Bible Study at Hooters

I just saw on the news that there is a group or ministry that has started a bible study at a Hooters Restaurant / Bar. The idea is to reach the "unchurched".In the article I saw it mentioned that even one Hooters employee became a Christian. It did not say if she left Hooters. I suspect from the article that she still works there.Has anyone else heard of this? I guess it really doesn't surprise me that this is going on. I'm posting it for the sake of everyone knowing and being aware of it. Any thoughts or comments are welcome.Pressing on,Mike

All I can say is "what is going on with Christianity?!" I am not one who is prudish by any means. I am also very familiar with the attitides and thinking that goes along with a place like Hooters. This is ridiculous. This is something I can see myself believing or promoting when I was a very lukewarm christian and still wanted to call myself a Christian but also live my life MY way.I cannot decide if I am very angry or very sad about this.In Him, Chanin

It just crossed my mind that there may be many people on this site in other countries that don't know what Hooters is. Hooters is a bar /grill type restaurant where the waitresses where very little clothing and what they do where is to enhance there bodies. This is just another example of where professing Christinaity in America is at.BTW Greg, I had no expectations in mind to what the response would be. I'm fairly certain that most on this site would agree that this is discusting and true Christians will need to make a clear stand and separation from these type of things in the last days.In Christ,Mike

All I can say is "what is going on with Christianity?!"If by "Christianity" you're referring to the majority of professing Christians in the United States, I'd respond "it's four days dead." Possibly more.I am not one who is prudish by any means.It would be utterly ridiculous to accuse you of being prudish for viewing establishments like Hooters as the abominations they are. Alternatively, being "prudish" is a good thing, to that extent.I cannot decide if I am very angry or very sad about this.Both would seem appropriate.Edit - I wonder if they preach out of Matthew 5:28 at these studies?

BTW Greg, I had no expectations in mind to what the response would be. I'm fairly certain that most on this site would agree that this is discusting and true Christians will need to make a clear stand and separation from these type of things in the last days.It is not necessarily disgusting--it all depends on how the Bible Study and the events are conducted. I was very impressed by the "Unchurch" during my university years, who conducted their meetings in bars, with an eye to talking about the gospel to those who would rather die than go to a church. Those Christians did not involve themselves in the drinking, etc. All they were doing is this: "if I can't bring them to the church to hear the gospel, I will bring the gospel to them right where they are." I suspect many "proper" Christians today sound a lot more like the Pharisees in Jesus' days than they thought. Jesus was accused of being a drunkard and glutton and of going to parties and of hanging out with sinners and prostitutes. So if Jesus were to come today instead of two thousand years ago, may be (and just may be) he would be reaching out to those who hangs out at Hooters. I suppose some of his disciples might have to suffer the same criticism if they are serious about Jesus' call to reach the sinners.

Hi Greg,You said: "I am not sure what response you are expecting brother, I think its a bad thing. Whats next bible studies in strip clubs? Even the word that classifies the venue is vile and offensive to the mind. These venues manufacture drunkeness and also lustfulness of the flesh at the same time. I really think there should be a line drawn with this, we are to seek and save the lost and yes be around drunkards and gluttons as Jesus did, but not at a level of comprimising our integrity. If people are seeking after spiritual matters it would be a little thing to ask them to leave their place of sin to go to a neutral place to ask and think on the spiritual."27 ¶ And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.28 And he left all, rose up, and followed him.29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.I think Jesus has a different opinion.Clutch

Agent001 and Clutch:You both bring some good points on this subject that we should all consider and pray about.I would agree that we need to be around the unsaved, lost, sinners, etc. However, I do not believe that when Jesus ate with the sinners is the same as a Christian going into a Hooters to have bible study. If we simply use the example of Jesus eating with sinners does that mean I should go to Hooters or any other establishment like it and eat and drink?I do understand the points that you are trying to bring across but I am of the opinion that it is a much different scenario. The environment it much different and not a good place for any man to be regardless of his apparent motives.Sincerely in Christ,Mike

Hi 5,Jesus went to Levi's house to have dinner and a Bible study. Had everybody been going to Hooters instead of Levi's that day for wings and a salad, Jesus would have gone where the sinners were. That's consistant operational procedure on His part.Remember Mary Magdelene? She was the prostitute that Jesus cast 7 devils out of. He didn't invite her to a more appropriate place to get her saved. He met her where she was.Some things you don't have to pray about. You've already been given concise written instructions. Read Mark Chapter 16 and Matthew Chapter 28. If you have any questions refer back to Mark 16.The active verb in "The Great Commission" is GO!"..all the world" is an inclusive phrase which includes Hooters.Clutch

I agree that Hooters is not a place that should be acceptable for Bible Studies. A Bible study is intended to do just that, Study the Bible. In studying the Bible, we must make ourselves open and as pure of heart as possible in order to accept the blessings which may come from studying the word of God. I doubt that this is possible in a place such as Hooters, especially for the men in the group. I know of no man who would not be distracted by the young ladies who work at Hooters dressed in their skimpy, immodest outfits. While there may be a small likelihood that someone could get saved through this type of gathering, I greatly doubt that the masses of people who eat at Hooters will be effected in the least by a Bible study there. I would argue that this may actually damage any testimony the 'Christian' group had to begin with.A more Christian route would be to stand outside of Hooters, in the parking lot, and pass out tracts and invite people either to church, or to a Bible study at another, neutral location as suggested below. Christ did not spend his days teaching in the dens of iniquity, but rather took people either to their own homes, to temples, or taught in the outdoors. This is what we should be doing now. This appears to me to be evangelicalism run amuck.

Hi Clair...You Said: "Christ did not spend his days teaching in the dens of iniquity, but rather took people either to their own homes, to temples, or taught in the outdoors."That is only your opinion. You cannot definatively prove all the places that Jesus taught. It may appear that way to you in your 21st century Westernized mind, but I submit to you that Palestine 2000 years ago in many ways was different than we know it today. Even a well could have been a "den of iniquity" where ladies of ill repute met their customers. I don't think folks didn't had Sports Bars and Discos to go to back then. So, they probably often entertained at home. Also, EVERYTHING that Jesus did is not recorded for us.25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21:25Clutch

Jesus definitely wasn't shy about spending time around sinners, but is there any evidence that He intentionally entered places full of scantily clad women in order to teach the Word? Is there any evidence that He commanded His disciples to do so (i.e. deliberately hold a Bible study or something similar in such a place; the issue isn't whether it's wrong to set foot in a Hooters to distribute tracts and the like, but rather whether we should intentionally schedule our meetings there)?A Bible study in a bar would be one thing, in Hooters rather seems like another (though, regretably, the standard of dress in many bars isn't much different). To take this to the logical extent, would it be acceptable to schedule a Bible study in a porn shop or strip club?Personally I would have great difficulties of conscience even setting foot in such an establishment. If it was the only way I could reach certain I people, then so be it (would probably be better to send some Sisters to do the evangelism, though). If there's no pressing need, however, and I can reach these people just as easily on the streets, at events, or even (if necessary) in less-lasvicious bars, why would I bother with a place like Hooters?If it's pharisaical to want to avoid situations that inordinately expose me to immodestly dressed women (except where truly necessary, and if so I will obey), then I suppose I'm a pharisee. It was the hypocritical pharisees that raised Christ's ire, the more honest ones (i.e. Nicodemus) merely received the truth with admonition for being blind to it so long.

Hi Keith,We're certainly all not called to do the same things. We all have our part in the body of Christ. But, there are those who are called to go to extreme places and do some unorthodox things.Just because God didn't put it on MY agenda, doesn't mean He hasn't anointed someone else to go there.12 ¶ For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.14 For the body is not one member, but many.15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.27 ¶ Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.I Cor. 12:12-31We should be blessing our brothers and sisters in Christ who are called to minister by different means than we are familiar with. Like wise, we bless you and the part of the body that God equipt you to be.As much as I appreciate the messages of the old time preachers featured on SI. You know, Ron Bailey and them 8-). The thought has occurred to me that; if the heritage of truth these wonderfully gifted men of the faith, have passed on to us is the complete picture. Then, we should be living in the millenium NOW.You just be who God's called you to be my brother.Clutch

I certainly do not see anything wrong with evangelizing and being among sinners for a brief time. I think even out on the streets, going into any downtown, ect... would give you ample access to the unchurched and the needy. This is not my argument at all.I think with the majority of christian men who are in bondage (or really struggling here) to lust, sexual temptation and porn, that men have no business at a Hooters. I agree that women may have an advantage here and could possibly minister to the girls who work there.My husband is one who has struggled in the past with the stronghold of lust and pornography. He is finally free, but now knows that Hooters- and even the thought of Hooters is out of the question for him- as it should be for many men who still struggle everyday.Myself, I can identify with the average Hooter girl. This is the type of background I am familiar with. Looks and sex appeal was all I lived for even when I was a professing Christian. This kept me in bondage for years- and this bondage kept me from a real and true surrender of my life to Christ. I can see myself wanting to minister to girls like this- and there are many opportunites to do this. I don't have to go inside and hold a meeting at a Hooters to do this.I think when it comes to "rights", we need to think of others and will it cause them to fall. Yes, we may have the right or the freedom to enter a hooters to witness to somebody- but is it beneficial to everyone involved? Lawful- maybe yes (for certain people)- but beneficial?There are soooo many other areas where there are unchurched people, people who really need Christ- why, out of all places does someone pick the inside of a Hooters bar? Maybe people are trying to see how much they can get a way with. They are trying to push the envelope.Eating at a sinners house once or twice to talk about he gospel is one thing- holding a continuous bible study at a bar that promotes lust and sex appeal with men who are not always truly Christ-like yet - is another. Talking to and ministering to a prostitute outside or one on one (as Jesus did) is not the same as entering a brothel and holding regular meetings there. I cannot see the disciples holding regular meetings at a brothel or a bathhouse.This goes so much deeper than "is it ok or not"? I have to really wonder if these men are really thinking about what is is the best interest of their brothers in Christ. or is it just about their "right" to do so.My 14 yr old daughter is not prudish in any way either, yet i feel for her and hear her heart when we pass by our newly opened Hooters close by. She knows the pitfalls and dangers of the promotion of women's bodies. The dnagers to men as well as women. When she saw this thread, she just replied "I don't see what there is to talk about. It's wrong. Should they hold a bible study (with men included)at the Playboy mansion every week?" What dangerous waters we are putting ourselves into. I can think of a million other places that need to be evangelized where there are hurting and needy people- why inside Hooters (week after week, nonetheless).As far as my husband goes, he knows plenty of men with the same problem that he has had and he can't imagine that it is his perogative or even safe to go into a Hooters week after week and try to minister to the people. I am sure there are men out there who do not struggle at all with lust :roll: , so if they feel that they can hold all of their thoughts in captivity to Christ and keep their eyes to themselves- then be my guest.

Here is a link to an article about it: http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/040814/meet.shtml

moreofhim,I can definitely say that what you wrote was truly inspired by the Spirit of God. As I read what you wrote, I could say nothing but amen and amen. For those of you who would defend a continuous bible study week after week in a bar where cleavage and tight shorts are prevelant I would challenge you with this. Imagine for a moment The Lord Jesus walking into Hooters every Wednesday night and his disciples following him because they want to be where He is and hear God's Word. For some reason I don't think that most of the men would not be distracted with the fight that is in front of them and resisting the temptation of lust. To think that God almighty would bring His church into a place where they would be tempted is to have an utterly false view of God and I can only picture Christ coming into that bible study and overturning those tables full of "wings and salad". Why? Because when God entered a house in His earthly ministry it was for the point of ministry and the possibility of repentance and to change the lives of those he would affect in that house. That house would then be used for the glory and honor of God in holiness of living and the ministry. Please try to convince us of the possibility of Hooters and it's method of operation being used for that purpose, while still holding onto it's abased practices of service to the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh. The 2 are in complete contradiction to each other. Only in these last days does it seem possible that there would be those in "the church" who would condone such practice as an act of God. There is in that case such a lack of both reverence for the holiness of God, and his call for His people to come out from among them avoiding the appearance of evil and not having fellowhsip with the unfruitful works of darkness. Whether any liberal reader is offended by my comments at this point I do not care. I know of no instance where the early apostles established a church, home fellowship, or bible study (which are one in the same) in an establishment where Satan was to be continually honored throughout the week. God save us from the compromise of these last days and the apathy which comes so subtly as it's coworker.

Hey Bub,You Said: "I know of no instance where the early apostles established a church, home fellowship, or bible study (which are one in the same) in an establishment where Satan was to be continually honored throughout the week." This might be one.Rev.212 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.Clutch

Some of you are certainly right in thinking that we've fallen a long way from the standard that Jesus set. He would have gone anywhere to seek and save the lost. In fact, He did. Can you imagine the choice He made to leave the absolute purity of heaven and the holy presence of the Father in order to enter fully into a filthy, sinful, selfish, greedy, fallen world? A world - I might add - full of fleshly lust and temptation. He opened the door and marched right in. And not just for a one-night Bible study. He did it for us ... to seek and save the lost. What an amazing example! An example we are called to follow. In John 20:21, Jesus said, "As the Father has sent Me, I also send you." Now, I don't know if this particular Bible study in Hooters is done in a wise and loving manner, or according to pure motives. But the response of some of you is based on a principle that it would be wrong for us, as Christians, to enter such an extremely sinful world in order to reach the lost. I'm sure glad Jesus didn't feel that way about us.

Clutch,When you say this "might" be one, I appreciate your humility in recognizing that it might not be in context to the present discussion. In response, The letter refers to the persecution that was taking place in Pergomas which even cost one believer who was named here, Antipas, his life. Do not err in thinking the church was established where believers would be surrounded by temptation during a bible study or church service. The persecution was great amongst them to the point of them suffering bodily harm, even death, and yet they had not denied the name of their Savior under such great terror and organized assaults by Satan himself against them, and the Lord commends them for this.

HakkaMin,Jesus conducted his ongoing studies and discussions with his disciples either in the temple, the synagogues throughout Israel, or in the open air. I can imagine the response of some of the great men of God down the centuries and their response to this issue. God has used great men of God to reach millions of people down through the centuries but I dare not name one who established a bible study or church in a place where one moment men are looking at the word of God and the next are ordering their food trying to resist the temptation of looking down the shirt of a flauntingly dressed young woman. I can assure you that Jesus knows our condition and what we're made of all too well to lead us into temptation. This is a work of man and the end never justifies the means. It sends a mixed message to unbelievers who are not a part of the bible study enjoying their lustful pleasures and justifying their visit to the bar by seeing that God approves of such an atmosphere to conduct a continual bible study week by week. I would encourage you to listen to "10 shekels and a Shirt" by Paris Reidhead and "The Revival Hymn" for further instructions. :-D

Speaking for myself, I know that I'd have a hard time going to Hooters for a Bible study. But I can't bring myself to judge the guys who are. I think brother (sister?)HakkaMin has a great point: Christ went to Earth. Now THAT was nasty! And yeah, He broke my Sabbath rules. What would I say to someone who was having a Bible study at Hooters? "Bro, I'll be in prayer for you. And thanks for not inviting me."

One thing is quite clear in this situation- if the person holding the so-called bible study were full enough of the Holy Ghost to handle the environment - which in itself would be a fulness that I cannot personally imagine myself being at any time soon- the repulsion of the Holy Spirit inside the person would come forth thunderously against such wickedness. The Spirit of God would be screaming out inside the person- COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE that you be not partakers of her sins and be not partakers of her plagues. Spare me the pretense of going into such a place to minister with a bible study. That is the talk of deception and could encourage a weak believer to do such a thing and cast a stumbling block before them to their destruction. Did not the Lord also tell us not to cast our pearls before swine? To lay aside every weight and the sin that does so easily beset us? The famous last words of most backslidden believers is, "I can handle this." You can't handle sin! This is foolishness. This is the type of deception that leads whole crowds of Christians into extreme sin. This type of stuff does not need to be debated- it needs to be rebuked.

t just crossed my mind that there may be many people on this site in other countries that don't know what Hooters is. Hooters is a bar /grill type restaurant where the waitresses where very little clothing and what they do where is to enhance there bodies.Over on this side of the water, a hooter is a large nose. :-D However, on the serious side. I think I would like to know what kind of bible studies they are having. If I were invited into a strip joint and given the opportunity of opening the scriptures I would take it. I have preached in a night club before now. If they are setting up a Hooters Christian Fellowship it is a different matter.I am reminded of CT Studd's little poem.Some want to live within the sound of Church or Chapel bell.I want to have a Rescue Shop within a yard of hell.

If I were invited into a strip joint and given the opportunity of opening the scriptures I would take it.Hi Bro. Ron,I have a great appreciation for all who would desire to share the Gospel on every occasion. In this case I could not accept the invitation unless someone in the building was dying and could not come out. The reason for this is not necessarily my fear of loss of reputation- but of being caught in the very snare of the enemy. For those who are not tempted with alcohol and are perhaps eunuchs- this type of environment may have little or no effect on them. But for the vast majority of Christians it would be a risk to their own peril taken unnecessarily when there are vast numbers of nursing homes, correctional centers, orphanages, and the like for which we can practice pure religion. In this case we are dealing with a Christian youth group. God Bless,-Robert

I have a great appreciation for all who would desire to share the Gospel on every occasion. In this case I could not accept the invitation unless someone in the building was dying and could not come out.I have often said I would preach with the devil at my elbow. I still feel the same. With patterns of dress as they are in our day, even out in the street we have to learn to preach looking into the eyes of the hearers and nowhere else.

Hey remember, Ron said if he was INVITED in to share, big difference than choosing just to go in.God is surely able to equip us and sustain us in any enviroment If he has called us to go inAlso i dont think we are called to lve by "What ifs" ,what if a weaker brother sees me go in etc.Certainly we are responsible and should care for the weaker one.For instance i would not invite a new believer who was an ex alcoholic over for lunch and them ply him with beer.But we are not resposible for what ifs.just my thoughts :-)

Since this thread started I have had a literal arsenol of Scriptures rise up in me against such a practice. First of all let me say that the Spirit of God and the word of God always agree. God is not going to send us into a place by His Spirit that His word is telling us to flee from. For example, Paul told the young man Timothy to FLEE youthful lusts and fornication. That means to turn and run. Why? Because sexual sin is not to be messed with. it is a sin that will destroy you in a way none other will. You could end up sinning against your own body and defiling the very Temple of God- to whom God said He would destroy them. Would anyone risk subjecting themselves to a temptation that could conceive and join Christ unto an harlot? God Forbid! One need look no further than David to see what can happen to even the most spiritual people when they subject themselves to such temptation. The Spiritual warfare that would be going on would be enormous. When you THINK you stand- take heed lest you fall. Blessed is the man that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Don't fall prey to the enemy! To me this is not a matter of debating or finding a loophole in God's word to get in the doors of such a place. My advise is to those who want VICTORY over sin and are seriously concerned about their own well being. Don't do it! Cast down ANY imagination that tells you to go into the den of the enemy. Bring every one of those thoughts under obedience to Christ. Abstain from all appearance of such evil. The light of the body is the eye and you need to guard your heart with ALL diligence. Whatever you do- I beg you- NEVER go in to such a place thinking you can minister.

I am in agreement with Robert- and so is my husband. I have talked to my husband about his thoughts on this thread. Keep in mind that we are not what is considered legalistic or conservative by outward appearances. I mean he likes to wear shorts to church (when we attend one :-) ) and we are not into who should a or should not wear makeup, skirts, bathingsuits, etc...He just does not understand how any Christian man could go into a Hooters, especially week after week, and not be walking into a den of temptation. When God has layed certain standards on your heart- going into a place like this slowly weakens these standards bit by bit.And like someone mentioned, Jesus went into homes to eat with sinners in expectation that the whole place would turn into a place for the glory of God. Hooters is still going to be Hooters. It will still be selling sexual temptation. And the article states that one manager has become a christian, and one of the waitresses. Ok, will the manager and waitress continue to work there and promote that environment? This doesn't make any sense. If the goal was to get people converted- then if they are really truly converted- they would be fleeing the place- and you know that Hooters would not allow that to be happening. They would not want a bible study going on there that CONVICTS people so that they might leave.That is the point here all together. If you really want to help people and get them to surrender their lives to Christ- they must be CONVICTED of sin in the first place. How do you convict them when you are in a place that promotes sin (sin that keeps many people in bondage)?

I think at the end of the day it all boils down to obedience to God. Myself, I would question any prompting to enter a place like this, knowing that I have had serious lust problems in the past. I have only ever known one man who truly didn't have a problem with lust, and the basis of his immunity was being molested at a young age.The question that needs to be answered is, "Am I trying to justify my yearning to oggle women, by claiming to obey God's great commision command?" I work in secular employment, in an industry riddled with disrespect for women. The abnomitions Paul gave in 1 Cor 10, are incredibly obvious, when around people who aren't trying to feign piety. A "christian" will sneak a look at a woman's cleavage, and then deny it upon accusation, due to fear of man vs fear of God issues (the same ones that lead people to miss private prayer time, but never the prayer meeting). They hide behind statements like "Jesus meant to 'yearn longingly' when He said 'look lustfully'. I didn't yearn. You can't prove it. Stop 'heaping condemnation' on me."The "sinner" say, "Will you take a look at that!!!", leaving you feeling embarress for him, her and God, not knowing where to look. This is undoubtably admitting that the "food is sacrificed to idols". Tell me that the bulk of the people who are their aren't their for the "oggling". Why aren't we worried about what we communicate by entering a place like this?Maybe there is a place for this kind of evangelism. Maybe this is something for those who are truly "liberated" from their lusts. I don't know how this could equate with Jesus and Paul's direst warning's regarding fleeing from lust.In context with the degree that God has been challenging me with Edenic issues of life (ie. Life = Simplicity = Grace vs Death = Complexity = Law) this seems to complex to be something God would ask. Then again, He did ask Elijah to feed on roadkill provided by unclean ravens, only to lead him to a gentile home for provision after the forementioned food supply ran out.All I can say is, this year has been full of a dismantling of all that I held as sacred, in favour of God's will. I've been challenged by sermons that included "swear words" to expose believers to fear of hearing them in the world. Challenged by sermons that attempted to lead me from Godly principles such as tithing, and committed fellowship.What's "christianity" coming to, I hear repeatedly asked? A massive shaking of "foundations". Is this issue going to far? My heart tells me "Yes".

Greg sayshmmm I would say to your quote of ct studd 1 yard from hell doesnt mean in it I would subscribe to stay outside.Neither do I mean 'in it'. But Hooters is not hell, it part of earth. The only time earth experienced 'hell' was in the person of Christ at Calvary. Hooters is not hell, it is enemy territory. I have no doubt that if the manager and one of his workers have really responded to God, they are on their way out. I think heathen temples are much more dangerous places in terms of 'enemy territory' but if given the opportunity I would take it to preach Christ. I would get folk to hold me up whilst inside and I would hold myself responsible to debrief to those who could pray for such things.My philosophy is starting from a different place. I believe the whole earth is full of the glory of the LORD. I believe he owns the site where Hooters functions. I believe I am called to go into all the world to preach the gospel. The ship will be much safer if it stays in the harbour; but ships weren't designed for harbours. The foul happenings at Hooters are taking place on land which is God's. Yes, I would still go.However, I would not encourage others to do the same unless they had the same conviction and the same friends who would cover me in the venture.

LUKE 14: [21] Then the Master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.[23] And the Lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.Hmmmmmmm .... perhaps if we were ALL busy in the streets, lanes, highways and hedges, none of us would have to even concider Hooters ....'0)

Rahman wrote:Hmmmmmmm .... perhaps if we were ALL busy in the streets, lanes, highways and hedges, none of us would have to even concider Hooters ....'0)Bravo Rahman...Bravo 8-)

Greetings --I am happy that there are so many contributing to this thread who recognize the intrinsic error in adopting Hooters as a place for formal Bible study.We have so many differing points of view in the church today over such matters. Often, these kinds of things are defended on the basis of "one's calling." However, there is one calling common to every Christian: the call to be holy and the call to be sanctified and set apart.There are some things that are not proper or appropriate in any context, and cannot be defended because they violate spiritual universals. We don't buy drugs to witness to addicts in crack-houses, we don't patronize strip clubs to win the lust-addicted or those women who feed such bondage, and we don't become criminals to win those in prison. Simple logic tells us that there are boundaries to Paul's words, "I have become all things to all men that by all means I might win some."Having a Bible study at Hooter violates MANY Scriptural absolutes.1.) Paul said to "FLEE lust." Is having a Bible study at Hooters in line with this?2.) Jesus said adultery was a sin, and Paul said adulterers will not inherit the Kingdom. Remember, according to Jesus, all you have to do is "lust in your heart" to become an adulterer. And may I say this -- if any man tries to tell me he can spend time in Hooters without lusting, he is a either a liar or hopelessly dilluted.3.) Paul said, "Have NOTHING to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them." Lust is a fruitless deed of darkness, as well as drunkenness...two things Hooters has built its finantial base on.4.) It is a matter of witness...claim any justification you wish -- you are still funding, patronizing, and promoting sin, either tacitly (by your presence) or directly (by your dollars).5.) You destroy unbelievers by making them think God approves of their own presence there. "If the church can come here and it's OK, why can't I?" Paul says that when we cause people to stumble this way, we have rejected love. He says that even if we had the freedom to go to Hooters (which we don't), that we destroy those who don't understand by our practice of freedom. As has already been said, Jesus did visit with sinners. Others correctly stated that he did not go into den's of iniquity to do it. One response was, "We don't know that...the Bible doesn't tell us everything Jesus did."For one thing, this is an argument made from silence, and it's a real violation of the Scriptures. You are assuming something from what IS NOT stated, rather than from WHAT IS. Not a good way to determine truth. The only time we ever see Jesus in a situation (voluntarily) in which it might be argued that sin was being practiced among His hearers is at the wedding supper in Cana. Here it was said, "after the guests have had too much to drink." But even in this instance, such actions don't carry the same connotation as being at Hooters. The wedding supper was a righteous event in which some people might have been doing something ungodly. Hooters, to the contrary, is a sinful environment in which people have come for the sole purpose of descending into sin.Thus, to use Christ's association with sinners as a justification for this matter is a horribly mislead conclusion!!!Beware -- the last days will be marked by terrible deception. Brothers and sisters, "keep your hearts and minds" pure before God.Blessings,Jason

Hi all,I like the direction this discussion is going since after the contribution of philologos, even though there are still different opinions as to whether the bible study at Hooters is appropriate.First, we have moved away from the instinctive legalistic reactions--"That's a filthy place, why would any Christian go there?"--but as philologos pointed out, sometimes God sends his people to dangerous enemy's territory to fight the battle. Second, the focus is now (rightfully, I think) focussed on the temptations involved. KeithLaMoche was right when he said that this scenario is different from that of a bar. I do think the temptation for men is much stronger in this case than a pub or a bar. And the lure of sexual provocation is one of the most prominent problem today. So even for those who felt that it is possible to run a bible study at Hooters, they must be warned of the dangers involved, lest they end up shaming the name of the Lord. Which brings me to the third point--Third, the prayer of the community of faith is absolutely necessary for any venture into treacherous waters such as these, as philologos suggested. I do not know anyone from Single Focus Atlanta who runs this program, although judging from their other (pretty normal) evangelistic outreach programs, they seem to be genuine Christians with a fervour to spread the gospel, perhaps they have a special calling from God? I can't really say for sure, I don't know how it all started. But my prayers are out there for them, whether I approve of their actions or not, praying that in whatever they do, God will be protecting them.I am not saying that we all have to follow their example, but I think we should at least be open to the possibility that God might do this--Is there really any place where Christ will not go to seek the lost? That being said, I do think it is legitimate to ask whether those people did this to give themselves an excuse to sin, or to ask whether this way is more distracting than effective, or to ask whether this way exposes Christians to too much temptation.Do I sound self-contradictory? On one hand, I want to insist that our sovereign Lord has the right to open the door of the gospel, quite contrary to our expectations and concepts of "holiness", to minister to people anywhere--including casinos and brothels. On the other hand, we must be deeply aware of human fraities and weaknesses when such circumstances arise; being too self-confident of our self-control is extremely risky business. So I don't want to give an absolute NO, but my YES is nonetheless a cautious one--be sure the support of the community of faith is behind you in this spiritual warfare.

Rahman wrote:Hmmmmmmm .... perhaps if we were ALL busy in the streets, lanes, highways and hedges, none of us would have to even concider Hooters ....'0)Touche', Rahman. :lol:

sermonindex wrote:This is of serious concern over the validity of this evangelism venture.True, it certainly is a venture that skirts the line of foolishness more than the one of faith. :-(

Yes there is no way you could continually go into a place like that and not be effected even if you are full of the Holy Ghost. Perhaps to go in there a few times and get the people intrested to go to another building perhaps a church is a more wise move.My understanding is that Jesus visits every time they open. This is a very fragile concept of holiness; have you not considered that He who is in us is mightier than he that is in Hooters. However, this was my meaning too. I spoke of an 'opportunity' not the forming of a Hooters Christian Fellowship.wow people that is so important chanin raises the issue that really shows the possible fruit of this bible study. Are they new creatures in Christ? have they come from darkness to light? They would be fleeing from that place of immorality.. it just doesn't make sense for them to comfortably work there as they used to be.Were you made a new creature the first time you heard the gospel? I know I wasn't. Did you pass from darkness to light the first time you heard? I know I didn't. The light has to shine into darkness and is well able to. We won't need to say 'come out here if you want the light to shine on you'. I think the best antidote to darkness is light, rather than to cage the darkness. You are the light of the world.I hope my credentials on this site are sufficient for all to understand that I am not condoning Hooters or sin in any form. I am not suggesting that the light of God can be cherished in the darkness. Heathen idolatry is much worse, in my understanding, a far greater offence to God. But I would be willing to go into heathen darkness to preach the gospel; I think we all would. I will not remove my shoes in a heathen temple but if they allow me in I would preach to them. I will not 'partake' of Hooters but if they would allow me in I would preach to them.Moody once said, 'we are to be the salt of the world'. (not the church. my comment) He went on to say 'no one ever preserved fish by putting the fish into one barrel and the salt into another'. Going into 'all the world' surely includes Hooters.

I remember going into clubs and just praying in tongues for a couple of hours, and the fruit of that was amazing. In both those clubs they closed down after a couple of months. There were probably others involved in praying, but it certainly showed me what could happen if I got out there.

sermonindex wrote:So would you and others say that for Christians to be seen walking in Hooters (or a rave or any other sensual sinful place) is an ok thing? even if its for strictly evangelistic purposes?To take the line of how it was explained to me, it is okay to go if: 1) The leadership within the church know, it is more the issue of bringing it into the ligtht, that my covering knows what I am doing. So if anyone does see that I am in a questionable place, someone in a plac spiritual authourity knows. Also helpful if they receive any checks. The also now the sheep, and they know that if a person has a problem with porno, going to hooters to evangelise may not be the best thing.2) If it was area where I knew my way around. Sounds a bit odd, but its like you can handle yourself without feeling that you are fighting a huge battle. Maybe another way to put it, The battle inside you has been won already. I came out of the club scene, I got saved out of that. Now I could walk in there and feel absolutley nothing because, Jesus walked me out of there.Zeke

hmm brother Ron, I think some of your ideas are very intresting on spiritual authority perhaps that would make an good edifying thread on spiritual authority particularly on your concept that the whole world is the Lords already, I kinda see things in abit different light but I am very open to your scriptural reasoning on that matter.Greg, you are a gent. Are you sure you're not English. Do I interpret 'some of your ideas are very interesting' to mean 'he's a lulu'?;-)Perspectives are interesting things. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. (Isa 6:3 KJV) When Isaiah heard the seraphim saying this the whole earth was a mess! But on another level, from the heavenly perspective, the whole earth is full of God's glory. Always was, always will be. Elisha's servant discovered that we are not nearly so lonely as we sometimes feel.I believe Matt 28:19,20 is a great commission rather than a specific command. These are our marching orders; specific battle plans will be given as necessary. In that sense I would regard Hooters as a territory and believe that my commission is to include it in my gaze. I would need a specific word to go, but as Paul prayed for 'open doors' so do I. When one opens I go through it. My position on Hooters is that I see it as included in the commission. There are no closed countries and no 'no-go' areas for the gospel. I think there is also a valid concept of pre-evangelism. Paget Wilkes was a very able man and quickly picked up the Japenese language. He opened up a mission in Kobe, the the red light district of town. Thousands came to listen. On one occasion a visitor was to preach and Paget W was to interpret. The visitor began.. when God brought the people of Israel out of Egypt... Paget stopped him. He said 'it will take me half and hour to explain who the people of Israel are; another half hour to explain where Egypt is and another to explain why God whanted to bring them out of Israel... you're going to have to start somewhere else.In pre-evangelism we often have to start 'somewhere else' and the 'somewhere else' is usually where they are! This is what Philip did with the eunoch; this what Paul did in Athens. I would start where I could but I would want to move on to the fact of God, the love of God, the loss of God(sin), the hope of God, and would fill in the details as appropriate. Bible study can be a very effective means of pre-evangelism. I can't think of a single place I wouldn't be prepared to go to talk about God.I think in your own experience your first calling on the Lord was not your first hearing of Him. How can they call unless they hear, how can they hear unless someone preaches, how can they preach unless they are sent... I would think the Hooters' staff are very much at the beginning to hear stage. If they genuinely respond they will not remain in their darkness.I am not advocating this as a bright idea for young Christians; I am not suggesting that anyone starts a 'ministry to Hooters'. I am just saying if the door opens it may be because God has opened it, and we ought not to refuse to enter because we are afraid of what might happen to us in there.:-?

sermonindex wrote:WOW brother could you share more details of that experience and how you were led to do that? Before I committed my life to the Lord I was running so hard from him, till he got me, the blood hound of heaven. I used to stand in the clubs looking at all the people, lost, and you know the worst part, they didn't know that they were lost. I think more than anything it was that feeling, they know the truth, they know about Jesus, they know what he did at the cross, but it meant nothing to them at all. They just carried on, for tommorrow we die! The reality of their sin, and the saviours great cost meant nothing.:cry: My heart aches thinking about it now. Thats what probably made me just pray in tongues, and also it it was so loud that it was the only thing I could do that didn't require to much thought. The one club was one of the usual mixes of music 80's, bit of rock, some dance music and the people were mostly lager heads. It changed its name twice and just died.The other was a hard music club which specialised in the top end of house, alternate, industrial etc. The one time I went in there, the music so loud that you couldn't talk to anyone, so all you could do was pray. I think I sat there for about three hours. A couple of months later, they changed its name, did renovations to improve the club, but the people left, the appeal had gone. At the risk of sounding like a spiritual mapper dude, the spiritual atmosphere around those places changed. I must have said something in my communion with God for his righteous government to be established. I think that is the nature of our warfare, the proclamation of the Christ into the atmosphere, it is that thing that changes lives, towns, cities, clubs.

Beloved, let us always use caution in returning any where near the mud hole from whence we were washed or to the vomit that stands as the remains of our former life. Paul said also that he got under his body and brought it into subjection lest at any time he should become adokimos (rejected, reprobate,etc.). That tells me that he knew his limitations. Sounds a bit odd, but its like you can handle yourself without feeling that you are fighting a huge battle.Be careful. Sometimes we could charge the gates of hell with a water pistol we have so much zeal- but when we are weak and tired we are vulnerable. This is mortal combat. The enemy wants to destroy us! He wants to get us feeling like we can handle something that we can't- and in that false security- he leaps on us with both feet. Make no mistake about it, the enemy has a strategy to destroy us. You may go in to a club a hundred times and go in and not come out on the 101st. The enemy knows that time is on his side. He knows that it is only a matter of time until you 'fall' in that place. He may sow a tiny seed every other week until the day comes when you feel a strange attraction to that place that you did not feel a year ago. Soon you struggle in the night to keep your mind under control. He has you right where he wants you. He has destroyed wiser people than we- he is a master at this. He has seen people like you and I before. He knows how to snare us in our own pride and vanity. I have never been into "H" restraunts- but if you were to ever see me go in know of assurity I am not in my right mind. So if you can begin to intercede for me in the Holy Ghost- prefferably with groanings that cannot be uttered-- because I am in a serious mess. Don't think for a moment- "he's probably going into that club to witness"- no- I have succumbed to temptation. Please pray!!There are times as an act of uncommon valor people have been known to risk their lives to save others. In this case we are not talking about our physical well being- we are talking about placing our spirituality in jeopardy. That, to me, exceeds the definition of martyr (martros?). And I know some may say that we ought to serve God even if we would go to hell at the end and all that... but this in reality takes Ten Shekels and a Shirt to a whole other level. What good am I to the kingdom of God if the enemy takes me out? What if I fell in the faith and all those who I could have been ministered to were lost also. God forbid! God forbid!

I'll throw this in for thoughtJesus came He embodied the kingdom of God.Jesus brought heaven like conditions to earth through his ministry.people in the kingdom of hell experienced the kingdom of heaven through Jesus being the kingdom of GodHealings deliverence provision, etc although heavenly did not bring folk into the kingdom of God...not until the Spirit came at pentecost.we can be affected touched outwardly by being in this world.We can experience God's love but still not enter into that rest,where the kingdom of God resides. :-) As we are talking about kingdoms i thought this would add to the flow :-o

lu·lu ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ll)n. SlangA remarkable person, object, or idea.Your dictionary is a 'gent' too. Over here 'lulu' means someone who is 'one sandwich short of the full pic-nic'.I hope this question is not to mundane or simple but are all things under his dominon in the here and now? can we say that hooters for instance is Gods territory or the devils?This is deeper stuff and you will know I am not a Calvinist by instinct. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. (Col 1:15-17 NASB) The Bible teaches that God did not just wind up the universe and leave it ticking but that He continues to sustain it. That means that all life is sustained by Him, even life which is set in its defiance of all that He wishes.Pharoah received the necessary energy to defy God from God; so does Satan. God hardening Pharaoh's heart can be translated God 'strengthened his heart'. Here is a little mystery. The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint. The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house. He heweth him down cedars, and taketh the cypress and the oak, which he strengtheneth for himself among the trees of the forest: he planteth an ash, and the rain doth nourish it. Then shall it be for a man to burn: for he will take thereof, and warm himself; yea, he kindleth it, and baketh bread; yea, he maketh a god, and worshippeth it; he maketh it a graven image, and falleth down thereto. (Isa 44:12-15 KJV)It is key feature of Israel, in the land, that their rainfall was personally supervised by God. Why would He nourish a tree which had been earmarked for an idol? Sometimes He does not prevent our rebellion but gives us the strength to do what we wanted all along.I think another factor is that we are often 2 dimensional in our view of events. God causes all things to work to together for those who love God, who are called according to His purpose. We see some 'advance' of the enemy and conclude that it has slipped out of God's control and is now enemy territory. But God 'works all things' with no exclusions.I am hesitant to explain this further as I don't want to establish a doctrine. I just know, in my spirit, that nothing is ultimately independent; only God is self sufficient. Everything else is energised by God; in Him all things cohere. Even the sex industry with all its damage is in someway only possible because God has not withheld His sustaining hand.Satan may draw a circle around the world and say 'it is mine'. God draws a larger circle which encloses that circle and Satan himself and says 'it is mine'.

I think I'm most in agreement with Philologos here. Hooters and such places are despicable and to be avoided in general (and certainly not to be used as a place of fellowship), but we mustn't think certain places are off-limits for the Gospel.When it comes down to it, if they would allow preachers in there, someone should preach (even if from outside the building) as hard as is Biblical against sexual sin, or whatever the Lord tells them to preach. The situation would resolve itself shortly: either they would kick you out in 30 seconds or conviction would come.I attend the University of Georgia, and around campus (or downtown, particularly downtown) there's a plentiful supply of very immodestly dressed women. Typically I don't even notice that when I'm preaching, it's just so common and the women are often not even very attractive to me (perhaps because they resemble animals more than humans in their behavior, they'd actually be far more attractive to me if they dressed modestly and acted feminine and godly). Having glanced at the picture in the news article linked to in the first post of this thread, I can say that the women in Hooters are not much (if any) less modest than a fairly large amount of the women one sees around here if he preaches downtown at night. Thankfully God's protected me from those temptations.Nonetheless, I can't imagine ever needing to preach in a Hooters, there's such a torrent of people on the streets and on campus, and the only time I can think of that the management of a place like Hooters would let me preach in them would be a time of general revival (during which the establishment would likely be closed or converted to something wholesome).But as to the original question of this thread, whether this so-called Bible study in Hooters is a good idea? Give me a break. If you were preaching the Biblical Law and Gospel in essentially any secular establishment, they'd kick you out in under 5 minutes and probably call the cops if you persisted. If they're tolerating you, something's wrong with you, or (and this would be ok) God's restraining them.

But as to the original question of this thread, whether this so-called Bible study in Hooters is a good idea? Give me a break. If you were preaching the Biblical Law and Gospel in essentially any secular establishment, they'd kick you out in under 5 minutes and probably call the cops if you persisted. If they're tolerating you, something's wrong with you, or (and this would be ok) God's restraining them.Amen!

But as to the original question of this thread, whether this so-called Bible study in Hooters is a good idea? Give me a break. If you were preaching the Biblical Law and Gospel in essentially any secular establishment, they'd kick you out in under 5 minutes and probably call the cops if you persisted. If they're tolerating you, something's wrong with you, or (and this would be ok) God's restraining them.Amen and Amen!At this point I refer back to one of my replies about listening to "10 Shekels and a Shirt" and "Revival Hymn" for further instructions. I have no idea who this group is, conducting church at Hooters. But I know that if true teaching of the Word of God is taking place then it goes against all that Hooters stands for. Jesus came not to bring peace but to bring a sword. The Holy Spirit is CONVICTING the world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment when Christ is being honored. I do not disagree with the Evangelism of such a place, but it better be in the pretense and motivation of the Holy Spirit to call people away from such a lifestyle and flee from the wrath to come. My biggest fear is that people are being offered a humanistic gospel in such a way that has not led them to understand that a place like Hooters is an abomination to the Lord. If one of the Hooters girls got saved then according to God's word she would have to repent of what she is promoting by wearing enticing clothes. She could no longer work there or approve of those who do. 1 Peter 3:3-4 "Whose adorning (women) let it not be that of outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price."

"I have not softened down the Bible to suit the carnal tastes of men. I have said "damn" where God said "damn," I have not sweetened it into "condemn."-- "Keep clear of Lucifer's matches. You have got enough mischief in your heart without going where you will get more. If anybody feel that he is so very gracious and good that he can safely enter into temptation, I am sure that he is laboring under a very great mistake. I would say to him, "Brother, there is devil enough in you without you sending out invitation cards to seven more. Go to him who casts out devils."-- "Put your finger on any prosperous page in the church's history, and I will find a little marginal note reading thus: "In this age men could readily see where the church began and where the world ended." Never were there good times when the church and the world were joined in marriage. The more the church is different from the world in her acts and in her maxims, the more true is her testimony of Christ, and the more potent is her witness against sin." --Quotes by Charles Spurgeon--

But as to the original question of this thread, whether this so-called Bible study in Hooters is a good idea? Give me a break. If you were preaching the Biblical Law and Gospel in essentially any secular establishment, they'd kick you out in under 5 minutes and probably call the cops if you persisted. If they're tolerating you, something's wrong with you, or (and this would be ok) God's restraining them.There's at least one more option here. Revival might be getting ready to break out. You know ... that thing that we are praying in faith for. Where God is actually powerful enough to move on mens' and womens' hearts - no matter how pagan - and grace them with a thirst to know more about Him and His ways.If they are "tolerating" us and our message in such sinful places - then, yes, it's possible there's a problem with our gospel message. It's also possible that God is honestly opening hearts. Isn't that what we're looking for? Isn't that what we're praying for? In faith? (Which means it CAN happen!) Let's at least include this as a possible option, then, for when pagans begin to "tolerate" the gospel.

Just an idea. Why don't all of us at Sermon Index start to pray for this Bible Study at Hooters? That God would move mightily on the hearts of the lost there in that place. That He would give them thirst for Himself, conviction of sin, revelation of the truth, and faith to believe. I'm pretty sure this would be pleasing to our Father."Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice." (Philippians 1:15-18)

Now this is an excellent idea. Not only that, but its Scriptural as well. If they're holding Bible studies at Hooters, they need all the prayers they can get.Ed

sermonindex wrote:

We did devestation to the business of that coffee house :P if we went everynight back then it would have been out of business.Greetings --This really struck me, because I think Greg is in Canada.I live in Birmingham, AL -- the "Bible Belt" -- and even here, if you were to disrupt business with the Gospel, you would be made to leave.So much for the "freedom of speech" and "the free exercise of religion" I guess. As it turns out, despite the "Bill of Rights" I have been to some places in Eastern Europe in which I felt more "free" than I do in the United States.(I know this is a little off-topic, but I didn't think it was worth starting a whole new thread over.)Blessings,Jason

Two mites from the rambling fool...Have read through all the responses, and kudos for, in the words of Alan Redpath, 'practicing that all too rare, but precious Christian grace of disagreeing agreeably' Think it would serve well that this article be revisited again:http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/religion/040814/meet.shtml" has chosen to meet at a Hooters restaurant every week for the past four years. "We've seen a few of the waitresses become Christians. One of the former managers here became a Christian. So it's worked. The whole object, in reality, is that this is just to get inside the door," said Lamborn"Isn't this pragmatism?"Despite Hooters' recent attempts to reposition itself as more family friendly, it has been a frequent subject of protests." If this doesn't sound just a bit all to familiar...Let's try it this way;"Despite the churches' recent attempts to reposition itself as more 'sinner' friendly, it has been.....""Come, let us all compromise together"...please.If Hooters wants to be more family friendly they would have to shut down, change their name and their hiring practices.Never in my life did I foresee myself agreeing with this particular group;"Social conservatives say the restaurant corrupts young children and attracts sexual predators, and feminists say it objectifies women. "Everyone thinks it's hypocritical," said Victoria B. Pierce, president of the National Organization for Women's Cobb County chapter." "Why would any church group go there?"" Why indeed, though it has already been pretty well dealt with by all you fine people."It's something Jesus would've done because he looked past what people may think and looked at what people's needs are." Think there is something a bit mischievous in using this and the famous scripture of 'eating with tax collectors and sinners" as a basis for justification.For one thing it was JESUS let us not forget who was doing this, yeah I know His disciples were there, if fact what saith the scriptures?:Mat 9:10 While he was having dinner at Matthew's home, many tax collectors and sinners arrived and began eating with Jesus and his disciples. Mar 2:15 Later he was having dinner at Levi's house. Many tax collectors and sinners were also eating with Jesus and his disciples, for there were many who were following him.Luk 15:1 Now all the tax collectors and sinners kept coming to listen to Jesus. Trying to force these into this context here is a bit much. Some might attempt to get around this by saying, "well, Jesus lives inside of me, so it's just like He's there anyway"No it's not. You and I aren't anywhere close to being that filled with the Spirit, not in these skin suits we aren't nor will we ever be. Besides if my reading of these verses are correct is this not 'them' coming to Him? Probably a small point really, if we stop and think about it, anywhere Jesus went he was dealing with sinners including the Pharisees."If you being evil..."Though I believe Ron had some excellent points and a markedly different point of view, especially on the fact of just Who's earth it is we are milling about, I also recall him stating that he wasn't talking about setting up a "Hooters Christian Fellowship" and also believe his emphasis was on preaching if invited to do so. In this case they have been set up here for 4 years.I don't know who it is we really think we are kidding here.For one thing this is a 'Christian Youth Group'? Not that it makes a huge difference but aren't we talking about ragging hormones to begin with? Greg's pointed remark about setting up shop "IN hell' vs. "next to" is noteworthy.Chanin, thank you sister, you summed it up nicely with:"I am sure there are men out there who do not struggle at all with lust :roll: ,so if they feel that they can hold all of their thoughts in captivity to Christ and keep their eyes to themselves- then be my guest.":roll: Indeed!Something that I would also have to wonder about is what do the wives and girlfriends think of all this?I am with Robert on this one and with the others who pointed out the deception of all this.Strange sense of irony here:"The topic this night is consistent relationships, and Lamborn begins by asking the college-age group, "How does inconsistency negatively affect your relationships with others?" As responses sprinkle in, a blonde in a tight white tank top and orange hot pants quietly scoots up to the table. She joins the discussion for a few minutes then has to scurry back to her boisterous customers inside." How inconsistent can you get?Next weeks topic: "How to flee youthful lusts while sitting still at Hooters"...Should we pray for them? Of course, question though...should I pray for their eye's to be opened or closed? (not trying to be sarcastic)If anything maybe just for conviction, for everybody...

Probably should have done this right from the get go but, has anyone checked out their site?http://www.singlefocusatlanta.org/"Our MissionTo bring life into focus by offering affirmation, encouragement and hope to people in transition.Affirm the value of people and their contribution to others Encourage people needing support by believing in them Offer hope to people struggling Bring life into focus by creating environments where people can explore who they are spiritually, intellectually, socially and relationally Our VisionSingle Focus Atlanta, Inc. is an organization dedicated to reaching people in life transition. We do this by providing environments where people can explore new perspectives in their beliefs, relationships, spirituality and life issues. We meet one on one or in groups in places where people circulate (i.e. restaurants, homes, bars, campuses, apartment complexes, etc.) We believe people are of value as modeled by the life and examples of people like Jesus Christ. Effectiveness occurs when we, as searching people, together discover ways to live a life of Focus and Hope and thereby reach our given potential. Our PhilosophyWhen people meet in groups or one on one...No one is treated as being right or wrong No one will be judged for what they do or say All can participate as they are Everyone will be treated with Dignity, Honor and Respect Our Goals1. Create environments conducive to self-discovery and a relationship with God 2. Create materials and resources to assist people in growth with God, self and others 3. Promote and educate the church in areas of single persons in transition in relationships, occupations, values, beliefs and in relationship with God 4. Network information for single persons in transition 5. Leadership training 6. Events designed to educate, inform and further develop people in their understanding of God, others and ways outreach like SFA impact people"Can't shake the reverberations of: Ten Shekels and a Shirt Paris Reidhead

Mike, thank you for your thoughts! I actually missed the part where they have been doing this for 4 years. :-( I had been to their site also and had seen their goals and philosophy. I didn't post them though because I didn't want to debate over these issues- but to me- they are vey valid statements that show that they are approaching this through humanism. God forbid we tell someone that what they are doing is "wrong" and goes against God's standards. "i'm ok, you're ok". :-? Back a few years ago when I had one foot in the world and one foot in the church, I know I needed someone to come along and say "you know, what you're doing here does not really line up with the word of God." I may or may not have listened at the time, but looking back, I would know they really cared about me and loved me as God does. I am not going to be afraid to take this approach with people because they need to hear it. Only my own "selfishness" (caring about "self") would keep me from speaking the truth in love.

Back a few years ago when I had one foot in the world and one foot in the church, I know I needed someone to come along and say "you know, what you're doing here does not really line up with the word of God." I may or may not have listened at the time, but looking back, I would know they really cared about me and loved me as God does. I am not going to be afraid to take this approach with people because they need to hear it. Only my own "selfishness" (caring about "self") would keep me from speaking the truth in love.This is so well expressed Chanin, thank you.And yes that is where I was going with the allusion to Ten Shekels.Boy, if we had seen this right off the bat, I wonder how different this discussion might have been? Still it is good discussion, wish I could recall more of a series from John MacArthur on this whole subject of 'being in the world but not of it'. Suffice it to say, I don't think a 'bible study' of this sort in this place with this premise is what anybody had in mind back a few thousand years ago. Religion today is not transforming people; rather it is being transformed by the people. It is not raising the moral level of society; it is descending to society's own level, and congratulating itself that it has scored a victory because society is smilingly accepting its surrender. ... A. W. Tozer

To bring life into focus by offering affirmation, encouragement and hope to people in transition.Affirm the value of people and their contribution to others Encourage people needing support by believing in them Offer hope to people struggling Bring life into focus by creating environments where people can explore who they are spiritually, intellectually, socially and relationallyThis sounds very much like what comes out of the world of psychology today. They promote the idea of self-love, self-esteem and self-worth as being the driving force in all mankind's existence. Our fallen nature does focus on self, but that is not what we should be striving for. We should crucify self daily, but this is a concept is not found on their web site. When people meet in groups or one on one...No one is treated as being right or wrong No one will be judged for what they do or say All can participate as they are Everyone will be treated with Dignity, Honor and RespectAccording to these folks nobody should be considered right or wrong or judged for what they say or do! This is another principle of psychology, we are all victims, and victims shouldn't be judged. If you don't think you are a victim it is because you are unaware of it. But the truth is that what we are is sinful and in need of the saving grace of Jesus Christ.According to the world of psychology our great need is self-esteem, according to the Bible our great need is to know God personally. Having high self-esteem will not lead a person to God. Which is more important, being born again or thinking well of yourself? Until a person comes to the realization that he is a sinner and condemned to death by a just and Holy God (which by the way is a killer to self-esteem) he will never be ready to come in humble repentance to God.In Christ,Ron

Brother Mike,Thank you for the url for this groups website. It only affirms what I knew the Spirit of God was saying to me. For to me, if the heart of my prayer toward sin is, "Father, Lead us not into temptation." and then in the next sentence believe that the Spirit of God is calling me to conduct a bible study at Hooters..... deadly stuff. This indeed is an humanistic gospel that is being preached based on their philosophy of ministry. I only hope that weaker brothers who don't have access to such fellowship as takes place on this site, should they come across this article, will not be stumbled into thinking this is something from God.

The immediate problem with humanism is that it looks good to the rest of the world. And there is nothing satan loves more than to have his people look attractive and god-like. Only a person familiar with Scripture and the Good News would be able to discern the tragic error in this group's message. We're going to see even more of this and that is why it is so crucial to spread God's message of salvation as much as we can. We are living in the last days, brothers and sisters. There is no doubt of that. Let not one person pass by us that could be saved from the lake of fire.In Christ,Ed

We're going to see even more of this and that is why it is so crucial to spread God's message of salvation as much as we can. We are living in the last days, brothers and sisters. There is no doubt of that. Let not one person pass by us that could be saved from the lake of fireI agree heartily that we will see more of this. The enemy has a strategy of mixing everything worldly he possibly can with Christianity. Like a mother mixing medicine for her children with a sweet tasting additive- so Christianity is being mixed with all manor of unholy things in order to get people to 'swallow' it. We have to remember that the power is in the holiness. That is what will be denied in these last days. There is a 'form' of godliness- but it is a mixture. This will continue on as both doctrine and holiness is compromised until we wake up one day and the primary religion of the nation will be UNIVERSALISM. I'm saved- your saved, were all saved. Live like you want- believe what you want- it matters not- because the believe will be- everyones saved. I heard a minister say once that we have surrendered so much ground to the devil that we have reached a strategic inflexion point. We are backed up against a precipice with two options: surrender or CHARGE! I believe the message in this hour is raise the standard we marching to war. We can't surrender another inch to the devil! We can't allow our teenage kids to believe that they can take fire into their bosom and not be burned. That they can flirt with sin and not be effected. The modern church growth movement would applaud any effort to add one more name to the church role- but how many names are we adding to the Lambs Book of Life?

I don't know if many of you have listened to "Counterfit Spirituality" by Wilkerson (it's one of my favs)- but it addresses this pretty clearly.In Him, Chanin

What I find to be odd about this study at Hooters is most don't even use a Bible or so they say! What type of Bible study do you have without a Bible. I believe in reaching out to the lost, but I also believe in shunning all appearances of evil!