"Praying Through" (to victory over sin)

I've heard a number of references to "praying through" and getting the victory through Jesus Christ.The Holy Spirit has shown that there are some things in my life that I must "pray through." Could someone provide the Biblical basis for "praying through" and/or your own testimony in regards to praying through a specific sin that kept defeating you.Thank you for any response and I'll check back later today as I'm at lunch.

Thanks Brother Greg,I've been thinking about this all day and it's so disturbing to me. I think failure to a besetting sin reveals one of three things, or perhaps a combination thereof:1. Unbelief - Is there any greater sin than unbelief. I don't believe the Bible ranks sins but failure to have victory basically says that God isn't who he says he is. It says that God is incapable of giving victory. Ouch...2. Pride - God I'm going to get this victory no matter what, even it kills me. It fails to recognize that in my flesh there is no good thing (Romans 7) and Jesus' words when he said "Apart from me, you can do nothing." Ouch again...3. Love of sin - It reveals that the sin is loved more than Jesus Christ. In other words, this besetting sin is more appealing to me than Jesus. Jesus said "No man can serve two masters."Yet another ouch. I need to spend some time on my face and let the Holy Spirit tell me which of these (or perhaps all of them) apply. There is no victory apart from Jesus Christ, that part I'm certain of.

Gideon, my view is that Surely God does not want us living a dual life under or besiegedby a particular sin.God has made provision for us not to sin and to be freed from the law of Sin(in Adam)As a new creation we can now say the inevitability of sins is gone.1 John 2 v 1 it is now, 'IF' we sin not 'When'Hopefully the link below will help you as well this was a dicussion on a similar subjecthttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2081&forum=36&51 :-)

The Holy Spirit has shown that there are some things in my life that I must "pray through." Could someone provide the Biblical basis for "praying through" and/or your own testimony in regards to praying through a specific sin that kept defeating you.Hi GideonsIf God has shown you what to do He will show you how to do it. Beware the techniques. I would not ever want to discourage prayer but victory over sin is Christ's job not yours. He was given the name of Jesus because He would save His people from their sins. Faith cannot save you, nor prayer, no matter how tenacious. If it could faith would be your Saviour. Neither can prayer save you, for the same reason.Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22 KJV)

I really liked what Ron has to say here! It really confirms what I believe as well. Victory is a Man. You have that Man- so you can have victory.God does not give us a thing called victory. Instead, He gives us His Son to be our Victory. Christ is Victory. It is not a question of going forth to war in the name of Jesus and claiming the victory in advance. May I say that Victory does not depend upon whether you "claim" anything or not. Victory is a Man! Overcoming is entering into Victory Himself, being clothed with Victory, sharing in the Life of One Who overcame. Thus, our victory is bound up in the Lord Himself. It is not a separate grace or gift which He grants to certain ones who learn some principles of spiritual warfare. -C. BrogdenHere is the rest of this article called "Victory is a Man". It opened my eyes big time and I've never seen victory the same since. :)Victory Is A Manmany blessings Ed!!! I pray that you will find your rest in Him, the author and finisher of your faith.In Him, Chanin

A life of overcoming,A life of ceaseless praise,Be this thy blessed portionThroughout the coming days.The victory was purchased On Calvary'cross for thee,Sin shall not have dominion,The Son hath made thee free.And would'st thou know the secretOf constant victory?Let in the Overcomer,And He will conquer thee!Thy broken spirit takenIn sweet captivity,Shall glory in His triumphAnd share His victory.Though all the path before theeThe host of darkness fill,Look to Thy Father's promise,And claim the victory still,Faith sees the heavenly legions,Where doubt see naught but foes,And through the very conflictHer life the stronger grows.More stern will grom the conflictAs near our King's return,And they alone can face itWho this great lesson learn:-That from them God asks nothingBut to unlatch the doorAdmitting Him who through them,Will conquer evermore.Freda Hanbury Allen

Thanks so much for the posts,Jesus is the victory. I purchased that CD from Brother Chip and it's so true. Since He alone is victory there is no victory apart from Him. Thanks for reminding me Chanin.As to your comments Brother Ron, thank you. It's a warning to my flesh, which would say something like this "Lord if I just get the formula down right, then deliverance will occur." God has not and never will glorify the flesh (mine or anyone else's). It would be akin to saying look what God did with my help. It won't happen. Thank you for the warning.The only victory is in Christ and through the death of my flesh. Thank you all for the encouraging words.

Hi chanin, hey thanks as well for that link to victory is a man, so encouraging. :-)

Hi Greg, I know what you are getting at. I struggle with this sometimes- this thinking that I have to "do" something about these things. I guess what it comes down to is TRUST. If we trust Christ as our victory and if we trust Christ - as in give up, surrender, lay down on His bed of rest- then He will make sure that we walk according to the spirit and not the flesh. But when we think we must "do" instead of letting Him "do" then we are still walking in the flesh.I know it is a bit hard to comprehend- especailly for us who like to "do" and make things happen. I have come from that too and still struggle with it. But I am learning to lay down on His bed of rest- hands up in surrender and say "Lord, You take over" and He does. In this there is no way of us walking in the flesh because He has taken over and is in full charge.When I try to make things happen a certain way or try to "do" something, it is "ME" -and that would be flesh or self. That's what is so neat about total surrender. The Lord has shown me that to put our hands up- like we're "surrendering" and say, ok, I give up, You win, You take over"- this is what He wants and this is when we can overcome in all things. We need to acknowledge that He has won this war of the will and let Him run it Himself.There is no chance of falling, or not doing things that we shouldn't in this position (of hands up, surrender) because He is in control and running the show. The first thing that comes to our minds is "..But, what about devotions, what about this and that, I NEED to do this, what about....." All of that is us saying that we don't trust that He is going to be the good shepherd and lead us aright. When He is running the show, He is capable of letting us know, "hey, it;s time for some quiet time", or "it's time to go give of yourself to that nursing home" or whatever. we just don't see how it's possible that if we are not running things, how are they going to get done. But still that's the trust issue. We want to stay in control or we don't know how to give up control to a God that we can't see or hear (sometimes) What if, what if....Does any of this make any sense?I know what you mean by saying that we are not to sit back and just do nothing about anything. We have to actively put our trust and our "selves" into the hands of God and go from there. Things might be a little slow at first, but we are so used to doing things our way; and just "doing' things in general. We have to just "BE". BE hidden in Him, BE clothed in Him, Be at His feet. We have to trust that yes, He will show us the next step when we He wants us to move. He really does. I used to think, what if I sit here at His feet and He never says "get up and go do". He does. :)In Him, Chanin

Surrender is pivotal as you really show well but it has to be a surrender of our whole being which will translate into good works and not just "being" but "doing"! but dont mistake me, the "doing" is a natural outflow of "beingI think we are saying the same thing here. at least that is what I was trying to say at the end of my post. :-) That if we live fully surrendered, those good works will flow out. He will cause them to flow out though, not us. If we try to make them flow out a certain way- it is not really Christ but "self"- and that is really just an Ishmael instead of waiting for the promised Isaac.Believe me, I struggle with this all of the time. I always want to "do" something. But He always reminds me to wait on Him, wait until I am told to go, wait until I am told to do. In the mean time, I am kept busy with the many things of day to day life which I am responsible with being obedient to first anyway. :-) We may do many good things that seem to "help" God get things going. just like Abraham and Sarah, I am sure they thought maybe they were just "helping out a little" and maybe God didn't mean exactly what He said when He made the promise. This produced Ishamel which was produced in the flesh. They didn't trust God to carry through with the promise because they were waiting so long. I wonder how many things we "do" in the flesh because we are waiting so long for God to come through with what He promised us.When I talk about surrender- I am talking about our whole being and more also. That's why I say that about the "rest". Giving up complete control of everything is not easy for anyone. Giving up or wills and rights- even our rights to "do" something for God. We cannot produce good works for Him in the flesh. We cannot make ourselves walk in the spirit. We cannot crucify our flesh. Only He can do these things as we lay ourselves out for Him.You know that verse ...learn of Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls"?I think about how we are supposed to learn of Him, learn from Him, do what He did. He only did what He saw His father doing- and that's it- no more and no less. So it is with us. We should only be doing what we see the Father doing (and showing us to do)no more and no less. When i think of jesus' life, there was no striving, no straining. This is also why I think He says that if we learn from Him (and all of His gentle and lowly ways) that we will find rest. Because we should only be doing what we see the Father doing and not making our own plans and making our own Godly agendas and not following any man's plan. "Learn from ME".These are all things I am still learning myself, so as i say these things I am talking to myself as well. :-) Still pondering. :-)

In the surrendered life does the will to pray and read the bible come naturally? even our desire to seek God and believe on Him? is it fully from God? like if I say to myself I want to determine to pray the entire night or to say I want to devour the word of God, is that necessary automatically 'in the flesh' because its something that I am choosing to do?hmmmm. Yes!, i believe that it can be natural from God- but that when we feel we have to do it because of some other reason, like because we see someone else doing it or false guilt, or because we heard we "should", then no, that is the flesh. God is the ultimate shepherd and we follow Him. He is capable of leading, but we must follow Him and not man or self.I am going to put this here to in regards to your remark about "something seems missing" about all of this (from a 'pm') because i feel it might help me and anyone else feeling the same way. :) I know this sounds funny but I am excited to hear you say this "I still feel there is a piece of the puzzle we need to place with it." because thats what i have been saying also and have been praying all year about. but slowly I am getting revelation on this. it is hard to explain, but the Lord keeps showing me this thing about the beds. our "self" struggles so much with still wanting to "do". we feel we must, we feel we just have to. Laying that down is impossibly hard. but i am learning. because when i don't lay that down, I am striving in the flesh. it's like that last thing to lay down. do I trust God to be enough, to work in me enough, to be my "good works" and that He will produce good works through me- in HIS timing and HIS way.I am just getting some breakthrough here, so bear with me. I felt there was somehting missing all along too but it was because I didn't understand what it meant to rest in Him. i thought i did, but i thought it was a cop out. "What about our part?" Our part is having the guts to lay it all down for him to take care of -and to walk in obedience to that. Having the guts to trust Him that He is all we need and that it doesn't matter what anyone else does or thinks. it's about my relationship with God and fixing our eyes on Him and His will for each one of us- not his will for someone else. It's so easy to look around and see many others doing so many other things. But we can't concern ourselves with what anybody else does or did. We are responsible only for what we do and how we surrender to Him. Just think if we didn't compare ourwalk with anyone elses and just trusted in the Lord for our walk with Him- and that He would lead us to do His will. What a weight that comes off of us. we are only to share a yolk with Christ- that is a pretty easy one since we just follow Him and do what He says to do (not easy as no suffering or anything) but I think many times we are sharing the yolks of others- trying to do what others have done and are doing -and that makes for a pretty heavy burden, a very heavy yolk.We are to share the yolk with Christ only. Just more thoughts coming... and i'm sure there's more. I am on a roll (of sorts) i love getting new revelation. this is one I have been waiting on for awhile. :-)

Surrender is pivotal as you really show well but it has to be a surrender of our whole being which will translate into good works and not just "being" but "doing"! but dont mistake me, the "doing" is a natural outflow of "being". Hmm I think I need to ask the question you asked hehe:Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Phi 2:12-13 KJV)You will only work out what God has worked in.Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.(Col 1:28-29 KJV)Striving is agōnizomai; to contend for a prize, struggle: - competes in the games (1), fight (1), fighting (1), fought (1), laboring earnestly (1), strive (2), striving (1). It is the word we get 'agonize' from but the emphasis is not on pain but effort. Did you see some of those athletes in the Olympic Games? They were so concentrated they didn't even blink. There is a place for passionate concentration but we must never think that it is our struggling that wins the prize. It is His struggling within us. The Spirit both hovers [Gen 1:2] and strives [Gen 6:3] The classic combination of these two states is to be found in a peculiar tension in the KJV; Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. (Heb 4:11 KJV) The word should really be 'be diligent' but I like the contrast. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.(Rom 6:8-13 NASB)The 'reckoning'(consider) here is preceeded by conscious experience, but the 'presenting' is preceeded by the 'reckoning'. I have opted for the NASB because the English word 'yield' is too passive to do justice to this. This is the same active surrender found in Rom 12:1. Do soldiers over there 'present arms'? It is the military equivalent of offering your weapon to your commanding officer; it is at his disposal even though it is still in your hands. This is not the yielding of a passive sigh, but the active presenting of all that we are to Christ.Presenting arms is not exertion, but neither is it pietistic passivity. When you have 'presented arms' (presented your weapons... to God) there will be plenty of exertion ahead. Here is the balance; for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13 NASB)you, you must do it... but... by the Spirit.

you, you must do it... but... by the Spirit.Ron, yes! this is it exactly. "we" still choose, "we" still surrender. He doesn't make us do anything. He may prompt us, and when we "do" surrender or present ourselves to Him, then by the spirit He guides us.Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.yes, even in this I see myself laboring to try to enter this rest. it's such an oxymoron in a way. But, yes, I feel that i have been trying to get to that place of rest that i know He is trying to show me- instead of trusting in my "self". I think i may be at my limit for revelation today. the words are starting to go round and round. :-P

Wow, this is a great discussion. Very meaty.I've been praying about unbelief since November of last year. I could write a book about it I believe but the revelation is still coming. The things that were in my heart were appalling to me. I sincerely think that unbelief is the number one sin among believers. Most believers are not even aware of this, which saddens my heart deeply.We love him because he first loved us. Everything in our relationship with Jesus Christ is because He is the initiater. The Holy Spirit convicts our hearts of sin, of unbelief, etc. It's not something we do.Our prayers, our Bible study, fasting, etc. do not merit any additional favor with God but these things come out of this relationship with the risen Christ. He is the Alpha and the Omega.One of the real struggles I've had is this attempt to somehow "make it up" to God. God I've been such a heathen, such a sinner, such a wayward one, I want to make it up to you in some way. I've prayed for the baptism of fire that God would smite me (the list could go on for awhile). I've made all sorts of prayers along these lines and God is purging these things from me as I die.I simply can't make it up to God. My wife and I were at a casino close to a year ago and we lost some money and I begin to pray that I would break even (not advocating gambling here and it's something I had to repent of). He was gracious, then I promptly lost that money. I then saw a sign where the chips were to be cashed in that said "self-redemption." I started crying and I repented but we're redeemed only by the blood of the Lamb.Of late, I've been convicted of all the "Ismaelites" (Galatians 4) in my life where I tried to help God in some way and there's nothing I can do to make it up to Jesus. Does that mean I give up? No, but I give up trying to do this in my own strength in my own power. Isaiah 50:11 says "But now, all you who light fires and provide yourselves with flaming torches, go, walk in the light of your fires and of the torches you have set ablaze. This is what you shall receive from my hand: You will lie down in torment." Remember when Peter denied Christ three times. Peter said moi? I don't think so Lord, not me, I'll even die for you. And you see God will never glorify our flesh and you see this marvelous transformation in Peter's life after he repented of this unbelief and pride to where he preached one of the most powerful sermons recorded in the Bible. It was God that changed His heart, not through the power of his own efforts.One part of the revival hymn that Greg didn't quote comes to mind from Brother Reidhead "I looked at the fellow and you know what he looked like? Me. Just looked like me. I just saw in him everything that was in me, you thought You thought I was going to say “me” before. No, listen to your heart. If you’ve ever seen yourself you’ll know that you’re never gonna be anything else than you were. For in me in my flesh, there is no good thing."I apologize for posting a bit much but I strongly believe I'm not the only person at this particular place in their journey.

If God has shown you what to do He will show you how to do it. Beware the techniques. I would not ever want to discourage prayer but victory over sin is Christ's job not yours. He was given the name of Jesus because He would save His people from their sins. Faith cannot save you, nor prayer, no matter how tenacious. If it could faith would be your Saviour. Neither can prayer save you, for the same reason.I agree with what you mean but not with what you say, although you have qualified your expression it is still in direct contradiction to Jesus' words;(Luk 7:50) And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.(Luk 18:42) And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.Isn't it true in every case that the instrument of salvation is faith? Isn't this the method God has chosen? Yes, in the deepest sense, it was Jesus who saved the women and the blind man in Luke but He still said "thy faith has saved thee" because he knew that faith would not claim any glory for self. Faith is to salvation like the mouth is to hunger. If we're hungry then bread is the real cure but it would be right to say that eating removes hunger since the bread itself does us no good unless it goes in the mouth. Faith is the souls mouth. The prayer of faith is the hand that grabs the salvation of Christ, salvation from the guilt and power of sin, and so we are saved.In Christ,Ron

Remember when Peter denied Christ three times. Peter said moi? I don't think so Lord, not me, I'll even die for you. And you see God will never glorify our flesh and you see this marvelous transformation in Peter's life after he repented of this unbelief and pride to where he preached one of the most powerful sermons recorded in the Bible. It was God that changed His heart, not through the power of his own efforts.Wow, I was thinking the same thing. I couldn't remember at the time how to go about explaining that- just remember reading it from Andrew Murray.I think this is "all good"! I think the sharing back and forth and feeding off of what each other is saying is awsome in itself. Real fellowship. I am still in this whole process of understanding too. This whole balance between working for Him and Him working through me.In Him, Chanin

I am so glad I read your comments today.It is Christ in us the Hope of Glory.He is our ever present help.He is our Peace.Thank-God for His Rest.He wants to do the work in us.We only hinder Him when we try to help.Don't know about you but I'm glad that nothingcan seperate us from His Love.Still have a lot to learn about our Saviour.God Bless ,and I know He will.Nellie

Isn't it true in every case that the instrument of salvation is faith? Isn't this the method God has chosen? Yes, in the deepest sense, it was Jesus who saved the women and the blind man in Luke but He still said "thy faith has saved thee" because he knew that faith would not claim any glory for self.Hi RonI don't think we are far apart here. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Eph 2:8 KJV)Faith is indeed the instrument, but not the Saviour. It is the channel through which God had determined to bring grace, but in the fulness of the revelation it is 'dia-through' faith. On Luke 7:50 Adam Clarke says "Thy faith hath been the instrument of receiving the salvation which is promised to those who repent." I note that the Lord said this after the event. To say it before the event would be to focus on faith rather than the object of that faith.

Once again, a great conversation! I'm so glad to see people who are really striving for the fullness of Christ! People who are eager and hungry and have come together to help each other on the way.Gideons wrote:I apologize for posting a bit much but I strongly believe I'm not the only person at this particular place in their journey.No need for apology, you are not alone in this situation, that's for sure! Some have come a bit futher down the road than others, but these things are just foundational and so very important. So thank you for starting the thread and for sharing what is on your heart! I for one am glad that you did./Rikard

Amazingly, I came across this by Watchamn Nee and confirms what we were all saying here and that I was not just fumbling around with my thoughts and words. :-) It does indeed have to do with trust (or lack of) and unbelief. Thank you God. :)An excerpt from Watchman Nee's God's Keeping Power It is a distressing fact that some Christians believe in God's saving power, but they do not believe in His keeping power. They have received God's saving grace but have not yet received His keeping grace. They do not realize that He who is the Giver of grace is also the One who maintains us in His grace. Let us see from the Scriptures how we who have been saved by God can be kept by Him.We are totally unable to keep ourselves in the grace of God. There is no guarantee that even five years after we have been saved we will be found in the measure of faith we had in our earlier Christian life. We cannot abide in the grace of God by our own effort; He alone can maintain us in His grace.Let us now look into the practical outworking of this. We must not forget that there is a condition attached to God's keeping power. If we do not trust Him, He is unable to keep us. In order to experience His salvation, and in order to have His keeping power, we must believe wholeheartedly in His promises. If after we have overcome, we doubt whether our overcoming experience can be sustained, we are discrediting His keeping power. We must believe in God's keeping power. Every morning when we rise we should say to Him, "God, I thank You for keeping me yesterday, and today You will still keep me. I do not know what temptations may befall me, and I do not know how I can overcome. I cannot do anything; but I believe You will keep me." First Peter 1:5 speaks of being "guarded by the power of God through faith." God guards those who have faith in Him. We do not have to grapple with temptations and try to overcome them; the keeping power of God will get us through, and we must believe in His ability to save us from giving way to sin. If we implicitly rely on Him, even when we are unexpectedly assailed by temptations, an amazing thing will happen. In a way we cannot account for, something will ward off all the fiery darts of the evil one. It is the shield of faith. It will come in between us and Satan, so that his fiery darts cannot reach us. Instead of hurting us they will beat upon the shield of faith and rebound on Satan himself.Paul said, "I am persuaded that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day" (2 Tim. 1:12). Paul did something; he committed himself to the Lord. If you believe in Him, then you must commit yourself to Him. He can only keep those who have handed themselves over to Him. Many people fail to experience the blessedness of His keeping power because they have never put themselves into His care. They have never said to Him, "Lord, I hand myself over to you and commit to You the keeping of my life." Brothers and sisters, have you placed yourselves in His hands? If you truly have, then you will be able to say with Paul, "I am persuaded that He is able to guard my deposit unto that day."If your life is truly in His hands, then the promise of Jude 24--"to guard you from stumbling and to set you before His glory without blemish in exultation" will be fulfilled in you. To stumble is to slip and strike against something when we are unconscious of any obstruction in the way. Praise God, He will preserve us not only from falling but also from the slightest slippage. Thank and praise the Lord, His preserving grace operates beyond the realm of our consciousness. Brothers and sisters, if we commit ourselves unreservedly into His care, we will marvel at the way we are kept. When temptation suddenly assails and love is required, we will find love spontaneously welling up from within. When a sudden temptation demands patience, without giving it a moment's thought, our patience will rise up to meet the need. Praise God, as the life we received from Adam spontaneously expresses itself, so also does the life we receive from Christ. We inherited our bad temper from Adam, and we can become angry without the slightest effort of will. We inherited pride from Adam, and we can become proud without any deliberate decision. In the same way, those who have received the life of Christ and committed themselves into His keeping can be meek without making up their minds to be meek, and humble without any effort to be humble. The same spontaneity of manifestation that characterizes the life we have received from Adam also characterizes the life we have received from Christ. To work out what the Lord Jesus has given us does not require any effort on our part. If we trust in His promises and commit ourselves utterly to Him, we will be kept from this day to the day of His return, and we will be kept without blemish. Thank God, we have a salvation which is worthy of our trust and which will withstand every trial.

I don't want to end this without saying that I do believe we are to continue to "press on". I have this imbedded in my heart- to keep pressing on, going up higher, reaching for the fullness of Christ. Just so you don't think I mean that we don't do anything at all and are just being lazy. :-P In Him, Chanin

Thanks to everybody who has taken part in this forum. I was greatly blessed by the many responses, for this is where I am in my spiritual walk. I just fininshed listening to Power Over Sin by David Wilkerson, and he said very much the same thing as Chip Brogen in Victory is a Man. This place is becoming more and more like a church as Mike is fond of calling it. Coming together in one heart and mind. Again thanks to all you have shared their thoughts on this topic.Kept by His Power AloneLyndon

Fulness Received and Ears to HearCol. 2 [9] In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Col 1: [19] Fo it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell John 1: [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. Romans 6:18 Being freed from sin, ye were enslaved to righteousness. Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free. In the letter to the Romans, Paul doesn’t begin to talk about “present yourselves to God” until he has previously told us about what Christ has done for us, and who we are in Him.“'We have been seated in the heavenlies with Christ' -- but no one shouts 'Hallelujah!', and no one thinks it is wonderful. Everyone is very pious and will go away from a meeting saying: 'We must try and live up to that!' You can say that for the rest of your life, but you will never live up to it! You can pray for the rest of your life, and you will be more and more pious in the flesh, but you will never be a man of the Gospel.”It is up to me [Poil Madsen says] now to speak the living words of God, and it is up to you [readers at SI] to listen. That is more important than anything else, for the Lord says: "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Matthew 11:15). If He speaks and you listen, you will receive what He says, so you can live out from that. Difficulties and sorrows will come, and Satan will attack, but sorrows, enemies and satanic attacks all have one thing as their goal -- the quenching of that living, humble faith which was exercised when you listened and heard and received.”Paul Madsen “The Power of the Word of Faith” Section 5 (9/2 18:59) currently being posted under “Other Speakers”.

Wow, great stuff.I particularly liked what Mother Cobb said "How am I going to be kept from sin? By the constant application of the blood of Christ, moment by moment. The heart, while it lies in the cleansing fountain, is kept clean. If in doubt, fly to the present, cleansing blood. Claim this prize all anew, moment by moment. I claim all the purchase of Thy blood, because Thou hast promised and art faithful and just to gorgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "Amen. I also like the quote from Paul Madsen which says “'We have been seated in the heavenlies with Christ' -- but no one shouts 'Hallelujah!', and no one thinks it is wonderful. Everyone is very pious and will go away from a meeting saying: 'We must try and live up to that!' You can say that for the rest of your life, but you will never live up to it! You can pray for the rest of your life, and you will be more and more pious in the flesh, but you will never be a man of the Gospel."One things sticks in my mind and this verse has come up in my spirit several times of late (Joel 2:25) .I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten- the great locust and the young locust, the other locusts and the locust swarm - my great army that I sent among you. HE will repay us after we repent, after we fully surrender to God, not the other way around. What a wonderful gracious God we serve

The Almost-Delivered ManThe man has tried to obey the beautiful law of God. He has loved it, he has wept over his sin, he has tried to conquer, he has tried to overcome fault after fault, but every time he has ended in failure. What did he mean by "the body of this death"? Did he mean, my body when I die? Verily no. In the eighth chapter you have the answer to this question in the words: "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." That is the body of death from which he is seeking deliverance. And now he is on the brink of deliverance! In the twenty-third verse of the seventh chapter we have the words: "I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." It is a captive that cries: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" He is a man who feels himself bound. But look to the contrast in the second verse of the eighth chapter: "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." That is the deliverance through Jesus Christ our Lord; the liberty to the captive which the Spirit brings. Can you keep captive any longer a man made free by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus"? But you say, the regenerate man, had not he the Spirit of Jesus when he spoke in the sixth chapter? Yes, but he did not know what the Holy Spirit could do for him. God does not work by His Spirit as He works by a blind force in nature. He leads His people on as reasonable, intelligent beings, and therefore when He wants to give us that Holy Spirit whom He has promised, He brings us first to the end of self, to the conviction that though we have been striving to obey the law, we have failed. When we have come to the end of that, then He shows us that in the Holy Spirit we have the power of obedience, the power of victory, and the power of real holiness. God works to will, and He is ready to work to do, but, alas! many Christians misunderstand this. They think because they have the will, it is enough, and that now they are able to do. This is not so. The new will is a permanent gift, an attribute of the new nature. The power to do is not a permanent gift, but must be each moment received from the Holy Spirit. It is the man who is conscious of his own impotence as a believer who will learn that by the Holy Spirit he can live a holy life. This man is on the brink of that great deliverance; the way has been prepared for the glorious eighth chapter. I now ask this solemn question: Where are you living? Is it with you, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me?" with now and then a little experience of the power of the Holy Spirit? or is it, "I thank God through Jesus Christ! The law of the Spirit hath set me free from the law of sin and of death"? What the Holy Spirit does is to give the victory. "If ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the flesh, ye shall live." It is the Holy Ghost who does this — the third Person of the Godhead. He it is who, when the heart is opened wide to receive Him, comes in and reigns there, and mortifies the deeds of the body, day by day, hour by hour, and moment by moment. I want to bring this to a point. Remember, dear friend, what we need is to come to decision and action. There are in Scripture two very different sorts of Christians. The Bible speaks in Romans, Corinthians and Galatians about yielding to the flesh; and that is the life of tens of thousands of believers. All their lack of joy in the Holy Ghost, and their lack of the liberty He gives, is just owing to the flesh. The Spirit is within them, but the flesh rules the life. To be led by the Spirit of God is what they need. Would God that I could make every child of His realize what it means that the everlasting God has given His dear Son, Christ Jesus, to watch over you every day, and that what you have to do is to trust; and that the work of the Holy Spirit is to enable you. every moment to remember Jesus, and to trust Him! The Spirit has come to keep the link with Him unbroken every moment. Praise God for the Holy Ghost! We are so accustomed to think of the Holy Spirit as a luxury, for special times, or for special ministers and men. But the Holy Spirit is necessary for every believer, every moment of the day. Praise God you have Him, and that He gives you the full experience of the deliverance in Christ, as He makes you free from the power of sin. Who longs to have the power and the liberty of the Holy Spirit? Oh, brother, bow before God in one final cry of despair: "O God, must I go on sinning this way forever? Who shall deliver me, O wretched man that I am! from the body of this death?" Are you ready to sink before God in that cry and seek the power of Jesus to dwell and work in you? Are you ready to say: "I thank God through Jesus Christ"? What good does it do that we go to church or attend conventions, that we study our Bibles and pray, unless our lives are filled with the Holy Spirit? That is what God wants; and nothing else will enable us to live a life of power and peace. You know that when a minister or parent is using the catechism, when a question is asked an answer is expected. Alas! how many Christians are content with the question put here: "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" but never give the answer. Instead of answering, they are silent. Instead of saying: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord," they are forever repeating the question without the answer. If you want the path to the full deliverance of Christ, and the liberty of the Spirit, the glorious liberty of the children of God, take it through the seventh chapter of Romans; and then say: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord." Be not content to remain ever groaning, but say: "I, a wretched man, thank God, through Jesus Christ. Even though I do not see it all, I am going to praise God." There is deliverance, there is the liberty of the Holy Spirit. The kingdom of God is "joy in the Holy Ghost."

I'm crying. This is what I have been dealing with. I have gone to a church for 5 years. This is the church of the pastor that led me to Christ. For the past year I have been crying to the Lord, what is my problem, I want to serve you, I want to know your love. All I have been getting is condemnation. I have heard preached for the past 5 years don't do this, don't do that, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling", so my whole outlook and understanding of Jesus is just Judge. I am longing for a closer walk in love and not duty and the law and Jesus has freed me from the bondage I was under. This post really has touched me and I am so glad I came upon this site.Finally delivered, Victoria :lol: