Romans 8:1-2 says, "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death."
Can someone explain what the law of the Spirit of life is?
How is the Holy Spirit a law?
The law of the Spirit here is the power of grace. Paul terms it a law to compare its power to to that of another law - the law of sin and death. Both are laws, both are dynamics, but one law is able to supercede the other. Just as the law of aerodynamics supercedes the law of gravity, so the law of the Holy Spirit supercedes the law of sin and death. Supercession, in this case, means to liberate from, to overpower, to triumph over. Sin (or gravity, for example) shall not have dominion over you, because you are no longer under the law (under the influence of gravity) but under grace (under the law of aerodynamics).
When we walk in the Spirit, we are able to overcome the lusts of the flesh. Here we see one law, or power, overcoming another. It's like being in an airplane, soaring at 35,000 feet. By virtue of you being [i]in[i]out
Hope this helps. Compare Romams 6:14 with Romans 8:13, and then compare them both with Gal. 5:16-18.
Law, as it is used in this sense; refers to
government. When the Spirit of God governs
your life; you are free from the power of sin!!
Psalm 17
4 \tConcerning the works of men,
\tBy the word of Your lips,
\tI have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.
This testimony is representative of the law of the Spirit of Life at work.
In Christ
Jeff
Well said, Paul!
Here's something from Poul Madsen on the subject that you might find helpful...
This is what lies behind Paul's expression: "the law of the Spirit of life" (v.2). From his own experience, he speaks of your standing in a court of law opposed by an accuser (sin) which has all the arguments on its side and, being unable to offer a defence, you await with horror the apparently inevitable death sentence. Then Christ steps forward and presents your case. You are acquitted, indeed you are fully justified, and you are led out of the court not to be executed but to live -- you are "justified unto life" (5:18). It is like being led from hell to heaven, from despair to joy, from darkness to the light of a new life. This new life is filled by the Spirit of God which means that it is now ruled by a new law, a new power, which is the direct opposite of the old law of sin and death. So in this context it is obvious that when he uses the word "law" Paul does not refer to a code of regulations but to a new principle of life which applies spontaneously.
In accord with this, his words in verse 4 about God condemning sin in the flesh, do not speak of the ordinance of the law being fulfilled by us, but rather in us "who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit". Note the evangelical form of the words! He does not write that the demand of the law is fulfilled by us if we do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Such a statement would cast man back upon himself and disturb him with doubts and fears. The evangelical fact is that we no longer live after the flesh (v.9. See also 7:5), and therefore, thanks to the work of Christ for us, we do not walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. This method of expression avoids turning the reader in upon himself and makes him glad and confident as he walks in simple faith and confidence in the Lord. Everything from beginning to end is the work of God for him in Christ Jesus. That is the gospel!
-from [i]Chapter by Chapter Through Romans
In Christ,
Ron
This is another testimony given to us as an example of living according to the law of the Spirit...
Jer. 7:23 But this is what I commanded them, saying, “Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and you shall be My people. And walk in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well with you.’
In Christ
Jeff
So how does a person eneter in to this law to actually it in reality?
So how does a person eneter in to this law to actually it in reality?
Psalm 32:
3 \tWhen I kept silent, my bones grew old
\tThrough my groaning all the day long.
4 \tFor day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
\tMy vitality was turned into the drought of summer.
God's Holy Spirit was heavy upon this man's life...
Then....
5 \tI acknowledged my sin to You,
\tAnd my iniquity I have not hidden.
\tI said, “I will confess my transgressions to the LORD,”
\tAnd You forgave the iniquity of my sin.
This same precept is found in Job 33:
15 \tIn a dream, in a vision of the night,
\tWhen deep sleep falls upon men,
\tWhile slumbering on their beds,
16 \tThen He opens the ears of men,
\tAnd seals their instruction.
17 \tIn order to turn man from his deed,
\tAnd conceal pride from man,
18 \tHe keeps back his soul from the Pit,
\tAnd his life from perishing by the sword.
19 \t“Man is also chastened with pain on his bed,
\tAnd with strong pain in many of his bones,
20 \tSo that his life abhors bread,
\tAnd his soul succulent food.
21 \tHis flesh wastes away from sight,
\tAnd his bones stick out which once were not seen.
22 \tYes, his soul draws near the Pit,
\tAnd his life to the executioners.
The result of God's working through His Holy Spirit brings this to those ....
24 \tThen He is gracious to him, and says,
\t“Deliver him from going down to the Pit;
\tI have found a ransom’;
25 \tHis flesh shall be young like a child’s,
\tHe shall return to the days of his youth.
26 \tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
\tHe shall see His face with joy,
\tFor He restores to man His righteousness.
27 \tThen he looks at men and says,
\t“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
\tAnd it did not profit me.’
28 \tHe will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
\tAnd his life shall see the light.
29 \t“Behold, God works all these things,
\tTwice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 \tTo bring back his soul from the Pit,
\tThat he may be enlightened with the light of life.
There is therefore no condemnation for those who are "enlightened with the light of life."
In Christ
Jeff
Pro 2:1 ¶ My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, [and] apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, [and] liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as [for] hid treasures;
Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.
Pro 2:6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth [cometh] knowledge and understanding.
Pro 2:7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: [he is] a buckler to them that walk uprightly.
Pro 2:8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints.
Pro 2:9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; [yea], every good path.
Pro 2:10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;
Pro 2:11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee:
When Solomon asked for wisdom, by what means did God convey His wisdom to Solomon?
This is the means by which all can know God and be delivered from condemnation. This is the law of the Spirit which gives us the light of life.
In Christ
Jeff
Reply to PaulWest
Yes, thanks indeed.
Revelation 21
1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9. And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11. Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12. And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13. On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
15. And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
16. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
17. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
18. And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
19. And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
20. The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
21. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
27. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Eddie
Pro 8:1 ¶ Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
Pro 8:2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
Pro 8:3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.
Pro 8:4 Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice [is] to the sons of man.
Pro 8:5 O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.
Pro 8:6 Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips [shall be] right things.
Pro 8:7 For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8 All the words of my mouth [are] in righteousness; [there is] nothing froward or perverse in them.
Pro 8:9 They [are] all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.
Pro 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.
Pro 8:11 For wisdom [is] better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.
Pro 8:12 ¶ I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.
Pro 8:13 The fear of the LORD [is] to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Pro 8:14 Counsel [is] mine, and sound wisdom: I [am] understanding; I have strength.
In this section of Scripture we are again given the exhortation to,"Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips [shall be] right things."
The law of the Spirit is centered in this promise..."for I will speak..."
How else can man escape the bindings of Satan?
In Christ
jeff
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------So how does a person eneter in to this law to actually it in reality?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 32:
3 When I kept silent, my bones grew old
Through my groaning all the day long.
4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
My vitality was turned into the drought of summer.
There's no hope for us, however, without considering the first two verses of this Psalm:
Psalm 32
1Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.
Blessed are those who are forgiven and imputed with Christ's righteousness, seemingly "prophesied" here. David and Job hadn't have what we have. David and Job walked by faith or by the aid of the [i]external
I really appreciate this thread and have always wanted to learn more of it, not so much so from writings or sermons, perhaps from brethren's real experiences or applications of this "walk" in the spirit in their lives.
Margaret
I used to know someone who said that a person had no aces up his sleeve to impress God.
Well I know that I do not even have any 2's. I really do not even have any cards. I have nothing and I always will have nothing.
My ONLY is appeal is for God's Grace, Mercy and Goodness.
Well I know that I do not even have any 2's. I really do not even have any cards. I have nothing and I always will have nothing.
But we do have more than we will ever need. we have Christ! By our faith in Christ, and obedience to His Word, we are [i]obeying
The law of Spirit of life, is law perhaps in a sense that it must be obeyed in order for the child of God to produce It's beautiful fruit. While the law of sin and death, when obeyed, produces death and corruption.
We all know that the Bible is full of instructions of how to walk in this Spirit. I guess I was hoping to be reading some brothers/sisters' testimonies in such a walk suggested on my last post.
On SI, we read so much of our confessions of failures and sins, on the other hand, of all kinds of ministries of this or that sort..I thought that if we can share our testimonies in how we walk in the Spirit, however insignificant the walks might seem to be, could perhaps bring a bit glory to God, encouragement and joy to each other. Surely we can never "impress" God with anything but our precious Christ, or do we look to impress each other with anything, but to share how God's grace and mercy help us with our walk can be exhorting us towards God a bit?
Oh well, just a thought.
Margaret
Sister Margaret wrote:
There's no hope for us, however, without considering the first two verses of this Psalm:
I believe the writer of this Psalm was actually testifying of how blessed it is to know that one's sins are not imputed and "in whose spirit is no deceit."
The writer testifies how the Lord brought him to his knees. The writer testifies about what he discovered when he finally repented and cried out to God. The only way this occurs according to Scripture, is by the power of the Holy Spirit.
All Scripture declares His way...the ancient path...
Paul exhorts the Ephesians...
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God."
The sword of the Spirit is the word of God...and therefore it is the means by which God has determined that we can know the path of life. Only by feeding on the word and hearing what it is saying to our hearts do we begin to recognize His voice. The OT Scriptures reveal how the Holy Spirit changes man....
In Christ
Jeff
From: "The Normal Christian Life"
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death” (Rom. 8:2).
Why is there no more condemnation? “For ...”: there is a reason for it; there is something definite to account for it. The reason is that there is a law called “the law of the Spirit of life” and it has proved stronger than another law called ‘the law of sin and death”. What are these laws? How do they operate? And what is the difference between sin and the law of sin, and between death and the law of death?
First let us ask ourselves, What is a law? Well, strictly speaking, a law is a generalization examined until it is proved that there is no exception. We might define it more simply as something which happens over and over again. Each time the thing happens it happens in the same way. We can illustrate this both from statutory and from natural law. For example, in this land, if I drive a car on the right hand side of the road the traffic police will stop me. Why? Because it is against the law of the land. If you do it you will be stopped too. Why? For the same reason that I would be stopped: it is against the law and the law makes no exceptions. It is something which happens repeatedly and unfailingly. Or again, we all know what is meant by gravity. If I drop my handkerchief in London it falls to the ground. That is the effect of gravity. But the same is true if I drop it in New York or Hong Kong. No matter where I let it go, gravity operates, and it always produces the same results. Whenever the same conditions prevail the same effects are seen. There is thus a ‘law’ of gravity.
Now what of the law of sin and death? If someone passes an unkind remark about me, at once something goes wrong inside me. That is not law; that is sin. But it, when different people pass unkind remarks, the same ‘something’ goes wrong inside, then I discern a law within—a law of sin. Like the law of gravity, it is something constant. It always works the same way. And so too with the law of death. Death, we have said, is weakness produced to its limit. Weakness is ‘I cannot’. Now if when I try to please God in this particular matter I find I cannot, and if when I try to please Him in that other thing I again find I cannot, then I discern a law at work. There is not only sin in me but a law of sin; there is not only death in me but a law of death.
Then again, not only is gravity a law in the sense that it is constant, admitting of no exception, but, unlike the rule of the road, it is a ‘natural’ law and not the subject of discussion and decision but of discovery. The law is there, and the handkerchief ‘naturally’ drops by itself without any help from me. And the “law” discovered by the man in Romans 7:23 is just like that. It is a law of sin and of death, opposed to that which is good, and crippling the man’s will to do good. He ‘naturally’ sins according to the “law of sin” in his members. He wills to be different, but that law in him is relentless and no human will can resist it. So this brings me to the question, How can I be set free from the law of sin an death? I need deliverance from sin, and still more do I need deliverance from death, but most of all I need deliverance from the law of sin and of death. How can I be delivered from the constant repetition of weakness and failure? In order to answer this question let us follow out our two illustration further.
One of our great burdens in China used to be the likin tax, a law which none could escape, originating in the Ch’in Dynasty and operating right down to our own day. It was an inland tax on the transit of goods, applied throughout the empire and having numerous barriers for collection, and officers enjoying very large powers. The result was that the charge on goods passing through several provinces might become very heavy indeed. But a few years ago a second law came into operation which set aside the likin law. Can you imagine the feelings of relief in those who had suffered under the old law? Now there was no need to think or hope or pray; the new law was already there and had delivered us from the old law. No longer was there need to think beforehand what one would say if one met a likin officer tomorrow!
And as with the law of the land, so it is with natural law. How can the law of gravity be annulled? With regard to my handkerchief that law is at work clearly enough, pulling it down, but I have only to place my hand under the handkerchief and it does not drop. Why? The law is still there. I do not deal with the law of gravity; in fact I cannot deal with the law of gravity. Then why does my handkerchief not fall to the ground? Because there is a power keeping it from doing so. The law is there, but another law superior to it is operation to overcome it, namely the law of life. Gravity can do its utmost but the handkerchief will not drop, because another law is working against the law of gravity to maintain it there. We have all seen the tree which was once a small seed fallen between the slabs of a paving, and which has grown until heavy stone blocks have been lifted by the power of the life within it. That is what we mean by the triumph of one law over another.
In just such a manner God delivers us from one law by introducing another law. The law of sin and death is there all the time, but God has put another law into operation - the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, and that law is strong enough to deliver us from the law of sin and death. You see, it is a law of life in Christ Jesus—the resurrection life that in Him has met death in all its forms and triumphed over it (Eph. 1:19, 20). The Lord Jesus dwells in our hearts in the person of His Holy Spirit, and if we let Him have a clear way and commit ourselves to Him we shall find that He will keep us from the old law. We shall learn what it is to be kept, not by our own power, but “by the power of God” (1 Peter 1:5).
Brother Mike wrote:
Weakness is ‘I cannot’. Now if when I try to please God in this particular matter I find I cannot, and if when I try to please Him in that other thing I again find I cannot, then I discern a law at work. There is not only sin in me but a law of sin; there is not only death in me but a law of death.
This is true...
Therefore God must make a provision which "enables" us to please Him...
The writer of Psalm 119 also recognized this so therefore he prays to God to enable him to overcome the law of sin and death...
ie...
Psa 119:18 Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
Psa 119:27 Make me to understand the way of thy precepts: so shall I talk of thy wondrous works.
Psa 119:29 Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
These are just a few examples of the law of the Spirit which enables this man to please God...
In Christ
Jeff
Tremendous message (by George H. Warnock) on the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus here on SI at https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1913
I have been studying these very Scriptures and wanted to share what the Lord helped me understand about these things:
In John 5, Jesus healed the man at the Pool of Siloam who'd been sick for 38 years. Because He did this on the Sabbath day, the religious crowd were all upset and accusing Him of breaking the law. They sought to kill Him because He was yielding His vessel to the Father who lived in Him and the Father wanted this man healed. He said the works He did, it was the Father in Him doing them. He admits He can do nothing of Himself, but it is the Father (Joh_5:19). But they don't understand, or want to hear. They know the letter that kills with religion, but not the Spirit that gives the letter life. They won't hear and He says you investigate and examine the Scriptures, because you think by reading the Scriptures you get eternal life. Doesn't James tell us in his writing it's not the hearer that is justified, but the doer of the Word?? And didn't Jesus say in Luke 6 the one who heard His sayings and did them was the one who built on the rock and when the storm rose his house (himself) would stand and not fall into ruin? He says you search the Scriptures, because you think doing so gives you eternal life and they written to point you to Me but you won't come to Me that you might possess My life. The only real life is His. When we are connected (abiding in Him) to Him, through having our own personal relationship with HIM, we are plugged into the Life Source. If we come to Him to learn of and from HIM and we are willing to lay aside our traditions received of men, and be taught, we will behold Him and in beholding HIM, coming to understand Him, and know Him ourselves, we are then changed from our image into HIS. (2Co_3:18) This is another work of the Holy Spirit-to reveal to the hungry heart who Christ is. How can we be like One we do not know? It's impossible.
He says in Joh_6:53 if we don't eat His Word (which was made flesh) and drink of His blood, (the Holy Spirit) we have no life in us. That tells me reading the Word alone is not enough. I must have the Holy Spirit in me, living the life of Jesus Christ and empowering me to overcome the self I was born into. Consider this: The Word was with the Father from the beginning. He was able to move freely and be everywhere anytime, and was without limits or boundaries, as is the Holy Spirit, today. He submitted to a cage-flesh, for 33 1/2 years. Our spirits are eternal and they are caged by corrupt and unreliable flesh which is driven by destructive impulses and behaviors. The Word and the Spirit work together to free us from these. The law of the Spirit is CHRIST'S Life in us which makes us free.
He said you shall know the Truth (which is the Word which was made flesh-Jesus Christ) and ye shall be FREE. Whom the SON makes free is free indeed! So what if we are born again and we read our Bibles but we still struggle with carnality and flesh? All I know is if the Word says the law of the Spirit of life (Rom 8:2) which is Christ's life which makes us free from the earthly things of this world that would keep us in bondage to this world and its ways, then that is what it means. If that is not my experience yet (and it's not, but I'm seeing it in the Word, He is showing me things to come as I dig in these Scriptures) then I must LOOK UNTO JESUS in total dependence on Him to finish this work in my life, and be willing to lay down anything I have to so I can have more of the Holy Spirit and less of self. I must decrease so He can increase in me. The more I make room for HIM by rejecting and denying the things in my self life that hinder Him, the more He will come until I am filled. As He lives in me, He teaches me how to walk in the Spirit, like I taught my children how to stand on their feet and walk when they were babies.
As He begins His prayer, John 17:3, He says this is eternal life that they may KNOW THEE, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou has sent. Consider what it means to know Him. It is possible to know all about Him from reading this Bible, but never meet Him personally. This word in the Greek is ginosko and it means to know absolutely, with certainty, through experience and intimacy, as a husband knows his wife. Through this knowing, this intimacy, they understand and are sure of each other. This is not a head knowledge. Jesus Christ is telling us in John 17:3 that eternal life is intimate relationship with the Father, and the Son, through the Holy Spirit. It's spending time with Him, in His Word, in His presence, praying about what you read in this Book, bringing it to Him and asking for understanding. Not for religion's sake but because you just want to know HIM because the more you know the more you will love Him and you won't dare want to grieve or bring reproach on Him by misrepresenting HIM. You will learn what it means when Psalms 16:11 tells you "He will show us the path (way) of life; In His presence is fullness of joy and at His right hand are pleasures forevermore." Spend time with Him, you get direction, understanding, strength, peace, joy, rest, hope, life. HE IS your life. HE IS everything. HE is our source. We are just empty vessels unless we stay connected to HIM.
YES, it is a struggle. The world, the flesh and the devil will all work together to distract and keep us from prayer, communion with HIM, and the Word which is our meat-our daily bread. You know, He said communion was eating the Bread of life, and drinking the wine of the Holy Spirit. We can do that privately as well as corporately in remembrance and in fellowship with Him. He fed communion or the last supper to the disciples. He fed them the passover lamb-and HE is our Passover Lamb. His Word is what He wants to feed us and He wants us to be willing to get over and let go of ourselves so He can give us rivers of living waters-that precious HOLY GHOST who is the almighty power of Almighty GOD working in us to bring us to a place where we are willing to be separated from any and everything BUT HIM. (Php_2:13)
His life being lived out by the power of the Spirit in us, heals us and makes us whole. (Rom_5:10). There's no penalty, no sentence of damnation to those who have taken their fixed position in Jesus Christ-by agreeing to the destruction of their self-will and embracing HIS will. They don't follow the demands of their minds or their selfish desires any longer. They have seen and known HIM and now they are learning how to walk IN Him. The law of the Holy Spirit of Christ who lives in me liberates me and delivers me from everything that would destroy me. (Rom_8:1-2) Every destructive thought, behavior, addiction, He cuts me loose from these things because He empowers me to yield all I am to Him. When you embrace LIFE you reject death. You can't serve yourself and the Lord, too. It's one or the other.
The law of the spirit of life is more than a principle or a law. It is in essence the testimony of Jesus. The law part speaks of surety. It is what Jesus operated in. It is what gives us surety to see signs and wonders follow us. This law enables a man to walk in faith,not experimentally,to hope for a miracle,but now has become a law. This is how we can know that it is the backing and guarantee to us the believer to operate in the anointing given to us,
Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
The creation of God came through words or commands.
"let there be light" or literally "light be"
This is the law of the spirit of life.
Jesus didnt hope the sun would form. There is a law that prevents the sun from NOT forming.
Humanly we think"gee I hope something happens when I lay hands on this person."
But after moving into the law of the spirit of life , things change. Everything becomes different. It is now not "my laying on of hands"
I am simply moving in what the apostles and Jesus moved in.
Galatians 3:5
5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
David
The law of the spirit of life is more than a principle or a law. It is in essence the testimony of Jesus. The law part speaks of surety. It is what Jesus operated in.[b]It is what gives us surety to see signs and wonders follow us.[/b] This law enables a man to walk in faith,not experimentally,[b]to hope for a miracle,[/b] but now has become a law. This is how we can know that it is the backing and guarantee to us the believer[b]to operate in the anointing[/b] given to us,
No, this is deception and has nothing to do with the law of the Spirit of grace. The law of the Spirit of grace delivers us from the law of sin and death, and has nothig at all to do with miracles, anointing, laying on of hands, etc. Elijah and Elisha did miracles, before the the law of the Spirit of grace was given, in the OT mantles of power and anointing were transferred...and this had nothing to do with the New Covenant of grace and the shedding abroad of the Holy Spirit.
The law of the Spirit of grace grants us the victory of overcoming sin, so that it no longer has dominion over us. It liberates us from bondage. It is the abiding enabler for our new life in Christ that wins.
(edit) I've used a strong word here, a word I usually try to avoid at all costs: deception. But in this case, I feel it is appropriate. The church is plagued with this type of erroneous teaching, the relegating of the Holy Spirit to an enabler of miracles and signs and wonders. The devil does signs and wonders. Wizards and warlocks do the same, Mexican curanderos can heal the sick, Mormons speak in tongues and lay hands for the ordaination of the temple priesthood. Is this all the law of the Spirit of grace means to us: anointing, miracles, raising the dead, tongues?
No, the focus must realign with [b]victory over sin
.......................before the the law of the Spirit of grace was given, in the OT mantles of power and anointing were transferred...
The brother asked about rom. ch 8
Specifically about the law of the spirit of life.
I dont believe those things you say.
Also I cannot find "spirit of grace" in rom 8
I checked it in the greek
It is Jesus that claims to be the "life" in the word several times. Is it not?
David
The brother asked about rom. ch 8
I know he did. Where does it say anything about miracles and anointing? David, when I comment on theological issues, I try to do everyone here a favor and respectfully take the [i]entire
I dont believe those things you say.
I know he did. Where does it saying anything about miracles and anointing? David, when I comment on theological issues, I try to do everyone here a favor and respectfully take the entire Word of God into contextual view. The "Spirit of grace" is the promise referenced in Zechariah 12. If you want to strain the gnat on Romans 8, tell us then where you've deduced the law of the Spirit to concern outward manifestations and miracles and "anointing" from just that text, and in light of the rest of the chapter and the two chapters that precede it?Quote:
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I dont believe those things you say.
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The devil does signs and wonders. Wizards and warlocks do the same, Mexican curanderos can heal the sick, Mormons speak in tongues and lay hands for the ordaination of the temple priesthood. Is this all the law of the Spirit of grace means to us: anointing, miracles, raising the dead, tongues?
I don't believe I need to focus on what the devil does.
My calling is not your calling.
If all our callings were the same we would not be a body.
The scripture says "the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free......."
You cannot change this. the word says "life" not grace. It is not I inserting words.
Does this make me take the low road. Do you realize what you are saying?
Concerning Rom 8. Yes I do take it to mean what it says.
I do not confine "the spirit of life" to be that Jesus saved me and set me free to ignore the great commission.
If I may quote A B Simpson;
The Part of the Holy Spirit in the Personal
Ministry of Christ.
It was He that wrought the supernatural works of the Lord Jesus on earth. Not one miracle did he perform until He received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. Then he said, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, for He hath sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to set at liberty them that are bruised;" and when his enemies attributed his miracles to the power of Satan, He distinctly declared that they were performed by the power of the Holy Ghost, and added, "If I by the Holy Ghost cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God has come unto you." And then he proceeded to charge them with the fatal sin against the Holy Ghost in thus attributing His works to Satan. See Matt. xii: 28.
If then, Christ cast out demons and wrought miracles by the power of the Holy Ghost, and it is the same Spirit who still abides in the church, and dwells in the hearts and bodies of believers, why should it be thought strange that the Almighty Spirit, who thus wrought in the Son of God, should work in our bodies the same works, and thus quicken them, as our text declares?
ab simpson
Look at ALL the error concerning salvation. Should we fear the teaching and scripture on salvation knowing that false teachers led many to damnation?
Of course not.
And ,likewise for myself, It is troublesome to see abuse after abuse in the "gifts"
But I will never ever ever back off my calling because of the abuses around me,nor will heretical teachings on salvation deter me from the hope that I harvest trophies unto my King.
Whom I love with my whole heart.
David
No, the focus must realign with victory over sin; for this is the only pure and healthy interpretation.
I think Paul West is right in his view of the Law of Sin and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ. When the Holy Spirit comes in the Law of Sin and Death is replaced with the Law of the Spirit. The Spirit and the word agree, so we receive a law working in our members bringing us into obedience to God.
God works in us both to will and to do His good pleasure. Our 'meat' is to do the will of God, whereas we used to fulfill the desires of the flesh and the mind (and the Devil). This is a change in our nature.
My calling is not your calling.
David, you say over and over that moving in miracles and in the supernatural is your calling, every post of yours is tainted with this mindset, and much of your interpretation of scripture is filtered through this lense. But I wonder - do you actually have this gift? Do you raise the dead? Heal the sick and perform miracles? Friend, if you did, I doubt you would be on this forum talking about it the way you do, citing Wigglesworth over and over and looking for fights and sharpshooting preachers like Zac Poonen.
Does this make me take the low road. Do you realize what you are saying?
There are some great audio sermons on page 5 by Alan Redpath here on SI regarding this subject. Very helpful.
Which messages by Alan Redpath?
I looked at page 5 and was uncertain which ones you were referring to.
Victory over sin is the "low road" in your estimation?
No and I never said that.
the brother asked SPECIFICALLY ABOUT the law of the spirit of life.
When I commented on the spirit of the law of life is being transposed to read "law of grace" you said;
" I try to do everyone here a favor and respectfully take the entire Word of God into contextual view. The "Spirit of grace" is the promise referenced in Zechariah 12. If you want to strain the gnat on Romans 8, tell us then where you've deduced the law of the Spirit to concern outward manifestations and miracles and "anointing" from just that text, and in light of the rest of the chapter and the two chapters that precede it?"
If you want to strain at a gnat" ?
This comment prompted me tell you I dont think sticking to the word is straining at a gnat.(the low road)
It is not "either or"
I can love my king wholeheartedly and agree with my king to obey his commands to "do greater works"
To obey him and walk in the fullness of his calling doesnt mean I am off.
"David, you say over and over that moving in miracles and in the supernatural is your calling,"
What I said was my calling is different.
The 5 fold ministry:
Prophets,teachers,evangelist,pastors, etc.
God places us into "offices" or 1 "office"
Ever heard someone say "I am called to be a missionary?"
Not all can teach. Not all can preach. But together we make up his body.
Make sense?
Paul west said;
"This is exactly what happens when one becomes enamoured with signs and wonders to an unhealthy degree"
If you read the sentence immediately before this I think you will find that you misstated my heart and intentions.
It is difficult to read ones motives.
Paul West said;
"citing Wigglesworth over and over and looking for fights "
The reason I would quote wigglesworth is because I didn't want it to come from me. He is a man of God. Gregg would not archive a heretic.
And since you believe me to be such it is better for me to Quote, rather than express my views.
I am a member of the body of Christ. Therefore I have a part whether recognised or not.
As far as picking fights. I am not word of faith. I have NO word of faith books. I have lots of "bones " to pick with those people. But I will not start tossing scripture that they showcase, simply because they emphasize erroneously,any more than I would throw away my bible because some satanic cult use it to promote satanism.
You seem to measure me by the false. Good!
I will simply stay scriptural
And I am sure the love will continue with the brethren,without which all of us are cancelled out.
And BTW the reason I started the wigglesworth thread was for me,(and guests). I ,at the time,decided to make it part of my devotions. It is from SI archives. It is almost devoid of my hand. (all wigglesworth).
David
Hi Freecd,
Sorry, I should have mentioned some of them, it was a bit late last night when I posted. They are:
Self Dies Hard
Spirit of Infirmity
Spiritual Power
Temptation And How To Overcome It*
The Supernatural Life
*very helpful!
I listened to a few others (Ravenhill, Poonen, Kaung) on this topic, but found Mr. Redpath's messeages relating to this topic to be most clear, Christ/Spirit centered more so than man-centered. I hope they will enrich your understanding as well.
Major Ian Thomas's messages also helped lay out a solid foundation for the Christian's position in Christ ( all of his messages ) beautifully, I really appreciate this great man of God.
Whether you are of the Arminian/Calvinist pursuasion, these two saints' teachings seem most neutral and well-balanced.
I came across this verse last night in Acts 17:27 (KJV)"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might[b] feel after
I read Acts lots of times in the past, but this was the first time I noticed these little words, feel after. Neat?
Seeking God is great, but to be able to feel after (to grope for per EWB) it in our Spirit...that'd be wonderful?
Thanks for this thread again. Do pray as you listen. :)
In Christ,
Margaret
David, you still haven't addressed the topic at hand. You became very particular when I referred to the law of the Spirit of life as also being the law of the Spirit of grace - though scripturally they are one and the same. It's like saying the Lord Jesus Christ instead of Christ the Messiah, or Jesus Christ our Saviour instead of Christ our Redeemer. The law of the Spirit of life overcomes the law of sin and death, where sin no longer has dominion over us - for we are no under the law (of sin and death), but under [i]grace
You, on the other hand, have not yet shown us how the "law of the Spirit" according to Romans 8 denotes doing miracles and the such. You keep jumping the topic, and talking about callings and other things, which are, incidentally, birthed from further poor scripture exegesis as I see it.
Remember, we are talking about the "law" of the Spirit, and keeping it in text with Romans 8. Can we stick to this, please? After this is satisfied, we can then move onto callings or whatever else you would like to discuss.
Thank you!
Brother Paul
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
It is because of the word "law" that differs this statement to more than face value. Context yes. But also that it is a law it is much more than "a statement"
Just like the priesthood in various contexts can refer to many things.
Not that there is only one and no other context for Rom 8,2
If it is a law then it is way different than simply saying" the spirit of life".
Ok now let us see if scripture bears this out.
Rev.11;11
And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life"
And "I am come that they may have life"
Jn 11;25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
So we can clearly see it is Jesus who is "the life"
So moving back to Rom. 8 ;2
The law of the spirit of life stetting me free from the "law" of sin and death. Yes it is a law that overrides another law but beyond just empowering me for sinless abiding.(victory over sin)
Notice the book "Acts of the apostles" There was not a reluctance on their part to do the ministry of Jesus. They were not at any fork in the road that said Work the works of Jesus or abide in him for your personal victory.
I always tell missionary's "examine yourself before the Lord. Don't go for escape or adventure . Be like the men on fire that said "I just get on fire and people come to watch me burn"
All ministry is from the foundation of my on fire walk with my God and king.
I absolutely must be authentic because the charge on my life is awesome to be an ambassador of heaven.
If I am fake or have hidden, habitual sin my ministry will reflect that ingredient.
I will not exude life but in fact unknowingly I an actually a minister of death.
Now there is grace to save grace to heal,grace to forebear,and love.
But not necessarily a law of salvation or forbearance (i think)
But the law of the spirit of life has to be a working force ,like gravity.
Natural law and spiritual law.I can count on it every time.
It is this fact. "that it cannot fail" that merits a broader look."
It is the unfailing part that makes it a law.
Jesus imminates victory and success. In other words how can we fail? What could he not do through us?
Even when it looks bad. The law of life is at work. But it is beyond that. It is unfailing love and compassion of Jesus himself to Heal and save. It never fails . We are absolutely assured and guaranteed victory. Every time. It is a law.
I just recently learned this. But I learned it backwards,so to speak, due to an unanswered question. It nagged me for a long time. And when I saw this it hit me head on.
Then I saw this thread. and it just seemed like God was settling this in my spirit.
My friends, I will never be the same. This is so overwhelming to me. That this Law of the spirit of life is God to man" He truly is our source and "All things" pertaining to life and us and ministry,relationships,and on and on are bestowed on us his people. That his Glory and testimony would go forth from us his people so that it may be truly fulfilled in the word of God
"19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
To me that says "if we dont take our place even the rocks will cry out in travail"
Amen Paul, this is great teaching. Thanks for sharing all of this. I'm enjoying this thread.
All ministry is from the foundation of my on fire walk with my God and king.
I always tell missionary's "examine yourself before the Lord"
All ministry should be found upon Christ alone, with the unction of the Holy Spirit. This has to be the sole criterion/qualification for any minister to examine himself. Anything short of The Christ of the law of spirit of life, is strange fire.
Recognize this is lengthy but - context ...
[b]Rom 8:1-9 -
I. The apostle here beings with one signal privilege of true Christians, and describes the character of those to whom it belongs: There is therefore now no condemnation to those that are in Christ Jesus, Rom_8:1. This is his triumph after that melancholy complaint and conflict in the foregoing chapter - sin remaining, disturbing, vexing, but, blessed be God, not ruining. The complaint he takes to himself, but humbly transfers the comfort with himself to all true believers, who are all interested in it.
1. It is the unspeakable privilege and comfort of all those that are in Christ Jesus that there is therefore now no condemnation to them. He does not say, “There is no accusation against them,” for this there is; but the accusation is thrown out, and the indictment quashed. He does not say, “There is nothing in them that deserves condemnation,” for this there is, and they see it, and own it, and mourn over it, and condemn themselves for it; but it shall not be their ruin. He does not say, “There is no cross, no affliction to them or no displeasure in the affliction,” for this there may be; but no condemnation. They may be chastened of the Lord, but not condemned with the world. Now this arises from their being in Christ Jesus; by virtue of their union with him through faith they are thus secured. They are in Christ Jesus, as in their city of refuge, and so are protected from the avenger of blood. He is their advocate, and brings them off. There is therefore no condemnation, because they are interested in the satisfaction that Christ by dying made to the law. In Christ, God does not only not condemn them, but is well pleased with them, Mat_17:5.
2. It is the undoubted character of all those who are so in Christ Jesus as to be freed from condemnation that they walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. Observe, The character is given from their walk, not from any one particular act, but from their course and way. And the great question is, What is the principle of the walk, the flesh or the spirit, the old or the new nature, corruption or grace? Which of these do we mind, for which of these doe we make provision, by which of these are we governed, which of these do we take part with?
II. This great truth, thus laid down, he illustrates in the following verses; and shows how we come by this great privilege, and how we may answer this character.
1. How we come by these privileges - the privilege of justification, that there is no condemnation to us - the privilege of sanctification, that we walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh, which is no less our privilege than it is our duty. How comes it about?
(1.) The law could not do it, Rom_8:3. It could neither justify nor sanctify, neither free us from the guilt nor from the power of sin, having not the promises either of pardon or grace. The law made nothing perfect: It was weak. Some attempt the law made towards these blessed ends, but, alas! it was weak, it could not accomplish them: yet that weakness was not through any defect in the law, but through the flesh, through the corruption of human nature, by which we became incapable either of being justified or sanctified by the law. We had become unable to keep the law, and, in case of failure, the law, as a covenant of works, made no provision, and so left us as it found us. Or understand it of the ceremonial law; that was a plaster not wide enough for the wound, it could never take away sin, Heb_10:4.
(2.) The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus does it, Rom_8:2. The covenant of grace made with us in Christ is a treasury of merit and grace, and thence we receive pardon and a new nature, are freed from the law of sin and death, that is, both from the guilt and power of sin - from the course of the law, and the dominion of the flesh. We are under another covenant, another master, another husband, under the law of the Spirit, the law that gives the Spirit, spiritual life to qualify us for eternal. The foundation of this freedom is laid in Christ's undertaking for us, of which he speaks Rom_8:3, God sending his own Son.
Observe, When the law failed, God provided another method. Christ comes to do that which the law could not do. Moses brought the children of Israel to the borders of Canaan, and then died, and left them there; but Joshua did that which Moses could not do, and put them in possession of Canaan. Thus what the law could not do Christ did. The best exposition of this verse we have Heb_10:1-10. To make the sense of the words clear, which in our translation is a little intricate, we may read it thus, with a little transposition: - God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and a sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh, which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, etc., Rom_8:4. Observe, [1.] How Christ appeared: In the likeness of sinful flesh. Not sinful, for he was holy, harmless, undefiled; but in the likeness of that flesh which was sinful. He took upon him that nature which was corrupt, though perfectly abstracted from the corruptions of it. His being circumcised, redeemed, baptized with John's baptism, bespeaks the likeness of sinful flesh.
The bitings of the fiery serpents were cured by a serpent of brass, which had the shape, through free from the venom, of the serpents that bit them. It was great condescension that he who was God should be made in the likeness of flesh; but much greater that he who was holy should be made in the likeness of sinful flesh. And for sin, - here the best Greek copies place the comma. God sent him, en homoiōmati sarkos hamartias, kai peri hamartias - in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as a sacrifice for sin. The Septuagint call a sacrifice for sin no more than peri hamartias - for sin; so Christ was a sacrifice; he was sent to be so, Heb_9:26.
[2.] What was done by this appearance of his: Sin was condemned, that is, God did therein more than ever manifest his hatred of sin; and not only so, but for all that are Christ's both the damning and the domineering power of sin is broken and taken out of the way. He that is condemned can neither accuse nor rule; his testimony is null, and his authority null. Thus by Christ is sin condemned; though it live and remain, its life in the saints is still but like that of a condemned malefactor. it was by the condemning of sin that death was disarmed, and the devil, who had the power of death, destroyed. The condemning of sin saved the sinner from condemnation. Christ was made sin for us (2Co_5:21), and, being so made, when he was condemned sin was condemned in the flesh of Christ, condemned in the human nature: So was sanctification made to divine justice, and way made for the salvation of the sinner. [3.] The happy effect of this upon us (Rom_8:4): That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. Both in our justification and in our sanctification, the righteousness of the law if fulfilled. A righteousness of satisfaction for the breach of the law is fulfilled by the imputation of Christ's complete and perfect righteousness, which answers the utmost demands of the law, as the mercy-seat was as long and as broad as the ark. A righteousness of obedience to the commands of the law is fulfilled in us, when by the Spirit the law of love is written upon the heart, and that love is the fulfilling of the law, Rom_13:10. Though the righteousness of the law is not fulfilled by us, yet, blessed be God, it is fulfilled in us; there is that to be found upon and in all true believers which answers the intention of the law. Us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is the description of all those that are interested in this privilege - they act from spiritual and not from carnal principles; as for others, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled upon them in their ruin. Now,
2. Observe how we may answer to this character, Rom_8:5, etc.
(1.) By looking to our minds. How may we know whether we are after the flesh or after the Spirit? By examining what we mind, the things of the flesh or the things of the spirit. Carnal pleasure, worldly profit and honour, the things of sense and time, are the things of the flesh, which unregenerate people mind. The favour of God, the welfare of the soul, the concerns of eternity, are the things of the Spirit, which those that are after the Spirit do mind. The man is as the mind is. The mind is the forge of thoughts. As he thinketh in his heart, so is he, Pro_23:7. Which way do the thoughts move with most pleasure? On what do they dwell with most satisfaction? The mind is the seat of wisdom. Which way go the projects and contrivances? whether are we more wise for the world or for our souls? phronousi ta tēs sarkos - they savour the things of the flesh; so the word is rendered, Mat_16:23. It is a great matter what our savour is, what truths, what tidings, what comforts, we do most relish, and are most agreeable to us. Now, to caution us against this carnal-mindedness, he shows the great misery and malignity of it, and compares it with the unspeakable excellency and comfort of spiritual-mindedness.
[1.] It is death, Rom_8:6. It is spiritual death, the certain way to eternal death. It is the death of the soul; for it is its alienation from God, in union and communion with whom the life of the soul consists. A carnal soul is a dead soul, dead as a soul can die. She that liveth in pleasure is dead (1Ti_5:6), not only dead in law as guilty, but dead in state as carnal. Death includes all misery; carnal souls are miserable souls. But to be spiritually minded, phronēma tou pneumatos - a spiritual savour (the wisdom that is from above, a principle of grace) is life and peace; it is the felicity and happiness of the soul. The life of the soul consists in its union with spiritual things by the mind. A sanctified soul is a living soul, and that life is peace; it is a very comfortable life. All the paths of spiritual wisdom are paths of peace. It is life and peace in the other world, as well as in this. Spiritual-mindedness is eternal life and peace begun, and an assuring earnest of the perfection of it.
[2.] It is enmity to God (Rom_8:7), and this is worse than the former. The former speaks the carnal sinner a dead man, which is bad; but this speaks him a devil of a man. It is not only an enemy, but enmity itself. It is not only the alienation of the soul from God, but the opposition of the soul against God; it rebels against his authority, thwarts his design, opposes his interest, spits in his face, spurns at his bowels. Can there be a greater enmity? An enemy may be reconciled, but enmity cannot. How should this humble us for and warn us against, carnal-mindedness! Shall we harbour and indulge that which is enmity to God our creator, owner, ruler, and benefactor? To prove this, he urges that it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. The holiness of the law of God, and the unholiness of the carnal mind, are as irreconcilable as light and darkness. The carnal man may, by the power of divine grace, be made subject to the law of God, but the carnal mind never can; this must be broken and expelled. See how wretchedly the corrupt will of man is enslaved to sin; as far as the carnal mind prevails, there is no inclination to the law of God; therefore wherever there is a change wrought it is by the power of God's grace, not by the freedom of man's will. Hence he infers (Rom_8:8), Those that are in the flesh cannot please God. Those that are in a carnal unregenerate state, under the reigning power of sin, cannot do the things that please God, wanting grace, the pleasing principle, and an interest in Christ, the pleasing Mediator. The very sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination, Pro_15:8. Pleasing God is our highest end, of which those that are in the flesh cannot but fall short; they cannot please him, nay, they cannot but displease him. We may know our state and character,
(2.) By enquiring whether we have the Spirit of God and Christ, or not (Rom_8:9): You are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit. This expresses states and conditions of the soul vastly different. All the saints have flesh and spirit in them; but to be in the flesh and to be in the Spirit are contrary. It denotes our being overcome and subdued by one of these principles. As we say, A man is in love, or in drink, that is, overcome by it. Now the great question is whether we are in the flesh or in the Spirit; and how may we come to know it? Why, by enquiring whether the Spirit of God dwell in us. The Spirit dwelling in us is the best evidence of our being in the Spirit, for the indwelling is mutual (1Jo_4:16): Dwelleth in God, and God in him. The Spirit visits many that are unregenerate with his motions, which they resist and quench; but in all that are sanctified he dwells; there he resides and rules. He is there as a man at his own house, where he is constant and welcome, and has the dominion. Shall we put this question to our own hearts, Who dwells, who rules, who keeps house, here? Which interest has the ascendant? To this he subjoins a general rule of trial: If any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. To be Christ's (that is, to be a Christian indeed, one of his children, his servants, his friends, in union with him) is a privilege and honour which many pretend to that have no part nor lot in the matter. None are his but those that have his Spirit; that is,
[1.] That are spirited as he was spirited-are meek, and lowly, and humble, and peaceable, and patient, and charitable, as he was. We cannot tread in his steps unless we have his spirit; the frame and disposition of our souls must be conformable to Christ's pattern.
[2.] That are actuated and guided by the Holy Spirit of God, as a sanctifier, teacher, and comforter. Having the Spirit of Christ is the same with having the Spirit of God to dwell in us. But those two come much to one; for all that are actuated by the Spirit of God as their rule are conformable to the spirit of Christ as their pattern. Now this description of the character of those to whom belongs this first privilege of freedom from condemnation is to be applied to all the other privileges that follow.
Matthew Henry
The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus does it, Rom_8:2. The covenant of[b]grace[/b] made with us in Christ is a treasury of merit and[b]grace,[/b] and thence we receive pardon and a new nature,[b]are freed from the law of sin and death, that is, both from the guilt and power of sin - from the course of the law, and the dominion of the flesh.[/b] We are under another covenant, another master, another husband, under the law of the Spirit, the law that gives the Spirit, spiritual life to qualify us for eternal. The foundation of this freedom is laid in Christ's undertaking for us, of which he speaks Rom_8:3, God sending his own Son.
Precious Matthew Henry, always so trustworthy, clean and pure. I bless God for this Puritan expositor. And I thank God for brothers like Mike B and others here who also recognize and support healthy teachings...and who post their gleanings for the edification and fortification the Body through proper scripture exegesis.
PaulWest wrote:
And I thank God for brothers like Mike B and others here who also recognize and support healthy teachings...and who post their gleanings for the edification and fortification the Body through proper scripture exegesis.
Amen! :-)
The "Spirit of life" is synonomous with the "Spirit of grace."
We may as well state the verse, "the law of the Spirit of life in [b]grace
For Jesus is truly the Grace and the Life -- indeed, God [b]gave[b]life
Or shall we say the life of Christ that is to be rivers of living waters flowing out of us is not of grace?
Or, rather, the grace of Christ is not the foundation of our life in Him?
It is as PaulWest explained, the names of God are interchangeable as they are all the One God --- so long as there is no confusing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. However, for practicality, the names of Him are usually particular for different emphasises.
I do not disagree that the Spirit of Life is the giver of gifts (including every spiritual gift) and that according to the law of the Promise of the Father.
However, it must be emphasized that Romans 8 is not exactly speaking of spiritual gifts. I would reference what Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 13 to be the focus that these passages are all about.
See also,
Romans 8
4. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
1 Corinthians 1
4. I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus,
5. that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge,
6. even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you,
7. so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
8. who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3
1. And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
It is a true statement concerning the "Great Commission." However, it shall be our fervent and sincere love from the heart one for another that proves us to be the Lord's disciples and free from the law of sin and death -- not gifts.
However, it shall be our fervent and sincere love from the heart one for another that proves us to be the Lord's disciples and free from the law of sin and death -- not gifts.
Yes boG, all comes back to the fervent love of GOD and one and another.
Whenever I encounter temptations or trials in the past, and still so, the tendency is to quickly examine myself, my state of mind, doctrine, the objects before me etc. ...but until I realize/reckon that the only way I seem to be able to put forth the "mechanics" in Scripture, flesh vs spirit etc.,I find myself having to ask God to replace whatever it is in the battle with more abundant affection for The Lord Himself. Christ, the Person. Not just love in the head, but the affection and gratitude in the heart. Without such, nothing helps! It all has to come down to this law, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
Take the whole armour of God for instance, in my mind, this whole armour personifies Christ. Why would I want to take on this Armour if I don't love the God of this Armour. Why would I even bother with this Armour if I hold no esteem for It.
Coming back to Romans 6:6 (King James Version)
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin
In times when we find our love and affection for Christ dwindling. even though our old man is crucified, the passion and lust of our flesh are bound to be creeping up little at a time.
Christian discipline is futile without affection for Christ. What good is it for us to be completely dead to sin if our hearts remain cold towards Christ? That will only make us religiously empty.
edit: (I meant to post in on the Romans 6:6 thread)
In Christ,
Margaret
Before I was born again, I was under the law of sin and death. I did not even know it existed. I did not believe in this law but could not escape from its hold on me. It was not a question of my will. My will had no power over this law. It was a power over me that I could not control or overcome.
The law of the spirit of life sets me free from the "law" of sin and death.
Now it seems to me that this Law of the Spirit of life has to be at least equal to or have a greater power than the law of sin and death. It should work even if I do not know it exists or believe in it. It should not concern my will. Either this law exists or it does not. My will has no part to play in it.
My question is how do we experience this Law so we are really freed from the law of sin and death daily?
I did not believe in this law but could not escape from its hold on me.
[b]Romans 6
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
It was not a question of my will.
Ah, but it is a question of your will, for by your will you first presented yourself a slave to unrighteousness. And if you were not willing to be freed from sin by the Savior, you would yet be without hope. As Jesus said, Mark 2:17, "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." And, again, Jesus said, John 9:41, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth." That is to say, the Pharisees did not even recognize their own sins, and in their ignorance and arrogance did not seek, much less desire, a Savior.
Thus, only those who hate the wretchedness of their sin (though the spirit is willing the flesh is weak) must require the Deliverer, Jesus, who shall save us from our sins.
My will had no power over this law. It was a power over me that I could not control or overcome.
True, the slave is no greater than his master; even if his master is sin. And without the regeneration of the Holy Spirit nothing is pure: everything is utterly sinful without Christ. Without Him all that remains is the filthy righteousness of man and wood, hay, and stubble.
Now it seems to me that this Law of the Spirit of life has to be at least equal to or have a greater power than the law of sin and death.
Equal? No.
Greater? As much greater as the Name of Jesus is exalted far above the heavens!
It should work even if I do not know it exists or believe in it.
"even if I do not know it exists"
There are two responses to this:
1) [b]Romans 1
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. [b]Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; [b]so that they are without excuse
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
2) [b]Romans 10
13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14. [b]How then shall they call on him in whom they have [u]not believed[b]how shall they believe in him of whom they [u]have not heard
15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
So it is important to know, even God's people perish for lack of knowledge! Not knowledge according to the traditions of men but, rather, the knowledge that is revealed in the fear of the Lord.
"even if I do not believe in it"
Romans 1
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: [b]for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that [u]believeth
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, [b]The just shall live by faith
And again, Romans 14:23, "[b]for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Repent and believe is the cry of our Lord! Repent and be saved! There is no way around this command.
It should not concern my will. Either this law exists or it does not. My will has no part to play in it.
This law exists because it is God who has established it in Christ Jesus. In this respect, no matter what you feel, think, or believe about it you shall still be judged by it. However, as I have already shown with the previous Scriptures your will has its part, as ordained by God; He has set before you life and death: choose. (Mind you, your choice does not save you, indeed not, it is God who has mercy for the ones who call upon His Name that saves you.)
My question is how do we experience this Law so we are really freed from the law of sin and death daily?
The book of Ephesians has a lot of great things to say about this (honestly, the whole Bible does, more so the NT as touching the revelation of Christ Jesus, and just because I like Ephesians I say so :-P ).
[b]Ephesians chapter 2
12. That at that time (that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, [b]and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. [b]For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
The phrase "them both" in this passage is referring to both Jews and Gentiles being made as "one flock" in Christ, who is our Good Shepherd.
There is obviously much more to say concerning these things. But to the point, in this chapter, Paul is explaining that the "law of sin and death," aka, "the law of commandments contained in ordinances," has been abolished for righteousness sake. As the law of sin and death was emnity between us and God and was a "wall of partition" between us. Thus, there being no fellowship -- no peace with God -- as our sins had seperated us from His Holy Presence.
The law of the Spirit of life is indeed a law,
... the law of ...
However, it is also very much a principle of life because it is not contained in ordinances, as the OT law was.
This is not to be confused with "laws" and "principles" in the sense of the traditions of men. For it is not concerning the laws and principles as founded by the wisdom of men but by the nature of the Father's holiness.
A.W. Tozer had some very good sermons on this point:
(That is "Immanence" as in the piercing and indwelling Spirit.)
[b][u]Description[b]If we would draw near to God, we must desire to be like Him[b]Topics
Some quotes that I took from this sermon long, long ago:
Regeneration - gives compatibility (a measure of the character of God) between God and man (removal of sin). Sin throws man out of accord with God, there is no congruity.
Makes communion morally inconsistent.
You can't have communion where there is complete unlikeness. With another kind of creature ... Dog, you can pet but you cannot commune with. Nor vice versa. There is too great a dissimalarity of nature.
So God cannot commune with the sinner because there is a violent unlikeness.
Col. 3 - you put on the new man after the image of Him.
[b]God can only commune with His own image.
Where there is no likeness there can be no fellowship between God and that unlike thing.
But where there is restored to that person a similarity, something of the nature of God, a compatibility, then God begins a communion. And of course He can commune depending on the fullness or completeness of that image.
And in terms of abiding and walking in Him daily, it comes down to the consecration of your life as a living sacrifice unto God. The one who loves Jesus shall obey His commandments. And also the one who loves the Son shall be loved by the Father and the Son shall come and reveal Himself to you through the Holy Spirit and They shall abide in and with you -- thereby establishing the Word of God in you, sanctifying the nature of the new man born in Christ. That is daily conforming to the image of Him by renewing the mind with the Living Word.
And you might still be asking, "but how do we ...?" It is simple, you do not of yourself.
It is the same as this parable: [b]Luke 17
9. "He (God) does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he?
10. "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, `We are unworthy (unprofitable) slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.' "
That is to say, by no works or deeds or will of man shall God be obligated or commanded -- unless He has first commanded ([b]Lamentations 3:37[b]Romans 9:16
Just as we have previously mentioned that it is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts -- a fervent and sincere love from the heart towards one another -- that proves us to be the Lord's disciples. Not of works of law -- but love that works by faith seeking to edify and honor others above ourselves and weighted with the precious fruits of the Spirit, as listed in [b]1 Corinthians 13
To say it another way, the OT law was based on the "knowledge of good and evil" (right and wrong) but the law of the Spirit is based on life (righteousness). Therefore, not to do the right thing, or abstain from the wrong, but to be found in righteousness before the piercing eyes of God.
Thus all works and gifts (including every spiritual gift) is to be found in love and worked by faith.
And all of this is summed up by Jesus in this way:
[b]Matthew 11
28. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Thus, it is not supposed to be a burdensome or abusive toil upon our souls to walk in the will of God. Not to say there will not be great burden and abuse upon these frail bodies -- but our souls shall be found resting firm upon the rock of our Salvation and our spirits rejoicing in the wonders of His love.
As we are no longer bound by the works of the law -- as established by external practices. But not without the law of God -- as established by the nature of the Holy Spirit transforming and conforming us to both will and to do according to His good pleasure;
Hebrews 10
9. Then said he (Jesus), Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12. But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13. From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16. [b]This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more
18. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20. [b]By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us
21. And having an high priest over the house of God;
22. [b]Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24. And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25. Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Therefore, we experience this Law of liberty in the Spirit, of Him who loved us, by simple child-like faith holding fast to His precious and exceeding promises ([b]2 Peter 1
And to conclude this enjoyable meditation, a few verses concerning the law of the Spirit of life:
[b]1 John 2
4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[b]1 John 4
20. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
For this is the law of Christ Jesus,
[b]Galatians 6
2. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
As all of the law and all of the prophets finds its perfection and completion in these two:
[b]Mark 12
29. And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30. And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: ...
33. ... [this] is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly (wisely), he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.
[b]1 Samuel 15
22. Samuel said, "Has the LORD as much delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
As in obeying the voice of the LORD ?
Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams."
[b]Psalm 51
16. For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;
You are not pleased with burnt offering.
17. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
[b]Proverbs 1
23. Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
[b]2 Peter 1[b]8[b]they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
...
... [b]John 17
... 3. And this is life eternal, that they
... might know thee the only true God, and
... Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
...[b]2 Peter 1[b]11[b]For so [in this way] an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
Trust in the Lord and seek Him with all your heart -- those who seek Him shall not seek in vain and neither shall those who trust in Him be ashamed -- He will make your paths straight in the Way of righteousness. Flee from sexual immorality and flee from idolatry.
Do you experience this Law so you are really freed from the law of sin and death daily? Or do you still sin?
My question is how do we experience this Law so we are really freed from the law of sin and death daily?
Do you experience this Law so you are really freed from the law of sin and death daily? Or do you still sin?
Hi brother,
Been chewing on this for a long time. Tried to develop an expression at one point by way of "Am I wretched man still?" and begged off of it as I seemed more confused than articulate ...
For what it's worth here, the question that keeps coming back is the grand disputing over the unfortunate chapter break of Romans 7-8. The question is; Is Paul making an assessment in a continual sense or is it a before\\after conundrum - Before I was like this but now, thanks be to God ... I am 'delivered' once for all, etc. etc.
But I find by both experience and the continuing of the context that ...
[i] So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
And if it is something of an answer to the questions raised, that I have taken out above;
[i]There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,...[u]who walk not
Not and but.
"who walk ... after the Spirit"
Which leads to the original question that heads this post;
[i]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Right on through the rest of the context it seems quite implicit to use a worldly example of an old Aerosmith song - "[i]Walk [u]this
Just to bunch them up together as Paul goes on in the context further ...
[i]who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit ... For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit ... For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace ... the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Then comes the ... stickler;
[i]But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
What is he saying? [i]Always
[i]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
"Debtors". If we had some sort of true eradication that some have taken all this to an extreme to mean, then why the talk of debt?
To 'walk after' prior and now it is also to 'live after'. Not to the one but to the other.
[i]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Through the Spirit [i]mortify[i]live after
[i]For as many as are [b]led by
Walk. Mortify. Reckon. [i]Led by ...
One of the many favorite verses;
[i]For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
If Paul had never written this, someone else would have. I myself would have. It is not something that is to be lived up to but an extrapolation of that which is already there. We have received this tremendous "Spirit of adoption" and [i]whereby[i]why
Surely preaching to the choir here and could get far carried away well into the whole book of Romans - Perhaps that is my beef if there is one, the whole context, start to finish - There is a continuum of thought that Paul is expressing even if it is varied and difficult to pin down to one easily summarized word. If I had to be forced into just one ...
[i]Walk
But watch how you walk - Where you are going - Who you are following and recall that to be led implies that you are behind Someone.
Do you experience this Law so you are really freed from the law of sin and death daily? Or do you still sin?
Psa 119:1 ¶ ALEPH. Blessed [are] the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Psa 119:2 Blessed [are] they that keep his testimonies, [and that] seek him with the whole heart.
Psa 119:3 They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Psa 119:4 Thou hast commanded [us] to keep thy precepts diligently.
Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes!
Psa 119:6 Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.
Psa 119:7 I will praise thee with uprightness of heart, when I shall have learned thy righteous judgments.
This section of Scripture should put to rest any question regarding our everyday walk with the Lord...
Look to the OT for the real answer of how we know how the Spirit of God transforms us and thus we are found blameless as the writer of Psalm 119 declares...
In Christ
Jeff
crsschk wrote:
If I had to be forced into just one ...
[i]Walk[/i] But watch how you walk - Where you are going - Who you are following and recall that to be led implies that you are behind Someone.
Oh I am so thankful this question was asked and answered. I have read alot of Watchman Nee, and this has always been my hang-up as far as my understanding of this goes. I have been thinking about this all day at work. I get confused with the words dying to self, alive to Christ walking after the spirit so as to not fulfill the deeds of the flesh (which means I won't ???)
Thanks for sharing that, crsschk..
I'm one for keeping it simple [b]"walk."
In Hebrews chapters 8-10 we learn that Christ being our High Priest has two things to offer...
In chapter 8 we find that Christ promises to do this for those who hear...
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Have you ever wondered why the writer of Hebrews chose to use this OT Scripture to define the work of Christ in those who hear?
In Christ
Jeff
I get confused with the words dying to self, alive to Christ walking after the spirit so as to not fulfill the deeds of the flesh (which means I won't ???)
Read Psalm 119, feed on the word of God...you will begin to recognize His voice, in the same way the writer of Psalm 119 did.
But you must be willing to read the word of God and listen to this promise...
Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
God speaks more clearly than any of the men we choose to read...
In Christ
Jeff
crsschk wrote:
....recall that to be led implies that you are behind Someone.
This helps alot because I always had it in my head that to be led is like someone taking you by the hand but it makes much more since that it means that you are behind someone. It's amazing how a misunderstanding of a few words can mess you up.
THE TWO NATURES—
A TALK WITH YOUNG BELIEVERS
Watchman Nee
A great number of people who have believed in the Lord Jesus as their Savior have discovered a new experience soon after they have believed: in their hearts it seems that there are two natures. These two natures are incompatible with each other. Of the two natures, one is evil and the other is good. Sometimes, when the good nature gains the upper hand, a person becomes very loving, patient, good, and meek. Sometimes, when the evil nature prevails, the person becomes very jealous, ill-tempered, wicked, and stubborn. Those believers who are under this kind of condition experience sudden ups and downs in their life. Sometimes, their spiritual condition seems to be on the mountaintop; at other times, it seems to be in the deep valley. This kind of spiritual life is also like the waves of the sea, at times high and at times low. Believers under this kind of condition are bewildered! Why is there the joy? Why is there the sorrow? Why do we sometimes love a certain person that much and have the ability to tolerate so much of others' ridicule? Why at other times are we so void of love and so impatient? When such a person is at his spiritual peak, he experiences unspeakable joy and peace. When he is spiritually low, he is filled with sorrow and depression. Before such a person believed in the Lord, he did not have much feeling even when he sinned. But now it is very different. He may speak a wrong word or commit a wrong act by accident. Formerly, these things would have been considered trivial, and the conscience would not have been bothered at all. But now, he falls into much self-condemnation. Although no one condemns him, he rebukes himself for doing these things.
Such self-condemnation is quite unbearable. It causes the believer to feel ashamed and embarrassed, to feel guilty and condemned. Only after he finds out that the Lord has fully forgiven his sins and he has recovered his spiritual joy can he feel happy again. However, this kind of happiness does not last long. Those believers who remain on this level of life soon find themselves caused to stumble again and their previous joy once more lost! Soon after, they find themselves committing the same sin they committed before! It seems so natural to fall into sin. It is as if a power from within has overpowered them in an instant; they are led uncontrollably to speak the wrong words and do the wrong things. Under such a condition, the believers invariably become penitent. They invariably make many vows and resolutions before the Lord. They set up for themselves many ordinances to bind themselves, in the hope that they will not commit the same error again. At the same time, they ask for the cleansing of the Lord's blood afresh and seek for another filling of the Holy Spirit by the Lord. After this, they seem quite satisfied and think that their last sin is behind them, that from now on they are on their way to holiness. However, the fact always turns out contrary to their wish. Soon, perhaps a few days later, they fail again! Once more they fall into deep remorse, bemoaning their own failure and feeling sorrowful at heart; their hopes for holiness have been dashed. All their resolutions and regulations cannot help them. Although they may receive the Lord's forgiveness after this, it becomes difficult for them to believe that they can keep themselves from sinning again. Although they still pray that the Lord would keep them, their heart is full of doubts. They begin to wonder if the Lord can really keep them from sin.
Young believers frequently fall into this kind of experience. Almost daily they come under self-condemnation and sorrow. Sometimes they may condemn themselves several times a day or even several dozen times a day. Such a life of wandering in the wilderness causes them to doubt even their own regeneration. Does not the Scripture say, "He cannot sin, because he has been begotten of God" (1 John 3:9)? They think that if they always sin, it probably means that they are not yet regenerated! The despondency and disappointment at such times are difficult to express even with their tears.
Since these ones have experienced much failure, they make up their mind to be on the alert, to resolve to fight the last battle against the indwelling sin. They remind themselves to watch out for their former weaknesses. They try purposely to improve themselves in areas where they constantly failed before. They resolve as best they can to put off "the sin which so easily entangles us" (Heb. 12:1). This of course affords them much help in their outward conduct. Yet the inward activities of sin continue as before; there is no quelling of its energy. In the end, they fail again. Consider the example of the temper. After a believer realizes that his besetting sin is his quick temper, he will try to control himself in everything. This may work with lesser irritations; it may work in one or two temptations. However, though he may hold back his temper temporarily, further irritations from others will cause his temper to break loose. He may succeed a few times, but as soon as he becomes a little careless, he loses his temper again. At the time of the temptation, he may experience much conflict in his heart. On the one hand, he thinks that he should not lose his temper and should be gentle. On the other hand, he considers the unreasonableness and offense of the other party, and he feels it necessary to vindicate himself by punishing such behavior. This kind of conflict is found commonly among believers. Unfortunately, the result is often failure rather than victory. Once they exhaust their patience, they fail again. A genuinely regenerated person often goes through this kind of experience at the beginning of his Christian life. We do not know how many tears are shed because of defeat in this conflict!
My dear brothers, do you have the experiences we have mentioned? Do you want to know the reason for them? Do you want to overcome? May the Lord bless what we are discussing today so that we will learn to grow in His grace.
Before we speak of our present condition, we should first understand the kind of person we were before we believed in the Lord. After that, we will speak of our condition after we believed in the Lord. We know that we are persons made up of three parts—the spirit, the soul, and the body. The spirit is the organ with which we fellowship with God. Animals have no spirit. Hence, they can never worship God. The soul is the seat of our personality. Our will, mind, emotion, and sentiments are all functions of the soul. The body is our outward shell. Although man has become fallen, he still possesses these three parts. After man is regenerated, he still has the same three parts. When God created man, He created him with a self-consciousness; man was a living creature with consciousness. He had a spirit. Hence, he was different from other lower kinds of creatures. He had a soul. Hence, he was different from the angels of light, who are purely spirits. The center of man was his spirit; it controlled his whole being. It controlled his soul and his body. Man was living totally for God; the emotions of his soul and the demands of his body were all headed up by his spirit, and they were for glorifying God and worshipping God.
But alas, man fell! This fall did not annul any of the three elements in man. However, the order of these three elements has been upset. The condition in the garden of Eden shows us clearly that mankind rebelled against God; his love for God ceased, and he declared his independence from God. Genesis 3:6 says, "And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food [this was the lust of the body, which comes first] and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired [this was the love of the emotion in the soul, which comes next] to make one wise [this was Satan's suggestion, `And ye shall be as gods, knowing' (3:5); this was the spirit rejecting God, and man satisfying the cravings of the soul and the body; this comes last]." In this way, man fell, and his spirit, soul, and body were all affected. The spirit became subject to the soul, and the soul was controlled by its many senses. The body developed many abnormal cravings and lusts, which enticed the soul. Originally the spirit took the lead. Now the body takes the lead to satisfy its lusts. In the Bible, this lust of the body is called the flesh. From this time on, man became flesh (Gen. 6:3). This flesh is now man's nature after he sinned; it is now his natural constitution. Our nature is the life principle or constitution that directs our whole being. Since the time of Adam, everyone born of woman bears this sinful nature; all of them are of the flesh. After understanding the origin of the flesh and how the flesh is just our sinful nature, we can now consider the character of this flesh. We cannot expect this flesh to improve. Human nature is hard to change. In fact, it will not change. The Lord Jesus said, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh." We should focus on the word "is." That which is born of the flesh is flesh. No matter how much a person reforms, improves, and cultivates himself, the flesh is still the flesh. No matter how much a person tries to perform charitable, benevolent acts, send relief aid, love others, or serve, he is still the flesh. Even if he can do all these things, he is still the flesh. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh." Since it is the flesh that is born, it will be the flesh that will result. No man on earth can change his flesh. Neither can God in heaven change man's flesh, that is, man's nature.
Since God saw that it was impossible to mend, improve, or change man's sinful nature, He brought in the present wonderful way of redemption. We know that the Lord Jesus died for us on the cross at Golgotha. We also know that when we believe in Him and receive Him as our Savior, we are saved. But why does God deliver us from death to life once we believe in His Son's name? If this believing does not involve an exchange in our life, which is different from a mere change, will not God be delivering a man who is still full of sin into heaven? There must surely be a profound message here.
After we have believed in the Lord Jesus, God does not leave us to walk according to the old sinful nature, that is, the flesh. He sentenced the Lord Jesus to death because He intended, on the one hand, that the Lord become sin for us, and on the other hand, that the old Adamic creation be crucified with Him, so that He could give us a new life. When we believed in the Lord Jesus as our Savior, God gave us this new life with its new nature. "Through these you might become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption which is in the world by lust" (2 Pet. 1:4). At the time we believed, He dispensed into us His own life, the life of God, with the nature of God. This nature is entirely new; it is totally different from our old sinful nature. This nature does not come from an improvement of our old nature. This mysterious transaction took place at the instant we believed in the Lord Jesus as our Savior. This is regeneration, which is to be born from above and to receive God's life and nature. This regeneration is not something that man feels. Rather, it is the work of God's Holy Spirit in our spirit, recovering our spirit's lost position and installing God's life in our spirit. "The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:8). All those who have genuinely believed in the Lord Jesus have the Holy Spirit working in them in this way. Those who believe only with their mouth or their head are not regenerated. All those who have believed with their heart are saved (Rom. 10:9) and are surely regenerated.
Now, two natures emerge in a believer. One is the sinful nature, the flesh, which is the nature of old Adam. The other is the spiritual life, the "new spirit," which bears God's nature. Brothers, you have believed in the Lord Jesus, and you know that you are saved. For this reason, you are regenerated already. You should now know that there are two natures within you. These two natures are the cause of your numerous conflicts. The reason you fluctuate up and down and alternate between victory and defeat is that two natures are exercising their influence over you. These two natures are the key to the riddle of your life of struggling.
For a young believer to have such experiences of inward conflict and condemnation proves that he is regenerated. An unregenerated person is still dead in sin. Although he may at times be condemned in his conscience, such feeling is very ill-defined. Without the new nature, it is obvious that a person will not experience the conflict between the new nature and the old.
The Bible clearly describes this conflict between the new nature and the old. In Romans 7, Paul vividly portrayed this kind of life of conflict through his own experience. He said, "For what I work out, I do not acknowledge; for what I will, this I do not practice; but what I hate, this I do" (v. 15). This is the conflict of the new and the old natures. The description here is that of the experience of a newborn believer. At such times, he is still a babe in Christ. He is in the infancy of his spiritual life, and he is still childish and powerless. The "I" in the "what I will" and "what I hate" refers to the new nature. Although the new nature desires God's will and hates sin, the other nature, the old nature, is too strong. This, together with the weakness of a person's will, compels that one to sin. However, the new nature does not sin. "Now then it is no longer I that work it out, but sin that dwells in me" (v. 17). The first "I" is the "I" of the new nature. "Sin" is another name for the sinful nature. Therefore, this verse means that the one who sins is not the new "I," but the sinful nature. Of course, this does not remove man's responsibility. Paul went on to describe the positive contradiction between the old and the new natures, that is, the contradiction between the sinful nature and the spiritual life.
"For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not. For I do not do the good which I will; but the evil which I do not will, this I practice...I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man, but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members" (Rom. 7:18-23). This is indeed the common experience of all believers: to will to do good, yet be unable to do it, and to will to oppose evil, yet be unable to reject it. When temptation comes, a power (the "law") suppresses our desire for holiness. As a result, we speak what we ought not speak and do what we ought not do. Despite many resolutions and vows, we are unable to stop this power from working.
In Galatians Paul described again the conflict between these two natures. "For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these oppose each other that you would not do the things that you desire" (5:17). The old nature and the new nature are enemies of each other. Both strive to gain absolute supremacy over us. The old nature has its desires and its power, and the new nature has its also. The two natures exist in us simultaneously. Hence, there is the constant conflict. They are like Esau and Jacob in the womb of Rebekah; the two were diametrically opposed to each other, and at times they fought with each other in the womb. When the Son of God was on earth, all the powers on earth plotted to kill Him. In the same way, while the Son of God lives in our heart as our new life, all the lusts in our flesh strive to remove Him.
Before we go on, we should first understand the characteristics of the two natures. The old nature was born of our flesh. In it, "nothing good dwells" (Rom. 7:18). The new nature is from God. It "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9). The new and the old natures are completely different. Not only do they come from different sources; even their functions are different. However, both exist in the believers. The old nature is the flesh. "And those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Rom. 8:8). The new nature is the new spirit. "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and reality." Without comparison with the new nature, the old nature, humanly speaking, is not too bad, despite some self-excusing inclinations and lusts. Yet, when a person is regenerated, the new nature comes in with the new life. When both the new and the old natures are put side by side, the true characteristics of the old nature are exposed.
With the new nature as a contrast, the old nature is exposed to be evil, worldly, and devilish. The new nature is holy, heavenly, and divine. Because the old nature, with the passing of time, has become so deeply intertwined with the person himself, it takes quite a period of time to remove this old nature in experience. The new nature has just come into being. Since man's flesh and sinful nature have become too strong, the growth and function of the new nature are suppressed. Of course, we are only speaking from man's point of view. This is like the thorns choking the growth of the seed of the word. Because the two natures are opposite one to another, when temptation comes, a person experiences fierce conflicts. Since the old nature is strong and the new nature weak, a person often ends up doing what he does not desire to do and not doing what he does desire to do. Since the new nature is holy, when a person fails, he feels repentant and condemns himself, and he pleads for the sin-cleansing blood. Brothers, by now, you should understand the reason for your conflicting experiences. This kind of conflict shows most assuredly that you are regenerated.
The most crucial question now is: how can we overcome? In other words, how can we reject the power and work of the old nature, and walk according to the aspirations of the new nature, and thus please the Lord? Let us read three verses:
"But they who are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts" (Gal. 5:24).
"If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit"; "But I say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh" (vv. 25, 16).
These three verses tell us two ways to overcome the flesh, that is, the sinful nature, the old nature, and the old Adamic nature. Actually, the two ways are merely two aspects, or two phases, of one way. The cross and the Holy Spirit are the unique way to overcome the sinful nature. Other than this way, any human resolutions, determinations, or vows to charity are destined for failure.
We have seen that all our failures are caused by the tenaciousness of the sinful nature; we sink to such a low condition because of it. Hence, whether or not we will overcome depends on whether or not we are able to deal with this sinful nature, which is the flesh. Thank God that though we are helpless, He has the way. He has prepared a way for us on the cross. When the Lord Jesus was crucified on the cross, not only did He die for us, but He crucified our flesh with Him on the cross. Hence, all those who belong to Christ Jesus and are regenerated have their flesh crucified. When He died on the cross, our flesh was crucified there as well. Both the substitutional death and the identifying death have been accomplished by the Lord Jesus. Both are fully accomplished. Formerly, we believed in His substitutional death and were regenerated. Now, in the same way, we believe that our flesh is crucified with Him, and we are brought into the experience of the death of the flesh.
We know that the flesh is always the flesh. This is why God gave us a new life and a new nature. But what shall we do with the flesh? Since God considered it hopeless and impossible, He decided to terminate it, that is, to put it to death. There is no better way than to cause the flesh to die. Hence, "they who are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and its lusts." This puts the flesh to death. This is what the Lord Jesus has accomplished; He has accomplished it already. By crucifying our flesh with Him, it becomes possible now for us to put to death the sinful nature. This has been accomplished without any effort of our own.
How can this co-crucifixion become our experience? We have said that the way is by faith. Romans 6:11 says, "So also you, reckon yourselves to be dead to sin." Sin here refers to the sinful nature which is the flesh. By ourselves, we cannot cause the flesh to die. The only way is by reckoning. Reckoning is an exercise of our will and our faith. This means that in our daily life, we should adopt the attitude that we are dead to the flesh, that we believe in God's word, and that we consider all God's words to be true. God says that our flesh has been crucified with the Lord Jesus; I believe that my flesh is indeed crucified. On the one hand, we believe that we are dead. On the other hand, we adopt the attitude that we are truly dead. If we do this, we will have the genuine experience of dying to sin.
If we reckon this way, we will see the cross freeing us, and the flesh will become powerless. It is true that once we reckon ourselves dead, we will experience instant victory. However, many people experience a gradual deliverance from the power of the flesh. This is either due to their own foolishness or to the lingering of evil spirits. If we persist in faith and if we take the proper attitude in our will, we will eventually overcome. However, this does not mean that henceforth there is no more sinful nature in us and that only the new nature remains. If we say this, we fall into heresy. Not only does this obscure the teaching of the Bible, but it betrays the experience of the saints. Until we are delivered from this body of sin, we will never be free from the "flesh"—the sinful nature—which comes from the body of sin. Even though we have accepted the work of the cross, the fact that the flesh still exists means that we must continually "walk by the Spirit." Only by doing this, will we "by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh."
The cross is the instrument by which we crucify the flesh. The Holy Spirit is the power by which we keep the flesh from resurrecting. On the negative side, we should believe in the co-crucifixion of the cross for the elimination of a life in the flesh. On the positive side, we should walk according to the Spirit so that the flesh will have no chance to be rekindled. Many believers experience the resurrection of their flesh because they fail in this one point. Every time we walk contrary to the Holy Spirit, we give opportunity to the flesh to reign. If in everything we walk according to the Spirit, the flesh will not have any opportunity.
A person can read about this way of overcoming the flesh, the sinful nature, from the Bible; he can hear about it from others. But only when he encounters it in his experience will he realize that it is real. I often tell others that they can experience such a matter the minute they believe. Yet for myself, it took me a long time before I experienced it! What does this mean? Many times we merely strive. Although we say that we trust in the cross, thirty percent of the time we trust in ourselves and in our own "reckoning." Many times God allows us to be defeated so that in the end we would realize that nothing is trustworthy in our experience. Even our own "reckoning" with which we "reckon" ourselves dead is of no merit. This is why it is true to say that as soon as we truly reckon, we have the experience of victory, and it is equally true to say that we enter such experience only through a gradual understanding.
Brothers, by now you can understand our two natures and the way to overcome the flesh. While you are reading, you can exercise your faith to reckon yourself dead to sin, and you can pray that the Holy Spirit of the Lord will apply the cross of the Lord Jesus deeply in you, so that you can overcome sin in your experience. After this, you should resolve to walk by the Holy Spirit. Previously, you have failed in your resolution. Now, you should ask the Holy Spirit to strengthen your will, so that it will be able to incline itself to the new nature. The will is like a rudder; it can turn the whole ship. However, a rudder that does not work is useless. After the Holy Spirit has strengthened you, you should exercise this will to walk according to the Holy Spirit. Remember that the flesh never disappears; it is always there. If you walk by the Holy Spirit, you will be able to crucify the flesh on the cross continually. Otherwise, the flesh will cause suffering to you. The meaning of walking by the Spirit is to trust in the Holy Spirit in a calm way in everything, so that you will bear the nine-in-one fruit of the Holy Spirit. The Lord will lead you experientially step by step into the mystery of this matter. However, on your part, you should be faithful.
After the Holy Spirit has strengthened you, you should exercise this will to walk according to the Holy Spirit. Remember that the flesh never disappears; it is always there. If you walk by the Holy Spirit, you will be able to crucify the flesh on the cross continually. Otherwise, the flesh will cause suffering to you.
This precept is found in Psalm 119...
24 \tYour testimonies also are my delight
\tAnd my counselors.
25 \tMy soul clings to the dust;
\tRevive me according to Your word.
26 \tI have declared my ways, and You answered me;
\tTeach me Your statutes.
27 \tMake me understand the way of Your precepts;
\tSo shall I meditate on Your wonderful works.
28 \tMy soul melts from heaviness;
\tStrengthen me according to Your word.
29 \tRemove from me the way of lying,
\tAnd grant me Your law graciously.
30 \tI have chosen the way of truth;
\tYour judgments I have laid before me.
31 \tI cling to Your testimonies;
\tO LORD, do not put me to shame!
32 \tI will run the course of Your commandments,
\tFor You shall enlarge my heart.
What law is the writer of Psalm 119 praying for when he writes...
"And grant me Your law graciously."
In Christ
Jeff
Watchman Nee also says that it was discovered from ancient Greek manuscripts (non-Biblical) that the Greek word for condemnation found in Romans 8:1 had another usage and meaning which was heretofore unknown. Sometimes it was used to mean weakness or inability. The context of Romans 8 strongly suggests that this is the intended meaning here. From Watchman Nee's book, "The Life That Wins", he writes:
“There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 8.1). In my preaching I have explained the word “condemnation” many times. Some twenty years ago, from an old manuscript excavated from the ground, it was explained that this word in the original Greek language had two usages: one, civil; the other, legal (and thus in this latter sense, the English word “condemnation” is used). According to civil usage, it could be
translated as “without strength” Hence we may legitimately retranslate this verse as follows: “There is therefore now no being without strength to them that are in Christ Jesus” How marvelous this is! Let me ask you again, whose verse is this? Only Wesley’s? or Martin Luther’s? or only Hudson Taylor’s? What does the Scripture say here? It says that those who are in Christ Jesus are no longer without strength. Who are these people? They are all Christians—since every Christian is in Christ, and no one in Christ is without strength.
“The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death” (v.2). I will repeat a hundred times that it is not those special saints who are freed from the law of sin and of death. It is instead true that every Christian is set free from the law of sin and of death. What is meant by being “without strength”? It is what is spoken of in Romans 7: “to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practice” (vv.18b-19). In other words, the total thrust of Romans 7 indicates that I am without strength, I cannot do it. The history of many a Christian is marked by a cycle of resolutions and broken promises. Yet we thank and praise God that His word unmistakably declares that no Christian is now without strength.
Yet we thank and praise God that His word unmistakably declares that no Christian is now without strength.
This is true...Paul writes to the Corinthian church...
1Cr 1:4 ¶ I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Cr 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and [in] all knowledge;
1Cr 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Cr 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Cr 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, [that ye may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And Paul warned the Roman church...
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Paul witnessed to the Corinthians that they having entered into Christ and have been given the "strength" (according to Nee's thoughts), yet many of the Corinthians were still walking according to the flesh...still living under the influence of the carnal mind.
So it is of highest importance that one ask God to reveal the Holy Spirit's voice through the Holy Scriptures. If one says he loves Jesus and yet has not found that Scripture illuminated by the Holy Spirit a treasure that far exceeds anything in this world; one has much soul searching to do...
In Christ
Jeff
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