It's Revival Or Ruin???

I'm concerned about a statement that someone made recently. I totally agree we need revival but the sugesstion that their will be "ruin" is not scriptural. Yes, if there is not revival there will be ruin but the bible never suggests there won't be. It's not something that we create or will ourselves into. It will happen by faith to God's elect.

My concern is that some can get very militant to the point of going around hacking everyone's ears off like Peter with the high priest servant because their king is coming so you better get out of the way!!!

[b] Revelation 21:2
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.[/b]

Their will be revival. The reason I believe we cannot have revival is because we do not believe. You are a new creation. Do you believe this??? Than just walk in it it's that simple.

I also suggest to you that you listen to Carter Conlon again at the last SI revival conference. He made reference to the fact revivals are happening. Another words what are you waiting for?

Ever heard the saying "JUST DO IT?"

Please listen to this sermon again especially if you have not heard it.

Carter Conlon "Let Me Not See My Wretchedness" #10:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=720

Also [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/search3.php?domains=www.sermonindex.net&q=beware+of+the+angry+watchman&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=www.sermonindex.net&client=pub-2782595449860661&forid=1&channel=3390373323&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23666633%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23CCCCCC%3BVLC%3A666633%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BALC%3A666633%3BLC%3A666633%3BT%3A666666%3BGFNT%3A666633%3BGIMP%3A666633%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en]"Beware of the Angry Watchman"[/url]

Also, I have heard many sermons and many scriptures suggesting that people are not saved in the church. This is TOTALLY true. Their are people not saved in the church but I like this quote by John Owen:

I will not judge a person to be spiritually dead whom I have judged formerly to have had spiritual life, though I see him at present in a swoon (faint)as to all evidences of the spiritual life. And the reason why I will not judge him so is this -- [b]because if you judge a person dead, you neglect him, you leave him; but if you judge him in a swoon,(faint) though never so dangerous, you use all means for the retrieving of his life.[/b]

~John Owen

If you want revival start being a reservoir and be careful your not stuffing up the wells.

I can't get this off my mind. I wonder if alot of us are just weary, frustrated and maybe confused. I like reading Watchman Nee, but I know sometimes even though I know he's right that it's just a matter of accepting who you are and that you no longer live that it just sounds way too simple. Also, we may not like what God puts on our plate. We know we are just supposed to walk but we don't want to walk in THAT we want to walk in something else that we think is so much grander. Typically, the Lord will not give us anything grand until we are willing to accept the crumbs under the table but we don't want to do that, that does not look like revival to us.

What if God calls crumbs revival???

Job 13:15
Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.

Also I certainly hope our prayers are not "give us a revival" but "revive US" or "revive ME!"

Deuteronomy 32:30
How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?

Joshua 23:10
One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you.

I was just listening to [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=14465&commentView=itemComments] Leonard Ravenhill ~ The Bride of Christ.[/url] The bible makes it clear in Revelation that there will be a bride without spot or wrinkle. This is not a hope it's a fact. There's going to be a wedding. The Lord has been speaking to me about the fact that no matter what, who shows up ect... the wedding must go on. If your wedding were today and noone showed up, got sick, stuck in traffic, bad weather, it doesn't matter there is still going to be a wedding. Would I stop preparing for my own wedding if noone else were prepared? No, because I know there is going to be a wedding. Revival is the same way. It's not going to be "ruin". There is no ruin for the bride of Christ, it's just a matter of are you going to be there?

Here are some great quotes on prayer. Prayer is not something where we cause something that God does not will to come into existance but we agree on what God has already declared in His word.

Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance, but laying hold of His willingness.

—Martin Luther

I had rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.

—Thomas Lye

Israel prevailed with God in wrestling with Him, and therefore it is that he prevails with men also. If so be that we will wrestle with God for a blessing, and prevail with Him, then we need not to fear but we shall wrestle the enemies out of it also.

—Alexander Henderson

Furnish thyself with arguments from the promises to enforce thy pravers, and make them prevalent with God. The promises are the ground of faith, and faith, when strengthened, will make thee fervent, and such fervency ever speeds and returns with victory out of the field of prayer.... The mightier any is in the Word, the more mighty he will be in prayer.

—William Gurnall

Prayer is not appointed for the furnishing of God with the knowledge of what we need, but it is designed as a confession to Him of our sense of the need. In this, as in everything, God's thoughts are not as ours. God requires that His gifts should be sought for. He designs to be honoured by our asking, just as He is to be thanked by us after He has bestowed His blessing.

—Arthur W. Pink

Prayer is not intended to change God's purpose, nor is it to move Him to form fresh purposes. God has decreed that certain events shall come to pass through the means He has appointed for their accomplishment.

—Arthur W. Pink

Prayer is the way and means God has appointed for the communication of the blessings of His goodness to His people.

—Arthur W. Pink

The prevailing idea seems to be, that I come to God and ask Him for something that I want, and that I expect Him to give me that which I have asked. But this is a most dishonouring and degading conception. The popular belief reduces God to a servant, our servant: doing our bidding, performing our pleasure, granting our desires. No, prayer is a coming to God, telling Him my need, committing my way unto the Lord, and leaving Him to deal with it as seemeth Him best.

—Arthur W. Pink

Real prayer is communion with God, so that there will be common thoughts between His mind and ours. What is needed is for Him to fill our hearts with His thoughts, and then His desires will become our desires flowing back to Him.

—Arthur W. Pink

Prayer is not so much an act as it is an attitude—an attitude of dependency, dependency upon God.

—Arthur W. Pink

I have benefited by my praying for others; for by making an errand to God for them, I have gotten something for myself.

—Samuel Rutherford

sojourner7 wrote:
Thanks, Rebecca, for sharing some things worthy
to consider. What I see is not so much revival
as restoration; restoration of a redeemed people
chosen of God and sanctified by His truth and
His precious blood to be His Own possession.
There will also be a restoration of the kingdom
He has promised and purposed to give His Only
Son and our Savior, Christ Jesus.

Amen, I fully intend on going through! Praise the Lord... and we will and are! Present tense...and it's nothing that I do but He's done it all and will continue to for He gets all the glory all the time! Noone will take His glory from Him. There is going to be a wedding and we will be in white without spot. That's something to shout about today. I know I am. I'm praising the Lord today.. I'm so excited!!! Those giants are goin down! :-) It's already been foretold.

Revival only happens to the remnant. If your not a part of that remnant or called to be than there is no revival. My husband and I feel we are called to be prophets in the church we are attending. We have always spoken up when we have seen things going on in the church that shouldn't be. Some maybe would just leave and not feel led to do that and that's ok.

So far we have spoken out against Halloween and because they placed Buddahs on the table at the missionaries conference and gave them fortune cookies. We do not anticipate many of them supporting us. When God tells us it's time to go than we will. But we do not expect revival here. You can't go around expecting professing christians to revive. They may or they may not. Just obey God!

[size=small]For instance, whereas Noah was a mighty good ship builder, his main occupation wasn’t ship building, it was preaching. He was a terrible failure as a preacher. His wife and three children and their wives are all he had.
Seven converts in 120 years you wouldn’t call particularly effective. Most mission boards would have asked the missionaries to withdraw long before this. I say as a ship builder he did quite well, but as a preacher, he was a
failure. And then we come down across the years to another man by the name of Jeremiah. He was a might effective preacher, but ineffective as far as results were concerned. If you were to measure statistically how successful Jeremiah was, he would probably get a large cipher. For we find that he lost out with the people, he
lost out with royalty, even the ministerial association voted against him and wouldn’t have anything to do with him. He had everything fail. The only one he seemed able to please was God……but otherwise he was a distinct failure. And then we come to another well known person, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was a failure from judging
all the standards. He never succeeded in organizing a church or denomination. He wasn’t able to build a school.
He didn’t succeed in getting a mission board established. He never had a book printed. He never was able to get any of the various criteria or instruments that we find and are so useful; I’m not being sarcastic at all, they
are useful. And our Lord preached for three years, healed thousands of people, fed thousands of people, and yet when it was all over there were 120….500 to whom he could have revealed Himself after His resurrection.
And the day that He was taken, one man said, "If all the others forsake you, I’m willing to die for you." He looked at this one and said, "Peter, you don’t know your own heart. You’re going to deny me three times before the
cock crows this morning." So all men forsook Him and fled. By every standard of our generation or any
generation, our Lord was a single failure.
The question comes then to this, what is the standard of success and by what are we going to judge our lives and our ministry? And the question that you are going to ask yourself, "Is God an end or is He a means?"

~Paris Reidhead[/size]

rbanks wrote:

Oh what a difference the pentecostal blessing made in that fisherman's life!

And that pentecostal blessing came out of obedience and nothing more.

That's God's business if we ever have a revival. If we have one great. I've got Him and He's got me. I want God. I'll take God and a revival or else I'll just take God. Outside of that you can never have a revival.

ginnyrose wrote:

And that pentecostal blessing came out of obedience and nothing more.

Use the word obedience and someone will be sure to brand you "legalistic"!:-?

ginnyrose

That's what I like about you Sandra, your straight up! :-)

I don't mind being branded legalistic whatsoever. Faith without works is still dead.

rbanks wrote:
those disciples in that upper room had left everything upon the words of Jesus and became the outcasts of that world in their day.

They burned the bridge behind them and never looked back. That is what it's going to take in our day if we are going to experience God the way they did.

Amen brother, so many times I think we focus too much on the results. I was listening to "Ten Shekels and A Shirt" today and it just hit me all over again. Jeremiah, was an effective preacher as many were but ineffective as far as results were concerned. God just wants obedience out of a pure heart and we'll leave the results to Him.

I just wanted to throw this into the mix too. My husband and I were discussing this tonight at dinner. First of all I think it would be great if there is a revival or awakening. On the other hand scripture clearly says that there will be a falling away and my thinking is that a revival (if you want to call it that) will actually be more likely to happen when the man made church falls away from the true church. Gary Wilkerson, mentioned once that he believed the true church was going into exile. I have heard some including ministers say the day is coming when the church doors will be shut. Now that to me is an awakening. Seeing others rejecting the word of God to me is an eye opener. My husband said this would be the worse time to be fooling around with the world when were living in such perilous times and facing even greater problems. It seems the falling away will happen all at once because the way it is discribed by that word alone is that it's much different than backslidding.

I don't want to see anyone fall away but I feel like if your going to serve satan than serve him. If your going to serve God than serve Him with all your heart and get off the fence.

I'm actually looking forward to the falling away. It's sad but they were never truly saved to begin with and it's bound to happen. I really feel like that is when we will finally have revival. Persecution and suffering brings revival. Just take a look at China or anywhere else where revival is happening.

Also I really don't like calling it a revival, I like to use the word awakening. The word revival to me has been so abused and it brings in so many connotations and ideas about how it's supposed to happen. To be awakened is enough. If there are signs, wonders and healings than great.

As Zac Poonen, says here the hypocrites defile the house of God. I don’t want to see anyone fall away but it will happen and it is God’s way of cleansing the church. These are people who are in the church, heard the word of God, tasted the heavenly gift and trodden it under their feet will eventually fall away. They are defiling God’s people and our children with their carnality and all of their worldly baggage that they are dragging into the church of God. I see it everyday with my own two eyes. All of the hip hop music, break dancing, Halloween, witchcraft, hatred, division, strife, idolatry, adultery, fornicating, mockery of holiness, sleazy attire, parties, false teachings, and mishandling of God’s money will all come to an end. These are mockers and God haters. They never had the love of God in their heart.

“…Many churches today claim to be "New Testament churches", because of certain distinctive features like "believer's baptism", "speaking in tongues", "praise and worship", "weekly breaking of bread" etc., But none of these are the identification mark of a truly New Testament church. The mark of a true New Testament Church is this that God is in its midst as a consuming fire - a fire that terrifies sinners and makes hypocrites tremble.

[b]I am not surprised when carnal people leave our church, or fall away - because this is proof that the consuming fire is still burning in our midst. When hypocrites and carnal people leave a church, that is a good sign. It is a sign that God is working in power in such a church. It is when spiritually-minded, God-fearing people leave a church, that the church should sit up and take stock of its position. That would be akin to the best students leaving a school and joining another in the same locality. Then the first school should ask itself, "Why did they leave?".

If the fire is not burning in our midst, then many people will continue to remain with us.[/b] It is still possible that there are haughty, insincere hypocrites in our churches even today. I don't know, because I am not God! But I am absolutely certain of one thing: As long as God is present in our midst as a consuming fire, one day or the other, all such hypocrites will be exposed, if they do not repent and set matters right. There is no partiality with God - He will even expose hypocritical elders, as we see in Revelation 2 and 3.

God is longsuffering, but His patience will come to an end one day.[b] The one who defiles the church of God will himself be destroyed by God - that is certain (1 Cor.3:17). God does not remove those who are imperfect, or those defeated by sin. But He removes the insincere….”[/b]

~Zac Poonen

“…It is the sovereign rule that is going to solve and settle this whole problem. You cannot say that the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of God is like that which is pictured in this parable - an awful mixture. It is not. The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom of Heaven, is one thing, and only the sovereign rule of God can bring out into clearness what is of God.

But that will happen as we go on. We can trust the sovereign rule. That is very practical: it works like this. There are those who are truly of God, of Heaven; and then there are those who come in - who perhaps sing the hymns, use the phraseology, carry on the same way, associate with those of the Kingdom; but there is a difference. Deep down, they are really "not of us". They are just imitations; they are not real, not the genuine thing. We may discern, as these men discerned, that there is something here that is not the same thing, something that is foreign, that is alien and strange. What are we going to do? Had we better turn them out, tell them to go?

No, no! Go on long enough, and they will go of themselves. The two things will be self-manifested, and it will be quite easy in the long run. [b]"They went out from us", said John, "...that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us" (1 John 2:19). This is a heavenly principle, you see - there is a manifestation. It is difficult to endure patiently those people who you sense have not, as we say, the root of the matter in them - who are just camp-followers. But, as with the mixed multitude that left Egypt with Israel, time and testing will find them out. This is the way if the Kingdom, the sovereignty, operates, and it calls for much faith, and much patience….”[/b]

~T. Austin Sparks

I am looking forward to the enemy--satan--leaving God's sanctuary among God's people. A seperation has to take place and it will.

My husband had a vision awhile back when we first started attending this church. He saw in his vision something that looked like a huge ape on top of the church building and he was pounding his chest in victory. Shortly after a minister fell.

Now we are seeing problems in this church we never had back then and it's spiritual warfare but the enemy is defeated and God will get the victory. God has called us to be prophets and to speak out against what we see in the church and we will continue to do so wherever He calls us.

[b]"...Defiling The Church With Impurity[/b]

The spirit of the antichrist seeks to "defile the holy place" (v.31). There is tremendous opposition to the message of holiness and righteousness from Satan. The spirit of the antichrist also encourages "disregard of the covenant" (v.32).
The new covenant promises a life of victory over sin. But the antichrist tells believers that it is impossible to live such a life.
The main reason why our own ministry as a church has been opposed in the last two decades throughout India, has been because we have preached holiness and righteousness. We have proclaimed the fact that "sin need not be master
over us any longer" (Rom.6:14), that "those who love money cannot love God" (Lk.16:13), that "those who are angry with and despise others are guilty enough to go to hell" (Matt.5:22), that "those who lust after women with their eyes are also in danger of perishing in hell" (Matt.5:28,29), etc., Since these words of Jesus are unpalatable to the vast majority of
believers, they have opposed us.
We have stood against the unScriptural salary system for Christian workers (something that was unheard of in the first century) and the unScriptural begging for money that characterises Christian work in India. This has earned us the wrath of those who make a living through their preaching, and who build their private empires thereby.
We have also stood against personality-cults in the church, popery, denominationalism, Western domination of churches in India, and the unhealthy dependence on Western leadership that has hindered the development of the church here.
This has infuriated the cultistic groups.
Satan's aim is to corrupt God's sanctuary in one way or the other. He places his "forces" (Dan.11:31) within the church, in order to destroy God's work from within. The history of Christendom reveals how these forces have succeeded in corrupting group after group, and movement after movement, through all these 20 centuries.
The main reason for the church's failure has been that the watchmen whom God appointed in the church did not remain alert and awake. How did Satan succeed in putting these watchmen to sleep? In some cases, by making them afraid to
speak the truth lest they offend some people - especially the rich and the influential. In some other cases, by making them wife-pleasers, and lovers of money and of good food.
In some cases, the watchmen themselves got tired of facing constant opposition to their message, as they sought to maintain God's standards in the church. And so they toned down their messages to please men.
In Hebrews 12:3, we are told to consider Jesus "Who endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that we may not grow weary and lose heart". Who were these sinners who opposed Jesus? They were not the prostitutes or the murderers or the thieves in Israel. Nor were they the Romans or the Greeks. No. The sinners who opposed Jesus constantly, were the Bible-thumping preachers and religious leaders in Israel. They were jealous of Jesus and finally
killed Him.
If we follow Jesus, we will face opposition from the same group of people even today. Our greatest opposition will come from the preachers who have lowered God's standards and corrupted the church. These will be Satan's chief agents to
oppose us. It is very easy for us to get tired of facing this constant opposition, and to get discouraged.

Satan tries to "wear down the saints of God through persecution" (Dan.7:25). The only way to overcome is by looking at the example of Jesus Who faced opposition constantly, until He was killed by His enemies. We too must be willing to "be faithful unto death". Any preacher who is unwilling to face opposition until the end of his life, will end up as an ear-tickling
preacher, who will "flatter people to win them over to his side" (Dan.11:32), and end his days as a compromising Balaam.
Our calling as a church is to preserve God's standards at any cost in our midst. We have to be on guard against the forces of the antichrist at all times. Paul had preserved the church in Ephesus in purity, by God's grace, during the three years that he was there. But he told the elders when he was leaving that he was certain that corruption would come in, after his departure (Acts 20:29-31). And sure enough, it did, as we read in the Second letter to the Ephesians (Rev.2:1-5)....

~Zac Poonen [url=http://www.obeyjesus.net/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=354]Warnings to the Church For the Last Days[/url]

So you would rather have the church stay carnal???

I agree with Zac Poonen:

"..We read in Scripture of yet another ministry - and this is the exact opposite of this "Daniel-ministry" - a "Lucifer-ministry".
In Revelation 12:4, we read that Lucifer succeeded in getting millions of angels to follow him in his rebellion against God.
Why did God permit Lucifer to lead so many angels astray? So that heaven could be purged of all the disgruntled and
rebellious angels. Their evil hearts would not have been exposed, had not a Lucifer arisen in their midst to lead them in
their rebellion against God.
And so, even today, God will allow brothers and sisters to have a Lucifer-ministry in the church. They will be permitted by
God to go around from house to house backbiting, accusing, telling lies and speaking evil, so that all the disgruntled,
rebellious and worldly believers in the church can be identified, exposed, gathered together and taken out of the church -
so that the Body of Christ can be purified.
[b]God will not stop those who are engaged in such a Lucifer-ministry from moving around the church, any more than He
stopped the original Lucifer in heaven, millions of years ago. That is Divine wisdom.
We are never to fight with such brothers and sisters either. God Himself will preserve the church, and at the right time,
He will destroy those who defile the church (1 Cor.3:17). But God is long-suffering and waits many years before He
judges - because He does not want anyone to perish, but wants everyone to repent. In Noah's time, He waited 120
years. But when God does judge, His judgment will be severe.[/b]
It is foolish therefore to boast that a church has never had a split. There was a split in heaven itself, among the angels,
right at the beginning. Such splits are necessary, for "there must be divisions, so that those who are approved (by God)
can become manifest" (1 Cor.11:19).
[b]The light has to be separated from the darkness. That is not a split. It is a cleansing. Without it, God's testimony on earth
will be corrupted.
All of us can have either a Daniel-ministry - building unity and fellowship in the church - or a Lucifer-ministry - sowing
discord...."[/b]