What do you believe about the anti Christ and why?

you can email me and I will email you this study along with plenty of other info. if you like at voicesofmercy@yahoo.com GOD BLESS YOU REALLY NEED THE CHARTS AND PICTURES FOR A MORE CLEAR UNDER STANDING.Revelation 1:3
Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Daniel 7:4 – The Lion of Babylon\t\t\t\t\t
"The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle\t\t
. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from
the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the
heart of a man was given to it.\t

Daniel 7:5 – Bear of Medo-Persia
"And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a
bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs
in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, 'Get up and eat your
fill of flesh!'

Daniel 7:6 – Leopard of Greece
"After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast,
one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four
wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it
was given authority to rule.
The four heads were generals over Egypt, Syria, Turkey and Greece.

Daniel 7:7 – Roman Beast with 7 Heads and 10 Horns
"After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

Rev. 13:1-10 \t\tBeast That Comes Out Of The Sea

Revelations13:1 The Sea is Multitudes of People
And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

Western European Union are the only members with voting power and militaries. They are also know as the modified Brussels Treaty. 10 NATIONS\t\t\t\t\t\t\tTHE 10 HORN BEAST

Daniel 7:8 One Horn Will Rise
“While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth that spoke boastfully.”

Javier Solana Higher Representative of the United Nations
Javier Solana appointed to Higher Representative in 1999.
Revelations 13:18
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.
Recommendation 666
More political intrigue was to come. On June 5, 2000, the 10 WEU nations adopted their Assembly Recommendation 666. The importance of this document was to recommend to the Council of the European Union that the 10 Brussels Treaty powers should be kept together as the EU’s new military wing. It also recommended giving the High Representative emergency powers — powers even the EU’s president doesn’t have. Since Solana was Secretary General of both the WEU and the Council, Recommendation 666 was actually Solana recommending action to Solana. We learned of Recommendation 666 and then on further internet searching that his job was created with Section 666 of the codified Europa documents.
Paragraph 12 which proposed giving Solana control over the emergency management machinery for Europe, chairmanship of the Political Security Committee (PSC), and “power to convene the Council of the European Union in the event of an emergency.”
Paragraph 15 which referred to the CIMIC concept: “Civil Military Cooperation” reminding me so very much of the old expression attributed in World War II to Nazified German concepts of “You will cooperation, you will enjoy!”

Paragraph 18 which had to do with the Torrejon space center.
The USA had “nothing like it,” said Dr. Solana. Further statements down the road indicated that the project’s sophistication was such that a blind European would be able to go through European subways “completely unaided by any external device.”

Daniel 9:26-27
War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'
The ENP was implemented under existing funding instruments. However, the existing instruments were not sufficient to meet the ENP’s goals. On January 1, 2007 Solana was tasked with creating a new funding instrument — the European Neighborhood and Partnership Instrument (ENPI). What’s prophetically significant is that the ENPI is a seven-year funding instrument with a built in checkpoint.
Revelations 13:16-17
He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Real ID Act - The Real ID ACT passed May 11, 2008, in the U.S. Senate.
All states should get radio readable ID’s that have full history of a person’s background or they will lose federal funding for roads. They will also have to get passport for air travel. The European Union is creating the same form of radio readable ID, currently there is 186 countries out of 192 who are prepared to go with this type of ID.I believe this a precursor to a funding instrument that will soon be introduced. Collages and some high schools and middle schools have IDs. Do your kids have ID? All maritime people and petro chemical employees must have a TWIK card which is the same kind of card.
Revelations 13:5-7 – Religious War
The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
AoC – Alliance of Civilizations – 2007-2009 Purpose: to bring together Muslim and Western societies
This is a continuation of my ongoing series on my discovery of Javier Solana and his growing powers. As I write this, I have made amazing discoveries of his relationship with the Strategic Foresight Group, a thinktank working extremely closely with the Alliance of Civilizations. Strategic Foresight Group has not been subtle about pinpointing what it calls ‘religious extremism’ as an enemy of civilization which needs elimination. It defines that “extremism,” inter alia, as both Evangelical,Protestant fundamentalist theologies and Islamic Extremism.
Revelations 13:15 – Religious War
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
The AoC’s stated goal is to avoid a clash of civilizations by building a bridge between the West and the Muslim world. While Kofi Annan was kicking off the new global peace project in New York, British Prime Minister Tony Blair was touring the Middle East pushing the AoC’s agenda. Blair was calling for moderate Arab states to enter into an alliance with the West in order to fight religious extremism and confront Iran. It will serve as a vehicle from which they can mount a religious war against all who oppose.
Revelations 13:18 – Let Him Calculate – Australian Bible Code (Code Finder)
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
Code finder which can calculate the New Testament in Greek, using a grid skip less than 1,000 found Javier Solana’s name came up 22 times in Revelations. In Revelations verse 18 where it says let him calculate his name, Javier Solana’s name crossed the inner linear configuration as well as a smaller grid straight line. His name came up on every Greek New Testament prophecy ascribed to the anti-christ, 2 Thessalonians
chapter2, Matt. Chapter24, Mark 13 and Luke 21all featured Javier Solana’s name.
Rev. 13:11-18 The Beast Out of the Earth
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Daniel 7:15-17 – The Beast are Kingdoms
"I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me.I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this."So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms.
Revelations 13:11 – The Earth is a Sparsely Populated Area
Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
Who has a kingdom or a country that comes out of a sparsely populated area?
A lamb is a young animal.
What kingdom on Earth is a young nation that has risen to be a world power? America 232yrs old
What nation has two headers or 2 forms of government?

A NATION SPEAKS BY ITS LAWS

What nations’ laws were built on Christian principals?
These are actual quotes from James Wilson, one of the original Supreme Court Justices and Gouverneur Morris who actually wrote the constitution:
James Wilson quote:
What are those virtues? They are chiefly the same virtues, which we have already seen to be descriptive of the American character ― the love of liberty, and the love of law. But law and liberty cannot rationally become the objects of our love, unless they first become the objects of our knowledge. The same course of study, properly directed, will lead us to the knowledge of both. Indeed, neither of them can be known, because neither of them can exist, without the other. Without liberty, law loses its nature and its name, and becomes oppression. Without law, liberty also loses its nature and its name, and becomes licentiousness. J
James 1:25 Perfect law that gives freedom.
We have passed through the Red Sea in safety: we have survived a tedious and dangerous journey through the wilderness: we are now in full and peaceable possession of the promised land: must we, after all, return to the flesh pots of Egypt? Is there not danger, that when one nation teaches, it may, in some instances, give the law to another? WE MUST TEACH OUR CHILDREN – God’s law of Love.
Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine. You can not separate God’s law from civil law, those two things are inseparable. Far from being rivals or enemies religion and law are twin sisters. They are friends, they are mutual assistants, Indeed, these two science run into each other.
Gouverneur Morris is actually the one who penned the constitution. In 1790-1791 the two years following the ratification of the constitution, Gouverneur Morris offered two works on the constitution. He said, “Religion is the only solid basis of good morals. Therefore, education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man toward God. That’s no where close to our national policy today. But then again, what does he know? He just wrote the constitution.
We had the Ten Commandments in our court rooms and we would swear on the Bible in our court rooms, when we say the Pledge of allegiance we say “One Nation Under God”, we have “In God we Trust” on our money, up until 1948 the Christian religion was taught in public schools. Evidence with our founding fathers is too numerous to count. They are teaching lies in American History to our children. It should not be.
A NATION SPEAKS BY ITS LAWS
What nation has recently changed their laws to anti-christian?
Our nation took Christ out of school:
McCollum v. Board of Education Dist. 71, 333 U.S. 203 (1948)
Court finds religious instruction in public schools a violation of the establishment clause and therefore unconstitutional.

Our Nation decided to take innocent lives:
When did the first state legalize abortion?
In 1967 Colorado and California legalized abortion. By June, 1970, when the State of New York passed the first Abortion on Demand Law (24-week limit), it be-came the 16th state to allow abortion. Due to an extremely loose interpretation of "mental health," California also had defacto abortion-on-demand. Alaska and Hawaii had liberal laws. Laws in the other 12 states, which included Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Kansas, Maryland, Mississippi, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina and Virginia, were very restrictive, typically allowing abortion only for pregnancies due to assault rape, incest and life of the mother as well as for severe fetal handicap.
Nov.13, 2003 Judge Moore was disbarred for refusing to remove the Ten Commandments from his court room. The following is a poem written by Judge Roy Moore from Alabama.

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL
America the Beautiful, or so you used to be.
Land of the Pilgrims' pride; I'm glad they'll never see.
Babies piled in dumpsters, Abortion on demand,
Oh, sweet land of liberty, your house is on the sand.
Our children wander aimlessly poisoned by cocaine,
Choosing to indulge their lusts, when God has said abstain.
From sea to shining sea, our Nation turns away
From the teaching of God's love and a need to always pray.
So many worldly preachers tell lies about our Rock,
Saying God is going broke so they can fleece the flock.
We've kept God in our temples, how callous we have grown.
When earth is but His footstool, and Heaven is His throne.
We've voted in a government that's rotting at the core,
Appointing Godless Judges who throw reason out the door,
Too soft to place a killer in a well deserved tomb,
But brave enough to kill a baby before he leaves the womb.
You think that God's not angry, that our land's a moral slum?
How much longer will He wait before His judgment comes?
How are we to face our God, from Whom we cannot hide?
What then is left for us to do, but stem this evil tide?
If we who are His children, will humbly turn and pray;
Seek His holy face and mend our evil way:
Then God will hear from Heaven and forgive us of our sins,
He'll heal our sickly land and those who live within.
But, America the Beautiful, if you don't then you will see,
A sad but Holy God withdraw His hand from Thee.
ALL THAT IS NEEDED FOR EVIL TO PREVAIL IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING!
Our nation has legalized same-sex marriages: Maybe we should have learned a message from Sodom
California legalized the first same-sex domestic partnership in 1985
States that have legalized same-sex marriages: Massachusetts – 2004, California -2008, Connecticut -2008,
States that legalized same-sex civil unions: Vermont, New Hampshire, New Jersey – 2004
States that legalized same-sex domestic partnership: Oregon, Washington, Maine and DC

Revelations 13:12 On His Behalf
He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
EU’s cover-up\t\t\t\t\t\t\t
•\tJavier Solana passed an initiative to cover-up all documents that he deemed confidential.
•\tUpon passing the initiative he hid over 1,000 documents that were public knowledge.
•\tThis initiative went aginst the original stipulations of the Brussels Treaty.
•\tThree of the WEU leaders were so upset that they walked out of a meeting.
America’s cover-up
•\tSolana and the United States have agreed to classify all documents between the EU and the US.
•\tState department document: www.state.govrpaprsps2007apr83988.htm (Be careful) Since we first prepared this message this link has disappeared.

European Union and the United States have both agreed on the same type of radio readable national ID
The EU and the US are both fighting the war on terror. The EU and America have both agreed on the AoC initiative and they are both currently pushing the initiative in their kingdoms.
Real ID Act passed May 11, 2008 in the United States.
Revelation 13:15
He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
It is actually the beast out of the earth that was given the power to give the image breath so that it could speak. The internet was founded in the United States and with a radio readable type of currency and identification you will have to have a computer network that is world wide ready to identify those without the mark. It is actually this beast that causes the saints to be killed because it was given power to give breath to the image so that it could speak. Rev. 13:12 says, He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf. In 1990, the war in Iraq was on T.V. for the first time in history. Fire falls down in full view of men. And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. Rev.13:13
Rev. Ch. 17-18 The Woman that rides the Beast

Deuteronomy 28:1 Why did America grow to such height in such a short period of time
If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. I am reminded of Apolo 8, when three astronauts read Genisis, to the world, on Christmas evening in space.
Why is the English language taught in every nation on earth? = money, prosperity, the American Dream
Why is America considered the super power on Earth? = Deuteronomy 28:10
Deuteronomy 28:9-10
The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. 10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you.
Deuteronomy 8:10-14 America (just like David) put their faith in what God has given and have forgotten the Lord that gave it.
When you have eaten and are satisfied, praise the LORD your God for the good land he has given you. 11 Be careful that you do not forget the LORD your God, failing to observe his commands, his laws and his decrees that I am giving you this day. 12 Otherwise, when you eat and are satisfied, when you build fine houses and settle down, 13 and when your herds and flocks grow large and your silver and gold increase and all you have is multiplied, 14 then your heart will become proud and you will forget the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Revelations 17:6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
Hence the woman riding the beast. Remember He ( the beast like a lamb) was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast so that he could speak and cause all that refuse to worship the image to be killed. Rev 13:15
Revelations 17:3
Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.
Remember it was the Lamb who exercised the authority of the first beast on his behalf. Hence the woman that rides the beast.
Revelations 17:15 (Everybody wants what we got) but you can’t get it unless you fully obey the Lord
Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages
The American language is taught in elementary school in most nations that are not third world countries. You can go to most any nation and teach English if you can speak it. English=Money, Education, Prosperity.
What they see is God’s blessing. Anytime through out history when God’s people turned from Him and did evil, God would use a plague or heathen nation to discipline His people. “When I shut-up the heaven so there is no rain or command the locust to devour the land or send the plague among my people, if my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and seek my face then will I hear from heaven and forgive their sins and heal their land.” 2 Chronicle 7:13-14 or
The LORD, the God of their fathers, sent word to them through his messengers again and again, because he had pity on his people and on his dwelling place. But they mocked God's messengers, despised his words and scoffed at his prophets until the wrath of the LORD was aroused against his people and there was no remedy. He brought up against them the king of the Babylonians, who killed their young men with the sword in the sanctuary, and spared neither young man nor young woman, old man or aged. God handed all of them over to Nebuchadnezzar. 2 Chronicles 36:15-17 Just ask David or Daniel a man that was highly esteemed in heaven because of his dedication to God and rose to the highest positions of the kingdom WHILE IN CAPTIVITY.
Revelations 17:16-17
The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled.
Once again we see the woman represented as the one who exercises her authority on behalf of the first beast. The beast like the lamb and the woman are one in the same. I believe they are America.
Revelations 17:18 NewYork, New York
The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
New York City is the most influential city on the planet. In the UN is coincidently found in New York City. The only city on earth that has an organization that governs the kings of the Earth.
Revelation 18:4 The Woman is also the spirit of the world . God has commanded His people to come out of her
Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
Cars, airplanes, and ships go to and fro. You can google anything on the internet and find it in seconds. Human knowledge double every seven years before the internet, since the internets introduction human knowledge double every two years.
Daniel 11:33 Jesus said how is it you don’t know the signs of the times.
"Those who are wise will instruct many….
Revelations 22:16 Revelations is to the church
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Revelations 22:7
“Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." \t
Daniel 7:9-10
"As I looked," thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.
A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
Daniel 7:26-27"'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'
Daniel 7:14
He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Revelations 4:6-11
Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." 9Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say, "You are worthy, our Lord our God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”

Daniel 4: 34- 37
At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever. His dominion is an eternal dominion; his kingdom endures from generation to generation. All the peoples of the earth are regarded as nothing. He does as he pleases with the powers of heaven and the peoples of the earth. No one can hold back his hand or say to him: "What have you done?" At the same time that my sanity was restored, my honor and splendor were returned to me for the glory of my kingdom. My advisers and nobles sought me out, and I was restored to my throne and became even greater than before. Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and exalt and glorify the King of heaven, because everything he does is right and all his ways are just. And those who walk in pride he is able to humble.

\t\t\t\t\t\t

Mark 13:32-37 The Watchman
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come. It's like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with his assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch."Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping.7What I say to you, I say to everyone: 'Watch!' "Revelations 22:7
“Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

I'm with ya, Mike... I read that and thought "what a bunch of nonsense". But you're way more articulate than I am.

Krispy

Bullseye with this brother:

When will men cease to make sport of God's word ...

yes and amen!

That is why a merciful God has freed me from the bondage of feeling the need to argue Scripture with the brethern.

xo, neil

me too, neil... maybe thats why this forum seems to be slowing down a little bit. Or at least isnt nearly as interesting as it used to be. Not sure which.

I used to be addicted, but lately it's a rare occasion for me to even look at this forum more than twice a week.

...and usually when I do check in and say something, someone wants to challenge me on it, no matter what I say. I could say "the grass is green" and someone will want to argue w/me about the Biblical implications of the color green, and the doctrine of mowing grass.

Kinda like in the Old West... you get labeled a gun slinger and everyone wants to see if they can beat you at your game.

My attitude lately has been "Argue with yourself, I'm not interested"... and then walk away.

To quote George Strait: "This is where the cowboy rides away..."

Krispy

Beloveds,
I KNOW the feeling, but I humbly submit to you two ideas, as He leads: first, we should never fail to encourage one another if they have a rhema Word, or a victorious testimony, or anything that is lovely and pure in Christ...or if WE have a bit of Scripture, testimony or any "forthtelling" we deign to share.

thats how we can redeem this 21st century technology as opposed to the real Work of Christ, which is face to face meetings and fellowship, where He leads us to.

second, "dont feed the trolls", its a secular internet term to avoid be drawn into those who purposely throw out "bait" to invite contentious bitter debate.

This website has blessed me so much, and tested me so much, and I pray that dear Greg, and all the moderators be encouraged in Christ....you're making news in Heaven, Greg! Where else could I download all of Duncan Campbell's sermons, who is one of my "fathers" in the Faith.

So, prayerfully, lets stay perched on this cyber "wall", and just love one another in Jesus, as best as a saved sinner can.

neil

Whomever this son-of-perdition will be - he would have to be one that both "Christians & Jews" have been warned in His Word to not follow and with the atmosphere being what it is these days, I seriously don't believe that Christians or Jews 'may' follow anyone who is Muslim.

Anyone have any thoughts on Daniel 8?

I understand but the gunslinger is the only one who can hang up his guns!!

I have, Lysa... thats why I am not here as often, and have tried to back away from the arguing and debating that goes on here.

As to dmoney's post, I merely agreed with Mike. Did not tear down dmoney, and dont think Mike did either. Dmoney posted something that obviously was something that someone else wrote, and we dont agree with it. Thats not tearing someone down.

If that were the case then we would be mean spirited when we pointed out to an unsaved person that they are wrong.

Tearing dmoney down would be if there was a personal attack on him, or his character, or his mama.

We just simply disagree with his post.

Krispy

I don't get into Bible codes or complex Biblical numerology... I think they distract from basic tenets of the Word of God.... to shape us into the likeness of Christ first and foremost.

I like to keep it simple. I think 666 being the number of man and the mark of the beast is simply the infinite and futile struggle to perfect oneself without Christ. God rested on the 6th day to let His Son finish and perfect the work. This is why Jesus referred to Himself as 'Lord of the Sabbath'. Naturally the Pharisees who had the futile 666 mark of man did not know what He meant. They wanted a conquerer, not someone who could complete and perfect them to Godliness. This is an example for us today. I believe Satan was cast out of heaven because he thought stature and power were the perfecting qualities. To let your creator be the completeness of yourself didn't appeal to him. Likewise, man believes that stature, power, and success are self perfecting qualities. The classic ego cannot admit that there is a need for anyone beyond themselves so Christ will never complete the work God intended for them and hence they take the 666 mark.

It all points to Christ in my opinion. I don't know what nationality the anti-christ will be and I think it's futile to speculate that, but I believe they will have a form or quality of false righteousness and at first will be the ultimate 'uniter'. Christ divided with His preaching of truth and I believe this began the separation of sheep and goats that continue's today.

Brother, there is no such thing as "Bible codes" or whatever the various nomenclatures given to it. You can find anything you want, 'prove' it out by these clever sorts of things but you can also do this with Moby Dick or War and Peace just as ably.

The reason for this, and for all the crazy false teachings today, is because most Christians here in America can't even spell "Hermeneutics"... much less know what it means, and how to put it into practice.

Krispy

I agree with crsschk. I believe the exploration of Bible codes is simply a flesh driven intellectual attempt to get answers only prayer and relationship can truly give.

I don't think Christ died on the cross and rose from the dead to give us the intellectual capacity to decipher His Word scientifically. The message of the Bible comes to us through His Holy Spirit in us, not from supercomputers.

Hermeneutics? Isn't that a cookie with raisins and nuts?

The verse in question is entertaining but no more than that at present. Especially for those using the e-sword. Please try it if you haven't as yet.

Click on Rev 13:18 then look to see what Adam Clarke and Alfred Barnes had to say.
Don't read it - ha - just skim down their commentaries on that one verse. :-?

There isn't one commentator in the e-sword that are living in this "revealing" generation so they'll just confuse the life out of us.

The two key words in that verse are "understanding" = G3563 and "count" = G5585 and then - like when you were a kid, go out in the backyard and get a bunch of pebbles to play with. :-D

I believe that HE is peeling back this onion skin by skin and will continue to "reveal" as we go along and put full trust in His Words ---

Dan 12:8-10 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

I believe this is just a wisdom from HIM that will be revealed [apokaluptō G601] more and more as we travel along in these days.

I do not feel that we can say who the antiChrist is YET - but there are two beasts mentioned in Daniel and the Revelation. One is a Global Governance 'System' and out from that comes the antiChrist, according to Daniel --- Daniel 7, 8, 11, 12 is the key.

Jesus spoke of the son-of-perdition, as well as Paul, besides Daniel - so we cannot say that only John spoke of him.
But Daniel and John must be studied together and not because I say so. :-)

GOD Bless

Brethern, Lysa, forgive me if it seemed like I was tearing dmoney down, that wasnt my intention at all, ie, referencing "trolls". I should have been more clear. It wasnt precisely aimed at him. and dmoney, if I offended you in anyway, I ask your forgiveness.

What I feel has been happening a lot, is all sorts of initial posts have been thrown out there, to foster a kind of sectarian spirit in a guise of "what do you all think of this 'thus saith'?"......and then the disagreements fly, and the arguments, and how many angels fit on a pinhead, etc.

I dont know if I'm being clear, BUT, I do mean to apologize if my post was taken badly, or I seemed out of order.

Here's where God has been leading me: I yearn, thirst and hunger for more of God, I am praying pleading to be burnt out, to die to self, self-will, fleshly ambitions, to KNOW MORE of Jesus, to live holy, as holy as a saved sinner can live, embrace a simple faith, child-like and recognizing my absolute utter dependency on God, and finally to re-embrace my "first Love", and that can only be done on my knees...y'know? "watching God work on my knees", the ministry of private prayer work, travailing prayer. Please give me that Lord

so, when a question comes up, "who or what will the anti-christ be?"....I fully recognize that we should all have liberty in Christ to explore these questions....oh yes, but speaking for myself, I dont care about such questions, as I want to know Jesus and Him Crucified more fully. maybe I shouldnt have posted anything, but I did, and if I stumbled or offended anyone on this forum, i repent fully.

in Jesus' love, neil

May God bless that dear young son of yours!

from the mouth of the babes, huh? what a mature young man, may God always have His Way in that dear boys life, amen.

(still praying for your other child's health)

much love in Christ, neil

Ravenbrook wrote:
This may be more information than requested but it all flows together.

If this is not clear enough please just ask and I will try to clear it up.

Sons of Perdition
Judas and The Man Of Sin from 2nd Thessalonians
February 8, 2009

Many teachers of end time events have done a great deal of harm by painting the man of sin (the one they call Antichrist) as some kind of monstrous individual who leaves in his wake a path of destruction. They make it seem as though it will be easy to spot him. If it were so then the vast majority of peoples would not accept him. They would no doubt run for their lives. Let’s take a look at what the Apostle Paul says about him.

2nd Thessalonians 2:
1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, 2 That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now lets will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 ¶ But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Where to he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which you have been taught, whether by word, or our letter. 16 ¶ Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which has loved us, and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.

While reading my bible one day I began to understand something that I have always wondered about. How could somebody who walked with Jesus and ministered in his name, cast out devils and healed the sick, betray him? I began to get the picture awhile back (years) but understand a little better today...

Mark 14:
1 ¶ After two days was the feast of the Passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
2 But they said, Not on the feast day, lest there be an uproar of the people.
3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.
6 And Jesus said, Let her alone; why trouble you her? she has wrought a good work on me.
7 For you have the poor with you always, and whensoever you will you may do them good: but me you have not always.
8 She has done what she could: she is come aforehand to anoint my body to the burying.
9 Verily I say to you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she has done shall be spoken of for a memorial of her.
10 And Judas Iscariot, one of the twelve, went to the chief priests, to betray him to them.
11 And when they heard it, they were glad, and promised to give him money. And he sought how he might conveniently betray him.

He was offended at the "waste" and the rebuke of Jesus. He betrayed him because Christ corrected his wrong attitude. I have seen this attitude among believers and I have to say that I believe it is very dangerous. Revenge seems to be Judas's motive and for this he was possessed by Satan himself.

Remember that Judas was called the son of perdition. The man of sin found in 2nd Thessalonians is also called the son of perdition, they will likely share some of the same traits. Here is that portion of scripture which speaks about the man of sin, the one most call the Antichrist.

We must be careful, as Christ said Watch and pray...

Matthew 26:2 You know that after two days is the feast of the Passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 26:14 ¶ Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests,
Matthew 26:15 And said to them, What will you give me, and I will deliver him to you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver.
Matthew 26:16 And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.

Psalms 55:12 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have born it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:
Psalms 55:13 But it was you, a man my equal, my guide, and my acquaintance.
Psalms 55:14 We took sweet counsel together, and walked to the house of God in company.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
John 6:71 He spoke of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

John 13:21 When Jesus had thus said, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, and said, Verily, verily, I say to you, that one of you shall betray me.

Psalms 41:9 Yes, my own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.

Luke 22:21 ¶ But, behold, the hand of him that betrays me is with me on the table.

John 13:18 ¶ I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me.

John 13:26 Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped it. And when he had dipped the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. {sop: or, morsel}
John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus to him, what you do, do quickly.
John 13:28 Now no man at the table knew for what intent he spoke this to him.

Psalm 109:1 ¶ (To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.) Hold not your peace, O God of my praise;
Psalm 109:2 for the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have \tspoken against me with a lying tongue.
Psalm 109:3 They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
Psalm 109:4 For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself to prayer.
Psalm 109:5 And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love.
Psalm 109:6 ¶ Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
Psalm 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
Psalm 109:8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
Psalm 109:9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
Psalm 109:10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their \tdesolate places.
Psalm 109:11 Let the extortioner catch all that he has; and let the strangers spoil his labor.
Psalm 109:12 Let there be none to extend mercy to him: neither let there be any to favor his fatherless \tchildren.
Psalm 109:13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
Psalm 109:14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with YAHWEH; and let not the sin of his \tmother be blotted out.
Psalm 109:15 Let them be before YAHWEH continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the \tearth.
Psalm 109:16 Because that he remembered not to show mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that \the might even slay the broken in heart.
Psalm 109:17 As he loved cursing, so let it come to him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from \thim.
Psalm 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels \tlike water, and like oil into his bones.
Psalm 109:19 Let it be to him as the garment which covers him, and for a girdle with which he is girded \tcontinually.
Psalm 109:20 Let this be the reward of my adversaries from YAHWEH, and of them that speak evil against
\tmy soul.
Psalm 109:21 ¶ But do for me, YAHWEH my Lord, for your name’s sake: because your mercy is good, \tdeliver me.
Psalm 109:22 For I am poor and needy, and my heart is wounded within me.
Psalm 109:23 I am gone like the shadow when it declines: I am tossed up and down as the locust.
Psalm 109:24 My knees are weak through fasting; and my flesh fails of fatness.
Psalm 109:25 I became also a reproach to them: when they looked upon me they shook their heads.
Psalm 109:26 Help me, O YAHWEH my God: O save me according to your mercy:
Psalm 109:27 That they may know that this is your hand; that you, YAHWEH, have done it.
Psalm 109:28 Let them curse, but you bless: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let your servant \trejoice.
Psalm 109:29 Let my adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own \tconfusion, as with a mantle.
Psalm 109:30 I will greatly praise YAHWEH with my mouth; yes, I will praise him among the multitude.
Psalm 109:31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul.

You see Christ had his Judas and so shall we have ours…

The Man of Sin

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; in as much that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Notice the words "if it were possible, even the elect"

Matthew 7:
21 ¶ Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that hears these sayings of mine, and does them not, shall be likened to a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

You know them by their fruits brothers. It's a hard word but who can argue against the King?

==================================================

"the man of sin" will likely call himself a Christian and be widely accepted as such. He will certainly show no or little regard to God's law. Remember he is also known as "the son of destruction" (perdition). As was Judas Iscariot. What do the ancient prophecies say about Judas? "He was my close companion my fellow etc. and he lifted up his heel against me. (the serpent's seed in genesis). Because he loved not mercy... etc. These are the traits we watch for.

The Law of Yahweh
Those who have the spirit of Christ will have the works of Christ.

If we have the spirit of Christ and "walk in it" then we fulfill the law of God. The spirit of Christ will by no means draw us away from it. When Jesus was teaching on the mount of olives, what he taught was well beyond the written law. We are not justified by the law but if you break the law you will loose salvation. What about murder, adultery etc? Can we do these things and retain our salvation? Certainly not. Jesus did not annul the law but he fulfilled it. If you are in him then you will also fulfill the law, by your new nature, the nature of Christ.

JeremYah 31:
31 Behold, the days come, says Yahweh, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Yahweh:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says Yahweh, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yahweh: for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says Yahweh: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The law of Yahweh is written on our hearts so it is not burdensome to us, It becomes our nature!

1st John 5:
1 ¶ Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loves the father loves the son.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

We are not talking about laws concerning the cleansing / purification etc. as these laws have to do with forgiveness and reconciliation. Christ has accomplished all of these for us, we have been reconciled to God and our Brethren. “by his stripes we are healed”

John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this will all men know that you are my disciples, if you have love one for another.

1St John 3:14-19
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brothers. He that does not love his brother remains in death.
15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer: and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
16 By this we perceive the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother has need, and shuts up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwells the love of God in him?
18 My little children let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in works and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

The great commandment is to love Yahweh our God with all our heart, soul and strength. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself. and the rest is gravy.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Romans 8:
1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that remains in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do put to death the works of the body, you shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but you have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Like Judas the Son of Perdition will be one who is called but not chosen
We are the Called, the Chosen, the Elect
No man needs to say much concerning the election, chosen, predestination etc. God is very clear in his word concerning these things. Though some clarification may be necessary due to the multitude of false teachings which have been taught for probably centuries.

The question is , What does God say about it?

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Romans 8:29 ¶For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifies.

Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calls;)
Romans 9:12 It was said to her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Romans 9:14 ¶ What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Romans 9:15 For he says to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Romans 9:16 So then it (salvation) is not of him that wills, nor of him that runs, but of God that shows mercy.
Romans 9:17 For the scripture says to Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Romans 9:18 Therefore has he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardens.
Romans 9:19 You will say then to me, Why does he yet find fault? For who has resisted his will?
Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who are you that reply against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why have you made me thus?
Romans 9:21 Has not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel to honor, and another to dishonor?
Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Romans 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared to glory,
Romans 9:24 Even us, whom he has called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained that which he seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.

1st Thessalonians 1:4 Knowing, brothers beloved, your election of God.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brothers, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, you shall never fall:

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; my elect, in whom my soul delights; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 45:4 For Jacob my servant’s sake, and Israel my elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though you have not known me.

Isaiah 65:9 And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

Isaiah 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.

Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night to him, though he bear long with them?

Colossians 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that you observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believes on him shall not be confounded.

2 John 1:1 The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

2 John 1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

Matthew 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many are called, but few chosen.

Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Mark 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom he has chosen, he has shortened the days.

Luke 23:35 And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

John 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eats bread with me has lifted up his heel against me.

John 15:16 You have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that you should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love his own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments to the apostles whom he had chosen:

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, You, Lord, which knows the hearts of all men, show whether of these two you have chosen,

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, Go your way: for he is a chosen vessel to me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Acts 10:41 Not to all the people, but to witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

Acts 22:14 And he said, The God of our fathers has chosen thee, that you should know his will, and see that Just One, and should hear the voice of his mouth.

Romans 16:13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine.

1 Corinthians 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nothing things that are:

Ephesians 1:4 According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks always to God for you, brothers beloved of the Lord, because God has from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

2 Timothy 2:4 No man that wars entangles himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who has chosen him to be a soldier.

James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, Has not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he has promised to them that love him?

1 Peter 2:4 To whom coming, as to a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

1 Peter 2:9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom you have given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which you have given me: for you loved me before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he has chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

“Many are called but few are chosen” some who are called will refuse to heed, some will be tempted away by their own desires (lust), others will fall due to pride. We are warned to keep ourselves unspotted for a reason. Though God himself has called us, ultimately the decision is ours as is the responsibility to watch and be ready. If we neglect our salvation then there is no hope for us.

I was asked “What about this scripture? “2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." The key to understanding this scripture is to understand who he is talking about "to us-ward", Who is the us? look at verse 8. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Who is the beloved in verse 8? Obviously it is those who are called, he is not willing that any of the called should be lost.

As I said previously “Many are called but few are chosen” some who are called will refuse to heed, some will be tempted away by their own desires (lust), others will fall due to pride. We are warned to keep ourselves unspotted for a reason. Though God himself has called us, ultimately the decision is ours as is the responsibility to watch and be ready. If we neglect our salvation then there is no hope for us."

It is obvious that we can be lost even though we are called but he is not willing that we should be lost. Many of the called will fall away from Christ in their hearts and this will be the great falling away. Jesus said “will the son of man find faith when he comes?”

Brother, Bless GOD. You Love The WORD of GOD.

That is what causes the angels to mark HIS own - that Agape Love for HIS WORD.

We will be rudely awakened when we find out that we only Loved Jesus as much as we Loved The WORD of GOD.

The LORD GOD Bless you.

Daniel 8

To date, there have only been four one world Governments, as recorded in history.

1.\tBabylon (Nebuchadnezzar)--Gold
2.\tMedio-Persia (Cyrus & Darius)--Silver
3.\tGreece (Alexander the Great)--Brass
4.\tRome--Iron

Islam has never ruled the World, ever. They have made many tries, but have always been defeated, they have always failed.

Rome will rule again as the revived Roman Empire, represented by the toes of iron and clay. This “revived” Roman Empire will not be as cohesive as the first Roman Empire was. [b] Jesus Christ is the stone made without hands that will destroy the entire statue, which represents all of the one world Government’s that have ever existed.[/b].(Daniel 2:45) He will do that at the second coming, at the end of the 7 year tribulation. This is a future event that will usher in the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ as Lord, who will rule & reign with a rod of iron. He has promised this 1,000 years (millenium) to the Jews, and during this time sacrifices take place at the Temple again, and all nations will come to Jerusalem, each year at the feast of Tabernacles to worship Jesus Christ as Lord.

Whoever antichrist is, he has to be accepted by the Jews. He will be the one who negotiates a peace treaty with Islam & Israel in order for the Jews to rebuild their Temple. He can be from anywhere on the planet, but I believe his nationality will have to be Jewish in origin. He is the one that will enter the temple 3 1/2 years into the tribulation, after the new Temple is completed and demand worship. The Jews that have not read their Torah, that hate God, the secular Jews, will offer worship to him. However, the Jews that have read their Torah, and are believers in God, will realize at this point in time, that he is the antichrist, as prophesized in the Book of Daniel, and their eyes will be opened.

Another thing we know about Antichrist is that he will have no use for women.
“Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” (Daniel 11:37)

I believe that antichrist will use Islam in his army to murder Jews and Christians by beheading, with the sword. Years ago, in the 1980's I remember seeing a Christian video about the tribulation. In this video antichrist had Guillotines installed all over the earth, to take off the heads of the Christians and the Jews, or anyone who would not take his mark. Now, I realize that his army, Islam, is right now trained and ready, willing and able, to save him the expense of the guillotines, and chop their heads off!

Sincerely,

Walter

[b]Nearthecross posted:[/b]

[b]I also hold to that point of view though I know not everyone sees it that way. Some believe the iron part of the image not to be the Roman Empire, but the Arab-Muslim empire of the 2nd Century. According to some, the Roman Empire didn't fulfill Daniel 2:40, which says the iron must "break in pieces and crush" all the preceding 3 kindgoms. Rome was never able to conquer all the land areas of the three prior kindgoms. The Arab-Muslim empire, however, did succeed in this, as they conquered the areas of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and other parts of Europe, the Middle East, etc. Thus the feet part of the image will not be a "Revived Roman Empire" but a revived Islamic empire.

But either way, if the iron part of the Daniel 2 image really is Rome, we must remember that the Roman Empire didn't just conquer Europe--more than half of the empire was in the Middle-East and Northern Africa. This leaves ample room for an antichrist from a Revived Roman Empire to come from the Middle East.
I don't know if you saw that Muslim Demographics video they recently put up somewhere on these forums, but it strengthens the case for a Muslim antichrist, as it demonstrates how in something like 40 years all of Europe will be Muslim because of their rate of reproduction. Something to think about.[/b]

your previous posting is your "opinion", yes?

what do you mean by "one world Governments"?

I've never heard such terminology referenced in geopolitical history, whether it be ancient or contemporary. "Empire" is more appropriate.

and from where do you get this statement?

He can be from anywhere on the planet, but I believe his nationality will have to be Jewish in origin.

Since when is "being Jewish" a "nationality"? Is this your way of saying that the anti-christ will be Israeli?

Again, I ask, is this your "opinion"? or did you get a Word from the Lord in prayer, or some sort of Divine Revelation?

I think its perfectly legitimate for men and women to voice their opinion on how God will unfold His will, and His design for the world in the coming days, but in my "opinion", its just other "clay vessels" speculating on how everything is going to unfold.

and by the way, I don't if you've noticed, but it seems to me, at this time, the United States of Ameria is the preeminent empire on the global stage today.

What do you believe about the anti Christ and why?

that he's DEAD, he just hasn't hit the ground yet, or more succintly hasnt been chucked into the pit of fire...thats all I know.

How do I know this? The Word of God told me so.

Will the Beast (antichrist) be of Hebrew / Israeli/Jewish decent?

My answer comes from God's Word. There is so much wackiness out there today, with "thus saith the lord" christians, who not only have the Holy Spirit in them, but also Satan, whispering in their ears. Scripture is the only way to find the answers we seek in regard to end time events prophesized in detail in God's Word. The Bible is also the only thing to compare whatever the "Holy Spirit" is revealing to us, in these last days of deception & deceit

I believe that the Beast (anthchrist) will be of Hebrew/Israeli descent. The Jews today are ready to start the daily sacrifice's, all they need is a Temple. They have discovered through DNA that Jews with the last name of Cohen are Levites. In the past several years they have bred the red heffer. All of their instruments required for temple sacrifice, as well as the clothing that the levite priests will wear is ready. All of the Prests are trained and ready to start. All they are all waiting for is the Temple. Antichrist will provide them the temple, and then when it is finished, 3/12 years into the Tribulation, he will demand worship.

Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. (KJV)

This is the hard core verse that describes the beast (antichrist) and his characteristics.

[b]Note here that "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers." The phrase "God of his fathers" is used only six times in the bible - In all those instances it refers to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2Ki 21:22
2Ch 21:10
2Ch 28:25
2Ch 30:19
Dan 11:37

In these verses the word LORD is used. This is the a translation representation of the word JEHOVAH[/b]

Here is what Easton’s Bible Dictionary states:
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Lord

There are various Hebrew and Greek words so rendered.

(1.) Heb. Jehovah, has been rendered in the English Bible Lord, printed in small capitals. This is the proper name of the God of the Hebrews. The form “Jehovah” is retained only in Exo_6:3; Psa_83:18; Isa_12:2; Isa_26:4, both in the Authorized and the Revised Version.

(2.) Heb. 'adon, means one possessed of absolute control. It denotes a master, as of slaves (Gen_24:14, Gen_24:27), or a ruler of his subjects (Gen_45:8), or a husband, as lord of his wife (Gen_18:12).The old plural form of this Hebrew word is 'adonai. From a superstitious reverence for the name “Jehovah,” the Jews, in reading their Scriptures, whenever that name occurred, always pronounced it 'Adonai.

(3.) Greek kurios, a supreme master, etc. In the LXX. this is invariably used for “Jehovah” and “'Adonai.”

(4.) Heb. ba'al, a master, as having domination. This word is applied to human relations, as that of husband, to persons skilled in some art or profession, and to heathen deities. “The men of Shechem,” literally “the baals of Shechem” (Jdg_9:2, Jdg_9:3). These were the Israelite inhabitants who had reduced the Canaanites to a condition of vassalage (Jos_16:10; Jos_17:13).

(5.) Heb. seren, applied exclusively to the “lords of the Philistines” (Jdg_3:3). The LXX. render it by satrapies. At this period the Philistines were not, as at a later period (1Sa_21:10), under a kingly government. (See Jos_13:3; 1Sa_6:18.) There were five such lordships, viz., Gath, Ashdod, Gaza, Ashkelon, and Ekron.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--

[color=CC0000]If the antichrist / beast was Arab it would mean that he would only disregard the God of his FATHER.. singular. Not plural as the verse in Daniel states. Arabs are of the seed of Abraham, singular. FATHERS is plural and refer to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Who is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? JEHOVAH as stated above aka LORD in the other five verses presented. Scripture defines scripture.[/color]

[b]Here is another point regarding the Antichrist being hebrew...

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. (KJV)

This verse is taken from the prophecies of Jacob to his children in the last days.

Gen 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days. (KJV)

Note here that Jacob states “which shall befall you in the last days.” So Jacob is talking about the days in which we live in, not the days of his children. These are the last days…today.

It has been taught and I for one stand on this also believed that the Beast (antichrist) will come from the tribe of Dan.

It is seen here that a person from the tribe of Dan will be a serpent thus allowing the rider, who is described as Israel, to fall backwards.

Side note, who is the Serpent??? Easy, it is the enemy aka the Devil aka Satan.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 - 3 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

To FALL BACKWARDS is another form of saying to BACKSLIDE. So someone from the Tribe of Dan who is a SERPENT will make the nation of Israel fall from grace in a sense backslide.

The tribe of Dan is also not mentioned in the 144,000 of all the tribes of Israel, the very same ones who will spread the Gospel during the tribulation.

Rev 7:4 - 8 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Note… no Dan in the 144,000.

Note that the person is from the Tribe of Dan who also happens to be an Israeli or Hebrew (i.e. of Jewish descent).

Sincerely,

Walter[/b]

[b]NATAN4JESUS SAID

He can be from anywhere on the planet, but I believe his nationality will have to be Jewish in origin.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since when is "being Jewish" a "nationality"? Is this your way of saying that the anti-christ will be Israeli?

Again, I ask, is this your "opinion"? or did you get a Word from the Lord in prayer, or some sort of Divine Revelation?

I think its perfectly legitimate for men and women to voice their opinion on how God will unfold His will, and His design for the world in the coming days, but in my "opinion", its just other "clay vessels" speculating on how everything is going to unfold.

and by the way, I don't if you've noticed, but it seems to me, at this time, the United States of Ameria is the preeminent empire on the global stage today. [/b]

I wlll be perfectly frank with you,and firm, there is a spirit of fleshly religious pride so firmly camped out in the garrisons of your soul, that this will be my last posting with you. How dare you, in your pride, SLANDER other struggling saints with this poisonous bit of rhetoric:

There is so much wackiness out there today, with "thus saith the lord" christians, who not only have the Holy Spirit in them, but also Satan, whispering in their ears.

preceding that foul assumption is this statement to my query about how you ascertain that the anti-christ will be "Jewish":

My answer comes from God's Word.

and you utilize The Book of Daniel, as to the ethnic identity of the anti-christ!

I believe that the Beast (anthchrist) will be of Hebrew/Israeli descent.

Of course you do. and you get there with not only with faulty flimsy exegesis, but also an "I believe".

Men and women can slice and dice, and interpet and misinterpet the Bible 3 dozen different ways of Sunday, but none has the courage, just to say, "I don't know, God does, I'll leave it up to Him".

Why this great concern, and bandwidth expended on trying to ascertain who or what or when the antichrist will come?

What gain comes from that? What unity and love IN Christ comes from such a dialogue, especially when it allows fleshlings soaked thru and thru with religious pride and a whole lot of head knowledge a chance to show off their "great learning"?

what gain? what edification? what building up of the Body of Christ is there in such?

Would to God He empty you of this mind knowledge, hence your pride, burn you out of self, make you humble and meek as a child, to the point where you know NOTHING, but "Christ and Him crucified". Paul recognized this need, Jesus spoke of it, take it to prsyer and argue with it with Paul and Jesus, thats my prayer for you.

otherwise, I give you the "floor", opine and slander the saints (and Jews) all you desire.

neil

(later addition) Walter, I did re-read the Book of Daniel immediately after writing this post, and these two verses impacted me greatly:

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Daniel 12:8-9 (KJV)

and thats all I have to say in this thread.

To Natan4Jesus:

Brother, I will be very frank with you. Today, much of the charismatic body of Christ is filled with flesh and pride and error. Any Christian who prophesizes (speaks for the Lord) anything that does not come true (come to pass) is a false prophet. In Leviticus, God tells us that they should be stoned to death.

Deuteronomy 18:18-22
18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
[b]20. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? 22. When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.[/b]

[color=CC0000]Have you or any of your charismatic friends ever uttered a “prophecy” that did not come true? I have heard multitudes of them, starting with the horrors that awaitated us following Y2K. Do you remember any of them? Do you remember who the false prophets were? I do![/color]

There are two kinds of false prophets:

1) The first, the lying false prophet, announces events or says things that do not come true. He is obviously a false prophet
(Deuteronomy 18:20-22). The penalty in Old Testament times was death for false prophets (18:20). This kind of false prophet is the most easily recognized and least dangerous of the two.

2) The second kind of false prophet is more deceptive (Deuteronomy 13:1-3). He is impeccable in his words at first. An exhortation comes to pass. No fault can be found with his speech. Nevertheless, over time he draws the hearts of the people away from the Lord God Almighty. Finally, he leads them off to serve other gods. This kind of person is very dangerous, indeed the more dangerous of the two.

There are four kinds of False Prophecy:

Most of us are inclined to forget that there are false prophets. However, the frightening facts are these: there are at least two kinds of false prophets and four kinds of false prophecies. The details of these false prophecies are listed in Jeremiah 14:14.

1)[b]False Visions.[/b] These may come from the evil heart of the false prophet, or they may come from an evil spirit that controls him. The false visions are truly "seen" by the false prophet, but their source is devilish.

2) [b]Divinations.[/b] This is another form of false prophecy. Diviners may examine the entrails of animals or how rice floats in water. Or they may use a thousand other ways to divine. But their information is finally false even though some things may appear to be true, and entrapment of the simple is made easy. True prophets of God do not read palms or witch water. Joseph Smith is an example of a false prophet who used a "seer stone" for divination.

3)[b]Idolatries.[/b] This breaking of the first of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:3) is the third form of false prophecy. Idols in themselves are nothing, nothing at all (Jeremiah 10:1-5). However, if they are seized by demons, then the idols reflect the power of the demons involved. The Ten Commandments explicitly forbid idols or graven images of any kind. When demons empower the idols, it is not long before prophecies emerge from the demons. We dare not have anything with such demons (1 Corinthians 10:21). Their prophecies are false.

4)[b]Delusions. These are the final kind of false prophecy that I believe is alive and well on this earth today, and especially found in the charasmatic movement- delusions of the mind. They are not necessarily from the devil; they may simply be fabricated by the persons themselves. They are still false, however, and very dangerous. And we recall again that false prophets were under severe judgment in the Old Testament. Jeremiah reminds us that even though false prophets prophesy and say all kinds of fascinating things, the Almighty is saying, "I did not send them" (Jeremiah 14:15).[/b]

[color=990000]“The Holy Spirit will lead the believer into all truth”—John 16:13—I do believe this, however we are not like Christ. Christ, even though He was God almighty, laid His Godhead aside, and operated in the power of the Holy Spirit during his incarnation on this earth, but he had the Holy Spirit within him BEYOND (without) measure.

The difference between Christ and Christian believers is that Christ had the Holy Spirit without measure, at all times, while we have the Spirit with measure, at all times, until the rapture, when we will truly be like Him, Then we will have the Holy Spirit without measure as well.[/color]

John 3:34
34. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him

The Christian believer today has the Holy Spirit living inside of him. However his own flesh & sin nature still has access to his mind, as well as Satan. Satan still has access to the Christian, as well as the heathen, to tempt him, and to whisper falsehoods in his ear, just like he did to Eve, just like he did to Jesus.

God has given us His Word, so that we can compare what we hear to the Anvil, the Bible, where all truth can be found and compared against.

[b]God has even magnified His Word above His Name![/b]
Psalms 138:2
2.I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth:[b] for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.[/b]

[b]That is the missing link in the Church today- The study of God’s Word, and the understanding of the Doctrine taught in God’s Word[/b]

2 Timothy 2

1. Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
2. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
[b]15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18. Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[/b]

[b][color=CC3300]Now, by the use of Scripture, Please go back to my initial post on this thread, and refute what I posted, line by line from the Bible. God has provided us with prophecy throughout Scripture about end time events. And those end time events all focus around Israel, and around Jerusalem specifically---Zechariah 12:2----
2.Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.[/color][/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

Natan4Jesus wrote:
I wlll be perfectly frank with you,and firm, there is a spirit of fleshly religious pride so firmly camped out in the garrisons of your soul, that this will be my last posting with you. How dare you, in your pride, SLANDER other struggling saints with this poisonous bit of rhetoric:

There is so much wackiness out there today, with "thus saith the lord" christians, who not only have the Holy Spirit in them, but also Satan, whispering in their ears.

preceding that foul assumption is this statement to my query about how you ascertain that the anti-christ will be "Jewish":

My answer comes from God's Word.

and you utilize The Book of Daniel, as to the ethnic identity of the anti-christ!

I believe that the Beast (anthchrist) will be of Hebrew/Israeli descent.

Of course you do. and you get there with not only with faulty flimsy exegesis, but also an "I believe".

Men and women can slice and dice, and interpet and misinterpet the Bible 3 dozen different ways of Sunday, but none has the courage, just to say, "I don't know, God does, I'll leave it up to Him".

Why this great concern, and bandwidth expended on trying to ascertain who or what or when the antichrist will come?

What gain comes from that? What unity and love IN Christ comes from such a dialogue, especially when it allows fleshlings soaked thru and thru with religious pride and a whole lot of head knowledge a chance to show off their "great learning"?

what gain? what edification? what building up of the Body of Christ is there in such?

Would to God He empty you of this mind knowledge, hence your pride, burn you out of self, make you humble and meek as a child, to the point where you know NOTHING, but "Christ and Him crucified". Paul recognized this need, Jesus spoke of it, take it to prsyer and argue with it with Paul and Jesus, thats my prayer for you.

otherwise, I give you the "floor", opine and slander the saints (and Jews) all you desire.

neil

(later addition) Walter, I did re-read the Book of Daniel immediately after writing this post, and these two verses impacted me greatly:

"And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Daniel 12:8-9 (KJV)

and thats all I have to say in this thread.

I find these verses coming from GOD in the flesh to be heart breaking. Actually the whole of John 5, but this last verse mostly -

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Joh 5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Joh 5:41 I receive not honour from men.
Joh 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: [b]if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.[/b]

Robertson and others concur that this is prophetic of antiChrist -

" If another come (ean allos elthēi). Condition of third class (ean and second aorist active subjunctive of erchomai). Note allos, not heteros, like allon Iēsoun in 2 Corth 11:4. Similar prophecies occur in Mark 13:6, Mark 13:22 (Matt 24:5, Matt 24:24), all general in character like Antichrist in 2Thess 2:8-12. "

I see that my previous post was not well received. Maybe it was to long? So I will try to clarify and respond to some of the statements in my original post.

1 I never put much stock in the bible code ether but considering the other information pointing to the High Representative. . Dr Javier Solana, previously the Secretary‐General of NATO since 1995 is now the High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy and the Secretary‐General of both the Council of the European Union (EU) and the Western European Union (WEU). He was also the winner of
The International Charlemagne award in 2007.

This position of high rep. was created of with section 666 of the codified Europa documents. In 2000 Dr Javier Solana under, (recommendation 666, recommending action back to himself), was given emergency powers that even the E.U. Pres. does not have. It states that if he declares a state of emergency he gains control of the 10 member nations’ militaries of the European Union.

Daniel 7:23-25 (New International Version)
23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a 4th KINGDOM that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The TEN HORNS are TEN KINGS who will come from this kingdom. After them ANOTHER KING will arise, DIFFERENT from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. [a]
I want you to note the difference in the high rep. he is not an actual leader of a country but he has BEN GIVEN more power than all of the other leaders. There is also a web sight where you can get more info. Than you can possibly research just Google statewatch on line. They deal with civil liberties world wide. Try to research Yugoslovia.Also in what the E.U.’s parliament called a coop Dr Javier Solana past an initiative that hid over 1000 documents that were public knowledge. This went directly against the modified Brussels treaty. Dr Javier Solana also made an agreement with the U.S. State department to hide all agreements between the U.S. and the E.U. When I went to a link to look at this doc. All of the info. I was researching and the histories of the sources were pulled off my computer.

This is one of the organizations on statewatch look at what they say.

I.C.A.M.S. – International Campaign against Mass Surveillance\tGlobal security and the "war on terror" now dominate the global political agenda. Driven largely by the United States, a growing web of anti-terrorism and security measures are being adopted by nations around the world. This new "security" paradigm is being used to roll back freedom and increase police powers in order to exercise increasing control over individuals and populations.
Under the public's radar screen, a registration and surveillance infrastructure of global reach is quietly being constructed. It includes the convergence of national and international databases, the creation of data profiles for whole populations, the creation of a global ID system, the global surveillance of movement, and the global surveillance of electronic communications.
The International Campaign against Mass Surveillance (ICAMS) has launched a petition to demand that international organizations and national governments stop participating in the construction of this system.
Learn more about global registration and surveillance >>
I believe the office of high rep. is the office of the anti-christ. Dr Javier Solana was also tasked with coming up with a new funding instrument in 2007 this is a 7 year agreement. This man has been extremely successful at every thing he does. Some may argue that he would have to be accepted by the Jews as there christ. I would argue that he would have to be accepted by the world as a whole

Benjamin Creme from an Ascended Master known simply as "The Master”. Maitreya claims to be "The Christ" returned, yet there are many aspects of his character and many of his predictions (as given by Creme) which fall in line with the bible's predictions of the coming Antichrist and the events that will surround the end of the age. For instance, Maitreya predicts many natural disasters and a period of violence and destruction prior to earth's entry into the New Age; he warns that the worldwide capitalist financial system will be overturned; he predicts that a new world religion will be established under his guidance and will be aided by a future leader of the CATHOLIC CHURCH. This is the new age religion coming out of the U.N.
\t

If you will look in the beginning of this post you will see that Dr Javier Solana was awarded the

International Charlemagne award in 2007

The union between King Charlemagne and the pope in 800 A.D. was the emergents of the Holy Roman Empire. This union is represented in the E.U. parliament with stain glass that depicts a woman that rides a beast, a painting of a woman that rides a beast, out side a statue of a woman that rides a beast and E.U. STAMPS THAT HAVE A WOMAN RIDING A BEAST.

For defending the life and papacy of Pope Leo III, Charlemagne was thus proclaimed by the church as the head of the Holy Roman
Empire. Such a union between the roman church and roman state was significant, historical and unique

Note it says the head.

The anti-christ will not be a religious leader the bible he will not respect the god of his fathers. This will be something new and all encompassing, remember the whole world will be in awe and worship the beast.

Remember the Benjamin Crème along with Alice Bailey said that a leader from the Catholic Church would help he will not be the leader nor will he be the false prophet. THIS PROSTITUTE IS COMING OUT OF THE MODERN DAY BABYLON THE U.N.

Revelation 17:18 (New International Version)
18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
The U.N.. is in the most influential city in the world .N.Y. city. The woman that rides the 10 horn beast and the beast that come out of the Earth are one in the same. If you look at the symboligy of the 2nd beast in Rev. 13 you will see that it is America also.

Revelation 13:11-12 (New International Version)
The Beast out of the Earth
11Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.

This beast is a young nation because a lamb is a young animal .Initially it had the character of Christ because Christ is the only thing symbolized by a lamb in the bible but later on it will develop the character of Satan or speak as Satan. Our nation is 233 years old, we sent out more Christian missionaries than any other nation in history, our first text book was the holy bible; our country was blessed because of God’s promises in

Deuteronomy 28

But now our laws speak like MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus
Revelation 17:5

If you look it was the beast that was like the lamb that was responsible for the saint’s death.
Revelation 13:15 (New International Version)
15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Just recently Pres. Obama said,’ that America in her argents has failed to recognize the leading role of the E.U.
Revelation 13:12 (New International Version)
12He exercised all the authority of the first beast ON HIS BEHALF, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
Daniel 7:17 (New International Version)
17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth.

May God baptize our heart with fire? So when the day of the lord comes we will not be offended, so our love will not wax cold, so we will have oil in our jars, so it will not close on us like a trap, so we can buy from Jesus gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.. Rev.3:18

you know I don’t claim to be very smart. I just know that in the presence of the Holy Spirit God began to tell me things I did not want to hear and as he told me I watched them unfold in front of my eyes. Every time dead on. On C.N.N., the news papers, bible gate way and what he told me about the church is too heavy to carry. There is a church coming out of the U. N. –The new Babylon with a new age church that welcomes
All religions and stays away from divisive truths like so many of our biggest churches in America. If we are not going to stand for truth because it might offend some one and they may leave you church what do you think we will do when faced with death. You may be ready but what about the rest that listen to a shallow easy feel good message every week. All I know is when faced with the possibility of having to go threw death or the death of my children for the testimony of Jesus or having to survive during the trib. period I realized that there no amount of self effort that would bring me threw. The only thing that would do it was God’s Spirit in a way that He was all encompassing. When faced with this question I realized I was not where I need to be.

acts. 7:58-60
stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, DO NOT HOLD THIS SIN AGAINST THEM." When he had said this, he fell asleep.

To give you an idea of what level of surrender I was at, not that I am anything. My wife and I had 12 women in our house. These women are women who have struggled with substance abuse and have decided to commit 6 months of their life to Christian discipleship to overcome these strongholds in their lives. We were outreach and youth pastors at a ministry of about 500. We also had our own outreach ministry that goes into inner city areas. You are welcome to check us out at www. voicesofmercy.com or if you would like a more complete study on this mater email me at voicesofmercy@yahoo.com If I was not ready who do you think is? People are funny many times we don’t prepare until we know we have to.

I know the things that are happening now are the things for told in prophecy. The U.N has pasted the alliance of civilizations. The U.S. and the E.U. have past laws to implement this initiative The U.S. past the real I.D. ACT May 11th 2008 .Home land security also is requiring all petrochemical facilities that have maritime access and maritime workers to have a T.W.I.K.’s card .these come straight out of the U.N. under the A.o.C. These things are especially alarming considering the recent Home land security report labeled right wing extremist, listing people with Christian convictions as potential terrorist. Knowing the views and goals of the Strategic Foresight Group that was the think tank behind the A.o.C. : ‘that evangelical and protestant fundamentalist along with radical Islam are an enemy of civilization and should be EXTINGUISHED Another alarming fact is the association of Christian convictions with white supremacy in the home land security report written by Pres. Obama’s new appointee . Considering the relationship of our Pres. with Rev. Jeremiah Wright some one known to operate in black liberation theology which is clearly Marxist and occultist and not Christian. The Pres. went to his church for 20 years.

[T]he expressed aims and efforts of the United Nations will be eventually brought to fruition and a new church of God, gathered out of all religions and spiritual groups, will untidily bring to an end the great heresy of separateness.” —Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul (Emphasis added)

“[T]he Hierarchy took its stand upon the side of the United Nations and let it be known that it had done so. In doing this, definite physical steps were taken to aid the Forces of Light; men and leaders were carefully chosen and picked disciples were placed in positions of power and of authority. The leaders of the United Nations and of their armies … are able thus to work - consciously or unconsciously - under the inspiration of the Hierarchy. This has been amply demonstrated. On account of this decision of the Hierarchy, Christ became automatically the Leader of these Forces.…

“And the simple-minded are apt to forget that the Christ said, ‘He that is not with me is against me.’” —Alice Bailey & Djwhal Khul (Emphasis added)

we see the two world supper powers working hand in hand. One of which is the revived Roman Empire, a world religion emerging from the U.N. Revelation 17:18 (New International Version)
18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
The U.N. is in New York.

The Dispensation of Human Government, which ran from Noah to Abraham, made man responsible for governing himself when he did wrong. God gave him very basic principles (listed above) to guide him in this, and man was required to keep them. Since man would not listen to his conscience and let it lead him to God, God made mankind as a whole responsible for punishing the sins of individuals and keeping iniquity in check. Of course, in this also man failed, but now he cannot come to God and say he wasn't given a chance to try! Instead of forming a government that was consistent with God and His commands, man developed one that was directly against him. As the one world, global, universal, United Nations, common market, Babel of today, the Babel of 4300 years ago was more concerned about unity and progress than about their sins and God.

Not to mention every one on the planet is calling for a world currency in the middle of a global economic crisis.

I could go on for ever but I do not have the time if any one is really interested I am in the process of putting together a comprehensive report. You can contact me threw the web address in this report and I will send you a copy by email. There is no way to give you the report on this web sight. It is a lot of info. You will want to take the time to study it. I know one thing we will see if it is pre. Or post-trib.soon enough.

John 1:23 (New International Version)
23John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, "I am the voice of one calling in the desert, 'Make straight the way for the Lord.'
People get ready!!!!!!!!!!!!
:-(

dmoney, are your beliefs set in stone or are you open at all to other possibilities other than Javier Solana? It would be difficult for anyone to reply if you've got this as your final resolve. It would no longer be a discussion actually, but you just stating your opinion and making that the final answer. I suspect that may be why you've gotten no responses.

This is my observation of world events. God did not specifically tell me it was Javier or Obama as false prophet but they are both definitely involved with the occult and new world order. I do however believe that the office of high rep. is the anti- Christ office and America as the false prophet kingdom and the direct involvement of the Catholic Church. What God has specifically spoken to me about? Is the state of the the church. The spirit has led me into the things I spoke about and they all seem to fall together like hand in glove. One thing is very clear the vehicle by which they will mount the war against the saints is being set in place. The propaganda to get the people to accept A.o.C.’s agenda is being released on all fronts. Example:

1

Homosexual Booklet to Be Distributed to All 16,000 US School Districts\t

LifeSiteNews.com

Excerpt)

"Just the Facts about Sexual Orientation and Youth," is set to be distributed to all 16,000 school districts in the country.

The 24-page booklet by the National Education Association and American Psychological Association, tells students that homosexuality is a "normal expression of human sexuality".

"What's so scary and dogmatic about this report is that it communicates that religious-based viewpoints are harmful, and even dangerous," said Candi Cushman, education analyst for Focus on the Family Action.

The booklet particularly targets the idea that homosexuality is a condition that can be changed. It instructs educators, "Schools should be careful to avoid discussions of transformational ministry in their curriculum."
---------------------
Things are moving faster and faster toward pure evil.

Come quickly, Lord Jesus

2 The’ domestic rightwing terrorist and extremist groups,’ listed by home land security IS PROPAGANDA TO GET THE PEOPLE TO EXCEPT THE A.o.C.’s agenda to prevent the clash of civilizations to bring together a unified anti-christ gov. and if you oppose it you should be treated just like any other terrorist.

Revisiting the 1990s
(U//FOUO) Paralleling the current national climate, rightwing extremists during the
1990s exploited a variety of social issues and political themes to increase group visibility
and recruit new members. Prominent among these themes were the militia movement’s
Opposition to gun control efforts, criticism of free trade agreements (particularly those
With Mexico), and highlighting perceived government infringement on civil liberties as
Well as white supremacists’ long standing exploitation of social issues such as ABORTION, inter-racial crimes, and SAME-SEX MARRIGES. During the 1990s, these issues contributed to the growth in the number of domestic rightwing terrorist and extremist groups and an increase in violent acts targeting government facilities, law enforcement officers, banks, and infrastructure sectors.

(U) Economic Hardship and Extremism
(U//FOUO) Historically, domestic rightwing extremists have feared, predicted, and
Anticipated a cataclysmic economic collapse in the United States. Prominent
antigovernment conspiracy theorists have incorporated aspects of an impending
economic collapse to intensify fear and paranoia among like-minded individuals and to
attract recruits during times of economic uncertainty. Conspiracy theories involving
declarations of martial law, impending civil strife or racial conflict, suspension of the
U.S. Constitution, and the creation of citizen detention camps often incorporate aspects of
a failed economy. Antigovernment conspiracy theories and “end times” prophecies could
motivate extremist individuals and groups to stockpile food, ammunition, and weapons.
These teachings also have been linked with the radicalization of domestic extremist
Individuals and groups in the past, such as violent CHRISTIAN Identity organizations and
Extremist members of the militia movement

3:

I personally received a D.V.D. that was very well put together and very convincing called the obsession. It was moderate Muslims pleading for Americans to take a stand against terrorism .It started and ended with the statement ‘that all that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.’ HITLER DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING ON WHAT IS ABOUT TO GO DOWN .Not everyone got one of these D.V.D.’s because they were only sent to the ones they needed to convence. Check out the book called Steeling the Mind of America.

No nothing is set in stone .I have purposed in my heart to keep an open mind. We need to know the truth not be right. I welcome all insight.

God’s blessing and God’s revelation for all believers I pray!

:-)

Thank you for this post Brother. It was only the part over that one man's name being brought out that I felt hindered your thread.

You said - [i]"...but they are both definitely involved with the occult and new world order."[/i]

I doubt you will find many Globally that aren't.

I take Daniel 8 very seriously [7-12 actually] and you will see that there are multiple fulfilments of the Major Prophets.

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of GreciaH3120 : and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms [Dan 7} shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
Dan 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
Dan 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Dan 8:26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
Dan 8:27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

The "he-goat" takes out the kings of the Medes an Persians - then in vs 8 we see a Quartet and out from those 4 kingdoms [Dan 7] comes the little horn - the antiChrist.

Historically, we can trace who these 4 from Daniel are - IF one realizes that Daniel 7 says that they 'rise up' in the same generation that sees the Ancient of Days take them out - in other words - those who rose during the making of Israel a nation by their hands.

The little horn is in Dan 7 again and comes out from one of the four = the Diverse Beast.

Remembering that these 4, who are all 4 contemporary with each other, were involved in making and the Declaring of Israel as a Nation in "that generation."

GOD Bless!

Is Antichrist Jewish?

What is interesting about Antichrist is the description provided to us by Jesus Christ in the Book of Daniel, chapter 11.

Before I go into the quote, please realise that Antichrist will broker a peace treaty with the Arabs & Israel, and after the Temple is rebuilt, will walk into the rebuilt temple, and demand worship as God Almighty.

(Daniel 11:36-38)
36. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37.[b] Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers,[/b] nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

[b]Since antichrist will not regard the God of his fathers,[/b] he certainly must be a Jew to offend the Jews the way he does. Many of the Jews, that know their Bibles, will know that he is a counterfeit, the abomination of Desolation, as spoken of by Daniel 8:13-14

"13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,[b] and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?[/b]
14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. (3 1/2 years)

Once he (antichrist) walks into the Temple and demands worship, they will know who he really is from the Old Testament.

And Gentile's, who have studied the Bible, who were never saved & have entered the Tribulation will know the antichrist from the New Testament, in (Matthew 24:15-25), from the very words of Jesus Christ:

15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17. Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18. Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20. But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21. For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25. Behold, I have told you before.

The Jews today are waiting for the Messiah to save them. They are surronded by enemies, both foreign and domestic. Jerusalem is becoming a "cup of trembling". However, they are looking for the same type of Messiah that they looked for at the time of Christ. A Political Messiah---One who would free them from the boot of Rome, and bring in the millenium.

Today, the Temple is ready to be requilt. I understand they have recreated everything as it was in the beginning. Jews with the last name of Cohen have been DNA tested and determined to be of the tribe of Levi. An entire Priesthood has been trained. The red heffer has been bread, and will be ready to cleanse the Temple. All they need now is Antichrist to provide them with their peace treaty and Temple. He will be their "political" Messiah, until he demands worship, and then their eyes will be opened.

Sincerely,

Walter

To anomity:

He will honor a god of forces (v. 38). The Hebrew word corresponding to "forces" is ma'uzzim (singular, maoz). Elsewhere in the Old Testament, the singular form is normally translated "strength." For example,
. . . The joy of the LORD is your strength [maoz].
Nehemiah 8:10
. . . The LORD is the strength [maoz] of my life; . . . . Psalm 27:1

Thus, the expression "god of forces" might be rendered "god of strengths." But unlike the more common words for strength, maoz specifically denotes a strong thing or place, such as a rock or a fortress. In the KJV it states, in Daniel 11:38 But in his (place) estate shall he honour the God of forces:... The usual interpretation is that instead of worshiping any supernatural deity, the Antichrist will worship military might. In other words, he will have virtually a religious zeal for accumulating arms and waging warfare. Yet this interpretation cannot possibly be correct, for the same verse goes on to say that the god of fortresses will be one whom the fathers of the Antichrist did not know. No generation and no lineage have been free of men devoted to armament and conquest.

What then is the true identity of the Antichrist's god? The answer depends on recognition that of all men other than Christ who have desired to rule the world, the Antichrist will succeed for a while. The world lies in Satan's control, and thus it must be through Satan's patronage that the Antichrist will rise to the highest pinnacle of power. To secure Satan's favor, he will be obliged to meet the requirement that Christ shunned. Satan told Jesus,
6 . . . All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Luke 4:6-8}

[b]It is clear that the title "god of forces" for the sole deity that the Antichrist will recognize and worship must be a veiled reference to none other than Satan.[/b]

What exactly are the strong things, the forces, that Satan governs? A recurrent teaching of Scripture, including the Book of Daniel, is that Satan is the head of an organized host of fallen, wicked angels. Elsewhere in Scripture, Satan is given titles similar to "god of forces." He is the "prince of the power of the air" (Eph. 2:2), "a ruler of the darkness of this world" (Eph. 6:12). The title "god of forces" is consistent also with one of Daniel's major themes: namely, the angelic realm. A few verses earlier, in chapter 10, the book reveals that Satan has powerful lieutenants with the rank of prince. Now the view expands to take in other forces who do his bidding.

The text presents an apparent contradiction. The angel presenting the oracle says in one breath that the Antichrist will not honor any god (vs. 36-37), and in the next breath that he will honor a god of forces (v. 38).

Help in reconciling these two assertions comes from the next title used for[b] Satan. He is called "a strange god" (v. 39). As used here, the term implies a god unrecognized by the principal religions of mankind—as it says, "a god whom his fathers knew not" (v. 38)[/b].

Construing the term in this way clarifies the statement that [b]the Antichrist will not honor any god.[/b] The statement must be looking only at the traditional pantheon. The view excludes Satan, who, under his own name and in his own person, has never been a general object of worship.

The oracle proceeds to illuminate Satan's role in the regime of the Antichrist, but, unfortunately, the KJV offers a hard to usnderstand translation. The subject of "acknowledge" is not "he," the Antichrist, but the word wrongly translated "whom."

The oracle should read: "And he will do this [that is, honor his god with precious things] in the fortresses of forces with an alien god: any who acknowledge him [the alien god] he [the Antichrist] will greatly honor, and he will make them rule over many, and the land he will divide for a reward."
Daniel 11:39

In the phrase "with an alien god," the preposition is substantially equivalent to the English "with." It can be understood to mean "in the service of," and the whole phrase can be viewed as modifying "forces." Thus, the forces occupying the fortresses where the Antichrist will honor his god will have this same god as their commander.

The oracle reveals that the Antichrist will award wealth and power only to those who are willing to acknowledge Satan. Since the description of the Antichrist's religion precedes the account of his conquests, we infer that his worship of Satan will begin early in his career, before he usurps power over three kingdoms. But whether his alliance with diabolical power will be public knowledge then, we cannot tell. [b]It is likely that until the world acclaims him as ruler, he will hide his Satanism from all but his closest confederates.[/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

[b]How would your view of Christianity change if you came to believe that the Rapture, Tribulation, Antichrist, mark of the beast, Second Coming of Christ, and many other supposedly future events had already taken place?[/b]

There is a growing group of Evangelicals who look to the past instead of the future to find fulfillment for many of these prophetic events. This view is commonly known as Preterism, and it produces one of the most extreme forms of Replacement Theology (where the Church replaces Israel), since preterists widely teach that God has divorced Israel and replaced it with the Bide of Christ---the church.

Definition

The term Preterism is based on the Later preter, which means “past” or “gone by”. Preterism teaches that many of the prophecises in the Book of Revelation, the Book of Zechariah, and the Olivet Discourse were fulfilled in the events surrounding the fall of Jerualsem in 70 A.D. Many Preterists actually believe that we are living in some form of the new heavens and the new earth of Revelation 21-22.

Generally, the preterist spectrum can be divided into two categories: partial and full Preterism. Full preterists hold that all Bible prophecy was fulfilled with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. If there is a future Second Coming, they say, the Bible does not speak of it. Full preterists also believe there is not future bodily resurrection, which places them outside the realm of historic Christian orthodoxy.

Moderate preterists believe that most, but not all, prophecy was fulfilled in the 70 A.D. destruction of Jerusalem. Although they see many traditional Second Advent passages as fulfilled, they do believe a few passages still teach a future Second Coming (Acts 1:9-11; 1 Cor 15:51-53; 1 Thes 4:16-17). They also see a future judgment and the resurrection of believers at Christ’s bodily return.

Advocated

Full Preterism arose in North America during the 1950’s and 60’s within [b]Church of Christ circles[/b]. No doubt the American chapion of full Preterism has been Max R. King and his son Tim, formerly of the[b] Parkman Road Church of Christ in Warren, Ohio[/b]. Formerly moderate preterist David Chilton coverted tofull Preterism seral years before his death in 1997. Other full preterists include Ed Steven, Don K. Preston, John Noe, and John L. Bray. An amazingly high proportion of preterist Web sites advocate full a preterist postion, even though they likely represent smaller overall numbers than partial preterists.

[b]Partial pretersists include a number of weel known evangelicals: R.C. Sprould, R.C. Sproul, Jr., Kenneth L. Gentry, Gary DeMar, Greg Bahnsen, Fary North, Hank Hannegraph (The Bible Answer Man?), and Steve Gregg. Many lesser known partial preterists inhabiyt virtually every community in North America.[/b]

[b]Preterists are often found within conservative Reformed circles like the Orthodox Presbyterians (OPC) and the Presbyterian Church of America (PCA). Many people within the home school movement and conservative politically active evangelicals favor Preterism.[/b]

Key Passages

The bible verse preterists use most widely in their attempts to establish their thesis concering Bible prophecy is Matthew 24:34 “ Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” (See also Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)

Kenneth Genty said of this much debated passage, “This statement of Christ is indusputability clear---and absolutely demanding of a first century fulfillment of the events in the preceding verses, including the Great Tribulation.”

However, I believe the timing of [b]”This Generation[/b]” is governed by the related phrase [b]all these things,[/b], which refers to events Christ described in verses 4-31, which are events of the Tribulation. Consequently, Christ was saying that the[b] generation that “sees all these things” will exist until all the events of the future Tribulation are fulfilled literally.[/b]

Preterists ignore the fact in Matthew 24 that it is Israel whom the Lord is rescuing. Matthew 22-23 speaks of Israel’s judgment, which came in 70 A.D., but one should not ignore the identity of the nation rescued in 24:27-31.[b] It is Israel, so this clearly a future event. This is a literal interpretation and one that was NOT FULFILLED in the first century.[/b]

[b]Preterists believe they are driven to 70 A.D. fulfillment of Revelation because,like the Olivet Discourse, they believe it says it was to be fulfilled “soon”. Thus, they say terms like QUICKLY and AT HAND teach that Revelation had to be fulfilled within a few years of its writing. Even though virtually everyone down through Chruch History has held to a 95 A.D date for the writing of Revelation, preterists say the book was written in 65 A.D. The 95 A.D. date renders the preterist view impossible and fortifies the argument that the term quickly and at hand teach imminence—that Christ can return at any moment----not that He will return soon.[/b]

Sincerely,

Walter

To Anonmyity:

I'm not sure if you wanted further information about the probable/possible nationality of Antichrist, or not, but here is what I believe:

Is the Antichrist Jewish?

Is the Antichrist Jewish? Although there is no definitive answer, two Bible verses provide us with good reason to believe he will be. The first appears in the Book of Genesis when God prophesies the coming of Israel’s Messiah and Satan’s Antichrist.

“ And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:15

Later on, when Jacob is blessing his sons, he makes this prophecy about Dan:

“16. Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. 17. Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward. Genesis 49:16-17

This reference to a serpent striking a heel may indicate that the Antichrist will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan, but it isn’t certain and many reasonable people are divided on this issue.

In addition to this reference to the tribe of Dan, the Book of Daniel points out that the Antichrist will worship himself above all else:

“37. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all..” Daniel 11:37

This passage is often referenced by those who believe the Antichrist will be of Jewish heritage. [b]The fact that he will have no regard “for the God of his fathers” is viewed as a reference to the monotheistic God of the Jews.[/b]

Adding further fuel to speculation that the Antichrist might be Jewish is the following passage from the Book of Revelation:
“11. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.” Revelation 13:11

This verse states that the Antichrist will “come up out of the earth,” a biblical phrase often associated with the promised land and the Jewish people. Throughout the Old Testament, the earth is used as a symbol for Israel, while the sea is used as a symbol for the Gentile peoples:

“1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.” Revelation 13:1

The verse above is a reference to the Antichrist’s kingdom, which as stated before, will be a revived form of the Roman Empire – thus emerging from among the Gentile people. But all the authority of this kingdom will be exercised by “the beast from the earth” referenced in Revelation 13:11:

“And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.” Revelation 13:12

The first beast, whose “death-wound had been healed,” is the revived Roman Empire. The Book of Daniel clearly states that this world empire will re-emerge in the last days, thus becoming healed of its mortal wound. But the one who rules it will “come up out of the earth.” Could this be a reference to the Antichrist’s Jewish heritage?

[b]Will the Jews Accept the Antichrist as Messiah?[/b]

All the speculation surrounding the Antichrist’s possible Jewish heritage lends itself to another question: Will the Jews accept the Antichrist as their Messiah? Many believe that the following statement by Jesus is really a prophecy that the Jewish people will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah:

“I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” John 5:43

The Antichrist would have to be Jewish in order to be accepted by Israel as the Messiah. Many believe this scripture points to a specific person in the future who will “come in his own name” and be accepted as the Redeemer of Israel.

[b]Conclusion[/b]
It is an absolute certainty that the Antichrist will arrive on the world scene as the ruler of a revived Roman empire. However, it is less certain whether or not he will be of actual Italian descent or some other ethnic background. Several scriptures offer the possibility that he could be Assyrian, Greek, or Jewish. But none of them offer us the definitive statement contained in Daniel 9:26.

So how do we rectify these seemingly contradictory prophecies concerning the Antichrist’s nationality? Is he Roman? Italian? Jewish? Assyrian? Greek? He doesn’t necessarily have to be exclusively one or another.[b] He could be an Assyrian Jew born and raised in Italy, or any number of possible combinations.[/b] We don’t know for certain, but history indicates that each of these prophecies will be harmonized when the Antichrist finally appears.

[b]Two thousand years ago, the seemingly contradictory prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah were all harmonized in the life of Jesus Christ who was a Nazarene born in Bethlehem who came out of Egypt. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see how this was possible, but for the Jewish scholars who lived before the birth and ministry of Jesus, these prophecies were a topic of intense debate. Would the Messiah come from Nazareth, Bethlehem, or Egypt? The answer, of course, was all three.

In similar fashion, a debate continues today in regard to the prophecies of the Antichrist and his national identity. But no matter how much we speculate on the ultimate meaning of the scriptures, we won’t know the absolute truth until God’s appointed time. As such, it is wise to study these prophecies and teach them to others, so that Christians of the Antichrist’s generation will be able to positively identify him based on sound Scriptural evidence.[/b]

May the Lord Jesus Christ, upon His Return, find us actively engaged in teaching these truths to others. Until then, live with a patient and enduring faith that His Return is soon upon us.

Sincerely,

Walter

anonymity wrote:
Waltern,

thanks for taking the time to respond.

Deleted-------------

I don't know if you caught my responding question to your view on the anti Christ's race.

Deleted

To anonymity:

I hope that the Scriptures that I quoted were helpful. What Scripture. or common sense for that matter, can possibly support the idea of the Jewish Priesthood accepting an Arab Messiah?

I have studied and thought about this for over 50 years, and have never heard of such a preposterous scenario (ie an Arab Messiah for the Nation of Israel).

Sincerly,

Walter

anonymity wrote:
Waltern,

thanks for the info and answering my question or "attempting" jk haha.

I think we can be fairly sure that it will not be a Jew from Israel but it could be a man of Jewish decent like much of your European nobility. One thing is for sure is he is going to be some one with the capability to take political control of the revived Roman Empire.

Daniel 7:23-25 (New International Version)
23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time

If you look at Dan 7:24 the last part of the verse it says the anti-christ will take control of this empire of 10 kings. The EU. is currently ruling over what used to be the Roman Empire. The EU. also has just 10 member nation or kings that can vote .These nations are called the modified Brussels treaty or the WEU. Those same 10 members all have militaries. The union of these militaries for a defense mechanism is referred to as the WEU. AND THERE IS ONLY ONE MAN THAT HAS THE POWER TO COMMAND ALL OF THOSE 10 ARMIES .It is the high rep. for the EU. This position was created under section 666 of the codified European documents and under recommendation 666 the high rep. was given the authority to take control of these 10 militaries if he declares a state of emergency. There is absolutely no chance of any one from Israel having any chance of gaining that authority. The bible tells us very clearly where the anti-christ will come from. The hand writing is on the wall. May God bless all of his saints with oil.
;-)

We all know that antichrist will rule from Iraq. At least that is what the "left Behind" series of Books by Tim Lehaye and Larry Jenkins told the story.

Many people in American are not familiar with the largest Embassy in the World. What Embassy is that? The United States Embassy in Faluga, Iraq.

This is one link with a picture

[url=http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0415-07.htm]Massive Embassy in Iraq flaunts U.S. Power, Critics say[/url]

This is another one. The American Embassy sits on 104 acres of land, right on the Tigris River!

The pictures that were available 2 years ago, that showed the magnitude of this thing are no longer online.

[url=http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/langewiesche200711]American Embassy in Iraq, on the Tigris River[/url]

Based upon the above, it appears that Antichrist will indeed rule from Baghdad. He will rule the part of the statue with 10 toes of iron mixed with clay, the revived Roman Empire.

We will not be around to see Antichrist or any of this, but we will come with Jesus Christ, when He comes with His Saints at His second coming!

Daniel 2:44-45
44.And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45. Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Sincerely,

Walter

To Kingjimmy:

No, the Pope is not the Antichrist, the Pope is the false prophet, leading the false church into the Great Tribultation.

The Reformers were pretty close. The Pope will be part of the Un-Holy Trinity, always working in unison with the Antichirst!

KingJimmy, have you had a chance to listen to Roger Oakland and his analysis of the "Emerging Church", that is ROME?

CHECK IT OUT HERE:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiLUjYauzUs]Roger Oakland The Emerging Church which leads to ROME[/url]

Sincerely,

Walter

KingJimmy wrote:

There are other Scriptures which also tell us where he will come from. As I wrote earlier on this thread, it is possible the Antichrist come from Syria:

Ancient Assyria also included Babylon. To be specific, Assyria never included any European countries within it's boundaries.

-Daniel mentions "the king of the North" (Daniel 11:6-8,11,13,15,40). Syria is directly north of Israel.

Technically speaking, "the king of the North" or "armies of the North" was ancient Babylon. As large as Syria is presently, it still doesn't quite encompass ancient Babylon and the "plains of Shinar." Of course, being that area is so volatile, the borders could be easily redefined.

Either way, I think there is enough clearly spelled out in prophecy to discount any notions of a "revived Roman empire" headed up by a European anti-Christ. Given the present political climate, I think a strong case could be made for some sort of Islamic anti-Christ, especially considering that prophecy is pretty clear about the origins and source of his activity. Not to mention the clear anti-Semitic disposition of the anti-Christ and his desire to persecute the Jews and lead an assault on Jerusalem.

I think we can be sure of one thing, the Reformers got it wrong, the pope is not THE anti-Christ :-)

I dipped into this thread but didn't have time to post on that day, but thought this is interesting when considering where 'Babylon' might be. Certainly, I believe there is significance in the location of the Babylon Gate, even though I'm not sure how to define that significance.

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/04/iraq.babylon]Iraq appeals to Berlin for return of Babylon Gate - 2002[/url]

A couple of days ago, I read how Samson took the gates off a city in enemy (Philistine) territory (They were not at war at the time.) and I realised that removing the gates is a fatal breach of defences, or, it is a sign of the victory of the conqueror who has prevailed to enter.

Psalm 24: 7 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; and be ye lift up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 8 Who [is] this King of glory? The LORD strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle. 9 Lift up your heads, O ye gates; even lift [them] up, ye everlasting doors; and the King of glory shall come in. 10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, he [is] the King of glory.