I just read a tract that said we have heard a lie that God loves the sinner but hates the sin, but it said the scriptures says that God hates the sinner and the wicked. I also heard Paul Washer say the same thing. So the love that it says in the Bible, what is it exactly?
Maybe, because He is God, He can do both! At the same time!! I'm used to thinking of "love" and "hate" as opposites. Maybe they are not, but, rather, two sides of the same coin. I heard it said once that the opposite of love and hate is indifference. Just some stuff to think about.
Seeking Him
Well the question is can God love you and still send you to hell?
Ray Comfort made a good point. He said that on Judgement Day, God's not going to punish your sin and send it to hell while you go to heaven.
Praise Yahshua!!
Ps 5:4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, Nor shall evil dwell with You.
Ps 5:5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.
Ps 5:6 You shall destroy those who speak falsehood; The Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.
Ps 7:11 God is a just judge, And God is angry with the wicked every day.
Lu 13:3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.
To: Bible4Life
The believer, who is born again, is one who believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that He came to this earth as a sacrifice, as a sinless substitute, to shed His blood and die on the cross in our place and take on our sin, as well as the sin of all humanity, from the beginning of time to the end of time, and that He rose from the dead in a body of flesh and bone, in a glorified body, on the third day, and now sits at the right hand of the father, making intercession for us.
If we are saved, we believe that Jesus paid the price for our sins, and our sin is not counted against us.
What the problem is, at least it was mine in the beginning, each day we all sin by thought or deed after we are saved. I used to go to Church, and come forward each week, to say the sinners prayer again, because I had sinned during the past week.
I finally figured it out. The Bible tells us in Amos 3: 3"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Then I found 1 John 1:8-10
8.If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9.If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
However, since we still have these bodies of flesh and blood, we will continue to sin, by thought and deed. However, our sins are already forgiven because of Christ's work on the cross, so we will not end up in hell. But when we sin, we must pray for forgiveness, and we are told in 1 John 1:9 that "if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" .
That is how we are walk to with Him, in total submission to His will.
We will not be like Him until the rapture, until we get our glorified bodies, resurrected bodies, just like His. Now, we look through a glass darkly, but then, at the rapture, we will see Him face to face, and we will be like Him. (1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.)
1 Cor. 15:50
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Once we are saved, we start our lifetime walk with Jesus Christ as our Lord. We are no longer in control of our life. We have opened the door, and asked Him into hearts, and stepped down from the throne that we used to sit on (in our hearts), and have given it to Jesus Christ, and we have taken His cross, and are impailed upon it.
That is the Christian walk. We are forgiven. Eventhough we continue with our sin nature, and sin by thought or deed. Christ took all of our sin upon Himself at the tree.
At the first tree, the first man, the "first" Adam sinned, and humanity inherited his sin nature. At the last tree, Jesus Christ, God Almighty, the "Last" Adam was crucified and became sin for all of those that believe on him.
John 6:28-29 tells us about the WORK we are supposed to do to become saved:
28. Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Sincerely,
Walter
bible4life wrote:
I just read a tract that said we have heard a lie that God loves the sinner but hates the sin, but it said the scriptures says that God hates the sinner and the wicked. I also heard Paul Washer say the same thing. So the love that it says in the Bible, what is it exactly?
So Gods love to us is that he sent his son to die and that he has gave us life and keeps us living. But he does not love us while we our sinners, he actually hates us because of our works, does that make sense.
Hi bible4life...
No, that doesn't seem to make sense. Why?
bible4life wrote:
So Gods love to us is that he sent his son to die and that he has gave us life and keeps us living. But he does not love us while we our sinners, he actually hates us because of our works, does that make sense?
[b]Romans 5:8
[b]John 3:16
[b]I Timothy 1:15
[b]I John 3:16
[b]II Peter 3:9
[b]Romans 8:38-39
[b]I John 4:9
:-)
So does he hate sinners or just their works? What does brother paul washer mean then? If we our not saved then we our known as the wicked and the sinners and god haters our we not, so explain in what sense does God love us and hates us? His love must be different than our love.
God loves His creation. God hates sin. After Adam turned from God and sinned, he took on the nature of Satan and became a liar and a theif - thereby becoming an enemy of God.
In sending Christ, God provided us with a cloak as a covering for sin. But we must first see, and then confess (agree), that we are sinners (liars and thieves) before we can put on the cloak as a covering for our sin.
Consider if you had a child that was kidnapped and brainwashed by someone that was your enemy, and that child went around killing others that you loved. While you would still love this child, you would hate what he had become. You would both love, and hate, the child.
bible4life wrote:
So does he hate sinners or just their works? What does brother paul washer mean then? If we our not saved then we our known as the wicked and the sinners and god haters our we not, so explain in what sense does God love us and hates us?
God's love and hate is not divided between sinners and non-sinners, for there simply are none of the latter. God's love is divided between those who are His people (elect) and those who are not (non-elect).
I wrote this on the topic, and hope it will answer your questions.
http://www.theinvisiblechurch.ca/edify/What_is_Love.html
bible4life wrote:
His love must be different than our love.
Great statement! Yet we must be congnizant of the fact that love as defined in the Bible is only of one kind. The problem lies in humanity's faulty definitions of it.
Old Joe
**edited for clarity**
To understand both the heart of God and our view of sinners we need look no farther than the example of Jesus on the Cross and Steven when He was being stoned.
It is the attribute of one filled with the Holy Ghost, having had the love of God poured out into their hearts by the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5), that can say with conviction, "Lord lay not this sin to their charge" or again "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."
There is [u]no greater
The Pharisee cannot balance God's love and justice in his/her heart because the love of God has not been poured out into it. So they blindly condemn sinners apart from the revelation of God's love.
Hi bible4life...
I think that it isn't just that HisHis love must be different than our love.
If God does [u]hate[u]love[u]is[i]love our enemies[i]For God so loved the world
Whereas the word "hate" or "hated" appears 178 times in the KJV of Scripture, but only a very few of those (like four or five) are in reference to the "hate" of God. Yet, on the other hand, the word "love" or "loved" appears at least 477 times -- with many of those in reference to God's love.
I suggest that, before we go about preaching on the "hate" of God, we fully understand what we are talking about. In a quick Google search, I found scores of websites that literally teach, preach and even publish "Gospel" tracts (kindof funny to call them "Gospel" or "Good News") about God's HATE for people. I fear that this attempt is akin to making a "doctrine out of a molehill."
What is the "good news?" It isn't that God hates men. It is that God LOVES all men -- including fallen men -- enough to have DIED for them.
:-(
Thus, if God does indeed feel some semblance of "hate" for a person -- it is not an Earthly type of hate or a Calvinistic sense where we try to equate it with those who are not "predestined." God's love is for ALL mankind. "For God so loved the world..."
Chris, it may be a bit much for you to make such bold statements considering "Calvinists" (of which I am not one) can not offer a Biblical reply due to the new forum rules :/
There is no greater example of being full of the Holy Ghost than this. This is the apex of Spirituality. Any other approach or attitude to sinners is akin to the Pharisees that took the woman taken in adultery. It is the heart of the Pharisee that wants to tell a sinner that God hates them. It is the heart of a Pharisee that wants to expose a sinner for public shame and humiliation. It is the heart of a Pharisee that desires that sinners be punished with lashings and groanings and weepings, etc
Robert, I do not wish to contradict anything you have written, but do hope to balance it out though. (Much like when we were talking about repentance preaching brother) Given our apostate church age marked primarily by cheap grace and a false love gospel, one could easilly walk away from your comments believing that those preaching Gods wrath, judgment, and hatred are all pharisees or loveless. Since this young generation of believers have a greater influece of the emergent and seeker sensitive movements then they do the revivalists, or the whole council of the word of God for that matter, it would be very easy for a young person to walk away strengthened in a lie, which I do not believe anyone here wants. You said it is the heart of a pharisee that wants to tell a sinner that God hates them. I do not believe you meant that as an absolute statement, but in context it could be read that way. What I mean is that I have heard Ravenhill, Washer, Edwards, etc all tell sinners that God hates them. That does not make them pharisees, as I believe them all men of prayer and tears. Again, I don't think you meant that but it could read that way.
Anyway, the sterotype you portray is definately true of some, just look at most of our campus street preachers, but the brothers I personally know preaching these things are the most prayerful and tearful that I have met. I remember hearing of Jonathon Edwards daughter upon being confronted with her dads "lovelessness" in the pulpit replying "if you heard him weeping at home like I do you wouldn't say such things". (paraphrased).
With that, I wanted to post something by Edwards. Since this is taken from a revival sermon on this website I felt it ok to post. This was one of the most effectual sermons preached during the height of the great awakening, Sinners in the hands of an angry God. For those who have never done so, you should read this sermon along with the "Justice of God in the damnation of sinners" which was the most visibly powerful preached durring the awakening. These sermons have been used by God to bear more fruit then we have seen combined here in our generation, they are also far more Biblical. They can be found under the text sermons on the main page. If you want to see the type of preaching God used to bring about that great revival these are a great palce to start, then from there read the The Excellency of Christ. I wish every church member in North America would do this.
Edwards, sinners...
The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.O sinner! Consider the fearful danger you are in: it is a great furnace of wrath, a wide and bottomless pit, full of the fire of wrath, that you are held over in the hand of that God, whose wrath is provoked and incensed as much against you, as against many of the damned in hell. You hang by a slender thread, with the flames of divine wrath flashing about it, and ready every moment to singe it, and burn it asunder; and you have no interest in any Mediator, and nothing to lay hold of to save yourself, nothing to keep off the flames of wrath, nothing of your own, nothing that you ever have done, nothing that you can do, to induce God to spare you one moment.
Does God hate sinners - YES.
Does God love sinners - YES.
Hi Jim,
Does God hate sinners - YES.
Does God love sinners - YES
I have been aware of the passages that suggest God hates sinners. Although I am not at all in complete agreement with Ravenhill or Edwards on how they present God's hatred. I simply cannot image anyone ever presenting the Gospel in the New Testament with "God hates you, but He loves you and died for you." Clearly God loves the individual and desires that they repent. Jesus (God) rebuked the disciples for desiring fire on the head of the sinners. He told them, "You know not what manor of spirit you are of."
It is [u]not[i]deeds
But while men yet live the Gospel declares plainly that God is longsuffering towards sinners and not willing that any perish but that all come to repentance. Those passages have been quoted. I do [u]not[i]if
Moreover it would stand to reason that if God both loves and hates sinners in the same measure the result would be a cancellation of feeling and an inevitable attitude of indifference. The only other way to describe the situation is to somehow split the person up in your mind; i.e., I love you as a son or daughter, etc., but I hate you as a person. I think this is a false love that tries to justify unforgiveness and bitterness while still pre-porting to love. I can't see God taking an attitude like that.
jimdied2sin wrote:Thus, if God does indeed feel some semblance of "hate" for a person -- it is not an Earthly type of hate or a Calvinistic sense where we try to equate it with those who are not "predestined." God's love is for ALL mankind. "For God so loved the world..."
Chris, it may be a bit much for you to make such bold statements considering "Calvinists" (of which I am not one) can not offer a Biblical reply due to the new forum rules :/
Oh, I wasn't aware of any changes in the forum rules. I'll bring myself up-to-date. However, this statement wasn't meant to be controversial or accusatory. I have simply read several websites that equate the "God hates sinners" concept with the Calvinist perspective of predestination. While I am quite certain that not all such adherents feel this way, this concept was noted on many of the websites and writings that I saw.
I just think that we need to be careful on how we present this "God hates you" concept. If God does "hate," it is certainly not an earthly idea of the word. Besides, God's "hate" must obviously be filled with love...since He gave His life to die for a world full of sinners. Again, this concept (of God's "hate") is barely mentioned in Scripture. There are only a few verses mentioned anywhere in Scripture in this regard.
Are we instructed to preach such a thing? Or are we supposed to preach the "GOOD NEWS" of Jesus Christ? While the Gospel contains first an understanding of the bad news (Hell...eternal seperation from God...awaits those who die in sin), the actual "good news" is that Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice whereas we can now approach the throne of God. This sacrifice was the ultimate act of love...and not hate.
:-)
What about Romans 9:13-23?
wtninChrist wrote:
What about Romans 9:13-23?
*EDIT: The Romans 9:13 verse is an Old Testament reference to Malachi 1:3.
Quote:wtninChrist wrote:
What about Romans 9:13-23?Yes, this is one of the few aforementioned verses about "hate." Like I said earlier, this is the same Hebrew word for "enemy" used in Proverbs 25:21.
I was going to mention also that were not talking about 'individuals' in Romans 9:13, but in 'categories' of people.
God's hatred in the Bible of people is not an emotional malicious kinfd of hatred, it is more in the sense of a rejecting kind of hatred. When He says "Jacob I loved and Esau I hated" He is saying He chose to favor Jacob and reject Esau.
I was going to mention also that were not talking about 'individuals' in Romans 9:13, but in 'categories' of people.
Wrong. Follow the pronouns from Romans 8:28 on through romans 9. It is impossible for it to just be about "categories" of people. Just follow the line of argument Paulis presenting. Why is he defending GOD?
Both
John 3:36 The one believing into the Son has everlasting life; but the one disobeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
The one has posession of eternal life presently.
The other has wrath remaining or abiding.
The one is loved of God in Christ from eternity.
The other is not loved of God in Christ from eternity.
The love of God absent from them:
Rom. 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
The love of God in Christ upon us:
Eph. 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it.
Rom. 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren.
Heb. 12:6-8 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons: for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye are without chastisement, of which all are partakers, then are ye bastards and not sons.
He loves His own sheep and lays His life down for them.(In Eph.5 above He calls us His bride which He lays His life down for).
To us he says,
John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
To them he says,
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
His distinguishing love is seen plainly here in the following words:
Mark 4:10-13 And when he was alone, they that were about him, with the twelve, asked of him the parable. And he said to them, To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. And he said to them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The contrast of us and them is seen throughout the scriptures.
In hell God's wrath is fully accomplished in them.
The same them spoken of in Rom. 9:22 quoted above.
Eve was in the first Adam, given to him and loved by him.
We were in Christ the second Adam, given to Him and loved by Him.
Jesus is a Faithful Husband and loves only His wife given to Him by His Father.
May the ones called by His Name, included in the covenant made between the Father and the Son, love Him and obey Him as a faithful wife does her husband.
James 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their afflictions, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.
amen savannah
Robert said
I do not believe that telling a sinner that God hates them increases the chances of their repentance; on the contrary.
I would encourage you to read the two sermons I listed by Jonathon Edwards that were preached during the height of the greatest and truest fruit bearing revival (sorry to all of the Finney fans) America has ever seen. We may sit and speculate on religous theory all day, but there is no arguing against the true work of God. Not that this is the primary message preached, the Gospel is the message, but expounding on these truths is certainly valid also.
I believe that if our spirit is right we will weep as Jesus wept over Jerusalem and not seek or glory in a sinners destruction.
This is a false dichotomy of sorts brother, that from your past posts I can see comes from some really bad experieinces with really bad repentance preaching. Again, men could have spoken the same words you have against Edwards and the like, becuse he wept in secret and brought the wrath and judgment against God's enemies in public (before bringing them the unspeakable gift of Gods love and mercy in the blood of Christ).
Do you suppose God throws those whom He loves into an eternal lake of fire to be tormented forever? I think if we spelled out what Gods love and hatred are and aren't, as some have started to here, we would mostly agree. Blessings to you in Christ.
-Jim
2 Peter 3 (new international version)
The Day of the Lord
This speeks mostly of the rapture and just before the rapture (now or possibly the next few years or decades ish) but i bolded the most important statements...
[i]1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.[a]
11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming.[b]That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
[b]14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience [i] just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
[b]17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=68&chapter=3&version=31&context=chapter
Luke 13 (new international version)[u]Repent or Perish
1Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
[b]6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, 'For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?'
8" 'Sir,' the man replied, [u]'leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.'
[u]A Crippled Woman Healed on the Sabbath
10-On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11-and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12-When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13-Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
14-Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath."
15The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"
17When he said this, all his opponents were humiliated, but the people were delighted with all the wonderful things he was doing.
[u]The Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast
18Then Jesus asked, "What is the kingdom of God like? What shall I compare it to? 19It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds of the air perched in its branches."
20Again he asked, "What shall I compare the kingdom of God to? 21-It is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into a large amount[a] of flour until it worked all through the dough."
[u]The Narrow Door[i]
22-Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23-Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?"
He said to them, 24"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, 'Sir, open the door for us.'
"But he will answer, 'I don't know you or where you come from.'
26"Then you will say, 'We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.'
27"But he will reply, 'I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!'
28"There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last."
[u]Jesus' Sorrow for Jerusalem
31At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, "Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you."
32He replied, "Go tell that fox, 'I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.' 33In any case, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!
34"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 35Look, your house is left to you desolate. I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'[b]"
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=13&version=31&context=chapter
[size=large]Luke 13 (new international version)[/size]
Would everyone be willing to concede that God the Father's expressions of love in the Bible concerning believers is different (far exceed )than those feelings God has expressed in the Bible towards those who reject Himself or His Son? What are God's feelings of love towards those He finally condemns to Hell and what are His feelings of love to them that are in Hell? Are they comparable to His affections for those who are in Heaven?
If God loves all men equally without distinction, does He suddenly change His mind towards those who reject His Son so that He hates them after they die? If your answer is yes, then effectively you must conclude God loves the sinner who will reject His Son during the sinner's life, and then abruptly and radically changes His mind or affections towards that sinner when he "learns" at that sinner's death that they won't come to His Son and be saved. You must therefore conclude from this line of thought that God is not omniscient, not really knowing those who would accept His Son from the beginning of time. If on the other hand God hates the wicked in Hell ( at least doesn't love them ) then God would be perfectly consistent not loving those who are wicked in life if they are also the ones who would reject His Son and remain wicked throughout all eternity.
I honestly don't know that this is the answer but the thoughts do coiincide with God's expression of judgement, condmenation and hatred against the wicked both in the Old Testament (Ca nanites, Hitites, Amorites, etc. No atated expressions of love to those groups ) or to the Pharisees for example in the Old Tetament that he calls Children of the Devil, wicked, open graves, snakes with venom under their tongue, etc.
God loves his children with a Fatherly love and expresses love to those He Has always known would always be His own children. Can the same be said for God towards those He has always known would be His enemies and whom He knows would always remain so? Can we conclude from Romans 8:28 ( God works all things for the good of those who love God ) that God works all things for the bad of those who don't love God?
I'm new here, but I just wanted to add a quick, general response to the topic at large.
It's really quite simple....the verse that all of us certainly love says it all, plainly and clearly..John 3:16: "For God so LOVED the WORLD..." Clearly this tells us that he loves the believer AND non-believer. To question this inherently questions John 3:16 itself. Jesus said He did not come into the world to condemn it, but to save it. He came to save the world, not those that already believe. That was His assignment. And Jesus Himself said He only does that which He sees the Father doing, and speaks only that which the Father speaks. So God's utmost desire is to save the world, not condemn it. Unrepentant sin and man's will keep God's desire from being fully realized. The Bible says that it is God's will that NO MAN would perish. Kinda hard to dispute that one, unless you want to get into the interpretation/translation of Greek/Hebrew, etc. words.
One thing to keep in mind is that there are "levels" of truths. All of them are true, but there are certain truths that are "greater" than others. For example, the wages of sin is death. But we know that the greater truth is in the Gospel, that whosoever believes in Jesus will have everlasting life. Including those that have sinned (which is all of us) and are deserving of death, according to the truth that "the wages of sin is death."
To them he says,John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said to you.
"Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."
- John 5:18(KJV)
To [b]them
[b][color=990000]But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. [/color]
- John 5:34(KJV)
[b][color=990000]And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.[/color]
- John 12:47(KJV)
"And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he steadfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem. And when his disciples James and John saw [i]this
[b][color=660000] Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [i]them
And they went to another village."
- Luke 9:51-57(KJV)
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