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The Grinch People Are Back Again

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sermonindex

Here's another great article by Charlie Daniels that really gets to the heart of the issue.

Enjoy...

Krispy

[b]The Grinch People Are Back Again[/b]
by Charlie Daniels
Mnt. Juliet, TN

[i]We are soon celebrating a holy holiday called Christmas. That's spelled C-h-r-i-s-t mas and the first six letters in the name of the holiday should tip off any person with enough gray matter to tie their shoes that the day is about somebody or something called Christ.

Just as Thanksgiving is set aside to give thanks and Labor Day is set aside to pay tribute to working people, Christmas is set aside to celebrate the birthday of Christ Jesus and why that bothers some people so much is beyond my comprehension.

While they have no trouble with Santa Claus and the superficial paraphernalia surrounding the holiday, they scream, holler and almost become apoplectic when someone has the audacity to display a true symbol of Christmas in a public place.

The ACLU has expended thousands of man-hours for no other reason than to keep the symbols of this holiday out of public places, atheists have virtually bent over backwards to show their public disrespect for the day, and companies have forbidden their employees to say Merry Christmas to their customers for fear of offending the politically correct.

Now why is it that these people fight so hard against having this one season celebrated for its true meaning? What so offends them about the name of Christ?

May I state my humble opinion?

Jesus Christ, said, "I am the way, the truth and the life." Let's look at that statement.

He said "I am the way", and goes on to say that He is the only way, that there is no way for mankind to reach God except to go through Jesus.

Well in this day of multi-culturalism and political correctness, when New Age followers think themselves to be gods and goddesses and quaint eastern religions are considered to be chic and hip, if it feels good do it because all roads lead to the mountain top.

Anyway, it just doesn't sit well with these people for someone to declare the path to be so narrow that it has to come by way of the blood He shed and nothing else.

He said that He is the truth. Today truth has become subjective, graded on a curve and tailored to fit the situation at hand.

In this day of lying politicians, revisionist history and a media which slants the news in keeping with their political agenda, the truth can be hard to decipher, and for some harder to accept.

It's like Jack Nicholson said in the movie A Few Good Men, "You can't handle the truth!" and so it is with these people who are so terrified of a simple nativity scene. It represents the truth, and the truth would totally destroy the house of straw they're living in.

Jesus said, "I am the life." Jesus lived a life of service and sacrifice and in the end died the most horrible death any man has ever suffered.

His was a life of selfless love and He told us to take up our cross and follow Him. Evidently this doesn't suit the goals of the ACLU.

The Bible also says that Jesus is the light and brought light in the world but that man didn't want the light because it exposed their sin.

So why don't these people want these symbols of the birth of Christ in their sight? In my humble opinion, they don't want to be exposed to the light of truth and don't want anybody else to be exposed to it.

I suppose they think there's safety in numbers.

Actually these people are to be pitied and prayed for. They have been deceived by the father of all deceivers, and in this season of love and forgiveness it would be a righteous thing for all believers to pray that these people will be enlightened.

I write this acknowledging that I am a sinner and the only hope I have is in the one whose birth we honor during this season, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

And my friends you will believe it too someday for every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

From all the ranch hands at Twin Pines Ranch, the office and management staff, the fan club folks, the pickers, roadies and drivers in the CDB organization I wish each and every one of you, not "Happy Holidays," not "Season's Greetings," not "Happy Kwanza" or a "Peaceful Solstice" but a very blessed and Merry Christmas, spelled C-h-r-i-s-t mas.

What do you think?

Pray for our troops

God Bless America

Charlie Daniels

December 12, 2008[/i]

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savannah

Charlie says, "We are soon celebrating a holy holiday called Christmas. That's spelled C-h-r-i-s-t mas..."

"The word Christmas comes from "Cristes Maesse", an early English phrase that means "Mass of Christ."" (World Book Encyclopedia). Many others have gone in-depth as to the origins of this so it is unnecessary that I do so.

Charlie says, "Today truth has become subjective, graded on a curve and tailored to fit the situation at hand." (see above) He is correct.

Charlie again says, "in this day of multi-culturalism and political correctness". He fits the mold of his own making and is self-condemned in his own words. He is guilty of that which he claims others are guilty of as he calls such people, "Grinch People". Charlie himself is the one who is deceived.

Charlie says, "In this day of lying politicians, revisionist history...", and I'd ask, who is the revisionist historian here!

One man has stated, "We regretfully admit that many Christians, whose salvation we could not doubt, are too badly misled by men's traditions and too blind to the importance of taking guidance solely from God's Word, to take any godly stand against this Xmas monstrosity, But all who acknowledge the supreme authority of the Holy Scriptures to direct in such matters, will most certainly have no more to do with this unholy holiday after their attention has been called to it...If they would not link the name of our blessed Lord with their heathen ceremonies, then we would hold our peace. If it were like the 4th of July celebration we would have nothing to say."

REVIVAL & SYNCRETISM

Many fail to see the connection between these two words. Or, rather the disconnection!

Many may be familiar with what revival is and means,yet many may be ignorant of how syncretism prevents such.

It may be helpful to borrow from some others to get some insight into this word syncretism and how it is relative to this thread,this post and this forum.

Syncretism is the process by which elements of one religion are assimilated into another religion resulting in a change in the fundamental tenets or nature of those religions. It is the union of two or more opposite beliefs, so that the synthesized form is a new thing. It is not always a total fusion, but may be a combination of separate segments that remain identifiable compartments. Originally a political term, "syncretism" was used to describe the joining together of rival Greek forces on the Isle of Crete in opposition to a common enemy.

The Bible reveals syncretism as a long - standing tool of Satan to separate God from his people. It strikes at the heart of the first commandment. Beyerhaus notes a threefold answer in the OT to the challenge of external syncretism: segregation, eradication, and adaptation.

The NT was born in a melee as rulers sought to blend cultures through syncretistic monotheism, all forms of the same God. All the gods of Egypt, Persia, and Babylon became Greek. Rome harbored all cults and mystery religions. Antioch, Ephesus, and Corinth each boasted syncretistic gods seeking to absorb the church.

NT confrontations include Simon Magus, the Jerusalem Council, the Epistle to the Colossians, combating Jewish thought mixed with early Gnosticism, and the rebuke of the church at Pergamum. Against these forces the church developed its creeds, canon, and celebrations.

The Christmas celebration date was set over against the festival of the birth of the sun god, Sol Invictus, in protest against a major attempt to create a syncretistic imperial religion.

Church history is filled with the struggle against syncretism from political, social, religious, and economic sources. Syncretistic pressure can be seen today. In our global - village context secular humanism seems to be the common ground for solving shared problems. The values of this world view strive for a place in the church's response to both the demands for conformity and the cries for liberation confronting it.

In the history of theology the term "syncretism" is used specifically to define two movements aimed at unification.

The supracultural teachings of Scripture must be judge of both culture and meaning as God works through men using various forms to bring all creation under his lordship.

SCRIPTURE, NOT CULTURE,CUSTOM,OR TRADITION OUGHT TO FORM THE CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW.

Worldviews are learned as people grow up and absorb the culture around them. We call this process enculturation, or "the process by which children become functioning members of their own society." Each person is born into a culture and molded and shaped by it.

Over a period of time a worldview is formed in the mind of the child. This worldview is a distinctive way in which a people define reality which shapes their cultural allegiances and provides interpretations of the world. This worldview forms basic assumptions about reality which form cultural beliefs and behavior.

To refer, therefore to the birth of Christ as THE FIRST CHRISTMAS is wrong, and although it may appeal to people who place more value on sentiment than on fact, it is misleading.

Equally so is it false to assert that THE CHRIST WHO CAME AT CHRISTMAS WILL COME AGAIN, because the evidence is that He did not come at Christmas. Why not tell the truth? The Gospels give account of His birth, but after that there is no account of celebrating the birth of the Saviour. Christmas was started in the early 4th century by the Church of Rome. It is easy to understand that Roman Catholics would wish to observe Christmas - the name of their sacrament is in it, and they do not look for a Biblical warrant for their religion. However, it is extremely difficult to understand why Protestants, whose religion is based on 'Scripture only' - Sola Scriptura - should follow the Roman Catholic Church into Christmas. ARE PROTESTANTS LOSING THEIR PROTEST?

What happens within a Christian community which allows syncretism to develop and continue? What are some scriptural examples of it?

Syncretism is the reshaping of Christian beliefs and practices through cultural accommodation so that they consciously or unconsciously blend with those of the dominant culture. It is the blending of Christian beliefs and practices with those of the dominant culture so that Christianity looses it distinctive nature and speaks with a voice reflective of its culture.

Syncretism develops because the Christian community attempts to make its message and life attractive, alluring, and appealing to those outside the fellowship. Over a period of years the accommodations become routinized, integrated into the narrative story of the Christian community and inseparable from its life.

Syncretism thus occurs when Christianity opts into the major cultural assumptions of its society.

The first three commandments charge the Israelites to follow Yahweh exclusively--to distinctively stand before God without reliance on any other gods (Exod. 20:1-7). The oft-quoted and memorized Shema likewise exhorts Israel to hear that Yahweh is one and to love Him with all her heart, soul, and strength (Deut. 6:4-5). Moses exhorted the Israelites not to listen to the animistic practitioners prevalent in the land of Canaan but to listen to the prophet like Moses, whom God would raise up (Deut. 18:9-15). In other words, Israel was to live distinctively, not fusing the way of God with that of surrounding nations.

God's chosen people incessantly accommodated to the dominant cultures around her and blended their beliefs with hers. For example Jereboam, the first king of North Israel, built two golden calves because he feared that his followers might go to the Southern Kingdom and worship Yahweh in the temple. Ahab and Jezebel introduced the Phoenician cult of Baalism into Israel. Manasseh of Judah rebuilt the high places torn down by his father Hezekiah, erected altars of Baal, practiced astrology, and burned his son in the fire as a sacrifice to Molech. Because of this idolatrous syncretism, North Israel was banished into Assyrian captivity (2 Kings 17:16-18) and Judah was exiled for 70 years to Babylon (Jer. 11:9-13).

Certain classic statements in the Old Testament describe the nature of syncretism. The Samaritans were a mixed-breed people who also blended their allegiance: "They worshiped the Lord, but they also served their own gods in accordance with the customs of the nations from which they had been brought" (2 Kings 17:33). The pre-exilic Jews partially followed Yahweh but also created for themselves idols out of wood and stone. God, through the prophet Jeremiah said, "They have turned their backs to me but not their faces, yet when they are in trouble, they say, 'Come and save us!'" (Jer. 2:27). Zephaniah spoke of the dual allegiance of the people of Judah, who "bow down and swear by the Lord and who also swear by Molech" (Zeph. 1:5).

Syncretism frequently occurs when forms of Christianity are accepted but are given traditional meanings and when the assumptions of traditional culture are not adequately critiqued based upon biblical theology.

As another poster on SI forum has rightly observed and stated, "Christmas is the greatest ecumenical tool ever invented, and the more ecumenically minded one is, the more likely they are to participate in Christmas and its trappings. Partake in Christmas if you must and your conscience allows, but please don't refer to it as a Christian Holyday."

Whether christmas, the sucular humanism of public education, feminism, modern dating, many forms of entertainment, etc.,etc., all are schemes of satan to mix and mingle Christ and His Word, and those born of Him, with the philosophies and damning effects of the philosophies of this world.

What is it to "the elect according to the foreknowledge of God" what "Jack Nicholson said..." or what any God-hater for that matter has said in regard to anything, as they live in and love darkness.

What kind of revival can be expected if the hearts,minds,and practices of the professing people of God are tied to God-hating abominable cultural values and self-esteem.

"That which is highly esteemed among men is an abomination to God" (Luke 16:15). Shouldn't this settle the matter forever? Let us not dishonor our Lord any longer by making Him a part of this idolatrous celebration. May we cry to Him for deliverance. Let the world say what it pleases and think what it pleases and let this be our motto, "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord" (Joshua 24:15).

The voice of the false prophet is a voice of mixture.

"Real christian charity is swallowed up in the will of God, nor is it in its nature to extend itself one step beyond, nor desire one thing contrary to the glory of Jehovah. All the charity that we possess beyond this may be properly called fleshly charity." (William Gadsby)

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sermonindex

Uhhh... yea, ok. Whatever.

Anyway, I thought Charlie nailed it on the head.

Krispy

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FireinmyBones1

"Uhhh... yea, ok. Whatever.
Anyway, I thought Charlie nailed it on the head.
- Krispy"

Agreed Krispy...agreed! :)

-Jeff

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MrBillPro

Well, I Love Christ and the Christmas time of the year, but hey that's just me, I have that right, but we do need to pray for Anhedonic folks. :-)

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White_Stone

Dear Brother's,

Perhaps you were put off by the length of savannah's post. Let me condense it a bit;

Charlie says, "in this day of multi-culturalism and political correctness". He fits the mold of his own making and is self-condemned in his own words. He is guilty of that which he claims others are guilty of as he calls such people, "Grinch People". Charlie himself is the one who is deceived.

One man has stated, "We regretfully admit that many Christians, whose salvation we could not doubt, are too [b]badly misled by men's traditions and too blind to the importance of taking guidance solely from God's Word[/b], to take any godly stand against this Xmas monstrosity, But all who acknowledge the supreme authority of the Holy Scriptures to direct in such matters, will most certainly have no more to do with this unholy holiday after their attention has been called to it...If they would not link the name of our blessed Lord with their heathen ceremonies, then we would hold our peace. If it were like the 4th of July celebration we would have nothing to say."

SCRIPTURE, NOT CULTURE, CUSTOM, OR TRADITION OUGHT TO FORM THE CHRISTIAN WORLDVIEW.

Worldviews are learned as people grow up and absorb the culture around them. . . .

To refer, therefore to the birth of Christ as THE FIRST CHRISTMAS is wrong, and although it may appeal to people who place more value on sentiment than on fact, it is misleading.

Equally, so. is it false to assert that THE CHRIST WHO CAME AT CHRISTMAS WILL COME AGAIN, because the evidence is that He did not come at Christmas. Why not tell the truth? The Gospels give account of His birth, but after that there is no account of celebrating the birth of the Saviour. Christmas was started in the early 4th century by the Church of Rome. It is easy to understand that Roman Catholics would wish to observe Christmas - the name of their sacrament is in it, and they do not look for a Biblical warrant for their religion. However, [b]it is extremely difficult to understand why Protestants, whose religion is based on 'Scripture only' - Sola Scriptura - should follow the Roman Catholic Church into Christmas. ARE PROTESTANTS LOSING THEIR PROTEST?[/b]

Brothers and Sisters, this is not something to be brushed aside with a [i]"Uhhh... yea, ok. Whatever.[/i] Savannah took time and effort to put forth the argument and facts. It seems rude to reply in such a flippant fashion to a matter of such importance.

God blessed me when he made my husband and myself homeless for so many years. We were able to see society and the modern church for what it truly has become. I am ringing the bell in the watchtower, shouting warning, danger and sadly no one listens. Please, please at least read it all & pray over it before you blindly reject God's authority.

Charlie Daniel's piece is an excellent 'feel good' writing but it only relates to your 'worldview' as you have been led to believe - it is not reality.

Savannah's post prepares us for judgment and it is coming very soon.

This Country and the whole world are on the verge of economic disaster the likes of which none of us living have ever experienced. Lord willing after enough of your worldly life view is stripped away, if you live through it, you will see what savannah, myself and others have been trying to warn you about.

God have mercy on us all,
white stone

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MaryJane

Greetings

White stone and Savannah what you have shared here has given me much to think about and pray about. I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Not sure what Father has for me in this but I want to know His heart on the matter.

God Bless
MJ

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MrBillPro


MaryJane wrote:
Greetings

White stone and Savannah what you have shared here has given me much to think about and pray about. I wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share this with us. Not sure what Father has for me in this but I want to know His heart on the matter.

God Bless
MJ


Excellent Post Thanks!

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sermonindex

Whitestone & Savannah... in their zeal to make their angst against Christmas known, have miserably failed to grasp the heart of what this article is saying. Not even close.

But that's typical when you are so zealous for something without opening your eyes.

And for the record, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with either of them. Just that what they are ranting about has very little to do with the article I posted. Therefore it gets lost on me because it comes across as another Christmas tirade.

Krispy

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MrBillPro

The thing I have learned is Religion is not the issue here as that is man created and therefore provides a jaded view of Christ or Christmas. To understand look to God for your answers not man, for man will fall short. GOD is in your heart and given the opening will manifest himself to you; man/religion is in your head and will confuse you because religion is for man not GOD.
Merry Christmas
Mr. Bill

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White_Stone

Dear Krispy,

From C. Daniels piece;
"The ACLU has expended thousands of man-hours for no other reason than to keep the symbols of this holiday out of public places, atheists have virtually bent over backwards to show their public disrespect for the day, and companies have forbidden their employees to say Merry Christmas to their customers for fear of offending the politically correct.

Now why is it that these people fight so hard against having this one season celebrated for its true meaning? What so offends them about the name of Christ?"

Please do not lump me in with these heathens. It is not the celebration of God's marvelous gift to us of salvation (through His Son Jesus' perfect life, death and resurrection) which I am protesting, it is the Sentimentalism that is attached to His birth. The Charlie Daniels piece seems so like all the 'feel good' emails sent saying 'forward this to 11 friends in 10 minutes for a blessing.' My faith is not based on 'feel good' sayings or on decorated trees and manger scenes, it is based on my knowledge of my failings, miserable as they are and of the mercy provided by the Perfect Sacrifice of God's own Son to blot out those sins of mine. There is nothing warm and fuzzy there. There is a depth of gratitude that knows no bounds. I want to share this wonderful gift with all I meet, not just in a certain month, by tradition of man, surrounded by snow and yule logs and gay packages. Every day of the year with sincerity of spirit. Not on some Man Made day.

Sincerely,
white stone

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MrBillPro


White_Stone wrote:
seems so like all the 'feel good' emails sent saying 'forward this to 11 friends in 10 minutes for a blessing.
Sincerely,
white stone

I agree with you on this! and most of the folks that I get them from are supposed to be Christians. I personally delete these right away,
I would really like to respond back with an argument of my own against them, but sometimes just not replying back at all might do more good, and might just be a better kinder, gentler and more Godly message to the person.

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sermonindex

Whitestone... I dont disagree with your point, but the point you're trying to make has absolutely nothing to do with what the article was about. I wonder if you even read it... and if you did, I question your reading comprehension.

Yet, you go on and on... much like a blaring trumpet during a soft symphony. Loud and out of place.

If you would read the article again (slower this time) and catch exactly what it is that Charlie is talking about, perhaps you will see the point of the article.

What you have to say has it's place, and in the proper context it would make sense, and I would probably agree with you for the most part.

But on this particular thread, about this particular article... your comments are about out of place as a black bear in a Holiday Inn swimming pool.

Here's a hint about the article... Charlie is articulating why it is that the heathen [b]hate[/b] the name of Christ. And he is suggesting that our response to them be one of sympathy and prayer for their salvation.

How you've blown it into what you have is waaaay beyond my understanding.

By the way, I dont know if you are always expecting to get into an argument with me or something... but it's beginning to feel like you're ready to pounce on me whenever I write something. Whats up with that, bro?

Krispy

PS... we all get it. "December 25th" has pagan origins. Point taken. Do you also refrain from naming the days of the week too? To be consistant you need to because they also have pagan origins. So do many of the things in your church... like candles on the communion table.

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MrBillPro


KrispyKrittr wrote:
By the way, I dont know if you are always expecting to get into an argument with me or something... but it's beginning to feel like you're ready to pounce on me whenever I write something. Whats up with that, bro?

Krispy

And just when I thought I had the patent on that, I find out Krispy get a piece of the pie, I am very sad. :-o

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sermonindex

Bill... when was the last time I pounced on you? Everytime I try you scream like a little girl!

:-P

Krispy

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MrBillPro


KrispyKrittr wrote:
Bill... when was the last time I pounced on you? Everytime I try you scream like a little girl!

:-P

Krispy


I was talking about Whitestone, she jumped on me in a PM one time about a post I made in a thread that made me stay on my knees for a week in Prayer, then God said I did nothing wrong what am I doing. :-)

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sermonindex

Ahh... didn't pick up on the fact that Whitestone is a woman.

Sorry Janice! lol... dont know how I missed that.

Krispy

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White_Stone

Dear Krispy,

The reason I pounced was the big RED FLAG that was waved at me in the first sentence of the article,
[i]"[b]We are soon celebrating a holy holiday called Christmas.[/b] That's spelled C-h-r-i-s-t mas and the first six letters in the name of the holiday should tip off any person with enough gray matter to tie their shoes that the day is about somebody or something called Christ."[/i]

If C. Daniels (I can not get it in my head that this is not the Charlie Daniels of musical fame, by the way, who did 'The Devil Went Down to Georgia,' forgive me for digressing) anyway, if he had simply mentioned the fact that [b]some[/b] Christians care to associate the holiday with Jesus, that would not have produced my urge to come back strongly. He pushed that as the main premise of the article. AND your choice of title also was provocative.

I am not a miserable person who sits in her home and feels glum. I have every reason to be full of joy for the marvelous FREE gift of salvation God provided for me through His own Son. I enjoy humor and my husband has taught me how to play. I was rather uptight when he met me but am better now. :-)

I did read the Daniels article and he does ring the right bells in the right places but by pushing the Christmas business I feel it probably misleads some into staying asleep in the worship of that day. If you could show me, in Scripture, the worship of Christ's birth - by the church, not by the angels or shepherds or the wise men, I might relent on my stance.

In no way do I wish to be antagonistic towards either of you.

Brother Bill, what I wrote you in a PM was between you and me. Do you wish to open the discussion to the forum?

Regards,
white stone (janice)

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sermonindex

Whitestone... we all get that you do not celebrate Christmas. I dont think there is anyone here that doesnt get that, you've made it quite clear.

Ya know what? You've connected all the dots, and this is the conclusion you've come up with and it works for you. I would never attempt to tell you to do anything different if it would cause you to sin against your conscience, which obviously it would.

It's kinda like me with the KJV... I was saved in the early 90's and was a NIV guy all the way. A few years later I was confronted with the KJV issue, and at first I ignored it. Then I spent 2 years basically studying nothing but this issue... and now I promote only the KJV. And not everyone agrees with me, obviously.

So I understand where you're coming from. But one thing that is important to know... you can not let this type of stuff come between you and your brothers and sisters. And by constantly harping on it... that is what you're doing.

I think many will attest here that when it comes to Bible versions I can get involved in some pretty heated debates. But I have [b]never[/b] done so to the detriment of the brethren. I dont seperate myself from anyone over it.

I dont think you're trying to seperate yourselve from anyone, but perhaps the constant "anti-Christmas" drum beating is causing a seperation to happen. Some of us would like to wish others Merry Christmas without the annoyance of constant "do you know Christmas is pagan?!?" rhetoric.

By the way... that article was in fact written by [b]the[/b] Charlie Daniels. The writer of "The Devil Went Down To Georgia". Please tell me you're not going to judge his salvation based on a song he wrote over 30 years ago when he wasn't a born again Christian, are you? (a song that I think is rather benign anyway...)

Krispy

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White_Stone

Dear Krispy,

Glad to see we do agree on something. KJV, although I do have several Amplified Bibles (reading one once gave me great comfort, but that was probably due more to the Source than the printed word).

Actually, I am [b]very glad to learn it is the Charlie Daniels we used to listen to in our youth. How wonderful he is saved[/b]! Praise the Lord, His ways are beyond wonderful.

You said about me, "And by constantly harping on it... that is what you're doing." Have you failed to take notice of what I said in my last reply? You started this thread with a title loaded for bear and now you are criticizing me for being the bear? I did not start a critical thread about the popular holiday. If an opening presents itself I will consider stepping into a thread, it is an open forum in that regard, is it not? This is not the only subject I have posted on, either.

If we were able to speak one-on-one it would be much easier to resolve differences. I would have none between us if it were possible. But when something as pressing as the man made holiday comes up, if I could not speak out I pray God would send others to do so.

I call the months and days of the week by their common names BUT they are not promoted by me to be Holy names, as is Christmas - that man made holiday we have been discussing.

I have come to realize that sentiment and attachments are simply worldly emotions that should not take preeminence over my attention to and worship of God through His Son & my Saviour Jesus. I learned that from one of the Puritan writers who wrote about God's Providence, not certain which one. They said for instance, if I had an unnatural attachment to a pet or husband, God in his Providence could take that pet or husband away to prune me and make me grow towards Him. Maybe God in his marvelous Providence took away the marvel and magic of that holiday from me to enable me to grow closer to Him. I thank Him for His Wisdom.

Kind regards,
white stone

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sermonindex

You said about me, "And by constantly harping on it... that is what you're doing." Have you failed to take notice of what I said in my last reply? You started this thread with a title loaded for bear and now you are criticizing me for being the bear? I did not start a critical thread about the popular holiday. If an opening presents itself I will consider stepping into a thread, it is an open forum in that regard, is it not? This is not the only subject I have posted on, either.

The title of the thread was not made up by me... it is the title of Charlie's article. Your beef about the title should be addressed to him, not me.

Secondly, it wasnt calling someone like yourself (a person with convictions about the holiday) a Grinch... it was aimed at liberal politicians, the ACLU and other "politically correct" people. Surely you know that I was not lumping people like you in with those folks.

If we were able to speak one-on-one it would be much easier to resolve differences. I would have none between us if it were possible. But when something as pressing as the man made holiday comes up, if I could not speak out I pray God would send others to do so.

Considering all that is going on in the world today I hardly consider Christmas to be a "pressing" matter.

I do agree we probably would have a much different perspective of each other if we were to meet in person. In fact, I bet you would like me. I'm a teddy bear. :-)

I call the months and days of the week by their common names BUT they are not promoted by me to be Holy names, as is Christmas - that man made holiday we have been discussing.

Again, I'm convinced you totally missed the point of the article. He wasnt saying that Christmas is a "holy" name... he was saying that [b]Christ[/b] is a holy name, and it is that name [b]Christ[/b] that people find so offensive. And he is right. And scripture says the same thing.

I have come to realize that sentiment and attachments are simply worldly emotions that should not take preeminence over my attention to and worship of God through His Son & my Saviour Jesus. I learned that from one of the Puritan writers who wrote about God's Providence, not certain which one. They said for instance, if I had an unnatural attachment to a pet or husband, God in his Providence could take that pet or husband away to prune me and make me grow towards Him. Maybe God in his marvelous Providence took away the marvel and magic of that holiday from me to enable me to grow closer to Him. I thank Him for His Wisdom.

And in your case that is perhaps what happened. If so... praise God! In my case I find the holiday to be one where I draw close to Him. I take a few days off and spend at least one of them in my prayer closet... seeking His face. Rejoicing in so great a salvation. Seeking guidance for the coming year. It's revival time for me. I look forward to it.

I also enjoy the music of the season, my family and friends around me... we give gifts because of the common love we share.

God is honored in both our situations. Sometimes Christians find it hard to believe that God deals with different people differently. But He does. We think that because God has led us to do or not do something that that means this must be the way it is for everyone... but God deals with each of us individually.

For me... I eat meat offered to idols with complete freedom. For you, you do not because your conscience will not let you. And you know what scripture says? We're both right!

Krispy

I
ifmypeople

Mr. Krispy didn't you write earlier that you were going to stay away from the annual christmas debate on this forum? Please consider dissussing this lively topic further privately, by email or phone. Now go deck your halls and not your brothers...fal la la la la ....
Your brother in Jesus, Rob in New York

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sermonindex

Welcome to SI, ifmypeople.

No, this is a public forum and so far this is has been a relatively friendly discussion. Therefore there is no need to go private. This is a [b]public[/b] forum.

Secondly, yes I did intend to stay out of the debate. So far I have done just that. I'm not debating the merits of celebrating or not celebrating... which is a debate I am refraining from. What I [b]am[/b] debating is the fact that there is grace and freedom for BOTH sides of the coin. I'm arguing that the brethren may not all celebrate, but we [b]can[/b] all agree that we see things differently at times, and that on benign issues such as this we should not sit in judgement of one another.

Thats the debate I'm involved in... not Christmas. My points can be applied to any number of issues.

Krispy

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MrBillPro


KrispyKrittr wrote:
What I [b]am[/b] debating is the fact that there is grace and freedom for BOTH sides of the coin. I'm arguing that the brethren may not all celebrate, but we [b]can[/b] all agree that we see things differently at times, and that on benign issues such as this we should not sit in judgment of one another.
Krispy

Amen Brother! I totally agree, I guess I should never post the kind of Truck I drive, someone will sure come here and tell me their many reasons I should not drive the type vehicle. I feel "some" not all Christians are way to Judgmental and at times should really just keep quite if for nothing else to keep the strife level down, regardless of how bad they want to interject their personal opinion. This is one of the reasons that I sincerely believe some the lost sheep stay lost, I have been personally told this by many unbelievers about how judgmental Christians are and I bet some of you have been told the same at some point, how sad.

C
Compton

I guess I should never post the kind of Truck I drive, someone will sure come here and tell me their many reasons I should not drive the type vehicle

Most of us come to our convictions through real enough experiences, but in these profound and personally meaningful experiences we can often lose the ability to tell the difference between those and scripture.

We shift from expositing the written word to extrapolating it. And eventually we become so full of our own revelation that we become untouchable and drift off into doctrinal idiosyncratic confusion.

This is one reason I've learned to count spirit-led bible exposition as the only truly warranted prophetic utterance and everything else as the well-meaning opinions of sincere men and women. It is difficult enough to agree on what is written, but when we add the x-value of extra-biblical personal opinion into the equation, you can forget ever coming to terms with one another.

On the other hand, recognizing this scriptural scope creeping tendency in myself also, is one reason why I try to maintain a policy of understanding and grace towards men and women of deep and sincere convictions different then mine in the church. (edit: within vital requirements for orthodoxy) I respect strong convictions that are different then mine because I value their purity of heart towards the Lord. I am loathe to oppose any spiritual fire in this lukewarm age.

MC

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sermonindex

Well put, Comp. Amen!

Krispy

M
MrBillPro


Compton wrote:
This is one reason I've learned to count spirit-led bible exposition as the only truly warranted prophetic utterance and everything else as the well-meaning opinions of sincere men and women. It is difficult enough to agree on what is written, but when we add the x-value of extra-biblical personal opinion into the equation, you can forget ever coming to terms with one another.
MC

I agree! well said.
Mr. Bill

I
ifmypeople

Brother Kritter, Thank you for the welcome to SI forum. The SI website has been my homepage for many years and will be for many years to come. One story comes to mind in regards to the different ways christians celebrate the holidays. Brother Zac Poonen from India who has hundreds sermons on SI one said that he and the elder that has worked with him from the beginning, are one in every thing doctrinal and have never once in decades of ministry been at odds for one day. They have always been one. When it comes to christmas celebration Zac does not celebrate it as it is pagan based which he has written about in one of his books. Zac's partner in ministy puts up the xmas tree and celebrates to his hearts content. Is this a problem? No. love and grace cover these issues. so may we learn the same here on this public forum for the glory of God and for the edification of the saints. Who knows Krisp you may look back a couple of years from now and be on the other side of the christmas celebration issue. Kind of like the NIV to the KJV........your brother in Jesus, Rob

P
PaulWest

Most of us come to our convictions through real enough experiences, but in these profound and personally meaningful experiences we can often lose the ability to tell the difference those and scripture.
We shift from expositing the written word to extrapolating it. And eventually we become so full of our own revelation that we become untouchable and drift off into doctrinal idiosyncratic confusion.
This is one reason I've learned to count spirit-led bible exposition as the only truly warranted prophetic utterance and everything else as the well-meaning opinions of sincere men and women. It is difficult enough to agree on what is written, but when we add the x-value of extra-biblical personal opinion into the equation, you can forget ever coming to terms with one another.
On the other hand, recognizing this scriptural scope creeping tendency in myself also, is one reason why I try to maintain a policy of understanding and grace towards men and women of deep and sincere convictions different then mine in the church. (edit: within vital requirements for orthodoxy) I respect strong convictions that are different then mine because I value their purity of heart towards the Lord. I am loathe to oppose any spiritual fire in this lukewarm age.

What a well-written and profound post. Thank you for this, brother. I couldn't have expressed it in any better way.

Brother Paul

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sermonindex

Who knows Krisp you may look back a couple of years from now and be on the other side of the christmas celebration issue. Kind of like the NIV to the KJV........

One thing I've learned during my walk with the Lord... never say never! lol

Krispy

C
crsschk

If you could show me, in Scripture, the worship of Christ's birth - by the church, not by the angels or shepherds or the wise men, I might relent on my stance.

Luk 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Luk 2:8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

Luk 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

Luk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Luk 2:12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

Luk 2:13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,

Luk 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Luk 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

You seem to be greatly contradicting yourself sister. Take out the scriptures that you would otherwise appeal to?

I wonder sometimes if, a very big if at that but suppose there was no Roman arrangement as it were. That for the sake of argument the Protestants took it upon themselves to set one day of the year to magnify this monumental moment and perhaps they might have called it Christday, would it then be appropriate?

The trouble I have with so many of these things is the superstructure that has to be held together with things that many would do away with as a matter of course.

The times that were, [i]the Church came this way[/i], through history as it happened, there is nothing that we can do this side of it short of bellyaching over the matter. They did what they did to setup something in opposition and perhaps even appease the masses (no pun intended), what of it?

The trouble is in merging the arguments - Is it truly a 'pagan' argument or is it due to being "unscriputral" and if it is truly the later, then we have more problems than we know. Christian websites are not in the scripture either.

Have yet to hear a good argument about what to do with "Monday" "Tuesday" or what we are going to protest about the myriad of 'pagan' activities that we all partake in daily as a matter of course, which are also unscriptural, being that they have no mention either.

It is a rather strange brew that what little is left of Christ Jesus in the public arena is also being wished done away with by those who bear His Name. I do believe that is the heart of what Charlie Daniels is after.

Some exaggeration surely, I realize that you would not be purposefully forwarding this, but others that have this so nailed down to being distinctly ... evil, decidedly 'pagan' would have to recognize that even the inception of the idea of Christmas is far from it's origins over the course of history - And yes, in some ways far worse in extravagance and materialism - Even the meaning and reason itself is completely lost on the masses. So in that effect those opposing should be winners, you have attained your goal - Proved out that the thing should not be celebrated - Who is left but those that find some joy and warmth, family - Love - That even some of the worst of people find themselves affected by this magical season, I said it! It is a very strange and wondrous thing ... for some of us. Why is it? A mere illusion, sheer sentimentality? The devil playing the weirdest of tricks on us ... compassion and breaking down the defenses of our hearts for just a few weeks ... ?

Their is such a vast and different response to this thing we call Christmas that it makes it impossible to put into such a narrow straight jacket.

But for some of us still, we still find that the course of all history was changed in a moment ... Why if the angels didn't rejoice they would be devils. Why on earth should we not celebrate it?

Random, late night thoughts ...

M
MaryJane

Greetings

I have been praying about this matter of celebrating Christmas for a while now. I have read many things on both sides of the discussion. One of the things I happened across this evening was this written by Spurgeon. I had not read this before but it has given me even more to think and pray about. Not trying to sway anyone one way or the other just thought I would share this with you here on SI. For me the nagging question that I am struggling with is Why? Why am I spending this time of year doing the things that I am.

Anyway just my random thoughts here on a very cold winter night(14 degrees and dropping)

God Bless
MJ


“When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, “Is this a law of the God of Jacob?” and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty. (from Charles Spurgeon’s Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)

“We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly, we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called “Christmas.” We find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior, and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Savior’s birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred…. It was not ‘till the middle of the third century that any part of the Church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not ‘till very long after the Western Church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it.… Probably the fact is that the ‘holy’ days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals.

We venture to assert, that if there be any day in the year, of which we may be pretty sure that it was *not* the day on which the Savior was born, it is the 25th of December. “How absurd to think we could do it (celebrate the birth of Christ) in the spirit of the world, with a Jack Frost clown, a deceptively worldly Santa Claus, and a mixed program of sacred truth with fun, deception, and fiction. If it be possible to honor Christ in the giving of gifts, I cannot see how while the gift, giver, and recipient are all in the spirit of the world. The Catholics and high Church Episcopalians may have their “Christmas” one day in 365, but we have a Christ gift the entire year.” (—Charles H Spurgeon December 24, 1871)

T
TroyorTakoda

The length of a post does not bother me. What bothers me is someone who judges someone else for celebrating something they don't celebrate, when we are not to allow that to happen.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.

Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

I will boldly brush aside any and all ideas which seek to divide the body of Christ, because we are one.

1 Cor. 8:6 For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

We can argue all day and even be right all day but if we don't have love we are still wrong. The apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 had this to say about the matter: If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And if I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing.

Since Christians are brethren, they should not defile nor defame one another. It is required of us that we be tender of the good name of our brethren; where we cannot speak well, we had better say nothing than speak evil. What is this but to raise the hatred and encourage the persecutions of the world, against those who are engaged in the same interests with ourselves, and therefore with whom we ourselves must stand or fall? (Matthew Henry)

To speak evil of one another is what the men of the world do, and from them it is expected; but for the saints to speak evil one of another, to sit and speak against a brother, and slander an own Fathers's son, is barbarous and unnatural. (John Gill)

We set up our own standards, or our own interpretations, and then we judge others for not complying with them, when in fact they may be acting only as the law of Christianity, properly understood, would allow them to do. (Albert Barnes)


Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth set at nought him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Other denominations, though they may differ from us on some subjects, may give evidence that they are recognized by God as His, and where there is this evidence, we should neither despise nor judge them. (Albert Barnes)

1Co 12:4-6 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

1Co 12:15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body.

1Co 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

If you think your particular brand of church is the only one and everyone else is going to hell you make yourself out to be a false accuser of the brethren and a cultist.

His love is perfected by our loving each other. It is incomplete unless His love for us is supplemented by brotherly love. This love in us is the proof that God is in us.

S
sermonindex

Troyer! Amen... this is exactly what I have been trying to say, but you put the words together much better than me!

Mike... excellent. Good thoughts, even if they were random and late at night!

Krispy

W
White_Stone

Dear crsschk,

white stone:If you could show me, in Scripture, the worship of Christ's birth - by the church, [b]not by the angels or shepherds or the wise men[/b], I might relent on my stance.

How much clearer can I make it? Please read Sister MaryJane's post following yours. She quotes Charles Spurgeon and he says the same thing I say. Perhaps you can hear Him through his words.

The Church is in a desperately apostate state and drastic changes are needed to bring about the much longed for and desperately needed revival. Let us clear out all the Man Made routines and traditions and feed directly on the Word of God fed us through the grace of our Lord Jesus.

Kind regards,
white stone

M
MrBillPro

You know after reading this whole thread, I am now more curious to why some folks don't want to observe Christmas, I mean did you not get a certain present you really wanted as a kid? or did you come from a really poor family that could not afford Christmas? did generations of your family members not celebrate Christmas? have you listened to others opinions to draw your conclusions? or maybe a culture thing? or are you just jealous that others do? or yes you knew this one was coming are you just a Grinch? see where I am going here? My family members for generations have always celebrated Christmas so we don't know any different. It's not Biblical that we should not celebrate Christmas, so this is why I would just like to see why folks on the other side of the coin so to say don't want to or are against Christmas.
Thanks
Mr. Bill

W
White_Stone

Dear TroyorTakoda and KrispyKritter,

It pains me to see you have to work so hard to justify your ManMade holiday. Especially to the length you go to use Scripture to do it.

Yes, the Angels sang and the shepherds came and knelt in wonder but that was on the occasion of His birth into the world. If the day of His birth was to be commemorated it would have been done by Paul, of that I am certain. For Paul, himself, said he was 'all things to all men. . .' No other mention of celebration, beyond His mother cherishing those things in her heart. Nothing until the 3rd century - were all those Saints before then remiss in celebrating an undocumented Holy Day?

To have a thread dedicated to Christmas Memories only serves to lift up the holiday in peoples minds and hearts, making it have a 'magical' importance it has not been given by God.

It breaks my heart to think of missionaries, saving souls and then infecting them with the man made celebration. Believe me, the celebration of Christmas is an infection and it has spread to the whole world. They love it, unsaved people love it [b]because it is OF THE WORLD - NOT OF GOD.[/b] My prayers is that God will open your eyes to that, for your sake not for my own satisfaction of being proved right. My own self is nothing - Jesus is everything!

white stone

M
MrBillPro


White_Stone wrote:
To have a thread dedicated to Christmas Memories only serves to lift up the holiday in peoples minds and hearts, making it have a 'magical' importance it has not been given by God.
white stone

Wow! you really read more into Krispy's thread than needed, all he did was start a thread asking folks about there past personal Christmas experiences, how on earth is this some kind of 'magical' importance? I really hate to say this but I will and please don't read more into it than needed but you really "seem" like a bitter person for some reason. I am not calling you bitter "for the record" I am just judging by some of your posts here, that is all I have to go by since I don't know you personally.

W
White_Stone

Dear MrBillPro,

It's not Biblical that we should not celebrate Christmas

Hey, It is not Biblical that we should not drive a car, or not use air conditioning, or not use computers. Laying aside known traditions is not a simple act. It is not possible to do by oneself. It requires the power of the Holy Spirit to strip a lifetime of worldliness from our souls when we accept Jesus as our Lord. You can not put new wine in old bottles. The Holy Spirit is at work in each of us, cleaning house, scrubbing the walls and sidewalks of our heart. It is not a work that gets completed in our lifetime. We will always need scrubbing and mucking out.

We choose who we will serve, let us serve the Living God not the world.
____________________
Had this discussion with a woman on another forum. Her late Father was a pastor and set much store by Christmas. She could not turn her back on the man-made day without feeling she was turning her back on her much loved Father. This may stand in the way of many Saints who are puzzling this issue. We should never let anything stand between us and God.

Is is not my wish to cause anyone distress by making you feel you are deserting your family in this tradition. If the family sees, by your example, they may be saved also. If they are already saved - this does not mean they are free of the [i][color=FF0000]infection[/color][/i] of celebrating a man-made tradition. My prayer is for you to spread the cure.

Kind regards,
white stone

M
MrBillPro


White_Stone wrote:
It requires the power of the Holy Spirit to strip a lifetime of worldliness from our souls when we accept Jesus as our Lord.
Kind regards,
white stone

I am confused here, so are you saying for example Bill Gates "owner of Microsoft" and probably owns more worldly things than most ever will even see, has to get rid of all his money and possessions before he can accept Christ in his life. Bill and Linda probably give more to charity than anyone I know of, but I guess if your rich the Holy Spirit will need to strip a lifetime of worldliness from us to get into the kingdom, wow I really did not know our salvation was conditional, maybe so I learn new things everyday.

M
MaryJane

Greetings Mr. Bill

I wanted to respond to your post asking why some people do not observe Christmas. Dear brother I am not sure if you meant your post to come off as funny but I must say that it did not. It came off as mocking and demeaning. Truthfully is there not a better way to have this discussion then to make fun of others. Perhaps this was not your heart in this matter but as some have said before we must be watchful of how we write and respond to one another. Many have stated that they feel strongly from Father that it is sin for them to take part in this holiday. Many have shared that after heart filled prayers they know that they are not to take part. It is not because they are jealous that you celebrate but because they love the Lord and want to obey Him. Just as I am sure that you do as well.

You also wrote that your family for generations has always celebrated Christmas and that you do not know any different. That is why you celebrate Christmas? That is interesting to me, see in my family there were other man made traditions that have gone on for generations, such as attending the Catholic church, but I don't follow in their traditions any longer. When Jesus opened my eyes and heart to His truth, those lies and traditions from the church died with self and I have been a new creation in Him since. Perhaps it is time for some of us to ask why it is we take part in the things that we do? Not trying to give any answers for anyone but I am asking why. The Bible has a lot to say about the traditions of men, shouldn't we be diligent to heed those warnings in our daily walking with Him. For me I long to hold on to my Lord and Saviour and not to traditions that I may have held for years as a child and into adulthood. There are many traditions, habits, and sins that Father is daily weeding out of my heart, and I pray as each days comes and goes that He will continue to do so and that I will have the ears to hear Him and the eyes to see His truth. That is why I am seeking Him and asking “Why is it that I am doing the things I am in December as well as every other day out of the year?”

Thank you for your consideration
God Bless you
MJ

S
sermonindex

[b]Bill[/b]... calm down, brother. I appreciate your passion, but I fear you may be getting too personal with some of your statements.

[b]White_stone[/b]... you need to chill out too.

You said:

It pains me to see you have to work so hard to justify your ManMade holiday. Especially to the length you go to use Scripture to do it.

That is a very judgemental attitude on display for the whole world to see. Since when does scripture mandate that sort of judgement among the brethren? You dont know me.

I laughed when I read that because it shows that you are agenda driven, and it doesnt matter what I say... you think you know what this is all about. You think I'm fighting so hard to justify something, as if giving gifts to my children was some great sin. As if singing Christmas Carols at the local retirement homes were some great sin. As if serving Christmas dinner at the Rescue Mission on Christmas afternoon were some great sin. That, sir, is generally the main thrust of our Christmas.

How foolish to condemn that.

But the fact is, if you read everything I've written concerning Christmas this year... I have not defended my position one bit. I have not tried to justify anything.

The clarion call I've put out is for brethren to come together and say "we may not agree on this issue, but I love you just the same."

[b]Bill[/b], you seem to be having a hard time grasping that. Who cares if some here dont celebrate Christmas? If thats their conviction, fine. I'm not here to convince them that they should.

[b]White_stone[/b], you're worse about this than Bill is. Time for a reality check... you're not a voice crying in the wilderness. You're not Elijah or John the Baptist. Of all the things to be spending your time doing I hardly think God has called you to condemn all Christians who celebrate Christmas.

What a despicable witness to the world at large.

I have not justified what I do for Christmas one bit. What I have done here is try to get both sides to see that there is grace and mercy to be had in this issue. Love is the issue with me, not some holiday. And there is a general lack of love in your most recent posts.

God has not called you to act with malice and judgement toward your brethren. If you think He has then prehaps it was the devil who whispered in your ear.

Just for the record... Spurgeon is not scripture.

This whole issue would be a joke if the dissention some of you are causing (on both sides) wasn't hellish to the core.

As for the other thread about Christmas memories... you are showing that your reading comprehension is severly lacking. You have not heart or soul if you read that thread and think we're just trying to stir up some "magical" feelings.

Krispy

M
MrBillPro


MaryJane wrote:
Greetings Mr. Bill

Dear brother I am not sure if you meant your post to come off as funny but I must say that it did not.
Thank you for your consideration
God Bless you
MJ

Boy what is up with folks! I was about as sincere as I can possibly be in my post I "was not" trying to be funny, that really was personal slam I do not appreciate it much at all, trust me I do have a serious side, but when you can't even ask a question here in all sincerity and you get these off the wall slams I guess it's best I bow out of this miserable thread.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

M
MrBillPro


KrispyKrittr wrote:
Bill... calm down, brother. I appreciate your passion, but I fear you may be getting too personal with some of your statements.

Krispy

Don't worry I will not post on this thread again. :-(

H
HeartSong

Krispy, you may not realize it, but you just keep fanning the flames . . .


I really wish someone would lock these treads. They are not edifying to anyone and only serve to degrade the name of our Lord, and Saviour, Jesus Christ. :-(

M
MaryJane

Dear brother

I was not trying to slam you.I wrote and asked if you were trying to be funny because I did not want to presume anything about your post or the intention of your post. Perhaps if you feel led to read over what you posted you might see that to someone who does not celebrate Christmas your words sounded mocking. It is difficult to know ones heart from a post on pubic forums so I caution myself and all of us to use care with what we type. Brother I hope you have a good day and that all of our focus would be centered on Him at this time and every day. I have no ill feelings for you or anyone else so please do not think that. I hope you will receive this in the heart it is being written.

God Bless you
MJ

M
MaryJane

Greetings

If any of my post have caused anyone to stumble or sin then please forgive me. I do not want to do anything to bring shame to the name of my Lord. I just want to say that I love you all and pray that Father would show each of us what His heart is and that we will walk in that.

God Bless you brothers and sisters
MJ

S
sermonindex

Krispy, you may not realize it, but you just keep fanning the flames . . .

No no... I'm not going to accept the blame for this. I have consistantly tried to bring both sides together under the banner of 1) understanding, 2) love & 3) mercy. Thats been my message. You will not find one post I've made where I have mocked anyone, accused anyone, or even tried to convince anyone that they are wrong.

And even in the midst of this currect uprising of stirred up passion... my message is the same... stop judging each other!

So no, don't point the finger at me. I know I am an easy target and not well liked by some here, but try to resist the urge.

It's become so rediculous on this forum that I've received a couple of PM's from people wanting to share their Christmas memories on the other thread... but won't for fear of getting attacked by certain individuals. What a pathetic shame and disgusting witness.

I am not upset over the annual Christmas debate. Not at all. But I am shocked and discouraged and ashamed of the way people who call themselves serious believers in Christ treat each other. Some of you have murder in your hearts and you dont even realize it. (Thats not aimed at you MJ)

Krispy

C
crsschk

To have a thread dedicated to Christmas Memories only serves to lift up the holiday in peoples minds and hearts, making it have a 'magical' importance it has not been given by God.

Contrasted with ...

See she had gotten saved before me. We both lived very sinful lives when we met. We lived together and then got married. Just after I came back from Desert Storm she got saved. She had been attending this church while I was gone. While I loved her tremendously, I ridiculed her faith and critisized the church at every change I had. But after much prayer on her part (and long suffering), and the influence and witness of several others, I finally surrendered to the Lord.

I just kinda looked at her wiping back tears. She said "This time last year I was here by myself. I prayed that this year you would be here beside me... and you are. Thats' the best Christmas present I could ever hope for."

I grieve for you sister, seriously. What sort of spirit is it that can be this disconcerted, this cruel, this ... heartless? It's way over the top.

This is yet another thread destined to be locked. I am about to say some things generally that will likely not sit very well with some but must be stated ...

There are many misunderstandings. There is much that is brought in like baggage and casually thrown on the floor of this setting from those newer to this whole surrounding. There is a rudeness of character and conduct, and great sweeping presumptions ...

Over the course of 5 some odd years here we have these uprisings, these seasons where things begin getting out of control. Newer members are welcomed and the odd thought that those trying to moderate matters have some mandate other than to keep things cordial is just as presumptuous and ridiculous.

Does all this apply here? Not necessarily and this may become something of a redundant rant elsewhere. We have been locking posts left and right for some time now and I am hard pressed to recall it ever getting such extremes.

This site is rich in depth and heart searching matters yet we continue to see this sort of divisive sparring, contention, ill-will - personal assaults and attacks - Disregard for some very simple and common place attitudes expressed as guidelines to the benefit of everyone.

The striking thing, the overt, is what is [i]overlooked[/i], not the gears of the mechanism, the topics or discussion at hand.

Dear Brethren, [i]these things ought not to be.[/i].

It is pride. It is presumption. It is harsh, brash, obstinate attitudes. It is down right rude. Defending ourselves when we ought to be pitying them - Boasting when we ought to be humiliated.

I have failed. I have been caught up in it attempting to mitigate it. Do these things not get under our skin? Get something stirred up within us. It's all very, very grievous ...

Whitestone, you were perfectly clear and I have no animosity. My only note was in the odd way that you setup the comment with preconditions - Show me in scripture, just don't use ... these scriptures?

I read Charles Surgeon's notes there as well. I also have been siting on one of his ... Christmas sermons for Dec. 25th of this year. Suffice it to say, this is not all he had to say on the matter over his long history, and to draw a comparison so it is with many things here on SermonIndex.

T
TroyorTakoda

Since when has celebrating Christ been a pagan practice? And since when do we take the word of men over the Word of God?

Again ...

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day

The kingdom of God does not lie in the observance of outward things, but in internal ones, in righteousness and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

If someone says to me that they don't celebrate a day called "Christmas" but rather they celebrate Jesus every day of the year, I have absolutely no problem with that. I will go on celebrating Christmas on December 25th, and I will go on loving my brother who does not celebrate that day.

Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

and that is all I have to say.

S
sermonindex

[b]MaryJane[/b]...

I just want to say publicly that the frustration I expressed yesterday was in no way aimed at, or caused by you. I even stated that, and hope you caught it.

You have been a good example of how you are sticking with your convictions without setting yourself up as judge and jury over those who may not share your convictions.

I respect that. I think it's commendable. Thats how this should be handled. With a godly spirit.

I re-read what I wrote yesterday, and I'm hoping that you did not think for a second that I was going off on you. While I disagree that I am egging on the debate, my tone was not intended to sound as harsh in response as it came across. At least not towards you. Some others here needed a little harshness, but not you.

Praying you understand that.

Love ya, sis...

Krispy

M
MaryJane

Greetings Brother Krispy

Thank you for your last post brother, it was appreciated. I have no hurt feelings, so do not be troubled please.

God Bless you
MJ

H
HeartSong

Krispy,

Forgive me for what I said - I was out of line.

I pray that you, and your family, have a blessed Christmas.

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