Divorce and Re-marriage

Is there any biblical precedence for re-marriage, other than the death of a spouse ?

None.
Unless your talking about remarrying the spouse you are divorced from.

Edited to add:
Dean Taylor has a great series of articles that goes into great depth on this.

[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/May/theremnant-May2007-covenant.a5w]Article 1[/url]
[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/July/theremnant-July2007-one-flesh.a5w]Article 2[/url]
[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/1Q/theremnant-2008-1Q-exception-clause.a5w]Article 3[/url]
[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/2Q/theremnant-2008-2Q-bondage.a5w]Article 4[/url]
[url=http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/3Q/theremnant-2008-3Q-divorce.a5w]Article 5[/url]

These have been a great blessing to me. God lead me to these after He had lead me to understand this concept through much searching through scripture.
End edit:

Jason
~Who is still standing for his broken marriage and waiting upon God to save the soul of his prodigal spouse. 1yr, 10mo, 8days and counting.

[u][b]Mark 10:11-12 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Adultery is sin. Divorce is sin. Jason is correct. Unless it is remarring your spouse, there is no grounds for a biblical remarriage to another after a divorce.

But, are all our sins forgiven past,present,future if we have been saved? not that Mr. Bill is worried about this, he has been happily married for 35 wonderful years, my wife deserves the highest man made metal or honor for putting up with me for 35 years. :-P

thanks for this post , good enfo. , and well said .. Clint

Thanks Jason and the rest of the team. You guys have answered my question.

joeSOC asks,

"Is there any biblical precedence for re-marriage, other than the death of a spouse?"

The biblical answer is a resounding and a glorious - YES!.

Man was not made for marriage but marriage for man. The reversal of these leads to bondage,sin and unbiblical conclusions.

One such unbiblical conclusion being that marriage between a man and a woman is indissoluble.This view is held by some. But this is not the biblical teaching regarding MDR*.

The 5 article series posted by utilizer001 by Dean Taylor promotes this unbiblical view. The movement he(Dean Taylor) belongs to leans heavily in that direction.MDR has been a divisive issue among some within their ranks. Much harm has been caused by this teaching and has caused not a few to part with the movement which goes by the name of the website those 5 articles are found on.

Such view being unbiblical, may be called the traditional or Roman view, also known as the 'sacramental view'.

An old Roman Catholic person I know well told me that, "Even though I have been divorced from my spouse for almost 40 years now I still think I am still married to this person." This person was taught this throughout the years spent in Catholic school as well as in the Catholic church. This persons spouse left them with their children and married another person which they had been having sexual relations with. The one (the Roman Catholic who holds to this view of sacramental marriage)left with the children also remarried in spite of their beliefs. They view themself as living in adultery.

Marriage is not a sacrament as Rome teaches. Marriage is a covenant as the Bible teaches.

A biblical and therefore lawful divorce ends the marriage covenant. The christian man who compiled the english dictionary in his 1828 edition states under 'divorce', " 1. A legal dissolution of the bonds of matrimony, or the separation of husband and wife by a judicial sentence. This is properly called a divorce, and called technically, divorce a vinculo matrimonii...4. The sentence or writing by which marriage is dissolved." Mr. Webster did not come to his conclusions rashly as he was a studious man who searched both the scriptures and also the meanings of words from their roots. He also checked several other languages which had translated a word before giving it its definition.

A covenant entered into by marriage may be broken and lawfully dissolved by divorce.

Deut. 22:13-19 and Deut. 22:28,29 are the only two circumstances in the law where a man was prohibited from divorcing his wife.

"Faithful" Abraham (Gal. 3:9) divorced his wife at the command of God.(21:10-14 and Gal. 4:30).

If divorce is sin as Miccah asserts, God Himself would not regulate such cases as He does in His own Law in His Word. Even God is said to have, 'given her a bill of divorce' (Jer. 3:8). He goes on to say of her that, 'she is not my wife,neither am I her husband' (Hosea 2:2).

And God(the Son) in the flesh did not come to abolish His Father's Law either.

True it is that divorce is the result of sin.
But it is not true to say that divorce is sin.

True it is that death is the result of sin.
But none would argue that death is sin.

Lev. 21:10-14 tells us that it was forbidden for the High Priest to marry a widow or a divorced woman.

According to II Sam. 14:5 and 20:3 one may be considered a widow not only due to the death of a husband but also while the husband is yet living.

There are but two states persons are known to be in in the Bible where this issue is concerned. One is either married or unmarried.

On Matt. 5:31,32 these comments are helpful,

"With respect to the translation of Christ's answer commentators differ rather widely, particularly with respect to the words generally translated 'causeth her to commit adultery' (A.V.) or 'maketh her an adulteress' (A.R.V.,R.S.V.). The reader must often have wondered how the act whereby the husband divorces his innocent wife could make her an adulteress! As if the disgrace of having been unjustly rejected by her husband and being forced to face the struggle of life alone were not enough, must she now in addition be branded an 'adulteress'? In reply, it is generally pointed out that the statement when thus read is being misinterpreted. It must be read proleptically [i.e. the anticipation and answering of an objection or argument before one's opponent has put it forward]: she is called an adulteress because she may easily become one. Will the average reader actually so interpret the words, `Every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress'? Is not the real solution a better rendering of the original? The Greek, by using the passive voice of the verb, states not what the woman becomes or what she does but what she undergoes, suffers, is exposed to. She suffers wrong. He does wrong. To be sure, she herself also may become guilty, but that is not the point which Jesus is emphasizing. Far better, it would seem to me, is therefore the translation, `Whoever divorces his wife except on the basis of infidelity exposes her to adultery,' or something similar." (Hendriksen)

R. C. H. Lenski's translation of the phrase is: "Brings about that she is stigmatized as adulterous; and he who shall marry her that has been released is stigmatized as adulterous."

The 'Certificate of Divorce' protected the woman from such stigmatization as well as making it lawful to be married to another man and not be an adulterous.

To those who say no re-marriage unless the first spouse be physically dead, do not know the Law of God nor His Christ.

They must answer the question, "What is a lawful divorce and what does it do?, which they're unable to do due to the unbiblical Roman sacramental view of indissolubility.

May those who have suffered divorce not be condemned by those who profess Christ and say the bible teaches such confusion.

According to I Timothy 4:1-3 "forbidding to marry" is a doctrine, not of Paul, but of devils.

It is a form of penance for past sins this view promotes. God forbid we return to Rome! It is an attempt of sorts to atone for the sins of the estranged mate. It is God, and God alone that forgives sins.

Do not be deceived thinking you're more spiritual because you're holding out due to a doctrine that is unbiblical.

If you choose not to marry so be it. But do not bind the consciences of others as you keep your tradition and neglect the command of God.

You are at liberty not to marry, but do not condemn others if they do so lawfully and in the Grace of the Gospel of God and His Christ.

*MDR = Marriage,Divorce and Remarriage

Savannah said -

According to I Timothy 4:1-3 "forbidding to marry" is a doctrine, not of Paul, but of devils.

I don't think Paul was quoting this within the context of divorce and re-marriage. The point of this post is to discuss this within the context of divorce and re-marriage as opposed to marrying "the first time" so to speak, which is the context Paul is talking about.

It seems to me that there are no absolutes here. Now there might be genuine reasons for separation such as abuse etc, and this may well lead to a valid reason for divorce according to my understanding. But I still cannot find a strong position for re-marriage.

To summarize.

Does a valid biblical reason for divorce (Adultery or Physical abuse) give a bible based "Green Light" for re-marriage.

I do see a clear instruction as seen below to stay unmarried.

(1Co 7:10 NKJV) Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband.

(1Co 7:11 NKJV) But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

Even if I said it was ok to re-marry I cannot reconcile the above verses. This is my problem.

I used to think you could get remarried, after all, every pastor I know has ever preached that as long as the person committed adultery that is one reason why you can. Aren't we to follow our pastors? ("Church structure" teaches that--we are to follow our pastors, and I'm not against following authority.) Surely they cannot be wrong when they appear to be careful with God's word. Those same pastors were careful to say that you should make all attempts toward reconciliation. It's all I've ever been taught.

However, I've begun to question all my previous thinking about Christianity, including thoughts on remarriage. This is what I've seen in myself over the last 3 years: self-centered Christianity for most of my saved life. I never really heard the true gospel until this fall...and if you never heard the gospel, how can you really begin to know who God is? Nobody in church has taught me the gravity of my sin, or if they did, I must have minimized it in my fleshly mindset. I'm thankful for the Spirit's teaching, despite all this.

I see the scriptures that make it seem like remarriage is possible...the "except in the case of adultery" scriptures. That sure makes it confusing, if you ask me. By default, my flesh accepts the "sure I can get remarried, IF my spouse commits adultery" option. (I wonder to myself why God would not have been crystal clear, unless He has, and in my self-centeredness, I did not prefer it. Oh, how possible that is, I now see.)

These days I am highly suspicious that God does NOT want people to get remarried. I'm thankful to hear other viewpoints than the ones I've held previously. I mean, if you or I had offended God, wouldn't we want to know? Many will say, "But God forgives!"--of course He does; nobody is saying God doesn't forgive. But IF there are a lot of people who think other than what I think, it now makes me question my previous thinking. Everything is under scrutiny now, as I realize I've believed many lies or half-truths, based on my self-centered view of God.

Guys/Girls

What will you do if the man who God choses to led the next Move of God is married to divorcee?

Think about Hosea told to marry a Harlot.

What about David and Bathsheba For those of us who have experienced moral failure, divorce, or other such life experience, it is a message of hope, healing, and restoration that reminds us that God's agenda is not to crush sinners under his feet, but to heal them and restore their relationship with Him.

At the end of the day Christianity is not about rules or the law. We have all failed to come up to the standard that God has set we are all sinners. Jesus came so we can be free from sin. John 1:29.

But yet God tells us to be Holy as he is Holy 1 Peter 1:16. We are also told to be perfect Matthew 5:48. Are we supposed to find Holy perfection in following Rules and Laws. Heb 7:11

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We will never ever find perfection in the flesh we will never in our own strengh be able to please God we must be led by the Spirit of God.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

That we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith in Jesus.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

When faith is come we are no longer under the school master(The Law). The laws purpose was to bring us to Christ. After meeting Christ we are to go to perfection. Heb 6:1 but that perfection is not found in the law Heb 7:11 but found in the spirit.

If your reading this post and your divorceed and remarried God does not condem you and neither do I. If anyone is applying pressure on you to leave your current Wife/Husabnd because you married before tell them to get on there bike and take a very, very long ride on it.

You begun in the Spirit, continue in the Spirit.

What will you do if the man who God choses to led the next Move of God is married to divorcee?

Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God.

Miccah wrote:
[u][b]Mark 10:11-12 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

11 So He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Adultery is sin. Divorce is sin. Jason is correct. Unless it is remarring your spouse, there is no grounds for a biblical remarriage to another after a divorce.

My friends. I am leaving this conversation with this final thought.

When I go to the Lord and stand in front of Him on that day. I am confident that I will stand before Him and will be able to say that, on this topic, in this post, I stood by His word and His word alone. If anything, I appologize for sounding harsh and uncarring. If I came off this way, I am sorry.

I did not place my own personal thoughts in place of scripture. I did not place my feelings about what I believe is fair and right, above scripture. But that I placed scripture above all else.

Blessings my friends. Follow the Word and the scriptures, not man's interpretation.

Tracy,

I wanted to say that your comment on the subject was very good and honest.

I've read through this discussion and have done my best to stay out of it but after this comment, I cannot...

HomeFree89 wrote:

murrcolr wrote:
What will you do if the man who God choses to led the next Move of God is married to divorcee?

Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God.

Jesus also said we would know them by their fruits (Matt 7.16, 7.20) so I don't look to see if someone has or has not been divorced; what I look for is to see if they are humble and have any of the fruit listed below...

[i]The Spirit, on the other hand, brings a harvest of love, joy, peace; patience towards others, kindness, benevolence; good faith, meekness, self-restraint.[/i]
Galatians 5.22-23 WEY

How soon all the well people forget the hole from whence they were dug and that "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble" (James 4.6), whether they are divorced, adulters, murderers or not!

God did use a muderer ... The Apostle Paul. God has chosen the worst of the lot to be HIS saints.
But that does not give an excuse to go ahead and comit a murder or sin in any way.
We will regret if we give in to our longings and not take up the cross and die.
Often our question is "is this right or wrong?" and not "what should I do?" And we know when we have asked a question and we are looking for a specific "answer". And we will ask till we get it, almost like Baalam.
Jesus told us to love our wives as Christ has loved the Church, i.e me and you. Have I not played the harlot? Have i not failed HIM miserably.
When I ran away from the Lord, in all love He persuaded and called after me, but He did not force me. But waited in hope and love that I would turn back to HIM.
Them that are forgiven much loves much.
Yes it seems impossible, the pain is too hard to bear, the thoughts to hard to ignore, my rights to hard to give up. O this yoke too heavy to bear.
Jesus says "come to me and I will teach you. My yoke is light and my burden easy."

O let us look at HIM and get a glimpse of what He suffered for me and you and let us do the same for him or her for whom too JESUS has died.

Vakugal wrote:
God did use a muderer ... The Apostle Paul. God has chosen the worst of the lot to be HIS saints.

I personally feel he still does use the worst of the lot to be his saints, and some work so hard at being perfect, they work there way right out of Gods use. It's like if someone handed you a million dollars at birth, how much will you know about money compared to the ones that have had to work through many valleys in life to reach the top? Personally speaking, I don't want anyone counseling me that has not been there or done that, how would they ever know how you feel?

Lysa wrote:
How soon all the well people forget the hole from whence they were dug and that "God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble" (James 4.6), whether they are divorced, adulterers, murderers or not!

This is so powerful, and so true, and I thank you so much for this statement, it has Blessed me so much, it made my day.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

My goodness, what a lofty statement. You seem pretty whole and holy and since Jesus said, "They that be whole need not a physican" (Matt 9.11-13), perhaps then you could miss it and not be a part of it - since you're so well and all. Just a thought.

No Sister, I trust there was no pride in that statement, I need Jesus as much as anyone. That truly would be my first response if there ever was a "move" like that. I would see it as God contradicting Himself.

Please bear with me. I know I am young, but this is how I see it in the Bible.

If God says that those who marry a divorced woman commit adultery (Matt. 5:32), do you really think He would use them to start a movement?

The Bible says in Romans chapter 7, "For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man." This appears to say that they are in a continual state of adultery.

Jesus also said we would know them by their fruits (Matt 7.16, 7.20) so I don't look to see if someone has or has not been divorced; what I look for is to see if they are humble and have any of the fruit listed below...

I would agree to a certain extent. Yes, we need to look and see if the person is humble, etc. However, even if they have all those fruits, it doesn't negate what is said elsewhere in the Bible about divorce/remarriage.

Edit: Check out Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

That sure would look like fruit, wouldn't it?

On Romans 7:1-3 keep reading until around verse 13 What is the context here?
Is this an attempt to convey the laws of marriage, OR is an analogy that looks back to what has already been said and looks forward to what will be said. The entire law/grace, works/faith, flesh/Spirit, Adam/Christ, death/life, etc...

What about Deuteronomy 24: 1-4
In verse 4: Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is [u][b]ABOMINATION[/b][/u] before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance. [u][i]So God states it's an abomination for a person who is remarried to go back to the original spouse[/i][/u](me in italics)

[u][b]REMEDY FOR ALREADY REMARRIED FOLKS[/b][/u]
In humility, not with a prideful spirit I ask the following question:
Can someone pull from anywhere in scripture where God labels a sin an ABOMINATION(emphasizing God's view of this sin). Only to later or somewhere else in scripture no longer be labeled as sin, and/or an abomination, even further, be said to be the correct path pleasing in God's eyes?

rnieman

I can't help but wonder if we hold up the love commands as high as divorce/remarriage. It seems we put some things high up and hold fast to them because we are not guilty of them. Yet other things we hold at a distance because we are guilty of those and don't want to deal with our own hearts. It's sad how we are always so concerned about everyone elses sins while we ignore those in our own hearts.

Seems to bring to mind a certain verse...about a certain plank...

Just to clarify; I believe someone who has been divorced and remarried is not to split up the second marriage in order to reconcile. Deuteronomy 24:1-4 states this. I believe you would have to repent towards God and ask for mercy and forgiveness. rnieman

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I think we've finally found a debate that gets recycled almost as much as the Bible version debate! lol...

Krispy

I agree...it gets tiring to see.

Especially when some people are just regurgitating other peoples convictions and making it LAW for everyone...

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I think we've finally found a debate that gets recycled almost as much as the Bible version debate! lol...

Krispy

lol I think we should go back and count... :-)

Even God gives a bill of divorce for the reason of adultery.

Jer 3 v 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

I am a man married to a woman who was married before. When I was young still at school my Mother came into my room and told me that God had spoken to her and that he wanted me to know something. After telling me what she had to tell me she was going to leave but before she did I asked did he tell you anything else. Yes she said you'll be married to a woman who was married before and has two children.

Around ten years later I married to that woman and I am still married to her. It was Gods plan do you here it, Gods plan for my life.

Is Gods hand shortened that it can't redeem?

Does God have no power to deliver?

Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me?

Good post savannah , I know that it is okay to remarry after a divorce . The bible does not exspressly prohibit remarrying after a divorce , it just says that someone is an adulterer if they do . It seems to me that the guilty party in the divorce would be the adulterer until they repented and turned from the wickedness { selfishness ] that led to the demise of the divorce, what ever that selfishness [ sin ] may be , it is absolutely forgiveable by Jesus and thereby absolutely absolving the guilty. when the sin is forgiven remarraige is allowable and blest in God's sight .

Every person is to remain in the position that God called them.

1 Corinthians 7:20 says:

Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.

During the time when the Gospel was being preached for the first time, many diverse people from various backgrounds believed the Gospel that was preached to them and were saved; no doubt some were divorced and remarried people with children.

So what are they to do? Divorce the one they are presently married to and seek out their first spouse and remarry that one. Sometimes this is not possible at all; …do to the remarriage of the other spouse or some other sin.

Paul says, in the same chapter a little further on starting in verse 26 – 28 which states:

I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: Are you bound to a wife? (meaning - are you married)
Do not seek to be loosed(divorced). Are you loosed(divorced) from a wife? Do not seek a wife.

Verse 28 says: But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin(unmarried for the first time) marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you. - This is the only place I can see a divorce and remarriage (pre-existing condition when called to repentance).

Are you married? Don’t seek a divorce.
Are you divorced, don’t seek a wife, but if you do, you have not sinned.

The point is this all goes back to - 1 Corinthians 7:20 which says:
Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.

Is it possible for a Christian to fall away, and sin and come back to the Lord? Yes it is, and only the Lord can grant true repentance.

My own position before the Lord –
I am divorced and remarried when the Lord called me, but I have not left my marriage to the woman I am married too when the Lord called me to Him. I have not sought to divorce her either because she wasn’t a Christian when I was called. The Lord has since given her repentance as well, and she too is now a Christian.

One more point, I can testify that the Holy Spirit has indeed sealed me, and I know His presence very well.

I believe that God can and does forgive a lot of sins in His church, including divorce and remarriage. This doesn't make divorce and remarriage right, or even acceptable in His eyes though. And how does one know if God will bring them back to repentance when they go out of the Lord's will? I think it shows a person's unrepented condition of their heart when they do so, and it takes a divine act of mercy and forgiveness and God's grace to bring a person back to repentance and restoration, as it was in my case.

clintstone wrote:
Good post savannah , I know that it is okay to remarry after a divorce . The bible does not exspressly prohibit remarrying after a divorce , it just says that someone is an adulterer if they do . It seems to me that the guilty party in the divorce would be the adulterer until they repented and turned from the wickedness { selfishness ] that led to the demise of the divorce, what ever that selfishness [ sin ] may be , it is absolutely forgiveable by Jesus and thereby absolutely absolving the guilty. when the sin is forgiven remarraige is allowable and blest in God's sight .

Can you back your post up with any Scripture? I'm not wanting to stir up this controversial topic, just wanting to know if you have any scriptural backing for what you posted.

If I'm understanding you right, then since lust isn't expressly forbidden (it's just called adultery of the heart) it's ok. Am I understanding you correctly?

Earendel wrote:
So what are they to do? Divorce the one they are presently married to and seek out their first spouse and remarry that one. Sometimes this is not possible at all; …do to the remarriage of the other spouse or some other sin.

Hi! =0)

This is precisely what they will tell you to do. I was told last summer that if someone gets a divorce, remarries and then becomes a Christian - they are to divorce the current spouse and leave behind any children involved.

The person who told me this had read an article about a woman who did just this, therefore they made it gospel for everyone else because of one womans conviction.

The article also stated (as I am told) that the woman never thought anything of it until reading another article about divorce and remarriage (I won't say by who). Her former spouse was already remarried, as I understand it, so she was to remain single.

I think this is a very scary doctrine to hold on to. I wonder what God will have to say to someone who abandons their family based on what a certain group holds as law, when it is just a different perspective on select scripture.

I once read this in a book:

"It has been rightly said that a person can prove anything by taking Bible verses out of context. Let me demonstrate how one can "biblically" prove that it is God's will for believers to commit suicide. All you have to do is lift two verses out of their historical setting and paste them together:

"And he [Judas]...went...and hanged himself" (Matthew 27:5)
"Then said Jesus...'Go and do the same'" (Luke 10:37b).

While this is an outrageous example of the "cut-and-paste" approach, it makes a profound point. Without understanding the historical context of the NT, Christians have managed to build doctrines and invent practices that have fragmented the Body of Christ into thousands of denominations."

Taken from The Untold Story of the New Testament Church by Frank Viola pages 20-21

Is there any biblical precedence for re-marriage, other than the death of a spouse ?

No. Based on Luke 16:18: Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Also Mark 10:11.

A child can understand this.

I assume you know as such else you would not be asking.

Blessings,

ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:
Is there any biblical precedence for re-marriage, other than the death of a spouse ?

No. Based on Luke 16:18: Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. Also Mark 10:11.

A child can understand this.

I assume you know as such else you would not be asking.

Blessings,

ginnyrose

What about:

Matthew 5:32
But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason [b]except sexual immorality [/b]causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

I understand this to say - Jesus said the grounds for divorce is sexual immorality.

Am I not understanding this correctly? Would you explain these scriptures?

Also,

1 Corinthians 7:26-28 (making reference to when a person is called by the Lord)

26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

Just seeking to understand.

HomeFree89 wrote:
Edit: Check out Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

That sure would look like fruit, wouldn't it?

[i]"So then, you will know them by their fruits.[/i]
Matthew 7.16, 20

[i]The Spirit, on the other hand, brings a harvest of love, joy, peace; patience towards others, kindness, benevolence; good faith, meekness, self-restraint.[/i]
Galatians 5.22-23 WEY

HomeFree89 wrote:
Please bear with me. I know I am young, but this is how I see it in the Bible. If God says that those who marry a divorced woman commit adultery (Matt. 5:32), do you really think He would use them to start a movement?

We get hung up on a person's sin instead of keeping our eyes on Jesus. I am not saying ... [b]I repeat...[/b] I am NOT saying "all divorced people are going to be holy, run out, start preaching and start a movememnt. No, far from it. It's exactly like anyone who has sinned, there are the truly repentant and there are those who aren't. I'm not talking about the those who aren't.

[i]1 SINCE then it is by faith that we are justified, let us grasp the fact that we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Through him we have confidently entered into this new relationship of grace, and here we take our stand, in happy certainty of the glorious things he has for us in the future.
3 This doesn’t mean, of course, that we have only a hope of future joys––we can be full of joy here and now even in our trials and troubles.
4 These very things will give us patient endurance; this in turn will develop a mature character, and a character of this sort produces a steady hope,
5 a hope that will never disappoint us. Already we have the love of God flooding through our hearts by the Holy Spirit given to us.
6 ¶ And we can see that it was at the very time that we were powerless to help ourselves that Christ died for sinful men.
7 In human experience it is a rare thing for one man to give his life for another, even if the latter be a good man, though there have been a few who have had the courage to do it.
8 Yet the proof of God’s amazing love is this: [b]that it was while we were sinners that Christ died for us.[/b][/i]
Romans 5.1-8 Phillips

I dare say that there will be many once married / non-divorced people that Christ will say, "Depart from me, I never knew you" in that great and glorious Day so those who think they stand should take heed lest they fall (1 Cor 10.12; 2 Cor 10.12).

Romans 4.7-8; John 5.24; 2 Cor 5.17; Galatians 3.13; 1 Cor 1.30, 15.22;

You asked for verses from someone else, there a few; but you and others probably won't like them applied to divorced people! So I have a question to you and the others;

Are these Scriptures only good for you and your kind - the well ones or are they good for all who name the name of Christ? (Let your yea be yea or your nay nay James 5.12)

So Christ is either a respecter of persons or is He not. Acts 10:34 Yes or no?

edit: post deleted by homefree89

I am divorced and remarried. I divorced before I came to know the Lord. If I didn't know any better and I was reading these posts, I would feel condemned and probably consider getting a divorce from my current husband. He had never been married. So he commited adultery when he married me...God's Word names many different kinds of sin. But thank God that He also names Someone who came to this world and gave His life to free us from that sin. I did not realize when I divorced and remarried that I was committing a sin against God. I was not that familiar with His Word. But God does not hold that against me. When I received salvation, I asked for forgiveness from ALL of my sins and I repented. He did not refuse me because I had been divorced and remarried. We come to Him by the gentle nudging of the Holy Spirit. He wouldn't have bothered with me if I could not be forgiven for being divorced and remarried. Why are we putting so much emphasis on this? What about a thread on lying??? Or maybe anger or foolish talk? They are sins. And there is scripture for these sins also.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
I know I have lied and gotten angry and I have fussed at my kids since coming to know my Lord. But He has not turned away from me because I have repented and He has forgiven. I am basically trying to say that God forgives us, no matter who we are or what we've done. Sin is sin. You can slap any name on it you want to, but it is still sin. There is no sin greater than another (except blaspheme of the Holy Spirit). All sin is great no matter the title it falls under. My Bible tells me that God forgives! If we ask, He will forgive. He is a merciful and gracious God. A longsuffering God and He is not willing that ANYONE should perish! Whether they have divorced and remarried or not. It's all under the Blood! Christ did not die for one and not the other. He died for all! I am not going to hell just because I am divorced and remarried! And I am not going to be used any less by God because I am. He uses anyone who is humble enough to be used. And I am not going to let this thread discourage me in anyway. And I pray that others who stumble upon it don't get discouraged by it either. I think discretion should be used when having posts such as this
because it could cause someone to doubt and perhaps even stumble in ther walk with God. Especially if they are a new believer. Thank you all for allowing me to put my two cents worth in! :-)
In Christ,
Wendy

dunlow64God wrote:
I know I have lied and gotten angry and I have fussed at my kids since coming to know my Lord. But He has not turned away from me because I have repented and He has forgiven. I am basically trying to say that God forgives us, no matter who we are or what we've done. Sin is sin. You can slap any name on it you want to, but it is still sin. There is no sin greater than another (except blaspheme of the Holy Spirit). All sin is great no matter the title it falls under. My Bible tells me that God forgives! If we ask, He will forgive. He is a merciful and gracious God. A longsuffering God and He is not willing that ANYONE should perish! Whether they have divorced and remarried or not. It's all under the Blood! Christ did not die for one and not the other. He died for all! I am not going to hell just because I am divorced and remarried! And I am not going to be used any less by God because I am. He uses anyone who is humble enough to be used. And I am not going to let this thread discourage me in anyway. And I pray that others who stumble upon it don't get discouraged by it either. I think discretion should be used when having posts such as this
because it could cause someone to doubt and perhaps even stumble in ther walk with God. Especially if they are a new believer.

Yes! =0) I agree with this 100%. Thank you for posting it.

Repentance to me has to do with the condition of the heart, and is what I am talking about.

My conversion and return to the Lord has been very profound to say the least.

The Lord has calld me, a divorced and remarried person. I am instructed by scripture not to put away my wife, the woman I am married to now, nor the children I have by her. I am to remain in the position that He called me and saved me. I am not permitted to divorce her, but if I do, I am to remain single, or else be reconcilled to her.

My repentance is true, and I stand on the righteousness which comes by faith in the finished work of Christ.

In Christ I have no sin, for He took my sin away and nailed it to the cross,
...and where there is no sin, the righteousness that the law of God requires is fufilled...thus is explained the righteousness by faith and Christ fulfilling the law.

How comes this righteousness? is by works? or is it by faith? Yes it is by faith, not by works...I am one of the elect of God and I know it, having repented of my sins and turned away from them, and turned to the God of my salvation with a pure and undefiled heart.

But He called me by election. I am grateful that I know Him and that my name is written down in heaven. And if I pass judgement on unbelief and sin, it is because it has been established already in scripture...but then it is not I who makes the judgement, but it is the Lord, to whom alone belongs judgement.

Make no mistake in understanding, Judgement is coming on the world. Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus. WWIII will be upon us shortly when peace will be taken away from the world. Billions will die in this coming war, and will be far more fierce than any other previously. The time of the Great Tribulation will follow immediately after. The days are upon us now.

Wendy,

God bless you, your testimony says it all:

dunlow64God wrote:
He did not refuse me because I had been divorced and remarried. We come to Him by the gentle nudging of the Holy Spirit. He wouldn't have bothered with me if I could not be forgiven for being divorced and remarried.

Thank you all for allowing me to put my two cents worth in! :-)
In Christ,
Wendy

Thank you for pointing this out; that we cannot come to Christ unless the Spirit draw us!! If the other opinions were true, then we would not have been drawn into His great love in the first place! [i]The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, [b]that we are the children of God:[/b][/i] Romans 8.16

[i]To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.[/i] Jude 1.25

When I meet God.

I was lying in a bed with a woman was married at the time. I had beaten her up so bad she was could not get out of the bed. She was pregnant with my child but I didn't not know it then

Just before going to bed I rolled a joint, as I lay down on the bed I put down the joint and I prayed a simple prayer "God I am fed up being like this"

Lying next to the woman who was married, that was pregnant, which I had beaten up so bad that she could not get out of the bed. I prayed a simple prayer and a wind left me and as soon as the wind left another wind came and blew into my stomach and filled my whole body. After the wind stopped blowing I sat up in language that I had never spoke before.

Truly I have experienced that amazing Grace, I can confess of how sweet the sound, that saved a wrecthed like.

Don't you people understand the love, the grace, the mercy that God can pour out on someone who turns his heart to God.

I ask myself when I read the posts on here do these people know God. The only answer I can come up with is look at the Pharisees when Jesus walked this earth 2000 years ago. How much did they struggle with Jesus, they just didn't seem to get it, they missed it 100%.

I am not trying to be nasty just honest you just don't seem to understand the goodness, the kindness, the mercy, the love, the grace of God.

I am know married to that woman, the kid she carried at the time is know 19.

Hallelujah! Praise The Lord! What a wonderful testimony of God's love, mercy, and grace! Thank you!
In Christ,
Wendy

are you saying that there is no way to divorce, as a Christian, then to remarry another , and then by that always and forever to be perpetually an adulterer and thereby not be forgiven of adultery because we , who remarry are forever destined to be adulterous and bound in this sin , and not forgiven because we continue to be adulterers. This is what your interpretation of this scripture , is infering upon all who remarry after divorce, this interpretation is lacking , and not complete in Love.

This My brother has the testimony of Jesus , all hail the power of Jesus name , let angels prostrate fall... He brings His fan with Him and thoroughly blows the dirt out . God bless you . Clint

murrcolr wrote:

I ask myself when I read the posts on here do these people know God. The only answer I can come up with is look at the Pharisees when Jesus walked this earth 2000 years ago. How much did they struggle with Jesus, they just didn't seem to get it, they missed it 100%.

I am not trying to be nasty just honest you just don't seem to understand the goodness, the kindness, the mercy, the love, the grace of God.

This whole post truly sickens me. I have never seen so many "Christians" justify their sinful actions then I have in this one thread.

Brother... you question if the rest of us know the Lord because we do not agree with divorce and remarriage after divorce? You lump us into a group and then call those who trust in the full council of the Lord Pharisees?

Look back on this entire thread. Those who would justify something (divorce) that the Lord HATES have turned on those who would honor the Lord and His words. You sit here and pat each other on the back, yet you bite at those who would council in the ways of the Lord.

Some in this thread have actually implied that those of us who do not believe in divorce are under some kind of delusion? 2 Thessalonians 2:10-13 What kind of filth are we posting here folks? Calling good children of the Lord evil?

Don't you people understand the love, the grace, the mercy that God can pour out on someone who turns his heart to God.

Yes we do brother. We are some of them as well. And it is because of the love AND the fear of the Lord that many here council against divorce.

And looking over all these posts, I do not see one person who does not believe in divorce, condemning anyone who has had a divorce, or been remarried. I see scripture being brought up and spoken about. I see council given. I see longing hearts for those who may be contemplating divorce to turn away from it. I see much. But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce.

If you feel convicted, good. Conviction on something is great AND is between you and the Lord. But to drag your brothers and sisters threw the mud because of divorce/remarriage is inexcusable.

I am lost for words...

I am sorry to read that you have been involved in divorce and remarriage. This is a tragedy for all concerned. But such is sin: it is a tragedy for all involved. Sin's effects create a storm for all who are close to the people involved, like Jonah. He was running away from God when He sent a storm which endangered all in the ship. Such is the result of sin. Every-time.

Now the 'exception" clause and how do I handle it? Did you know the wording that is rendered "except" was added to the Scriptures during the 1400s, that it does not appear in any of the New Testament manuscripts prior to 1000? Did you know the early church never allowed divorced and remarrieds in their brotherhood? (http://www.btinternet.com/~lmf12/DivorceMcFALLview.pdf)

The scripture in 1 Corinthians 7 deals with marriage per se: not divorce and remarriage. People came to the LORD and their spouse was still a pagan so what do you do? Paul says: stay married! However, if the unbelieving departs, you are under no bondage...Some take this to mean the Believer is now free to remarry. It does not say that. It says the Believer is not under bondage. So what does that mean? It simply means the Believer has no moral obligation to maintain that person. Let him/her go, don't pursue him/her. (I am closely involved in counseling a person whose wife left him. I told my brother you must let her go! And back off! You must get out of the way so God can work in that person's life and not interfere with it. Sad situation...makes me cry..never imagined it would happen to him and neither did he.)

Sir, I have worked at a CPC for fifteen years and have met many divorced and remarried persons. When I asked them about this situation, they either told me it was sin or they became very defensive and told me they asked their pastor about it who informed them they were OK, that Jesus died for them and all is forgiven. No exception. The latter were in the minority. Only once did I ever have teach a client what the scripture says and with this person I am not sure but what she was lying.

May I be so bold as to suggest that persons involved in this kind of situation have other hidden issues? If you doubt me, listen to "Ten Indictments" by Paul Washer. Granted, he is not discussing this issue but he is dealing with issues that cut to the heart of heart issues.

So sorry to read there are so many on this thread who are DR...seems strange these strangers suddenly appear on SI and on this thread. Very strange, indeed.

ginnyrose

Natan4Jesus wrote:

dear friend Christian,
you certainly scorched Murr. ouch. I'm not rebuking you or him, just saying ouch.

words are like razors, or words are like balm.

I was just stunned by the razor-like nature of your words. I thought the brother was rather brave by being so transparent.

oh, Grace, how sweet the sound.

in Jesus' love, neil

My Brother in Christ.

I REJOICE in murrcolr's salvation AFTER his marriage to a divorced woman. REJOICE, REJOICE, REJOICE with the Angels!

His salvation is the BEST thing about this thread. Praise the Lord for this and I welcome to see all brothers and sisters in the Throne room someday! :-) :-) :-)

Divorce is still sin.

Please listen to "Ten Indictments" by Paul Washer and then come back..

EDIT: There are greater issues at stake here then simply divorce and remarriage.

ginnyrose

This whole thread reminds me why I refuse to send anyone to this website.

It's a shame it's resources are worthless...

ginnyrose wrote:
Please listen to "Ten Indictments" by Paul Washer and then come back..

EDIT: There are greater issues at stake here then simply divorce and remarriage.

ginnyrose

It seems some people do not understand this; I will try and explain it so it is easy to understand.

The power of sin is in the Law, and the wages of sin is death...for through the Law, I have knowledge of sin and sinned revived and I died.

But the law has no power over me now...because I have no sin...and because I have no sin, I am not under the law
If I had sin, the law would have power over me, and I would be under the law.

Now this is the key to understanding this: [b]How do I have no sin?[/b] [u]Jesus nailed my sins to the cross and this is called grace;[/u] (I am under Grace)therefore, I have no more sins before God, and I am completely made righteous before the throne of God, and being made free from sin through the cross of Christ, I have peace with God the Father. This is the righteousness which is by faith. Do you understand? I am sin free before God because Jesus took away my sins, and where there is no sins, the righteousness that the law requires is fullfilled.

Now does this mean I do not have to have good works? ...of course not!! How shall we who have been freed from sin live any longer there in! God shall enable us to live free from sin in our lives:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

verse 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

(meaning God will enable us to live holy with good works!) My body is physically the Temple of the Holy Spirit...meaning a part of me is God. I have His seed born into my spirit (the holy of holies is the place of His residence which is my heart...and I love Him so) which grows and brings forth fruit unto righteousness (righteous works), but but the Spirit, I serve God...inwardly which manifests outwardly through righteous works. And every day is Holy and is the sabbath...Jesus my rest...because He is within me...flesh of my flesh and bones of my bones...I am His physical body on Earth as are others too (We are the Body of Christ)! We live every day in holiness to God...for without holiness, no one shall see Him.

Understand that when Jesus took away my sins, this opened up heaven so that the Holy Ghost could come and reside within me...He can only reside in a sinless place. I'll write more latter.

Paul said, (concerning marriage) that a person is to remain in the position that God called/found him.

ginnyrose...do you have sources for your claim that "the exception clause" was added after 1000? Wescott and Hort have it in their Greek NT, and they relied upon Codex Alexandrinus and Sinaiticus, both written in the 4th century. In fact, no Greek NT I have (I have 4) even mention this reading as variant. Furthermore, the best scholars/commentators on the Greek such as Clarke, Barnes, Wesley mention nothing of the sort. The only thing I can find is that a few scholars reject Matthew's writing not based on Greek variants, but simply because they want to believe that Mark had it right and Matthew screwed it up.

Miccah, you are being awful presumptuous that you have it right and you alone use the scriptures. I have studied the scriptures intently on this subject, as have many older, wiser brothers, and conclude that, as another has mentioned, marriage is a covenant. When that covenant is broken, the covenant-breaker is held under bondage while the divorcee is free, whether to remarry or no.

There are some, you and Ginny included, that have come to different conclusions. I will leave you to those.

As Brother Philologos (Ron B) has said:
“It’s very easy to come to Bible conclusions in your study; it’s when people get involved that things get much more complicated”

When considering your Bible convictions, you must ask: 1. “Am I willing to die for this belief of mine?” 2. “Am I willing for another to die for this belief of mine?”

I highly recommend his teaching on this subject, found here in Studies 07 and 08:

[url=http://wiki.biblebase.com/index.php?title=Studies_in_1st_Corinthians]Church Life Revisited[/url]

Miccah wrote:
Divorce is still sin.

Your right one of millions, but let me ask this, is sin, sin? or is Divorce deserve to be put into a different category of sin? or is there different categories? over eating is sin and I am guilty of that "sometimes" although I am in excellent shape because of the way my body can deal with over eating, but some folks can look at food and gain 10 pounds. So if sin is sin could we not slam folks that over eat, like some have the divorced here? and if not please explain why not. Someone said God hates divorce, I always thought God hated sin also, but Loves the sinner, so I guess I am sorta confused here and just looking for some answers.
Thanks Mr. Bill

Miccah wrote 2009/3/18 17:02:
This whole post truly sickens me....
And looking over all these posts, I do not see one person who does not believe in divorce, condemning anyone who has had a divorce, or been remarried. I see scripture being brought up and spoken about. I see council given. I see longing hearts for those who may be contemplating divorce to turn away from it. I see much. But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce.

Miccah wrote 2009/3/18 17:33
His salvation is the BEST thing about this thread. Praise the Lord for this and I welcome to see all brothers and sisters in the Throne room someday!
_________________
Christiaan

Because from what you say in this sentence, [i]"But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce;"[/i] it sure sounds like you are saying that divorced people are condemned or not saved because of our divorces.

Are you saying that divorced people are condemned? or not saved?

Lysa wrote:

Brother, this doesn't look good on your part.... which is it going to be... he's on his way to hell or to heaven? What in the world happened between your two posts: "these posts truly sickening you" and then "his salvation being the best thing to happen to this thread"?

Apples and oranges. Re-read what I posted. Pray on it, then get back to me when it comes together. You will notice that I have not condemned anyone for divorce/remarriage in any of my posts, except calling sin what it is...sin.

And to see people here knowingly justifying sin IS sickning.

James 1.8

Because from what you say in this sentence, [i]"But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce;"[/i] it sure sounds like you are saying that divorced people are condemned or not saved because of our divorces.

"sure sounds like" and truth are two different things. If you are going to accuse me of something, please at least be certain of the accusation against me.

Are you saying that divorced people are condemned? or not saved?

Please re-read my post. My answer has already been posted.

Folks, there is a difference between conviction and condemnation. Conviction is from the Lord and leads one to repentance, and is a great thing to the repentant one. Condemnation/Condemned leads to hell. This can only come from the Lord, and is a horrible judgement for the unrepentant.

and if you walk as one who justifies sin...

There is only one way to salvation and that is accepting the blood of JESUS CHRIST that was shed at Calvary for the atonement of our sins. By God's standard, every sin that you and I commit requires blood to be shed. In other words His required punishment for every sin is death and forever being separated from Him in the lake of fire. The good news is that Jesus paid that penalty of death for us so we don't have to, but it is up to us to accept that free gift.

God gave us the 10 commandments to show us how far we plummet from His standard of righteousness. Not one of us can keep all of the commandments, therefore we all fall short of God's measure of holiness required to qualify ourselves for heaven -- I don't care how "good" of a person we think we are. It says in James 2:10, "for whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all." By this standard we are all guilty of breaking every commandment, which means we will go to hell because of the wretched sinful person we are.

This leaves all of us only one option to escape our sentence of death in the lake of fire, and that is to accept Jesus death in place of ours. Jesus simply asks that we repent of our unrighteousness, confess Him as Lord and let Him take control. We must deny ourselves (flesh), take up our cross and follow Him. There are no magic words to say and no special "sinners prayer" that a pastor tells you to repeat. Jesus said to repent and be baptized. I remember I was alone in my bedroom and told Him I had made a mess of my life and had blown it, I repented of my multitude of sins, and told Him He was now Lord of my life, and I will do whatever He wants the rest of my life, and I meant every word of it. There were no lightning flashes, loud thunder or warm fuzzy feelings just a peace about what I said.

Once we completely release control to Jesus, He will begin the process of changing us. Jesus accepts us just like we are, but He also loves us enough not to let us stay that way. As He promised in His Word, there will be trials and temptations and persecution. God sends these hard times to perfect and mature us into the fullness of Christ, so our flesh will die and Jesus will emanate through us. Old friends may not be our friends any more. Our own blood family may even turn on us. Jesus never promised it would be easy, but he did promise He would be right there to help us endure. Our part is just to believe Him and trust his promises, one of which is He will give us a peace in the midst of the storm.

PRAISE BREAK...
Let's Love Him who called us out of this world...
Love HIM with me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfiacfoxSwc&feature=related

Oh Lord we cry out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVtLFm0AbyE

How He Loves Us!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoC1ec-lYps

Hey

So I have read this thread all the way through and I am feeling utterly confused. This topic of marriage and remarriage has been on my heart for along time now and its one that really cuts deeply. As a young girl it really effected me when my dad walked out on my mom. I watched her life become a shambles as she searched for understanding.I saw the hurt in her eyes and the expression on her face.SO much sadness, so much pain. I watched my dad walk away and even though he has kind of stayed in touch(I hear from him once year) things have never been the same since that time. My mother lost her husband and I lost my dad. And sadly that is what happens in most cases of divorce it effects everyone. It leaves scars. It hurts deeply and even little ones know that when a divorce happens its just not right, deep down inside they know that something is happening that was not meant to happen and it stays with you.

As far as remarrying goes after a divorce I don't know right now what the answer is. I am seeking to know Gods heart in all of this. This is a painful topic for me and maybe it is for others to. Maybe there are those of us with deep hurts and past stories that make up who and what each of us is now, perhaps there is room to step back for a time and to pray for one another instead of hurling accusations and names at each other. I will be praying for all of you tonight...

Just a thought and prayer
your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

Edit* Post removed by me.

wind_blows wrote:
As far as remarrying goes after a divorce I don't know right now what the answer is. I am seeking to know Gods heart in all of this. This is a painful topic for me and maybe it is for others to. Maybe there are those of us with deep hurts and past stories that make up who and what each of us is now, perhaps there is room to step back for a time and to pray for one another instead of hurling accusations and names at each other. I will be praying for all of you tonight...

Just a thought and prayer
your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

I'm sorry if I've helped contribute to your confusion. I hold to the New Covenant that says it's not by anything I have not done or done that makes me worthy in His eyes, it's by Him willingly pouring out His blood and His resurrection alone that makes me worthy!! Romans 7.24-8.1

Now this is just my own personal assumptions and they could be wrong! But I think some people's (not necessary those on SI, but one's I've dealt with personally); I believe they are driven to be against certain so-called sins because of fear. 1. Fear that if they've lived like this or with this, so should everyone else too; but more importantly if you're forgiven, why have they lived like that for so long? 2. Fear that if they agree that God does indeed forgive certain sins, then the floodgates will open and GOD HELP US ALL!! (I'm sure there are more but these are off the top of my heart.)

BillPro wrote:
It says in James 2:10, "for whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all." By this standard we are all guilty of breaking every commandment, which means we will go to hell because of the wretched sinful person we are.

Amen Bill! They are fine but we are not! They are pure, we are not. They are holy, we surely can't be being divorced and all! By the Bible I have, that makes them having no need of a physican! I stand by what I said before, [i]God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble[/i] (James 4.6), whether the humble are murderers, adulters, or divorced. God does indeed give grace to the humble.

I have tried to be faithful to the Word of God as I understand it and stay by the stuff and provoke to love for those who are in need of a physican. The greatest of these is Charity, so I will trust God - through the Holy Spirit - to work in another person's life and tell them that they are wrong and can't marry. I am willing to stand before God and let HIM tell me that I was wrong for loving too much and therefore I can't get in. When I hear it from HIS voice, I will believe it, not from any man or woman's.

But I do leave this discussion with this unanswered question (You know, Miccah said he was leaving the discussion on page two and he came back, (or do I need to reread that again?) [huge grin]; anyway I get come back too, if need be; in love of course!! LOL).... Here's the question...

[b][i]Is Christ a respecter of persons or is He not. Acts 10:34 Yes or no?[/b][/i]

I've noticed that no one on the other side of this discussion has answered this! I challenge any one who cannot answer this question with a resounding "NO, He is no respecter of persons" that you are preaching a false gospel and it will be of none effect.

To Lysa and whomever

after a long night and much prayer I just wanted to come back and say one last thing. For me personally I believe that there is no blanket answer to apply here in this situation of divorce and remarriage. I believe that only with walking with brothers and sister daily in Him that we are going to really see where there heart is and know what their fruit is, in order to discern if they belong to Him. Only in living and caring for each other daily will we really know them by their fruit. For my dad his divorce and subsequent remarriages of two other women is sin, something he still has not repented of.He sadly is very selfish man who is unwilling to see the truth. I can say this because I know him. For others like murrcolr they have sought out the Lord and walked in His will daily loving Him and their spouses, been faithful and the fruit they produce reveals that, then I believe God honors those marriages. Perhaps its not a one size fits all kind of answer but it is what I am seeing at this time.

Please understand that when I said there was pain and past stories and that maybe we could all take a step back for a time and pray for each other I was speaking of both sides of this. I think that divorce hurts but I know with out a doubt that Jesus blood covers and heals. Not everyone is being judgmental or a pharisee some of us are seeking to know and understand what the Lords heart is, some of us are growing, perhaps we should all learn to choose are words more carefully instead of responding in the moment was all I meant to say.

So anyhow, I just wanted to share what the Lord put on my heart before I leave. I have also decided that I am going to leave this thread and SI forum. This is a wonderful site with great teachings, and a lot of wonderful people but its not the place for me I have come to realize. So thanks for listening and letting me share.

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

murrcolr wrote:
Guys/Girls

What will you do if the man who God choses to led the next Move of God is married to divorcee?

HomeFree89 on 2009/3/16 15:02
Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God

But I do not see anyone saying that you are condemned or not saved because of your divorce.

Maybe you don't but I ask what that person means when he said “Question whether or not God really picked the man and wonder whether or not it is truly a move of God“

They don't think that God could use a man married to a divorcee to be the leader of the next Move of God because of what they have been taught and they have been taught that anyone married to divorcee lives in sin even though that person has turned to Christ and has been regenerated by Gods spirit.

There are some that would even go as far to say that they must divorce there current partner and go and be reconciled with there first partner. They just don’t seem to see how twisted that is, the very thing they claim to be standing against is the thing they teach to do.

Miccah wrote:

This whole post truly sickens me. I have never seen so many "Christians" justify their sinful actions then I have in this one thread.

We are not trying to justify our sin but point out to you, how great God is. That he can take the mess that we get in because of sin and turn it around, he can take the pain, the hurt, the bitterness and unforgiveness out the heart of the child that has seen there Father or Mother leave, he can also do that same for the spouse.

But he can also change the man or the woman that walked out on the family. He could do such a work in his life that he could make him the leader of a Move of God. But there are some that believe that God could not do such a thing. Because of the teaching they have been taught.

Yes we do brother. We are some of them as well. And it is because of the love AND the fear of the Lord that many here council against divorce.

Then if you undersatnd it so much then why have you taken offense and then proceed to scold me with your words and then you think that in some way that your words will bring conviction on me.

As for me I do not feel one little drop of conviction, It only made me come up with another question why did you react so strongly to a man who would share what he was like, and what God did for that man and then say it sickens you.

Here in a nutshell is what I believe the law has a purpose and that purpose is to bring us to Christ. Gal 3:24 Once we have come to Christ we have no need for the law as we have begun a new life in the spirit. Gal 3:25 Are we to be like the Galatians who started in the spirit but then tried to be perfected by going back to the law. Gal 3:3-5 We have begun in the spirit and should be perfected by the spirit and should allow the spirit to do that work in us.

Gal 3: 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

murrcolr wrote:

Then if you undersatnd it so much then why have you taken offense and then proceed to scold me with your words and then you think that in some way that your words will bring conviction on me.

As for me I do not feel one little drop of conviction, It only made me come up with another question why did you react so strongly to a man who would share what he was like, and what God did for that man and then say it sickens you.

Yea, sometimes I can be a bonehead and not explain myself as well as I should. I pray in the future that I can convey what my heart truly says through the writen words on this website accuratly.

Regardless of the situation on right or wrong about divorce and re-mariage, I want to take this time to appologize and ask for forgiveness for my harsh tone. I intended to stay out of this conversation and then went back on my own words. That was wrong.

I wanted to convey my disgust for justification of sin, and it came off as condemning all. That was not my intent and I appologize for not being able to convey it clearly.

So ask for forgiveness for my faults. I am not perfect and am continually being molded by the Lord. I have a long way to go, but I am excited for the journey! :-)

1 Peter 3:8-22

DeepThinker wrote:
Ok, lets open this up a bit. Let me tell you a story, a true story.

A Christian couple were having problems. The woman decided to divorce her husband. There was no infidelity on his part, she wanted a divorce. The church sided with the woman that this was the best course of action. There was no room for reconciliation she wanted it out. So she divorced him.

Question: Can he remarry?

When any divorce is obtained on non-biblical grounds, and one of the parties remarries, that person has committed adultery since God never recognized the divorce as legitimate (Matthew 5:32; Mark 10:11). Since the remarried partner has “committed adultery,” the marriage bond in now broken and the remaining partner is free to remarry.

...I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. 1 Corinthians 7:25

Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 1 Corinthians 6:3

I want to give my judgment concerning this, not as one who stands ready to condemn others, but as one who has obtained mercy from the Lord Jesus; so I will speak. I do this, not to speak out of place, or to speak out of line, but to do this to build up the body of Christ in edification, and comfort of the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:12

I do this to share good judgment, and mercies that I have obtained from the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am going to base the judgment that these two are Christians (Born again I presume, and not some other religion or cult)

My judgment:

Based on what you have shared here, and without further information, it is not permitted that either of these two should seek a divorce. But you have stated that the woman has divorced her husband, which, according to scripture frees the man from bondage to her.

My first response here is reconciliation if possible, before remarriage. Better still, stay single and love God...but not eveyone will be able to do that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If a husband and wife are already in the body of Christ, and have been sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, they should seek God for repentance and forgiveness, and forgiveness for each other.

If a wife or husband wants to leave for no reason other then they just don't want to be married to that person anymore, just so they can go and marry someone else, then there are obviously other issues here with the one who wants to leave. This person’s heart, that wants to leave, is not right before the Lord.

If he/she separates from their spouse, they are to remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to their spouse; divorce/remarriage is not permitted in this case.

A person is permitted, as per Matthew 5:32 to divorce their spouse for sexually immoral sins (adultery, bestiality, sodomy etc.), The spouse is no longer bound in this case, and is free to divorce and remarry if he/she so chooses, but only in the Lord.

Now the Lord would intervene before the next scenario would take place I am sure: If a man was abusive (violent because of alcoholic rage, anger or for some other reason) to point that that he forced his wife to leave for her own safety and that of her children, then this man's heart is not right before the Lord.

If it becomes apparent, that the Spirit of the Lord has left this man, then my judgment here is separation, followed by Godly council.

The man should be brought before Godly council of the elect brethren, and attempts mad to restore him - as per Galatians 6:1 (Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.) If the man agrees to heed Godly council, and repents before the Lord, and becomes contrite and broken in his spirit with repentance, and it is viewed by all that he is remorseful for what he has done, and he is washed of his sins in the blood of the Lamb before the Lord, then they can make reconciliation together.

What about apostasy? If the man departs as an unbeliever from the assembly of the church body, he has in effect resisted the council of God. In the case of backsliding or apostasy, where a man will not heed the Godly council of the elect brethren, but chooses to depart from the Godly assembly and commits spiritual adultery, then let him be as an unbeliever.

Concerning the unbelieveing partner: The Bible speaks directly to this kind of situation in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16: “But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to dwell with him, let him not divorce her. And the woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to dwell with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. “For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?”

The principles here are also very clear:

1. If the unbelieving partner desires to preserve the marriage, the believing partner has no freedom to divorce him/her.

2. If the unbelieving partner chooses to leave and sue for divorce, the believing partner is to let him/her depart. In such cases the believing partner is free to remarry, but “only in the Lord”. (1 Corinthians 7:39)

Further, concering backsliders, we are not exempt from making further attempts to win back our fallen brother if possible, as per James 5:19-20

Concerning the fallen brother:

… Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

I found this article online after I written most of this out, and used it in part.

Take the time to read it:
http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=3723

My hope and prayer to God is that all who have taken the time to read what I have posted here will be comforted in the Holy Spirit. I speak encouragement in the name of Jesus regarding this issue.

Miccah wrote:
So ask for forgiveness for my faults. I am not perfect and am continually being molded by the Lord. I have a long way to go, but I am excited for the journey!

No problems, lets move on.

Jesus once told the religious leaders of Israel abut God’s ideal plan for marriage: “So, then, they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let not man separate” (Matthew 19:6 NKJV). Divorce is not a deliberate part of God’s plan from the beginning. In fact, God says He hates divorce (Malachi 2:16).

Divorce has crept into human marriage relationships, however, and today has become rampant. Approximately one out of every two marriages in America will be broken by divorce, and the rate is increasing. To those who believe in Jesus Christ, this is a disconcerting state of affairs. It is also a state of affairs that demands a clear understanding of what the Bible teaches about divorce and especially remarriage.

The purpose of this website is to explain in a concise way what God says in the Bible about divorce and remarriage. Certainly every case involving a divorce and/or remarriage must be considered individually, but the principles explained herein should provide a biblical framework to evaluate each individual case.

This explanation operates on the following assumptions:

1. The Bible is the Word of God, inerrant, infallible, and authoritatively binding in every age and culture on earth.

2. The Bible is to be interpreted literally and unless the context clearly indicates that it should be taken otherwise.

3. More specifically related to the issue of divorce and remarriage, it is assumed that whenever God grants permission for a legitimate divorce, He also grants permission for a legitimate remarriage. If God did not desire to grant permission to remarry, He could prescribe permanent separation only (1 Corinthians 7:11). Therefore, since in some cases God does permit divorce, it is assumed that wherever He does, He also permits remarriage.

I. MARRIAGE BETWEEN TWO BELIEVERS
The general principle for a marriage between two actively professing Christians is stated by Paul in his first letter to the church at Corinth: “A wife is not to depart from her husband. But if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife” (1 Corinthians 7:10, 11 NKJV).

The principles here are very clear:

1. No divorce is permitted to a Christian couple.

2. Separation is allowed in severe circumstances (e.g. physical cruelty or abuse, life threats, etc.) but never divorce or remarriage.

The only exception to this principle is found in Matthew 5:32. “Whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced (i.e. for any reason other than sexual immorality) commits adultery” (NKJV).

Since sexual relations form a bond of oneness between two people (1 Corinthians 6:16), sexual sin on the part of one marriage partner is grounds for divorce. The Greek word translated “sexual immorality” (pornea) is a general term and would include adultery, homosexuality or any type of sexual perversion. It should be noted that Jesus does not insist upon divorce in such cases nor command it -- nor even encourage it. Considering the Scriptures as a whole, it would seem that divorce should be a last resort, reserved only for cases of repeated and/or flagrant sexual violations. Short of this, forgiveness and reconciliation are to be sought after and the marriage preserved. If a divorce is obtained because of sexual immorality, remarriage is permitted.

II. MARRIAGE BETWEEN A BELIEVER AND AN UNBELIEVER
The Bible speaks directly to this kind of situation in 1 Corinthians 7:12-16: “But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to dwell with him, let him not divorce her. And the woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to dwell with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart; a brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases. But God has called us to peace. “For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife?”

The principles here are also very clear:

1. If the unbelieving partner desires to preserve the marriage, the believing partner has no freedom to divorce him/her.

2. If the unbelieving partner chooses to leave and sue for divorce, the believing partner is to let him/her depart. In such cases the believing partner is free to remarry, but “only in the Lord”. (1 Corinthians 7:39)

III. SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS
Every situation does not fit neatly into these categories. There are a number of varied situations that can and do arise. Many are of such a unique nature that general principles cannot be formulated for them. However, there are a few special cases that tend to reoccur regularly, and these are considered below:

A. When any divorce is obtained on non-biblical grounds, and one of the parties remarries ,that person has committed adultery since God never recognized the divorce as legitimate (Matthew 5:32; Mark 10:11). Since the remarried partner has “committed adultery,” the marriage bond in now broken and the remaining partner is free to remarry.

B. In the case of a person who has just accepted Christ as his/her Savior, that person becomes a “new creature” in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). This does not mean that God immediately erases all painful memories, bad habits or underlying causes of past marital problems, but that He begins the process of transforming the believer through the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. Nor does this mean that the new believer is automatically freed from nature that general principles cannot be formulated for them. However, there are a few special cases that tend to reoccur regularly, and these are considered below:

1. If the new believer is presently separated from his/her spouse, he/she must seek genuine reconciliation with the estranged partner (1 Corinthians 7:11). If the partner refuses, and seeks and receives a divorce, the believer is free to remarry in the Lord according to 1 Corinthians 7:15.

2. If the new believer is presently divorced, he/she must seek genuine reconciliation with the divorced partner (1 Corinthians 7:11). If the partner refuses, the believer is free to remarry in the Lord according to 1 Corinthians 7:15.

3. If the new believer is presently divorced and his/her former spouse has since remarried, the marriage bond has been broken and the new believer is free to remarry in the Lord. To have the remarried partner obtain a second divorce to reconcile with the new believer would be a violation of the Scriptures (Deuteronomy 24:1-4).

4. If the new believer’s former spouse has remarried and is now divorced again, the new believer is not allowed to take the former spouse back (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) but is allowed to remarry in the Lord.

5. If the new believer is presently remarried, but his/her original divorce was not biblical, he/she should not dissolve the present marriage to seek reconciliation with the former partner. To do so would be a violation of the Scriptures (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). The new believer should confess his/her sin, receive God’s forgiveness, and make his/her present marriage honoring to God.

C. It is assumed that the grace of God becomes operative in any attempt to reconcile a marriage. Two people who repent and confess their sin, and seek God’s power and strength, can once again experience the joy of a healthy marriage relationship. A true sign of repentance and salvation will be a sincere desire to restore a former marriage whenever possible.

D. If the innocent party in a legitimate, biblical divorce is seeking remarriage, it is preferable that he/she waits until a spouse who is unwilling to reconcile has remarried. The purpose of such a wait is so as not to preclude any possibility of reconciliation. However, this is not to be a hard and fast rule, but will depend upon a number of factors that must be evaluated by each person in such a situation (e.g., purity of life and thought, time, children needing a father/ mother, etc.)

IV. DIVORCE AND SPIRITUAL LEADERSHIP
The church has a responsibility to uphold the biblical ideal of marriage, especially as exemplified by its leadership. In cases where there has been a divorce in a person’s past, the church has an obligation to restrict, for a period of time, the person’s involvement in leadership until it is proven that the person’s life-style and/or present marriage exemplifies godliness, pure devotion and sacrificial love.

On the other hand, divorce is no greater sin than any other, and must not be placed in a unique category that is not in keeping with the Scriptures. 1 Timothy 3:2, 12 does not prohibit previously married men from serving as elders and deacons. Such an interpretation would bar widowers from such service as well as divorced men, and this would be a clear contradiction of the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 7:39: Romans 7:1-3). Where there has been repentance, confession and forgiveness from God, a believer’s qualifications for leadership must be evaluated on the qualities, which currently characterize his/her life. The Bible does not see divorce as a sin that is to follow a person all his/her life or permanently disqualify him/her for all spiritual service.

Borrowed from:
http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=3723

Wind_Blows said

Perhaps its not a one size fits all kind of answer but it is what I am seeing at this time.

There you go we can't fit God into a box. He'll have the answer in your situation to meet the need you have and will do it a way that would seem impossible to you. Keep lifting up your Father in prayer because your prayers will be answered.

Also remember your Father in heaven is not like earthly Father remember the promise in Deuteronomy 31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

For he is with you.....

Oh I wish, I could give you a hug.

Love Colin

by ccrider on 2009/3/19 12:49:19

I don't think there is one person on this thread who thinks divorce is the answer to a marital problem. And I don't think there is anyone here who does not think divorce is a sin. Wires are getting crossed here in my view.

The other view is: "I've sinned in many ways including divorce and or remarriage and it's not something I'm proud of but I'm a living example of God's mercy which also endureth forever."

But I also think those who have been divorced and or remarried react emotionally to these issues as it pertains to sin and may take what someone is saying out of context in a defensive posture. Some may just be pointing out that divorce is sin, remarriage is sin, and that we must speak against it as such as sin but not as a sin that is unpardonable. Some, I know have this view, but I'm not speaking of them... just those who feel it is important to speak of obedience with the same importance and weight as God's mercy. Both are for the Christian, both are necessary, both (in their PROPER CONTEXT AND PERSPECTIVE)glorify God.

“It’s very easy to come to Bible conclusions in your study; it’s when people get involved that things get much more complicated”

It is this very thing that blinds people to the truth of the WORD. People want to get to heaven with out repenting: just say sorry! and continue on your merry way.

The issue of divorce and remarriage is not the issue: it is simply the symptom of a greater heart issue that has never been dealt with. All sin is like that. I have never seen a divorced and remarried person who was otherwise. All sin, regardless of the act is a manifestation of an abiding sin. And not only that, there will be a host of other active sins present in the life of that individual. Consider: have you ever been guilty of ONLY one sin? No! There will be a host of others present and working. So it is with divorce and remarriage.

do you have sources for your claim that "the exception clause" was added after 1000?

I provided a link in my original post on this thread where this is discussed. In fact I became aware of this recently on a thread posted by another brother here on SI.

I repeat: Listen to "Ten Indictments" by Paul Washer. Do as I do: burn it onto a CD, put it in your cars' CD player and listen to it - often. It ministers to heart/mind/spirit issues ...

ginnyrose

Greetings Deep thinker

Its to bad that your not willing to listen to Paul Wahser message "Ten Indictments" it is a really awesome teaching that really opened up my eyes and heart as well. Regardless of where you stand on this subject Paul Washer teaching is worth the time to listen to.

For anyone else who has not heard it I have to say it is really good and filled with truth, for sure its worth listening to.

God Bless
Maryjane

ginnyrose wrote:

It is this very thing that blinds people to the truth of the WORD. People want to get to heaven with out repenting: just say sorry! and continue on your merry way.

ginnyrose

I can assure you GinnyRose that this is not the case. Perhaps you need to understand what repentance is.

I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?

DeepThinker wrote:
Hi MaryJane, I started to listen to him when the Indictments was first sent out, but I've heard all my life all the problems there is with the church, I simply couldn't stand to hear any more, that's all. Nothing against Brother Washer, just don't want to be bothered hearing anymore negativity. Just tired of it. :-o

I tried to listen to this person Paul Wahser last night I thought I would just give him a try, I did not finish. His message probably was pretty good, but he just cannot minister to me, it's just the way he talks I guess, it was terrible. I am more of a Charles Stanley person, now he can minister to me and has for 20 years. I personally think having someone that can minister to us, we listen more closely, and get more out of there message, but this is just my personal opinion.

DeepThinker wrote:

I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?

:-P I don't think she is Earendel, whatever denomination it is, I bet the standards are as high as the moon. Been there done that.

Now on to more serious matters. Did God sin when He divorced Israel? Everyone is saying that divorce is an abomination unto God, is God an abomination? God forbid. Consider;

Jeremiah 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The R/C church is apostate concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ for many reasons, teaching damnible heresies.

Regardless of the R/C's posting on this board, Divorce is wrong, and is a sin period. Having said that, divorce is not the unforgivable sin, even for some of those who have remarried ( I say some because I don't think all have repented). My first wife divorced me after a very rocky marriage and married another, making it impossible for there to ever be any reconciliation...that was in 1995. I have forgiven her, and I hope that she and her husband finds repentance and salvation. So, is she to divorce the one to whom she has been married for almost 15 years and live single? NO, she is to repent of her sins, and walk with God and sin no more.

I am remarried for almost 7 years now, we have 4 children as well, she has one child from a previous marriage, as do I, and we have 2 together. We own a home and a business together.

I have returned to the Lord, and have made repentance before Him; I have given Him my heart in love forever. I have received Him, and He has received me. I have a very powerful testimony as to how the Lord brought me back to Him.

...I did not seek Him out, He sought me out in a very profound and supernatural way. I posted my testimony here:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27966&forum=45&3

There are some who would say my repentance is not true, because I will not leave the woman to whom I am married. They would have me believe it is right before God to abandon my wife and children and leave them fatherless and my wife a single mother, ...making this sin worse then the first. I cannot abandon them, and I believe I have the Holy Spirit on this.

I can attest to the fact that the Holy Spirit has returned to me, whom I know, and he has placed is seal upon me. If you have ever been baptised in the Holy Spirit, you know what it is that I am talking about. God cannot abide in sin, and if He has not forgiven me, the Holy Spirit would not have returned to me, but He has.

So I will stand on the testimony which the Holy Spirit has given concerning my repentance and forgiveness of my sins.

Since my return to the Lord, my wife and my children have accepted Jesus into their lives and attend church with me at the local pentecostal church.

DeepThinker wrote:

Did God sin when He divorced Israel?

Context my friend. Read the entire chapter. The Lord is calling for His people to come back to Him which have already turned from Him. He is allowing those who do not want to be His, to depart from Him forever. Those that would turn back to Him, would not be divorced from Him for eternity. Never to be in His presence.

Context context context.

Read Jeremiah 4:1-2

[b]Mark 6:18[/b]

For John had said unto Herod,
It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.

DeepThinker wrote:

Miccah, not everything has to be in context. You can preach on one sentence, one verse and open a whole world of deep truths. "Context Context Context", who says??

I'm sorry Deepthinker, I thought that you asked a Biblical question about God and divorce. I was trying to give you a Biblical answer for your question. If you are looking to proof-text your questions and answers, I can do that as well... but that would be taking the Word of the Lord out of context.

[url=http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/14435.htm]Proof-texting[/url]

I am always saddened by how many can not read and understand what is in black and white before them.

For those looking for context, I provide this.

Mat 5:31 \t It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
Mat 5:32 \tBut I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Mat 5:33 \tAgain, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
Mat 5:34 \tBut I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
Mat 5:35 \tNor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

In verses 31 and 32, Christ is openly rebuking divorce. But so many seem to overlook how verse 32 is structured.

Mat 5:32 \tBut I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Somehow people make the words between the comma's mean more than the subject of the statement. If we use the grammar skills we should have learned in grade school, we should note that Christ is saying "That if you put your wife away, you cause her to be an adulteress. Unless she is already an adulteress." The exception clause comes from an inability to understand grammar and punctuation.

I myself had to spend hours praying to God asking Him if I was reading this correctly, as so many pastors have preached the exception clause in my ears. Every place I read through the Word, this heresy of a "clause" (more a excuse to continue on in sin) was put down in light of scripture.

If we look later in Matthew,
Mat 19:3 \tThe Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 \tAnd he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made [them] at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 \tAnd said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 \tWherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7 \tThey say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 \tHe saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 \tAnd I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Note a key comment by Christ: Mat 19:8 \tHe saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

Also note the same commas in Mat 19:9 that are present in Mat 5:32.

Now, I will not say that God does not have grace and mercy upon His children. I can't say that all who are remarried should divorce, and seek their spouse that they made a vow to God to remain married to until death, but I can say that God does work in many different ways.

I look at my mother, and see her on her 4th husband. My blood father was her first, and the man I knew as dad was her third. Through my eyes I would seek her and her third husband to be reconciled. But this isn't what scripture teaches.

I see others, who have remarried, and whom God has blessed, giving grace to cover the ongoing sin of adultery. (Yes, it is adultery. Christ makes that very clear in stating that anyone who married a divorced person is committing adultery. You can argue all you want, but that is what Jesus Christ said multiple times.) God's mercy and grace is defiantly sufficient to cover their sin.

And I know of a couple, a man and a woman who divorced their spouses to "marry" each other, got saved after their adulterous relationship was enforced by man made laws, who woke up in the middle of the night, turned to each other and said, "This is wrong, and we need to make it right with our real spouses." The divorced in the eyes of the world, and remarried their respective spouses, and both couple are a burning light for God.

And finally, when my wife left me for a man she had known for 13 days, I turned to seek God's will. His will for me is to seek my wife's salvation. I love her more than anyone in this world, and as an adulteress, who has turned her back on the faith of Christ, she will burn in hell if she does not repent and be saved. This is not an easy burden to bear. But Christ gives strength to complete the order He's given me. If those of you who are divorced hate your spouse so much as to stop seeking their salvation and praying for them, in spite of the fact that they are the one person God called you to lay your life down for, and joined you together commanding you not to divide this joining asunder, then you are guilty of the sin of murder, as Christ himself said.

For those of you seeking that God would save your prodigal spouse, restore your marriage, heal your family, and return both parents to any children that may be involved, I let you know this, you are not alone. There are hundreds of thousands of us out here praying for your marriage and family, as we pray for our own. God does work miracles, He does restore the years that the locust has eaten, and He has restored many marriages through out the years. And if you've ever listened to Bill McLeod talk about the Canadian revival of the 70's, marriages were restored both by bringing singles back to their divorced spouses, and by breaking up non-covenant marriages. The same is true of the Lancaster revival of '51. There is a pattern of God doing things that just do not fit our limited theology or definitions of what He must do.

God bless you all,
Jason Smith
Standing in faith for the healing of his marriage, the salvation of his wife, and the working of the impossible by God the Father in the name of His Son, Christ Jesus.

DeepThinker wrote:

If you are looking to proof-text your questions and answers, I can do that as well... but that would be taking the Word of the Lord out of context.

:-P Excellent slap stick, I love it!

Thanks brother. Humor IS good. :-)

utilizer001 wrote:

I look at my mother, and see her on her 4th husband. My blood father was her first, and the man I knew as dad was her third. Through my eyes I would seek her and her third husband to be reconciled. But this isn't what scripture teaches.

Brother. This hits close to home for me as well. My mother has been through 2 divorces and is engaged to be married a 4th time (she was widowed with the third). My father has been divorced 3 times and is engaged to be married a 4th time. My parents were divorced when I was 5 years old. I have known nothing but divorce throughout my entire childhood and the beginning of my adult life because of my parents choices.

At this point in our lives, our parents have taken to us as marriage councilors. My wife and I have had to literally plead with her parents not to get a divorce and act as their councilors as well. My wife and I have ministered to those seeking divorces, and have lost some friends in the process of pleading with them to work out their marriage. Some of these folks are professing Christians. So much more I could share...

So folks, if you think that those of us who do not agree and support divorce/remarriage have no idea what the divorced/remarriage crowd goes through, please know that we have our stories as well. We are not removed from the issues at hand and are not speaking from some kind of high horse. We are not some type of legalist on the issue, regardless of the Pharisee accusations thrown around about us. But we are brothers and sisters in Christ that do worry about others salvation.

I have a question for you and would like an honest answer. Are you a Roman Catholic? And do you attend a Catholic Monastery?

No. Never have been and don't have any traceable ancestors who have been. And I do not study Catholic literature.

ginnyrose

Earendel,

You profess to know the LORD. If one knows Him you will know you are a work in progress "being changed from Glory to glory..." If the Holy Spirit were to convict you that you are indeed living in adultery and that you need to removed yourself from that situation, would you?

ginnyrose

Frankly, I am very cautious of any preacher who works to make me feel good, who would not challenge me to a closer walk with the LORD, who is too timid to challenge sin on a person's life. In this regard, Washer is passionate about holiness without which no man will see the LORD. Simple as that. Are we passionate about being holy? Sometimes? How about ALL the time?

ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:
Earendel,

You profess to know the LORD. If one knows Him you will know you are a work in progress "being changed from Glory to glory..." If the Holy Spirit were to convict you that you are indeed living in adultery and that you need to removed yourself from that situation, would you?

ginnyrose

I not only profess to know Him, I profess that He knows me. Does He know you? ...and how do you know that He knows you? What is your answer to this?

I have already dealt with this issue in my life regarding my marriage and my present state; I have had deep conviction from the Lord that I am not to abandon my wife and kids. She can leave me, but I am not allowed to leave her. And if she leaves me, I am to be single before the Lord for the remainder of my life. You have your interpretation of the scripture, and I truly don't think that you understand or know the Spirit of the Lord in all things.

Have you ever had the Lord appear to you? Has His Holy presence ever enveloped you? He has to me, time and time again. Even now as I write His Spirit is upon me. In my younger years, I have seen the Lord face to face in a dream (The love in His eyes when He looked at me were so intense and so beautiful, and the glory around him melted my spirit within me, and His glory caught me up.

Again, as a young man, on an evening before I went to sleep for the night, I fell into a trance, and the Lord appeared to me in a vision in the form of bright light, above the brightness of the sun, the same way that He did with the Apostle Paul. The Glory around His presence lifted me off my feet and knocked me backward...I tried to speak to Him, but my tongue was frozen to the roof of my mouth and I could not. I just lay there stunned and curled up in a ball. He moved in to where I was, and He told me that I was renowned before Him...This experience left me visibly shaken to the core.

A few months ago, I had contemplated leaving my wife after a disagreement, in fact I had left. She had not accepted that I became a Christian. On the night that I left, I prophesied and told her that she was going to get a visitation that evening; I did not know what the Lord was going to do.

My wife was not a Christian yet, so I kind of felt that I was justified in leaving. I knew the scriptures about living with an unbelieving spouse, that I could leave but have to remain single, and I was prepared to do that. I came under such great conviction when I left that night of terrible wrong and sin before the Lord. That night, I went to turn around and head back home after conviction fell upon me. When I did, I made it to the nearest city center (about 80 miles from home) and the Turbo broke on my car and it left me stranded in the city that night.

My wife started to pray to the Lord that night (the night I was stranded in the city), and she told the Lord in prayer that it was time that she gets her life right with Him, and made a decision to go to church. At the very moment that she said the word “time” in her prayer to the Lord, a 100 year old Seth Thomas mantle clock started ticking by itself. It has sat up on top of the Armoire in our bedroom and hadn’t been wound up for about 8 months. It is a 7 day clock and never ticks past 6 or 7 days before you have to rewind it again. It ran for twelve days straight without being rewound, and stopped on the 6th hour. 12 is the number representing the rule of God, and 6 is the number of man - The Rule of God over man.

Since this visitation where the Lord appeared to her, she has come to church with me and has given her heart to God. She was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, before the congregation of saints, about 3 months ago now.

About my personal calling, I do not know what the Lord is calling me to do yet (I have my convictions about it, but don’t want to share it right now). He has appeared to me in visions concerning world events, one of which has come to pass; the other is yet to come. I will tell you this though, if the second vision comes to pass, we are in for the summer/fall of hell.

In the world I was a business executive; I left a job that paid me 180k a year, because I could not in good conscience before the Lord be there as a Christian. The business owners had corrupt business practices, and were immoral men…and I left by the hand of the Lord.

In dealing with you, I can tell you that I am not a novice, and I am very knowledgeable in the scriptures. There is nothing that I won’t do for the Lord.

If the Lord commands me to leave my wife and children, I would do it without hesitation (because it is before the Lord). But He has not done this; in fact, I am to remain in the position that He has called me back to Him; this is where my conviction lies. This may change as time goes on, where the Lord will remove me for His purposes, the Lord knows.

I can tell you that my life is consecrated before Him, not with words, but with my heart and with my spirit. Not religiously as those who do not know Him, who say long and repetitious prayers and think they will be heard because of it, but of relationship and truth in the inward parts in the heart. (and there is a BIG difference) Learn this.

But this I will say to you – that the Lord will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, for His mercy is far greater than His judgment, and His forgiveness is far greater than His condemnation. Learn this too.

What more can I tell you? I am born from above, and this is my destiny. I have seen Him in His glory and He has seized the reigns of my heart. My heart yearns for Him far greater than anything in this life. He is far more to be desired, and more beautiful to my soul then anything you can imagine.

In prayer one time, I saw angels and men standing before the Throne of God worshipping Him; it was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my life; (the looks on their faces as they loved and worshipped Him) I was so touched by the sight, I wept bitterly after seeing it. His beauty is magnificent, and His majesty is His Crown, … He clothes Himself in beauty and all I want to do is to worship Him in the beauty of holiness, and complete and utter consecration before Him. The more I worship Him, the more I am transformed into His image. With all of my heart, with all of my strength, with my entire mind, and at the very core of my being, all I want to do, is to do what is right and holy before Him.

It can be very easy to be caught up in the letter of the law, but yet miss out on intimacy before the Lord. We all need to repent before God of our sins this is absolutley true. It's a road that we must stay on.

Don't be so caught up in the letter of the law that you miss out serving God in the Spirit. We can never be truly holy enough for God, but He accepts us just as we are as repented sinners that have been washed of our sins. We all really need to rely on Jesus to take way our sins. I used to attend a church that was very legalistic and wouldn't even allow a person to wear a wedding ring, because there is a scripture about wearing gold for ornament. Some also believe that a woman is not allowed to teach a man (says so in the bible, so what are you doing teaching me...don't you know it is a sin?). Some people believe that women have to wear a hat in church and are to be silent...says so in the bible (Paul said it)(I call the churches that make women wear hats the hatterites)Some believe that it is not permitted to eat pork, and that you must keep the sabbath on saturday only. They have sabbath school and not sunday school. Some believe that Jesus is the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit (I call them Jesus only)

There is so much confusion out there.

So where does this leave us?

Serve God in the Spirit, and He the Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth concerning everything that we need to know and observe.

So what does this say?

Know the Holy Spirit! Seek Him! ...and if you are not baptised with the Holy Spirit, you need to seek this out. Do you have any of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Do you know that witness of the Holy Spirit? What does His presence feel like?

DeepThinker wrote:

Have you ever had the Lord appear to you? Has His Holy presence ever enveloped you? He has to me, time and time again. Even now as I write His Spirit is upon me. In my younger years, I have seen the Lord face to face in a dream (The love in His eyes when He looked at me were so intense and so beautiful, and the glory around him melted my spirit within me, and His glory caught me up.

Okay, were getting off topic. But what has this got to do with anything? Does the LORD appearing before you make Ginnyrose or any of us any less significant? Let not these experiences make you more than what you are.....in Christ like the rest of us. Maybe your a finger to point the way, but is the liver that is not seen worthless? Maybe Ginnyrose is the liver in the body of Christ to filter out the garbage, all she sees is bad stuff and she works with it to cleanse the body of impurities. She doesn't see visions or dreams, but she has a joy that where she is at is where the LORD put her and she is happy to be there and people are drawn by her meek and mild spirit. You have supernatural experiences, but she may have had been down the road with terrible trials that will stable her walk and cause her to stable others in Jesus name. But each of you is not any less than the other, each one is doing the masters job. You don't say to the liver, "Hey liver, have you seen visions like I have and had the LORD melt your heart?" The liver responds, "No, but I've seen a Christian that almost lost all hope, but after travailing and casting out this impurity that just wouldn't go, at the last, it was purged". To me, after hearing that, I would give up any vision to be placed in that position to be used of God. To see one Christian Brother or Sister be revived is worth more than anything.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are way out of line here. I was merely trying to show how God has dealt with me in the past, and how He is still dealing with me, and it most certainly does not in any way make me any better than anyone else. I have sought God with all of my heart, and He appeared to me in visions, and gave to me His Holy Spirit. He has allowed a very close and intimate walk with Him. Should I be scolded for this?

I remember when I was a young man, when I attended a Baptist church. (they don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit) I was told to be quiet about my experiences with God, because I made people feel bad about themselves because they did not have the same experience and testimony that I did. I was told to be silent, and I felt awful for making people feel bad about their experience, or lack thereof.

I left there and God lead me to a full gospel fellowship.

What is at issue here is, is am I being led by God or not. I am not trying to put anyone down or trying to make anyone feel bad. You believe in Jesus, and so does ginnyrose, well I think this is truly wonderful! :-)

Just one more thing, there are many, many people that have had greater experiences then myself.

The owner of this website has a video on youtube, in fact the video led me here to this site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgDXTKT_p8

...truly wonderful!!!!!!! I can only hope to be like that.

Greetings

I have to reply to this comment from you Earendel concerning Ginnyrose. You wrote:I not only profess to know Him, I profess that He knows me. Does He know you? ...and how do you know that He knows you? What is your answer to this?

_____________________

I can tell you that Ginnyrose has walked with much love and care here on sermon index for as long as I have been posting. On more then one occasion she has shared with me, prayed for me, and spoken convicting and encouraging truth to me to point me towards Jesus. She has shown her fruit to be that of one who loves Jesus. Her courage and strength in how Father helped her through the death of her only daughter has blessed me greatly.

We all have testimony here that Father has used to shape us as He sees fit.

God Bless
MJ

DeepThinker wrote:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are way out of line here

It's difficult not to be Brother. Unless we have super duper discernment of how your feeling and what she's thinking or what he meant,

Agreed, it's hard to hear the tone of someone's voice or see a facial expression; forums are like that I guess. You cannot see someone's heart either, and sometimes typed words do not properly convey what is actually being said by someone.

I don't have super duper discernment and I didn't take the mentioned post negatively. I took it as someone giving a testimony of what the Lord has done in their life. We are supposed to give our testimonies, aren't we? I din't take it as him being arrogant at all. Just him telling what the Lord has done for Him. I think sometimes we(including myself) tend to take things too personally. I don't reply to alot of forums on this website because I don't want anyone to misconstrue the meaning or intention of my post. I enjoy reading the different discussions, but sometimes they can get downright nasty. I know that everyone is not going to agree and we're not supposed to, to a certain extent, but we are all in the same family! And sometimes we need to show a little more brotherly love! My husband is a very negative person. Always thinks the worst, sees the bad side of everything, etc...I am the opposite. I am a very positive person. I guess that can be both good and bad. We need to let the love of Jesus flow in us and through us to everyone! "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: "[color=CC0000]for ye are all one in Christ Jesus[/color]." Galatians 3:28 (The color was added by me for emphasis)
In Christ and with His love,
Wendy :-)

MaryJane wrote:
Greetings

I have to reply to this comment from you Earendel concerning Ginnyrose. You wrote:I not only profess to know Him, I profess that He knows me. Does He know you? ...and how do you know that He knows you? What is your answer to this?

_____________________

I can tell you that Ginnyrose has walked with much love and care here on sermon index for as long as I have been posting. God Bless
MJ

I have no idea what her experiences are with the Lord. I hope they are truly wonderful!

I know that the Lord overlooks many of our faults and blesses us anyway, as He has with me time and time again.

I really want to encourage people in the Lord to go deeper and deeper and don't quit; He truly is wonderful!

It's not just about geting rid of sin in our lives, and nothing more (although that's really important) but just as importantly it is about personal relationship with our loving Creator above all else in this life. Loving Him and worshipping Him in my spirit from the heart, and not just the mouth.

It's about our Lord Jesus Christ, and how He took away our sins, and nailed them to the cross, and with it all of the condemnation and guilt of sin that goes with it. Repentance is just the beginning of our Christian walk, but not the ending. Being changed into His image is the ending...or is it the end of the begining?

1 John 3:2-3 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

It's not so difficult, we just have to give ourselves to it. The more we draw close to God with our hearts, and not just our lips, the more His Spirit envelopes us, and equips us. The more He equips us, the more sin is going to fall away and drop out of our lives...
Exalt Him! Praise Him! Worship Him! Seek Him Out! Love Him...and as His sweet Holy Spirit falls on us, and we give ourselves to Him in worship, the more the cares of this life are just going to disolve away.

No matter what trials may come and go, or how we fail Him in this life...He will always brings us back; He will always be with us; I am witness to this fact. He is truly faithful!!

Repentance is a rocky road best travelled during the day when there is light, lest darkness comes and we cannot travel the road...that is to say the Spirit of God will not always strive with man.
Matthew 7:13-14

Sure! Glad that I helped someone! :-) We all have character flaws! That's why we're all in this together! I'll pray for you to be released from being bored by long posts! ;-)
In Christ,
Wendy

I just discovered goat cheese tonight. Wow, this is good!

Miccah wrote:
I just discovered goat cheese tonight. Wow, this is good!

I really like to eat figs; I can sit down and eat a whole bunch of them. Mark 11:12-14

Earendel,

I can easily see you are on a journey and it is not my responsibility to evaluate you on your journey. Your experiences with supernatural events do not impress me since the enemy can counterfeit God's miraculous works. The proof of a person's relationship with God lies in his life, his walk, in his obedience to the WORD: is he/she a sinner or a saint?

Am I being legalistic? I have been called that ... But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth. This is what God gave to us to teach us what He is like and what His children 'look' like. If any fall short, who claim to be religious but whose lifestyle do not reflect a regeneration by the Spirit of God we must mark that person.

Jesus says if ye love me, keep my commandments...so is being obedient to them being legalistic? Is it too much to expect other Believers to also follow the same 'rule'? Granted, doing things will not earn one heaven. Obedience comes as a result of a walk with the LORD. It means that we have Jesus' righteousness operating in our lives and this is what it looks like!

Abraham was called righteous because he Believed God and how was that demonstrated? He believed God asked him to offer his son and so he obeyed...simple, don't you think? I do.

Am I in violation of scripture by sharing what Paul says about women teaching men? If I recall the scripture this is referring to the church assembly...I am not aware that this forum is called a church assembly.

You scoff at females who 'wear hats'..I beg you, why do you do so? Have you any idea why some do? Sir, your attitude troubles me still...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:
Earendel,

I can easily see you are on a journey and it is not my responsibility to evaluate you on your journey. Your experiences with supernatural events do not impress me since the enemy can counterfeit God's miraculous works. The proof of a person's relationship with God lies in his life, his walk, in his obedience to the WORD: is he/she a sinner or a saint?

Am I being legalistic? I have been called that ... But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth. This is what God gave to us to teach us what He is like and what His children 'look' like. If any fall short, who claim to be religious but whose lifestyle do not reflect a regeneration by the Spirit of God we must mark that person.

Jesus says if ye love me, keep my commandments...so is being obedient to them being legalistic? Is it too much to expect other Believers to also follow the same 'rule'? Granted, doing things will not earn one heaven. Obedience comes as a result of a walk with the LORD. It means that we have Jesus' righteousness operating in our lives and this is what it looks like!

Abraham was called righteous because he Believed God and how was that demonstrated? He believed God asked him to offer his son and so he obeyed...simple, don't you think? I do.

Am I in violation of scripture by sharing what Paul says about women teaching men? If I recall the scripture this is referring to the church assembly...I am not aware that this forum is called a church assembly.

You scoff at females who 'wear hats'..I beg you, why do you do so? Have you any idea why some do? Sir, your attitude troubles me still...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

You say that you can easily see that I am on my journey in one breath, but then in another breath you imply that my experiences might be a counterfeit by satan, of God's miraculous works. Which is it, it can't be both?

Sister, I wasn't scoffing. If a woman wants to wear a hat in church that is her business, I am not against it at all; I just think it is wrong for people in some churches to make it a law that a woman HAS TO DO THIS (and some do). ...that's all. It's legalism not holiness!
*Big Sigh*
The same group of people say a woman is not allowed to cut her hair, or to teach. I read in the book of Acts that some women were prophetesses. I see nothing wrong with a woman teaching if she is doing so by the Spirit of God.

I am going to go by the word of God and my convictions of the Holy Spirit in regards to these matters. I am not living in sin, but you insist that I am. You would have me leave my small children, (my 4 year old daughter is sitting next to me right now) and to abandon them, and to divorce my wife of 7 years.

Sister, you have misinterpreted scripture and I would admonish you to go back before God and ask Him about this. Ask Him to send His Holy Spirit to show you.
*Big Sigh Again*
I know that God overlooks a lot of our faults and blesses us anyway.

You say: [i]"But I also know we have the written word to guide us into ALL truth". [/i]

The written word of God says: However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, [b]He will guide you into all truth[/b]; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. John 16:13

I know that the Spirit of God has come back to me; I know His presence, and anointing. I have made a commitment and a promise to God that I am going to raise my children to know Him, and I will do just that. :-)

You said: [color=000000]"Sir, your attitude troubles me still...[/color]

I say, I bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. May His love shine, through His Holy Spirit, to open and soften your heart and allow you to see with new eyes. Revelation 3:18-19

Earendel,

You have been very gracious in your reply - for this I thank you.

I am sad that you have become involved with others - produced sweet innocent children who potentially will suffer because of parents' disobedience....

Earendel, I am not as ignorant of divorce and its ramifications as you may believe: I have one aunt, one uncle, and 16 cousins who have been involved in it. I have also worked at a CPC for 15 years and had to deal with it there. I also have an uncle who was left by his wife (who left for another man) and then remarried; lived with her for 24 years until he surrendered to the Holy Spirit's conviction to leave her - and this was after producing 5 more children. (BTW, this family were Pentecostals - attended an Assembly of God church.) In my exposure to divorce/remarriage I see nothing but disaster: the family has been destroyed and continues to be destroyed. The children are rebellion personified (drugs, illegitimacy, truce-breakers, etc.) ... so sad and it is not necessary!

Sir, I grieve for my cousins and their children - as you see I have seen it first-hand, close-up. I also have seen what covenant marriages produce - the contrast it revealing. The Enemy is working hard to deceive and has succeeded in many places.

BTW, I am no longer a spring chicken, having seen 61 summers and fixing to add another one shortly unless the LORD returns. And have been married for 41 1/2 years to the same man. :-)

Shall I share a story real quick? At CPC I had clients who wanted to abort their babies. After sharing with them why it is not in their best interests to do, many have responded like this: "but I think God will understand: my situation is so bad and I cannot handle another child. I will have my abortion and then ask God to forgive me." Beware lest we, you or anyone falls into the same mindset that propels those who pursue abortion!

Earendel, I understand the dilemma you are in but God's grace is greater still!

ginnyrose

After much prayer before the Lord and consideration, this is where my conviction before the Lord lies in regards to Divorce and Remarriage. It's really very, very strict, but here it is:

Here is a brief study from: http://www.gospelway.com/family/divorce_remarriage.php

Part I: Does the Bible Say Divorce and Remarriage Is Moral or Immoral?

A. The General Teaching of the New Testament Is that Divorce is Contrary to God's Will, and that Remarriage Following Divorce Constitutes Adultery.

Note: that there is one exception to this general rule, which we will discuss later. At this point we are discussing the general rule. The following passages present this teaching:

Matthew 19:3-9 (cf. Mark 10:2-12; Luke 16:18)

Jesus was asked whether divorce can properly be obtained for just any reason a person might have. He answered by appealing to the original marriage law.

Jesus taught that divorce itself, in general, is contrary to God's will. God made one man for one woman, indicating He did not intend for either to marry anyone else. He said they should cleave to one another and the two become one - there is no room in God's plan for a third party. God joins the man and woman, no human has the right to break that bond.

Further, whoever divorces his wife and marries again commits adultery (unless he does it because she has been guilty of fornication), and whoever marries her who has been divorced also commits adultery. (Mk. 10 adds that this rule also applies to the woman if she divorces her husband.)

To help understand the passage, read it with your name and your spouse's name, instead of "whosoever," etc.

Matthew 19:9 - If ____________ (you) divorces __________ (his wife), except for fornication, and marries another, _________________ (you) commits adultery; and whoever marries ___________ (her who is divorced) commits adultery."

Matthew 5:31,32

One who puts away his wife (for some cause other than fornication) causes her to commit adultery. This assumes that she remarries as described in the last part of the verse and as implied in the previous verse (the purpose of the "bill of divorcement" according to the law was so she could become another man's wife - Deut. 24:1ff).

By divorcing his wife, the husband puts her in the position where she is strongly tempted to remarry and if she does remarry, Jesus says she is guilty of adultery and so is the man she marries (in contrast to the Mosaic Law which tolerated the remarriage). Hence, the divorce itself is wrong and should be avoided. [Cf. Matt. 18:6,7]

Romans 7:2,3

A married woman is bound by law to her husband as long as he lives. This means that if she is married to another man while her first husband is alive, she is guilty of adultery. She is free to remarry without guilt only if her husband is dead.

(Some ask what "law" is this that joins the man and woman - God's law or man's law? It is the law which, when violated, makes the woman an adulteress. Clearly this must be God's law, and this conforms to what is taught elsewhere.)

1 Corinthians 7:10,11

A married woman should not depart from her husband nor he from her. Again, divorce itself is not the will of God.

But if she departs (if divorce has occurred), she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. Clearly remarriage is not a scriptural alternative.

(Note: "depart" here is the same word elsewhere translated "put asunder" - Matt. 19:6; Mk. 10:9: The result of the action is that the woman is "unmarried.")

The teaching of the gospel on this point is unpopular with most people. Many people don't want to hear it preached. Jesus' own disciples considered it very strict (Matt. 19:10-12), still Jesus did not compromise it or apologize for it. He continued to teach and defend it and so must we.

B. To Apply These Passages Properly, We Must Understand Why the Second Marriage Is Forbidden and Why It Is Called "Adultery."

God clearly has the right to forbid any act if He so chooses, but it helps us apply the teaching when we understand His reasons for forbidding an act. What reason does God give for declaring the second marriage sinful, and why does He call it "adultery"?

Malachi 2:14-16

God hates putting away (v16). Again, divorce is contrary to God's will. Why? Because marriage is a covenant between a man and his wife (v14). God is a witness to that covenant, and He holds men to it (v14). If a man violates the covenant, he is dealing treacherously with his wife and God will hold him accountable. [Prov. 2:17; Ezek. 16:8]

Though this is an Old Testament passage, it helps us learn the definition of marriage, which has not changed. Marriage is, by God's definition, a solemn mutual agreement between a man and woman to live together as husband and wife. God holds them to that covenant bond and will not free them from it, even if people declare them to be free.

Remember this! The whole foundation of New Testament teaching regarding divorce rests on God's attitude toward marriage. When people weaken the barriers against divorce, they are weakening respect for marriage. Divorce matters because it destroys a marriage, and marriage is very important to God. Any view of divorce, which fails to respect marriage as God respects it, must be an unscriptural view.

This is why Jesus, in answering a question about divorce and remarriage, appealed to God's original intent regarding marriage (Matt. 19:3-9). God will respect and enforce His law regarding it, even when men disregard it!

Hebrews 13:4

The marriage covenant includes the right and obligation to have the sexual union only with the companion with whom we have a Scriptural marriage covenant. To have relations with anyone else is "fornication" or "adultery."

This too is part of the marriage covenant as God defines it. Marriage gives a man and his wife the right to the sexual union, but only with their lawful spouse.

[Ezek. 23; Jer. 3; Prov. 5:15-20; 6:29,32; 7:18-20; Ezek. 16:32; 1 Cor. 7:1-9].

Romans 7:2,3

In this marriage covenant, the woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives (cf. 1 Cor. 7:39). The marriage "bond" is a lifetime covenant commitment, and God holds people to the commitment they made, even if later they try to break it.

Note that the passage says a woman may be "bound" to one man, but "married" to another man! The "bond" refers to the marriage covenant that God holds you to. "Marriage" refers to the relationship you are living in as recognized by civil law and society. The two may be the same, but not necessarily. In this case, the woman was "bound" to one man but "married" to a completely different man!

That is why a woman is guilty of adultery if she is married to another man. Adultery, by definition, refers to sexual intercourse between two people, one of whom is bound by a marriage covenant to somebody else [see definitions in notes on Matt. 19:9].

This woman is an "adulteress" because she has been joined in a marriage covenant with one man, and God holds her to that covenant for life. But she is having sexual relations with another man, and that, by definition, is adultery. This passage defines adultery for us!

Note that anytime she has sexual relations with a man other than her scriptural mate it is adultery - as long as her first companion is living, the passage says. Whether she has just a single act of intercourse, or has an "affair" involving a number of adulterous acts over a period of time, or whether it is a second marriage to another man - in any case every time she has sexual union with another man the passage says she is guilty of adultery.

This is "adultery" because the woman is Scripturally committed to have the sexual union only with one man as long as he lives, but instead she is having it with another man. This is why it is proper to refer to the second marriage as "adulterous" or "living in adultery," just as it would be if she were living with him but not married to him (Col. 3:5-7).

Matthew 19:3-9

What reason is given why remarriage is forbidden and why it is called "adultery"? Because God declared man and woman should cleave to one another. He joins them (by witnessing their marriage covenant and holding them to it). He forbids their changing their mind and says no man can put their marriage asunder.

So, if man puts away his wife and marries another, the second marriage is "adultery" because he is having the sexual union with a second wife while God still holds him obligated to his covenant to have the sexual union only with his first wife.

Note again: the terms "marry" and "divorce" (or "put away," and also "husband" and "wife") as used here and elsewhere, refer to the relationship as viewed by society and the law of the land. In a first marriage, both God and society recognize the marriage commitment to exist between the man and woman. They are both "married" in the eyes of society and "joined" ("bound") in the eyes of God.

Society and civil law may then grant them a "divorce" (not for fornication) and they may "marry" again. Society and civil law then views them as free from their first marriage and entered into a second one, and the Bible calls this "divorced" ("put away") and "married" again. But though God uses these terms as society does, He does not recognize the divorce as making a valid end to the covenant commitment that He recognized in the first marriage. God still considers them "bound" or "joined" or held accountable for the commitment of the first marriage (v6).

There is a definite distinction between the covenant commitment (bond) which God recognizes and the divorce and marriage which civil law recognizes. (cf. Mk. 6:17,18)

Again, the second marriage is "adultery" because the person is still joined in God's eyes to his/her first spouse, but they are having a sexual relationship with a second spouse. That is adultery, and it will continue to be adultery every time they have the sexual relationship, because God has still "joined" them to their first spouse and He will not "put asunder" that bond.

1 Corinthians 7:10,11

This explains why, if a woman divorces her husband, she still has no right to remarry. She may get divorced in the eyes of civil law, and God calls it "divorce" and says she is now "unmarried." But that does not free her from her bond or covenant obligation to her first husband. Since she is still bound to her first marriage covenant, her only choice then is to be reconciled to her husband (the one God recognizes) or else remain unmarried.

Sexual relationship outside of a Scriptural marriage bond constitutes fornication (v2-5). Hence, if the woman divorces and remarries, that second marriage, as long as it lasted and as long as her first husband was still alive, would constitute adultery.

Understanding these principles will be vital to reaching proper applications and answers to other questions we will deal with.

[Note that adultery involves a sexual act - John 8:4; Heb. 13:4; Prov. 6:20-35. It is not just the act of divorcing and remarrying that is adultery.]

C. God Allows an Exception to the General Rule When One's Spouse Has Been Guilty of Fornication.

This exception is clearly stated in Matthew 19:9 (and 5:32).

"Whosoever shall put away his wife, except for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery" ("saving for the cause of fornication" - Matt. 5:32).

The question originally asked Jesus concerned the grounds or cause for which a man may divorce his wife (v3). In v9 Jesus clearly says there is no acceptable cause except if ones companion has been guilty of fornication.

Unlike the Mosaic Law, which Jesus admits tolerated divorce and remarriage for other causes, Jesus' teaching allows one and only one cause.

Note that the only one who is granted the right to divorce and remarry without being guilty of sin is the one who has been sinned against by his/her companion who committed fornication.

What is fornication?

Definitions: "illicit sexual intercourse in general" (Thayer); "every kind of unlawful sexual intercourse" (Arndt and Gingrich). Fornication includes any form of sexual intercourse with anyone other than ones scriptural spouse, regardless of whether that person be of the opposite sex or of the same sex. Note passages that explain the meaning:

1 Corinthians 7:2-5 - To avoid fornication, one is to satisfy the sexual desire with and only with "his own wife" or "her own husband." Our own marriage companion is the only one who has power over our body. If we satisfy this desire with anyone else, the passage says it would be fornication, whether it be with someone we are not married to, someone else's husband or wife, or someone else of the same sex (i.e., homosexuality). (See also Heb. 13:4).

Jude 7 - Sodom and Gomorrah gave themselves over to fornication. But Gen. 19 shows this refers to homosexuality (men wanted to lie with men, not with women) ["and going after strange flesh" has the significance of even going after...]. Therefore, homosexuality is a form of fornication, and would be scriptural grounds for one's companion to obtain a divorce and remarry.

Some say fornication would not include adultery (i.e., the case in which one who is married has relations with someone not their spouse). But the following passages use "fornication" to include extra-marital sex: 1 Cor. 5:1; Amos 7:17; Ezek. 16:8,15,26,29; Jer. 3:6,8. Jesus used "fornication" in order to include, not just extra-marital sex, but also premarital sex and homosexuality - any form of illicit sexual intercourse.

When a man and woman marry, they make a covenant to have the sexual relationship only with one another and with no one else (of the same or opposite sex) as long as they both shall live. If one companion violates that covenant by having sexual relations with any person other than their own spouse, he/she has violated the marriage covenant in such a way that God grants their partner the right to divorce them and remarry.

The New Testament teaching regarding divorce and remarriage can be summarized like this: When a man and woman marry, they enter into a lifetime covenant in which God binds or joins them, holding them accountable to keep this covenant. If there is a divorce for some cause other than fornication, God's will is violated; and if either or both remarry, the second marriage relationship(s) is (are) adultery because God still holds the people bound to the first marriage commitment. If during the first marriage, however, one companion commits fornication, then the other companion may choose to obtain a divorce and remarry ey both shall live. If one companion violates that covenant by having sexual relations with any person other than their own spouse, he/she has violated the marriage covenant in such a way that God grants their partner the right to divorce them and remarry.

The New Testament teaching regarding divorce and remarriage can be summarized like this: When a man and woman marry, they enter into a lifetime covenant in which God binds or joins them, holding them accountable to keep this covenant. If there is a divorce for some cause other than fornication, God's will is violated; and if either or both remarry, the second marriage relationship(s) is (are) adultery because God still holds the people bound to the first marriage commitment. If during the first marriage, however, one companion commits fornication, then the other companion may choose to obtain a divorce and remarry without sin.

This is my last post to this thread.

This is a strict warning.

Men will be judged according to whether or not we have conformed our lives to His will (John 12:48). Man's will often differs from God's (Prov. 14:12; Isa. 55:8,9; 2 Cor. 10:12,18; Lk. 16:15,18). Since the Bible reveals God's will, we must learn what it says about divorce and remarriage (2 Tim. 3:16,17; 1 Cor. 14:37; Eph. 3:3-5; 2 Pet. 1:21).

Does God hate Divorce?

Malachi 2:16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away (Strong's # 7971): for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.

This verse does not say "God hates divorce" as many incorrectly tell us. In Hebrew, the word is shalach (Strong's # 7971) which means to send, send away, let go, stretch out. The word which means divorce, dismissal, divorcement, (Strong's # 3748) ker-ee-thooth is not used here.

Nowhere in the Scriptures are these two terms used interchangeably. The Hebrew word for “divorce” (Strong's # 3748) in Deuteronomy 24:1 is found in only two other verses: Isaiah 50:1, and Jeremiah 3:8.

Deuteronomy 24:1, Isaiah 50:1 and Jeremiah 3:8 are the only three verses where the Hebrew word for “divorce” can be found in the Old Testament.
In Malachi 2:16 this word is not used.

The Hebrew word ker-ee-thooth translated “divorce” is a very specific term, and is always used in conjunction with the term “bill,” “writ,” or “certificate.” The Hebrew word translated “sent out” or “put away” is a very common term and is used nearly a thousand times in the Old Testament.

There is no interchangeability between these two Hebrew words. One could not be divorced without being put away. Yet, one could be put away without being divorced. It is this latter condition that was addressed by the Prophet Malachi.

The Holy Spirit-inspired Hebrew word used here in Malachi 2:16 is correctly translated as 'putting away'. The treachery committed by these men was not in divorcing their wives, but rather in that they were putting their wives away without a certificate of divorce. In their vindictiveness, they were putting their wives in a horrible no win predicament. If the wives had “remarried” or had attached themselves to another man, they would have been subject to stoning for adultery since without a certificate of divorce they were still lawfully married to their first husband. If they would not commit adultery then these women were left to fend for themselves which was nearly impossible under the conditions of that time.

God hates this treacherous act of 'putting away'. The hardness of these men’s hearts resulted in their sinful course of action toward their wives.

Divorce was God's merciful provision for wives who were being treacherously dealt with. It was also a judgement against men and their hardness of heart as they had become covenant breakers of the marriage covenant.

The Law of God regarding divorce is still His merciful provision for some, as well as a judgement against those covenant breakers who persist in impenitence and hardness of heart.

There are many who erroneously conclude and believe that Jesus changed the law on divorce under the New Covenant. "But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully." (1 Tim. 1:8) But there are many, "wishing to be teachers of law, neither understanding what they say, nor about that which they confidently affirm" (1 Tim. 1:7). "So indeed the Law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good" (Rom. 7:12).

To those who'd pit the spirit of the Law against the Word written, the same verses above apply to you. We do not serve a divided Trinity. These three(The Father,The Word,The Spirit) agree and are in one mind. It is the Spirit which gives understanding and the ability to correctly interpret the Law of God which is the Word of God Who became flesh and tabernacled among us.

He said,in full agreement with His Father,

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , let him give her a writing of divorcement (Strong's # 647) Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away (Strong's # 630) his wife , saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced (Strong's # 630) committeth adultery.

Strong's number 630 (apoluo) does not mean divorce, but separate. Strong's number 647 (apostasion) means divorce.

This verse should read:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife , saving for the cause of fornication , causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is put away committeth adultery.

If a lawful divorce had been secured this woman nor the man who married her would be guilty of adultery.

Even so,such would not excuse nor justify the sin of covenant breaking which led up to and resulted in the lawful divorce.

As for those who'd make their argument from their experience and/or the experience of others, "To the Law, and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word: it is because there is no light in them"(Isa. 8:20).

I refuse to enter into controversy or argument based upon one's experience, as one's experience is not an argument.

This question looms upon the heads of those who equate all divorce and remarriage as being sinful,

According to the Scriptures and the whole counsel of God from Genesis to Revelation, what is a lawful divorce and what does it do?

If the ones persisting in the erroneous teaching of no divorce or remarriage under any circumstances say that those who are remarried are not condemned, they are being inconsistent and dishonest. If they believe this teaching they ought to believe its ramifications as some others who do, and go the full extent of their false teaching.

But I would say to them and their inconsistent disciples,

Believe what you will but don't call it God's Truth.

It seems that some erroneous data was given in this thread.

Strong's H7971 (שלח) shalach (The word translated as putting away in Malachi)
According to blueletterbible the words Biblical usage is:
1) to send, send away, let go, stretch out
a) (Qal)
1) to send
2) to stretch out, extend, direct
3) to send away
4) to let loose

b) (Niphal) to be sent
c) (Piel)
1) to send off or away or out or forth, dismiss, give over, cast out
2) to let go, set free
3) to shoot forth (of branches)
4) to let down
5) to shoot
d) (Pual) to be sent off, be put away, be divorced, be impelled
e) (Hiphil) to send

Strong's G630 (ἀπολύω) apolyō (the word for putting away in Matt 5:32)
According to blueletterbible the words Biblical usage is:
1) to set free
2) to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer)
a) a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer
b) to bid depart, send away
3) to let go free, release
a) a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart
b) to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty
c) indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart
d) to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt
4) used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband.
5) to send one's self away, to depart

In both of these instances I see that both Strong's and Gesenius's Lexicon see the word as being used in reference to divorce. To simply say that either of these does not refer to divorce would be incorrect.

God guide us deeper into His word, and into a deeper relationship with His Son Jesus Christ.
Jason

Let's not talk about 'what' the Jewish people believed, let's go to the source.....

All the following is taken from the website of [url=http://www.chabad.org/]Chabag.org[/url]. [i]Chabad.org is a division of the Chabad-Lubavitch Media Center[/i]

[b]Rules of the [i]Get[/i] Document[/b]

By Naftali Silberberg

The [i]get[/i] is a document which states the husband's intent to "release, discharge, and divorce" his wife. In it he declares to her that "no person may object against you from this day onward, and you are permitted to every man." (1) The following are the basic rules of the [i]get[/i] document:

* The [i]get[/i] is written on paper by an expert scribe, using permanent ink and quill. The calligraphy lettering required does not allow for the use of a pen. Before writing the [i]get[/i], the scribe uses a sharp tool to etch twelve horizontal lines on the paper, which will guide him when he writes the [i]get[/i]. Beneath the twelve lines he etches two small lines, where the witnesses will attach their signatures. He also etches margin lines on the two sides of the paper. The writing on the [i]get[/i] is justified, every line starting and ending at these predetermined margins.

**removed 4 paragraphs (see full article)

* It is also an age-old tradition for the body of the [i]get[/i] to be written in twelve lines. The witnesses sign on the lines beneath the text. Several reasons are given for this ancient custom. Among them: The numerical value of the Hebrew word "[i]get[/i]" is twelve. [b]Also, the twelve lines signify the woman's freedom to now marry any member of any of the twelve tribes.[/b](4) {**bold emphasis by Lysa, not the author.}

**removed last 3 paragraphs (see full article)

FOOTNOTES
4. \tAlthough a divorcee is precluded from marrying a [i]Kohen[/i], she may marry any other member of the root tribe of Levi.
[url=http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/557910/jewish/Rules-of-the-Get-Document.htm]Rules of the Get Document[/url].

__________________
[i][b]The "Get"[/b]

According to biblical law, a married couple is released from the bonds of matrimony only through the transmission of a bill of divorce from the husband to the wife. This document, commonly known by its Aramaic name, "get," serves not only as a proof of the dissolution of the marriage in the event that one or both wish to remarry, it actually effects the divorce.[/i]
From: [url=http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/557906/jewish/Divorce-Basics.htm]Divorce Basics[/url]

[b]Other articles [/b]
[url=http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/560109/jewish/The-Right-to-Divorce.htm]The Right to Divorce[/url]

[url=http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/557909/jewish/In-Depth-Study.htm]In-Depth Study of Divorce[/url]

-[b]Rules of the [i]Get[/i] Document[/b]-

By Naftali Silberberg

-[b]The Bible[/b]-

By God

:-)

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=20443&forum=48&post_id=&refresh=Go]An Evangelical Rethink on Divorce? [/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=18583&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Your Thoughts[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=16858&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]The husband of one wife[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1923&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Marriage, Divorce, and ReMarriage.. Toward a Biblical Perspective[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=1861&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Divorce and Re Marriage[/url]

Some older threads.

Savannah, some very good study you have presented.

I would recommend Ron Bailey's study wherever it may be found.

In my case, God gave me the word from Mal 2:16niv , from a natural perspective, there was no hope, we were done. But when I got that word, it wasn't Law to me, It showed that God is on the side of marriage, so I decided to hate divorce too, and trust Him to heal our marriage, it was the toughest emotional thing I have ever went through, but within two months, we were back together, and after twenty five years, we have never looked back. Our love for one another is still growing. I could have, and it seemed easier, at the time, thrown it all away. Our God is for us, he will heal your marriage.
For those who are re married, God is full of love and mercy, and forgiveness, cast your past at the cross.

Love in CHRIST tom

Is there any biblical precedence for re-marriage, other than the death of a spouse ?

==========
Yes
Deut 24:1-4.
Right when divorce is shown as dissolving the marriage covenant.

But we arent Hosea who was instructed to take a wife of whoredoms for a purpose, are we ?
Apples and oranges.

Secondly, while God does want us to keep our vows, Numbers 30 shows us that He does understand that someone else can keep us from being able to fulfill those vows and in such a case we can be released from the obligation of that vow and the guilty party held responsible for it being broken instead.

Here is a study I have read on the subject of divorce and remarriage; I am not a cessationist concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit the way this person is, but I thought some valid points were being made, so I post it for review.

Instead of a large cut and paste, here is the link.

[url=http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/2338.htm]Jesus' Teaching on Divorce[/url]