Moses, a type of Jesus

[color=000000]Make the comparison between the two from their births and upbringing, the silent years and then their own peculiar wilderness experience. Moses, forty years, Jesus, forty days. Moses, the deliverer, Jesus, the deliverer. The big thing is that they were both instructed by God. Moses disobeyed Him with the result that he could not enter the promised land.

What was the one thing He disobeyed God in that carried such spiritual significance that, as with Adam, could not be forgiven?

It might also be interesting to note that the guilt of Moses, was not passed on. . [/color] :-)

ceedub wrote:
Just curious, how do we know that the sin of Moses, or Adam for that matter, wasn't forgiven?

Personally, I have my own view on why Moses wasn't allowed into the promised land for that sin. What's yours?

Forgiveness carries with it, restoration.

ceedub wrote:
If Moses wasn't restored, that proves he wasn't forgiven? So what is Moses eternal state, heaven or hell? Or is this not what you mean?

[color=000000]How about we keep this confined to his not entering the promised land, OK? If we do that then entering the promise land becomes a consequence that we having bearing upon after we are delievered. Should we now call it, "God's rest"? How about, Kingdom? How about, "Born Again"?[/color]

[color=000000]"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they [b]again crucify[/b] to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB) [/color]

[color=000000]The rock Moses struck twice represented Jesus. Jesus even testifies of this in John. Jesus will never be crucified-struck, twice. Now, can there be any question as to why Moses missed out on the promise land?[/color]

Intense, you seem to be jumping back and forth between the physical "promised land" and the spiritual. Would it not help to speak or ask more lucidly, candidly - straight forward?

What Promised Land are you staying with?

Mat 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.

Thanks!

No. Because they link together as one. The physical always represents something of the Spiritual. Throughout the bible, it is known as types and anti-types. Even the 7 seven giants represent seven that are in us that must be overcome that we possess the land . . . our life in Christ, lived unto the Father as He lived it. This is the cross principle intended for Adam, Jesus showed us that we must embrace as He did.

Oy - you do love to play with heads. LOL

Brother, we have young folk on here as well and I'm far from being one - but this one thread alone could sound as if you believe Moses didn't make Salvation. Can you see that?
Can you see why speaking clearly helps us 'all' - whereas eventually, you run the risk of having no replies using the Intense-speak. Not calling it double-speak mind you - just a not-quite lucid-speak.

Thanks again!

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
Oy - you do love to play with heads. LOL

Brother, we have young folk on here as well and I'm far from being one - but this one thread alone could sound as if you believe Moses didn't make Salvation. Can you see that?
Can you see why speaking clearly helps us 'all' - whereas eventually, you run the risk of having no replies using the Intense-speak. Not calling it double-speak mind you - just a not-quite lucid-speak.

Thanks again!

Why not let it say what it says? Moses missed out on entering the promised land because he disobeyed. What the promised land is, Spiritually speaking, is for one to study out. I have said nothing but that. In the study of it all is God's ways found out. Why, might I ask, are these discussions to be strictly about "making it to Heaven" or arguing about who is right about how to make it? Heaven is not my goal. I am a Christian. Only Christians go to Heaven. That is the only place they can go when they die. Therefore, the Bible is more than making Heaven our goal. It is about making it as a son of God, joint-heir with Jesus, one in whom He can say well done, good and faithful one.

I believe it may have gotten unto "Heaven / Salvation" by this post of yours earlier re Moses - which would also forfeit one's standing as a son & joint heir ---

[i]""For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)

The rock Moses struck twice represented Jesus. Jesus even testifies of this in John. Jesus will never be crucified-struck, twice. Now, can there be any question as to why Moses missed out on the promise land?"[/i]

And why I replied with these vs.s -

Mat 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
I believe it may have gotten unto "Heaven / Salvation" by this post of yours earlier re Moses - which would also forfeit one's standing as a son & joint heir ---

[i]""For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB)

The rock Moses struck twice represented Jesus. Jesus even testifies of this in John. Jesus will never be crucified-struck, twice. Now, can there be any question as to why Moses missed out on the promise land?"[/i]

And why I replied with these vs.s -

Mat 17:1-3 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, and was transfigured before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him.

As with Moses so with Jesus. Both were human who had intense intimacy with the Father, chosen of Him to represent him in the Earth. Jesus, of course, being of Him. Now, having said that, can we have an understanding of the severity of obeying God regardless of our relationship with Him, regardless of Him "knowing" us and us "knowing" Him? He is no respecter of persons when His holiness demands perfection-holiness. Moses missed it and paid the consequence, not unto death or loss of justification mind you, but God's best in this life and all that it could be, given the time Moses lived and governed, i.e., the physical Promised land. With Jesus, had He failed in the slightest, the Spiritual Promised land not only would have been forfeited but human life as we know it would have forever been damned, wandering, tormented by Satan and his legions, eternally separated from God. For this I praise God for the man Jesus who did not fail and who now sits at the right hand of God making intercession in our behalf. Can you see that?

This last post of yours Brother again - is as clear as a bell. Thank you - yes.

Though I'm sure the debate will continue with your other post ---

Quote: "Therefore, the Bible is more than making Heaven our goal. It is about making it as a son of God, joint-heir with Jesus, one in whom He can say well done, good and faithful one."

Jesus-is-GOD wrote:
This last post of yours Brother again - is as clear as a bell. Thank you - yes.

Though I'm sure the debate will continue with your other post ---

Quote: "Therefore, the Bible is more than making Heaven our goal. It is about making it as a son of God, joint-heir with Jesus, one in whom He can say well done, good and faithful one."

The knowledge of the ultimate intention of God for mankind as put forth in the Bible transcends justification and sanctification. If the subject matter doesn't move beyond those two topics between Christians who consider themselves knowledgeable, they are demonstrating they don't know the message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone,

Intense,

may I suggest a few things to you?

It is important that we have, not only a sincere desire to communicate something to others, but the ability and grace from God to do it.

Paul the Apostle, who I suppose had as much knowledge of God's intention for mankind as you or I or anyone else, said that the things that he wrote to others, he wrote by the grace of God that was given to him.

When someone is asking you to consider that the way you are expressing yourself is unclear, we can demonstrate that we too have grace, and take heed to them.

The same Apostle Paul said that those who would build up God's building should be very careful how they are building.

Sure. Where have I been disrepectful?

ChrisJD wrote:
HI again Intense,

Thank you for your time and considering this.

I'm not sure why you are asking that. It was suggested to you that you are not being clear in the way you are expressing yourself(EDIT and also that others who are young may be reading what you are writting).

Maybe a good place to start would be to slow down, and think over what has already been said.

ChrisJD wrote:
Intense, you certainly can.

But if you want to demonstrate that you have the grace to teach others and talk about what it is you are talking about, put your sword away, stop defending yourself and act like you have the wisdom that you want to portray.

But I only defend myself when attacked. That is what defending means last time I looked.

And wisdom what, you say? Except for your insult, You aren't being very clear about what it is you are trying to convey here.

Hello ceedub,

My 2c = Numbers 20:12 - unbelief.

What you said about covenant types is also true, and the answer to whether Moses sin was not imputed to him by God is, surely, because he was on the Mount of Transfiguration with Elijah.

Rather than further sully threads, may I quote Paul from his epistle to the Philippians?

"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind."

Brother, and I say this in love, I feel like you're "trolling", meaning you forward a question, knowing full well what your "opinion" is, then when others "feed" into that question, you eviscerate them, or as you say "defend" yourself. Time is too short, for the love of God, please....stop.

let me just continue with this bit of Scripture from Paul:

"Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves." Philippians 2:3(above is Philippians 2:1-2)

Brother, you, of course, have the liberty and freedom to your "opinion", and you have the freedom to state it on this cyber forum, but in the end, you might whip yourself up into such a religious froth, that wisdom and love IN Christ flees from you, and you'll probably get bounced. I speak from experience, as I have let my emotions get the better of me.

Do I agree with every brother or sister who posts on this forum? No. But what I do is count them more "significant" than myself, which is the essence of "dying to self", which I'm sure you know, so I entreat you, in all humility, walk it then, be sweet in the Lord, dont be "intense" Brother Ken. It will only lead to confusion, contention and reproach. The time is too short for all that.

I pray you recieve my short missive in the love of Christ, as not a rebuke, but an exhortation to a Higher Standard. We are all working out our own salvation's with fear and trembling.

In Jesus love, neil

[color=000000]

Natan4Jesus wrote: Rather than further sully threads, may I quote Paul from his epistle to the Philippians?

"So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind."

Brother, and I say this in love, I feel like you're "trolling", meaning you forward a question, knowing full well what your "opinion" is, then when others "feed" into that question, you eviscerate them, or as you say "defend" yourself. Time is too short, for the love of God, please....stop.

let me just continue with this bit of Scripture from Paul: "Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves." Philippians 2:3(above is Philippians 2:1-2)

Brother, you, of course, have the liberty and freedom to your "opinion", and you have the freedom to state it on this cyber forum, but in the end, you might whip yourself up into such a religious froth, that wisdom and love IN Christ flees from you, and you'll probably get bounced. I speak from experience, as I have let my emotions get the better of me.

Do I agree with every brother or sister who posts on this forum? No. But what I do is count them more "significant" than myself, which is the essence of "dying to self", which I'm sure you know, so I entreat you, in all humility, walk it then, be sweet in the Lord, dont be "intense" Brother Ken. It will only lead to confusion, contention and reproach. The time is too short for all that.

I pray you recieve my short missive in the love of Christ, as not a rebuke, but an exhortation to a Higher Standard. We are all working out our own salvation's with fear and trembling.

"Therefore leaving aside the elementary teaching of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, . . . And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises." Hebrews 6:1-3,11-12 (KJV) [/color]

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi everyone,

Ken, I'm sorry that something that I wrote to you was insulting. Please write to me if you would like to discuss it.

Ken, may I please ask you to consider what Neil wrote to you?

"Does my knowledge of the Bible, centered in our privilege of son-ship in the Father, offend you that much?"

Ken, I don't think anyone is offended by whatever knowledge you have. It is the way you are conducting yourself in your responses to others.

Please at least consider that three people have said something to you now.

Thank you very much for your time,

Chris

Oh, I do consider it very much. I also consider the motivation behind why anyone would take offence when none has been given. I find no reason for folk to take offence with someone's teaching other than their biasness against teaching that hints of being more or something added to, what they already believe is the complete message of the scriptures; against the doctrine of justification/sanctification. Many Christians of tradition give no thought to the subject of Joint-heir-ship with Christ, assuming it to be an automatic simply by claimig Christ as Savior. I know the scriptures speak otherwise. That isn't received very well by those who won't take the time to walk it out, perhaps fearing it might require more than attending church on Sunday morning.. I don't know. It is a puzzle to me.

I don't care if you are Catholic or a Baptist. I don't ask. I am always objective when discussing the scriptures. I expect everyone is until something as this happens. I have not written anything that should be taken as a personal affront to anyone. So what else can it be, unless you can point to something I have overlooked? Certainly, if I have offended, apologies from me should be called for. Perhaps you have some particulars you can point me to? . . :-(