Is this song doctrinally sound?

This morning I read a post by a dear struggling Christian who stated: “God showed me so much last night, i have been drowning in self-pity”. [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=28067&forum=44]Holly Rejoices[/url] She was full of joy because she had repented and was clean. Thank God!

I have felt for many years that many of the problems plaguing Christians today have to do with a lot of the music that modern Christians listen to.

Below I have copied a popular modern “Christian” song.

Do you believe that it is doctrinally correct, or could it be that such songs promote the defeated “self pity syndrome” that many Christians suffer?

According to Paris Reidhead, secular humanism teaches that the end of all being is the happiness of man, whereas; the true Biblical concept teaches that the end of all being is the glory of God. I agree with brother Reidhead.

What about this song? Is it Biblically correct? To me it paints a picture of a universe where man is the center, and everything revolves around him, and he is the most important issue in the universe.

How do you see it?

He's Watching Me
By Gaither Vocal Band

He has Jupiter for a pillow,
an angel choir for a lullaby,
clouds for a blanket,
and the moon is his night light.
But he don't ever sleep,
'cause he's busy watching over me.
He rules the universe, from his throne on high.
But when I need attention, he is by my side,
He's watching me. Yes, he's watching me.

He's a busy God but on his list of things to do,
his number one priority is watching me and you.
He's taking care of business, feeding birds and making rain.
But he'll stop what he's doing when I speak his name.
Cause he's watching, he's watching me.

He might be busy painting rainbows,
or making demons flee.
But he'll still find the time to make some time for you and me.
There's nothing, no no nothing, he would rather do.
Well he knows when I'm in trouble, he don't miss a beat.
One eye's on that sparrow and the other one's on me,
He's watching me. Yes, he's watching me.

He's a busy God but on his list of things to do,
his number one priority is watching me and you.
He's taking care of business, feeding birds and making rain.
But he'll stop what he's doing when I speak his name.
He's a busy God but on his list of things to do,
his number one priority is watching me and you.
He's taking care of business, feeding birds and making rain.
But he'll stop what he's doing when I speak his name.
Cause he's watching, he's watching me. Yes he's watching, he'swatching me.
Well, he's watching, he's watching me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syiVTxFb0WE

Eh, I wouldn't want to sing it.

I think singing psalms with a metrical psalter would be much more beneficial, as well as doctrinally infallible.

With care in Christ,
Taylor

I prefer these types of songs:

Lord, I am vile, conceived in sin,
And born unholy and unclean;
Sprung from the man whose guilty fall
Corrupts the race, and taints us all.

Soon as we draw our infant breath,
The seeds of sin grow up for death;
Thy law demands a perfect heart,
But we’re defiled in every part.

Great God, create my heart anew,
And form my spirit pure and true;
O make me wise betimes to spy
My danger and my remedy.

Behold, I fall before Thy face;
My only refuge is Thy grace;
No outward forms can make me clean;
The leprosy lies deep within.

No bleeding bird, nor bleeding beast,
Nor hyssop branch, nor sprinkling priest,
Nor running brook, nor flood, nor sea,
Can wash the dismal stain away.

Jesus, my God, Thy blood alone
Hath power sufficient to atone;
Thy blood can make me white as snow;
No Jewish types could cleanse me so.

While guilt disturbs and breaks my peace,
Nor flesh nor soul hath rest or ease;
Lord, let me hear Thy pardoning voice,
And make my broken bones rejoice.

- Isaac Watts, 1719

I personally don't care for the song you mentioned here. My favorite song is this one:Will you Follow Me?

If you want to be a follower of mine

You must leave self behind

You must take up your cross and come with Me

If you fear for your own safety, you are lost

But take up your cross

For My sake and you will find true life

Chorus:

Will you follow Me?

It will cost more than you think

Can you drink the cup that I drink?

Will you follow Me?

Will you follow Me?

A servant only shares the portion of his Lord

You can be assured

Men will hate you as they’ve hated Me

The time is coming when they’ll think they do

God’s will by killing you

But he who’s faithful to the end is saved

(chorus)

Living water welling up from deep within

Forgiveness of your sin

The tree of life to eat from as you wish

A hundred times more than you’ll ever lose

My gift to those who choose

To reject the trinkets of this world

2nd Chorus:

Will you follow Me?

More blessings for those who believe

Than you even can conceive!

Will you follow Me?

Will you follow Me?

Eternal Light! Eternal Light!
How pure the soul must be,
when, placed within Thy searching sight,
it shrinks not, but with calm delight
can live and look on Thee.

The spirits that surround Thy throne
may bear the burning bliss,
but that is surely theirs alone,
since they have never, never known
a fallen world like this.

Yet how shall I whose native sphere
is dark, whose mind is dim,
before the Ineffable appear
and on my naked spirit bear
the uncreated beam?

There is a way for man to rise
to that sublime abode:
An offering, a sacrifice,
a Holy Spirit's energies,
an Advocate with God.

These, these prepare us for the sight
of Holiness above:
The sons of ignorance and night
may behold the Eternal Light
through the Eternal Love.

James Binney

They don't write 'em like that anymore.

Paul, that Isaac Watts song is so full of goodness.

It's hard to "instruct one another" through songs if the lyrics are an inch deep, or worse, outright erroneous. Like, "His number one priority is watching me and you."

Someone must have missed the memo, "He does all things for His glory."

This includes making and saving humans,

"Bring My sons from afar, and My daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by My name, and [b]whom I have created for My glory[/b]." Isa. 43:7

YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its just your usual humanistic fluff disguised as the gospel.

.

Dawn,

I hope that you didn’t think that my purpose for presenting the question was to bash one of your favorite songs. I hope to remain loyal to the description of this forum: ("Test everything, Hold on to the good." - 1 Thess 5:21. Here you will find discussions on all different scriptures and theological positions. Please discuss with an spirit of edification not dissention or strife.). There was a time when I liked the song too, but I hadn’t stopped to examine it. I know many people who like the song, and like songs like it. It can give you an “emotional high” if you let it, but the very reason that I presented the question was to examine what this emotionally exhilarating song is actually doing to the inside of you.

Take, for example, the song that brother Paul presented. You could say that it might “make you feel like dirt” [Lord, I am vile, conceived in sin, And born unholy and unclean; Sprung from the man whose guilty fall Corrupts the race, and taints us all. . . . ], but it is ONLY when we realize that we are nothing but dirt that the seeds of God’s Word can grow in us and eventually produce fruit. If we aren’t softened by that reality, then we are like the hard beaten path, or the stony ground, or the thorny ground. We can never become anything that brings glory to God.

Thanks so much for ALL of the great songs on this thread. Songs that spotlight tiny aspects of God’s unfathomable infinite greatness while confessing our absolute nothingness bring glory to God, and put man in his proper perspective. Dust thou art. Morally, physically, spiritually and in every way we are dirt and filth! If we allow God to throw His good seed into us, and something good grows from it, the only goodness will be that which God put there. When God’s goodness grows up in us and covers us, the dirt is no longer seen, yet we remain soft-hearted enough that we live with the realization that we are mere dirt.

Dawn, it is my prayer that you and others will realize the danger of “feeding” on such songs as this. This song has given you a concept of God that is not really true to the God of the Bible. WHAT WILL YOU DO if next month God’s wrath falls on your beloved country, and everything gets “out of control”. If persecutors arrive at your door, drag you out in your yard, strip you, and torture you until you die a painful death, will you then think that God has forsaken you? Will you die thinking that He must not exist because He didn’t drop what He was doing and stop the marauders?

Dawn, ever day (God bless their hearts) Christians in other countries face similar trauma. You can read about it on this website: [url=http://www.persecution.org/suffering/index.php ]VOM[/url] PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE examine what you are listening to. Such songs will be like the rocks beneath your soil. When the sun comes out and scorches your life, your roots will not be deep enough to stand the test. I have seen it too many times. God calls us to examine ourselves, and to examine the fruit of the "trees" that call themselves ministers: Matt 7:15-20.

Thanks theopenlife for the scripture Isa. 43:7 and commentary which clarifies the whole issue. God’s number one priority is made very clear in that verse. So true, Jesus-is-God: “HE never needs to stop doing anything to do something else - HE's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent - and ALWAYS "with us". All the words in this song humanizes HIM.”

Thanks for your input

"He might be busy painting rainbows,
or making demons flee."

What are they thinking? They must have been desperate to fill out an album and took anything that sounded like a 'God' song.

Give me the old hymns, Holy, Holy Holy (a wonderful song of praise, great for singing in the early morning) and What a Friend we have in Jesus (carried with me on 4 x 6 cards, can't tell you the comfort I have received just reading 1/2 a verse when at the eye doctor on Monday).

So, Yes, I agree with you, today's so called 'Christian' music is depressing. There is no Gospel in it, no wonder it is depressing. How can you be Spirit filled from the image of God the Gaither Vocal Band paints? Sounds more like a Fairy from a childs book.

Give me the songs sung by the old paths. The straight and narrow path!

Regards,
white stone

Hello Taylor,

You have now hooked me on this. I have to get a book like that of the whole Bible.

What a marvelous thing, I wonder why it is not brought out to view? Let us sing Psalms, now I see how it could be done. Amazing.

white stone

Hi WhiteStone,

There are several quality Psalters available.

A search for "The Comprehensive Psalter" should turn up some results - it is published by Blue Banner Books.

"Psalms of David For Singing" is also good. It is published by Crown and Covenant Publications.

The Comprehensive Psalter is primarily in common metre for easy singing. I think the majority of the Psalter is basically a reprint of the 1650 Scottish Psalter.

I personally own both of these Psalters and recommend both.

Thankfully, a family has recorded 50 common metre tunes while singing the first few lines of the first 50 psalms, so you can learn a lot that way, and interchange them how you like. Also, both of the psalters I listed contain the music, just as a hymnal would. I will include the link at the bottom.

I don't say this to cause a stir, but just to present a historical fact. In the historic Reformed churches, psalms were actually sung [b]exclusively[/b]. The singing of the words of men was considered improper for corporate worship. They only sung infallible songs. This is actually still the practice of many conservative Reformed Presbyterian churches. They viewed "psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs" to refer to the name distinctions given to the psalms in the Book of Psalms.

Given the choice of singing the words of God or singing the words of man, I choose the words of God.

50 Psalm Tunes: https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11801194222

Crown and Covenant Publications: http://www.crownandcovenant.com/

Comprehensive Psalter:
http://www.fpcr.org/catalog/catalog-online.htm

Scottish Metrical Psalter Online (Free): http://www.cgmusic.com/workshop/smp_frame.htm

With care in Christ,
Taylor

Dear Brother Taylor,

Thank you for the links.

white stone

Hi Neil,

For what's it's worth, the phrase "Jewish types" wasn't meant as a derogatory reference to Jewish people but was referring to Old Testament Christological "types"; those parts of Jewish scripture and religious practice that serve as specific and uncanny foreshadows pointing to the living Messiah. (the antitype.) Watts was echoing Paul when he said "For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins."

So, there is nothing back-handed to Jewish people in the lyrics of Watt's song, nor in Paul's West decision to include it here.

MC

http://www.rhapsody.com/player?type=track&id=tra.24289189&remote=false&page=&pageregion=&guid=&from=&hasrhapx=false&__pcode=

Try this one on for size; To me this stands up to any old hymn that has been writen, of which I love also.,

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© 2001-2008 Listen.com, a subsidiary of RealNetworks

In Christ: Phillip

IF a song is Not "Scirptually sound" - then we are exposing our spirits to "false doctrine."

[b][size=medium]AMEN![/size][/b]

Jesus-is-God,

Although I don't know my heart, as stated in Jer. 17:9-10, I hope that your description of my motive for this post is what God sees. It grieves me when I read reports from the mission field http://www.joshuaproject.net/ that nearly 2 billion people have still not heard the message of God's salvation. I remember reading from Hudson Taylor's works about a Chinese man who asked him: "and how long has your people known about Jesus?" When he told him "for several hundred years", he said "my dad died after spending his whole life searching in several religions for what you have now given to me . . . and you are just now bringing it to us?"

Subtle "me centered" theology that is woven into our songs takes our focus off of declaring His glory among the heathen Psalms 96:3 and keeps us worried about our personal feelings.

With the dosage of the gospel that America alone has been exposed to, and with the resources that we have available, we should have already declared His glory to ALL the heathen! Instead of praying for laborers to be sent into the harvest . . . we are busy praying for God to keep our moods in an up-swing, HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY because otherwise, we feel defeated in this "all about me" gospel that Brother Reidhead describes in "10 shekels and a shirt".

Neil,

I will try to answer some of your questions to me if I can. I realize that not all of your frustration was for me, but for some who replied to this post. I cannot answer for them, but as I stated to Jesus-is-God, I hope that my motives are as he described them, although God is the only One who knows motives Jer. 17:9-10.

"Lorddoitagain", why would you even deign to make such a post? You had your answer, you knew your answer, so why ask the question? To recieve a chorus of "yes" and "amens" from fellow saints as they heap scorn on an artist expressing his love for God as he is led to?

I am accustomed to reading discussions on SI that are FILLED with Bible references. I hoped to get more Bible feedback than opinion. One brother brought up:

"Bring My sons from afar, and My daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by My name, and whom I have created for My glory." Isa. 43:7

which supports the concepts that Paris Reidhead outlined in "10 Shekels and a Shirt" regarding humanism and its leavening of our Christian concepts in this modern world.

Have you ever heard Brother Reidhead's message? If so, you might more fully understand my concern about "me centered" theology in our music.

That's the problem plaguing many Christians? The "music" they listen to?

I feel that many of the problems have to do with the music . . . but that is not the only one. Any form of communication (singing, preaching, drama, writing, etc.) that communicates the leaven that Jesus told us to beware of Matthew 16:11 should be avoided. Notice: he said the leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees. They represented two extremes of theology: "legalism", and "live as you please for tomorrow we die". You may think that this forum leans toward Phariseeism because we "prove all things", but if you notice on the discussions, both types of error are questioned on this forum.

I'm on my way to a church service in Spanish . . . but I have more to share. Brother I LOVE God's people the Jews. As I child someone gifted me a cassette of songs form "Jews for Jesus", and it was almost the only music that I listened to for many years.

I am so sorry for what others have done under the banner "Christian" agianst God's chosen people Israel, but I can't change that. I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive. I have had to forgive terrible things against myself . . . but I've never known such slaughter against my own kinsmen as you have. I will be praying for your heart to heal in regards to those terrible atrocities.

Sincerely,

Michael Strickland

Hi everyone,

Some things in the words of the song reminded me of Deuteronomy 32:10, Ps 17:8, and Zechariah 2:8.

It seems to me that there is at least a twofold sense of the word truth as it may apply here: one, in the sense of the soundness of the words that are sung and two in the sense of the honesty of the one singing.

I was reminded of a story that Pastor Wurmbrand tells in one of the messages available here. I might get some of these details wrong so please keep that in mind, but as I remember it, he was sharing about visiting in a home with someone from a congregation that he either spoke at or attended for some reason, and at some point he asks them for their hymnbook so that they could sing. When the man replied that they did not have one he asked him 'then why did you lie?'.

The man asked him what he was talking about, and he recalled how in the worship they had sung 'O for a thousand tongues to sing' and he said to him, 'why did you lie; if you only sing praises to God once a week then one tongue is more than enough'.

It seems to me that God could be offended as much with truthful words sung dishonestly as anything else.

Or that He even could be more pleased with simple, but less doctrinally full words, that are sung with a heart full of faith and love towards Him.

It seems to me also that words rich in doctrine [b]can[/b] have a hardnening effect on the heart if they are sung out of obligation, repetition, ritual form and tradition.

I suppose too that among the many resources that we have in America are millions and millions of Hymnbooks.

Some of you may know that I began as a Christian at an Apostolic Pentecostal Church. We didn't have any hymnbooks and most of the songs that were sung were sung from memory. They were usually very simple and easy to remember. But they were also very easy to sing with all the heart.

One of my favorites was like this:

Order my steps in Your Word dear Lord

Lead me

Guide me

Every Day

Send Your anointing Father I pray

Order my steps in Your Word.

how do you think I feel when I read that rhetoric?

Amen to Compton's post. Well put, brother.

Watts's hymn is lovely, indeed. It exalts Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God.

I was once invited to partake of a Passover seder with a messianic Jewish family, and that was a great example of the use of "types" or "shadows" of the substance of Christ; the shadows or types of Christ are everywhere found in the Old Testament.

The gospel was given to the Jew first. I thank God that He made room for me among the children of Abraham through the blood of Christ.

In addition to what Compton shared from Hebrews, Rom 5:14 and Heb 11:19 and Col2:17 contain the use of the word "figure" or "type" or "shadow" (depending upon your translation) in the sense of what Watts was conveying in his hymn.

May we sharpen one another as iron sharpens iron. This was altogether a good thread in that sense.

Grace and peace.

Jesus-is-God wrote:

If anyone wants to live on a steady diet of unsound doctrine, that is there perogative - but I know from the testimonies of those being Persecuted, Tortured or having any form of brain damage - that "music" from GOD's Word [such as good hymns] has gotten them through - very much so.

Brother, my mom worked and ministered in a nursing home for many years. Often, they had patients whose minds were so "far gone" with dimentia that they couldn't even talk. Those same patients would attend a church service in the activity room, and when old familiar songs were being sung, they would join in and sing with the rest of them.

We will not understand all about it until we get on the other side, but somehow music is a very important thing for us while on this journey home. As stated in Col 3:16, it is a method that God commands us to use to teach and admonish. The ministry of teaching is one of the 5 gifts to the church in Eph 4:11.

One of the reasons for the great success of the Methodist movement is that while John Wesley was preaching the message, Charles Wesley was busy teaching the message (our 2-fold Great commission Matt 28:19 & Mark 16:15) in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs.

To me, the command in Col 3:16 mirrors the Old Testament command in Deut. 6:6-7. With the event of modern technology, many people are constantly hearing music [in the house, sitting, lying down, rising up, walking - or riding in a car]. With that constant teaching, what are we engraving on our hearts? "Me-centered" theology? I hope not!!!

I agree whole-heartedly with the comments on the hymn "Lord, I Am Vile, Conceived In Sin". Does anyone know of a link to a recording of it? I didn't find the music played on cyber-hymnal.

I believe that I "understand where you're coming from, ChrisJD:

It seems to me that God could be offended as much with truthful words sung dishonestly as anything else. Or that He even could be more pleased with simple, but less doctrinally full words, that are sung with a heart full of faith and love towards Him.

I believe that there is a need for all kinds of songs . . . the deep, doctrinally packed ones, and the more simple ones [perhaps the difference in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs]. . . as long as there is not leaven in the message. Some have need of milk while others are eating solid meat.

I agree, wayneman:

They don't write 'em like that anymore.

It is a sad truth, but if you think about the generation that we live in now . . . most modern people don't have the attention span nor the intellect to digest such songs. A "TV raised" generation is accustomed to fast action . . . jumping from one thing to another . . . never "slowing down" enough to digest a deep subject. We who were taught in public schools in America were subjected to a system which some believe has purposefully "dumbed down" this generation. In order to fully grasp such songs, we'd have to get a dictionary out.

Yet, while many in our generation don't even "have a clue" of the depths of treasures that the older generation enjoyed . . . billions on our planet have never heard the simple gospel message that Jesus the Son of God died to take away our sins.

We have a lot to pray about!

Hi again everyone,

I wanted to share something else with you all.

Neil had suggested this,

"...some of you use framing words, such as "humanism" just like razors to cut and wound others."

I think that is something that we should consider. I think also that it is possible for us to become extreme in the positions that we take and that we can become unescessarily harsh in our judgments of whatever does not go far enough to what we are holding, and even cruel to those that do not follow it.

I thought of the Pharasiees that rejected and reviled the man that was born blind after the Lord Jesus had restored his sight - on the sabbath day.

Yes, we have need of being zealous for the glory of God, and for truth. But too, we have need of compassion and of being tenderhearted to one another. And of patience and carefulness in our judgments.

I don't mean to say that any of this pertains to any of you, but I hope it will be alright to offer these things to consider also.

There is a great variety of life, and emotion, expressed in the scripture. Count the number of times we read 'I' or 'me' or 'my' in the 23rd Psalm. But we would not say that David was a humanist or saying that man was the ultimate measure of things. But he does say that God is his Shepherd.

Of course God does not need a night light, but He did give the moon to us as one(Gen 1:14-17.)

He doesn't need Jupiter for a pillow, but He doesn't have wings for us to shelter under either(Ps 17:8).

God wouldn't have need of jewelery or gold(Mal 3:17). And could it even be imagined that God would sing over us(Zeph 3:17)?

I don't mean to share these things to make a defence for this song. But I hope that it will be alright to consider these things also.

Wish you all well,

Chris