Joel Osteen on Glenn Beck last night...

Saw Joel Osteen on Glenn Beck's show last night. The context of the conversation was how people in this world can get along, even if they disagree. Osteen was waxing eloquently about how we should always treat people with a spirit of love even if we disagree on everything... and then Osteen said something to the effect that he has been all over the world. He said he's been to India where he's met many "great and wonderful Hindu people who love God with all their hearts."

I'm sorry... but this needs to be said: [b]Joel Osteen is a theological dork.[/b]

Krispy

Following is a further analysis of Joel Osteen, comparing his doctrine with true Christian Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

Go to www.youtube.com and search for:

[b]Joel Osteen versus Paul Washer[/b]

You will see parts 1, 2, & 3 that document the heresy of Joel Osteen, and others like him.

Sincerely,

Walter

Thanx Waltern... seen it and heard it all before both on YouTube (which we're not supposed to link to on this forum), and in writing. It's been discussed here many times.

No secret that he is a flake. It's just that people rush to his defense even on this forum saying "it was just a gaff... he didnt mean that!" YET... here he is again... with the same gaff... again.

You would think that if he were so "gaff-prone" that speaking in front of thousands of people in Houston several times a week he would get better at public speaking.

I guess not.

Krispy

No church will confront him.... instead, they book him for their conferences and peddle his books.

Krispy

Then the tragedy of it struck my heart...this 'theological dork-ness' is the reason for the 'darkness' in this nation. Men like this go unchecked, satisfied in their large, unbelieveably large, congregations leading many astray.

Exactly... it took him less than 3 seconds to make that statement, but it was on a TV show that is broadcasted around the world on FoxNews. How many people saw that around the world? When he says what he said... he is basically condemning souls to hell because they see him saying "you're ok in your deception... you're ok in your sin... God loves you! All you have to do is love the god you've created in your mind..."

I cant get past his slick car salesman exterior anyway, but he makes a used car salesman look trustworthy!

(no offense to any used car salesmen reading this!)

Krispy

He's been to India where he has met"many great and wonderful people who loved God with all of their hearts.".

So have mother Teresa, and Mahatma Gandhi, but that doesn't mean the people they met were ever saved; Sad to say, but probably not. For that , you would have to repent, and receive the gospel, and be born again, which , I'm also sorry to say, Joel is quite ignorant of.

Joel Olsteen is more than a theological dork. He is a lost one who is leading the innocents his way....down.

Before you get mad, try to understand this one thing. I was the same way at one time. But in this test I went through, God burned all that out of me. I am not as prone to pick at faults as I used to be. We are all at fault until God cleanses us. Nothing cleanses like fire.

well spoke brother.....yes, well spoke.

here's what Peter Celcicky, a prime vessel of Christ wrote in c.1440

Our faith obliges us to bind wounds, not to make blood run…

I've been studying about him all day long, here's a link to a 166 page pdf wrapped book about this obscure, yet annointed man:

[url=http://www.nonresistance.org/docs_pdf/Net_of_Faith.pdf]Net of Faith[/url]

I hope you find it edifying, I have.

neil

oh yeh, here's the wikipedia condensed version on Peter Checicky:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Chel%C4%8Dick%C3%BD]Peter Checicky[/url]

God's Word does not return void. If a false teacher quotes John 3:16... John 3:16 is still John 3:16.

The problem is when truth gets mixed with error. No one in their right mind would drink poison. But if someone mixed poison into Kool-Aid and served it to you without warning you... you would drink of it, and be poisoned.

Thats the trouble with people like Osteen.

Krispy

As Christians, we are responsible for undersanding false doctrine, and exposing it for what it is by promoting God's true Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

2 Timothy tells us to:
15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.study, and show ourselves approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

If I was a non-believer, on my death bed, and was listening to Joel Osteen, would I ever hear the Gospel from him? The answer is no. I could be in full agreement with everything he had to say, but never hear the requirement that I must repent of my sin, and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord & Savior, and believe that God raised Him from the dead.

In other words, without my repentance and belief in Him and His Works, I would never be saved, and when I took my last breath, after Osteen's message ended, I would be on my way hell.

Sincerley,

Walter

Natan4Jesus wrote:

Before you get mad, try to understand this one thing. I was the same way at one time. But in this test I went through, God burned all that out of me. I am not as prone to pick at faults as I used to be. We are all at fault until God cleanses us. Nothing cleanses like fire.

well spoke brother.....yes, well spoke.

here's what Peter Celcicky, a prime vessel of Christ wrote in c.1440

Our faith obliges us to bind wounds, not to make blood run…

I've been studying about him all day long, here's a link to a 166 page pdf wrapped book about this obscure, yet annointed man:

[url=http://www.nonresistance.org/docs_pdf/Net_of_Faith.pdf]Net of Faith[/url]

I hope you find it edifying, I have.

neil

oh yeh, here's the wikipedia condensed version on Peter Checicky:
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petr_Chel%C4%8Dick%C3%BD]Peter Checicky[/url]

Quote.....

"I will take this one step further and say that satan will try to tear down what God is doing. He will use you, me or even Wilkerson to do that. If he can get into Peter, to where Jesus had to say to him, 'get thee behind me', none of us are beyond being used by him. "

And conversly, it is possible that Joel's messages could be used to tear down Wilkerson. If God is trying to wake up a nation to the ills of materialism and the soul rot of chasing after riches, then the soothing voices of "its all right, God wants you to have all of that,' would not really be helpful. In everything there is a balance, a tension, then of course, there is the word of God.............Frank

lovingly, meekly, I say, too much blood has been shed in the past by Christians:

As Christians, we are responsible for undersanding false doctrine, and exposing it for what it is by promoting God's true Doctrine, as found in the Bible.

that act of "exposing" false doctrine has been at the root of so much blood being shed in the past, by those who deem themselves as "wall-watchers", declaring this one or that one "hereticks", tying them to a stack and burning them.

You can't do that anyway now, you'd be charged with murder, but Joel Osteen....so what? Who really cares? for every "Joel Osteen", there's a thousand Spirit filled pastors namelessly laboring away for Jesus. You quoted 2 Timothy, Pauls last letter, his most poignant letter

Study to shew thyself approved unto God

study to show thyself to Who?....man?

no, to show thyself approved to God, you know that.

and as that verse goes onto to reiterate that very point:

a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.study, and show ourselves approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.

Why is that solid believers feel the need to "expose" these shaky quirky exhorters?

are you, or Krispy, or me BETTER than Joel Osteen?

Does God need our help in bringing to light that what must be brought to light?

For all the postings and htreads regarding Todd Bentley, do you think they "helped" God at all, exposing Todd?

or what about Ted Haggard? the former head of NAE, who many here might have lifted up as a prime vessel of Christ, for his vociferious stance on homosexual marriage, yet Who was it Who exposed Ted Haggard as a homosexual whore-mongering meth addict?

It was God, not you or me or Steve. God did it.

NONE of us is "better" than Joel Osteen, and the day we start to think that we are, watch out, coz "religious pride" starts to ooze through these threads, and God doesn't approve of that.

I don't wish for any contention, or argument, brothers, believe me. I, personally have so much to contend for in my own walk with Jesus, I dont give nary a thought to the Osteen's, the bentleys, or the Hinns of this world, Jesus will handle them.

in His love, neil

Roar... what Osteen said has nothing to do with the Calvin/Arminian debate. What Osteen promotes in reality is Universalism.

As for the other comments concerning "exposing/blood letting"... or whatever... stop being a spiritual wimp (:-)). The fact is that Osteen is a tremendously influencial leader world-wide. Whenever something false comes out of his mouth it potentially reaches and influences MILLIONS of souls.

I'm convinced my realm of influence is considerably smaller... if I even have a realm of influence!

Krispy

To----Natan4Jesus

From Walter

Natan, how did the Apostles in the early Church respond to false Gospel being preached?

There is another gospel... another Christ.... another spirit. In the future we see that the one called Antichrist will wield power so convincing the Saints might fall for it. And we know from 1 John 4:3 that the spirit of the Antichrist is already at work.

So what should we ministers of the Lord's work do about it? What are we the 'body of Christ' supposed to do in the wake of this promised apostasy?[b] Are we supposed to ignore it, and preach truth along side of error and hope our voice is LOUDER than the voice of the adversary?

Contrary to what many modern Christians believe the answer to this question is a definite NO![/b]

[b]This Post Modern era that we live in would have us believe that truth is only but a social convention. That the truth of is merely what we ourselves, or a group of us believe to be true. We live in a time of conformity. We believe that extremism of any form is an absolute sin to society, even if it an extreme belief in things that are actually true. As truth is defined as whatever our social constructs deem it to be at the time, we are left in a soup of muddied waters with no hope of clarity. We believe in live and let live, and that in merely suggest our beliefs to another we have violated that person's right to their own version of truth. There are no absolutes. Truth, I mean good, honest and God Given absolute truth is dead in the minds of the philosophers. This same mindset is just as prevalent in the churches today as it is in the rest of society.

There are many individuals and Ministries out there that believe that we are not to address what we feel to be false doctrine and unsound biblical teachings. They cry out that we are not judge others - That we are not to name names - That we are to simply pray for them and leave them be. They claim that if we do speak out we are tearing down the body of Christ. They vehemently are against those that would expose false doctrine. In a "why can't we all get along?" mentality they forsake the safeguarding of the truth.[/b]

[b][color=990000]Why should 'God Fearing' Christians NAME NAMES WHEN DEALING WITH THOSE IN PUBLIC MINISTRY?

BECAUSE OF PRECEDENCE. [/color][/b]

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

[b]1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love. [/b]

[B][COLOR=990000]So what about Matthew 7:1?

Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that ye be not judged."

I believe we have been misled into a wrong understanding of this verse and therefore failing to do our duty for the body of Christ.

Read in context we can see that Matt 7:2-5 clarifies that v. 1 is referring to hypocritical judgment. A brother who has a beam in his own eye should not be judging the brother who may have a mote in his eye. The passage is reading, you cannot judge another for his sin if you are guilty of the same sin. And that we shouldn't judge others unless we are prepared to be held to the same set of standards.

Those who cling to "Judge not, that ye be not judged" to condemn those who expose error should read the entire chapter. Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing... " (v. 15).
How can we know false prophets unless we judge them by what is written in the Word of God? If we know of false teachings, and those who teach them, how can we fail to warn the sheep of these "ravening wolves?" The Bible contains many passages that give us proof that these false prophets should be identified and exposed.

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Righteous judgment is based upon the solid word of God for our foundation. We can judge others based upon the Word of God. Using the Word as our guide, we judge others.

LOOK HOW PAUL JUDGED IN 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-13

1Co 5:1 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-something that even pagans don't do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother.

1Co 5:2 You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship.
1Co 5:3 Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man
1Co 5:4 in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus.
1Co 5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns. 1Co 5:6 Your boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough?1Co 5:7 Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.
1Co 5:8 So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth.
1Co 5:9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin.1Co 5:10 But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 1Co 5:11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such eople.1Co 5:12 It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning.1Co 5:13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."

A PERSON WHO IS ABLE TO DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE MAJOR MARKS OF SPIRITUAL MATURITY. LOOK AT HEBREWS 5:14

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

THE VERY WORD "DISCERN" MEANS TO JUDGE.

διάκρισις
diakrisis
dee-ak'-ree-sis
judicial estimation: - discern (-ing), disputation

If we are to be fully equipped with discernment as this passage says, should we not then point out issues contrary to what scriptures teach?

The answer is an invariable YES.

SO, IS IT RIGHT FOR US TO EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS?

If we sit idly by we are in essence encouraging false doctrine to be spread. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.
Remember John the Baptist? He called the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of Vipers". Today would we dare tell him to "your too harsh, be kind to our brethren and don't judge"??

We must always remember that the scripture admonishes us if we do not expose error in the flock. What are we to do when we know of 'false' teachers?

WE ARE TO TRY THEM.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" - I John 4: 1

ALL DOCTRINE AND TEACHERS ARE TO BE TRIED ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Every sermon, every message, pastor, preacher, so called prophet or any methodology it to be judged through the looking glass of God's Word. On that note, I hope that right now your bibles are open, and you're verifying this talk with scripture.

Have a look at what Christ says to the Church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:2. Christ commends them on what?

"I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

WE ARE TO THEREFORE DO THE SAME.

Never is it to be acceptable to us to 'tolerate' false teachers within our midst.

WE ARE TO MARK THEM AND AVOID THEM.

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. How can we mark them? We need a standard in which to compare them to. In other words we require discernment and judgment in light of God's Word. These are not my words. I am merely quoting scripture. We cannot mark and avoid, unless their words and deeds are judged according to the Word of God.

WE ARE TO REBUKE THEM!

Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Look at the surrounding passages of Titus 1:10-16. To whom was Paul referring when he wrote this to Titus?

Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision:Tit 1:11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.Tit 1:12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.Tit 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

For money's sake - unruly, vain talkers and deceivers were fooling whole houses, and leading them astray. Teaching them things that they should not teach. Sounds familiar doesn't it? Just watch a couple of hours of the so-called Christian broadcasting and you'll bear witness to on the television stations today.

Many high profile preachers and evangelists are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? I say NOT! Sound doctrine is supposed to be too precious to us.

Tit 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

WE ARE TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

This one is very important and one of the most often overlooked commands on this subject.

Reprove means to show disapproval, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey Ephesians 5:11 unless we try them by the Word of God?

You may be wondering, "Well that verse says 'works of darkness'; certainly a fellow Christian who is only slightly off doctrine is not involved in works of darkness?"

John said this:

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...

1Jn 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

False religion and false doctrines are brambles that grow across the path of truth. They are designed to ensnare and bind people to the author of this confusion - the prince of darkness. If Satan can twist the true gospel to something of his own making, then he has pulled the spirital wool over the eyes of those who follow. He then in-turn renders that person inadequate for duty as a disciple of Jesus Christ. I think we can all agree that the source of all false doctrine is the prince of darkness.

WE ARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THEM.

If we have rebuked them. If we have shown them the error of their ways through scripture, and they still refuse to turn away from their sinful practice, we are to withdraw from them.

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
2Th 3:15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

WE ARE TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM.

2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Concerning the last days, Paul says that some will have "a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. from such turn away." How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them?

WE ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THEM INTO OUR HOUSE.

2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.

This should be an easy one right? But what about Radio, TV, music, etc? Once we have marked someone as a false teacher we are to NOT receive them into our house.

WE ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL.

In the beginning I mentioned that Paul warned about those who preached "another Jesus ... another spirit ... or another gospel" - 2 Cor. 11:4. How can we identify them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul goes on to call such preachers, false apostles who transform themselves into apostles of Christ. He also hints at who their master is and refers to Satan himself as an 'Angel of Light'.

PAUL REITERATES SOME OF THIS IN GALATIANS:

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

'Let him be accursed'. Let those words echo in your head for a minute or two. Now think of how many 'perversions' of the gospel there are today.

Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. The hyper charismatic, the Roman Catholic Church, many once evangelical and Christian fundamentalists are preaching a perverted gospel. Albeit, perhaps unknowingly, but they are doing it just the same.

Yet according to many in the church today, we are supposed to cooperate with them in evangelism and Christian work and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel. Yet I must ask you that if we fail to expose these falsities and errors, have we not betrayed the very Gospel we believe we're furthering?

IS IT RIGHT TO NAME NAMES?

Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to name the teachers who proclaim false teachings. Again I believe that scripture tells us that they are wrong. Mark these passages in your own bibles and see.

Paul named and rebuked Peter publicly. - See Galatians 2:11-14
Paul named Demas for loving the world. - See 2 Timothy 4:10
Paul named Hymenaeus and Alexander. - See 1 Timothy 1:18-20
Paul named Hymenaeus and Philetus. - See 2 Timothy 2:15-18
Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. - See 2 Timothy 4:14-15
John named Diotrephes. - See 3 john 9-10
Moses called the name of Balaam. - See Num. 22-25 (Peter also exposed "the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness " in 2 Peter 2:15)

There are more examples, but this last one is of particular interest. You see Balaam was a prophet that was in the business of the Lord's work for money. Now think of some of the Televangelists today; they beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them their hard earned money. Kenneth Copeland for instance bought a $20 million personal jet so he could spread the gospel and do the work of the Lord more effectively. In 1997, Benny Hinn told CNN that he earns between $500,000 and $1 million a year. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV network satellites, and amusement parks all in the name of Christ. The early church was something that looked much different however.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

Now doesn't that stand in stark contrast to how the popular ministries and churches are run today?

My friends. It is certainly proper and our duty to expose error and to name those who are in error. It is right and our duty to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" as commanded of us in Jude 3. Faithful messengers will indeed warn the sheep of these heretics, and identify them by name. It is not enough to broadly hint of their identity, for the young lambs will not understand and will be destroyed by the wolves.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

In this time of End Times apostasy, now more than ever before it's time to expose, warn, and prepare the flock for the onslaught of false teachers, the spirit of the antichrist that's already in the world. You will note that this very thing is in our ministries mission statement, and always has been. "…to equip and strengthen believers with sound apologetics and warnings against the false teachings in the world..." Our very motto is 'Safeguarding the Truth' as we pledge to do all we can to that effect.[/color][/b]

The above information was found at Exposing False Gospel at:

[url=This information was found at Bereanwatchman.com and represents my views]http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/exposing-false-doctrine.html[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

Natan4Jesus wrote:

lovingly, meekly, I say, too much blood has been shed in the past by Christians:

Deleted

in His love, neil

you closed off your post with

Sincerely,
Walter

I'm sure you're "sincere", but do you sincerely love me?

in the mean time, allow me the time to give your long post the read, and deliberation it deserves, but hear me clearly, I aint going to be getting into any dust-up, or contentious argument with anybody, over this issue. Just so you know.

In Jesus' love, neil

Beloved,
let me ask you ask you a question, and please don't take the question wrong, I dont mean offense? You wrote the whole thing?, (excepting of course, the portions of Scripture)

you asked:

So what should we ministers of the Lord's work do about it?

Walter, I'm not a "minister", not a pastor, just a saved sinner following Jesus, lowest of the low, scum of the earth. I love to encourage others, in the mold of Barnabas, but the way I read it, its the LORD'S WORK, meaning HE does it, not me. Have mercy, I get my hands on it, and I'll make a mess of it, its kind of what Pastor Reidhead said in his famous sermon, and I paraphrase, I'll hand Jesus the car keys, climb into the trunk, He'll close the trunk, and Jesus will do the driving.

That was in response to the carsticker that say "Jesus is my co-pilot" (you're sposed to laugh now, but you're probably not)

Zinzendorff came up with something that I kind of like: "In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty, and above all, love". Its not Scripture, but I think its a good roadmap in dealing with the other inmates trapped here on Earth.

you also asked me:

What are we the 'body of Christ' supposed to do in the wake of this promised apostasy?

Die. Die to the world, die to self, die to the flesh, die.

you also asked:

Are we supposed to ignore it

yep. the Two Royal Commandments Jesus gave us were, the Schma, which is to love God, with all your heart mind body soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

then you asked:

and preach truth along side of error and hope our voice is LOUDER than the voice of the adversary?

Brother, I WILL preach the Gospel and IF neccesary, I MIGHT use words. I'll let others do the shouting and hollering. I know that might not be what a Berean watchman wants to hear, but there it is.

you stated:

We live in a time of conformity. We believe that extremism of any form is an absolute sin to society, even if it an extreme belief in things that are actually true.

sure enough, and I realize you dont KNOW me, but if you did, you'd sure know that the last thing I am is a "conformist", the things of this world matter very very little to me, and that I believe "extremism" can cut both ways, it can walk itself out in a man strapping 70 pounds of c-4 to his waist, and blowing himself up in a market square crowded with women and children, done in the "name of god", or it can be extreme love walked out in the face of absolute scorn and hatred arrayed against it. I like the latter..

Oh Walter!!...I went to the link, which doesnt work, so I went to berean watch men, went to the JR Hall article and you pasted the whole thing, and here I sit, stupidly answering your post, typing, pouring my heart into it, and it was just a paste job. If I want to talk to JR Hall, why dont I write him an email?

I was just trying to reach out and give you the respect and love by answering what you unspooled to me....but it wasnt you that wrote it.

let me wind this up, by just saying, If you and Steve, and any others want to take Joel Osteen to the Holy Ghost woodshed, please do so, do as the Lord leads.

In Jesus' love, neil

oh, by the way, here's the link to the article you pasted:

[url=http://www.bereanwatchmen.com/j.r.hall/exposing-false-doctrine.html]"Exposing False Doctrine" [/url]

The prayer meeting has always been my favorite meeting of the Church....a prayer meeting where the start time is posted, but the ending time is left blank, coz the Holy Spirit knows when the meeting ends, and we all ask Jesus to pastor the meeting.

So I agree with you....prayer is the better path, and when account is taken of me, God will see the seed I've sown and by His Grace, and His Indwelling Spirit IN me, it will be love mercy charity hope and Faith.

the other stuff I've sown? You make amends on that, and put it under the Blood of Christ.

thats my dime.

In Jesus' love, neil

Neil??? Is that you, bro??

Krispy

Neil??? Is that you, bro??

Yes!!!...and there's a lot I want to tell you off the board, stuff you would like.

How is it on the mountain? I'm just forgeting this Osteen stuff in this response...what's is important, did football go okay this year? How are your babies? etc, wife?

there's a lot I want to tell ya, if I got you mad before, forgive me please, I'm a Yankee, what can I say? (lol) but I'll PM after I read this and finish up morning devotional readings.

your brother, neil

Dear MrBillPro:

You have stated:
"You know it simply boils down to this, the Bible says in Galatians 6:7 "you will reap what you sow" I have never personally read any clauses or exceptions either before or after this scripture, that says if we expose anyone including Pastors that we will not reap the same exposure one day.

Look we have only two choices here expose or Pray, if you feel that God has placed the responsibility on you to expose Pastors by all means go for it, but unless the word of God lies you will also reap the same some day, exposed for some of your flaws."
Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[b]My response would be that I hope and pray that others would expose me for my flaws by the Anvil, by [color=990000]GOD'S VERY WORDS[/color] if and when I stray from THEM. Today, many Christians have no interest in what the Bible teaches, in Bible Doctrine, and that is THE reason why we have such apostacy today[/b]

"What is the gospel?"

As Paul makes clear, there is actually only one gospel:
1 Corinthians 15:1-8,11 [1] Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. [2] By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. [3] For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, [4] that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, [5] and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. [6] After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. [7] Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, [8] and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. [11] Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

The purpose of confronting those that call themselves Christian but do not preach the true Gospel is twofold:

1.\tTo draw them back to Christ
2.\tTo warn others of their deception.

The Bible teaches us in how we are to deal with those that teach error:

WE ARE TO EXPOSE THEM BY NAME
(The same as Paul & John did)

WE ARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THEM.

WE ARE TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM.

WE ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THEM INTO OUR HOUSE.

WE ARE NOT TO BREAK BREAD WITH THEM.

WE ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL AND WARN OTHERS OF THEIR ERROR.

The purpose of dealing this way with those that preach a false Gospel is to confront them of their error by the very Word of God, the ANVIL, and to draw them back to the truth.

We have all been called to “Preach” the Gospel- when we “go out” to work each day, or wherever we go---when we are at the market and meet others that God puts in our path, we are commanded to share the Good News, the Gospel of Jesus Christ who came to this earth to die for our sin. We are all commanded to be “Preachers” of the Gospel.

Matthew 19:19-20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Sincerely,

Walter

MrBillPro wrote:
You know it simply boils down to this, the Bible says in Galatians 6:7 "you will reap what you sow" I have never personally read any clauses or exceptions either before or after this scripture, that says if we expose anyone including Pastors that we will not reap the same exposure one day.

Look we have only two choices here expose or Pray, if you feel that God has placed the responsibility on you to expose Pastors by all means go for it, but unless the word of God lies you will also reap the same some day, exposed for some of your flaws.

I think Praying and exposing would be an oxymoron in my opinion, I don't think in good faith we can honestly and sincerely do both with a pure heart, I think some of our reasons come from our flesh, I personally choose to Pray for them so I will reap the same "Prayer" "unless" again the word lies, so folks what is more powerful, exposing the Pastors or praying for them? it's pretty simple, this is really cut and dry it's our choice.

Yes, I know I will have folks say well Mr. Bill, the word says it is our responsibility to expose, is it? it may be, but you better make real sure, before you do, you have made that choice through your spirit and Prayed and Prayed over and over again and your decision has not come from your flesh, because the fallout you reap may not be very desirable.

You know I think God has a clue on who are the flawed Pastors, and I am sure if he were here posting on SI he would say "all of them are flawed" and I am also pretty sure, if some took the time to expose all of them here on SI, they might need to purchase more server space, just some of my personal thoughts.
May God Bless All Of Our Pastors.

Overall waltern, I thoroughly support your position, and cannot understand this liberal thought train that excuses a little bit of heresy here and there.

I posted a thread in April 2008..."Your best life now, your worst eternity forever: Joel Olsteen, the flower of TBN theology."...[general topics..] How in the world can a real Christian NOT be disturbed by this?

Mister Olsteen publicly confessed that he believed that there were many ways, and religions, that lead to God. This is what Jesus, Paul and Peter referred to as a WOLF. How can some so cavalierly state that "to each his own, just worry about yourself" attitude is a sound approach to deceivers?

I'm sorry, but this kind of thinking and inclusion is as bad as the wolves it lets run free. Joel Olsteen is a false brother preaching a false gospel that is destructive to many who believe it's veracity.....and Waltern...you've got it right! That is the Bible answer to these anti-Christs like Olsteen.[ in place of Christ ]

To MJones:

Since you have listened to Joel for quite a while, I would like to know how many times you have personally heard Joel Osteen preach about REPENTENCE? How many times has Joel Osteen preached about SIN? How may times has he even mentioned the word SIN?---NEVER, he refuses to even use the word sin (according to his interview with Larry King). How many times has he preached that Jesus Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS AND THAT HE IS THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, AND THAT NO MAN COMES UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY CHRIST JESUS (John 14:6)? How many times has he preached on the power and efficacy of THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST?

Joel Osteen preaches a “social gospel”, and also believes in Universalism. Another apostate Pastor that preaches and teaches this is Dr. Robert A. Schuler.

Jesus Christ had this to say about the way to heaven, the way to eternal life. Both paths are traveled by “Christians” on “the way”. Some Christians take the broad way and the wide gate, and end up in hell. Other Christians take the narrow way, and the straight gate that leads to eternal life, and there are few that find it. We are warned to beware of the false prophets of this world:

(Matthew 17:13-23)
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15[b]. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.,[/b]

“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” Acts 4:12

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6)

Joel refuses to tell the truth that Jesus Christ is the only way for men to be saved in his interviews with Larry King and others on National Television. He is the kind of man that Christ will spew out of His mouth, like He will to the lukewarm Church of Laodicea.

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

MJones wrote:
I take it by the title you gave your post, 'A LITTLE LEAVEN IS OK...you think?' that you were referring to my reply to Krispy. If you will read it closely, you will notice that I did not say a little leaven was okay. When Jesus referred to a little leaven, He was specifically referring to the Pharisees who did not believe He was from God. So anything they taught was flawed from the beginning.

DELETED
.

I love that parable, the mustard seed parable told about the Kingdom of God.

the mustard seed is a tiny seed, that makes a weed that grows big, and farmers try and try and try to get rid of it, and they can't. It just keeps spreading.

So we have guys like Joel Osteen and Todd Bentley, and this fellow that I saw the other day, John Crowder and that foolish bunch, with their childish "drunken" theo-tom foolery.

meanwhile the mustard seed keeps spreading! Think of all the anonymous Chinese house church pastors, laboring away, pressed, perplexed, prosecuted, little resource, but what GIANTS these men are!!! GOD ALMIGHTY knows their names.

It's Paul Phillipian exhortation, whatever is pure, what is noble.......think of such things.

thats why three days after I saw the rank blasphemy of Crowder, I'll never look at him again. Give me the pure I say!!!

To Natan4Jesus:

Since when are Christian’s required to forgive false prophets? I have already quoted the Bible that instructs CHRISTIANS on how to deal with FALSE PROPHETS and other Christians who are in grave Doctrinal error and therefore, on their way to hell. I am surely not the one who would have to forgive them for anything. They have not hurt or attacked me in any way. They have attacked the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as well as the His Word, the DOCTRINE found in the Bible.

[b]Natan, how did the Apostles in the early Church respond to false Gospel being preached?

I posted this previously. You obviously missed it, so I will do so here. If you respond to this, PLEASE RESPOND WITH SCRIPTURE THAT RELATES TO FALSE DOCTRINE AND FALSE TEACHERS, AND WHAT WE (CHRISTIANS) ARE INSTRUCTED TO DO WITH THEM.[/b]

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Why should 'God Fearing' Christians NAME NAMES WHEN DEALING WITH THOSE IN PUBLIC MINISTRY?

BECAUSE OF PRECEDENCE.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

LOOK HOW PAUL JUDGED IN 1 CORINTHIANS 5:1-13

1Co 5:1-13 I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-something that even pagans don't do. I am told that a man in your church is living in sin with his stepmother. You are so proud of yourselves, but you should be mourning in sorrow and shame. And you should remove this man from your fellowship. Even though I am not with you in person, I am with you in the Spirit. And as though I were there, I have already passed judgment on this man in the name of the Lord Jesus. You must call a meeting of the church. I will be present with you in spirit, and so will the power of our Lord Jesus. Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns. Your boasting about this is terrible. Don't you realize that this sin is like a little yeast that spreads through the whole batch of dough? Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. So let us celebrate the festival, not with the old bread of wickedness and evil, but with the new bread of sincerity and truth. When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. But I wasn't talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don't even eat with such people. It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, "You must remove the evil person from among you."

A PERSON WHO IS ABLE TO DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL, HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE MAJOR MARKS OF SPIRITUAL MATURITY. LOOK AT HEBREWS 5:14

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

THE VERY WORD "DISCERN" MEANS TO JUDGE.

SO, IS IT RIGHT FOR US TO EXPOSE FALSE TEACHERS?

If we sit idly by we are in essence encouraging false doctrine to be spread. Wolves in sheep's clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.

Remember John the Baptist? He called the Pharisees and Sadducees (the religious leaders of his day) "a generation of Vipers". Today would we dare tell him to "your too harsh, be kind to our brethren and don't judge"??

[b]We must always remember that the scripture admonishes us if we do not expose error in the flock. What are we to do when we know of 'false' teachers?[/b]

WE ARE TO TRY THEM.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world" - I John 4: 1

ALL DOCTRINE AND TEACHERS ARE TO BE TRIED ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Every sermon, every message, pastor, preacher, so called prophet or any methodology it to be judged through the looking glass of God's Word. On that note, I hope that right now your bibles are open, and you're verifying this talk with scripture.

Have a look at what Christ says to the Church of Ephesus in Revelation 2:2. Christ commends them on what?

"I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"

WE ARE TO THEREFORE DO THE SAME.

Never is it to be acceptable to us to 'tolerate' false teachers within our midst.

WE ARE TO MARK THEM AND AVOID THEM.

Rom 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. How can we mark them? We need a standard in which to compare them to. In other words we require discernment and judgment in light of God's Word. These are not my words. I am merely quoting scripture. We cannot mark and avoid, unless their words and deeds are judged according to the Word of God.

WE ARE TO REBUKE THEM!

Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Look up for yourself the passages of Titus 1:10-16--- To whom was Paul referring when he wrote this to Titus?

“For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.”

For money's sake - unruly, vain talkers and deceivers were fooling whole houses, and leading them astray. Teaching them things that they should not teach. Does that sound familiar to you?

[b]Joel Osteen and other preachers and evangelists are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT![/b] Sound doctrine tells us the way to salvation, and is supposed to be too precious to us.

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

[b]WE ARE TO HAVE NO FELLOWSHIP WITH THEM.[/b]

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

This one is very important and one of the most often overlooked commands on this subject.

Reprove means to show disapproval, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey Ephesians 5:11 unless we try them by the Word of God?

You may be wondering, "Well that verse says 'works of darkness'; certainly a fellow Christian who is only slightly off doctrine is not involved in works of darkness?"

John said this:

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...

1John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.

False religion and false doctrines are brambles that grow across the path of truth. They are designed to ensnare and bind people to the author of this confusion - the prince of darkness. If Satan can twist the true gospel to something of his own making, then he has pulled the spirital wool over the eyes of those who follow. He then in-turn renders that person inadequate for duty as a disciple of Jesus Christ. I think we can all agree that the source of all false doctrine is the prince of darkness.

[b]WE ARE TO WITHDRAW FROM THEM.[/b]

If we have rebuked them. If we have shown them the error of their ways through scripture, and they still refuse to turn away from their sinful practice, we are to withdraw from them.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

2 Thessalonians 3:14-15 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

[b]ARE TO TURN AWAY FROM THEM.[/b]

2 Timothy 3:5-7 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Concerning the last days, Paul says that some will have "a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof. from such turn away." How can we turn away from them if we do not identify them?

[b]ARE NOT TO RECEIVE THEM INTO OUR HOUSE.[/b]
2 John 19-11
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed:
For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.

[b]This should be an easy one right? But what about Radio, TV, music, etc? Once we have marked someone as a false teacher we are to NOT receive them into our house.[/b]

[b]WE ARE TO LOOK OUT FOR THOSE WHO PREACH ANOTHER GOSPEL.[/b]

(2 Cor. 11:4) How can we identify them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul goes on to call such preachers, false apostles who transform themselves into apostles of Christ. He also hints at who their master is and refers to Satan himself as an 'Angel of Light'.

[b]PAUL REITERATES SOME OF THIS IN GALATIANS:[/b]

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. The hyper charismatic, the Roman Catholic Church, many once evangelical and Christian fundamentalists are preaching a perverted gospel. Albeit, perhaps unknowingly, but they are doing it just the same.

[b][color=990000]Yet according to you Natan, and others like you on this thread, we are supposed to cooperate with these PERVERTERS OF THE GOSPEL and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel--A FALSE GOSPEL. If we (you and I) fail to expose these falsities and errors, we have BETRAYED the very Gospel we believe we're furthering! What about the thousands upon thousands of our brothers and sisters who are sitting in these apostate Churches, and on their way to hell because they are being taught lies? Are we to ignore them, so that we can "all get along"?[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

Natan4Jesus wrote:
I love that parable, the mustard seed parable told about the Kingdom of God.

the mustard seed is a tiny seed, that makes a weed that grows big, and farmers try and try and try to get rid of it, and they can't. It just keeps spreading.

So we have guys like Joel Osteen and Todd Bentley, and this fellow that I saw the other day, John Crowder and that foolish bunch, with their childish "drunken" theo-tom foolery.

meanwhile the mustard seed keeps spreading! Think of all the anonymous Chinese house church pastors, laboring away, pressed, perplexed, prosecuted, little resource, but what GIANTS these men are!!! GOD ALMIGHTY knows their names.

It's Paul Phillipian exhortation, whatever is pure, what is noble.......think of such things.

thats why three days after I saw the rank blasphemy of Crowder, I'll never look at him again. Give me the pure I say!!!

Since when are Christian’s required to forgive false prophets?

The only thing scripture has commanded the Christian to do concerning false teachers is to "mark and avoid".

Krispy

[b]This is addressed to MrBillPro and MJones (One and the same person?):[/b]

This response has nothing to do with “Calvanism” or any other “ism” and everything to do with God's Spirit Breathed Word.

God’s Word is clear in how the body of Christ is to deal with the likes of Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, and other false Prophets and Teachers. I have quoted from the Anvil, The Bible of how we are to deal with them. [b]Each of us has a choice in how we respond to His Word, in how we respond to the commands He has given us. Are we obedient?

At the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ, the Bema Seat, all those that make it to this judgment of believers [/b]will see all the things that they have done in their life pass before their eyes, as they are judged by Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 3:9.23 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 10. According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13. Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 16. Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17. If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18. Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21. Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22. Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; 23. And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Sincerely,

Walter

:-)

MrBillPro wrote:

MJones wrote:
What bothers me in this, is we have people who write volumes slamming the guy because they heard him in an interview one time. We need to be better about really knowing something before we speak out for it or against it. Then we have those who join the bandwagon because they here people, who have only heard an interview, do all this bashing.

This has been my message here forever,but "some" so called Christians" are like the world, a person could walk a straight and narrow path their entire lives, but let them make "ONE" mistake and the world will pick up on this and harbor it until death and forget any good that person may have done, just remember them for the bad, it's sad! "some" Christians need to spend more time in front of the mirror.

Oh boy... everyone hold one! The train is going off the tracks!

Krispy

To MrBillPro & MJones:

In Communist Russia, just before Perestroika came about, a group of Christians were meeting secretly in a home. There was a knock on the door, and when it was opened the KGB Rushed into the room, with their guns drawn and ready. They announced that anyone who really did not believe in Jesus Christ could leave, because they were going to kill everyone who was a believer. Over ½ of the Church cleared out, and ran for dear life. Once they were gone, the leader closed the door and locked it and said---“Now that the non-believers have left, let’s Worship and Praise God and His Son, Jesus Christ”. All of these KGB men had come to belief in Jesus Christ, and knew that there were counterfeit Christians in the midst of the underground Christian Church. They wanted to worship in safety, after the counterfeits had been cleared out.

How did Peter & John and the other disciples respond to the Gospel in Acts, Chapter 3 and after that? Did they deny Jesus Christ as the only Lord and the Resurrected Savior once? No, never. After Acts 1, when the disciples were empowered by the Holy Ghost, they never wavered. They responded boldly to the truth, and went to prison for it, and eventually died for it!. How about Stephen, did he waiver, ever?. No, he died for the truth. How about Ananias, with Sapphira? What was their penalty for lying to the Holy Spirit? Death and hell!

During the reformation, men and women of God died for their testimony. Pick up Foxe’s “Voice of the Martyrs” and see what happened to William Tyndale (1494-1536), George Wishart (1546), Felix Manz (1527), Michael Sattler (1495-1527), George Wagner (1527), Balthasar Hubmaier (1480-1528), George Blaurock (1491-1529), John Frith (1503-1533), John Lambert (1538), Dirk Willems (1569), Lady Jane Grey (1554), John Bradford (1510-1555), John Hooper (1555), John Rogers (1500-1555), John Penry (1593) and many, many, millions more. They did not waiver, they did not stretch the truth, and they died excruciating deaths for their beliefs.

Christians have been persecuted for their beliefs since the beginning, and we will be persecuted even more as we enter end time events.[b] The Christian does nothing on his own, by his own flesh, because he has been crucified with Jesus Christ. The Christian is a new creation, that has died to self and is empowered by the Holy Spirit!.[/b] We are commanded to witness to the lost till the end comes:

“18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Matthew 28:18-20

The end is close, and we must be strong in the Lord. He is the one that will get us through whatever we have to face—whether we live or die, we are “in Him”.

[b]In response to your concerns about forgiving others, you are misguided. We are to forgive those that have harmed us personally, as individuals. Those that have harmed us by words or deeds. False Prophets and False Teachers have not hurt us, individually. They are harming Jesus Christ, and His Gospel. His Word, the Anvil, The Bible directs us, his Body, His Church-- and he has given us specific directions in how to deal with them. I have previously posted on this thread Christ’s commands in how to handle false prophets and false teachers, that you have ignored entirely on this thread.

I do pray for Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, and many other false teachers. However, I do not have to forgive them, because they have not hurt me. I am commanded to expose them, in order to draw them back to Christ. I am also commanded to expose them because of their ability to corrupt others in the Body of Christ.[/b]

Sincerely,

Walter
:-)

MrBillPro wrote:
By the way just for the record here, I am not condoning any sin, or false teachers, I am just forgiving them, why? because I want to be forgiven, I think that is the way it goes, or maybe someone will show me some scripture that's to the contrary, Mr. Bill forgives very easily, you know why? because he has a huge mirror. :-)

slow down....I was marveling over the parable of the humble mustard seed, the same way in my morning devotionals, I've been tracking in Scriptures, when these Words are said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is near"..or "the Kingdom of God is near", and what that means, what that looks like, how you walk it out etc.

Thats been my burden, joyous burden, locked in prayer, wrestling with God.

what I am NOT doing is this, what you ACCUSE me of :

Yet according to you Natan, and others like you on this thread, we are supposed to cooperate with these PERVERTERS OF THE GOSPEL and cast aside our differences for the sake of the Gospel--A FALSE GOSPEL.

I never said that,and you should step back a second, and think and pray about this ungraceful tenor with which you accuse me of such. I cooperate with none of these folk, and the Lord knows it.

I am poor in spirit and the Lord knows it, hence this is the last post I make in response to this completely unedifying thread, and I pray the moderators discern as such, and lock this unseemingly display. It give God no Glory.

in Jesus' love to you Walter, neil

Mercy without repentance is not mercy at all, but unsanctified mercy. This is why the gospel is centered around repentance from dead works as a prerequisite to Faith.

In 2 Tim chpt: 2, Hymenaeus was marked, as one who said that the resurrection had passed. and had,"overthrown the faith of some." Previously , in 1 Tim: chpt:1, vs. 20, Paul says that he turned him [ Hymenaeus ] over to Satan, that he may learn "not to blaspheme." To some, like say the Mormon faith, multitudes believe another gospel. The momentum from this deception has surely overthrown the faith of some. They will be in the Lake of Fire forever because they believed a lie, and did not receive a love for the truth. The Mormons use the Bible too, and have an element of truth, and "terrific: family life.

So can you see where a true and Biblical gospel matters, in it's purity. The Israelites had to eat unleavened bread for a season, every day, as a point to bring this home... "the Feast of unleavened bread." Leaven is sin, and deceiving teaching. A little sin is like being a little married. It is the same with blasphemous teachers. Jesus is not the only way..in the long run, you will be fine because God is good. He wants you to be a success and live large. The bible states that the result of our faith and lives is that we will become like HIM!..that we will grow up into the fullness of christ, and LOVE, as He loves through us.

This is obtained through dying to ourselves, and hating our own way, as we love His way above all. There is suffering, and a commanded cross we all must bear to accomplish this death and resurrection within ourselves. "I am crucified with Christ, but never the less, I live,,, yet not I , but Christ who lives in me,,,and the life that I live........you know the rest.

This is the walk, and the heart of the faith.

So, if a man , representing himself as a Christian, is marked and rejected, even unto being delivered unto Satan, for preaching that the resurrection s past, how much more judgement for a "Pastor", who preaches that the blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God was irrelevant.......and NOT the only way to the Father;.. We all get to God by our own faith and religion that we choose.

You fail to see the difference between sin, and unbelief. You cannot repent of unbelief, except by believing, and that by the Word of God. Olsteen is a motivational speaker, who believes that God loves everyone, and exists for all to enjoy life, and that would be your best life now.

He ministers unbelief in the sense that He does NOT believe that Jesus is the only path and Savior of mankind...This is Pagan, and evil, and is at the heart of all heresies. Your "wiggle room" here is unacceptable, at least to me, and in my view, would be more in tune with some of the new age sites that proclaim the same ambiguous notions that Jesus fits nicely with the world, and other religions, and that God exists to bless us real good.

To MrBillPro:

I have tried to reply to your misconceptions about forgiveness. Other's have tried as well.

Brothertom had much to say to you about this, and concluded as follows:

This is the walk, and the heart of the faith.

So, if a man , representing himself as a Christian, is marked and rejected, even unto being delivered unto Satan, for preaching that the resurrection s past, how much more judgement for a "Pastor", who preaches that the blood sacrifice of the Lamb of God was irrelevant.......and NOT the only way to the Father;.. We all get to God by our own faith and religion that we choose.

You fail to see the difference between sin, and unbelief. You cannot repent of unbelief, except by believing, and that by the Word of God. Olsteen is a motivational speaker, who believes that God loves everyone, and exists for all to enjoy life, and that would be your best life now.

He ministers unbelief in the sense that He does NOT believe that Jesus is the only path and Savior of mankind...This is Pagan, and evil, and is at the heart of all heresies. Your "wiggle room" here is unacceptable, at least to me, and in my view, would be more in tune with some of the new age sites that proclaim the same ambiguous notions that Jesus fits nicely with the world, and other religions, and that God exists to bless us real good.
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[b]In conclusion to MrBillPro:

Based upon your posts, that are not supported by Scripture, I have to conclude that you have a blindess in regards to who we (Christians)are called to forgive and why. We have been commanded to treat false teachers and prophets, who Christ described as[color=990000] ravening wolves,[/color][/b][b] in specific ways. If it offends you, then your problem is not with me or other Christians who are obedient to God's Word. Your problem is with God Himself- talk to Him about it- fast and pray until you can understand.

My suggestion to you would be to become a Berean, and search the scriptures daily. Read the Word at night, in the evening. Disconnect your Television and radio and study God's Word. On your lunch break, study God's Word. Wake up in the morning and spend quiet time with the Lord by praying back His Word to Him.

Internaize His Word- "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Hebrews 4:12-13

Sincerley,

Walter

P.S.
We have some friends who have been missionaries to Africa for over 40 years. Idi Amin, the butcher of Uganda was in power and they (Richard & Dorothy Bennett) were led by the Spirit to preach at the time of the waning of his power. They were in a large building, full of Christian believers. Dorothy was at the podium, teaching the mixed audience of men and women. The locked door was broken and many soldiers came into the room, armed with AK 47's. The leader came up to the stage and pointed his gun into the chest of Dorothy Bennett, and said--"it is time for you to die". She responded, "no, it time for you to meet my Savior, Jesus Christ who died for you." The power of the Holy Spirit fell over this man, and he dropped the rifle and fell to his knees, and said "I must meet this woman's God".

He was convicted of his sin and accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord & Savior, and no one was killed! What Satan meant for evil, God turned it around, and made it for good.

That is what we have, as Christian believers---we are "new creations", and are led by the Holy Spirit, who lives within our hearts, where Jesus sits upon the Throne. We have been:
Crucified with Christ
We are dead with Christ
We were buried with Christ
We were made alive with Christ
We were raised together with Christ
We are sufferers with Christ
We are glorified with Christ[/b]