Entire Sanctification

"There are two great words in the New Testament relative to the state and position of the believer Justification and Sanctification. Speaking roughly we may say that Justification means “being counted righteous,” and Sanctification “made righteous.” When a man is born again, God both counts him righteous, forgiving all the past—and makes him righteous giving him a new nature. Hence Paul, when writing to the Christians of his day, though many of them were carnal, calls them saints, or sanctified ones. Sanctification, however, may be divided into two parts—“regeneration,” or sanctification begun, and “complete sanctification” which is the work completed, and which is the subject we are considering. In this connection it is interesting to note that John Wesley entitles his great classic on the subject “Entire Sanctification.”

By A. Paget Wilkes

Alpheus Paget Wilkes (19 Jan 1871 – 5 Oct 1934) was an English evangelical Christian missionary to Japan who was one of the founders of the Japan Evangelistic Band in 1903. In addition to extensive mission work in Japan, and touring South East Asia, he wrote a number of penetrating expositions of Christian scriptures.

I go to a church that is Wesleyan/Arminian, and they have taught "christian perfectionism" or "entire sanctification", it seems though, that to hold to that doctrine, one must re-define "perfection". I believe that though Wesley taught entire sanctification, he claimed to have never achieved it himself, as well as stating that one can lose their status of "christian perfection" even after attaining it.

In like manner men resisted the faith theory of justification in Luther’s time, and so men oppose the faith theory of an instantaneous sanctification today. But it will yet be seen on earth, as it will be perfectly known in heaven, that the “Second Blessing Theory,” so often ridiculed and assailed, is God’s way of sanctifying the soul. The ridicule hurled at it is no indication of its not being true, for it stands in good company in the matter of an undeserved discredit. So the multitude jeered at Christ on the cross. So men laugh at the Bible, and at the doctrines of the Resurrection and the Final Judgment. And so have I seen them laugh at revival meetings when the Holy Ghost was saving people and they were shouting the praises of God.

Men mocked at Pentecost, and continue to ridicule the truth and work of God. A minister said in the preachers’ meeting of a large Western city that “he was convinced that the whole second blessing movement was born in hell.”

There was not a preacher present who enjoyed the blessing of sanctification. Most of them were skeptical in regard to the matter, and were trying to keep it out of their churches; but at this fearful remark there was a chorus of
protesting voices from the entire body: “No, no, brother; don’t say that!” The speech of the excited man bordered wonderfully near to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. To say that the holiness movement, inspired and swept
onward by the Holy Spirit, is a work born in hell is frightfully similar to the utterance of the angry Jews when Christ by the power of the Spirit cast out devils in their presence . They said He did it by the power of Beelzebub, locating the power and origin of the miracle in hell. It was then Jesus turned and said: “The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven.” This He said, Mark writes, “because they said He had an unclean spirit.” They gave a divine work a hellish origin.

But no matter how men deny and resist, the Bible teaches that the purification of the heart is the work of God. Peter tells how this purifying came by faith on the day of Pentecost, and John states that it is while “we walk in the light,”
“having fellowship one with another,” that then “the blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin.” As thus taught in God’s Word, it is a divine work and subsequent to regeneration. Mr. Wesley says the last quoted verse is one of the strongest passages to teach the second work. Of course, the word “cleanseth” is in the present tense, and this very fact gives the idea of the constant, unbroken, perpetual sense of cleanness that comes with the blessing of entire
sanctification. But not less clear is the truth that this cleansing fromall sin came while the man was “in the light” and enjoying christian “fellowship.”

But, says an objector, I do not believe that God has to do His work over again. The answer to this is that sanctification is not the doing over of regeneration, but is a different work altogether. The second work being not to
improve regeneration but to eliminate the fallen nature.

Still, with this explanation, the objector has spoken hastily in saying God does not have to do his work over again,This He certainly does in the recovery of every backslider.

But, says the objector again, I do not believe that God does a second work; I believe He accomplished everything He has to do in one work.
The reply to this is that, plausible as is the speech, everything contradicts it in nature and grace.

The first contradiction is from the world, which as it rolls through space says God made me by six distinct touches or works; every one was different, and all six together made me the habitable earth I am today.

The second contradiction comes from the human family. When Adam was created, the race in its federal nature was not completed. It takes not only male but female to make man, and the two were not made at once. God first created man and then afterwards made the woman and brought her to Adam. There are few but will admit that the
second work was an improvement on the first. So it took two works to make what is properly called man.

The author cannot see how a woman can consent to fight the second blessing when she is a second blessing herself.

The third contradiction is seen in the two covenants God has at different times given the world.

The Bible says there were two, and Paul distinctly says that the first was not perfect. Some people insist that every one of God’s works is perfect; they seem to know more than the Lord Himself, for He affirms in His own Word that the first covenant was not faultless, while in James we read that “every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,” showing that there is a difference in God’s gifts, some being good and some perfect. Regeneration is never called perfection in the Bible; but being regenerated, we are told to go on to perfection. So the first covenant not being faultless, God gives another that is perfect, in which the “old sin is purged”; there is no more “remembrance of sin,” and the worshiper himself is “made perfect.” Two works are beheld in regard to the covenants.

The fourth contradiction to the statement that God does everything in one work is seen in what took place with the disciples on the day of Pentecost. They evidently received a new divine work or grace on the morning of the tenth day. That they were converted men and women when they went into the upper roomthere can be no doubt if
language means anything. Christ said they were branches of the true Vine, that their names were in the Book of Life, and that they were not of the world, even as He was not of the world. He had sent themforth to preach the Gospel, but this He has never done with sinners. They had cast out devils, and Christ said that a devil could not cast out a devil, else was the house of Satan divided. In addition to all this, days before He had breathed upon them and said:
“Receive ye the Holy Ghost.” Who can read these statements and descriptions and not see that they were saved men and women? Yet on the morning of the tenth day suddenly the power of God fell upon them and they were all filled
with the Holy Ghost, and they began to speak with new tongues. Peter leaped to his feet and cried out: “This is what Joel said should take place in the last days.”

This one speech of Peter proves it was a new grace or blessing received. Here was something long ago prophesied just sent down upon them. Certainly this could not be pardon and regeneration, for men had enjoyed the justified
experience all along. Surely the patriarchs, prophets, David, Simeon, Anna, and John the Baptist had religion. The very astonishment and gladness of the disciples showed that the blessing was new. Suppose, for instance, one of us should promise our children a remarkable breakfast. They could scarcely sleep for thinking what it would be, but of course looked for dainties and luxuries. But next morning, on filing into the dining room, they discovered the same old breakfast of bread, meat and coffee. One thing is certain, they would not be in a rapture, and none of them would spring on a chair and cry out in enthusiasm: “This is what Joel said should take place.” If what happened at Pentecost was what had been experienced before, how can the joy and astonishment and quotation of Peter be reconciled with the facts? No! Instead of this we are brought face to face again with the second work of grace. ‘The marvelous change that took place in the disciples from this hour settles the fact that it was a second work, not of pardon and life, but of purity and power.

The fifth contradiction is seen in what took place with the Saviour on the banks of Jordan when He was baptized with the Holy Ghost. All of us know that Christ was without sin, that Satan could find nothing in Him in all His beautiful and holy life; and yet on the banks of Jordan He received what had not come upon Him before, in the anointing or Baptism of the Holy Ghost. There are two works accomplished in the Baptism of the Holy Ghost as received by the Christian believer -- “purifying the heart” and “enduement of power.” In Christ’s case, there was no
fallen nature or moral taint of any kind to be purged away. All that could take place with His spotless human nature was the empowering of the Spirit. Hence the Holy Ghost did not descend on Him with fire, as in the case of the disciples, but as a dove.

That the Saviour did receive the enduement of power then, is seen by the clear statements of Scripture. It was after this memorable morning that it is said that “He went forth in the power of the Spirit.” This was not said of Him
before. We are also made to remark the effect of this anointing immediately upon His ministry. We read that He went up to Nazareth and on the Sabbath day entered into the synagogue, and when the roll of Scripture was put in His hands He stood up to read, and selected as His text from Isaiah the very thing that had happened to Him on the river Jordan: “The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me: because He hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; He hath sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaimthe acceptable year of the Lord,” etc. We read that He then sat down and began to preach, and all marveled at His words. Moreover, the discourse was so heart-searching and incisive that the officials of the synagogue became enraged and took hold of Him violently and tried to hurl Him down a precipice.

Now lest any one should think this was Christ’s first public talk or sermon, the Scripture says He stood up that day in the synagogue “according to His custom.” The difference was that He had received the anointing of the Holy Ghost, and His words, now power-freighted, were simply overwhelming. It does seem to us that, in view of this occurrence, men should be slow in saying God does everything in one work. He does not. He did not even do so with His own Son. And when we hear a man say that he obtained all in Repentance, and then note the one absolutely
perfect man who ever lived receiving on the banks of Jordan the anointing of the Holy Ghost, we are made to marvel at some people’s mental density or spiritual arrogance.

The sixth contradiction is to be found in the two touches laid by the hand of Christ on the eyes of the blind man. It does seem to the writer that this second touch was given by the Saviour, if for no other reason than to close the mouths of people who say that God does everything in one work. Vision came with the first touch and perfect vision with the second. This very order ought to prepare the people to
see how that love comes with one operation of divine grace and perfect love with another.

The seventh contradiction is seen in the word Redemption. Usually men think that the word stands for one work, when it really covers four. The first work wrought in the salvation of a soul is conviction. This can never be done by
a man. It is a divine work. It takes the Holy Ghost to burden a man for his sins, and when it is done that man is miserable and restless, and oftentimes can neither eat nor sleep. Still the man is not saved; he is simply convicted. But
when he repents and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ the Holy Ghost works again and this time regenerates him. Still there is a third work, for Paul writes to regenerated people, and says, “This is the will of God even your
sanctification,” and still again, “The God of peace sanctify you wholly.” He who regenerates can sanctify us wholly. But there is yet a fourth divine work, and this time upon the body. It is called the resurrection. The body is a part of man and is included in redemption. It is to be raised from the dust and out of death, and renewed with transcendent glory. This is the last work. Redemption is then completed. Instead, then, of one work, redemption includes four! -- conviction, regeneration, entire sanctification, and resurrection. And yet there are some people who say that God does everything in one work.

Thus we meet the objections that God never has to do His work over again, and never does but one work. The sweeping away of these opposing thoughts leaves us with the blessed truth that God can and will and does purify the pardoned soul. It is His work and our privilege. Thank God that when Christ came to this world He did not appear in our midst with one gift of grace, but with two. He had no empty hand, but both were full for the human family --Pardon in one for the sinner, and Purity in the other for the believer. May every child of God lose no more time, but press forward at once and receive the blessing that has been waiting so long for him.

THE SANCTIFIED LIFE
By Beverly Carradine

What do you mean by ADD

A Devilish Delusion

:-D

Here you go Krispy

It is the blood of Jesus alone that can cleanse from all sin. It is His power alone that can destroy the fallen nature and create clean hearts. And so He has come to his Church with this great blessing. He has a diadem of beauty for her head. He has beautiful garments of purity for her form. He has a blessing for her that will make her arise, shine, rejoice, and take the world for Him. It is the distinguishing blessing of the Messiah. He comes first to his temple, though there be many houses in the world. He will “purify the sons of Levi,” said Malachi. He will “save his people from their sins,” said the angel. “He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire,” said John. “He will sanctify his Church,’’ said Paul.

And then what? Well, in the might, beauty, and glory of the second work, the Church will sweep out of Jerusalem over Judea, through Samaria, unto the uttermost parts of the earth, carrying light, life, salvation, and holiness everywhere.
This is the second work of grace. Pardon and peace is the first; purity and power is the second.

Mahoney wrote:

The worst that can happen to a believer that seeks after sinless perfection is, Lord willing, they will experience how weak they really are, how wicked they really are, and be convinced that "in them dwells NO GOOD THING."

I came to Christ bankrupt. My capacity to blunder drove me to his feet, and to my astonishment he took me, forgave me, and sent my happy soul singing its way down the years. By grace was I saved, through faith, and that not of
myself — it was the gift of God. I walked in the joy of that for months and then the clouds began to gather. There was something within me not
redeemed, something else down in the cellar that seemed to be sullenly at war with this new life. I was at war with myself.

I think I can see what happened. We live in two minds — the conscious and the subconscious.
The subconscious is the residing place of the driving instincts: self, sex, and the herd. These instincts have come down through a long racial history and they have bents toward evil.
Into the conscious mind there is introduced at conversion a new life, a new loyalty, a new love.
But the subconscious mind does not obey this new life. Its driving instincts drive for fulfillment apart from any morality built up in the conscious mind. There ensues a clash between the new life in the conscious mind and the instincts of the subconscious. The house of man-soul becomes a house divided against itself.

I wondered if this was the best that Christianity could do — to leave one in this divided condition? I found to my glad surprise the teaching concerning the Holy Spirit, and I found that the area of the work of the Holy Spirit is largely, if not entirely, in the subconscious. I found that if I would surrender to the Holy Spirit this conscious mind — all I knew and all I did not know — He would cleanse at these depths I could not control. I surrendered and accepted the gift by faith. He did cleanse as a refining fire. In that cleansing there was a unifying. Conscious and subconscious minds were brought under a single control and redemption. That control was the Holy Spirit. I was no longer at war with myself. Life was on a permanently higher level. It was no longer up and down. The soul had caught its stride. I went on my way singing a new song. That song has continued. It is fresher today than then.

MY TESTIMONY By E. Stanley Jones

I am aware of a sinful nature in me. I am fed up being tugged back like some dog on a chain. I am fed up having no power over sin in my life but find sin have power over me. Yes I am justified but I want everyhting God has for know. I do not believe that sin should have domion over us but that we should have domion over it.

I want the promise know I want to cross the Jordan.

John Wesley wrote:
QUESTION: When may a person judge himself to have attained this?

ANSWER: When, after having been convinced of inbred sin, by a far deeper and clearer conviction than that which he experienced before justification, and after having experienced a gradual mortification of it, he experiences a total death to sin, and an entire renewal in the love and image of God, so as to “rejoice evermore,” to “pray without ceasing,” and in everything to give thanks.

The destruction of Inbred sin in your life is a reality that can be experienced in this life time.

Look at the words of this Hymm. In this generation we have lost sight of the truth.

Rock of Ages, cleft for me,
Let me hide myself in Thee;
Let the water and the blood,
From Thy wounded side which flowed,
Be of sin the double cure;
Save from wrath and make me pure.

KrispyKrittr,

Here are a few more from the same authors:

"Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." I John 3:6-9

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin." Rom. 6:1-7

The way that "entire sancification" has been explained is that the believer is not actually perfect, he still is subject to "mistakes", but the will and desire to sin is eradicated. The analogy given has been "the litle rebel inside" that is constantly against full surrender to God, once you ask God to sanctify you entirely, you have turned your life completely over to God and he has killed the sin nature that had abided within.

At our last revival meetings, there was a godly woman, I believe in her late 70's, dear Mrs. Boyd, that stood up in tears and confessed her desire to be completely sanctified. I was amazed that though she was raised in a Holiness denomination, she had never felt she had recieved entire sanctification, though the preacher had said that it was not a big thing, but to simply ask God for it. Somthing about that occoruance (sp) did not feel right to me, it seemed more to confirm my belief that as we grow in our relationship with God, we have a fuller realization of what wretches we truly are apart from Christs imparted righteousness.

Hi Wayneman,
I don't think that Krispy was advocating antinominism with those verses, listen to some sermons on the doctrine of regeneration, the verses cited by you are addressing those that walk in continual unrepentant sin. If you have sinned even once after your conversion, where do you stand? I don't ask this out of strife, but rather ask you to examine your theory by your own experience.
Grace and Peace,
Joe

For reference purposes, you may all find Dr. H.A. Ironside's experience and recovery from the Wesleyan/"Holiness" churches interesting.

http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/ironsideholiness.html

1.God sees his children pure and holy because Christ stands in thier place. Justification

2. God's children are being made holy by the power of the Spirit. Sanctification

3. God Children will be sinless and pure when Christ returns. glorification

"1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We wont be like Christ, sinless, untill Christ appears,(I john 3:2) of we die and meet him in glory.

love andy

jlosinski wrote:
Hi Wayneman,
I don't think that Krispy was advocating antinominism with those verses, listen to some sermons on the doctrine of regeneration, the verses cited by you are addressing those that walk in continual unrepentant sin. If you have sinned even once after your conversion, where do you stand? I don't ask this out of strife, but rather ask you to examine your theory by your own experience.
Grace and Peace,
Joe

Theory? I don't have one, and my own experience certainly dosn't ratify the doctrine of sinless perfection. I know Krispy isn't preaching antinomianism; I just didn't want the thread to end with Romans 7 as if it is a summary of the normal Christian life. If we ignore the chapter break and read 7 and 8 in continuity it is clear that that is not what Paul was saying. I am painfully aware of what Paul means by "another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind," and have no first-hand experience of any state of Christian perfection. But I believe victory over sin is attainable because Paul says in chapters 6 and 8 that the sinful man he describes in chapter 7 is crucified, dead and buried. (ch. 6:6,7)

Peace,

wayneman

*edited for grammar*

Let me reiterate that I don't have a theory or theological axe to grind. I was following this thread intently but hesitant to jump in with my own opinion because I've been studying salvation-regeneration-sanctification--especially Romans 5-8 and First John--for a couple weeks now, trying to get clarity on the subject. I am nowhere near having a comprehensive doctrine of sanctification, and that's not the objective anyway. Instead of striving for exegetical exactitude and adjudicating between warring schools of thought, I'm learning to stand on the promises in the two passages I've quoted, with good results. What I have learned so far is that my walk with God is strongest when I am focused on Christ rather than my own performance.

This is a good thread because we're discussing a critically important subject, on which there is a lot of room for disagreement, without it degenerating into another theological pie fight.

One thing we can surely agree on is that we all want to be as holy as it is possible for a Christian to be this side of eternity.

wayneman

Hi wayne,
Just as I had feared, I misunderstood what your motivations were for posting, and seemed to build on my presuppositions. Sorry about that. i did appreciate what you wrote in your posts:

"I'm learning to stand on the promises in the two passages I've quoted, with good results. What I have learned so far is that my walk with God is strongest when I am focused on Christ rather than my own performance."

I have experienced the same as well, resting in Christ and trusting Him to conform me to Himself. Our sanctification is an outworking of our communion with God, we serve God according to knowlege, and implicit with that is a growing knowlege of what He hates and what He loves.

After a time of prayer and fasting God opened my eyes to see that in me that there was a system of evil that goes down into the deepest part of my being. That this system causes you to be who you are. This system is so wrapped up in you that you think it is you.

Do we find this mentioned in scripture

Rom 7v 14-23 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Paul became aware of this system. Where he cries Romans 7 v 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Here is a man who says he is still in bondage even though he is a Child of God and wants to please God he finds that in him he has not got the ability to do it. He is living a defeated life still under the control of sin. Forgiven, Righteous, Justified but still in bondage because of that system.

I find in my life since that time of prayer and fasting that I am being brought to a point of surrender and that God is working in me to bring me to the point of absolute surrender .

For me it all started when I had enough of church and walked out. I as I walked out I prayed and told God that I was not going back to church, I told him that I believed everything he had spoken to me but I don't know how he was going to it. When I stopped praying this is what I heard in my heart. "You'll be just like Job" that was not what I was wanting to hear.

Seven years later I get virus that causes your skin to break out in blisters. What was the words that came back to my mind "You'll be just like Job". That is how I get to this time of fasting and prayer that I told you about earlier.

God at that time didn't just show me what was in me but that he had also through Duncan Campbell testimony that there was a cure for the removal of the beast that was in me. This was how became aware of what Duncan Campbell calls the second blessing.

Know at the time I was reading Job a lot as you can imagine to get to know this man a bit better. In reading Job I saw what God said about Job and that he was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

But I read in Job 42v5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Job declares that he had heard about God but know he says he can see God. God purifed Jobs heart. So even though God called this man perfect, upright and that he feared God, and eschewed evil that his heart was not pure.

This second work is a work where God mortifys the sinful nature and you will have a pure heart. What the Holy Spirit does is to give the victory. "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Romans 8:13). It is He who, when the heart is opened wide to receive Him, comes in and reigns there, and mortifies the deeds of the body, day by day, hour by hour, and moment by moment.

When the Holy Spirit is in your purfied heart you will then have the strength to resist the temptation to sin. You'll live a life of victory in Jesus where he is in you and you in him and that Jesus is all and all where your old defeated live has been exchanged for a life of victory in Jesus.

0 wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord

Inbred sin appears again in Ephesians 4v22 "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts." Here is an exhortation not to sinners, but to a church. Certain expressions in this Epistle show beyond all question the spiritual condition of the members of the church. Paul says that they were "quickened" who had been "dead in trespasses and in sins;" that they were once "afar off," but were now "made nigh by the blood of Christ;" that they were no more strangers and foreigners, but "fellow-citizens with the saints and of the household of God." Still again he tells them to forgive one another "even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you," and a few verses after that states: "Ye were sometime darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light."

These expressions undoubtedly declare the saved condition of the people to whom the apostle wrote. And yet to these who were "forgiven" and "light in the Lord" and "of the household of God" he writes: "Put off the old man."

Could anything be plainer? Does not the reader see that something dark and evil is left in the heart of the regenerated man? That this something which is here called the "old man" is not to be pardoned, but taken away, put off, removed.

Titus 3v5 He saved us by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Salvation is seen to be a double work
1.washing of regeneration
2.renewing of the Holy Ghost

That is what Entire Sanctification is.

I will tell you what heresy is that purity comes by growth in grace. This teaching seen at a glance, uncrowns Christ, robs him of his glory of sanctifying the Church as mentioned in Ephesians, and transforms what is recognized in the Bible as a divine work into a mere development.

It is true that the Bible says, "Grow in grace;" but let the reader mark that it says "in grace." It does not say grow up to or into grace.

The "old man" quietly watches the growing brother, then the "old man" shakes the religious timber and underbrush and says: "I am in here, and you must not forget it."

quote: It is true that the Bible says, "Grow in grace;" but let the reader mark that it says "in grace." It does not say grow up to or into grace.

Not to disagree as regards grace, but for the Christian there is a process of maturation or perfection as God works to conform us to the image of His Son (Rom8:29). There is a birth, then an infancy (Paul addresses this clearly in 1Cor3:1-1), a childhood (note how many times John uses the phrase "little children"), and all the stages of maturing in our faith. (See 1John2:12-14)

As to sanctification it is entirely the work of God as we walk in the Spirit (see preceding verses in 1Thess 5):

1Thess5:23 "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

That word "wholly" is compounded of two words in the Greek. It means: completely-entirely; sound in every part" Martin Luther translated it "through and through." Vine's says the essence of what it means in this passage is: "Every grace present in Christ should be manifested in the believer." Praise be to God!

Sanctification is the continual process of separating and separating us unto Himself, until there is less and less of us and more and more of Him, so we can say with John the Baptist: "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Entire sanctification is one of the great truths of scripture that has been obfuscated by the modern church. I would encourage you to read this book by a dear brother and Pastor named Jim Kerwin. He's a dear brother in Christ and here's the link:[url=http://www.finestofthewheat.org/Jim_Kerwin/The_Rejected_Blessing.php]The Rejected Blessing[/url]. Brother Greg posted his book on SI in 2007 [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11554&forum=40&6]On SI[/url].

Here's a three part interview with Pastor Kerwin and my pastor: [url=http://www.finestofthewheat.org/Audio/Jim_Kerwin/Rejected_Blessing_Interviews.php]The Rejected Blessing Interview[/url].

This is something that Jesus does and it's not by hard work or trying harder. The blood of Jesus has the power to set the human heart free from sin and not to live in rebellion to God. What many fail to realize, and I've been one of these folks most of my life, fail to realize how they maintain ownership of their life, yet claim to be followers of Christ.

Keep on pressing in and ask the Holy Spirit to unfold this precious truth to your heart!

Thank you for the encouragement Death2self

I tried looking for this book The Rejected Blessing someone did supply me with a link to me but it was broken.

I have not seen a teaching so strongly resisted. When I was at the the SI conference in Greenock I asked this question to the Q+A panel. Can we have revival without Entire Sanctification. When the question was read out there was a Ohhhh from the congregation. The first man just laughed and said on I will have to wait until heaven for this. The fact of the matter there is a Move of God coming and this Holiness teaching that has been rejected will be at the heart of it.

As for myself I had never heard of it until that time of fasting and prayer and it was the Holy Spirit that led me to it. I fully convinced that I will post on here in the future that the Holy Spirit has done this work in me. What he is doing right know is teaching me and that is building my faith.

You have hit on the key of obataining the blessing in your post.

What many fail to realize, and I've been one of these folks most of my life, fail to realize how they maintain ownership of their life, yet claim to be followers of Christ.

The blessing comes through a complete and total surrender of yourself to God.

Dear FreeCD I think your stance is that you don't believe in this second work of grace or are opposed to it in some way.

But I have heard from heaven in this matter and God has spoke to my heart and I believe him. I had never heard of this blessing before and had no view of the matter. No man told me about this blessing, I was not taught about it from a pulpit for good or bad.

But one thing I notice that the majority of the men who have on your web site FreeCD claimed to have experienced this work of Holiness in there life. I can't say all because I have not seen all there testimonies but I have seen the majority.

I would encourage you to pray strongly about truly finding out the truth about Holiness and the second work of grace. As I said earlier it was no man that led me to the this truth but the Holy Spirit and because of that I can stand strong in what God has shown me.

Colin

It seems as if much of the Church today cries heresy when sinless perfection is taught, and I do not believe that the Word of God teaches this doctrine, but to teach that a Christian cannot overcome sin and has to sin every day is also not taught in the Word of God.

Our goal as Christians should be Christlikeness. Does not the Word say to be perfect, even as He is perfect, to be holy even as He is holy.

God sees all that are in Christ as holy, unblameable, and without reproach. (Colossians 1:22). The Holy Spirit has been sent to make the believer's standing a actual reality in his life.

When a man is born again, he becomes a new creation, and through the Holy Spirit, Christ is living within him. At the new birth, the believers spirit is sanctified and made holy by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

The soul (mind, will, and emotions) is in the process of being sanctified. We are being transformed by the renewing of our minds. This is a process. "Receiving the end [goal] of your faith — the salvation of your souls." (1 Peter 1:9) The salvation of the soul is a process, and does not occur by any one experience. When one is baptized in the Spirit, the warfare will increase. If we walk in the Spirit, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The body of the believer will be changed at the coming of the Lord. This speaks of something that will happen in the future when we receive our glorified bodies. We are to present our bodies to God as living sacrifices. Jesus has done everything that He is going to do to sanctify us and make us holy but we must recieve Him as our sanctification, and make a complete surrender to Him.

Mike

Colon,
I do not personally know Tom Plumb, but have been e-mailing him off and on since 2006.
God Bless
Nellie

Act 15v7-9 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

The scripture above is from Acts 15 where the church met to discuss the work in the gentiles.
It says in Acts 15v7 Peter stood up after much debate to. He (Peter) points out that the Gentiles experience was every bit as Divine as that of the original Pentecost band and he draws out a point to prove that the Gentiles are no different from the Jews.

Acts 15v8-9 "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

What was it for Peter, the God-given “sign” that proved to the great preacher of Pentecost that the Gentiles had “got it” their hearts were purified by faith. They had been sanctified! Yes, they were saved glory to Jesus! In the power of the Spirit they miraculously spoke in tongues how wonderful! But all those years after the Day of Pentecost, to bolster his argument and make his case as strong as he could in the council, Peter’s testimony was that God gave those Gentiles the Spirit's witness of purified hearts.

Here is an Excerpt from Pentecost By Leonard Ravenhill

In Europe Pentecost Sunday is always called Whitsunday (White Sunday), and the children usually dress in white. The disciples were "made white" at the first Pentecost - that is, their hearts were "purified by faith" (Acts 15:8, 9). This purification is a lost accent these days in interpreting the Baptism with Spirit. Under the title of Spirit-filled churches, there are some weird and wanton things operating at present.
If too much stress has not been made of the gifts of the Spirit, then too little has been said of the fruit of the Spirit. Note how few books are available on the fruits of the Spirit, but how many on the gifts of the Spirit. Yet the Son of God said, "By their fruits ye shall know them."

The first essential for the coming of the Holy Ghost into a heart today is that the heart should be cleansed from sin, for the Holy Spirit does not fill an unclean heart. What God has cleansed, He then fills. Finally, whom God fills, He uses. A holy life is the authentic sign of being filled with the Spirit.

Look at this statement “A holy life is the authentic sign of being filled with the Spirit”

This goes along with what Peter was saying in Acts 15 v 8-9 the distinction if you have the Holy Spirit is that you should live a Holy life because your heart has been cleansed.

So where have we gone astray? Are our hearts pure are our hands clean. The church today needs the this sanctifying work done in the heart of believers.

The vast majority of the church today is living in John20v22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost and not in Acts 2

A PERFECT-HEARTED PEOPLE

God is looking for people whose hearts are perfect towards Him a perfected-hearted people; so there is a kind of perfection required of His people by God. A friend of mine asked me some time ago whether I believed in and taught perfection. I replied that that depended
upon what he meant by the term “perfection.” If he meant absolute perfection, I did not; nor did I believe in the possession by men of angelic perfection; nor yet in their realizing such perfection as Adam must have originally possessed. God alone is absolutely perfect in all His attributes, and to such perfection we can never hope to attain. Then there is a perfection possessed by the angels, which we shall never have in this world. Adam also had certain perfections of body and mind which are out of our reach. There is, however, a perfection which we are given to understand God requires in us. It is a perfection not of head
but of heart; not of knowledge, but of goodness, of humility of love, of faith. Such a perfection God desires us to have, and such a perfection we may have. In saying this I cannot be accused of being a crank or a fanatic, for I am proclaiming only the plain, simple truth as it is revealed in God’s word, and we ought to desire to rise up to all the privileges God has conferred upon us.

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect,” said Jesus (Matt. v.48).

What sort of perfection is this which we are to possess? God is a Spirit; we are simply men and women. And further, “No man hath seen God at any time” (John i. 18). How then are we to know what that perfection is which He requires of us – a perfection which it is possible for men and women to manifest? In this, Jesus is our pattern. It is true that no man hath seen God at any time,” but the only begotten Son ..... He hath declared Him” (John i. 18) – that is, manifested the Father’s nature and perfections in a human life which we can see and understand. This perfection of heart, of purity, of goodness, was seen in Jesus in several particulars, and in these we are to follow His example.

First: We are to be perfectly submitted to God.We are to come to the place where we no longer fight against God’s will; where we do not complain, nor talk back, nor resist, but yield in perfect submission to all His will. In the terrible General Slocum disaster in New York Harbour some years ago, almost all the mothers and children of one church lost their lives. The next Sunday the bereaved fathers and husbands came to the church, and the pastor, who had lost his whole family, rose and said, “The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord “(Job i. 21). These men were perfectly submissive to God in their hearts, and they did not fail God in the hour of their suffering and trial, and fight against His providences. It is possible to be submitted to God in this way. We may not understand God’s providences, but we can say “Amen” to them from our hearts.

Second: Like Jesus, we may perfectly trust God. We may possess a confidence in God that holds out in ways which we do not understand, like the confidence that a very little child has in its parents ; that will trust with all the heart. Job was rich, prosperous and happy. Then trouble came. He was afflicted, he lost his children, he lost his property, and his herds were carried off by marauders. And what did Job do? He did not complain and blame God, but said, “The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.” And when his backslidden wife advised him to curse God and die, Job defended God’s way and said, “Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? Shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil?” And “in all this did not Job sin with his lips” (Job ii. 10). Then his friends tried to shake his confidence, and Job – afflicted, full of pain, poor, and bereaved of his children – seemed to be forsaken by God; but he looked up from his ash heap and exclaimed, “Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him” (Job xiii. 15).

It is always so with the perfect-hearted man. I want my friends to trust me, and if they failed to do so when I was out of their sight it would break my heart. So God wants us to trust Him where we cannot see Him. Paul and Silas, on one of their missionary journeys, were arrested and placed in one of those loathsome Roman prisons – in the inmost, wet, slimy, foul dungeon – with the wounds on their backs from the scourging they had just received gaping wide, and with their feet in the stocks. But they did not worry and complain and determine to go home when they were released. They sang and praised the Lord. That is the kind of spirit God wants His people to possess ; a spirit that will rejoice with a perfect trust in Him under adversity.

Third: God desires His people to be perfect in love; to love Him perfectly. We are not expected to love God with the heart of an archangel, for we are only poor humble men with limited power to love, but God does expect us to love with all our hearts – with all our power to love. The little child is to love with all its power; and as the powers develop and grow, our love is to develop and grow apace with our power to love; but we are always to love with all the heart.

Fourth: There must be perfect loyalty. Love is not an emotion – a happy feeling; it is not something on the surface; it is a deep principle, revealing itself in perfect loyalty to God.

What constitutes a perfect son or a perfect wife? Here is a big, ignorant young man. He could not shine in a drawing room. He is hard-working, rough, uncultured, and awkward, and in the eyes of the world is a most imperfect man. But he has a dear old mother whom he loves. He works to give her his meagre wages at the end of the week; he carries up the coal; and when his day’s work is done he comes home to cheer his old mother with his presence. He does all he can to make her latter days comfortable and happy. Now he is a very imperfect man, but his mother would tell you with pride, “He is my perfect son.” What makes him a perfect son? Perfect loyalty to his old mother. So a man has a perfect heart when it beats in perfect loyalty to God – wholly yielded up to fulfil all His purposes. He may be very imperfect as a man, and his imperfections may be apparent to every one; he may blunder and make many mistakes; he may be ignorant and uncultured – yet God looks down and counts him a perfect-hearted man. When God sees a heart perfect in loyalty to Him, He overlooks many mistakes and blunders of the head.

Fifth: God also requires of us perfect obedience. Our performance may not always be perfect, but our spirit may be perfect. My little boy, with his heart beating high to help his papa and do what I want him to do, goes into the garden to pull the weeds from among the vegetables; but he comes to the corn, and he doesn’t know the difference between corn and weeds, and while pulling up the weeds he also pulls up my corn. When I come home he runs to me, with eyes dancing, bursting to tell me how he has helped me by weeding the garden. I go out and find that, while he has weeded the garden, he has also pulled up my sweet corn. But I see that he has done it with a heart full of desire to please his father, and that the trouble has not been with his heart, but with his ignorant little head; and, seeing his perfect little heart, I press him to my breast and call him my little man.

This is the kind of perfection God wants in us – perfect obedience of the heart. God’s eyes are in all parts of the earth, seeking for men with hearts perfect toward Him, in submission, in trust, in love, in obedience; and when He finds such a man He reveals Himself to Him and shows Himself on behalf of that man.

Now let me ask you, what kind of heart have you?
Have you submitted to Him?
Have you consecrated yourself wholly to Him?
Have you put all your powers at His disposal?
Have you let Him have all His way with you?

How anger and pride and selfishness and uncleanness must grieve Him! The perfect-hearted man has put all these things away. How can I put away these things that seem to be a part of my very being? How can I change the colour of my eyes or add a cubit to my stature? I cannot! Work as I will, I shall always fail to change my moral nature. But God can. It is His work. If we go down before Him in complete humility and say, “Lord, I am willing to have my heart changed. Though it may mean that I shall be despised and hated and persecuted, I will take up my cross; I will crucify myself. I am willing that my selfishness and pride and hate and uncleanness shall be taken from me, and that Thou shalt reign in me and create in me a clean heart, perfect in its love, submission, loyalty, trust, and obedience” -- if we will say that to Him, He will answer our prayer to-day, now, this moment, if we will but believe.

By Samuel Logan Brengle

A seventh citation is I John 1. 8: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Here is another formidable-looking verse, that at first glance seems to call for a surrender on the part of the holiness people; but with a little fixed attention, and by reading the context, the whole passage becomes clear.

In the first place, let the reader remember that John is writing to Christians, and that he has said to them in this same Epistle that "whosoever is born of God, sinneth not," and that he urges this upon them again in the words: "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not."

The question we urge now is: How can Christians find excuse for sin in the face of such statements? How can the reader reconcile these verses with a life of sin? Evidently the passage advanced by the objectors must refer to something else, or we have established the startling fact that the word of God contradicts itself. Here we read that we must not sin, and yet if we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves. What is the explanation? There is one, and one that should commend itself to any unprejudiced mind.

The Bible throughout recognizes two kinds of sin, a fact that the Churches have embodied in their creeds and articles of religion, calling one personal or actual sin, and the other inbred, inherited, or original sin. One is an act; the other is a nature. One is a transaction; the other, a bias or principle.
Being so diverse, they are described differently and are treated differently. The dissimilarity is made evident by distinguishing terms of quite a variety. One way of discrimination appears in this chapter in the words "sin" and "sins." Nor is it the only place by any means where this peculiar discrimination is observed. David in the fifty-first Psalm, and Paul in his Epistles, both recognize this difference in sin, and use language accordingly.

"Sin" stands for the inherited principle or nature, while "sins" refer to our personal transgressions. Both of these words appear in the first chapter of John's Epistle. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins." Again: "If we walk in the light, as he is in the light, ... the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
That two different kinds of sin, and two different works, are referred to here appears in the use of the singular and plural numbers by way of contrast. And also that in one case the man is in an unforgiven state and comes confessing his sins; in the other, the person is walking in the light as God is in the light. In the one, the man is pardoned; in the other case the man is cleansed, and cleansed while walking in the light. One obtaining deliverance from "sins;" the other, from "sin."

According to these facts, a regenerated man, or one born of God, has been forgiven of his "sins" (plural number), but sin (singular number) in the form of inbred sin is still left. If such a man should say that he is without "sin" ( and many are saying it today who deny sin left in the regenerated heart), he deceiveth himself. The thing to do is, after we have confessed our "sins" and been forgiven, to walk in the light as He is in the light, having fellowship one with another, and right there in the light of a blessed regenerated life we shall suddenly be cleansed from all "sin."

Thus being forgiven of "sins" and cleansed from "sin," who wonders that John writes: "These things write I unto you, that ye sin not?"

abideinhim , i love your spirit ,it is truely wonderful what the lord has done, being perfect as He is perfect and Holy as He is holy is both a command and a promise from God , the Father of all spirits. God does not ask or command something of us that we cannot do. death is never part of the work of sactification of the flesh either . Charles finneys theology is excellent on teaching the truth about sanctification. I am so very glad that Jesus has rent the veil of His flesh that I and anyone else who believes in Him , may enter in ,into this new and Living way, the way of Agape , The way into the Holiest of Holies and abide in God , Love , Agape. Fenelon said that for a believer to beat himself up when he does sin is as bad as the sin itself . sanctification can be for the time being and intermitant , and it is also represented as being forever established . 1 john 1:7-10 speaks of repenting as a Christian I do not see anywhere in scripture where sin is anything that is involuntary or constitutional . yet we have many scholars of the bible that believe that sinis constitutional, or ,in other words, involuntary ,and physical . the outcome of sin is involuntary and constitutional , yet it only seems to be that the outcome of it is death and that needs only to by Physical and not Spiritual also . Thank God we do not have to die the second death. putting on Christ, is putting on the robe of righteuosness, is putting on wisdom, is putting on sanctification and putting on redemption. our Spirits , our souls and our Bodies can be and will be preserved blameless in this life. this happens through worshipping in Spirit and truth, praying in the Holy Ghost, fasting , and meditation of the living word. thanks for your input too this thred. may everyone realize that with every command of us that God gives, He has promised and given us everything that Pertains to Life and Godliness . LIFE and GODLINESS ? are these not Perfect Gifts Given to US ? LIFE and GODLINESS ,, would a good and perfect God and Father withhold these from any dear child of His for any lenght of time and say you have to wait on them till i am ready to give them ? Or would the loving Father say i will teach you all you need to know, and provde all the support and guidance to walk with me as far as your heart is content in doing so . Sanctification is a command and a promise and a supply from our Heavenly father in this life and Faithful is He who will do it in you , if you let Him. thanks again abideinhim , i was'nt exhorting you in this, God knows where you are . God bless you and keep you tied up in Him, Spirit, soul, and body. amen

Here is another view of l John 1:5-10 by AM Hills, taken from chapter 3 of his book, "The Uttermost Salvation".

CLEANSING FROM ALL SIN

"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

"If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth."

"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin."

"If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

"If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us." -- l John 1:5-10.

A great heresy arose during the closing years of the first century. It threatened the utter Subversion and destruction of the Christian religion. Peter wrote against it (2 Peter 2:1219). Jude wrote a blistering message against it (4, 10-19). Paul foretold it in his parting address to the Church of Ephesus (Acts 20:18-35) and in his Second Epistle to Timothy (3:1-8). John hurled his fiercest invectives against it in his first epistle, of which our text is the preliminary summary. Even Jesus condemned it in His message to the churches (Rev. 2:6 and 14-16).

These false teachers were variously called Nicolaitanes and Gnostics. They went everywhere infesting the churches, denying the real incarnation of Christ and the reality of His atoning death. Their primal dogma that all evil resided in matter and did not affect the soul, was a heathen notion imported from Eastern Asia. Under its baleful influence even church members imbibed the idea that they could be purified in soul by a mental knowledge of God, and could then indulge their bodies in any form of vice . without spiritual detriment. A gross licentiousness resulted, consecrated by a false profession.

Irenaeus says of them: "They assert that they themselves will be saved, not by practice, but because they are spiritual by nature, and that, as gold, though mingled With mire, does not lose its beauty, so they themselves, though wallowing in the mire of carnal works, do not lose their own spiritual essence; and therefore, though they resort to the banquets which the heathen celebrate in honor of their false gods, and abstain from nothing that is foul in the eyes of God or man, they say that they cannot contract any defilement from these impure abominations, and they scoff at us who fear God as silly dotards."

In other words, these vile heretics taught that "a man might be an outrageous violator of moral law and yet be a pure and holy saint." It was a subtle error most pleasing to carnality, and struck a deadly blow at Christian morality. The aged apostle wrote this epistle as a defense of CHRISTIAN PURITY FROM SIN against Gnostic purity IN SIN. He says: "These things have I written concerning them that seduce you" (1 John 2:26).

There is a constant series of burning antithetical ideas, issues between the true view and the Opposite error, stated in the most intense language. John put all the earnestness of his Christ-like soul into it, because he saw that the foundations of Christian purity were involved and Christianity itself was at stake.

1. -- Then consider the text as a whole. There are six verses in all, with three antithetical or opposing ideas, two verses to each. The first verse of each pair of verses states the Christian truth of pardon, purity, and full salvation. The second verse of each pair is not a description of Christian character at all, but is a stunning blow at the doctrine and practice of these vile teachers who are seducing Christians from morality, and by their practice were uniting professed sanctity with unspeakable depravity.

Let us consider these verses by pairs, and the truth will appear. In the fifth verse the apostle teaches that "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." In other words, God is light. His children will be children of the light and of the day. They will walk in the light of moral purity, and will be without darkness, like their Father.

Verse six gives the antithesis, -- a blow at the seducers: "If we say (he meant, If YOU say) that we (you) have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness (as your false teachers say and do), we (you) lie and do not tell the truth." That is, "You simply cannot have fellowship with a holy God and practice vice as you are doing; and if you say that you do, YOU LIE." It was terrific plainness, and he simply softened it by saying "we" instead of "you," to make the castigation a little more acceptable.

Take the next pair of verses. Verse 7 gives the blessed hope of salvation: "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another (we and God), and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth us from all sin." This is the way of full salvation and complete deliverance from all sin. Walk in the light of God in faith and obedience, and He will cleanse our hearts "FROM ALL SIN" Sin of every kind will be taken away.

Verse 8 is the antithesis -- another fearful blow at heresy: "If we (you) say that we (you) have no sin (and no need of a Savior from all past sins, as your vile teachers would have you believe), we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us (you deceive yourselves and the truth is not in you)."

You Nicolaitan Gnostics affirm that your wicked vices are not wrong, and that when you practice them you commit no sin; but you are simply deceiving yourselves. You will not get rid of your sins by denying them, but by confessing and forsaking, and by praying for an application of the cleansing blood of Jesus.

Look now at the third pair. Verse 9 gives us again the blessed truth of full salvation: "If we confess our sins He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." This verse tells us how one may walk in the light of a holy God, and obtain justification and sanctification and complete deliverance from all unrighteousness of heart) . God has a perfect cleansing for us all.

Verse 10 gives the third antithesis -- another blow at the doctrine of these corrupt teachers: "If we say we have not sinned (as these seducers say), we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us." In others words: "If you Gnostics, or any that accept your doctrines, say you have not sinned, while you are wallowing in shameless orgies of vice, you make God a liar and His Word is not in you."

II. -- If now we write the first verses of these three pairs together, and then write the second verses together, the correctness of our interpretation will be more apparent.

Verse 5: "God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all."

Verse 7: "If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Verse 9: "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." These three verses are the Gibraltar of the Christian faith, an epitome of the gospel of full Salvation. Jesus has made ample provision for us to be justified and sanctified, pardoned and cleansed, from ALL SIN and ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, and thus made clean and holy. It is not salvation IN sin, but salvation FROM sin, of every form and degree. It is what we al must have to get to heaven. The other three verses, antithetical to these, are a scathing denunciation of the teaching of the Gnostics, who were corrupting the churches by teaching that people could be in a saved relation with God and yet be living in drunkenness and licentiousness. Notice how they read, and think of the pronouns as being in the second person, instead of the first, and all will be plain.

Verse 6: "If we (you) say that we (you) have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we (you) lie and do not the truth."

Verse 8: "If we (you) say that we (you) have no sin, we (you) deceive ourselves (yourselves) and the truth is not in us (you)."

Verse 10: "If we say we have not sinned (as these seducers say while practicing all sin), we make Him a liar and His Word is not in us."

Just such antithetical passages fill the entire epistle, and show to a demonstration that the beloved apostle was writing against the teaching and practice of Antinomian heretics who were teaching a salvation IN vice rather than FROM vice. John himself said, "These things I write concerning them that seduce you." The above grouping of these verses makes this Scripture perfectly plain, and robs it of all its seeming contradictions.

passerby wrote:

A great heresy arose during the closing years of the first century. It threatened the utter Subversion and destruction of the Christian religion. Peter wrote against it (2 Peter 2:1219). Jude wrote a blistering message against it (4, 10-19). Paul foretold it in his parting address to the Church of Ephesus (Acts 20:18-35) and in his Second Epistle to Timothy (3:1-8). John hurled his fiercest invectives against it in his first epistle, of which our text is the preliminary summary. Even Jesus condemned it in His message to the churches (Rev. 2:6 and 14-16).

Thanks for posting both of you it has encouraged me. The True Gospel message that Jesus sets us free from all sin has been so watered down we today think it is impossible for him to free us from sin.

Ezekiel 36v 26 "I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh."

Turn to this passage and read the entire paragraph, verses 23-28. Several things will at once impress one is that the prophet was not speaking of regeneration at all, but describing a blessing that God was going to give his people in the future. Yet here he is speaking of a great coming blessing.

The twenty-third verse shows conclusively that not regeneration but sanctification was in the mind of the prophet when he spoke of the cleansing from all filthiness, and the removal of the stony heart. The verse reads: "And the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes." This is the trouble today in regard to the Church before the eyes of the heathen is not sanctified. The reason that God does not project us in a Great Revival is that we are not sanctified, and he does not want the heathen to see the feeble type of piety we possess.

Besides this the very terms used in the passage, "all filthiness" cleansed, "all idols" taken out, all show that regeneration is not spoken of; for Paul distinctly says that filthiness of flesh and spirit is left in the regenerated; and we all recognize plainly in the converted man the idols of family, self, reputation, position, ambition, etc (that is filthiness of flesh)

The crowning proof is seen in the expression, "stony heart." This is felt to be left in the regenerated. There is a universal witness to this.

What is meant by the stony heart? The Bible, of course, does not teach that there is an actual rock in the breast, but is speaking figuratively. A stone is something cold, hard, and heavy. Has the converted man at times a cold, hard, heavy feelings in his soul? Who will dare to deny it?

It is not felt all the time. Some days the heart is light, tender, and warm. But suddenly, and at the most unexpected and undesirable of times, the stone is felt inside. The very gladness of others may bring it about. It is realized under some proposition from the pulpit. It leaps into being while kneeling at the altar. It arises at other times in the breast without any known cause.

The regenerated man who reads these lines knows that he has that stony heart. Child of God as he is, yet a hard nature is left in him or his own consciousness, and the experience of the Christian world amounts to nothing.

Ezekiel says that there is a blessed work of grace in which that "stony heart" shall be taken out. If God's children still feel it remaining, then is there a blessing to be had that they have not yet obtained; for the prophet says that it shall be taken out.

Notice that the stony heart is to be “taken out," not suppressed or kept under. If taken out, we will certainly know it. Observe also that it is God who removes the trouble from the soul; not growth, not death, not purgatory. Listen! it is God speaking: "I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh."

"may everyone realize that with every command of us that God gives, He has promised and given us everything that Pertains to Life and Godliness ."

Thank you for your post Clint. Many of us have struggled at living the victorious Christian life until our eyes were opened to see that only Christ can live this life. We have been crucified with Christ, so that it is no longer I that lives but Christ lives in us. Christ is our sanctification.

Mike

Here's a link to Marc Adams' website where you can purchase the [url=http://www.revivalclassics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BkJKRejBless]The Rejected Blessing[/url].

I saw that Brother Greg posted Brother Marc's reading of Catherine Booth's sermons from "Aggressive Christianity" too for those who want to take a look.

Sorry my time is a bit limited now, but I thought I would post the link. It's a great website and I've purchased a number of books there, including Pastor Jim's book. He's a dear brother in Christ and has preached at my church several times...

We are in the process of being perfected.

hello to all brothers and sisters reading this thred of posts . It is of great consequence to see the truth as God, our Father , calls being perfect as He is perfect, and being Holy as He is Holy . firstly there are two texts posted in this site. the first is written by , Watchmen Nee and in it he speaks of the first Blessing Christ is to the believer is Wisdom that Christ is made too us. I cannot remember the title of it . Yet within it Nee points out that Jesus is to us wisdom and only through His wisdom we can see how He is too us ,and in us, redemption, justification, and sactification. Most Christians have the concept That we can abide In Jesus Christ. Yet few believe that We are now as He is , in this world. when we abide in Him . Hebrews states the " He that sanctifies and they that " are sanctified" ARE ONE .. Jesus is the sanctifier and those, who see the wisdom in letting Him sanctify them to Himself are one . someone in this thred said we are in the process of being sanctified. I should ask; is this process half complete and you know it is becuase you are sinning half as much as you where when the sanctification process started? No this is an absurd ?. because sanctification is not a process anymore, than a child is still in the process of being Human . either we love the Lord our God with all our heart and souls and minds or we do not. i hear preachers trying to seperate the heart , and seperate the soul and seperate the mind more than the bible does, to promote thier notions of innate sin , constitutional sinfulness , involuntary sin that cannot be gotten rid of until we die and this is false.Sin's outcome is not sin itself,, The second text article that should be looked at by all who ? wether entire sanctification is attainable in this life and what it is , is one written by Adam Clark called " entire sanctification " . The Holy Spirit lead me to this article recently without ever hearing of adam clark. also Charles Finneys' view of sanctification is very clear and precise as to the biblical meaning of what sanctifcation is and How it is attained and abided in . the last thing i have to say to all who want blessings that God has for you , is that , you cannot believe , be in faith for recieving, anything that you have no clear idea of . The reason for this is because Faith IS the substance of things Hoped For . and the Evidence of things not seen. Our Heavenly Father is the God of ALL HOPE. to know that i can Be Holy as He is and that I can boldly Go into the throne room and find grace and mercy in all times of need ! gives me Hope. That i canFin d , and attain abide in a place of being filled All the Fulness of God now, in this world, Because God my Father told me i could!!! gives me Hope. Hope can and will always give and inspire faith. not one of us can have something form God we do not hope for first. May God give us all new hope to be as He is , and to be as He is now in this world, amen and amen.

ccrider wrote:
I do not see where Peter ever claimed 'sinless perfection' after Pentecost.

Peter did not claim sinless perfection but he did claim that his heart was purified.

Acts 15v 8-9 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Entire Sanctification is no more or less than the bible requires. This does mean the end of temptations or your flesh (body) it still is weak . You still have a choice in this state and can chose to sin and fall. Adam who was perfect did fall into sin when he chose to eat of the tree.

What I understand is that entire sanctification is of the heart that the Old man with all his deeds are put off anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy. That in your walk with God where you try and fight these inner feelings of anger, wrath, bitterness are taken away and replaced with LOVE.

1 Cor 13v1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal.

The heart that has been entirley sanctified LOVES greatly. The heart that has been sanctified loves God completely it loves our fellow men completely.

SAMUEL BRENGLE TESTIMONY.....In that hour I knew Jesus, and I loved Him till it seemed my heart would break with love. I was filled with love for all His creatures.

Love suffers long
Love is kind
Love does not envy
Love does not parade itself
Love is not puffed up
Love does not behave rudely
Love does not seek its own
Love is not provoked,
Love thinks no evil;
Love does not rejoice in iniquity
Love but rejoices in the truth
Love bears all things
Love believes all things
Love hopes all things
Love endures all things
Love never Fails

These traits are the what you will find in your heart once your heart is purified. You'll find that in your heart what will spring up from your heart will be clean and pure instead of the contaminated junk that pops to the surface know. With this uncontaminated heart we are in a better place and have an adavantage to run the race.

All men of God go through trails and testing and great failure this is what God uses to make a Man of God. It's God ways of getting us on our knees and to face up to what we really are. Look at Jobs life he when through the test and at the end end he crys I in Job 42v5-6 5 “I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear,But now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself,And repent in dust and ashes.” God here had done a work of sanctication and purified Jobs heart because it is written blessed are the pure in heart as they shall see God.

Many Men of God testify of a work of sanctification in there lives. There is a book and it's called Deeper Experiences of Famous Christians please read this.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Please consider this portion of scripture consider who Paul was wrtiitng to (Thessalonians) and what type of Christian they where. Paul gives us some insight at the start of the letter

1 Thess 1 v 6 And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, 7 so that you became examples to all in Macedonia and Achaia who believe. 8 For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything. 9 For they themselves declare concerning us what manner of entry we had to you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Yet Paul says latter may the God of Peace sanctify you wholly. That my friend is Paul asking for Entire Sanctification for these people even though Paul wrote such a glowing report earlier.

I would challenge anyone reading this post to go to God in prayer about Entire Sanctification and find out the truth for yourselves. My testimony is that in a time of fasting and prayer for no other reason but to seek God. That God in his goodness revealed to me the condition of my heart and that he has made provision for my heart to cleansed and purified. This desire to seek God came during the greatest period of darkness and failure in my life.

In the interim from that time I have been studying, researching, gaining knowledge about this work and through this my faith is growing. I know, that know, that I know that one day I will post on this site that God has cleasned my heart.

But please consider that there is a perfection commanded, in some way like that of God the Father. That there is a holiness enjoined like that of God Himself. That there is a purity offered, like that of Jesus Christ and that there is a possibility shown of resisting every attack of the evil one.

ccrider wrote:

I see nothing in the Bible that describes 'a second blessing' or a 'second work of grace' in this manner. Therefore I agree with Hudson Taylor, who, although not a 'scholar' who dissected the "we's" or the "be's" or the "I will's" of scripture in meticulous fashion, he was someone who fought hard in sincerity for the understanding in his heart and left scholarly knowledge to the wind. And what he sought, he found, not as a second work but a first work that wasn't entirely realized.

First Hudson Taylor speaks of a need he seen in his life.

"Perhaps I shall make myself more clear if I go back a little. Well, dearie, my mind has been greatly exercised for six or eight months past, feeling the need personally, and for our Mission, of more holiness, life, power in our souls"

"But personal need stood first and was the greatest. I felt the ingratitude, the danger, the sin of not living nearer to God. I prayed, agonised, fasted, strove, made resolutions, read the Word more diligently, sought more time for
retirement and meditation - but all was without effect. Every day, almost every hour, the consciousness of sin oppressed me"

This is what they call the Crisis before Sanctification where the Holy Spirit highlights sin your life.

Hudson Taylor was trying in his own strength.

"All the time I felt assured that there was in Christ all I needed, but the practical question was how to get it out. He was rich, truly, but I was poor; He strong, but I weak. I knewfull well that there was in the root, the stem, abundant
fatness; but how to get it into my puny little branch was the question"

Its starts to dawn on Hudson that it is by faith that the sanctification comes.

"As gradually the light was dawning on me, I
saw that faith was the only prerequisite, was the hand to lay hold on His fullness and make it my own"

Hudson is clearing stating that he is searching for the fullness (Entire Sanctifcation)

"When my agony of soul was at its height, a sentence in a letter from dear McCarthy was used to remove the scales from my eyes, and the Spirit of God revealed the truth of our oneness with Jesus as I had never known it before"

Very strong words from Hudson angony of soul he was very desperate for God to do a work in him would you agree.

"McCarthy, who had been much exercised by the same sense of failure, but saw the light before I did, wrote, (I quote from memory): “But how to get faith strengthened?"

McCarthy a regenerate man saw the light before I did. These men where searching for a deeper working of God in there life and claim to have found it.

"Not by striving after faith, but by resting on the Faithful One.” As I read I saw it all! “If we believe not, he abideth faithful.”[2] I looked to Jesus and saw (and when I saw, oh, how joy flowed!) that He had said, “I will never leave you.” “Ah, there is rest!” I thought. “I have striven in vain to rest in Him. I’ll strive no more. For has He not promised to abide with me - never to leave me, never to fail me?” And, dearie, He never will! But this was not all He showed me, not the one half. As I thought of the vine and the branches, what light the blessed Spirit poured direct into my soul! How great seemed my mistake in having wished to get the fullness out of Him. I saw not only that Jesus would never leave me, but that I was member of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. The vine now I see is not the root merely, but all - root, stem, branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, fruit: and Jesus is not only that: He is soil and sunshine, air and showers, and ten thousand times more than we have ever dreamed, wished for, or needed. Oh, the joy of seeing this truth! I do pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened, that you may know and enjoy the riches freely given us in Christ."

As Hudson saw these things they were being made fully manifest within through entire sanctification. He entered His Rest.

"As I thought of the vine and the branches, what light the blessed Spirit poured direct into my soul"

There it is the second work of sanctification. Notice how he states it was poured into his soul.

"I am no longer anxious about anything"

Before the second work he was anxious know he is no longer anxious.

"I am no better than before (may I not say, in a sense, I do not wish to be, nor amI striving to be); but I am dead and buried with Christ - aye, and risen too and ascended; and nowChrist lives in me, and “the life that I nowlive in the
flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me”. I now believe I am dead to sin. God reckons me so, and tells me to reckon myself so."

The way Hudson is writing it reads that he had another experience and since that time he is dead to sin and risen with Christ.

So there is a before and after so this is a definite work apart from regeneration. To claim anything else from Hudson Taylor testimony would be wrong.

Out of this I see a typical testimony of someone who has recieved the second blessing. Hudson says this "The sweetest part, if one may speak of one part being sweeter than another, is the rest which full identification with Christ brings" this full indentification is the second blessing or what I call entire sanctification he very clearly states that there is different parts and the sweetest if full identfication with Christ.

Today we have been taught that we have it all. Which is true when Christ died the work was finished. But the truth of the matter is that although Christ has finished the work we are not walking in that finished work.

If the church today was walking in Christ's finished work we would not have the problems in the church that we have today.

One of the things I first heard God say to me was "THE CHURCH IS DEAD" but on the other hand we have all this Christians running around saying that God has finished the work in them.

So who is right God or the Christians the bible tells us that in the last days 2 Tim 3v5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Today in church we have a form of Godliness but deny the power of God to cleanse our hearts from sin. We claim to be dead to the old man because we have been taught a lie. Mention Holiness and we are told oh that a process an ongoing work. Rubbish's that a lie from the pits of hell told by men who have not got the power of God in there lifes and seek to justify there weak carnal christian walk that they walk.

Go and look at the posts at the start of the thread where I am told that this is entire sanctification is hersey. No your a dead carnal christian that has no idea of truth.

My dear people God is about Move again when he does Holiness will be evident again in Gods people. We must embrace the cross and die to our selfs and have our hearts cleansed how because it's the only way God will get glory out of a man.

the bible says . that mans sins when he is tempted and drawn away of his own lusts, it also says that Jesus has made a way of escape from, or out of, every temptation. the heart in the bible is refering to what pumps ,or motivates all of our actions and coarse of conduct. Just like the physical heart in our bodies pumps or motivates the life within us. which is the blood. so , We as Christians have the life of Jesus , through His blood , which represents His motive to love the Lord His God with all His heart all His soul , and all His strength. All of Jesus' actions and coarse of conduct Glorified, and manifested God perfectly, that is why we can call Him emanuel, meaning , God is with us. Now when we honestly live and abide in Him, we know we do so by Loving God as He did and thereby keep His commandments..and the great Commandment , which all the others are fulfilled in , is , to love the Lord with all our heart soul and strenght and our nieghbor as ourself. Jesus said that He could only do those things He saw His Father do and only say those things He heard His Father say. and Jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no , anything more comes of evil, and Jesus said if your eye is single your whole body would be full of light , and yet if that light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness. All three of passages have to do with being sure that we know we are right in our relations with God ourselves and others, and that we are focused on the truth and not a lie and that we stay in line with whatever truths we know, and to keep saying yes to God as much as He chooses to reveal more truth too us ,in us and through us , just exactly as Jesus was consecrated to do. Hence , came Jesus' words to John the babtist before he babtised Him in the jordan river " suffer it to be so , unto all righteousness."

is a little baby born perfectly, faultless , blameless ? Yes most certainly the child is. perfection is a state of the heart or will. All we have to do is believe on Jesus the author and perfecter and finisher of our commitment{ faith ]. we are iether abiding in Jesus and thereby perfect already or we are not abiding in Him and sinning by our choice and thereby not sanctified,or perfect , while choosing to disobey the command of God, perfection is not a process. perfection happens in the twinkling of an eye, just as fast as a choice to believe does.

Is a baby faultless?

If yes, at what precise point does that perfect baby become imperfect? At what point does sin become the dominant force? Childhood? Youth? Show me the Scripture, not just interpretative theology here, because this is a critical issue. The answer here has major implications upon our understanding of sin and holiness.

Is a baby not perfect?

I'm deliberately not posting answers here, because this is a serious issue but doctrines of 'entire' sanctification suggesting utter perfection have to contend with those Christians who are justified but not 'entirely' sanctified.

Who here is perfect? Line up please... If this is the case, methinks there will be very, VERY few people who will make it to heaven finally (say about 144,000 anyone?).

Again, I'm not giving any answers, just asking some serious questions.

Sometimes it makes you wonder why aggressive atheism is on the rise...

we must also hold ourselves accountable for some of the confusion that may exist.

Very true for many things if we're honest.

Our understanding of the truth of holiness is an ever-deepening awareness of the nature of our holy God. The further we go in our Christian life, the more we see the marks of sin upon God's creation, the more we see the depth of our own rebellious history, the more we see those who reject God celebrating their defiance, the more we become aware of how wholly-other God is, the more we find ourselves hungering and thirsty after Him.

Somewhere along the line we move from the beauty of forgiveness of our sin to a growing hatred of sin (hopefully coupled with a growing love similar to that of God's) for His people. Promises abound in Scripture of how God will give His people greater depths of mercy and grace.

In truth, most of the teaching I have heard on sanctification is of the perfect-now type, along with an implied superiority status for those Christians reaching this state. But there is a lot of truly good teaching around as well, as is the case with many aspects of theology.

What is Man?
by T. Austin-Sparks

Chapter 4 - The Nature of Sanctification

While we cannot extend ourselves to a comprehensive consideration of the subject of sanctification, we are sure that a very great deal of confusion through false conceptions would be removed if it were seen in the light of the difference between soul and spirit. For, indeed, this is the key of the matter. As sanctification is but the continuation of regeneration, because regeneration is but sanctification begun, it has to be seen as in the same sphere as new birth. We have said that in new birth it is not the soul but the spirit that is born from above—or born again.

The soul remains prone to evil to the end. This fact constitutes the basis for the whole doctrine of sanctification, inasmuch as the New Testament is one big exhortation to spiritual progress by spiritual ascendancy. There is ever an enemy to holiness in man's own nature, and holiness in us is not fixed and static, it is progressive. All trial, testing, chastening and suffering lose their meaning if there is no ground or fear of failure. Enlargement has ever been, and ever is, by conflict. There has only been One in Whose nature there existed no actual and positive evil or sin.

The question of sanctification has been greatly confused because certain Scriptures have been made basic which really were not meant primarily to deal with sanctification in itself.

The Problem of Romans 7 and 1 John, etc.

For instance, we have Romans 7, and the first Letter of John. We cannot quote the entire text, but we extract the salient parts.

"...the law is spiritual: but I am carnal... For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do... I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not". "...I delight in the law of God after the inward man: but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? (or, this body of death). I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I myself with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit... They that are after the spirit (do mind) the things of the spirit... the mind of the spirit is life and peace... But ye are... in the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you... If Christ is in you... the spirit is life because of righteousness... If by the spirit ye do mortify the deeds of the body ye shall live" (Rom 7,8).

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us". "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive... If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us". "Everyone that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness". "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him". "He that doeth sin is of the devil". "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin, because his seed abideth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is begotten of God". (1 John 1:8,9,10; 3:4,6,8,9).

On the face of it, these last Scriptures appear to present a contradiction of the first magnitude, but as the Word of God cannot contradict itself there must be some way in which they are all true.

But first let us repeat that these Scriptures were not written in the first instance in connection with sanctification. Romans 7 was written in relation to justification and deliverance from the law. 1 John was written in relation to a true and a false Christianity, the genuine new birth, and the claim of some to be Christians. The two categories are represented by two clauses or phrases: "We know"; "He that saith". One indicates living experience, the other the unsubstantiated claim. Apostasy was in view with John.

But in both cases one thing is common; it is the nature of the new birth and its outworking in life afterward. Sanctification comes up as one with regeneration in nature, but as the issue and progressive outworking of regeneration. We cannot therefore read Romans 7 without going on into Chapter 8, and we cannot read 1 John without noting all of its governing words, such as "walk", "abide", "practise". We will touch that again.

The Place in Experience of Romans 7

We must first of all place this chapter. To what part of man's history or experience does it belong? Is it the experience of one who has no inward work of the Holy Spirit, or is it that of one who has been spiritually quickened? We think that it is the latter. There are several reasons for this conclusion. Firstly, the letter was written to believers, amongst whom were Jewish converts whose clean cut with the law had not been made, and who, on the one hand, were in a state of unsettled and restless or uncertain spiritual life, really neither one thing nor the other as to daily experience, failing and repenting, failing and repenting in monotonous repetition, and almost despairing of victory; and, on the other hand, needing further enlightenment and instruction as to what being "in Christ Jesus" really means. They were not in liberty or deliverance because of an inadequate apprehension of the death and resurrection of Christ; that is, of its representative aspect as in addition to its substitutionary. Secondly, Paul, having already stated what identification with Christ really means (Chapter 6), goes on to show that its result is to draw a line between the flesh and the spirit in the believer, and makes the demand that the "walk" shall be in the spirit. Failure to do this always produces the state set forth in Chapter 7. It was a condition not uncommon amongst Christians even in New Testament times, as see 1 Corinthians and Galatians, and which drew out the mass of New Testament writings.

The Effect of Spiritual Awakening

Thirdly (and this is a fairly strong point) writing many years later the Apostle said that in his unregenerate days his position as to the righteousness which is of the law was "found blameless" (see Phil 3). He puts himself into Romans 7 and there says that the law was too much for him; it smote him; it slew him; he could not stand up to it. Under its burden he cried "O wretched man", not "found blameless". Something must have happened to disturb his complacency and make him such a divided man with civil war raging within. In the unregenerate man conscience was hiding behind the ritual and observance of the law. Rigid observance of its forms and rites made conscience play deceiving tricks; saying peace, peace, when there was no peace. But when the time of spiritual awakening comes, this kind of thing can go on no longer. It cannot play deceit any more, and, while there may be some flirting with sin on the part of the soul, the awakened and quickened spirit hates and loathes its own soul and calls a spade a spade—that is, calls sin sin! Instead of treating the ceremonial law as an offset to the moral, it sees that the latter is the important one, and that "to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams" (1 Sam 15:22).

Two Possible Evils—Romans 7, or Antinomianism

Unless the meaning and value of the death and resurrection of Christ is known, and the truth of identification by faith therewith, one of two terrible things will follow. Either there will be a history such as is set forth in Romans 7, a history of struggle, longing and defeat: fear of going back on faith in Christ, and yet deep disappointment with the Christian life: leading ever nearer to despair and gloom; or else there will set in that terrible, conscious-searing, spirit-deadening evil known as antinomianism. It might be useful to state here what that doctrine is. The word is—anti, against, and nomos, law. The term was first used by Luther as a designation of the followers of John Agricola, who maintained that the moral law was not binding, as such, upon Christians. But the thing itself existed long before Luther's time or the name given to it. From the earliest Christian times, there have been those who have denied that the law was of use or obligation under the Gospel dispensation. It would appear from several passages in the New Testament (Rom 3:8,31; 6:1; Eph 5:6; 2 Peter 2:18,19), that the principle was at work even in Apostolic times, for in those passages the Apostles warn their converts against perversions of their teaching as an excuse for licentiousness. At the heart of this doctrine there lies a mistaken interpretation of the doctrine of justification by faith. Some have in the past even taught that, being spiritual, their nature could not be corrupted, whatever their moral conduct might be; or that an elect person did not sin even when he committed actions in themselves evil.

Now, no one would sponsor such a doctrine deliberately, but the principle may operate all the same. Justification by faith: having finality and fullness of perfection in Christ: Final Perseverance, i.e. once in grace always in grace: and suchlike beliefs, can—strange to say—produce a hard and legal kind of Christianity if wrongly held, and result in many things which may be either positively evil, questionable, or other than according to the graciousness of Christ.

Two Doctrines of Sanctification

From the Scriptures it is possible to frame two mutually exclusive doctrines of sanctification. One is that our sanctification is in Christ Jesus, complete and perfect, and, having taken Him as our holiness objectively, we must just trust that He answers for us in all Divine demands and requirements. We in ourselves are not holy, and it can only be contrary to faith, and an unhealthy introspection or subjectivity, if we become intensely occupied with the matter of personal holiness. We must believe that His Cross has done something which holds good in the sight of God in spite of our state, and "looking unto Jesus", or the attitude of faith, is the way, and the only way, of deliverance from despair or unrest. We have no hesitation in saying that such is a mixed and indefinite position. It uses certain glorious truths to obscure other equally glorious truths. This is a position which makes it necessary for those who hold it to keep ever on their guard lest their defences are broken down. They are always having to go round to see if their position is intact. It really does not settle the question when they either fall into sin and its resultant shame, or meet another and more desirable position in teaching, or those who have it. They know that they cannot accept an alternative position which to them goes to the other extreme, and so they have to dig themselves into that which is not perfectly satisfactory.

The other doctrine is that which, with varying forms of words and phraseology, and minor shades of differences, means that sanctification is the rooting out, eradication, cleansing, destroying of all sin, so that a sanctified person does not sin, and cannot sin; the sin nature has been fully dealt with. To those who hold this view, sanctification—in this sense here mentioned—is an act, a conclusive experience at a given moment, just as is new birth; and it is to be taken as such by faith.

Here, again, we have to say that there is mixture and a position which has brought a very great number of believers into confusion and despair. We say that both of these positions have Scripture used for their support, and when you look at the Scriptures, on the face of them, there seems to be such support.

The passages cited from John's Epistle appear to present a contradiction:

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us".
"He that doeth sin is of the devil".
"Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him".
"Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not".
"Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin:… he cannot sin".

These words must be regarded as all addressed to Christians. This seems proved by Chapter 1:7: "If we walk in the light... the blood of Jesus his Son cleanseth (Gk., cleanses, or is cleansing; present active tense) us from all sin".

Here, then, is the position. A child of God has to walk in the light, confess his sins, acknowledge sinfulness, and, as he does so, the Blood keeps on cleansing. At the same time "He that doeth sin is of the devil", and "Whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither knoweth him". And yet, again, at the same time "Whosoever is begotten of God doeth no sin...he cannot sin".

The usual way through the apparent dilemma is to correct the translation, and this is certainly a help; but it does not give anything like a final clearance. Let us get the help that lies in that course by trying to retranslate the passages more accurately and literally. The reader of the English will understand that different Greek words are used for one common English word in certain places, and certain Greek words mean more than the English word employed for them.

(1 John 2:29) "Everyone that practiseth (or, is practising) righteousness is begotten of him".

(1 John 3:4) "Everyone who practiseth (or, is practising)* iniquity practiseth lawlessness".
*FOOTNOTE: A.T. Robertson says: "The present active principle (poion) means the habit of doing".

(1 John 3:6) "Whosoever abideth in him does not wander from (or, miss) the right path" ("sinneth not", Gk. harmartano = to miss the mark or the right way). Or, "Whosoever abideth in him is not missing the mark".

(1 John 3:7) "He that doeth (or, is practising) righteossness is righteous".

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever hath been born of God is not practising sin (or, is not missing the mark) because a seed of him abideth in him and he cannot be practising sin" (moral aberration).

The help given by a knowledge of the actual words employed lies mainly in the word 'practise' as representing both an habitual course and a present—ever-present—conduct.

The Real Key to Sanctification

But all this does not settle the whole matter. We therefore submit that the key to this dilemma is the difference between soul and spirit. We have said that what begins in regeneration proceeds in sanctification. The carry-over of the atonement as a sanctifying power is thus: there is in the born-again spirit a striving after holiness as well as a new desire for the Lord. When the spirit is renewed and quickened, something happens. That spirit itself is that in man which is the image or likeness of God (spirit). It has been dead—that is, it has been severed from its life in God, and has ceased to function in any Divine way. The Holy Spirit, in virtue of the atonement, first renews it by cleansing and quickening, and also imparts Divine life (eternal life) in Christ to it, thus making it one in nature and fellowship with God. The spirit, when thus dealt with, is that seed or has that seed of God which is said by the Apostle to be unable to practise sin—"cannot sin". This new 'inner man' cannot be committing or practising sin. The dilemma of many is that there are two natures and two springs of life in believers. One gives forth sweet water and the other bitter, and the Bible says that a fountain cannot do this. "Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?" (Jer 13:23). Therefore there must be two fountains.

The soul, which is the fountain of the natural life, is poisoned and impure. It is ever prone to evil, like the "flesh" in it. The soul is that which has to be continually subdued, won and eventually saved (Heb 10:39, etc.).

The renewed spirit is prone to good; its course is naturally upward. The life in it makes it gravitate to its source—God. It judges and condemns all the motions of the flesh. It strives, as energized by the indwelling Holy Spirit, to make the whole man go Godward. Its nature is Divine, although it does not become the Divine Person. It is here that "there is a new creation" (2 Cor 5:17), and that which "is being renewed... after the image of him that created him" (Col 3:10).

As we have pointed out elsewhere, this is all a deeper reality than the life and motions of the soul, and registers itself continually against ourselves in the natural. There are stages in spiritual experience, more or less pronounced in different cases for certain reasons. The first phase may be a great and overflowing joy, with a marvellous sense of emancipation. In this phase extravagant things are often said as to total deliverance and final victory. An earnest of the ultimate is often given with the incoming of the Holy Spirit. He is that earnest, and His advent in the human spirit is celebrated with glory.

Then there may, and often does, come a phase of which inward conflict is the chief feature. It may be very much of a Romans 7 experience. This will lead under the Lord's hand to several things; firstly, to the fuller knowledge of the meaning of identification with Christ, as in Romans 6. Happy the man who has been instructed in this from the beginning.

Sanctification and Education go Together

Then it will introduce to the way of spiritual education. Sanctification and spiritual education are one, as Hebrews 7:1-13 makes clear. The advance in this double course is marked by the growth of the spirit. When the spirit is first quickened, it is barely able to show its existence. It is far from able to show its mastery over soul and body. The advance of sanctification is marked by a growth of the spirit. It begins to assert its supremacy, to compel the physical and animal life to know their bounds, and to obey God. The more sanctification advances, the more marked is the spiritual intelligence, power and life, until at last it reaches its coming-of-age in "the revealing of the sons of God... conformed to the image of his Son" (Rom 8:19,29). This education and sanctification is the result of walking, "not after the flesh, but after the spirit". Such a walk leads away from carnality and babyhood, as 1 Corinthians 3 shows.

There may be crises in this course marked by definite and tremendous experiences. But no such crisis is final: every one has to have an outgrowth leading to greater fullnesses. It is fatal to relate everything to a crisis or experience of years ago, and to stop there. So the distinction between soul and spirit is the true key to sanctification, for sanctification must not be negative like innocence, but positive in the sense that it goes along with spiritual understanding and responsibility. Sonship, which is all of a piece with sanctification (see Rom 8) is a matter of spiritual and moral responsibility in God's house. We are born "children"; we are adopted "sons". "Adoption" in the New Testament is not bringing an outsider into the family, but the born one reaching his majority and being made his father's responsible representative with 'rights'. Romans 7 has to do with condemnation by the law, and the big question is that of deliverance from the death which has become such a real, terrible and intolerable thing because of spiritual awakening. Romans 6 shows that such deliverance from death and condemnation, is by union with Christ's death and resurrection. Romans 8 transfers the law from the outside as an obligation imposed, to the inside as a power imparted. Thus, in the spirit, the new covenant is written by the Spirit of the living God (2 Cor 3 & 4).

It will help us if we get Paul's mental picture again. He had in mind the gladiators in the arena. (Remember, the letter was to the Romans, and familiar scenes in Rome were drawn upon.) When the victorious gladiator had been given the 'thumb-down' signal from the judge, which meant 'kill', it was incumbent upon him to drag his victim's body round the arena for the spectators to applaud. It was a horrible and loathsome thing, and the one who had to do it would be longing to reach the exit. Paul imagined such an one saying to himself, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from this dead body?" and then, espying an exit, he cried, 'Thank God, through here!' This was carried over into Christian truth, and the way out for the "wretched man" was "through our Lord Jesus Christ". This has been more fully explained as being through His death, burial and resurrection. So then, the death of Christ is something to be made good in a believer's life by the Holy Spirit, through faith's deliberate identification. Then the resurrection of Christ is likewise proved to be a present mighty, delivering power; or the power by which the believer, by the spirit, puts to death the doings of the flesh.

AbideinHim wrote:
What is Man?
by T. Austin-Sparks

The Real Key to Sanctification

But all this does not settle the whole matter. We therefore submit that the key to this dilemma is the difference between soul and spirit.
The soul, which is the fountain of the natural life, is poisoned and impure. It is ever prone to evil, like the "flesh" in it. The soul is that which has to be continually subdued, won and eventually saved (Heb 10:39, etc.).

The renewed spirit is prone to good; its course is naturally upward. The life in it makes it gravitate to its source—God. It judges and condemns all the motions of the flesh. It strives, as energized by the indwelling Holy Spirit, to make the whole man go Godward. Its nature is Divine, although it does not become the Divine Person. It is here that "there is a new creation" (2 Cor 5:17), and that which "is being renewed... after the image of him that created him" (Col 3:10).

As we have pointed out elsewhere, this is all a deeper reality than the life and motions of the soul, and registers itself continually against ourselves in the natural. There are stages in spiritual experience, more or less pronounced in different cases for certain reasons. The first phase may be a great and overflowing joy, with a marvellous sense of emancipation. In this phase extravagant things are often said as to total deliverance and final victory. An earnest of the ultimate is often given with the incoming of the Holy Spirit. He is that earnest, and His advent in the human spirit is celebrated with glory.

Then there may, and often does, come a phase of which inward conflict is the chief feature. It may be very much of a Romans 7 experience. This will lead under the Lord's hand to several things; firstly, to the fuller knowledge of the meaning of identification with Christ, as in Romans 6. Happy the man who has been instructed in this from the beginning.

The key to this dilemma of Entire Sanctification is the difference between soul and spirit. Austin hits the nail on the head when he brings up this point and this is how I understand the work of sanctification.

We are Spirit, Soul and Body. When we are regenerated our Spirit is born again. There is no further work needed in this area of our lives what God did was perfect.

Our Soul at this stage is the same soul we had before we are born again. This is the area that needs to be purified. This is the area where sin (Inbred Sin) still lays claim to.

The subject of Sanctification and learning is something I could agree to. When I was Born Again I learnt a lot more about life in a few years than I did up to the point of being Born Again.

Samuel Brengle also brings up that point in one of his books about sanctification and learning can't remember what the book is called or I would provide a link.

first off there is a difference between justification and sanctification they are two distinct words that have very different meanings .a newborn babe is perfect and faultless , meaning He knows not right from wrong and knows not how to distinguish such . The baby is a perfect moral being until the law comes and sin is revived, this is usually called the age of accountability. parents are charged by God to raise thier children in the admonition of the Lord and the First command given to all people is to Honor thier father and mother. God is not the author of Sin , is He ??? who forms the child in the womb,, God does ,, does'nt He ??? is God the author of sin??, no . when does the child get open to being tempted??? varys' ,probably a lot by His parents, would'nt you think ? Sin is not ANYTHING involuntary, the whole of sin is about Choice , that is why God says Choose , this day , who you will serve.. When does a child learn about servitude ? , probably depends on a number of relations in his life . I am glad you are seeking Truth , asking serious questions . The bible never contradicts itself , yet the way it is interpreted sure contradicts and confuses many of the bibles teachings . The bible fits us perfectly and we therefore can fit the bible perfectly , and with the proper expounding, believing of, and continued abiding in truth, we will be free, and this Freedom Is a perfect Law of Liberty .The law of the Spirit sets us free from the law of sin and death . How free is free ?? e asking how free is free is like asking how perfect is perfect, once i am free is getting free still a process then ? No this could not be. So , once that i have decided to Love the lord my God with all my heart soul and body as long as i honestly do this , i am sanctified , Holy , perfect as he is perfect. now i know there is cleansing in heart soul and body . I know this is by Jesus blood [ life ] . Yet He gave His life 2000 years ago that i may now Choose this day to take by faith what He has been made for me , which is wisdom, righteousness, redemption , and sanctification . sanctification means , set apart for His holy purposes, it means truly chooseing to Live " UNTO ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS " with our hearts ,souls and minds. it also means choosing wisdom , with all our hearts souls and minds. it means choosing all that Jesus ,is was , and evermore shall be with all our hearts souls and minds .. this leads me to be very saddened and stirred in prayer that the Questions are backwards!!! the question should be who does not know that we are commanded to Be perfect and holy as He is perfectly and Holy. who does not know that there are perfect people out there in this world that love the lord thier God with all that is in them. that live Holy and blameless before God thier maker IN THIS WORLD that are Cleansed by the Living Blood of Jesus, the king of kings and Lord of Lords . We can odey and trust God perfectly , all He requires of us is to do what we know He would have us do and that is to reach out and take His hand everywhere He cheers us on to , and to abide in all of Jesus that the Holy Spirit has revealed to us ... If you are really hungry to have excellent theology that will make straight many paths . read Charles Finney sytematic theology. learn it study it , go over it take a year if you need to, to know what God requires is not hard at all. It is letting Him kill us before He revives us , that is a stumbling block to finding this perfect life that is Jesus. Having the mind of Christ , is simply yielding too God our Father as Jesus Did, when we choose this we are one with the sanctifier and perfect as God calls it , and this is in spirit ,in soul , and in body, no matter how man tries to say it is not so. I am happy to know that many are perfect in God, by God and for God. This perfection that God requires and calls us to and gives grace each day to walk in , is called the new and living way, in the book of hebrews and it is called the walk of the spirit in galatians , the opposite of walking in , or a minding of the flesh. It is impossible to be partly obedient and partly disobedient at the same time. a new born babe in Christ will desire the milk of the word of God because He has a new life and He wants nothing more than to be nourished in it , and to walk it out and give it forth to others . A new born baby in the natural cries out for milk , the sincere milk of the living word is that which reveals too all mankind that we can truly live by the command and recieve the promise given by God to" BE ye Holy as I am Holy and be ye perfect as I am Perfect. Blameless before our maker . The bible does not say we are becoming perfect anywhere in it. It does not saythat Jesus was becoming perfect iether. yet, the bible does say that He learned obedience by the things He suffered. He was always perfect before He ever suffered anything.His being perfect was not from the outside in . it was from the inside out. His sufferings show us how great a hope we have in Him. this is why paul wanted so much to know Him , in the power of His ressurection and the fellowship of His sufferings . ressurection life and the sufferings that come from walking in Jesus are the hallmarks of one who is sanctified , set apart , wholly Gods own. One that can have much meat, ever doing the will of God . This is Perfection and it is attainable in this world and in this life we have in it.