Fireproof: Best Married Life Now?

I am really looking forward to this movie coming to Canada this month. I will have to see it before making any judgements. I plan to give the makers and actors the benefit of the doubt.

repentperish,

your posts concern me. I am thinking that maybe your objections go deeper than what you are alluding to here.

You are right that we are not to make an idol out of our spouse or friends- but on the other hand a husband is to love his wife as Jesus loves the church- he lays down his life and gives it up for her. If you are familiar with Christ's great love toward His people, then you will have some idea as to how husbands are to love their wives.

We should esteem others above ourselves. This is not too hard to understand and you don't have to overanalyze it. Put others before yourself- do not be selfish.

My husband has sinned against me in the past, telling me lies and committng adultry. But we are still together since he has repented. But I also had to work very hard to continue to put him before myself. To esteem him above myself. I didn't want to because I didn't think he deserved it- but none of us do. I have learned so much about what love really is. What selflessness is.

Marriage exists to give the world a picture of what Christ and His church should look like.

Maybe we should try not to overanalyze and criticize and instead see where our hearts may be pricked. What good can we see in it and how can we apply it to our lives/marriages?

Sometimes when we criticize and overanalyze, it is because we want avoid the real problem- us.

The most recent biography of Tozer comes to mind as I read your post. Here was a supposedly Godly man, yet in his personal life- genuine loved lacked- especially toward his own wife, children and family. If one cannot love their own household and esteem them above himself- that concerns me. Something is out of balance. We cannot love the Lord and not love others. I'm not saying that Tozer was not Godly, but it is a good illustration, a warning. It was not until his wife remarried (after Tozer died) that his wife really felt someone loved her. How sad. That does not sound very much like Christ-likeness. Tozer might have impressed other people with his zeal and knowledge- but it was hypocritical to the one who was placed in his life to be his 'other half'.

In Christ, Chanin

They have another movie as well, called "Flywheel".

Feeling loved is receiving that rebuke

From what I gather you saying here- you also feel that God's love to us is rebuke. Yes, He does do that when we need it, but he also loves us in all those ways I just mentioned above- He is merciful, patient with us, kind, slow to anger, (Psalm 86:15, Psalm 103:8, Psalm 145:8)etc.....

How we feel God's love toward us is how we will treat others. If we feel God is harsh with us, we will be harsh with others. I hope you feel the genuine love of the Father toward you today so that you may in turn love others as He has loved you :)

In Him, Chanin

Sometimes I read some of these threads and have [u]no[/u] wonder why so many people are utterly turned off at so-called Christians. The critical nature of some of the ideas sends me almost over the edge.

There is a biting and devouring and consuming that does not glorify God. Imagine that for a minute?

[color=000066]But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. (Gal 5:15)[/color]

I have been concerned for some time that certain Christians get into a negative state of mind and begin to 'feed' off of others shortcomings by criticizing the person. It becomes almost a [i]means[/i] of edifying them. They feel 'built up' when they critique or judge others. But get this, when you consume someone else to build yourself up you are biting, devouring and consuming [i]them[/i]. You are taking precious edification from them that they need for survival.

Imagine the insanity of that? Consuming each other in order to edify themselves. One cannot build themselves up by tearing others down. It does not please God.

Robertson tells of a famous story of two snakes that swallowed each other by the tail until they met face to face having consumed the other. It ought to make us reevaluate whether or not we are guilty building ourselves up by tearing others down? An almost spiritual cannibalism of sorts where a person stops receiving from God in their devotional life and just begins consuming others that are doing things or have done things that don't fit their beliefs. It is really horrific if you think about it; because truly, which of us can afford to be the host for some parasitic Christian [i]to suck the life out of[/i] by their judgment and criticism?

Truly as our passage states- we ought to [u]give heed[/u] because the tendency is "If you bite me, I'll bite you back." It could easily deteriorate into a vicious bloody game of spiritual life and death- like two wildbeasts that kill and eat their prey. Let us get our edification from our devotional time with God and not at the expense of some precious soul for whom Christ died.

Let us be very careful that we do not find ourselves fighting against GOD by attacking HIS work through other believers.

Fireproof has a great Gospel presentation and seeks to heal Christian marriages. It was made by Saints who love GOD and who are orthodox in their faith. If they are not giving misinformation about salvation and GOD we shouldn't tear them down.

But get this, when you consume someone else to build yourself up you are biting, devouring and consuming them.

I would take this thought even further and argue that we may just be biting and devouring Jesus. When we criticize others we must seek the ulterior motive in our own heart then our eyes will become aware of our own sin. If we don't do this we could be judging Jesus again, in our neighbor, just as the religious people of His day tore His reputation to shreds.

In Christ,

Ron

Ron's: If we don't do this we could be judging Jesus again, in our neighbor, just as the religious people of His day tore His reputation to shreds.

I agree Ron. I am perplexed by how many people need [i]encouraged[/i] in the faith these days. I made several calls yesterday to folk that are home bound and by the time I was through hearing their discouragement and frustrations I almost needed to get in a prayer line myself.

We simply can't afford to feed on each other. I believe we need to really focus on edifying folk. There are too many that are too weak to survive being discouraged by nonsense and unwarranted criticism.

To all:

Its good to esteem the wife of your youth, to love her and appreciate her. There is no idolatry when God tells us to Love your wife like Christ loves the church.

I will fill you in on a little tid-bit of info. If you will not pour into your wife the love and sacrifice that is necessary to make a humble, unified marriage, you will never know revival in your home, you wont be much in God's eyes, you wont excell in prayer, you wont preach great sermons, you wont live the life Christ has called you to. In short you will fail the test to be Christ-like if you cannot be Christ-like to the covenant mate God has given you.

All talk of bible, sin, repentance and revival will end up being empty chatter that goes in one ear and out the other. A man of God that cannot rule his house cannot rule the house of God. A man that will not die to self in order to lead by example his own wife and family, will not do so for very long to strangers. The love of God is not a love that is stand-offish. The love of God intermixes itself with the objects of that love. Hoping the wife is just going to tow the line, while we men run off to play prophet and preacher is immaturity.

I suggest that if you do not highly esteem your wife, and treat her everybit as righteously as you would Christ, you do not understand the covenant of marriage and the importance it has in making a real godly man.

Micaiahsword

Ron and Robert, I appreciate the concerns you both shared.

I have found that my own correction has sometimes come from unexpected places. One time I was walking down the street and a man called me over to him. I recognised him as someone I had shared a passsage of scripture with before.

He reminded me of that and told me that he had something to share with me: it was James 2:10.

It was very appropriate to me at the time. I had been speaking to people often about the Ten Commandments and the Lord and as I recall it, it was very much needed for me to hear. I think I was becoming self-righteous.

Sometime later I noticed how it appears as though the commandments were written on both sides of the Tables(Ex 32:15) as though written on front and back? I thought that perhaps, if that was the case, it was as though if anyone were to hold them up to others, they would be holding them up to themselves as well.

Anyway, I really appreciate the plea to build up each other.

Thank you.

Micaiahsword,

this is one of the best and most biblical posts I have read in awhile. Thank you!

In Him, Chanin

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Many times we Christians get so critical because it makes us feel more spiritual.
Krispy

Wow! you exposed some, now can you start exposing some of our Governments faults? O I forgot they are doing a fine job themselves, by the way can I use this statement in my sig. line? :-)

Trust me Mr. Bill totally understands were your coming from,I know exactly what you were getting at.

I have not seen this movie, and don't know if I ever will because I do not have the time for it so I have no opinion about it. However, we are presently going through "The Way of the Master" series at church.

However, in reading these posts I can appreciate the concerns expressed by the various posters on either side of the issue. Repentperish made this comment:

Some of us stupidly think that our spouses, friends are going to be saved forever that we do not try THEIR spirits to see if it is of God. We let little sins go by and just call sins as "mistakes". This is spiritual dumbness and being mute over that certain issue.

This concept is one that has been dogging me in the past two months: really, we cannot be certain that our friends, relatives will be saved forever, that we just let their little sins go by without being challenged (obviously, I am not a Calvinist and PLEASE NO CALVINIST/ARMENIAN DISCUSSION HERE!!!) This has happened in our family. It is a critical spirit that has gone to seed, which grew up became a monster and is now consuming our family. The results? wife leaves her husband, taking the children with her. There is NO Biblical reason for that leaving. Now we SILs look back and see where we failed in confronting a 'little sin' but we also knew at the time it would not go over well, either. So there you go: little sins grow into monsters that will eventually take over and devour!

And in the meantime, we grieve, we hurt, we pray and cry...

The lesson is we need to be so loving we will confront sin whenever it appears in the spirit of love - read the book of Ephesians..

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Dear Micaiahsword,

I suggest that if you do not highly esteem your wife, and treat her everybit as righteously as you would Christ, you do not understand the covenant of marriage and the importance it has in making a real godly man.

You may have only a few posts but this one speaks volumes. Very well said and a pleasure to read.

The same advice holds for wives. This means look for ways to please and care for your husband, do not get by with only what is bare necessity. The mark of a good wife is that she nurtures her husband.

My husband and I talked this over before we got married and both felt it necessary to 'always be on the others side.' Don't be the spouse who, upon entering a room and seeing everyone lined up against their husband/wife, turns and says, 'What have you done, now?'

white stone

Krispy,

I am a little confused. Maybe I did not understand where Miciahsword was coming from- but I didn't think he was criticizing the movie- if anything just the opposite. Maybe I'm wrong. Sorry, if so.

int3grity wrote:

Let us be very careful that we do not find ourselves fighting against GOD by attacking HIS work through other believers.

Fireproof has a great Gospel presentation and seeks to heal Christian marriages. It was made by Saints who love GOD and who are orthodox in their faith. [b]If they are not giving misinformation about salvation[/b] and GOD we shouldn't tear them down.

While I certainly enjoyed the movie, as me and my wife watched it together, I did have one thing against the " salvation scene"-or even the method of salvation portrayed in the movie. Please, I am condeming anyone or judging anyone, but I thought the Kirk Cameron salvation scene was hypocritical.

The reason I say that, is because you have Kirk Cameron, who is a part of Way of The Master, who typically when they preach, preach about the law of God (Ten Commandments), yet Kirk Cameron plays a role in which in his supposed momemt of salvation in the movie is bowing down at wooden image of a cross which is forbidden in the 2nd Commandment. On top of that, and I could be wrong on this one, but I do not recall in the movie Cameron or his wife making confessions of Christ as Lord & Savior, I just remember Kirk saying to the other Firefighter " you know your faith, I a member now" or something of that extent. I mean if you want to talk about easy believism, that is it right there-

I liked the movie, but Cameron bowing at a wooden cross just didn't sit to well with me......maybe it is something he overlooked.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but will be watching it with my wife in about an hour...I've heard a lot of good reports on it and appreciate all the blogs so far.

Hello Krispy:

Please allow me to clarify. Whitestone caught the spirit in which I was attempting to share my point of view.

The movie didnt depict my statement, that statement of treating your wife righteously is taken from scripture and from personal experience. Ive been married for about 30 yrs now and I have acquired some biblical insight on how to live with the wife of my youth.

My intention was only to voice my opinion of esteeming ones wife and the value it has in relation to the directive of Paul in Eph 5.

Please excuse my poor post, I did not come here to criticize my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Please forgive any offense I may have given.

Micaiahsword

God's appointed method of bringing His own to Himself is the foolishness of preaching.

Man's twisted method(among others)is the foolishness of actors acting in movies.

How long will men continue seeking out new inventions, rather than going back to the Bible and following the command to preach the Gospel.

It is the Gospel of God.

It is the Gospel of the LORD Jeus Christ.

It is the Gospel of the kingdom.

The Gospel preached by preachers who are sent of God is the power of God unto salvation.

Away with these man-made schemes,the pragmatists and the pragmatist mindset.

Is His Word not able to accomplish that which He pleases and prosper it thereto where he sends it!

Stop mocking God with your movies and your carnal lifestyles all you actors and pragmatists.

Fall down and worship God, that you may see Him in His temple high and lifted up.

Stop your "rapping" and your "acting" and begin worshipping Him in spirit and in truth.

It is atrocious,it is a blot upon His Holy Name.

There is no place in the kingdom of God for performing. Leave the theatrics to the world and those from whom it was birthed.

Repent and turn from your idols!

God be praised forevermore. Amen.

religious movie = oxymoron
Political Leadership = oxymoron

6 of dozen of the other

I am agreeing with savannah

white stone

It is a critical spirit that has gone to seed ...

I have been concerned for some time that certain Christians get into a negative state of mind and begin to 'feed' off of others shortcomings by criticizing the person. It becomes almost a means of edifying them. They feel 'built up' when they critique or judge others. But get this, when you consume someone else to build yourself up you are biting, devouring and consuming them. You are taking precious edification from them that they need for survival.

[b]Sometimes I read some of these threads and have no wonder why so many people are utterly turned off at so-called Christians. The critical nature of some of the ideas sends me almost over the edge.[/b]

No wonder either. Breaking a self imposed silence I am grieved enough to feel compelled to say ...

Am seeing something that would never be expected, a perspective from the other side. For whatever variety of reasons, faults, I seem to have been 'locked out of the house', cut off from the normative sense of what has been more customary (perhaps part of the very problem) - It's cold, dark, far too quiet - I seem both dead, dull and dense to spiritual matters - If it were merely a 'dark night of the soul' it would be bearable, this, it seems is the dark night alone, no soul to be found.

[b][i]Critical[/i][/b] -

5. Capable of judging with accuracy; conforming to exact rules of propriety; exact; particular; as, to be critical in rites and ceremonies, or in the selection of books.

Or

6. Inclined to find fault, or to judge with severity.

A 'critical spirit' may not be the best choice of words after all, maybe it ought to be recast differently.

[b]Haughty
HAUGHTY[/b], a. hau'ty. [from haught.]

1. Proud and disdainful; having a high opinion of one's self, with some contempt for others; lofty and arrogant; supercilious.

[i]His wife was a woman of a haughty and imperious nature.[/i]

A haughty spirit goeth before a fall. Prov 16.

2. Proceeding from excessive pride, or pride mingled with contempt; manifesting pride and disdain; as a haughty air or walk.

3. Proud and imperious; as a haughty nation.

4. Lofty; bold; of high hazard; as a haughty enterprise.

[b]Disdain
DISDAIN[/b], v.t. [L., to think worthy; worthy. See Dignity.] To think unworthy; to deem worthless; to consider to be unworthy of notice, care, regard, esteem, or unworthy of ones character; to scorn; to contemn. The man of elevated mind disdains a mean action; he disdains the society of profligate, worthless men; he disdains to corrupt the innocent, or insult the weak. Goliath disdained David.

Whose fathers I would have disdained to set with the dogs of my flock. Job 30.

[b]DISDAIN, n.[/b] Contempt; scorn; a passion excited in noble minds, by the hatred or detestation of what is mean and dishonorable, and implying a consciousness of superiority of mind, or a supposed superiority of mind, or a supposed superiority. In ignoble minds, disdain may spring from unwarrantable pride or haughtiness, and be directed toward objects of worth. It implies hatred, and sometimes anger.

[i]How my soul is moved with just disdain.[/i]

[b]Contempt
CONTEMPT, n.[/b] [L. See Contemn.]

1. The act of despising; the act of viewing or considering and treating as mean, vile and worthless; disdain; hatred of what is mean or deemed vile. This word is one of the strongest expressions of a mean opinion which the language affords.

[b]Contemptuous
CONTEMPTUOUS, a.[/b] Manifesting or expressing contempt or disdain; scornful; as contemptuous language or manner; a contemptuous opinion. Applied to men, apt to despise; haughty; insolent; as a nation, proud, severe, contemptuous.

[b]Insolent
IN'SOLENT, a.[/b] Proud and haughty, with contempt of others; overbearing; domineering in power; as an insolent master.

1. Proceeding from insolence; haughty and contemptuous; as insolent words or behavior.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To these could be added, [i]terse, angst, fault-finding[/i] and not fault by finding, but fault by expectation. Even the title of this post has the terse anticipation actually [i]accusation[/i] laced with all this poison of spirit.

I presently feel as one of [i]them[/i], on the outside looking in. And if this were to be what constitutes the true spirit of a Christian I would be compelled to harden myself against it and drive myself even further into enjoying every last drop of self seeking sin and pleasure. But it goes further than this.

[i]Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.[/i] Luk 18:10-14

Women contending with men - "Preaching" with audacity and contempt, the words are bitter poison - And the men who speak presumptuously about things they have not experienced, obvious by the high-mindedness and ignorance of the difficulties that are in many a marriage.

I plan to watch this movie this evening due to the very spite being leveled at it. My marriage has been so wrought with difficulties and so much of it has been precisely due to taking this very poisonous spiritual approach, this Pharisaical [i]pounding[/i], this Lasik eye surgery of specks while I ...

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crsschk wrote:
I plan to watch this movie this evening due to the very spite being leveled at it. My marriage has been so wrought with difficulties and so much of it has been precisely due to taking this very poisonous spiritual approach.

Mr. Bill sure is glad to see there are other Christians in the world that can still think for themselves, and not be guided by a few, follow the Spirit in all things, that's my motto. :-)

If I may, I'd like to write a little from my own perspective- my own story. Though my husband and I have been christians for quite a few years now, 3 yrs ago, my husband committed adultry. It was a very tough time for both of us, but especially rough on my emotional and spiritual state. I was clinging on for dear life!

Praise God, He is so good to help us grow and to restore things.

When Fireproof came out, my husband and I went to see it and I cannot tell you the freedom I felt, just the sense that the feelings that I had during that awful time- were normal and lots of marriages go through things like this. Not that it makes it right at all- but I felt like "you mean I'm not the only one!?"

I cried (tried not to- don't like my husband to see me weak) My husband cried buckets!!! Immediately the next day he took my 18 yr old daughter to see it as well, and again cried buckets! Just the reminders of taking the time to show love, to show patience, to show gentleness (to show your "Fruit") And yes, as spiritual as we may all think we are- sometimes we have to purposely make the effort. We can't sit back and think that the God is going to do it all. We have to take an active part.

My husband was so moved by the movie. It opened up so much new communication for us both. he has taken other men to see the movie because he knows so many men need to see the movie (and women too).

He is on the board of our local fire department and when Fireproof came out on video, he bought like 20 or so DVDs to give to guys at the Fire house. They could watch it at the firehouse or share them and take them home. I have no idea who may or may not be christians there- but it's a great way to shine a light, to soften a hard heart. It may be just the thing that someone needs to take that next step.

He gave a copy to his VP at work- a man who he's been trying to share- not only the gospel with- but just plain old human kindness and genuine christian love- He and his wife watched it the other night and he came back thanking Dan and told him that they both cried like babies. It opened up a new line of communication for them too.

Praise God for that little seed!!!!!!!

All we can do is plant some seeds here and there, shine His light, share His love, give biblical counsel if needed. I don't think any of this goes to waste.

People don't need only a preacher preaching the gospel at them- they need to see the Gospel lived out in others lives everyday- at the office, at the firehouse, at home, at the grocery store.

I'm sorry but to reiterate what Mike has touched on, so much of this criticism and pushing hard thoughts of God on people- it breaks my heart. People are not going to respond to that- and if they do it's out of fear and is usually temporary. It's changed lives that speak volumes!!!! It's seeing people respond to conflict and trials in a biblical way that glorifies the Lord and makes people wonder what we have that they don't.

I know all that I'm writing is not coming out as clearly as I'd like it. I'm rushed for time (got a date with my own sweet hubby for valentine's day :)

In His love, Chanin