Gods Judgement on President Bush

Could it be this financial crisis is the result
of having forgotten what is printed on our own
currency; IN GOD WE TRUST!!

Hi appoulus...

No offense, but I think that there is a whole lot of speculation going on here. It is almost as if you have "inside knowledge" of the President and his heart in regard to this. I would highly recommend that you refrain from declaring this a "prophecy" unless there is no doubt that it comes from God himself (rather than your own intellect or understanding). Why? There is quite a bit of conjecture.

You make bold statements that cannot be confirmed -- even if you had a face-to-face meeting with the President. Plus you make claims such as "[i]Today, most of the financial institutions are swept away[/i]." Really? Most? The bank that I use may not be perfect...but it doesn't seem phased by the housing situation.

I really fear that we seem to have a bad sense of [i]cause and effect[/i]. We tend to think that Hurricane Katrina was God's judgment on sinful acts that occur in New Orleans -- even though most of the people who passed away were the poor, crippled and elderly who were far removed from the spirit of downtown Mardi Gras. We fail to consider that the Hurricane might have just been a bad scenario that has been warned for nearly 50 years because of New Orleans' location (below sea level at the base of the Mississippi delta). We do the same nearly every time a bank fails, people die, or an earthquake occurs. For every natural disaster that takes place in a "sinful" area, there are many more that hit other more "innocent" places. Yet we focus on the former because they fit our own personal ideas regarding God's judgment.

Perhaps this bank situation is due to God's judgment. Or perhaps it is due to some bad decisions on behalf of borrowers and loaners who were bad with both math and payment deadlines. Regardless, I fear that we are doing the same thing that the disciples did when they asked about the cause of the young man's blindness in John chapter 9. Or are we trying to connect the dots between sin and destruction -- like those who wondered if the people crushed by the Tower of Siloam were sinful, and that their sin had led to their destruction (Luke 13).

However, I think that it is premature and perhaps a bit unwise to lay such an accusation at the President (or at the Lord -- by claiming that He gave you a "word" that might not have even come from His mouth). I just think that we should be extremely careful and prayerful before uttering such things. It would be a terrible thing to find ourselves guilty of "bearing false witness."

:-(

Hi Frank...

I think that you misunderstand me. I certainly believe that the Lord still speaks. I even believe in prophecy. However, I hesitate to accept your words as such (even though you might truly believe that they came directly from God). But I wonder: Why would God give you such a "word?" If He did give it to you, what did you do about it? Did you attempt to speak with the President? Did you write to him a letter and let him know what you thought? Did you write letters to bankers and CEOs of major banking organizations? Or did you sit on those words?

I do believe that God speaks today. Believe me: The Lord has spoken to me in the past with shocking clarity -- specifics that came to pass. Yet I am hesitant to accept a "word" that points the finger at the President or conjects that he was "humiliated" during his speech. It just seems that many of the "words" that people receive today are short on specifics. The potential housing bubble was discussed at great length in one of my Macroeconomic classes as an undergrad! This was not "prophecy." It was cause and effect. It doesn't bode well for banks that give risky loans to people who cannot adequately repay them. It doesn't bode well for a city to be built below sea level in an area prone to high sea surge from hurricanes. It doesn't bode well for a stock market based upon futures that aren't proven to work (such as the "tech bubble" burst of 1999-2000).

When God pours out his judgment, does he rely on statistical probability? Or does His judgment occur in supernatural ways? I don't think that anyone in Egypt assumed that the plagues were anything except supernatural acts. The Israelites who saw their sinful neighbors swallowed up by the ground in an area void of earthquakes probably knew that this was God's judgment. The judgment of God during the period of His Wrath (recorded in Revelation) will be unexplainable. Yet today, we pass off natural disasters and foreseeable financial issues as the result of God's judgment. But there is a difference between judgment and God's ability to use a natural situation to humble a people or draw men unto Him.

I remember hearing about a meeting at Times Square Church. During a quiet time during worship, a person in the congregation loudly uttered a "Thus saith the Lord” type of “word from God" (verbatim). After this person finished, quite a few people clapped as though God had spoken aloud to the people. Brother Wilkerson came to the microphone. He politely rebuked the person who spoke the “word.” Wilkerson asked something to the effect, “[i]At this time in history, at this meeting, on this day: This is what God has to say[/i]?!? [i]God is supposedly going to possess the mouth of a person – and that is all He has to say[/i]?!?”

Brother, I am not saying that I don’t believe what you said. It might have indeed been embarrassing for the President to announce this expensive bank institutional bailout. But to claim without doubt that this is the effect of God’s judgment on the President? Hmmm…you would think that the Lord could direct His judgment on the President in a personal way without affecting millions of Americans who have purchased homes with bad loans. More importantly, don’t you think that it is a bit conjectural to somehow act as though you know the inner thoughts or views of the President?

This is just something to think about. I mean nothing in a sense to offend. As for my bank: They didn’t hand out many of these type of predatory or dangerous loans. They put out a report via email six months ago saying how they were coping in view of the situation that other banks were facing.

The most striking thing to me about our times in our nation is how many serious negative things are going on at once and yet it is almost business as usual among Christians.

Everything that happens gets an excuse until the sky could literally fall and there would be little or no urgency. Concern, but no urgency to do 'something'.

Friends, I believe it is time to face the music. If God lifts one more finger off our land we will likely spend a bag of gold for a loaf of bread. How many caskets are going to have to float down our rivers? How many wars are we going to have to be engaged in at once? We have been baptized in water, how about fire and blood? What will it take before the average Christian or American comes to their sense and realizes something is seriously WRONG!

What's the answer to economic problems in our back yard? Build a 700 Million Dollar casino to milk dry the dusty pocketbooks of the fatherless and the widows. Yes, friends, we are going to face the music. And maybe the masses will gurgle their last words, "God had nothing to do with this" if they want to; but God give us some prophets that will CRY loud and spare not in the face of this apathetic, lukewarm and blind generation.

I think we need to stop also contributing to the delinquency of sinners. Why scratch our heads when we see all these things befall us as if some strange thing happened? As if we have no idea what we could be doing wrong that might, even some remote possibility, be causing our MASS calamity. What do we need a nuclear war?

Shame on us. Shame on us for thanking God for blessing America for 2oo= years and then acting dumb when His hand comes off. Shame on us. That is a backhand to the face like no other.

Dig Sodom up and apologize? Since when did Sodom export and broadcast such wickedness around the globe until it corrupted whole societies? Since when did Sodom bankrupt itself in unparalleled greed until she suffocated in bibles the most plentiful book in the land. Yes, my friends, BRACE yourselves.

Hi everyone,

Appolus, you said

"Now you can accept it or reject it, it will matter not to God."

Are you speaking for God here?

Hi appolus,

Thank you for your response to my question.

In regards to that, and this in particular,

"He gave me a word 4 years ago, I spoke it, I wrote it, I sent it, that is where my responsibiltiy lies and ends."

When you were questioned about this word, you went on to make(what appeared to me to be) a declaration about the heart of God as to this person either accepting or rejecting it.

So, my question again to you is, are you speaking for God there?

I think this is entirely releveant. You have publicly declared that God has given you this word and then you made a declaration as to God's attitude(again, as it appeared to me) of a believer here either accepting it or rejecting it.

Whether or not you claim to be a prophet, you have claimed to speak directly for God here. It seems entirely appropriate to me in considering your claims, to examine your actions here.

Thank you again for your time and patience,

Chris

I don't believe that God has a "judgement on Bush" per se'. I believe that Bush was the instrument in the hand of God for the season. I believe the history books, maybe ten or fifteen years from now (allowing that we have that much time, probably not) will accuratly portray Bush and show the true good he did. He was not perfect by a long shot and has made many honest mistakes, maybe it was because of bad advisors. I do believe he was a man of integrity and has walked in the light he was alotted. Many woes in this country have been aborted because of his presidency. Like it or not he has slowed the judgement of God on this country down enough for God's people to get thier houses in order.

We talk about loss and losing things. work monies, houses etc... and we almost enjoy or relish that thougt as if they (who ever they are) deserve it. As soon as that same judgement touches us on a personal level we cry foul and play a different tune. Woe to thoughs who hope for the day of the Lord, its a day of darkness and trouble and anxiety and stress and heartache. The colapse of America will be the milstone around the neck of the rest of the world. For all America has wrong with it, it still has much right with it.

As to Bushes overview on this present situation, he has already said that in reguards to a "Bail out", if the (taxpayers) gov. doesn't the effects of no involvement may be even worse, but who besides God really knows, mean while the rest of us arm chair quarterbacks can speculate with what little real first hand knowledge we have, but of course the fool answers a matter with only part of the information? Some how I can not see to place the blame on Bush, the dems or the reps or even the liberals in this country, I place the blame on the pulpits in this country and those in the pews, period, end of story, that's right, America under judgement is my fault and your fault! Maybe if we would have just kept our consciences a little cleaner and stretched our faith just alittle more, fasted more prayed more really believe God and His word more, maybe the history books and newspapers and heavenly reporters have a way different view of this whole matter than what we are willing to except. Bush? No way....It's time for judgement to begin in the house of the Lord.

Hi again appolus, and thank you again for your response.

About this,

"Hi Chris....please forgive me if I think you are straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel. I made that statement in regard to when God speaks, despite the reactions of the hearer, it still comes to pass."

You said earlier to the other poster,

"I simply stated what the Lord shared with me, in shocking clarity :) Now you can accept it or reject it, it will matter not to God."

If the sentiment that you suggested above was your intent, it did not at all appear to me to be the case. What you seemed to be saying was that God would be indifferent to this poster's reaction to this word, that is his either accepting or rejecting it.

I don't think this is straining at a gnat at all appollus.

You are making public declarations about the judgments of God and personally interacting with people regarding that when they have questioned you. On the contrary, I think statements like the one you made to Chris are very wheighty.

Thank you again for considering these concerns,

Chris

Brother Frank…

I think that you are truly in danger of speaking words that may or may not be from the Lord. Yet you offer no disclaimer. Instead, you use the words “God told me..,” “the Lord gave me a word,” etc… In other words, the burden of proof for such “words” is now squarely in the lap of God.

But by your own admission, you “spoke against President Bush.” I have noticed that this attitude is reflective in some of your posts. Now, don’t get me wrong: I am not a “Bush defender.” However, I certainly feel that we should be able to rightly divide the word of truth. If a person utters a “word from God,” but interjects much of his own ideas or understanding within it, it ceases to be a “word from God.” I guess it could be a “word from God AND so-and-so.”

Consider what you wrote in your initial post:

The nail is the President, who thinks he is in a sure place.

This is a warning to the Church. All who hang their hopes on this nail will fall when the nail falls.

You flatterers burdened the nail, you burdened down the nail with your hopes and your dreams and your expectations that all belonged before my throne so I will bring down the nail and all that hangs on it.

Leprosy for Shebna , he will be “tossed like a ball,” from the Valley of Vision because of pride and the contempt of the people. His legacy will be one of shame. "

Brother, I don’t know that any true believers places all of his faith and trust on a man, a pocketbook, a bank, or even the temporary securities of this present world. So wouldn’t your “word” be better directed at, say, the Republican National Convention (which might actually have individuals who place all of their faith and trust in President Bush, other such men or the things of this world) or to the Democratic National Convention (where individuals might place similar faith in Obama or his policies)? God certainly wants our faith on Him and Him alone. But this has always been the case. We should be so unattached to the things of this world that we are ready to depart at any moment. Our faith should be on the Lord…and the Lord alone.

When I saw President Bush stand there and speak yesterday and this morning, I have never seen such a humiliated person.

To have to announce policy’s in front of the whole world, which diametrically oppose everything he stands for, is the severest of judgments.

Shebna had to be removed, so that Eliakim could be set up. Shebna represents the man of flesh. He thinks he is secure, he thinks he is prominent, he thinks he is glorious, he is puffed up by pride. Eliakim represents Jesus.

When the American Christians step away from the flesh and raise up the name of Jesus, they will be restored. And what will be restored?

Chris, perhaps you can share what the Lord gave you in the past?

Brother, I know that you mean well. And I certainly do not want to discourage you from sharing those things that are indisputably from the Lord. However, we need to be careful about attributing things to the mouth of God that might very well be from the mind of man. You lay terrible accusations at a man (President Bush) that you do not know. You claim that God told you such things – but you didn’t seem to make an effort to present them to the man (President Bush) himself. This is just a difficult thing to accept as undeniably genuine.

Yes, there is truth behind some of the things that you said. We should not place our faith on the things of this world, but this is an eternal truth and has little to do with the rulers or governments of this present world. Our faith should never rest on a man, a government, other believers, the Church, or the organizations and economies of man. We should be so focused on the face of God that the world and economy around us could come unraveled, and we wouldn’t be greatly fazed.

Please understand that I mean nothing personal by this. I don’t agree with everything in this “word,” and there is nothing even a “tad disingenuous” about it. I love you, dear brother, and hope to see you walk in the fullness of God’s call upon your life.

Hi appolus,

"Did you read the whole thread? The phrase "shocking clarity," is not mine."

Alright, but I wasn't really concerned about that phrase as much as what followed '...Now you can accept it or reject it, it will matter not to God.'

Now if that wasn't your statement(what followed) I am very sorry! as I must have completely misunderstood.

I am content to disagree on Bush.

I am in full agreement with you views that many or much of the church (organized body of professing christians) has placed its hopes on men to do for them what only God can do. But the organized church has always gone down that path, I think thats why Jesus in Rev. said he, and him as in singular and not gender specific (so as not to offend some sisters). Don't you think that the church by in large is set up to place much the our responsibility on one person or one organization to do in our place what we (the many ) really should be doing?

"I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, [and] giving of thanks, be made for all men;

For kings, and [for] all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

"For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;" (1Timothy 2:1-3

The liberal news media has been having a field day throwing stones at president Bush, but are we to join them? The Word of God says that it is God that has given our leaders the authority that they have, and we are to give thanks for them, to pray and intercede for them, so that we might live a quite a peaceable life.

Mike

Appreciate the cordiality amongst you brothers, but this was not a very good idea ...

If we allow this to continue it will not be long before it goes south, the title alone will see to that.

I must therefore go ahead and lock this.

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