Question about the military?

Brothers and sisters what do you say to a christian who wants to join the Navy?

I would say, "Go with God."

Thank you sister.

"Would you be fighting for just causes?" If so, I think you should go for it. If not, abstain.

Thanks Krispy, is just that the bible mentions that we should not stop to congregate with the bretheren. That't what has me a bit indecicive.

Hey Jim,
I don't think we have any rights to end someone else's life. A christian should not go to war to kill people, he should go to war to save them. Than't how I see it. God bless

I don't think you should go into the Navy. Join the MARINES!

I don't believe your heart for going in is to 'murder' or 'kill'. It's a job!

It's just like being a cop, or a homeowner defending his family/property.

Being a military brat, I would give you some warning about the influence it has on a believer. I know a brother who was really shaken by his 4 years with the marines and questioned a lot of things. Not that there is anything wrong with questioning, but it had a tremendous impact on his life by what he saw and was around.

I also know that a lot of service men and women are not saved and, as you've mentioned, the absence of Christian fellowship could take a toll on a person.

I would say this is something that requires much prayer and counsel by those who are close to you. Remember you do not sin in doing so (ie: not obeying your parents, etc). As Whitestone said, "Go with God".

As an aside, I have a great respect for all those who serve our country. I am a patriot, and am disheartened that I will never be able to serve our country in uniform. At least I get to serve in God's army!

whatever God tells you to do, do it. as for my opinion, i'm hit right off with two things: one, you become their property when you join, quite literally (i have been in the military before, and have brethren in the military, so that is how i know this). are you willing to place yourself under the authority of a government that you may or may not agree with their principles? are you willing to be their property? a military job can mean your superiors assigning you to do things that may or may not be of godly motives. they can assign you to do things that may or may not be against God's Word. are you willing to do those things?

now: God may call you into that to preach His gospel to the troops. who knows? but in your excitement, remember that the recruiters have a quota to meet and might give you the big picutre, and might not.

***note: i'm definitely not trashing the military, i have a huge respect for them. they are wonderful, hardworking people willing to defend a country and they really do want to protect, help, etc. so please don't see what i wrote as bashing, it is totally not. i'm just saying consider the whole picture. there is a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff that only someone who has a working knowledge of the inside can know. and yes, my knowledge is limited. ****

but most important is to consider, and obey, the Word and clear direction of the Lord. i say if you're not 100% sure He is calling you to it, don't go for it. and if you do go for it, use that as a conduit to bring His truth to everyone you meet in there.

may He be glorified in all you do!

Thanks a lot my brothers in christ. I just wanted to know what other belivers thought about joining the military life. Im about to graduate from collage as a Registered Nurse and find myself not knowing what God's will is for me after I graduate. I want to be in the place where God could use me the most, according to his purpose for my life. Well, Im gonna have to wait until I hear his voice assuring me of what he wants me to do.
I was also thinking about joining the United Nations as a Volunteer Nurse, or something of that sort.

here is an excerpt worthy for consideration:

[i]Jesus Christ forbids me to resist evil doers by taking "eye for eye, tooth for tooth, blood for blood, and life for life." My government requires the very reverse, and depends, for its own self-preservation, on the halter, the musket and the sword, seasonably employed against its domestic and foreign enemies, Accordingly the land is well furnished with gibbets, prisons, arsenals, train-bands, soldiers and ships of war. In the maintenance and use of this expensive life-destroying apparatus, we can exemplify the virtues of forgiving our injurers, loving our enemies, blessing them that curse us, and doing good to those that hate us. For this reason, we have regular Christian Chaplains to pray for us, and call down the smiles of God on our holy murders. Thus Christ and Belial are brought into perfect concord.

I see it all; and yet I insist that I am as good a Christian as ever. I fellowship all; I vote on; I help govern on; I profess on; and I glory in being at once a devoted Christian, and a no less devoted adherent to the existing government. I will not give in to those miserable Non-Resistant notions. I will not throw away my political influence, and leave unprincipled men to carry on government alone. I am determined to lend them what little respectability I have, to keep them in countenance till they see fit to reform.

The Constitution says - "Congress shall have power to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal," &c. I agree to this. I endorse it. I swear to help carry it through. I vote for men to hold office, who are sworn to support all this. What then, am I less a Christian? Is not war a Christian service? Is it not perfectly Christian to murder hundreds of thousands of fellow human beings; to ravish defenseless females, sack and burn cities, and enact all the other cruelties of war? Out upon these new-fangled scruples! This is the very way to forgive injuries, and love our enemies! If we only do it all in true love, nothing can be more Christian than wholesale murder! [/i]

adin balou

Hi hmmhmm...

The Constitution says - "Congress shall have power to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal," &c. I agree to this. I endorse it. I swear to help carry it through. I vote for men to hold office, who are sworn to support all this. What then, am I less a Christian? Is not war a Christian service? Is it not perfectly Christian to murder hundreds of thousands of fellow human beings; to ravish defenseless females, sack and burn cities, and enact all the other cruelties of war? Out upon these new-fangled scruples! This is the very way to forgive injuries, and love our enemies! If we only do it all in true love, nothing can be more Christian than wholesale murder!

adin balou

I completely disagree with Ballou's opinions about required pacifism...and many of his Universal Universalist doctrinal views too.

Like someone stated earlier, service in the military is more equivacal to service in the police. It isn't a desire to physically kill...but a desire to physically protect. During times of peace, it is easy to criticize those who serve in the military. But when it is your family, your children, your community, your country or even your RACE (or faith) that are under attack, we often change our perspective just a bit. We should all be willing to die for our faith. We should all be willing to suffer for Christ.

However, I find it interesting that many believers in nations that persecute believers are often the ones who want Christians to become involved in the process of government. If you have ever read many of the writings of Richard Wurmbrand, he was a strong advocate for believers to influence the governments of this world. While some might see this as "bowing their knees to Baal," many of us see it as "shining a light as a city on a hill." Daniel, the three Hebrew children, Esther and even Paul were examples of believers who influenced secular governments by their faith.

That said: I would definitely pray before joining any branch of the military. It isn't because of any spiritual or Scriptural prohibition of such service...but because you should allow the Lord to direct your steps.

:-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:
There are no atheists in foxholes.

Krispy

No, they're in defense industry boardrooms making the big bucks while Marines slog through mud and blood and bullets for $15,600 a year. Please read "War is a Racket" by Gen. Smedley Butler. [url=http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm]http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/articles/warisaracket.htm[/url]

hmmhmm,

Your quote from Adin Balou reminds me of Mark Twain's "War Prayer."

"O Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth to battle -- be Thou near them! With them -- in spirit -- we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

its a complex subject, we see in scripture things indicating a christian can serve in the military, but for myself i am convinced one should not seek such things, if one find themselves in the military when saved i think they should seek to get out of it. And i think so because my conviction is the sum of the teachings of Jesus and the new testament is hard to live after in a war if serving in the military. But these are things God must show us personally.

I just have a problem with how we can love someone while we are putting a bullet in them at the same time.

And about influence the gouvernment i think we have a prime example of david, it dident take one great organisation or a rally or getting involved in politics ect ect, it took one man who sought God and we read God was with david and put the pieces in place and God made daniel the man he became and put him in that position, and the three friends of his also, imagine, four young men burning for God changed a whole nation and in the end it resulted in returning to israel...

:-)

we need such young men!

i love you chris, but i disagree on much with you concerning government and a christians involvement and some other things.

but as you say, God has to direct our steps, and i hope we are willing to go, even when we perhaps dont hold such a belief, example into army or out of it. I am sure God could lead a man into the army, many souls there could need a witness, i am also sure he could lead someone out due to what takes place in a war is not suitable for a christian to partake in. My own conviction..

and i do not believe in pacifism, i think that is very unscripted, i believe in warfare, but not with fleshly weapons, we christians have the most important battle and war of all times and ages, and we fight it in our closets on our knees.

God bless you all and as Paul greets people [i]peace[/i]

The way things are going, it could easily happen that you will be asked to shoot one of us.

Hi hmmhmm...

we need such young men!

i love you chris, but i disagree on much with you concerning government and a christians involvement and some other things.

There are examples of believers interacting in the governments of their temporary citizenship. Paul used the Roman legal system to "appeal unto Caesar" and traveled on "Roman roads." He even invoked his Roman citizenship when he was about to be flogged (instead of just receiving his beating like a "good" christian). Esther is cited as being righteous for interfering in a government plan to execute the members of her race. Daniel and the three Hebrew young men were believers serving in government of a couple of unrighteous kings. Even John the Baptist interferred by calling out Herod's marriage as "unlawful."

Can a believer be involved in government? By the Scriptural standard...most of us already are. We pay many types of taxes, we accept our tax refund and rebates, many of our churches accept a tax-exempt status, many ministers apply for tax-exemption, we receive a license from the state for our marriages (both to get married and participate in ceremonies), we adhere to the laws directed by the state, drive on the roads constructed by the state, and even obtain a "number" given to us by the state. When the poor are sick, we even prompt them to go to state regulated hospitals and take state regulated medicine (like FDA-approved Tylenol). Even our food and water supply are approved of by the state! It seems like believers are involved in government...except for those who think that they are not if they don't vote, share their voice or serve in the military.

Yet our tax dollars pay for their service. We could easily defect to a pacifist nation (if such a thing actually existed in the first place). Is it possible that a man can hold a dual citizenship -- in Heaven and Earth? Paul invoked his earthly citizenship to avoid a beating. Some believers, I think, feel that Paul was being "weak" in doing this. Yet Jesus commended him to use the Roman legal/political system to take the Gospel to Rome.

One might wonder why the Scriptures called Cornelius the Centurian (a Roman soldier) a "just man." Yet the Scriptures even state that he was a "devout" man who "feared God" and "prayed always" and was even given a vision from the Lord. Strangely enough, during his meeting with Peter, we never read of Cornelius being instructed to quit his job.

I am not saying that it is God's will to join the military. Rather, I am saying that we should be very hesistant to claim that it is absolutely NOT the will of God. We should avoid putting such strong, absolute words into God's mouth...and then sharing them as such. We can always share our opinion...but we should distinguish it as such.

This brother asked a question...and it can only be answered as an opinion. The best advice, I believe, is to tell our brother to pray and seek the face of the Lord about such service.

:-)

I did not read all the responses to your question - someone else may have posted this link - but this subject has been discussed at length in this thread : https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=15338&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

ginnyrose

Far be it from me to not back up another Leatherneck when the chance arises, especially a fellow Iraq war vet (granted, I was in the second one), but I'd take issue with the old stand by "There are no atheists in foxholes."

I was in peril many times in Iraq, and thought our Navy chaplain was a weenie, although to a infantryman, most everyone is a weenie if they're not an 03. Anyway, I think most service members like the idea of God in times of danger, but its the same god the government likes to keep around, the generic one that no one is allowed to define. From my personal experience, I was uncowed by near misses, not enough to repent and trust. I was more or less fatalistic, with alot of pent-up desire to kill somthing. Believe it or not, we in the Marines do get trained to kill with the most agressivness possible, and thus our mindset follows suit. It was only the grace of God saving me in 2006, two years after I got out, that changed that mindset.

Hey Krispy, Semper Fi. Thought I'd just let "bayonet sharpen bayonet"
;-)

If there is one thing the military needs, it is strong expositional preaching coming from its chaplains, calling all men to repent and trust in Christ alone!

i had a uncle in the army n he said the AIRFORCE has better training than army, navy or marines i say get information from all . :-D

Thanks a lot for all the comments. I have decided that the best thing to do is to pray until he answers. All I know is that Im his and that he has all the right to do with me as he pleases. If he wants me to go to the Navy, then I will go; and by God's grace I will win the Navy for Christ, or at least try very hard to do so. If he dosen't then It doesn't matter, he will still lead me, of that Im sure.

God be with you all.

The difference between the police and the military is that the police usually know why their objective is their objective.

In the military, it is often the sole privilege of the high command and political upper-end who are aware of the real motives for invading this, or doing that.

If I could be confident that I was never being lead out to fight in the name of justice for the cause of greed or revenge, I might consider service more seriously, but even 20th century history shows repeated lapses in the American military to abuse its authority on a vast scale.

Google "Operation Northwoods."

By the way, two of my sisters are in the Navy. They enjoy their careers, but I fear for what they might be asked to do if it suited the desires of those above them.

Hi LiveforGod...

I will be praying for you in your goal to determine the more immediate direction that He has for your life. I pray that you will seek...and find.

Be encouraged!

:-)

So far we've been talking about voluntary enlistment, but what if you're from a country that practices conscription and/or requires a compulsory term of service?

I ask because since I attend an international church with a significant number of people from Singapore.

Here is an old thread I started a long time ago.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7499&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]This is war!!??[/url]

Hi Natan...

Do me this one favor, I watched a documentary, not two weeks ago, that so perfectly articulated what has happened to us, as a nation, its called, "Why We FIGHT". [u]It's neither right wing or left wing, its just the truth[/u]. I'll will post part 1 here, and you can keep going thru all other 11 parts. I urge you to watch this:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm1B7x5JZfE]Why We Fight part 1[/url]

For instance, there is a man who claims that there was a moment following 9/11 when the "entire world was standing behind us" invoking a claim that 1 million people held a rally in Tehran in support of the United States. He fails to mention the subsequent rallies supporting the suicide terrorists. He fails to mention the Palestinians dancing in the streets. He fails to mention the fundamentalist rallies in at least eight nations where people burned effigies of Bush, Uncle Sam and the Statue of Liberty. Yes, there was support for the United States...but it had already eroded before the War in Iraq began.

BTW, I would like to remind people that the fact that they can write freely on this website...without fear of arrest or the government seizing you or your family...is thanks to the men in military service of nations that at least partially believe in liberty. Remember, there are nations today where people would be executed by their government if they wrote what many of us have written in the past couple of days.

Our brother who initially asked the question has already arrived to a conclusion that I think that we can ALL agree upon. He is going to pray...and not do anything until receives direction from the Lord. That is a great motivating factor in these times.

Chris said: "BTW, I would like to remind people that the fact that they can write freely on this website...without fear of arrest or the government seizing you or your family...is thanks to the men in military service of nations that at least partially believe in liberty. Remember, there are nations today where people would be executed by their government if they wrote what many of us have written in the past couple of days.

Our brother who initially asked the question has already arrived to a conclusion that I think that we can ALL agree upon. He is going to pray...and not do anything until receives direction from the Lord. That is a great motivating factor in these times."

I couldn't agree more with the above. I see the military as another field where God is calling workers. I am not there yet with some of you: that our nation is beyond salvaging. There is enough of a remnant still here, and God is not into numbers. Even so, God help us, we pray.

The following link is to an authentic government document which you will be required to swear to and sign if you contract with any branch of the military for the U.S Government.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd0004.pdf

Here's some of what this document states:

PARTIAL STATEMENT OF EXISTING UNITED STATES LAWS
DD FORM 4/1 (PAGE 2), OCT 2007. 9. FOR ALL ENLISTEES OR REENLISTEES:
I understand that many laws, regulations, and military customs will govern my conduct and require me to do things under this agreement that a civilian does not have to do. I also understand
that various laws, some of which are listed in this agreement,directly affect this enlistment/reenlistment agreement. Some examples of how existing laws may affect this agreement are
explained in paragraphs 10 and 11. I understand that I cannot change these laws but that Congress may change these laws, or pass new laws, at any time that may affect this agreement, and that
I will be subject to those laws and any changes they make to this agreement. I further understand that:
a. My enlistment is more than an employment
agreement. As a member of the Armed Forces of the
United States, I will be:
(1) Required to obey all lawful orders and perform all assigned duties.
(2) Subject to separation during or at the end of my enlistment. If my behavior fails to meet acceptable military standards, I may be discharged and given a certificate for less than honorable service, which may hurt my future job opportunities and my claim for veteran's benefits.
(3) Subject to the military justice system, which
means, among other things, that I may be tried by
military courts-martial.
(4) Required upon order to serve in combat or other hazardous situations.
(5) Entitled to receive pay, allowances, and other
benefits as provided by law and regulation.
b. Laws and regulataions that govern military
personnel may change without notice to me. Such
changes may affect my status, pay, allowances,
benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the
Armed Forces REGARDLESS of the provisions of this
enlistment/reenlistment document.
c. In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed
Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends,unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of the United States.

10. MILITARY SERVICE OBLIGATION, SERVICE ON ACTIVE
DUTY AND STOP-LOSS FOR ALL MEMBERS OF THE ACTIVE
AND RESERVE COMPONENTS, INCLUDING THE NATIONAL
GUARD.

a. FOR ALL ENLISTEES: If this is my initial enlistment, I must serve a total of eight (8)years, unless I am sooner discharged or otherwise extended by the appropriate authority. This eight year service requirement is called the Military Service Obligation. Any part of that service not served on active duty must be served in the
Reserve Component of the service in which I have enlisted. If this is a reenlistment, I must serve the number of years specified in this agreement, unless I am sooner discharged or otherwise extended by the appropriate authority. Some laws that affect when I may be ordered to serve on active duty, the length of my service on active
duty, and the length of my service in the Reserve Component, even beyond the eight years of my Military Service Obligation, are discussed in the following paragraphs.
b. I understand that I can be ordered to active duty at any time while I am a member of the DEP. In a time of war, my enlistment may be extended without my consent for the duration of the war and
for six months after its end (10 U.S.C. 506, 12103(c)).
c. As a member of a Reserve Component of an Armed Force, in time of war or of national emergency declared by the Congress, I may, without my consent, be ordered to serve on active duty, for the entire period of the war or emergency and for six (6) months after its end (10 U.S.C. 12301(a)). My enlistment may be extended during
this period without my consent (10 U.S.C. 12103(c)).

11. FOR ENLISTEES/REENLISTEES IN THE NAVY,
MARINE CORPS, OR COAST GUARD:

12. FOR ALL MALE APPLICANTS: Completion of this
form constitutes registration with the Selective
Service System in accordance with the Military
Selective Service Act. Incident thereto the
Department of Defense may transmit my name,
permanent address, military address, Social Security Number, and birthdate to the Selective Service System for recording as evidence of the registration.
D. CERTIFICATION AND ACCEPTANCE
NAME OF ENLISTEE/REENLISTEE (Last, First, Middle)
SOCIAL SECURITY NO. OF ENLISTEE/REENLISTEE
DD FORM 4/2, JAN 2001
13a. My acceptance for enlistment is based on the
information I have given in my application for
enlistment. If any of that information is false or
incorrect, this enlistment may be voided or terminated administratively by the Government or I may be tried by a Federal, civilian, or military court and, if found guilty, may be punished.
I CERTIFY THAT I HAVE CAREFULLY READ THIS DOCUMENT.ANY QUESTIONS I HAD WERE EXPLAINED TO MY
SATISFACTION. I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT ONLY THOSE
AGREEMENTS IN SECTION B OF THIS DOCUMENT OR
RECORDED ON THE ATTACHED ANNEX(ES) WILL BE HONORED.ANY OTHER PROMISES OR GUARANTEES MADE TO
ME BY ANYONE ARE WRITTEN BELOW: (If none, X "NONE" and initial.) NONE (Initials of enlistee/reenlistee)
b. SIGNATURE OF ENLISTEE/REENLISTEE c. DATE SIGNED
(YYYYMMDD)
14. SERVICE REPRESENTATIVE CERTIFICATION
a. On behalf of the United States (list branch of
service) I accept this applicant for enlistment. I
have witnessed the signature in item 13b to this
document. I certify that I have explained that only those agreements in Section B of this form and in the attached Annex(es) will be honored, and any other promises made by any person are not effective and will not be honored.
E. CONFIRMATION OF ENLISTMENT OR REENLISTMENT
15. IN THE ARMED FORCES EXCEPT THE NATIONAL GUARD
(ARMY OR AIR):
I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
16. IN THE NATIONAL GUARD (ARMY OR AIR):
I, , do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.
19. ENLISTMENT/REENLISTMENT OFFICER CERTIFICATION
a. The above oath was administered, subscribed, and duly sworn to (or affirmed) before me this date.

According to this official document which must be sworn to and signed you would be taking an oath of allegiance to the state and its officers.

The christian is not as those who cried,"We have no King but Caesar",who had Christ the King crucified.

Rather,the christian has no King but Jesus.

Christ is King and LORD now.

He alone has our hearts allegiance.

His Kingdom is now, and as His subjects we serve Him as His ambassadors.

Our dual citizenship(heavenly and earthly)does not nullify our sole obedience to our One LORD. We cannot serve two masters.

Furthermore,the demands set forth in the official document above binds the conscience. God's Word in regard to oath-taking.

Leviticus 19:12 "And you shall not swear by My name falsely, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord."

Matthew 5:33-37 Again you have heard that it was said to those of old,"You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord." But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; nor by
the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem,for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No." For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

James 5:12 "But above all, my brethren, do not swear,either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath.But let your "Yes" be "Yes," and your "No," "No," lest you fall into judgment."

Ecclesiastes 5:2 "Do not be rash with your mouth, and let not your heart utter anything hastily before God.For God is in heaven, and you on earth; therefore let your words be few."

Matt. 12:36 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you
will be justified, and by your words you will be
condemned."

Read the words of the official document above.

Test all things by the Word of God.

May the Word of God which is our rule determine what His will is.

Rom. 12:1,2 "Therefore, brothers, I call on you through the compassions of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is the good and pleasing and perfect will of God."