Ten Indictments (A Historical 21st Century Message) by Paul Washer (OVER 1000 DOWNLOADS IN 6 HOURS!)

awesome, this is great, i couldn't go to it but now i can hear it. Your all a blessing

I listened in last night and was blown away by P.W. I had heard some of what he said before (I have always loved his sermon on Regeneration) but it was still so fresh and powerful! I loved it!

I posted the link and Greg's message on my blog to try to get it out to more people :)

Eagerly awaiting the video!

In Him, Chanin

i will put it on prayway.com and to my friends, hey thanks for it.

Is there anything in the works for getting the video of Paul Washer preaching up for downloading?

Amazing. Excellent. Powerful.

May we all take it to heart. May God use it to bring change!

BoG, I believe Greg mentioned in an email that they were working on getting it on video :)

I watched it last night. I would certainly recommend it! Be warned: It is not for those with folly of heart. But then again, it might help them recognize such folly.

I saw the sermon was two hours long. Being that I don't have two hours to listen to a sermon, could somebody give me a cliff-notes version of the 10 things?

Free up your schedule a bit and listen to this one-- it'll be worth it to you, I'm sure. :-)

Taken from a post by HeartSong

Ten Indictments:

1) A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture.
2 Tim 3:15. The Bible being inspired is only half the battle - the question is, is the Bible sufficient? What do we have to do with all of these modern day social experts that are actually against the word. Everything needs to be based upon the Word of God. All should rest upon "What is Thy will O God." God is the seeker. We are not called to build empires - we are called to glorify God. Isaiah 8. There is always a new fad - and we're always looking for a new theory. Why are we consulting the spiritually dead?

2) An ignorance of God. Many love their image of God rather than God. Psalm 50. People don't know God. 1 Cor 15:34. When is the last time you attended a conference on the attributes of God? To know Him is eternal life. To know HIM. Sunday is the greatest hour of idolatry in the entire week - we've made a god just like ourselves.

3) A failure to address man's malady. Man must be made aware of self in order to turn themselves over to God. The Spirit of God upon us will make others fall to the floor in despair of their sin. We are saying peace, peace when there is no peace. No one has ever been able to bear the witness of the Spirit. We esteem self more that we esteem God. As the night became dark, the stars come out in their glory. . . .the backdrop of our depravity.

4) An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ. We do not know the gospel - we have reduced it to four little steps. The gospel begins with the nature of God, and then to the nature of man - if God is just - He cannot forgive you - Christ redeemed us from the curse - He became the curse for us. God turned away because His Son became sin. The cup was the cup of God the Fathers wrath.

Gospel reductionism - when there is no power, then we go to the tricks that do not work. When we catch a glimpse of what He did on that tree, we will not need anything else.

As Abraham did with his son, God did with His Son and slaughtered Him.

5) An ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration. Calvinism is not the issue, regeneration is. It is the work of God - He recreates man. We are always Ezekiel standing in the valley of dry bones, and they are always dry - once we understand that we no longer need to manipulate. Ye must be born again. If any man be in Christ he is a new creature.

The idolatry of descisionism.

6) An unbiblical Gospel invitation. Evangelism begins with the nature of God - who is God. We are crying out for revival, but don't even have the foundation straight. Everybody wants to go the heaven, but they just don't want God to be there when they get there. Men are haters of God.

We have no authority to tell men that they are saved. The doctrine of the uncarnal Christian has sent many men to hell. A tree is known by it's fruit.

. . . working till Christ be formed - John 3:16 (Praise the Lord!)

7) Ignorance regarding the nature of the church. "It's the church stupid" - Jesus gave His life for the church. There is not a remnant of believers inside a larger unit called the church. The remnant is the church. Pastors and preachers don't know what the church is. The lambs are getting blamed for all the things the goats are doing. Jeremiah 31:31. There is a difference between the new and the old covenant. He writes the laws within our hearts - we will know Him.

Just because we say it is so does not make it so.
Jeremiah 32:38. He will pull a people. One heart and one way. The church is one - she has always been one. (Praise the Lord!)

Do not say the church is full of sin - do not speak of the bride that way - it is the goats. We will have to answer if we say such things. We are being cowards . . . the bride of Jesus Christ is precious to God. Luke 39. Christ in His Holiness.
If you have no fear of Him it is sign (that you are not in Him).

8) A lack of loving and compassionate church discipline. We confront culture by obeying God. Just have an obedience sign and the world will hate you. We can either start obeying God and discipling ourselves or God will do it for us.

One on one discipleship - people are not getting converted. You can't teach a goat into a sheep.

9) A silence on separation. Holiness. It goes back to regeneration and the providence of God - He will see to it that the work that has been begun will be finished. He let Esau run wild, but He beat Jacob to death almost everyday of his life - lovingly.

You can judge a book by it's cover - you will know them by their fruit. The puritans made an attempt to bring everything in their life under the (subjection) of Jesus Christ.

If we want the power of Him upon us - things will have to go. Do not be bound together with unbelievers. Come out from among them.

10) A replacement of the Scriptures with psychology and sociology in regards to the family. There is no authority apart from the Word of God. God doesn't need us but He does command that we are obedient. God doesn't have a plan B. Sunday school and youth groups - Proverbs 13:20 - focus should be on men teaching their own families. Not kids teaching kids.

i have a question, is their a video version of this?

If their is how can i get it?

Thanks much.

Hi Watered,

As far as I know there is not one yet - but I am sure that there will be.
Keep checking back.

This is an awful sermon. I don't say that because I don't believe what he is saying, I say that because I DO believe what he is saying. The implications are astounding to me. I am so troubled.

Many state churches have historically taught the error of baptismal regeneration.

Many evangelical churches have historically taught the error of decisional regeneration (as Pastor Paul Washer taught).

Both errors have promised an assurance of salvation that was too easy and often false.

Luke 13:24 "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able".

brother jimmy,

you got to FIND the two hours to listen to this fully.

Brother Greg,

We have been having prblems continualy trying to download this sermon here in Edmonton. We cannot get the whole sermon to download so we can burn onto CD's.

Any thoughts or similar problems like this anyone else?

This is a copy of my own [url=http://biblebasesecondthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/10/paul-washer-10-indictments.html]second thoughts blog.[/url]

I am about half way through listening to the recent message of Paul Washer given at the Sermonindex Revival Conference in the USA. I have listened to 5 of the indictments and wanted to get draw your attention to this ministry. I know nothing about Paul Washer but I have disturbed my dog several times with loud "amens" on our morning walks!

If you are English in temperament don't be put off by the delivery. This is a man with a passion and a message that needs to be heard. His main thesis is that we ought not to be asking God for revival until we have done what He has already told us. That is a rather abrupt summary and he is not against praying for revival but his burden is that the 'church' and particularly evangelical preachers have been grossly unfaithful to the revelation of the scripture.

One thing that has really impressed me is his return to the theology of Penal Substitutionary Atonement. Finney is conspicuously absent from his quotations. So much that I have heard recently has come from the Finney position on Atonement that it is like a breath of fresh air to hear Penal Substitutionary Atonement preached with such conviction. You find that in indictment 3.

His 10 indictments are: (with timings - approximate)

1. a practical denial of the sufficiency of scripture \t(0:12:25)

2. an ignorance of God\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(0:19:10)

3. a failure to address man's malady\t\t\t\t\t(0:25:00)

4. an ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration\t\t(0:43:07)

5. an unbiblical gospel invitation\t\t\t\t\t(0:51:55)

6. ignorance regarding the nature of the church \t\t(1:07:07)

7. a lack of loving and compassionate church discipline\t(1:22:00)

8. a silence on separation\t\t\t\t\t\t\t(1:28:32)

9. psychology and sociology have replaced the scriptures with regard to the family\t\t\t\t\t(1:35:55)

10.untitled(1:45:45)

You can download or listen to the message HERE

PS. I have listened to the whole message now. If you will excuse the manner of expressing this... you have to listen to this message.

Since the saints have so highly commended it, I will try to make time Saturday morning to listen to it entirely (though, probably not without any disruptions).

Greg

Thanx so much for all you did with the conference. I was only able to be there for Paul Washer, but what a divine movement it seemed to be to hear this. Your website and ministry has been a vessel for God to show me the more excellent way more than once, and I think many of us here feel the same way. I know God gives everything, but you have been a willing vessel; so I pray that you would continue to do so.

Listening to the sermon, and hearing these precious men all around me in the building agreeing with so much of what was said did make me want to shout, but moreso, it was so relieving to be around people who don't think you're crazy for saying things like he did. I had many tears that night and still do thinking about it, and honestly felt that being there was one of the times in my life that I truly felt God spoke to me.

To hear about the reviving of young people towards truly biblical principles, and the shrug off we have received from much of the contemporary church, did strengthen my spirit; but just to know that there are other sheep out there who are being pushed in directions they don't want to go, and basically written off, is so comforting.

Brother Paul, if you ever read this: be encouraged and don't shut up!

For those of us who listened to what the spirit had to say to the church we were awakened I was destroyed by this message. But this is the nature of such a prophetic word. It first destroys and then builds Read Jeremiah chapter 1. The weight and power of this word still crushes me today and I pray that by Gods grace it never, never leaves me. I believe that before revival takes place we need a personal reformation and Mr Washer provides 10 TEN INDICTMENTS that are not just for corporate reflection but for personal reflection. May you listen to this message may it shake you, may you stand at the base of Mount Sinai as and see the God who Thunders The God who has smoke coming from his nostrils( Psalm 18 and 97 The God who can't be reasoned with nor explained Isaiah 40 and Ezekiel 1 The ineffable GOD. and may the blast of his horn blow calling his people to repentance and holiness and may this happen to us so that we can say as moses did to Gods people of his day

Exodus 20:20

And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.

Please listen to this message Gaze upon God Look unto him, stand with and in him who is a consuming fire that we may be purged from the dross of iniquity and compromise. Be blessed Dear Saints.

I listened to about 80 minutes of this while I was shoveling my driveway (the second time in less than 24 hrs :-? ) and all I could think of was "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

I think it is clear that God is getting His church back on track in a way that is even more powerful and lasting than what we ever hoped for in a historical Revival. He is blessing what is [i]of[/i] Him and allowing what is not to dry up and die. Many of us have wearied ourselves trying to hold together a system that God cannot bless.

Perhaps we are worn out enough to realize and finally accept what God is doing and will allow him to have His way.

I think it is clear that God is getting His church back on track in a way that is even more powerful and lasting than what we ever hoped for in a historical Revival. He is blessing what is of Him and allowing what is not to dry up and die. Many of us have wearied ourselves trying to hold together a system that God cannot bless.

Amen. God's end is to present to Christ the church in all her glory, without spot, blemish, or wrinkle. Lot's of washing, scrubbing, and ironing will happen until that time. But, if passages like Ephesians 4:11-13 are to be believed (which I believe they are), then God has an overall aim that is greater than any "revival" that may happen. He's seeking to make a church that is "apostolic" through-and-through.

I long for such a church.

Thanks to this website, Paul Washer was able to deliver this message right into our place of business. Something of a memory today to hear the tenor cries of Paul Washer coming out of a couple of office doorways.

A combustive message that fires up the boiler inside the idling Christian. May we have the humility to direct the steam to our wheels, and not just our whistles.

I can not even presume to shout "amen" to it. Much of it exposes me. It is prophetic in the surest sense---a steel razor edged affirmation of the Word of God plowing my hardened heart. May God show me what to do with such a far-reaching message.

Blessings,

MC

John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress did not teach instant regeneration or instant assurance. Pilgrim travelled a significant distance before he came to regeneration and assurance.

Pilgrim asked "what must I do to be saved?" but Evangelist guided him through the Slough of Despond. Even after the Wicket Gate, joy and assurance were not immediate.

Paul Washer likewise lamented easy formulas like A-B-C and 1-2-3-4 and reminded us that God alone knows which hearts are sincere and that God must do a supernatural work to bring about regeneration and saving conversion.

You're so right..."the Spirit of the Lord is a Spirit of Prophecy". In a time when many self proclaimed prophets are prophesying out of their own spirits and for their own edification, it is a blessing to hear a voice from the throne room. I have not heard such unction since I heard David Wilkerson bring forth "The vision" warning of all the evil we now live with. Nothing Paul said was 'shocking" and much of it confirmed my own heart and what I have been seeing and saying for many years...Yet...It is wonderful when it is the Lord's man in the Lord's time. I think this word will indeed accomplish the purpose for which it was sent and bring many of us to repentance. I feel as though I personally have experienced major surgery and will be in the recovery room for some time.

thank you Jesus and bless you Paul.

I have been thinking that what we need now is to recognize these areas of deficiency and resolve to preach and teach [i]rightly[/i]. We need ministry and teaching that will answer these 10 Points.

I am concerned also for the name of God being blasphemed among the Gentiles as Paul Washer stated; so I do not think that we should focus on what is 'wrong' in such a way so as to miss the fact that God has shown these things not for criticism sake, but for repentance. Simply stated, I don't want to see this message as the latest slam on the Church. I think God has called us to task. Now we need action.

I couldn't agree with you more, brother. This message applies to the church as a whole, not just America.

It's one thing to hear a message like this and react.

It's a whole other matter to actually repent and go back and do the first works.

Things like this should (and it's my prayer that it will) stir the body of Christ to prepare herself, to make sure she is adorned for the day she will meet her Bridegroom face to face.

Blessings, all. Been quite a while since I've been on.

Hi.

I didn't see where these were listed on this thread. Sorry if already posted.

To whoever typed this sermon up so fast... thank you tremendously! God bless you.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=17377&commentView=itemComments]Full Service with music[/url] / [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=17379&commentView=itemComments]CD Version - Part 1[/url] / [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=17380&commentView=itemComments]CD Version - Part 2[/url] /
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=23678]Text Transcript - Part 1[/url] / [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=23679]Text Transcript - Part 2[/url] / [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=23680]Text Transcript - Part 3[/url]

Help me reconcile this teaching with the need for fellowship.
My spirit explodes with an "Amen!" hearing this type of stuff. Ravenhill makes me want to pray all night long. My heart burns within me.

Having said that, I have a side effect. I use this as an analogy. You take medicine for an intended purpose then it produces unwanted side effects. The unwanted side effect is the mind set that I can not fellowship in most churches. I tend to feel repulsed be the programs and worldliness of many churches. This causes me to stay away. Yet, I feel the need for fellowship. I think God has designed us for fellowship. So what do we do with this revelation? Do we leave our churches? Do we remove ourselves from the apostate church? Where do we go from here?
Will you say, we just need to pray and cry out for revival. That's fine. But to what degree do we maintain fellowship?
This is good medicine. But is there any help for the side effects?

I cannot fully address your question...but I can respond as one who has spent many years isolated in the wilderness...This is to say nothing for or against any institution...but FIRST....Our fellowship, our koionia is with the Father through His son Jesus Christ in the Holy Ghost and we are the sheep of His pasture. Jesus said, my sheep know my voice and they hear me. Few, precious few truly know God (this was one of the first points in this message)...I would tell you in prayer, in the study and meditation upon his word, in your secret closet seek Him, get close to him...do not ask us online as though the cry of your heart can be satisfied by some theological position on "fellowship"...Ask HIM...and keep on asking. Study His word...pray over it until you are able to say, "here is what the Lord has shown me." Fellowship with brothers is wonderful...having a father in the Lord is great and a great blessing...But knowing god is the Whole enchilada. He will guide you..you will know "the way" if you learn to know His voice. When you get close to Him everything else seems to fade into the background!

Hi Bro. Josh,

Blessings, all. Been quite a while since I've been on.

Good to hear from you.

-----------

I am hoping that we could prayerfully seek the Lord for direction on dealing with these 10 indictments. Some of us are in situations that are difficult. I personally function within and outside of the established denominations depending on the ministry. We need to pray that God will open hearts and minds to receive what He is saying. We have an uphill battle ahead of us.

God Bless,

Robert

One more note. Stay where you are..do not seek to leave or to "break fellowship"...DO NOTHING...Bloom where you are planted.just make seeking the Lord your number one priority. There is no reconciliation needed between fellowship and this message. The Lord will answer all your questions in due season.

Ask and you shall receive. Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be opened unto you.

One thing of note, When Mr. Washer started this message he gave it the title "An Indictment of Hope". In our response we seem to have left the hope part off.

I know there is a fierce battle ahead in putting shoes on this message but there is indeed hope...

Speak now to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, and to the residue of the people, saying, Who is left among you that saw this house in her first glory? and how do ye see it now? is it not in your eyes in comparison of it as nothing? Yet now be strong, O Zerubbabel, saith the LORD; and be strong, O Joshua, son of Josedech, the high priest; and be strong, all ye people of the land, saith the LORD, and work: for I am with you, saith the LORD of hosts: According to the word that I covenanted with you when ye came out of Egypt, so my spirit remaineth among you: fear ye not. For thus saith the LORD of hosts; Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land; And I will shake all nations, and the desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory, saith the LORD of hosts. The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts. [b]The glory of this latter house shall be greater than of the former[/b], saith the LORD of hosts: and in this place will I give peace, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Hag 2:2-9)

In Christ,

Ron

I listened to the sermon and thought it was pretty good. But, it's no Ten Shekels and a Shirt. I'd probably give it 4 stars out of 5. Honestly though, it seemed like much of it was a combination of other sermons I've heard Washer preach before. There is some really good stuff in it.

Though, I must say I strongly disagree with statement 6 about how there is nothing but unity within the body of Christ, and other statements he makes about "carnal Christians." Granted, I understand he's making such statements from his particular Calvinistic viewpoint, but, Ephesians 4:11-15 makes it clear that we have yet to achieve such unity. Likewise, 1 Corinthians makes it clear that there were indeed people in their midst who were "carnal." The apostle didn't call these people "goats" as brother Washer does here, but the apostle counted them as brethren and amongst those who were "sanctified." Granted, Paul hangs the sentence of hell over their heads in 1 Corinthians 6, reminding them that people who practice immorality and such will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. But, such "carnal" individuals he did count as part of the church.

Outside of that middle part of his sermon, I found the message pretty solid and challenging, creating in me a deeper longing for God, and calling me to greater discipline than I have personally had in my own private life. I thought the sermon had several good quotes in it, and as a young man, found the admonition: "Don't attempt a reformation unless your knees are bleeding" quite good. How often I have attempted to bring about "reformation" with carnal youthful zeal instead of deep agonizing prayer! Also, I particularly liked his statement about how as preachers we are always Ezekiels standing before bones so very dry, and how we must rely upon the sufficiency of the gospel and the power of God alone to see those bones come to life.

I listened to the sermon and thought it was pretty good. But, it's no Ten Shekels and a Shirt. I'd probably give it 4 stars out of 5. Honestly though, it seemed like much of it was a combination of other sermons I've heard Washer preach before. There is some really good stuff in it.

That's funny, I was thinking that it could very well be the Ten Shekels of our era, time will tell I suppose. KJ, in all honest inquiry does it ever occur to you that there is a hint of pride in rating such things? I am thinking of books and other matters that have been put to this type of 'review', you are not secretly a movie critic are you? ;-)

Though, I must say I strongly disagree with statement 6 about how there is nothing but unity within the body of Christ, and other statements he makes about "carnal Christians." Granted, I understand he's making such statements from his particular Calvinistic viewpoint, but, Ephesians 4:11-15 makes it clear that we have yet to achieve such unity. Likewise, 1 Corinthians makes it clear that there were indeed people in their midst who were "carnal." The apostle didn't call these people "goats" as brother Washer does here, but the apostle counted them as brethren and amongst those who were "sanctified." Granted, Paul hangs the sentence of hell over their heads in 1 Corinthians 6, reminding them that people who practice immorality and such will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. But, such "carnal" individuals he did count as part of the church.

Are you sure that is what he was doing though? I found his ... how to put this ... disassoiating in a number of mentions by the use of "I don't want to get into all that" or words to that effect refreshing. Right from the get go there was that same sentiment that is often echoed here (and fortunately a keen eye noticed the transcriptions are also available);

[i]there is a great awakening going on in this country and not only in this country and Europe where I have been and in South America and many other places, I see young men going back to the rock from which we were cut. They are reading Spurgeon and Whitefield. They are still listening to Ravenhill and Martin Lloyd-Jones and Tozer and Wesley and it is a great, incredible movement. Just because popular media and Christianity today hasn’t discovered what is going on, I want you to know that I would have never dreamed 15 years ago that I would see the awakening I am seeing, not through my ministry, but as I go to different places and see what God is doing without any of our ministries.[/i]

[i]My dear friends, and I am going to say this bluntly, I know that there are Calvinists here
and I know that there are Arminians here and I know that there are all sorts of strange animals in between, but I want you to know this. Although I am leaning more toward—I guess I call myself a five point Spurgeonist—I want you to know this. Calvinism is not the issue. No, I am going to get in a lot of trouble when this goes on the internet. Calvinism is not the issue. I’ll tell you what the issue is. Regeneration. And that is why I can have fellowship with Wesley and Ravenhill and Tozer and all the rest because regardless of where they stood on the other issues they believed that salvation could not be manipulated by the preacher, that it was a magnificent work of the power of almighty God. And with them, therefore, I stand, that I was a work of God.[/i]

"a five point Spurgeonist"

I loved that. But that is often the same cry many have had here in this whole raging battle of the seemingly two divergent opinions. And maybe it was this that I found to be the real crying out in his intention;

[i]And because the pastor doesn’t want to lose the great number of people and because he has wrong ideas regarding evangelism and true conversion, he caters to the wicked in his church and his little group of true sheep that belong to Jesus Christ are sitting there in the midst of all the theater, in the midst of all the worldliness, in the midst of all the multimedia going, “We just want to worship Jesus and we just want someone to teach us the
Bible.”[/i]

[i]What you have got is a bunch of goats and tares among the sheep. And because very little
[u]biblical, compassionate[/u] Church discipline is practiced, they live among the sheep, they
feed on the sheep and they destroy the sheep and those of you who are leaders in the Church are going to pay a high penalty when you stand before the one who loves them because you did not have enough courage to stand up and confront the wicked.[/i]

[i]So we spend a fortune discipling goats, hoping they will become sheep. You can’t teach
a goat into a sheep. A goat becomes a sheep by the supernatural working of the Spirit of almighty God.[/i]

Maybe here it's a matter of word usage but there is a certain sense of indeed teaching a 'goat' into a sheep, that is that they can be challenged to [i]think[/i] ... "Is it I?" that great inward looking accusation to the heart. I certainly was a goat at one point, going along, doing the Sunday thing or as Katz used to put it [i]a mere succession of Sunday services[/i].

The apostle didn't call these people "goats" as brother Washer does here, but the apostle counted them as brethren and amongst those who were "sanctified."

That's curious and seems to be contradictory but maybe I am just missing your gist.

At any rate didn't wat to get bogged down here either rather wanted to confess my own recent foolishness and how this message (listened to it twice yesterday) and some other ... bothers of late have me feeling very humbled and contrite and apologetic.

Lack of prayer, it is always the spell of doom for me. Have been somewhat adrift, busy yes and maybe it is partially a change in physcial limitations that have come to my notice of late. It seems a need for more rest, more sleep is needed. For being so disciplined for so long to the 4 am hour, it seems to be slipping and I am quite unsure just where to ... allow this to be taken rightly. Curtailing one or the other has me betwixed, maybe just going to bed at 8:00 pm is the answer.

The carry overs between postings here has always fascinated me and why I find it hard to place everything into one basket. The posting on tithing, I am remiss and still feel the sting of hurting a brothers conscience due to this same lack of prayer, poor choice of words, confusing matters ... fatigue, speaking from the compulsion of the flesh. Then there is much of John Newton, a piece yet to be posted that just throttles me because of it's exactness to present lack of paying attention to the disposition, words, heart etc. It all amounts to just being humbled and hopefull contrite, more considerate, more careful. My behaviour has been poor, my heart somewhat disassoiciated or detached and yet the penchant is to go on shooting from the lip anyway. Before this turns into yet another aimless ramble I just wanted to appologize, ask for forgiveness and profess my thanks for this timely message from Paul Washer.

There is something I have often grasped and found hard to put to words but it goes past the message and reveals something of the heart of the one speaking, this certain something, an intangible, John Newton;

[i]By frequent prayer, and close acquaintance with the Scripture, and a habitual attention to the frame of our hearts, there is a certain delicacy of spiritual taste and discernment to be acquired, which renders a proper judgment concerning the nature and limits of questionable things. Love to Christ is the clearest and most persuasive factor; and when our love to Jesus is in lively exercise, and the rule of his Word is in our eye--we seldom make great mistakes![/i]

Will put this up in it's entirety later but there is also this from Paul Washer that I found very similar;

[i]Have you ever sat down on an airplane or maybe met someone in a marketplace you didn’t even know and you being maybe Baptist or Mennonite or this or that, but truly evangelical, truly Christian, you talk to him for no more than few minutes and you discover, “He is a believer. This is a live one.”

And at that moment you would give your life for him. You would give your life for him.[/i]

RobertW wrote:
I think it is clear that God is getting His church back on track in a way that is even more powerful and lasting than what we ever hoped for in a historical Revival. He is blessing what is [i]of[/i] Him and allowing what is not to dry up and die. Many of us have wearied ourselves trying to hold together a system that God cannot bless.

Perhaps we are worn out enough to realize and finally accept what God is doing and will allow him to have His way.

Greetings all. I have not posted on SI for some time.

I listened to Paul Washer's Ten Indictments message. It left me rejoicing... and sorrowing.

Rejoicing to hear this mighty call to repentance.

Sorrowing, because I am wondering if many hearts still feel there is hope for, and I quote Robert W's words above, "a system God cannot bless."

Many of us have felt we had to distance ourselves from that system because of the very things Paul Washer pointed God's finger at. It has meant a wilderness walk for us, and at times, heavy reproach. I take comfort in that reproach, however, knowing that God is not ashamed to be called my God, for He hath prepared for me a City. And that City, remember, is not just in Heaven: it comes down upon the earth.

What I am saying is... what does this great message create in the hearts of those who hear it? Is there a hope rekindled, that God will revive the old systems again, revive Baptist churches, and revive Pentecostal churches, and revive Reformed Churches... and so on?

Or, can we, will we, in Robert W's words once again, "Perhaps we are worn out enough to realize and finally accept what God is doing, and will allow Him to have His way"?

It is my own personal conviction that we are at the door of something far, far greater than revival. The old system cannot contain the glory that God has in mind to reveal, any more than a thimble can the ocean.

What than CAN contain it? God knows. And He is willing to reveal this to the hungry seeking heart. Can we be on our faces before Him, finally acknowledging Him as the LORD OF His Church, and let Him have His Way? Oh! "Eye hath not seen nor ear heard..."

AD

What I am saying is... what does this great message create in the hearts of those who hear it?

For me the message is a synthesis of things God has been trying to say to us for some time and He has brought us face to face with it again. God cannot bless a system of 'ministry' that refuses to operate within His prescribed order. I think Paul washer laid it out pretty well in the time he had.

What are the consequences of what has been going on so far? I think it is a carnal undertone and 'operation' guided by carnal people. Because we are some number of generations out since genuine salvation has been preached we have leaders that I am afraid have not truly been regenerated. I say this because the direction of things in many circles always tends to lead [u]away[/u] from God rather than [u]towards[/u] Him. A fresh first love relationship with God will lead a people or organization towards the heart of God.

When Jesus told Ephesus He would remove their candlestick if they did not repent, did He mean that any church that left it's first love was in jeopardy? I think it does. God sends people to warn about these things and they go largely ignored. Just like may happen with '10 Indictments'. We have to respond rightly to what God is saying to us. Either we believe God has spoken or we do not. If we do we are responsible to search out what we must do. We cannot afford to ignore another clarion call. We need to cease thinking that what we have tolerated is tolerable. There has to be an urgency to change while there is still hope.

If we neglect to hear, it will have far reaching consequences.

I' so very thankful for this message, firstly as it confirms so many things I have been taught and heard through the years; secondly, that at this point in time when things are so dire, there would be a clear message to the people who call themselves by Christ's name to view in the mirror what manner of people we are...

When Jesus told Ephesus He would remove their candlestick if they did not repent, did He mean that any church that left it's first love was in jeopardy? I think it does. God sends people to warn about these things and they go largely ignored. Just like may happen with '10 Indictments'. We have to respond rightly to what God is saying to us. Either we believe God has spoken or we do not. If we do we are responsible to search out what we must do. We cannot afford to ignore another clarion call. We need to cease thinking that what we have tolerated is tolerable. There has to be an urgency to change while there is still hope.

Yes, and amen! Not only in regards to change- but intrepidation that we may slink back into the lukewarm-ness which happens when the fire wanes and the zealousness to repent becomes a walk in rebuke and chastening; and we weary because our hopes and desires may not fully be in sync with what God hopes and desires...

I am very reminded about the verse from the great Hymn [i]Cleanse Me- Oh, Holy Ghost, revival comes from Thee; send a revival [u]start the work in me[/u], Thy Word declares, Thou wilt supply our need, for blessing now, O Lord, I humbly plead.[/i]

(The blessing of right spiritual mindedness... of knowing Him and His Christ rightly... of having living water flow out of my innermost being to those who are fainting and dying in this weary place with no water.)

Should we at all worry whether there would be struggle in the midst of a war? Of course there will be; but, when inside of our homes, our work, our fellowship, and so on and so on we humble ourselves under the Mighty hand of God and renew our hearts and minds to search out God's way, to DO things God's way, to [b]learn[/b] God's ways and be a living expression of God's wonderful, merciful, righeous ways ; He will take care of the rest!

Psalm 18

Does anyone have a take on my question other than the rubber stamp answer, "seek God".
What is this doing for the way you fellowship? I see in this thread an indication of "wilderness" experience. This indicates a lack of fellowship. Is this a desired result? If not, what do you do about it?
Thanks for any replies beyond, "seek God".

Help me reconcile this teaching with the need for fellowship.

Dear dd,
I think if you relisten to the message you will hear that ringing tone of serving a local fellowship.

I understand that it is difficult to find fellowship in certain areas as there are many churches which are more interested in having numbers than they are having the Lord. But, that does not in any way mean that there are not sincere Christians which you can have fellowship with, both inside of churches and in a smaller fellowship type of meeting.

I do not believe that this teaching was to have any one of us look around us and say everything was so messed up that we wanted nothing to do with any of it; rather it was directed to those who hold positions of leadership to say: take a look, this is what we need to change.

(And at the heart of any change in any setting is the change of heart of the individual Christian, checking our own motives and directions and makeing sure they line up with God's...)

"Seeking God" is not merely a rubber stamp, although I understand what you mean when you would like to have a more communicative answer than simply that.

I do not know where you live, if you attend a church at this time or if you know of any other Christians in your area that have a heart desirous of God's will; but there are many people sitting "in the wings", so to speak, that are hungry for God's will and His ways and would love to have fellowship and walk with others of like mind.

Finding them can sometimes be an issue, and for that, if you do not know of any, the best thing to do is, pray. Ask God to show you those you could have fellowship with, whether inside of a church or in a smaller setting; and be attentive to His moving.

Sure there are times when we are in "the wilderness", nothing wrong with that, usually it means that we have things we have to learn there, just as we have things we have to learn about when we are in close proximity to others.

Seeking God really is a viable answer; [i]but in everything with prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God[/i] Seeking Him for who He is and what He wants to do with you can open doors for fellowship that you would never have believed possible.

I have been in both situations, wonderful fellowship and times of great quietness, right now, I'm just seeking God. The more I learn of Him, the more I see that there is not one thing that happens to me in this life that does not have a distinct purpose.

I hope this helps you some...
Love in Christ,
Lori

What is this doing for the way you fellowship?

The trend seems to be that if no change takes place in certain circles then those that are like minded with consolidate into groups that have a passion for God and the work of the ministry. Can two walk together if they are not agreed? I think the modern day situation has tested this passage to it's absolute limit.

Many have tried to 'walk together' hoping there could be change. Some have ministered truths right along the lines of 10 indictments, but have been out lasted by those entrenched in decisionism and the environments it creates. Some have mistaken the notion that churches are designed to 'teach' people how to be Christian's after they make a 'decision'.

It becomes a situation where they view getting [i]saved[/i] the same as getting [i]married[/i]. The sinners prayer is nothing more than an attempted repeat after me 'type' wedding vow to Christ. But genuine regeneration is a radical change of the core nature of the person. it is a miracle as great as a resurrection from three days dead. Those that understand the nature of genuine regeneration will consolidate and begin to fellowship after a New Testament pattern.

The truth is, we can't begin a reformation of leadership until we resolve to get back to John 3:3 and refuse to settle for anything less. We simply cannot keep on trying to teach people to be Christian's that have not been Born Again. It is an impossible task that frustrates the whole of ministry and wears the Saints completely out.

I agree with both the answers of Robert and Lori, and it is by no means a trite thing to say, "seek God" or "pray about it".

God has His own way of shaping and moulding us in the wilderness and His way of leading us out in due time.

I was gratified not only by this wonderful message by Brother Paul (granted King Jimmy there were things that were repeated that he has said before, but then Jeremiah, Isaiah, and many other men of God repeated warnings because that was what God called them to do in their generation) and I was grateful to hear his response in the Q & A when the panel was asked whether or not they believed we were facing a time when the real Christians will have to become an underground church. He gave a must hear answer that I concur with with all my heart.

I highly recommend listening to his comments there along with the others. For those of us who have been the sheep in the midst of goats or have had the dubious task of being in a denomination where the sheep have been run off by the goats, both the message and the warning regarding what is ahead for the sheep that will be led like lambs to the slaughter, the message was not just indictment, but fulfilled the title very well indeed, a message of great hope. God is going to have Him a people, I just want to make sure that I stay one of them.

Clint

On another note;

[i]One time I was struggling and Leonard Ravenhill was talking to a dear friend of mine
who was saying, “Brother Leonard, a young man, brother Paul, he is really struggling.” And he sent a tract. I still got that tract. I will never, never part with that. It said, “Others can, you cannot.”[/i]

He was refering to the following;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=8295&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]OTHERS MAY, YOU CANNOT[/url] G.D. Watson

does anyone know if this is going to come on dvd anytime in the future, thank you. Oh and does anyone know where brother paul will be preaching next.

your such a blessing, thank you so much.

KJ, in all honest inquiry does it ever occur to you that there is a hint of pride in rating such things?

Well, being that we have a rating system here I don't think it is prideful to rate a sermon. It's a good sermon no doubt, but, I don't think it quite brings a "paradigm shift" like Ten Shekels and a shirt did. Ten Shekels and a Shirt is capable of starting a revolution (and indeed, I think it has), whereas this sermon, while once again an excellent message, doesn't quite leave the same crater like impact as Ten Shekels.

Also, the theology of Ten Shekels is much more universal in appeal, not to mention sound. I just speak this as somebody who holds to theology that is much more Pentecostal/Wesylean/Arminian than Calvinistic. While brother Washer has some outstanding points on some things, I think there is some faulty theology in this message. I know to say such may be upsetting to some of you, and some of you might get angry by me saying that, but I say such in utter humility. Let not my judging the finer points of the overall message become a stumbling block for you, or discouragement from others listening to the message. I still believe it to be a great sermon, and count brother Washer as a true father of the faith from whom I have much to glean.

Hello all,

I just finished listening to the sermon, I thought the Lord would have me there helping Greg with the conference, but it seems He had other plans and I was not able to go. I just had some time to listen to it and now it is 5 in the morning and I have not slept.

I wanted to say just one thing concerning the tone of the comments and the "buzz" that has surrounded this sermon, and I can sum all of my sentiments up in one sentence:

I cannot believe that so many can take such a message and entirely miss the point by making it a cerebral somersault of doctrinal frivolities.

I am an old fashioned holiness person,nourished up on the doctrines of the second blessing holiness movement, and a message like that transcends doctrine, creed, and every other filthy sectarian boundary that carnal men set up.

In critiquing this message like a secular pop culture tv show, we only begin to harden ourselves to what the Lord Himself spoke during that hour and 57 minutes. Let that message from God's heart drive you to weeping and prayer, not critiquing and pettiness.

The place where the Lord has saw fit to have me is exactly what our dear brother describes, and I am part of that little flock described as starving just wanting to hear the Bible taught and worship Christ - the rest of the little group is my wife. I have found myself somehow on the staff of this filthy place, and the only thing it has driven me to is the brink of hanging up my hat and saying forget it.

Sermons like this sometimes serve to twist the knife that is already deeply plunged into my heart. As our dear brother described the state of this false so called church I wept because I have witness it firsthand and have been used and taken advantage of by the goats that parade as church leadership.

This is not a pity party from a man seeking sympathy, but rather a statement to say that these things are true. They are true, and there is no hope except to be nourished up in the words of faith. The place where I work is threatening everything in my life, threatening to take away my home (which will soon happen), threatening to take away my wife via bitterness and anger, threatening to take my child, and threatening to take my soul, but God is faithful and He will gain the victory.

This is real, and this is urgent. This is not the time to bicker about theology and whether or not the sermon had more power the Reidhead, this is the time to fight.

If only we could see past our far too close horizon to what it is that God has just on the other side.

I say with our dear bother - just stop it.

- Evan

I have found myself somehow on the staff of this filthy place, and the only thing it has driven me to is the brink of hanging up my hat and saying forget it.

Sermons like this sometimes serve to twist the knife that is already deeply plunged into my heart.

It is a bitter, yet precious medicine indeed to hear such a sober affirmation of the truths some of us are tempted to squelch in our conscience in order to get along in some of the places we fellowship at.

May God increase my love for His heart, and for his Church.

MC