women/girls wearing makeup

i am 16 year old girl that would like to know if wearing makeup is bad. i never know what to do and how to look at...opinions...and help?
i have always wanted to ask people that have a close relationship with Christ so that i will bring glory to God with what i do in big and small things.

Thank you

Hello rbetty,

Years before I was saved I stopped using makeup. It was after reading a book that detailed how animals are used in testing for eye makeup and hair dyes. I won't go into detail here but it is beyond cruel. It is truly unthinkable. How could I possibly justify my vanity in light of such acts.

I was not just a casual user, either. I had been painting my face for at least 15 years. It is so unnecessary, too. Now that I look back. Not one man that I ever attracted through the use of make-up was worth the price those animals paid. I was wearing make-up when I met my husband but it was my not painted face that won his heart.

Beauty is only skin deep, especially if it is painted on.

Excuse me for rambling, it is late and I am running down. If you want to talk further I would be glad to PM with you. I don't know if this is terribly edifying to the forum at large. There are many scriptures that caution against painting your face and adorning yourself with tatoo's and plaited hair. Maybe, I will have time to look them up for you tomorrow. Right now, I have to wash a sink full of dishes.

Kind regards,
white stone (janice)

Hello rbetty,

The Lord has given you your own special beauty. It is a beauty that originates from inside of you that can shine forth for all of the world to see.

Unfortunately, there are many people in the world that want to make money, and one of the ways to do this is to tell you that the way that God made you in not good enough - that you need to do, or have certain things, to make you beautiful.

This is done primarily through television, magazines and now the internet. If you watch closely, you will see that what is considered to be beautiful this year will be different next year. They do this on purpose so that we keep buying "new" things so that they can make more money.

One of the problems with this is that when we agree with what other people say is beautiful, we are in essence telling God we do not think that what He made is good enough.

With man's way (outward beauty) we will never really be beautiful because there will always be something more to do. With God's way (inner beauty) we will have a beauty that will never fade.

Hi little sister...

I am a guy, so I can speak by experience: You don't need makeup to be beautiful. My wife doesn't really wear makeup (not much -- if any -- that I know of)...and she is the most beautiful woman that I know (on the inside and outside). We have been married for over a year now...and I think that she is just as beautiful in the morning when she just wakes up as she is in the afternoon (showered, dressed and home from her teaching job). I do my best to tell her this just to let her know how I feel. Her outside beauty is enhance in my eyes by the inner beauty that shines so brightly.

I don't know if makeup is right or wrong...or how much is wrong if some can be right. Sermonindex (Greg) provided a link to some great messages regarding such things. I would also recommend a great deal of prayer about this. If you don't feel right about it...then don't wear it...because you need to have a clear conscience before God. If you feel the liberty to wear it, then do as your conscience dictates as you direct your heart, mind, soul and strength with real Biblical modesty toward God.

I will be praying for you as you seek God's direction in this. Be encouraged, though, because you are not alone. Regardless of what you look like on the outside, you are still the apple of God's eye and the center of His attention.

:-)

Hi rbetty,

One more thing to consider is the possible dangers of cosmetics. Here is a website that will give you some information on the matter.

http://cosmeticsdatabase.com/index.php?nothanks=1

From what I have observed, almost anytime we try to alter what the Lord has made us to be, there are harmful side effects.

If you don't feel right about it...then don't wear it...because you need to have a clear conscience before God. If you feel the liberty to wear it, then do as your conscience dictates as you direct your heart, mind, soul and strength with real Biblical modesty toward God.

When God gives the light, it is a perfectly timed revelation, and an inner transformation is wrought where the believer [i]wants[/i] to obey; but when man gives the light, it is not always guaranteed that God will put authority behind it. As result, it can come off as a usurpation, as a legality and yet another taboo in the long list of "do's and don'ts" that, more often than not, engender rebellion toward the very thing that is being proscribed.

For the record, my wife is very beautiful and doesn't need make-up, but she will from time-to-time put on a bit of blush and lip gloss. She will also wash her hair with a fragrant shampoo she knows I love. I also use a body wash and deodorant I know she likes. We please each other in these things, and our consciences remain clean before God (no pun intended). It would be a travesty on God's grace for a person to clumsily barge into our relationship and begin pointing a finger of personal conviction at matters of our own business - matters that we are sanctioned by God to perform with a clean conscience.

Hello sister,

It warms my heart that you are here ... I could not echo Paul's comments here more fully - It is a very delicate and personal matter that I could not be more careful nor choose my words even more so. There is every possibility that some may, intentionally or not, bring you into a mindset of bondage or legalism over such a matter.

You only need to follow as the Lord leads you, as your conscience directs and as you pray. These things have a way of settling themselves out as you concentrate on more important and internal matters.

The verses that immediately jumped to mind;

[i]Whose adorning let it not be the outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing jewels of gold, or of putting on apparel; but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible apparel of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.[/i] 1Pe 3:3,4

And some commentary from Matthew Henry;

(4.) In preferring the ornaments of the mind to those of the body.

[1.] He lays down a rule in regard to the dress of religious women, 1Pe_3:3. Here are three sorts of ornaments forbidden: plaiting of hair, which was commonly used in those times by lewd women; wearing of gold, or ornaments made of gold, was practised by Rebecca, and Esther, and other religious women, but afterwards became the attire chiefly of harlots and wicked people; putting on of apparel, which is not absolutely forbidden, but only too much nicety and costliness in it. Learn, First, Religious people should take care that all their external behaviour be answerable to their profession of Christianity: They must be holy in all manner of conversation. Secondly, The outward adorning of the body is very often sensual and excessive; for instance, when it is immoderate, and above your degree and station in the world, when you are proud of it and puffed up with it, when you dress with design to allure and tempt others, when your apparel is too rich, curious, or superfluous, when your fashions are fantastical, imitating the levity and vanity of the worst people, and when they are immodest and wanton. The attire of a harlot can never become a chaste Christian matron.

[2.] Instead of the outward adorning of the body, he directs Christian wives to put on much more excellent and beautiful ornaments, v. 4. Here note, First, The part to be adorned: The hidden man of the heart; that is, the soul; the hidden, the inner man. Take care to adorn and beautify your souls rather than your bodies. Secondly, The ornament prescribed. It must, in general, be something not corruptible, that beautifies the soul, that is, the graces and virtues of God's Holy Spirit. The ornaments of the body are destroyed by the moth, and perish in the using; but the grace of God, the longer we wear it, the brighter and better it is. More especially, the finest ornament of Christian women is a meek and quiet spirit, a tractable easy temper of mind, void of passion, pride, and immoderate anger, discovering itself in a quiet obliging behaviour towards their husbands and families. If the husband be harsh, and averse to religion (which was the case of these good wives to whom the apostle gives this direction), there is no way so likely to win him as a prudent meek behaviour. At least, a quiet spirit will make a good woman easy to herself, which, being visible to others, becomes an amiable ornament to a person in the eyes of the world. Thirdly, The excellency of it. Meekness and calmness of spirit are, in the sight of God, of great price - amiable in the sight of men, and precious in the sight of God. Learn,

1. A true Christian's chief care lies in the right ordering and commanding of his own spirit. Where the hypocrite's work ends, there the true Christian's work begins.

2. The endowments of the inner man are the chief ornaments of a Christian; but especially a composed, calm, and quiet spirit, renders either man or woman beautiful and lovely.

Matthew Henry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Too much", "Excessive", "Immoderate", and so forth - I guess I am afraid that might beg the question, 'how much is too much?' - I would again appeal back to our brother Paul's words and maybe add something of a twist on it all, personally.

I am quite a bit older and even at this advanced age still keep my 'longish' hair. It fits my head and alternately, it doesn't when it it is cut too short. It's an unruly beast and strangely looks more 'girly' when it is somewhere in-between, curling up on the ends, all kinds of strange behavior. It's either a crew cut or the more natural length that it dictates on it's own. The former would and often did just the opposite - Made me feel to be someone I am not - Kind of like wearing a three piece suit to a plumbing job. I think there is a key factor in this that some religious fascinations can impress on people, that it puts you out of place, not of conviction but of squaring up to perceptions and expectations of others. If you are doing these things for those reasons and are not comfortable with your own being, no one is the richer for it.

Any number of things are similar - Where a brother is quite comfortable wearing a Cardigan sweater, I would be a fraud to don one. For Krispy (one of our brothers here) to forgo his "High and tight" military-ish hair-cut for something closer to my ... Rod Stewart, David Lee Roth, Barry Manilow, Steve Perry, styled coiffe - (As I am so often asked, "Has anyone ever told you that you look like ________ ) - I am sure would be just as fraudulent.

Some levity, but truth. It's the interior sister, there are some great lines from Matthew Henry above;

[i]A true Christian's chief care lies in the right ordering and commanding of his own spirit.[/i]

[i]Take care to adorn and beautify your souls rather than your bodies.[/i]

[i]Meekness and calmness of spirit are, in the sight of God, of great price - amiable in the sight of men, and precious in the sight of God.[/i]

Pray I haven't over spoken here. A very dear sister that I would appeal to has some good articles that you might be interested in; [url=http://www.moreofhim.net/index.html]More Of Him[/url] and has a daughter somewhat closer to your age, I believe she has a blog as well, just unable to track it at the moment.

We have to be very careful when offering absolutes on non salvific matters, for the hills in this land are known for their slippery slopes.

Your are correct in much of what you have said, but there are other things to be considered.

Many here on SermonIndex must come from a background where the "law" was used as a weapon against them. I, however, came from a background where no one bothered to tell me of these things. While I was headed into danger, I was judged behind my back, but not warned. The result has been that I have done much damage that might have been averted had I but only been warned.

This reminds me of the mudflats around Anchorage Alaska. Not knowing the dangers, many an unsuspecting tourist has wandered out onto this beautiful expanse of mud - only to find themselves stuck and unable to extract themselves. Some have even died as the tide came in and they drowned.

When others come to me and ask me what I know on a matter, I tell them what the Lord has shown me. It is then between them and God. It is much easier to never start something, than it is to unlearn it.

I am sure that the people that end up stuck in the mud initially only step off of the shore to see what the mud is like. They are then drawn further and further away from safety before they become stuck. It is only when the tide begins to come in that they realize the true danger.

We need to warn others of the danger as they step off of the shore - before they become stuck. To tell them that it is o.k., but just don't go too far doesn't make sense, for how does one determine when they have crossed the line into the danger zone?

If we see someone out wandering around on the mud, we also need to warn them. How can one keep a clean conscience in knowing the danger and not sounding the alarm?

When someone has become stuck, we need to help them out of the mud before the tide comes in. To just sit and judge them, but not help, would be the equivalent of murder. However, to know of the danger and never to have warned would be the same.

EDIT: Here is some information on the mudflats.

http://seagrant.uaf.edu/features/earthquake/hazards5.html

Hello :)

I am the one with the daughter -who Mike was refering to. She is now 19. Feel free to email her at arielle.elise@gmail.com or visit her blog at www.xanga.com/arielleelise . She is a very special daughter with a heart for the Lord and for the lost (and yes she does wear some makeup :)

This is a subject that you must take to the Lord for yourself. To be sure, it's not a 'salvation' issue- so no worries there. I think it's wonderful that you want to please the Lord in all areas of your life.

In my own life, I do choose to wear some makeup- not alot. My daughter also does the same. I guess you could say we like to 'enhance' our natural beauty :) Please don't feel condemned if you choose to wear some makeup when you feel it is appropriate. But if you feel strongly at some point that the Lord does not want you to wear it- then don't. It's that simple :)

Blessings to you, Chanin

Hi Laura,

When others come to me and ask me what I know on a matter, I tell them what the Lord has shown me.

Well, I have learnt a few things since then. I have learnt to leave the small stuff to God: tatoos, make-up, music, dancing, T.V., video games, mousse in the hair, jewelry, etc., for these are things that God does microsurgery on as the child grows and progesses to higher levels in His academy. Some of them (in fact, most) fall off completely in time; others are "tweaked" as God tempers the heart. It is not your place nor mine to forbid anyone in God's Name from putting on make-up. When you do this, you deprive the Holy Ghost of His rightful position and impose your own stalwart rules on another. It is much better to point the believer to God, asking, "at 16, why do you feel the need to put on make-up?"

Now, As a grown man, and a loving husband, I can say that I am stunned when my wife puts on a tiny bit of blush, and dresses nice when we go out. I know she does it for me, and my heart skips a beat when I look upon her beauty. Yes, I take much pleasure in the wife of my youth, and we can enjoy each other with clear consciences. Your imposing convictions on mascara would bring instant condemnation into our relationship, if it were the one-size-fits-all instruction as you claim.

Please don't take my challenge the wrong way :)

Brother Paul

Brother Paul,

I am not taking your challenge the wrong way - in fact I appreciate being able to talk around this as some of the things that I see causes me great distress and I want to learn how to "warn" without "judging."

It is not your place nor mine to forbid anyone in God's Name from putting on make-up.

Your imposing convictions on mascara . . .

I am certain that the beauty that your wife possesses has nothing to do with her make up or her clothing, but when you include both in your comments, you tie them together and it sounds as if they do. Is it possible that your reaction is promoting the fact that she wears any make up at all? Or how fancy her clothes are?

The danger is that we are relying on external sources to establish value, which leaves us open to the influence of the enemy. I am sure that the Lord loves the fact that you take delight in each other - but it certainly can't be her make up or her clothing that you love - it is her heart, which shines forth through her eyes, and makes her glow from the inside out. Her external beauty will one day fade, but no one, and nothing, can ever take away the glow that comes from the love of the Lord. It is in Him that all of our value must be established.

When I was younger in the Lord, I preached vehemently against television, sports, against any and all things that I felt were obstacles in a believer's trek to personal holiness

I know a pastor who I deeply respect who calls these things like styles of music, clothing, make-up, hairstyles, etc.... PREFERENCES. And that's mostly just what they are- preferences. Everyone has their 'preference' when it comes to styles of music, styles of hair, clothing style, make-up/no makeup, liking sports,etc....

These are not 'salvation' issues. Why make a big deal about them when they don't effect someone's salvation. Let each be convicted by the Holy Spirit about these preferences. I would rather major on the majors, not the minors. 'Pick your battles'-so to speak :)

Forbearance is a good thing to grow in! :)

In His love, Chanin

Greetings Chanin

Not sure I agree fully with what you wrote about clothing, hairstyles, and makeup just being a preference. I think we need to be very careful and examine our hearts daily to know what the Fathers heart is for us in these areas. Especially in the area of clothing, so much of it today is inappropriate and immodest that it makes it very difficult on young men who love the Lord. My three older boys will not even go to the stores in the summertime anymore unless its very earily in the morning. So many women and young girls barely dressed that it becomes a real problem for them. Even with young women who profess to be walking with the Lord and wear some of the revealing clothing and heavy make up will tell you that its just a preferences and that they like dressing that way. They give no regard to their brothers in Christ or the temptation that they are causing. So in some cases the way some one chooses to dress and exhibit them self can become a sin issue for another.

Anyway just my thoughts.

God Bless
MJ

Hi Laura,

I did not think I was doing this - can you show me what it is that I said that sounds like this?

Sorry, I did not mean you were doing this. Forbid was probably a bad word choice. I apologize.

I am certain that the beauty that your wife possesses has nothing to do with her make up or her clothing, but when you include both in your comments, you tie them together and it sounds as if they do. Is it possible that your reaction is promoting the fact that she wears any make up at all? Or how fancy her clothes are?

Brother Paul

Dear MaryJane,

Just as I was preparing to reply to Chanin you popped in with [i]my reply[/i].

If my [b][size=x-small][color=CC3300][font=Georgia]preferences [/font][/color][/size][/b] disturb another Saint in their walk, it is no longer just a preference - is it? It has become a stumbling block.

I know in my first reply I started with how I could not reconcile my vanity with the torture of helpless animals. In a way, doesn't the wearing of the popular teenage style of makeup (to look more like a raccoon or a harlot) that causes young men to sin, akin with torturing innocent animals?

If you objectively look at it, wearing makeup is an effort to be something you are not. Perhaps you should examine what you do want to be first.

To avoid causing anyone a problem, in the case of married couples going out for an evening, I am certain they have examined their motives. I am speaking to a 16 year old young woman. I know at 16, no one ever spoke to me about considering what my motives were OR about the consequences of my actions.

You see, at 16, wearing make-up is mor than a 'preference.' It is a statement. Dear rbetty, please consider why you feel you need makeup, or want it. Believe me, it will not change anything except how the boys at school think of you. You really don't want their attention if it is for the wrong reason. You might think you do but nothing is as it seems it will be.

Kindest regards,
white stone

Kindest regards,
white stone

MaryJane wrote:
Greetings Chanin

Not sure I agree fully with what you wrote about clothing, hairstyles, and makeup just being a preference. I think we need to be very careful and examine our hearts daily to know what the Fathers heart is for us in these areas. Especially in the area of clothing, so much of it today is inappropriate and immodest that it makes it very difficult on young men who love the Lord. My three older boys will not even go to the stores in the summertime anymore unless its very earily in the morning. So many women and young girls barely dressed that it becomes a real problem for them. Even with young women who profess to be walking with the Lord and wear some of the revealing clothing and heavy make up will tell you that its just a preferences and that they like dressing that way. They give no regard to their brothers in Christ or the temptation that they are causing. So in some cases the way some one chooses to dress and exhibit them self can become a sin issue for another.

Anyway just my thoughts.

God Bless
MJ

Not at all, sister. The clothes and blush simply accentuate her natural beauty, they enhance. This is a thread about make-up, and cosmetics, which is why I mentioned them. They are contributors to the aesthetical factor in human beings. In my very first post, if you remember, I said that my wife doesn't need make-up or fancy clothes to look beautiful - and I am well aware that these are products of vanity, they are of the earth. Her true beauty, to me, transcends the mere physical, and this I have come to cherish and adore above all else.

You are right of course. Let me try saying it a different way.

When you said:

It is much better to point the believer to God, asking, "at 16, why do you feel the need to put on make-up?"

Now, As a grown man, and a loving husband, I can say that I am stunned when my wife puts on a tiny bit of blush, and dresses nice when we go out.

This is not really my point either - I think I am starting to sound nit-picky (am I?). While we must take care not to be judgmental of others, we must take equal care not to justify away what the Lord may be desirous of having another do - for it is quite possible that we are in error, or that what is acceptable for us, may not be acceptable for another.

Do you not think that a 16 year old (or almost any woman) might get the idea that men love it when they wear make up. I know that it is not what you intended to say, and that you clarified it other places, but do you see that they might tend to focus on that one statement?

That is all that matters - but for some, it is not sufficient. If that were all that was offered as a response, I wouldn't have felt a need to contribute to this topic. I think she deserves to hear it from another side, from the side of grace and sensitivity. Wearing make-up is not an anathema, neither is wearing nice clothes or doing your hair up. It's all about the motive. The precious spikenard poured on the Lord's head raised legalistic vituperations from the observers, but, again, He brought it back to [i]motive[/i], and the woman was gloriously vindicated.

I have learnt to direct people to the same Lord when it comes to issues like this. "Should I wear make-up?" Well, it depends. What are your motives for putting on make-up? "Should I wear this dress?" Well, it depends. What are your motives for wearing this dress? "Shall I pour out this costly fragrance?" Well, it depends. What are your motives? To glorify Christ? To please your husband? Can you do it and yet your heart remain undefiled?

This is not really my point either - I think I am starting to sound nit-picky (am I?).

In fact, you've been really nice and you bring up valid points. I can only hope that my behavior is the same!

Happy New year,

Paul

In fact, you've been really nice and you bring up valid points. I can only hope that my behavior is the same!

Happy New year to you also.

When I was a teenager I heard and old timey preacher giving advice to men in a sermon. He commented that the men would not be nearly as lustful after other women if they would stop forbidding their wives to look 'nice'.

He commented to the effect (speaking to pentecostal holiness men) that they are particularly bad about trying to dress their wives as poorly as they could and then wondered why they had a lust problem. If you would buy your wife some nice clothes like those you may actually be attracted to her instead of that other woman.

I found it to be good wisdom. ;-)

I don't believe that a person has to look bad to be holiness. I think the motivation has to be right. If a man or woman seeks to exalt themselves or draw attention to themselves by their dressing, it could be sin. In a church gathering you run the risk of dividing the worship. This could be male or female.

Robert W,

First you say this:

Truly, if God were to jerk the covers on most peoples lives I believe there would be great distress.

And then you say this:

I don't believe that a person has to look bad to be holiness.

Please clarify for it sounds as if you are saying that people that wear simple clothing and/or do not wear make up "look bad" . . .

I find that those who are the most beautiful in the world when it comes to beauty are radiant with the life of Christ and it's spiritual not physical.

Sister, I would encourage you to seek to please Christ and not men. And be confident in Christ and have your self-esteem in Him.

rbetty, I think the above answer is an excellent one. Once you resort to rationalizing you are working to find reasons to [i]not[/i] do what the Holy Spirit is leading you to do. We usually do not understand all the reasons why God wants us to do certain things, but we must be obedient anyways. This act of obedience is called 'faith'!

Best wishes and God bless,
ginnyrose

I myself still wear mascara. I know that the Lord would rather that I did not, but I have blond eyelashes and I have worn it for so long that I feel ugly without it.

Since I'm a young man, I would like to approach you with respect and ask you, HeartSong, a sincere question. Why are you telling this young lady not to wear make-up when you still do? Even when you know the Lord would rather you not wear it.

I do not ask this to start a fight, but rather for us to examine and see what damage this might do.

Blessings to you!

Hi HomeFree89...

Why are you telling this young lady not to wear make-up when you still do? [u]Even when you [b]know[/b] the Lord would rather you not wear it[/u].

If the underlying problem with makeup is immodesty...then is it possible to wear at least some makeup in a modest way? My wife does wear a very limited amount of makeup from time to time. So does my mother. They don't "cake" on makeup and limit its use quite a bit...but it is just something they do to enhance their natural beauty (in my opinion, no different from women who prefer to wear a particular color to "bring out their eyes" or men who wear gel or hairspray to keep their hair from looking unkept). I know many other godly women who feel the liberty to wear some makeup. Believe me when I say this: This isn't done to draw ungodly attention to themselves.

Our body is certainly the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yet even the early temple was ordained with materials meant to enhance its beauty. Read I Samuel chapter 7 and learn about all of the "unnecessary" additions to the Temple of Solomon -- including sculptured lilies, pomogranates, cheribum, lions and palm trees. These things weren't needed for the service of the Lord...yet were included in the construction anyway. Now, I am not saying that we should all go out and "enhance" our features with makeup, particular colors of clothing or nice haircuts or doses of hairspray. Rather, I feel that such petty issues are a personal matter between a person's conscience as they strive to please God.

Would it be proper to speak as if we have a 100% certainty regarding the thoughts of God about this...or should we inject those two words of disclaimer that reveal our own limited humanity: "[i]I feel[/i]..." I have actually heard comments about people with various opinions in such matters. One brother made a remark about a woman, "[i]If that woman REALLY knew the heart of God, she wouldn't wear those pants...[/i]" I angrily told him, "[i]If you really wanted to please God, you wouldn't gossip about her behind her back[/i]!" (I did apologize to him later). I just think that we should strive to please God with a clear conscience...and not inject our opinions or suppositions of the matter without identifying them as such.

This wonderful little sister, rbetty, visited our little forum and asked a sincere question. We should be very careful on how we answer her...as any "certainty" of this issue is unclear in the Scriptures -- no matter how we feel about it. I am sure that God has an opinion of the matter...but not in a Pharisitical way.

I looked up the word "makeup in the Bible" on Google...and there were at least a dozen web articles on the first few pages that speak with such absolutes regarding the matter -- all claiming to know the "truth" about it. Yet the whole "truth" of the matter is that the Bible does not address the issue of makeup specifically, and that our "guesses" or "beliefs" are only created after reading supporting passages and deducing that they relate to makeup. We need to be extremely mindful to clarify the difference between what we FEEL the Lord thinks of such a matter and what we KNOW the Lord thinks.

The underlying principle, in my opinion, is regarding issues of vanity and modesty. We must strive to live, move and have our being while forsaking fleshly vanity and immodesty. Yet I know men who wear no makeup yet live for the vanity of their bodies. They don't use makeup, but they wear "sharp" clothing (even nice suits), well pressed shirts with creases, fine tapered hair cuts and well-polished shoes. I somehow think that the poor guy who wears his "everyday" outfit of old shirts and jeans or slacks to "Church" might somehow be less vain than these.

None of us wear the uncomfortable garments (mostly robes) of the first century (thank the Lord!). We don't use 66+ "scrolls" to read the Word of God. We have Bibles...some in black, some in blue, some in red, some in leather, some in cloth, and some in multiple colors (or even with pictures) -- yet it doesn't change what is found on the inside. I think that is a good thing to think about. Vanity and modesty are far more important issues of the heart than they are of the outward appearance. It is our duty as believers to have a clear conscience before God in such issues rather than to simply please some person who thinks that their views or beliefs are the only ones that count (or that their specific views are absolutely representative of the mind of God).

I would encourage our little sister to take care of the inner questions first (vanity or modesty) and simply strive for a clear conscience before God with this matter.

:-)

Hi Chris,

If you go back and look at my post, you'll notice that I was quoting HeartSong. She's the one that admitted she wears mascara("I know that the Lord would rather that I did not").

I was simply asking HeartSong why she was telling someone not to wear makeup, but then wearing it herself.

Hi RBetty, You have received three pages of advice, and I’m wondering if you are feeling overwhelmed by now. Wouldn’t it be nice to receive a simply “yes” or “no” answer without all the extra discussion. Too bad life isn’t that simple! For example:

Years ago, when I was just a bit older than you – about 21 yo, I was working in a hospital. One day a doctor came up to me and took my hands and squeezed my fingernails. (He wouldn’t dare do that today!) When I asked him what he was doing he said he was worried that I may be anemic and was just checking. (I have a fair completion, and under neon lights I can look like death warmed over.) After that day I made sure to wear makeup at work!

In most situations outside my home I wear some makeup- though I’d rather not bother. When I am in the public eye, and especially on a platform under bright lights, I add a bit extra. It is simply a case of respect for others.

The choices all of us make regarding our grooming habits can’t change us. They don’t make us better or worse people, but they do tend to reflect our view of ourselves.

If you did just what you wanted to, what would that say about you? Is that the person you wish to be?

Diane

Hi HomeFree89...

If you go back and look at my post, you'll notice that I was quoting HeartSong. She's the one that admitted she wears mascara("I know that the Lord would rather that I did not").

I was simply asking HeartSong why she was telling someone not to wear makeup, but then wearing it herself.

[u]Even when you know the Lord would rather you not wear it[/u].

Chris wrote:
I still think that we need to avoid the use of absolutes with our rhetoric regarding an issue that isn't entirely clear.

HomeFree89 wrote:
I do not ask this to start a fight, but rather for us to examine and see what damage this might do.

Hi Heartsong...

Chris wrote:
"I still think that we need to avoid the use of absolutes with our rhetoric regarding an issue that isn't entirely clear."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He is absolute.

We can hold true to our convictions...but we need to be cautious when claiming that the specifics regarding those convictions are undeniably the wishes of God.

In regards to myself, I am absolutely certain where God stands on this issue. He has made His wishes perfectly clear.

As for the rest of you, that is between you and Him.

rbetty asked a question. I felt led to bring forth what the Lord has shown me. It is now between her and the Lord.

Unless the Lord has shown you that this issue is "superficial" - it would seem to me to be very unwise to label it as such. Our ways are not His ways.

Hi HeartSong...

I am not saying that this issue is "superficial" in a practical sense -- but I know some people who act as if the weight of salvation depended upon whether or not a woman wore a little blush!

As for whether or not this issue is clear: I am perfectly fine with people who think that they heard the "final word" of the Lord regarding this matter (at least, for them personally). The problem arises when people try to assume that their belief and God's opinion of the matter are one and the same (and it is still only a [u]belief[/u]...because it is not clearly spelled out in the Word beyond all variance of opinion)...and that all must adhere to it if you are one of those who "really hear God's voice and truth."

Of course, I know that this isn't your intention or even what you are saying. But there is a 16 year old little sister who asked a sincere question. Should any of us act as though we KNOW what God ultimately and undeniably thinks of the matter? I think that Brother Paul said it best when he stated that this is a matter for the Holy Spirit to work out with a sincere believer who prayerfully and earnestly seeks the truth and a clear conscience before God.

You may think that you know where God "absolutely" stands on the issue for you personally...and my wife may feel somewhat different -- even after earnestly seeking the answer from God. My wife does not have an "absolute" answer either way about the matter. She rarely wears much makeup anyways...and doesn't feel any spiritual prohibition when she does (of course, she doesn't "cake it on"). When she does where makeup, it is usually a little blush...or lip gloss...or pimple-cover...which looks very natural...and doesn't look any different from those girls who have this occur on their face naturally. She feels confident in her liberty to wear such things from time to time...and she is a very prayerful and modest woman. Yet my wife would be VERY hesitant to tells someone that God "absolutely" told her the answer.

The principle remains, however. We must strive to have a clear conscience before God and operate in the liberty that He provides while cautious in our representation of His holiness to this dark world. However, this does not mean that we are to live like the Amish who shun any color out of FEAR that they are drawing attention to themselves (or are being "worldly" by wearing the color orange...or yellow...or red...etc...). I am concerned that our attempts to impress this young sister in the Lord with such strong statements might be the equivalent of taking some of the responsibility that is reserved for the Holy Spirit.

:-(

No, sweetie. Wearing make-up is not bad. It is not a sin, and no matter what anyone says you should seek the Lord on this issue and not [i]mans[/i] doctrine. If it is a conviction that you feel the Lord has given you to not wear make-up then you should listen to the Lord. But there are so many people who want to sway others with mans opinion instead of the Word of God and instead of encouraging you to seek out His will for your life.

Please just seek the Lord in this matter and if He is not telling you that it is wrong for you then you shouldn't feel shame or guilt for wearing make-up. I hope that the Lord guides your heart in this matter. =0)

Good Morning, rbetty,

So, how does this issue stand with you? You are getting plenty of justification for wearing make-up, aren't you? Does that make you feel it is OK?

Many of the men say that their wives only wear a little 'blusher.' They seem more interested in justifying their wives wearing and their appreciation of it, then they are for seeking to find out more about you.

No one seems to have tried to get any idea of just what you mean when you say you are thinking of wearing make-up. Do yo have friends in school that do wear it? Do they use eye liner, eye shadow and mascara? Do they use a foundation and blush for contouring? Do they use the glitter for highlighting? Do they use the highly glossy lip coating? How about lip liner? Or, the lipstick with flavoring? Can you spot their makeup from a block away? Or, is it subtle and unnoticeable?

Of the teenage girls in the grocery and stores when I am shopping, there are two groups that I see; those that do not wear makeup and those that do. Those that do are young and have yet to learn that less makeup is attractive and flattering. More is cheapening and coarse. I remember being 16 and mistakenly glamorizing the idea of being viewed as wanton and wild. My family did not express any objection to my wearing makeup. My Mother encouraged me in my dreams of being glamorous and seductive. She gave me very bad advice!

My family attended Church and I was involved in activities with the other youth at the Church. I remember the girls who did not wear makeup, they learned to play the piano and studied higher education. I had nothing in common with them. My family life was not supportive to the life style they had and I viewed them as boring and plain. How wrong I was. They were busy laying a firm foundation for their lives, one founded upon Jesus. I faced my future with no firm foundation. A foundation of vanity is treachrous and leads to Hell (right here on Earth and after death, too).

If you approach life thinking, 'If I only could enhance this feature, they will notice me, or approve of me,' how do you think it will work for you? You are what you are, that is how God formed you, try staying as close to that as you can because, you know it is good in His eyes.

Do I wish I had been given Godly parents? I did but now I have forgiven them for their ways. I have learned to accept the good providence of God that I was at least born in a Country that still allows me to read the Bible and follow my convictions. I could have been born in a Muslim Country and had the face of Jesus hidden from me for my whole life. Thank God, He kept calling me until He unstopped my ears and I could hear Him. I can not change any of my past but, Lord willing, I can use my experiences for His glory.

What I want to say, first and foremost from what I have read in the Bible, we are called to come out of the world. Of course, we still have to live on Earth and must interact with other Humans, but we do not have to adapt their customs and habits.

If you keep yourself pure you will be better suited for a Godly man. If you marry a Godly man you stand a better chance of having Godly children and of living a Godly life. If you are leading a Godly life, God will reveal more of Himself to you and this will bring more joy then you are able to undestand at 16. My walk with God did not begin until later in my life. The sting and pain of my sins will always be with me. If in any way I can help another avoid the traps I fell into - this is my wish.

In retrospect, I wish I had emulated the lives of the Godly young women in my Youth Group and not started wearing makeup. They talk, in all the anti-drug commercials, about 'entry level' drugs, I pesonally believe, makeup is addictive and drug like in it's effects. If you never used it you would never miss it. Just listen to the ones who say they use it recreationally. How they justify it. If it was not something wrong, why do they have to justify.

They say it is a 'gray' area and that there is no Biblical reference 'directly' against it, they go by their conscience. It is safer to err on God's side than on the World's side, in my opinion. Especially when advising a young girl about something that is such a slipery slope.

You will be in my prayers and I look forward to hearing from you. Please, first and foremost, continue reading the Bible. You can not go wrong if you are grounded in God's word. Pray for Wisdom and to do His will.

Kindest regards,
white stone

Chris,

I have a question for you: why are you so defensive about this issue? I suspect your toes may have been stepped on...?

ginnyrose

So, how does this issue stand with you? You are getting plenty of justification for wearing make-up, aren't you? Does that make you feel it is OK?

Many of the men say that their wives only wear a little 'blusher.' They seem more interested in justifying their wives wearing and their appreciation of it, then they are for seeking to find out more about you.

And you would misrepresent us, though we have appealed that she seek the Lord over this.

Besides;

Of the teenage girls in the grocery and stores when I am shopping, there are two groups that I see; those that do not wear makeup and those that do. Those that do are young and have yet to learn that less makeup is attractive and flattering. More is cheapening and coarse.

You are contradicting yourself and those you accuse of 'justifying' themselves or their wives when you just now forward the same exact idea. What is the problem?

Do I wish I had been given Godly parents? I did but now I have forgiven them for their ways.

[i]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.[/i] Luk 18:11,12

In retrospect, I wish I had emulated the lives of the Godly young women in my Youth Group and not started wearing makeup. They talk, in all the anti-drug commercials, about 'entry level' drugs, I pesonally believe, makeup is addictive and drug like in it's effects. If you never used it you would never miss it. Just listen to the ones who say they use it recreationally. How they justify it. If it was not something wrong, why do they have to justify.

The grand point of all of this is not justification but the striking down of this legalistic, Pharisaical spirit - which you have, which you promote and which is weaved through like a poison in your comments.

And Ginny, not to speak in Chris' stead but I believe this is the root of his likewise indignation.

[i]If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.[/i] Joh 7:23,24

June 29th.

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DIRECTION OF DISCIPLINE
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"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell." Matthew 5:30

Jesus did not say that everyone must cut off the right hand, but - If your right hand offends you in your walk with Me, cut it off. There are many things that are perfectly legitimate, but if you are going to concentrate on God you cannot do them. Your right hand is one of the best things you have, but, says Jesus, if it hinders you in following His precepts, cut it off. This line of discipline is the sternest one that ever struck mankind.

When God alters a man by regeneration, the characteristic of the life to begin with is that it is maimed. There are a hundred and one things you dare not do, things that to you and in the eyes of the world that knows you are as your right hand and your eye, and the unspiritual person says - Whatever is wrong in that? How absurd you are! There never has been a saint yet who did not have to live a maimed life to start with. But it is better to enter into life maimed and lovely in God's sight than to be lovely in man's sight and lame in God's. In the beginning Jesus Christ by His Spirit has to check you from doing a great many things that may be perfectly right for everyone else but not right for you. See that you do not use your limitations to criticize someone else.

It is a maimed life to begin with, but in v.48 Jesus gives the picture of a perfectly full-orbed life - "Ye shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

My Utmost for His Highest
by Oswald Chambers

Sister Ginny...

I have a question for you: why are you so defensive about this issue? I suspect your toes may have been stepped on...?

I suppose that I am, however, worried about those who would attempt to step on the toes of this little sister with their own particular opinions about the matter (but would attribute those opinions as the undeniable truths of God).

You see, sister, this is a difficulty here on SermonIndex. We are a collection of heartfelt believers from many different backgrounds and stages in our Christian pilgrimage. Is this the place to push our opinions as fact...or to discuss them with patience (considering others before ourselves)? It may seem that those who are against makeup are simply "sharing" -- but why do we need to speak with absolutes regarding this issue? I've noticed that those who are willing to hold the measuring rod in regard to issues of "holiness" are often the one's who feel the liberty to vocally share their views in a manner that is indisputable (at least, to them). It shouldn't be that way with those who are against makeup OR those who say that they feel the liberty to wear some.

The bottom line of holiness is to know what God thinks of the matter...and if that is not clear, to strive for a clean conscience before God. It isn't to have denominations and seperate congregations that interact only with those who adhere to a particular set of rules regarding the conduct or physical propriety of holiness (unless it is EXCEEDINGLY clear from God's Word). While some may feel that God's thoughts about makeup are exceedingly clear in His Word -- I think that there is a problem with this! Are we so quick as to make such a presumption when it isn't entirely spelled out in the Word of God? We are connecting dots "A" and "Z" because we think that we know the end of the route. Yet we don't know the interlining dots between "A" and "Z" might form a more perfect map. The end of the question for that little sister (rbetty) can only be answered by the Holy Spirit as she seeks a clear conscience. We can share...but we need to be careful that our "sharing" doesn't take the form of "this is what God wants."

Now, this is usually a small matter (in terms of eternity). There are things that we can be firm about and speak with absolutes...because they are absolutely spelled out in the Scriptures. This? This is a lot of opinion.

*EDIT - I know that the path to eternity is "straight and narrow." Yet I think that it is presumptious to assume that those who aren't walking exactly as we walk (or feel that we should walk) are NOT on the "straight and narrow." I'm not saying that you (or anyone else here) is doing as much...but these sort of conversations often have a way of straying into such rhetoric (or impressions...even if they aren't meant as such).

Greetings

I wanted to share with you if I may some thoughts by other sisters concerning this topic of make up. I know many others have given you their thoughts here on Sermon index both for and against the wearing of make up. If I may, I think the best place to start in this situation is for you to go to your mother and father. Ask them for their thoughts on this matter. Your father is your covering as you are still only 16, so hearing his thoughts would be beneficial for you. Also if you have some older sisters in Christ near you who you know are walking with the Lord ask them to pray with you on this matter and take it before the Lord. In most of these kinds of things(makeup, clothes, and so forth) there is a heart issue involved. Pray and seek Him concerning your heart in this matter. Ask Him to reveal to you what the motivation of your heart is in this. To make a SPIRITUAL decision, we need a SPIRITUAL understanding and foundation beneath our feet. Get in your Word and spend time seeking His heart on this issue. Sometimes I find that the surface reasons I do things are often not the real force that drives the desire of my heart. Honestly we need to as women in Christ walk in such a way that we are not trying to draw attention to ourselves for vanity reasons, but that does not mean that we have to wear a bag over our head either. Father created beauty in the world around us, a rose in full bloom, a babies laugh, the sun setting on a warm summers evening....these things are all beautiful and given to us by Him. Beauty is NOT the enemy. Vanity and worldly patterns of thinking are the enemy. A splash of color to contrast or highlight something I am wearing is not a problem. God created colors, hues, contrasts, etc… The danger comes when I am getting some kind of pleasure to my flesh or feeding vanity in some way. A hairstyle, simple pair of earrings, or touch of some make-up is not the enemy. Again, the danger comes with our motives and finding any kind of identity in those things. As always it does go back to why you are doing what you are doing. If birthed in flesh it will produce fleshly babies. UCK! If birthed in the walking in the life, freedom, and spirit of Jesus it will birth good fruit in the spirit.
Think about how this exact same scenario can produce much different fruit. Put the exact same clothing, earrings, makeup up, and hairstyle on two women. Depending on their hearts and motives they can emanate two completely different things. One brings a smile to your spirit and soul as you look on her freshness. The other brings an uncomfortable feeling to your spirit. It wasn’t the externals that were the enemy, but what the spirit within was emanating. Make sense? We can appreciate and find pleasure in the beauty that God has given individuals (it is there). He has placed it within us to appreciate and enjoy it. However we must be aware of the dangers that come with that and avoid those pitfalls.

These are just a few of the thoughts shared among other sisters in Christ on this matter, who like you desire to know His heart for them. In the end what matters most is that you search your heart before Father and seek to do His will. Daily walk this out with Him and He will give you direction in this and all things.
God Bless you
MJ

White_Stone wrote:

It is safer to err on God's side than on the World's side, in my opinion. Especially when advising a young girl about something that is such a slipery slope.

The lack of humility with this comment, about THIS topic is astounding.

Your opinion is of no matter here. The Lord's will is all that matters. To place a yolk on this young sister based on your opinion, then speaking as if it was the Lord's very own, puts YOU on a slippery slope.

rbetty, seek your parents guidance, and seek the Lord's guidance. Rest assured that if you are a child of God, He is not an absenty Father, and He will not lead you astray.

[u][b]Matthew 11:30 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

I pray that He leads you in the direction that He wants you to move. Listen to your parents and listen to the Lord. The rest of this sound, including myself, is only clutter.

Here is something to think about:

You are holding in your hand an apple. It is a beautiful apple, bright and shiney, and you are just about to bite into it because you are very hungry. What you do not realize is that the apple is full of poison - but from all outward appearances it looks fine.

What would the Lord have to do to convince you not to bite into that apple?

Greetings HeartSong

Not sure that your analogy of the apple works here. See an apple does not have a heart. The young sister who asked this question about make up does. Father looks at the heart in these matters. Honestly even if she chose not to wear make up just because some one told her not to and she went along only to please that person she would still be in sin against God because she was not seeking to please the Lord but men.
Just because someone wears make up does not make them sinful. Many women who have professed to love the Lord, wear no make up and seem very holy on the outside are filled with much sin in their heart that they refuse to look at or examine daily.( going back to the point that beauty itself is not sinful, its the heart of the person that Father looks at.) This young sister needs time to spend with Father and seek His heart for her in this matter.

God Bless
MJ

Hi RBetty, You have received three pages of advice, and I’m wondering if you are feeling overwhelmed by now. Wouldn’t it be nice to receive a simply “yes” or “no” answer without all the extra discussion.

I have read the advice, shared by many as well as the opinions and answers. It's a bit misleading or mishap when conveying your thoughts after being on a forum and speaking to a host of people not to mistakenly use there same dialogue. It gives the interpretations of who you are really speaking too.

There are many who where make-up and look outstanding as you may find those who do not and still look outstanding. It's who you are inside and how you see yourself that matters.

Your inner beauty will always reflect in the outside. If your feeling confident, if you have faith in yourself your goals and expectations will shine like someone wearing mascara or whatever they choose to put on there eyes or eyelashes.

Hi MJ,

This young sister needs time to spend with Father and seek His heart for her in this matter.

The problem is, we creatures are always trying to apply our logic to everything (not you in particular - and I am also at fault). There may be reasons that we know nothing of, as to why the Lord may not want her to wear makeup. Many here are saying that just a little bit should be fine - but that is not necessarily true. It could be that there is something in her system that is going to be poisoned by it. It could be that there is something in her nature whereby a little bit could take her deep into sin.

It is in the vain things of this world that we are tricked by Satan into doing things that harm us.

Jesus Christ saves us from hell.
Jesus Christ saves us from sin.
Jesus Christ saves us from the things of this world
- from things that will kill us
- from things that will lead us into sin.

If we will but only listen - to Him - and Him alone.

Hi there, I usually do not post on this website except to ask a random question every now and then! I went through the same question about makeup with the Lord - rbetty and He did really answer. I will pray for you.
Praise God that you are 16 and seeking Him about this.
In Jesus' Love,

Hi Heartsong...

You are holding in your hand an apple. It is a beautiful apple, bright and shiney, and you are just about to bite into it because you are very hungry. What you do not realize is that the apple is full of poison - but from all outward appearances it looks fine.

What would the Lord have to do to convince you not to bite into that apple?

We need to be careful less we find ourselves placing words into God's mouth. Even if they are well-meaning or something that we are pretty convinced of, we need to have a disclaimer when we speak of such things that are not ENTIRELY clear from the Word of God.

:-(

So...are you that sure that this is poison that would kill someone?

Heartsong...

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" - Genesis 3:4

I hope that you wouldn't insinuate something as ridiculous as this.

:-(

rbetty wrote:

i am 16 year old girl that would like to know if wearing makeup is bad. i never know what to do and how to look at...opinions...and help?

rbetty, I have been doing a lot of thinking on this issue since I first read your post and wonder how I should answer your question in more detail then what I already have. What follows is my insight.

The purpose for wearing make-up is to beautify your physical body. Females love beauty and men love to look upon beauty - and females are not adverse to it, either. But what does the scripture say? Could we start there? How about 1 Peter 3:3-4:

Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

In these verses we see how women were depending on adorning themselves with 'things' but the Holy Spirit through Peter instructs us that it is the hidden man - the heart - that one should allow to adorn a person. How is this done? When you are at peace with yourself because of the peace of God that rules within, it will show on your face, in your eyes. It will also be demonstrated in how you dress your body, but that is another subject....you asked about make-up. So when peace rules your spirit, your face will be beautiful because it will be 'sweet'. People who harbor sin, practice sin will have have the marks of sin on their faces/eyes - the eyes will have a 'black look' that can easily be discerned by others. So, you may think you are physically ugly...well, to tell you the truth, not many folks are actually beautiful or handsome. But their character will either enhance their ugliness or erase it. I know people who are not pretty or handsome - leaning more towards being ugly - but are wonderful people because of their character and one barely notices what they look like!

Let me share one story: when I was a counselor at CPC I had a client one day who I was convinced was the most beautiful female I have ever seen. She was either a quadroon* or a mulatto, I am not sure. I sat there and just looked at her - her beauty was a feast for eyes. She had a beautiful figure and I wondered how on earth she escaped notice by the modeling industry. Anyhow, as her story unfolded, her beauty faded to ordinary. She was no longer beautiful but a pitiful wretched person who spurned the LORD. So tragic. Sin will do that.

Now, I suggest you let the Spirit of God rule your heart, mind, soul and body and in the process ask him how you should decorate you face..

Hope this helps..

ginnyrose

*quadroon - is a person who is 1/4 Negro and 3/4 White. A mulatto is half Negro and half White.

Chris,

rbetty asked a specific question. Don't specific questions deserve a specific answer?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Hi ginnyrose...

rbetty asked a specific question. Don't specific questions deserve a specific answer?

We can certainly share our views with patience and longsuffering. Yet we need to hesitate before we go about saying that our opinion is God's opinion...when this is in and of itself just a personal opinion.

:-)

:oops:

Chris,

Correct me if I am wrong...but you seem to be thinking that ANY makeup is a "poison" apple that would kill the soul...and my post was somehow Satanic? I hope that you wouldn't insinuate something as ridiculous as this.

What would the Lord have to do to convince you not to bite into that apple?

If you only rely upon what you know and what you see, you will eat the poison apple.

If you set aside that which you know and see, and listen for the voice of the Lord, He will keep you from eating the poison apple.

It is only in Him that one can be ABSOLUTELY sure that they will not bite into a poison apple. But we must lay aside our intellectualizing, justifying, and quantifying in order to hear His voice. We must humble ourselves and ask Him what He would have us to do. We must listen for His answer and be prepared to obey. We must quit trying to steer the boat onto our own shore for He is our only safe harbor. Only He knows the truth - because He alone is Truth.

Jesus Christ will set you free from all uncertainty - if you will but trust and obey.

G'day rbetty,

Background
I am a guy. I use face crèame because my skin needs moisturizing. I also use the same creame my sister uses cause i feel i am closer to her in a sense. I do not think it’s a sin to use moisturizer.

I want to thank you for posting this question. Very few girls have the courage to post such things. It shows me that you are serious about keeping a clear conscience. Since you are seeking to be a disciple I will speak to you as one. I will write to you as if you are my own sister.
Now the brothers and sisters have done a fantastic job giving you the answers with scripture and I agree with the word.
How would you feel if the answer was a no? Would you be happy about not wearing makeup? That’s more important than the answer itself. Yes it’s easy to acknowledge that you are crucified but are you satisfied?
Do not bring an offering of worship tainted with a grudging attitude. It will be a dead work! The bible wants us to repent of dead works. Hebrews 6:1
So if you decide not to wear makeup but you’re not happy and you feel like you’re in a jail cell. Then please wear it. Is it the right thing? Probably not! What did you just give me wrong advice? No all I am saying is whatever you do, do it with a joyful heart. That’s very important. If you find it difficult to give it up then clearly there is a pull from the world there. Isolate the target and Attack it in prayer. Ask the Lord to help you with crucifying these desires. Do not be mastered by it. And this is the general principle.
2 Peter 2:19
They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him.
The flip side!
Romans 14 is important in all these contexts. I would strongly recommend you read it. I was thinking about a similar issue. Alcohol! ( I do not drink Alochol)
Romans 14:13
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way.
Is another Christian going to be stumbled in their walk because you wore makeup. I don’t know the answer to this question but you would know and perhaps the other Christian may or may not know. Seek the Lord in prayer.
When should you put makeup on?
Now I think most women I assume do put make when they get married. Even the most spiritual ones. Now sister you may wonder is this not sin! I personally do not think so! There is freedom to wear makeup as long as you do it to the glory of God. As a matter of fact I do not know of any person personally who has never worn makeup during their wedding day.
I personally like people without make up because it brings out that raw beauty captured in the face! There is innocence about this. Not that I have had hours to pontificate on this raw beauty concept but it’s true.
What if you were a news reader or professionally you require makeup? Don’t they put make up? Yes they do but the context is different. They are doing it because of technical reasons... I do not have time to elucidate. So what if you’re a Christian and your job requires you to wear makeup is it a sin to wear make up? NO ASBOLUTELY NOT. Again it’s the spirit that matters. Now I am not trying to even justify certain professions where make up is worn and the whole profession is a stumbling block to the human race.
So then again the question is why?
I think the Lord only will ask why? And trust me he already knows why.
You must be under a lot of pressure from your peer groups. My advice to you is You can never serve God effectively while being influenced by the world’s value system. You’re at a critical age now where you will have to make some very important choices. Rest assured that if you make the right choices now you will never regret when you grow older.
There is pressure at your age to appear in a certain way, this pressure is not from God. The Holy Spirit does not put this pressure, its like chains that come on a free person. So my dear sister your beauty does not lie in how you look but your spirit.
1 Peter 3:3-4 (New International Version)
3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.
Ask the Lord to make this real for you at this early age. May you find security ON THE ROCK!
A STRONG WOMAN DOES NOT FIND HER IDENTITY FROM WHAT SHE LOOKS LIKE BUT FROM WHOM SHE IS IN CHRIST!
Even in Christian circles there are very few strong women like these.
Other people wear makeup. These folks do not posses light. There is a big danger in following the patterns of unbelievers. The danger is latter on in life you will be unable to discern the will of God for you concerning other matters.
Romans 12:2
2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
I hope I have not confused the living day lights out of you.

rbetty, Did we overwhelm you? (I admit, we can get quite chatty around here and in our passion to express ourselves, even forget who we are talking to.) It would be great to hear from you, and learn more about you! I'm convinced that you have something valuable to offer us - from the perspective of a youth!

Diane

Good word Diane. This was the first post of a 16 year old girl. Has anyone noticed she hasn't been back. Taking a little time to breath might be good.

We can certainly share our views with patience and longsuffering. Yet we need to hesitate before we go about saying that our opinion is God's opinion...when this is in and of itself just a personal opinion.

Does this include you? Have not seen any evidence that it does!

ginnyrose

Hi HeartSong...

What would the Lord have to do to convince you not to bite into that apple?

If you only rely upon what you know and what you see, you will eat the poison apple.

It is only in Him that one can be ABSOLUTELY sure that they will not bite into a poison apple. But we must lay aside our intellectualizing, justifying, and quantifying in order to hear His voice. We must humble ourselves and ask Him what He would have us to do. We must listen for His answer and be prepared to obey. We must quit trying to steer the boat onto our own shore for He is our only safe harbor. Only He knows the truth - because He alone is Truth.

I really feel that the "poison apple" analogy is a bad choice. It can be used to apply to any sort of sectarian belief. I have heard similar analogies from people who would espouse doctrinal "requirements of the faith" regarding issues like specific views on eschatology, Bible translations, rules on propriety in dress, music, oneness persuasions, the "prosperity" message, etc... My mom once attended a Bible study where the leader preached that women who shaved their legs were immoral because they were going against nature. Some of these are so "firm" in their beliefs that they are willing to point at the rest of us and call our views "lies." If we aren't careful, we will be like those who are willing to call anything we disagree with a "poison apple" or "unclean."

I think that we need to be clear with this young sister. This is not an "open/shut" case from God's Word. This is not a doctrine that is exceedingly clear from God's Word, nor one that salvation is based upon. We should not present our advice as if it is the very thoughts of God. We can certainly present our thoughts regarding the matter...but only if they are clearly defined as OUR thoughts regarding our endeavor to find Biblical truth. Too often, I think that the line between TRUTH and BELIEF becomes fuzzy in our presentation to others.

:-(

*EDIT*
Let me make this clear: I am not espousing makeup as a fine thing to do. I am simply saying that I don't know the ultimate answer to the question. My wife and I have prayed about it, and we don't feel that the Lord prohibits it if it is done in a natural, non-vain or non-selfseeking manner. Yet I hope that I am clear that this is our BELIEF and not something that we know for certainty from the Lord. I believe that there is grace offered from God from this, because we sought an answer with a clear conscience, and we feel the liberty as such with a clear conscience.

Chris,

Define “the Word.”

You do not realize it, but you are asking me to deny my Lord. He has made known to me that which He would have me to do in this matter. For me to say otherwise would be to forsake Him - for He is the Word. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1). There are other matters in which I am not clear, but that is because I am letting my selfish inclinations get in the way of the hearing of His truth.

Psalm 40:8
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Romans 2:14-16
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Hi HeartSong...

You do not realize it, but you are asking me to deny my Lord. He has made known to me that which He would have me to do in this matter. For me to say otherwise would be to forsake Him - for He is the Word. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1). There are other matters in which I am not clear, but that is because I am letting my selfish inclinations get in the way of the hearing of His truth.

I fully appreciate the verses that you shared...but they do not bring any evidence that a person can share their belief (one that is not entirely spelled out by the Word) as if it were an absolute. Poison apple? What would this website (and our churches) be like if each person called the practices of others "poison apples" simply because we do not think that such things are proper? There are many, many things (practices, doctrines, preferences, etc...) that I do not agree with. However, I think that we should be able to distinguish in our words just what we believe to be true from what is UNDENIABLE truth found in the Word of God. This issue (makeup) just isn't directly spelled out in the Word of God (no matter how much a person would like to believe that it is). Yes, the Word speaks of modesty...and dress -- but not specifically about makeup. There are many different opinions of what the Lord might think of such things...and even after much prayer, we should not suppose that we hold a monopoly on the thoughts of God. Why? We are still limited to our flawed humanity and the mistakes that we are prone to.

I certainly think that we should be able to share what we THINK about this matter...and why. But I feel that we should be very careful about the way we present our views. I fear that we may be putting words into God's mouth...when this might not be the wisest thing to do (when matters are not entirely clear from the Word).

Sister, I mean nothing personal by this (and I think you know that). I just feel that this website would be a terrible place if we all shared our particular views as if they were the only ones that count -- because there are quite a few people from different beliefs with a plethora of views on some matters. It would be difficult to share if everyone else "knows" that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Here are three stories in the Bible that talk of women with painted faces.

2 Kings 9

Jeremiah 4

Ezekiel 23

And Ginny, not to speak in Chris' stead but I believe this is the root of his likewise indignation.

Mike, have you read Chris' reaction to the 'head covering' article that Greg posted recently? I sense there he is again working hard to discredit what the Word teaches. He does it consistently on issues that teach us practical things, esp. as they pertain to females and how they should 'appear'.

ginnyrose

MJones wrote:
Good word Diane. This was the first post of a 16 year old girl. Has anyone noticed she hasn't been back. Taking a little time to breath might be good.

Brutal! If I came here as a new Christian and got overloaded like this, I would probably become very discouraged and confused and wonder where is the love and meekness? Is it possible for the moderators to help out on posts like these without entering the war? People are precious! :-?

If I came here as a new Christian and got overloaded like this …

Since rbetty hasn’t returned, this thread has become more about ourselves, and that is not a bad thing. We can learn something important through reflection; for example: We need to be quicker to listen than to speak, even in cyberspace. Using spiritual language and feeling very righteous doesn't mean that we can't cause damage.

Perhaps this is a learning opportunity sent to us by the Spirit.

Diane

Sister Ginny...

Mike, have you read Chris' reaction to the 'head covering' article that Greg posted recently? I sense there he is again working hard to discredit what the Word teaches. He does it consistently on issues that teach us practical things, esp. as they pertain to females and how they should 'appear'.

I don't believe that the "head covering" interpretation that you hold is an indisputable requirement in the Word of God. But this is MY BELIEF (through much prayer and study) just as much as you have YOUR belief. I think that I made this clear in my posts in regard to the head coverings. I know that I am not alone, because there are plenty of believers on this website who don't share your view of head coverings. Does this mean that we are right and you are wrong (or vice versa)? Of course not! Yet I don't believe that we should enslave someone to our particular doctrinal views -- especially when, in a clear conscience, we don't believe that they are actually taught as such in the Word!

Now this is not to say that there are issues that are clear in the Word. There are things that are undeniable...and we should teach them as such. Many of these things are spelled out plainly throughout the Word. Yet...makeup? That is a stretch! There isn't a verse in the New Testament that says, "[i]Thou shalt not wear color on thy face[/i]!" We can try to gather supporting scriptural devices and reach a conclusion...but that is just what it is...a conclusion. Yet there are sects that gather amongst themselves those who are willing to submit to a particular set of doctrinal acceptances regarding a matter (head coverings, restrictions on makeup, restrictions on pants, etc...). Many of these churches would refuse to accept a godly and sincere woman who does not adhere to a particular set of "requirements" (since she must not be a "godly" woman if she doesn't agree or practice as much). Do you see where this leads? It is this type of dogma that seperates believers...rather than drawing them closer in the unity of the faith!

Sister, I apologize if you think that I am "discrediting" what the Word teaches. This is not true...and I am sorry that you feel this way. I am perplexed that you become frustrated by the freedom that I feel regarding certain issues -- and I wouldn't want to cause you to stumble by my views. Yet this should not be a stumbling block to you. It is a simple matter of belief regarding what the Word says in these matters. Are you saying that I am entirely wrong...and my prayerful understanding of this matter has no merit?

It is one thing to say that some could be an offense for wearing makeup (or praying without a man-made fabric head covering, etc...). It is another thing to be an offense toward those who actually feel that it might be acceptable in the sight of God. All that I am saying here...and many times in many threads for quite a while...is that we need to distinguish between what is our prayerful belief...and what is an undeniable absolute from the Word of God. There is a difference.

Hi roadsign...

I don’t know tbetty's situation, or what she means by “makeup”, or what may have precipitated this question. Maybe she is no 15 yo, but someone just testing us out.

Since rbetty hasn’t returned, this thread has become more about ourselves, and that is not a bad thing.

I agree with you. I often wonder how many people stray into our little forums...and what kind of example we set. We sometimes debate over doctrines...and sometimes, those debates turn into arguments with behavior unbecoming of believers. I will be the first to confess to this (to my shame). I suppose that this is precisely why I was commenting in the first place. Often, we speak with a "this is what God showed/revealed to/told" me in our words. I have to question this...no matter who it is that writes or speaks it (including myself).

There is a danger in this, I believe. Is it possible that we might be putting words into God's mouth with such absolutes? How does that make us any different than the false prophets who claimed to speak the very thoughts and words of God? We must be careful about such things. I must try to be "slow to speak" -- especially when I am speaking for God. This is just as true with my preferences as it is with my beliefs that I arrived to from things that aren't immediately and perfectly clear. We must "test everything" and "hold on to that which is right" (I Thessalonians 5:21). If we aren't sure (or even if we assume that we are sure), we must strive to have a clear conscience.

The Word is undoubtedly true down to the last dot and tittle. Yet there are many things in life that aren't precisely written about in the Word (at least, upon the surface). The Word of God doesn't mention what type of socks I should wear (or even if I should wear them at all). Thus, I attempt to ascertain the truth while striving to live with a clear conscience before God. Yet differences of opinion or persuasion regarding doctrine will undoubtedly remain...no matter how sincere we all are.

This is the source of most debates amongst believers. I just think that many of these sort of debates could be stiffled if we would just learn to add a disclaimer to our words while still seeing sincere believers for what they are -- children of God.

Maybe we should not assume that she has not been back to the forums. ccchhhrrriiisss said

Actually, she sent me a PM.

rbetty, if you're still out there reading, please forgive us. This is not how all Christians act and respond.

May the Lord continue to lead you.

In His love, Chanin

[i]Moderator: A good point to leave off here. This thread will be locked[/i]