In a world which is shadowed by a world in which most people spend sitting at a movie theatre or watching television.
Is the cost of giving up something like Non christian music so great or anything.
Do we live in a christian world that is dogged in unreality which gets it gadge of reality by TV shows or the newspapers.
how much of our age and christians that are biblically illiturate, I am not saying people on this site.
The christian world music is hillsong and other things to keep a reality of Jesus whilst keeping things of the World!
A agenda not to change anything in which the church functions.
How many people spend time outside! with Creation.
Are we thankful for Gods creation?
If we wer to question you say on subjects, how would your bible knowledge compare to say other subjects? Would you know more say about friends or a tv series than the bible.
Does god have to wake us up to how he sees things?
Giving up Non Christian Music and Films
I think you are on to something, i think 90% of what i have encountered in my walk with the Lord has nothing to do really, with Jesus or the christian life, most is entertainment dressed up as Christian. It may not be evil or bad or sinful, but it takes our eyes of what is the eternal best for our souls.
90% of all christian movies and music is crap and not worthy to listen to or watch. So easy it is to watch a christian film for two hours, how our legs drag to the two hour prayermeeting with some fellow believers.
May God help me get my priorities right for the kingdom and His Glory
1 Tim 6v8, 'And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
Real sacrifice for the Christian is giving of our finances, Matt 6v1-4, and also fasting, Matt 6v16-18.
Giving up secular entertainment is not a sacrifice, because it is not need.
Many 'Christians' are discontent with what they have, and what they are, because they feel as though they are 'missing out'.
We try to straddle the world and the Church, but God does not compromise His word.
Either we take it or leave it.
To leave God means death.
Is it edifying ?? Is it inspirational ??
Is it truthful ?? Would Jesus listen to
or watch this with you ??
Actually I've seen some pretty decent Christian movies lately. "Second Chances" was pretty good. "Flywheel" had a great story even tho the production was obviously lower budget.
"Facing The Giants" is fantastic.
As far as Christian music is concerned, too many Christians who think themselves super-spiritual tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to music. I'll agree that it seems most Christian music is about $$. No argument there. But there are many artists that really do have something worth saying and listening to.
It's really quite silly to take the entire thing, declare it worldly, and then condemn it all. Thats not being intellectually OR spiritually honest. It's called being judgemental.
I find with music or movies you have to take each one individually and examine it in the light of scripture... just like [b]sojourner7
I also believe a lot of Christian music today is about the artist first and foremost. That is a problem. A BIG problem. We must [b]discern
I'm more concerned about Christians who are living wordly. I went to a wedding this weekend attended by a lot of people from a prominent, very large Southern Baptist Church here in the Asheville NC area. The couple getting married attend there and claim to be born again, and most of the people in attendance claim the be born again. I know a lot of them.
Most everyone here knows I do not share the view that moderate alcohol consumption is a sin. You wont find that anywhere in scripture. However, at this wedding there was more wine and beer than you could shake a stick at, and it was "open bar". They went thru 2 1/2 kegs. Thats rediculous especially considering there were only about 200 people there.
This is the type of thing I am concerned about. Not whether Christian music is ok. I'm more concerned with how people are living. There was NO Christian music being played at the reception either. It was all secular music... some of it very sexual... like "Wild Thing" by Ton Loc.
We left early.
There was no difference between this wedding and other non-Christian weddings we've been to. None what-so-ever. Same secular music, same drinking, same sexual dancing, etc.
By the way, for those quick to condemn Christian music as a whole... I think it says something that all this was going on... and the bride & groom recognized that Christian music would have been out of place there. I think that says something positive about Christian music.
This is the state of the church. No wonder revival isnt happening. The church is too busy partying.
By the way, altho the wedding was not held at that big church and was not officiated by any of the staff of that big church (mainly because the bride and groom couldnt afford the facility rental and cost of their own pastors)... I think what I witnessed at that reception speaks quite loudly about that church.
Krispy
i think we need to look at the money issue, if a group or a film maker do a movie or a record and sells it in the name of Jesus it is wrong. It is the same thing as a pastor would charge a fee for entering the church to listen to his sermons.
And yet so many use the name of Jesus to earn a living, it is Babylon. I dont care if it is "rock" or "hip hop" or calm music.
Money makers in the name of Jesus is Babylon.
There are a few who was called by God and gives their music for free, and i guess movies too. That was not made with the goal set on profit.
It bugs me people can pay entrance fees to see a group play, it is sad the "poor" who cant afford the fee can not enjoy the worship and praise.
it is a deception.
[i]...freely ye have received, freely give...
I disagree with that thinking. Yes, God has called a few to it for free. But He perhaps has not called all.
I heard one artist say once something to the effect of "I will go and preach anywhere for free... not charge a dime. But music is my craft, its what I do... it's how I feed my family."
I'm a structural engineer. I dont design churches for free, I can tell you that. Should I just because they need a building and I'm a Christian? No.
Sad to say, but I've been ripped off and cheated more by churches than I have anyone else I've done business with. I've even had churches ask me if I could give them a discount since I'm a Christian. The answer is always "no".
Thats not a sin. It's called feeding my family. because someone has musical talent we expect them to give it away for free? Why? I have talent... just not musical. But there's something magical about music that Christians think it should be given to them for free?
Krispy
I hear what you are saying Krispy, and it is true.
Yet, there is something different about Christian ministry. So I guess it depends on whether you consider the music or, even, structural engineering to be a ministry.
On one hand, we have musical talents or business men or various specializations that we may consider to be ministries of help. And yet, there is still the balance of a laborer being worthy of his wages.
Personally, in my opinion, if it is a ministry of the Lord it ought to be free. That being those ministries listed in Corinthians, as those ministries are of the Holy Spirit. How can we put a price on the work of the Holy Spirit?
"What's that? O, you would like the Holy Spirit to minister a revival in your church? Ah, yes, we have several payment packages for that! The Premium package comes with a double portion!"
It is indeed a delicate balance between meeting the daily needs of the minister (and family) and ministering unto the Lord (and His family).
It bugs me people can pay entrance fees to see a group play, it is sad the "poor" who cant afford the fee can not enjoy the worship and praise.
Maybe this is a blessing. Could it be that this is one of the ways that the sheep are divided from the goats? For the rich man, trusting in his riches, can not enjoy the things that are free - for he perceives them to be of little or no value. And a greedy man will not offer his services for free for to him this would be foolishness.
the architect are not taking money for something that is [i]needed
I can not find one single occasion where Jesus sold his preaching, healing or any part of His ministry, or His talents he has received from God, I do think he got payed as a carpenter but not selling that what is Gods. Many have filled their pockets in Jesus name and they will have to pay back.
Jesus did not sell his ministry and we should not. We see the result of this thinking clearly in modern Christianity, where money becomes a central part.
HeartSong wrote:It bugs me people can pay entrance fees to see a group play, it is sad the "poor" who cant afford the fee can not enjoy the worship and praise.
Maybe this is a blessing. Could it be that this is one of the ways that the sheep are divided from the goats? For the rich man, trusting in his riches, can not enjoy the things that are free - for he perceives them to be of little or no value. And a greedy man will not offer his services for free for to him this would be foolishness.
My opinion is God is not inside where you have to pay to get in, may it be a WOF meeting with Benny, or a music concert with a popular group.
God will not be bought with a price, neither His spirit
God will not be bought with a price, neither His spirit
Amen.
I must not know what people mean by Christian music. Do people dance to it with one another and worship God with it?
[u]KrispyKrittr wrote[i]As far as Christian music is concerned, too many Christians who think themselves super-spiritual tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to music.
Maybe one way to keep things clear would be if Christian musicians did not call what they do a ministry or present themselves as ministering to the Body of Christ like Krispy doesn’t call his business a “structural engineering ministry”.
[u]KrispyKrittr wrote[i]I'm more concerned about Christians who are living wordly. I went to a wedding this weekend attended by a lot of people from a prominent, very large Southern Baptist Church here in the Asheville NC area. The couple getting married attend there and claim to be born again, and most of the people in attendance claim the be born again. I know a lot of them.[i]By the way, altho the wedding was not held at that big church and was not officiated by any of the staff of that big church (mainly because the bride and groom couldnt afford the facility rental and cost of their own pastors)... I think what I witnessed at that reception speaks quite loudly about that church.
It sounds like their Church “is living worldly” and attracted/taught the couple the same world view. I now have a new question to ask of any church I would attend. “If I and my family are faithful members here to grow up in Christ and one of my children finds God’s choice for a spouse, will they need to plan to pay money to be married in the church? When I die will I need to pay money to be buried in the Church?” Alternatively, one could consider including on the invitations to either service the itemized bill from the Church along with the cost of the ticket to come to the “event”.
OK my spirit does not recommend either of those. My spirit weeps that there are pastors that charge to marry, or bury, ones that they have pastured and nurtured in the Lord and musicians that would charge to play at a wedding or memorial service of brothers and sisters they have worshiped with.
OK, I still have this feeling (in my flesh?) that I want the name of that “church” and want to e-mail them a “Let me see if I’ve got this straight…” kind of note.
I can tell if I write about how many kegs of beer and cases of wine would be acceptable (enough to relax/get a buzz but not fall down drunk..?), there will be a big uproar and I kinda (really) love posters here so I won’t (but did a bit). Besides I don’t really know what a moderate drinker is.
OK, I still have this feeling (in my flesh?) that I want the name of that “church” and want to e-mail them a “Let me see if I’ve got this straight…” kind of note.
Actually I did name the church orginally, but quickly took it out of my post because it could probably become a legal issue not only for myself but also for SI. It's not important which church it is anyway... it's represenative of a lot of churches today.
Back to music... I understand what you're all saying. If it is ministry it should be without charge. I'm not defending people who do charge for ministry. And if you've been here for awhile I very much DO have an issue over money being the bottom line for most of Christian music... and also the fact that ALL of Christian music today in the general market is owned by huge secular companies such as SONY, Fox, etc. That in itself is unscriptural because they are unequally yoked together.
There are some honest musicians out there who do state that music is their craft, and as Christians they write music that is "Christian" because thats where they are coming from. They do not necessarily call it ministry.
My real issue is that we Joe-Christian types sit back and declare any music that mentions Christ to be ministry... and therefore give it to me for free. Thats my contention.
If a musician calls his music "ministry", then yes... there can be a legitimate argument made that he should not be getting rich off the gospel. But lets be real, most Christian music is entertainment... not ministry. Unfortunately most artists cant or wont admit that.
There are those who truly are ministers. Steve Camp comes to mind... and he does offer all his music for free and doesnt charge people to come to his concerts. Keith Green was the pioneer of that.
But then you have a band like the Resurrection Band (now retired after being together from 1972-2000)... a hard rock Christian band who used the proceeds from album and ticket sales to financially support their inner city ministry in Chicago... Jesus People USA. They didnt get rich on their music. There's about 100 people living in that ministry, and each family lives on a "fixed income" (gets a certain "salary"... sharing all things). They run soup kitchens, etc for the homeless and street people etc. Here's an example where the music financially supported the work of the [b]real
I think that is totally acceptable, not to mention creative.
If a band comes to town, says they are a Christian band and can admit that what they are are entertainers... fine. I've been to Christian concerts where I was thoroughly entertained, had a great time, was encouraged in the Lord... and paid for the ticket. I dont have a problem with that.
HOWEVER... if they come to town calling what they do a crusade or a "worship experience"... and they charge people to come and worship... yea, I have an issue with that.
Krispy
Can we just look at the title of the original post of this thread?
I believe it said, 'Giving up NON Christian Music and Films'
So why we have included Christian ones is anyones guess.
Oh well, I'll leave you to it.
Besides I don’t really know what a moderate drinker is.
Someone who drinks only in secular company and never in view of church friends. ;-)
Someone who drinks only in secular company and never in view of church friends.
No, thats a hypocrite. I've never shied away from this topic with church folks. Why? Because telling believers that any consumption of alcohol is a sin is a [b]lie
Does the Bible warn against alcohol? Absolutely. And most believers need to heed that warning. But nowhere in scripture will you find a prohibition against alcohol. But today a lot of Christians are more forgiving toward an adulterer than they are someone who has a glass of wine.
I'm not about promoting the consumption of alcohol... I'm about promoting [b]truth
Krispy
So why we have included Christian ones is anyones guess.
Uhmmm... perhaps you didnt read the original post, which stated this:
The christian world music is hillsong and other things to keep a reality of Jesus whilst keeping things of the World!
No one hi-jacked this thread. The original post headed down that road.
Krispy
I've never shied away from this topic with church folks.
Nor would anyone who knows you ever mistake you for a moderate on any topic Krispy. ;-) That's what I love about you!
MC
lol... yea, you're right.
Thats why I try as hard as I can to stay out of political debates on this forum!
Krispy
Thats why I try as hard as I can to stay out of political debates on this forum!
LOL I find the internet especially frustrating, because you can't tar and feather people who really need it! :-P So it's best to not even bring it up.
MC
Too funny!
Krispy's direct manner reminds me so much of my wife's mannerisms. She is extremely blunt. Some people mistake this attribute as uncaring or an attempt to be rude. However, she is just being honest. When someone asks her abour her opinion, she gives it.
I always know where I stand around her! Whereas I often find myself carefully searching for the right words so as not to hurt or offend, my wife immediately tells the truth (as she sees it)...even when it hurts. I might not always agree with what she thinks, but at least I know, without a doubt, what she thinks! She is typically very quiet, but when asked, gives her opinion in a matter. It is often easy to confuse this as words spoken without love. However, I know that my wife is an extremely compassionate individual. She only speaks from a heart of compassion...even if it is things that others might now want to hear.
I've always appreciated the plain-spoken manner of people like Krispy (and my wife). We might not always agree, but I know that he speaks his heart with sincerity and integrity.
:-)
But you would probably rather kiss your wife than me... I assume! lol
Krispy
I have a good friend who is the same way, honestly blunt.
I can think of a few times we have been invited to visit friend's churches and then been asked, "Well, what did you think?"
Dangerous question that is. And we are left to answer with sincerity and gentleness, but straight if there is anything out of line with the Spirit and truth.
Yes, indeed, good times, good times.
KrispyKrittr wrote:
But you would probably rather kiss your wife than me... I assume! lolKrispy
Ewwwwww. Without a doubt! LOL!
Of course, the Bible does say to "greet all the brethren with an holy kiss" (I Thessalonians 5:26). However, I think that I will wait until we are all in our glorified bodies before I do that!
:-?
I have ponder this and pray over this topic many years. In the Book Ezra, I am reminded of how the Peopl quickly turned away and married the women of the land. Maybe they look to be good wives? Maybe they followed there lust? God made so clear to not marry those of the land. When they did this they had children. When the repented they had to send their wives and children away. The sin, had grown, and was not easy to part with. It was life and way of life. But they sent them away making a vow with the Lord. They desire to obey and be holy. As it say in James Don't love the world or thngs in it.
Moives has become so part of our lives, we couldn't see the sin. It has grown and children have been born, it is now part of us, and it part of us in it. It would be only God to brake us from such sin, and idols that in our lives.
I would dear not say all moives, all time is sin. But I would draw to our hearts, our time, our money, and how are we growing from them? I think there is much more to this then you should or shouldn't. But we need to look at the way we are useing our time and money and how are preaching Christ how are loving others.
But there are many moived we love, that evil, in the fact they say sin is good. For non christan moives, for most we should run Flee from them.
I started reading William Law about the stage, This is a good book to read on this subject.
May we go frist to Christ and ask Him to show us our hearts, may we die to all our own desires and loves. May Love Christ and others, our time is so short, may go and preach Christ...
Charlene