is our point of view if the devil is in it by our hardness and unloving spirit toward one another? It is a sad day when we had rather be right with our point of view over another brother’s point of view than have the right attitude of love.

The apostles disagreed at times but they kept the right spirit. I don’t read where they lost a Christ like attitude toward one another over another false teacher they didn’t have any control over.

Brethren for the sake of Jesus Christ let’s be kind to one another and forgive one another quickly and give no place to the devil.

Blessings brethren!

No brother ...

This is not about any of those things. It is not about a point of view or an opinion or personal effrontery. It is not about whether Jesus called Herod a fox if He had a 'right spirit' about Him when He did so (to put it to illustration). It is not about a band wagon of who is amened or taken to task over speaking out about what is a mockery and blaspheming of Jesus Christ. The later it is without equivocation and not a hundred 'what abouts'. It is not about getting bogged down into a thousand lesser things and coming to each others rescue over how many postings and how we should just stop talking about it. All this hair splitting ...

If anyone is tired of of talking about it, then the recourse is there to not do so. This has been parsed and sliced into tiny bits of pieces that have drawn off the atrocities into all this commotion. It is not about being nice and it is not about not being nice. It is about the root of the matter and to warn as well as expose that which should not be swept under a rug somewhere.

There is more outrage it seems over the minutiae than over what is actually taking place. The man is a liar and he is leading many astray, there will be ramifications from all this years later not at all unlike his forerunners. A brother here spoke of this very thing when these men come through town and leave the wreckage in their wake for the local pastors to deal with. Which is now what he is set about to do, to go and bring this all elsewhere. We have been dealing with the fallout for years here on SI with the same types of responses that are being forwarded here ...

That is whereby some of us will come along and try to smooth things over and in effect end up clogging the artery rather than help clear it of debris. I know of this because I am guilty and have been guilty of the same, but again, this is not about my personal peccadillo's and I would pray that we could stop with them altogether. This is an outrage that is taking place right before our very eyes. Listen to these men of God that are promoted on this site. Hear their urgency and passion for the things of God. Even the term revival is at stake. Here we are attempting to both promote and pray for a true revival and awakening and the very word is being dragged down through the gutter by this counterfeit manifestation and ungodly circus that is taking place. It is a circus! It does not resemble anything remotely that the scriptures nor the Lord of them teaches, exhorts or practices by precedence, character or intention.

It is not a heresy hunt, the hunt has come to our ears and we would be advised to shut them according to some, but that is not what the scriptures portray whatsoever. Moreover, it is so overt that it is now making the ones preceding it pale by way of comparison. How far must it yet go before we raise a collective voice against it?

In the 5 some odd years here we have had just about everything under the sun gone through in a variety of expression, often quite heated; Calvinism vs. Arminianism, KJV vs ______, OSAS, women teaching and just what constitutes a 'prophet' in our day. This present situation is not foreign either as was mentioned, yet I am taken back a bit by those who know better would allow this to bog down into personal constructs and waring of language ...

It is a crime and high treason these things. Blasphemy. The Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord, your Lord. Tell me, is not more painful to hear those who profess to love Him to so disrespect Him and attribute things to his conduct and character, even purporting to tell us that he He Himself is telling this deceived fellow the things he is reporting. Is it not easier on the spirit to hear the unbelievers of the world speak against the Son of Man in their ignorance, and that which is forgivable than this ... ?

And what of them? Those who have so many varied ideas and quasi notions to begin with as the state of the church has slid down this unbelievable path it is going. Do we have no care for her? No pathos or heartbreak or ... weeping. The unbelievers of the world have now an excuse before them where they should have none.

I could go on and on but maybe it would be better to just try and point us to a man who has far greater understanding than most all of us, who has been at this for some 50 years to get an understanding on revival.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=7422]Nature of Revival - Part 1[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=7423]Nature of Revival - Part 2 [/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?op=&cid=279] Richard Owen Roberts[/url]

And for a real, needed perspective not directly related to all that is current but is present nonetheless and might shake us all up a bit;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=462]Darrell Champlin[/url]

Anything at all will suffice from this man of God, recommend all of them.

A while back there was a thread aksing for people to pray for Sermonindex started by Greg.

I think that this would be a great time to pray against the trickery of Satan and the wickedness in our own hearts, mine included, while praying for this ministry (SI).

Please join with me in praying for unity among the saints here and that our differences that we fight about would become like water under a bridge.

Blessings to all posters in this thread. :-)

crsschk wrote,

"It is a crime and high treason these things. Blasphemy. The Lord Jesus Christ. Our Lord, your Lord. Tell me, is not more painful to hear those who profess to love Him to so disrespect Him and attribute things to his conduct and character, even purporting to tell us that he He Himself is telling this deceived fellow the things he is reporting. Is it not easier on the spirit to hear the unbelievers of the world speak against the Son of Man in their ignorance, and that which is forgivable than this ... ?"

[i]"I am speaking for God as much as you are, Chris, or the hundreds of others who respond to issues out of their convictions. Every teacher or writer in the Index does also. I suppose we have a right, or an obligation to do so."

“Your Apathy and liberal theology.."I don't worry about it. God's in control." is blatantly immature, and unchristian.”

“Sorry, but my friend, you are bound with a hateful and bitter spirit, that must leave, IF , you are to go on with the Lord.”

“Overall, this seems to be your persona as it is. It is not stable, nor conducive to edify anything or anyone except your rage. I hope you get better.”

“You gnash to devour, and that with a high degree of deceit.”

“You have been exposed, though....again. Your heart is not right…”

“I personally believe that Bentley knows exactly what he is doing, and has made the transition willfully, with much blasphemy. In the end, we will see who is mocked,”[/i]

Crssck also wrote elsewhere,

"Probably the greatest of all strife and confusion right here. There is an adamancy towards being truthful and factual that will not waver in these discussions throughout this forum. It is not up for discussion or challenge as to holding each other accountable. Just here is where many things get well off track and presumptions displace concern, even motivation.

What we have seen too often is rebelling against the test of authenticity due to an assumption that by doing so then casts all things associated into negative light, hence the baby and the bath water.

It is both useless and foolish to carry this approach about us any longer. We have often gone around in circles wasting everyones energies in the process trying to explain just 'what we do not mean'.

There are well intentioned people, saints even that do get things flatly wrong. That does not make them anything other than incorrect, though in some cases there is also a pragmatism that can chisel away at the credibility if not out right demolish the whole structure.

The point?

Get your facts straight. If you cannot and feel that you must present a possibility, an opinion, an observation, just be sure to call it that and leave off the injurious and accusatory towards those who are calling all things into question as to their factuality, their authenticity."

[b][color=330000]there is also a pragmatism that can chisel away at the credibility if not out right demolish the whole structure.[/color][/b]

End Qoute.

ChrisJD

You know what I would do? I would continually pray at the same time as voicing a few (not continously many) of my concerns here.
My prayers would go something like this.

Lord, I'm troubled by this strive that is going on in SermonIndex. I've tried to tackle it my way but it doesn't seem to work. Lord, my eyes are only to you. Tell me how I can help or is it your will for me just to pray and remain silent.

I just want to follow You. Show me Your will and give me strength, peace and grace to carry out what you want me to do. Pour in me Your love to forgive them. Help me repent of any sins that I may have committed. Also, please touch the hearts of others here so that they will also look to You for guidance. Please help to bring peace to Sermonindex. Amen

A good Christian book that I would recommend is Corrie Ten Boom's trilogy consisting of The Hiding Place, In my father's house and Tramp for the Lord. I've been greatly blessed by the book.

I copied these from an ex-catholic website (author is Mary Ann Collins) as I found it very edifying. I will post them here since this thread has turned to so much strife.

1)
Your Word brings life to save my soul
Your Truth brings light to make me whole

Your perfect love casts out my fears
Comforts me and dries my tears

I'm in the shadow of Your wings
Where you teach my heart to sing

Safe and secure from all alarm,
Your faithful love keeps me from harm

I will bless You all my days
You fill my heart with songs of praise

2)
Jesus, I want to know You. Please reveal Yourself to me and make the Bible come alive for me. I want to be clean and start over again. Please forgive my sins. Wash them away and set me free. I want to live right. Please change my heart. Help me love what You love and turn away from things that displease You. You know what's best for me. I want to do things Your way. Please be the Lord of my life. Teach me to love the way You love. Help me to be faithful to You. Thank you for loving me and for hearing this prayer. Thank you for being my Lord and my Saviour

The Wisdom from Above: James 3

13 ¶ Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him show out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

Brothertom made the following accusations about another poster:

Right after this, Brothertom wrote the following to me:

Before all of this, Brothertom made the following statement:

[i]My issue is not with Brothertom personally.[/i]

It most certainly is and I will not stand for this any longer. Now I must be dragged down into the pit of all this personal peevishness and step in between brothers ...

One last time. This is a great diversion from the facts of the matter, it is no longer about exaggerated claims, lies or a man who purports to kick old ladies in the face because the [i]devil[/i] told him to do so. None of this means anything.

Now the issue centers around 'names':

Natan4Jesus
ChrisJD
Brothertom

And others coming in to smooth off the rough edges and make the outrageousness of antics, teaching and demoniacally influenced happenings more palpable.

I am not about to defend anybody at the expense of another despite the appearance or neglect of having done so. I will add my own foolish name to the list for not stepping in earlier at certain junctures. Tom was outline, Natan was out of line and Chris you are out of line to continue heaping up stones after an apology.

The attempts to redirect this away from the peevish, childish, personal offendeness between brothers and back to the matter at hand has failed.

What makes us think we are of any respect of persons to take such innocuous things to heart and are injured by them? It sounds like the whine of babies rather than the soldiers of the cross, denying themselves, denying their precious little reputations and guarding their fragile dispositions so easily injured. Listen to yourselves! All the while the Saviour's Name is being reproached, blasphemed and the sheep are led astray, laughing all the way.

Grow up.

This thread will be locked, it is now completely off the subject.