Is Michael Jackson in Heaven?...(Bread Crumbs#9)

This article was posted to my Facebook and is evangelical in nature. It is a part of a series of articles that are written devotionally for the lost. Please review it and pass it to your friends if you would like. As usual, feedback is always encouraged.
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In the words of a friend of mine on Facebook: "Michael Jackson was the Elvis of our day." Another one said: "Michael Jackson was my idol as a child." And indeed, Michael Jackson was both a legend and an icon of our day. But why the shock when he dies? Sure, we wouldn't want any of us in the world to pass away. None of us wish to lose loved ones or friends to death’s inevitable grip. But this should be a stark reminder of who we are in this world, human!

Because Michael was human, he too is not exempt from the ever-losing battle against death. Why are many shocked at the death of Michael Jackson? Probably because we think, perhaps, he was too young. But no matter how old Michael was at his death, the world would mourn just the same. And it is amazing to see the adoration this man received within minutes after he died. Literally millions tuned into the news, Internet, and phone lines to talk about the death of one man. And to this very second, the world is gathered together, in spirit, to praise this one man for his great accomplishments. You would think this man was a god!

Now, is Michael in Heaven? Before we answer this, I would like to direct you to another Man (who is God) that died, and yet you do not give Him the same adoration. Jesus Christ was God on earth and suffered so that sin (in your life) can be destroyed. This Man died on the cross and endured the wrath of God, so that you and Him and could be reconciled and no longer enemies to each other. This death not only guarantees you Heaven, but more importantly, a right relationship with God with a new life totally committed to Him. With this new life comes a lifetime of expression, to the world, that Jesus is Savior and Lord of your life. DID YOU HEAR THAT? One of the ways you know that you are a born again Christian and on your way to Heaven is when you publicly confess Jesus as Lord, and you tell people on a regular basis that Jesus is the only way to God. Not only that, you publicly make it known BY YOUR LIFESTYLE that you and God have a relationship.

So with all this in mind, let us answer our question. Is Michael Jackson in Heaven? Well, let us look at his life. Did he publicly confess Jesus as Lord and Savior? Was his life totally committed to God and His ways? Did his LIFESTLYE tell the world that Jesus was his God, and that by Him (Jesus) is the only way men can be saved? Ladies and Gentlemen, though I loved Michael Jackson as much as anyone else, my heart burns with sorrow to know that Michael is not in Heaven. The first thing I thought about when I heard the news that Michael died was, "Oh no! Michael wasn't born again! Not another one Lord!" It truly grieved me to know that Michael Jackson is not resting in peace.

Does this anger you? Does it upset you that someone would write something like this? If it does, I would like you to know that I would not want anything more than to know that Michael Jackson is in Heaven. But I would be deceived to think so, and so would you. Just like Michael, we have broken the Ten Commandments. And it doesn't matter if you're a star or a bum. If you sin against God, he cannot let you slide on the Day of judgment. Jesus Christ was sent for men to be saved from the wrath of God. He satisfied the justice of God by bearing our punishment of sin upon his head. And all we do is adore a man who has done nothing but made millions of albums, influenced a corrupt musical culture, and then died. Yet Jesus has influenced 2 millenniums of world history, invaded a Godless culture, and died BUT ROSE AGAIN so that you can one day rise too! DID YOU HEAR THAT! Unlike Michael, Jesus still lives!

Though Michael is not in Heaven, you can be if you would repent and turn from your sin and place your trust in the TRUE KING. King Jesus! Plead with God to save your soul from the lies, the thefts, the lust, the cursing, the hatred and watch a real Icon work. Do it today before it is too late? Just like Michael, your death will be a shock too. Because no matter how old you are, you must die and face God.

Icons, Idols, and legends have no importance and
no place in eternity!!

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3494296/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam-and-changes-name-to-Mikaeel.html)

According to this article Michael Jackson was a devout muslim so he is in Hell!

I am not arguing the recent post. I know children have traumatic experience that can change the course of their lives. I just want to ask a question though. Why are so many Christians scared to say what lost men are according to scripture? I am not calling you scared ccrider. i just have gotten some very interesting feedback on this article and would like to hear some other peoples take on it. I mean, calling men sinful and telling them their fate go hand in hand, right?

in response to me article, i was told things like "Only God knows" and "we cannot judge" and this one burned me up, "Maybe Mike was immensely backslidden."
I just want to know why is it a problem for Christians to humbly tell men what a spade is?

Does anyone think that the author of the article was hypocritically humble by saying Mike was in hell? I am asking because I want know if posting something like this would be pride? I just want some scripture and some clarity.

warriorofgod wrote:
I just want to know why is it a problem for Christians to humbly tell men what a spade is?

[i]Simon told Peter, "Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost." But Peter said unto him, "Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity."

Then answered Simon, and said, "Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me."

And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.[/i]
Acts 8.18-25

While they were in Samaria, it was revealed to Peter by the Holy Spirit who then spoke these things to Simon "himself." (It was not broadcast all over) Now, someone had to hear it because it's been written down but bet you me they didn't interfere with Peter and Simon's conversation by standing in the background saying, "That's what I'm talking about; dude, you're going HELL man!!"

Secondly, we have to see that Simon was quick to repent when this information (by the Spirit) made known to him the condition of his heart. Read verse 25 again... [i]And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.[/i]

Now, I want to ask you or the person who wrote this supposedly evangelical in nature piece... [b]HOW do you or they know that Michael didn't make things right with Christ before "he" past from this life to the next?[/b] I'm not saying that he did but how do you or this person know that he [b]didn't[/b]????

You know, this is why it's better to keep our mouths shut and our typewriters silent when in our spiritual arrogance we think we know something about the state of someone else's soul or where they are spending eternity because we are not God and therefore, [b]we don't know.[/b]

I'm just saying, if he did make things right in that fine hour before he died, the author of this piece is going to look mighty ignorant of God on judgment day. That's all I'm saying.

God bless you warriorofgod and everyone who has commented either way on this thread. I have not meant to offend but I'm sure I have... It's only by HIS love and mercy that any of us can say we are His,

Scriptures say we as followers of Christ we [b]NEVER[/b] judge anthers mans judgment, this is for God alone to do. This is not good in doing, we can not know, and even if it seem obvious, no one can know for sure, let alone people who never lived together with such the person at hand. its foolishness at best.

Dear ccrider and sister Lysa.

I must say that you two are a tremendous blessing here on SI. I find your writings, many times filled with the wisdom of God. Thank you for your many contributions.

I believe the word of God, that without holiness no man shall see the Lord. I also believe that without His mercy none would see the Lord. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked and I will have no pleasure in judging those who have died. I will not cast judgment on the dead; I must only try to warn them while they are breathing. After death God will be their only judge. If God does not show me mercy then I would surely be in hell. I never got the opportunity to witness the gospel to Michael Jackson and I have no desire to condemn him to hell either. I do believe that without salvation through the blood sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ to a genuine born of God experience none can escape hell.

Thanks also HmmHmmm, you are always a blessing on SI with much wisdom from God.

Blessings to all!

So then do we have to know someone to be confident that they are probably in hell because of their life of sin? What about when they confess Christ in their dying hour? Does that make them saved?

What about when they confess Christ in their dying hour? Does that make them saved?

And why not? Jesus told the dying thief on the cross that "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise." Never a word like this was said to the other man on the cross....don't we wonder what he was thinking? The Scriptures is silent on this so we can rightly assume he never acknowledged his need for a Saviour. Perhaps this goes to illustrate that in dying moments some may acknowledge their need for a Saviour while others won't. Something to consider...in any case to postpone salvation until this point in time is foolishness at it worst, IMHO.

ginnyrose

I am just simply pointing out how we are quicker to confirm men into heaven because he confessed Christ in his death bed or possibly could've, but yet, the opposite we don't have the wherewithal to say anything about. Of course some one would cry to Christ in his death bed, because he probably doesn't want to go to hell. Not because he is repentant of sin. And asking Christ to save him from sin does not carry the motivation behind why he is asking. Remember "Ten Shekels and a Shirt"?

I of all people hope that Michael would not perish. But the simple fact is that many don't tread that ground because they think that we are putting him in hell when that is Gods job. In all reality, it is Gods job! And only God does truly knows since he was the only one present at the time of Michael's death. But the Bible reveals what happens to these kinds of people and we can be confident FROM GODS WORD and based off what we know about Mike, he more than likely perished. The Bible reveals Gods job! What about Hitler? Is it possible that he confessed Christ in his death bed? Sure its possible? Do you think he meant it? We will never know if he did. But who is going to say that it is possible that Hitler is in heaven because he confessed Christ on his death bed? I haven't heard one yet.

I am hurt, not because i am offended at what this thread is about, but at the shear fact that we (christians) do not wish to divide the holy from the profane. I could be deceived about this whole thing. Maybe I am wrong about talking about mikes death and "sending him" to hell. I am hurt that mike is probably in hell. But I am no longer going to stand by and watch people profane the name of God any longer by making grey what God has made clear in scripture. The fruit that mike possessed in his life was zilch, zero, nada. And the bible makes it very clear that those trees will get sent into fire, and will be cut down or pulled up.

The thief on the cross was very blessed to have Christ in front of him. He was saved because he was clearly sorry for what he did. This shows that men have a possibility to confess Christ right before death. But on the other hand, we see the warning in scripture about wicked men and how their destruction comes upon them suddenly and unexpected. But we are quicker to bring up the thief on the cross while chiding at the people who wish to reveal the other side of the story then to defend both sides.

i am sorry I even brought this all up. I do not wish to talk about it anymore. I have become overwhelmed with emotion thinking about this and wish to discontinue my portion in this thread. i am sorry to everyone I offended. I really hope you don't take me as arrogant. If I am, God is faithful to reveal it to me. I am already under some conviction about this whole thing already. God bless you all.

Would be to God that Michael Jackson was singing about our Lord when he sang "I'll be There"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehal1eUG1jk

. . . and maybe, just maybe, that is where his heart turned in his final hour.

As I reviewed some of the things in Michael Jackson's life a great sorrow came upon me. Here was a pure, God given voice that was used for evil. Woe be to the people that sold his soul for profit. Woe be to any of us that participated in the merchandising of the gifts of this small boy.

I watched a live performance video of his on youTube called "Black or White" and was horrified by the evil that was oozing forth. What was even more horrifying was the way the audience was drinking it up. The man was clearly possessed of the devil.

Michael Jackson's exwife Lisa Marie Presley wrote:
"He was an incredibly dynamic force and power that was not to be underestimated. When he used it for something good, It was the best and when he used it for something bad, It was really, REALLY bad."

And so it is with the forces of good and evil.

I want to detail the Dying Thief! Charles Spurgeon really enlightened me on this subject!

Luke 23
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

[url=http://mp3.sa-media.com/media/72107205854/72107205854.mp3]The Dying Thief in a New Light
C. H. Spurgeon[/url]

The dying thief is interesting!
1. He rebukes the other thief for not believing in Jesus (verses 40-41)
2. He asks Jesus to remember him
3. He says that Jesus has not sinned proving Jesus' righteousness(Verse 41)
4. He realizes that he has sinned (Verse 41)

With the thief we think he turned to Jesus at his dying moments it shocked me to realise that he has more faith than most christians actually rebuking the other non believing thief who did not make a death bed conversion! Which shows people cannot make death bed conversions. Why do we assume because this person is popular that they go to heaven! Hell is for all sinners!

To return back to the thief, he not only made an evangelistic statement to the other thief. He states Jesus righteousness and then asks Jesus to save him! Which is a great act of faith!

[urlhttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=16291&commentView=itemCommentscommentView=itemComments](Covenant Word Ministries) Hell!
[/url]

Keith Daniels Sermon on Hell clears this subject up abit

I believe that it is arrogance for ANY MAN to say where another man is in eternity. However much scripture you may know... you can know the bible word for word from the cover to the map and have all of the greek, hebrew and latin broken down, but you ARE NOT GOD. Man looks on the outward appearance while God looks at the heart.

ANYONE who speculates and says another person is in heaven or hell is himself sinning. You are judging before the time and putting yourself in place of God which is prideful and arrogant, however Godly you may believe you are. These are the ACTIONS of a proud haughty person, and pride goes before a fall, and you're setting yourself up to suffer a fate just as Michael Jackson did. You reap what you sow.

We can't even say whether Hitler is in hell by his actions, however Hitler did commit suicide and we know what the bible says about that, so that is the only thing we can judge Hitler by and say with almost assurance that he is in eternal punishment.

I am not excusing anyone's behavior or actions, because God is not mocked, and a man must reap what he has sown. I am not being critical of anyone here. I am only standing up for the Word/Spirit of the Lord and my convictions (the same as you may be doing) when I say that MAN CANNOT JUDGE ANOTHER MAN BEFORE THE TIME (1 Corinthians 4:5). We should remain humble by staying out of God's business. Be blessed everyone.

:-)

hmmhmm wrote:
Scriptures say we as followers of Christ we NEVER judge anthers mans judgment

DeepThinker wrote:
Tell that to Peter who sent Annais and Sapphira to their graves for lying to the Holy Ghost, and it's written that

Paul judged 1 Cor 5.3-5

Ccrider wrote something >>>> I just can't bring myself to judge anyone's eternal salvation, even in the light of God's Word. [b]That's not to say that God's truth isn't what it is.[/b]

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:17,18).

I don't know why this second half didn't paste into the post the Lord must not want it posted... because I'm looking at it right now underneath this and it's not showing up! Isn't God awesome??!!

Ccrider wrote something >>>> I just can't bring myself to judge anyone's eternal salvation, even in the light of God's Word. [b]That's not to say that God's truth isn't what it is.[/b] (It was the brackets I had here! I blamed God for technology. Forgive me Jesus! I thought it was You!! Sorry!)

I heard Zac Poonen say in one of his sermons (I'm paraphrasing), that he believes God put certain scriptures (freedoms so to speak) in the Bible to see how we will handle them. Will we run with them and use them as our excuse to do what we do or will we submit what we think we know or understand the truth to be to Christ?

Mt 7:1 [b]Judge not, that ye be not judged.[/b]
I do not believe that any human ([b]especially a forgiven Christian[/b]), has the right to condemn | judge | sentence another person.

I spent the first 20 years of my Christian walk judging other people – their walk, their talk, their Bible, their religion, etc, passing judgment carelessly but about ten years ago I had the unique privilege of backsliding for about four or five years and I got to see first hand the reality of living through a lot of the judgments I past out. The Lord has helped me to see that that is not the way of truth and righteousness and charity (which is the greatest).

I will add again> It's only by HIS love and mercy that any of us can say we are His,

God bless you all in your walk with Him,

I know that I told you all in a previous post that I would no longer be a part of this thread, but my conscience is very pricked concerning this whole ordeal and I need some clarification on something.

We know that one of thieves on the cross was saved. We know this because Jesus turned to him and told him that he was going to be in paradise with him. But what about the other thief? Is he in hell? Can we confidently say that he is? Why?

According to a lot of what I am hearing, he could've gotten saved because the scripture is silent on the issue. He could have surrendered to Christ before Christ gave up the ghost. And since the scripture is silent, can we assume that it is possible that he did confess Christ? Should we not draw a conclusion based off what we read in scripture and rightfully assume that he perished? Is it arrogant to suppose that the thief is in hell?

Please answer all my questions if possible.

DeepThinker wrote:

Scriptures say we as followers of Christ we NEVER judge anthers mans judgment

Tell that to Peter who sent Annais and Sapphira to their graves for lying to the Holy Ghost, and it's written that

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:

Paul judged,

1 Corinthians 5:3-5 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

No, you just have a very limited understanding about what scripture says about judging. In the greek you have several words that all are translated into the same word in english, some judgments we do and are even commanded to do, others we are said never to do, and they are sin such judgment and are needful of repentance.

here is a summary from James Jacob Prasch, its a most edifying study to go through all these words with a concordance, interlinear bible or using e-sword. I recomend it to all of you and afterwards we all understand better when and what to judge and what not to judge.

# We never judge from our opinions.
# We are commanded to anakrino -- we always seek to discern: "Is this of God, or is it of the flesh,or of the devil?"
# We are commanded to diakrino -- to render a decision as to whether something is morally right or wrong.
# We do not krisis -- the Lord alone decides who goes to heaven and who goes to hell.
# We are sometimes appointed to krites -- but we are to remember that the Lord is the Judge of all, and we are to judge righteously.
# We never, ever, hupo-krites -- before we take a speck out of our brother's eye, we make sure we do not have the same speck in our own eye.
# We always kritikos -- we draw on the Word of God to discern between the things of the soul and the things of the spirit.

[url=http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/judge_not.htm]Full article[/url]

warriorofgod wrote:
I know that I told you all in a previous post that I would no longer be a part of this thread, but my conscience is very pricked concerning this whole ordeal and I need some clarification on something.

We know that one of thieves on the cross was saved. We know this because Jesus turned to him and told him that he was going to be in paradise with him. But what about the other thief? Is he in hell? Can we confidently say that he is? Why?

According to a lot of what I am hearing, he could've gotten saved because the scripture is silent on the issue. He could have surrendered to Christ before Christ gave up the ghost. And since the scripture is silent, can we assume that it is possible that he did confess Christ? Should we not draw a conclusion based off what we read in scripture and rightfully assume that he perished? Is it arrogant to suppose that the thief is in hell?

Please answer all my questions if possible.

can we assume that it is possible that he did confess Christ?

we can assume it, but its never good to assume anything. So we should not assume he confessed Christ unless he did so in truth. And it is obvious to us he did if he did it.

Should we not draw a conclusion based off what we read in scripture and rightfully assume that he perished?

No, again we could draw the conclusion based on scripture and what we see outwardly, but scripture tells us not to in regards to a mans eternal destination. If a man is living and a member of the body in your local church and you see fruit in his life that is not good, you can approach such a brother and speak of this and warn him. No where in scripture it says we should speculate in dead mens destiny, even when it seem obvious. "let the dead bury the dead"

Is it arrogant to suppose that the thief is in hell?

and it is a scary thing inside us that is of another spirit to call such judgments, some things are Gods alone, and when we "claim" that right the spirit in us is the same that was in satan when he wanted to be like the most high, and in one second he went from the most beautiful created being to become like satan, How long does it take for a child of God to become like satan?

should we assume every evil worker and wicked man may be in heaven? no, scripture says most will go to hell, even most who profess christ will be lost, many will strive to enter....

So what do we do? nothing, scripture is written for me personally as a mirror to my life, so i can know my destination and my own condition, God takes care of the rest, we judge ourselves now so God dont have to in the next life, so never judge anyone to heaven or hell, a saint outwardly may be a devil inside. You may pronounce him into heaven while God casts him to the deepest pit of hell. Someone may outwardly have been living like the thief but God made him right the last breaths of his life.

Just trust God and dont judge, if someone ask you "do you believe such and such is in heaven or hell?" you can say, i dont know, it would seem like his life did not display christ in any way so maybe he went to hell, but i do not know only God, and i rejoice God will do right."

anyway, just my thoughts.

God bless, dont worrie so much, God is in control, see to it that our own life is not in such a state when we die people have to speculate where we where headed for.

Some have brought forth the possibility there may or could have been a deathbed confession of repentance. We all agree what happened to the thief on the cross. This is settled. But the issue remains, is this what Michael did? We never heard of reports indicating this was the case but God only knows. Now let us leave this possibility for a moment and I would like to share something else.

On April 6, 2007 my dad had a heart attack. He had a triple by-pass done almost two years earlier, so he had 'heart trouble' in the sense he was on meds for his heart (herein lies another story but it is not germane to the issue at hand). In the forenoon of April 6 he was out in the field planting corn, came in at lunch, ate and then laid down for his after-meal nap, like he has done for many years (always took a nap as far back as I remember). Soon after, he awoke and told mom he thinks he is having a heart attack. It was very soon after that he was 'out-of-it'. There is no way in the world that he would have been capable of making a rational decision from this point on. He was totally at the mercy of others and never did speak after this point.

My point: a heart attack victim lacks the means, the strength to make such a decision. Fortunately, for Dad we have the hope that is with the LORD. But seeing him in the situation that he was in while having this heart attack and until he died, there would have been no way for him to have made a conscience decision of anything. He did not even say 'good-by' to his loved ones who were with him and that includes me.

BTW, I also saw our 25 YO daughter die. I was with her, holding her hand. She did not communicate with us for the last eight hours of her life. Her situation was different, but we were with her and she was also incapable of making any decisions...

Another story: my husband's uncle lived a very wicked life...he took ill and eventually died. His attending nurse said his death was so awful she hopes she will never witness anything like this again! EDIT: I told my DH about this thread and post and he asked me if I mentioned this? (no, I didn't.) He said that as his uncle was dying he was crying out saying that his feet are slipping into the fire.

TODAY is the day of salvation! Do Not put it off until tomorrow! Today is the tomorrow you yesterday talked about - do not forget that!

Just thought I would share this for your consideration..

ginnyrose

"TODAY is the day of salvation! Do Not put it off until tomorrow! Today is the tomorrow you yesterday talked about - do not forget that!"

This is a very important point that Jinny made because many sinners are planning on coming to the Lord on their terms, and this is a strong delusion. The bible talks about a man that had much goods and decided to eat, drink, and be merry, not realizing that his life would be required of him when he least expected it.

Some have brought up the point that only the Lord can judge whether or not a person is saved and that we do not have the right to make this judgement.

There is a righteous judgement which is not according to the seeing of the eyes but is based on the Word of God that Christians are admonished to make. We ought to be saying what God says, and not judging by our own opinions. There is an unrighteous judgement that is by the seeing of the eye, that Christians should not be making.

How are sinners going to be saved unless we preach the true gospel to them? The true gospel is designed by God so that a sinner is convicted of their sins, sees that they are lost and going to hell, and gives them the only way of salvation which is through faith in Jesus Christ.

I remember when Joel Osteen was on Larry King, and he was asked if a person was going to hell if they didn't go through Jesus to be saved. Joel Osteen replied that we cannot judge these things, because only God can judge the hearts of men. Yes, we can make a judgement because Jesus has already said that "no man can come unto the Father but through me."

The true gospel message includes the message of repentance, and sinners should not feel comfortable and secure in our churches while they are still in their sins.

Mike

As far as someone having time to repent before they die, we must remember that our Lord is not constrained by time.

While it would be foolish to count on such a thing for a last minute repentance, I do know that the Lord is able to work outside of time.

When I had my "accident" there was a very brief period when I was sliding backwards, and upside down, on the roof of my vehicle. During this period I had time to realize where I was at, understand what was happening, visualize my flesh being ground between metal and gravel, and finally - in terror - to pray.

I am convinced, however, that if I had turned to Him sooner, I would not have had to go through such a nightmare.

The greatest tragedy - it seems to me - is that when one dies people question, debate your eternal destiny. How blessed it is to have someone die and feel for certain he/she is with the LORD!!!

And it all hinges on how this life was lived and how others perceived it in light of clear teachings of the WORD.

ginnyrose

I find it interesting that this thread had over 1000 views in less than a week of Michael's death, and yet, something of eternal matter such self examination, or the Modern Gospel 95 thesis recieves no such feedback.

Which is why I believe that my experiment is proven. It was only because it was Michael Jackson is why this was a big deal. If this article were written in any other manner concerning a person of low stature, I believe this wouldn't have been talked about all that much.

"Look at the many threads that deal with Biblical doctrine, the love of Christ, or sin and you'll likely find plenty of views and contributions... much more so than this one."

Not within a weeks time.

By low stature i did mean, not famous. But i don't think knowing John Doe matters. If I built up the same article with the same content, just change the name, it probably wouldn't have been much of a fight. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't want another rabbit trail.

Everything else you said though was thought provoking. thank you

quoted by HmmHmm:
------
If a man is living and a member of the body in your local church and you see fruit in his life that is not good, you can approach such a brother and speak of this and warn him.
_____________

Amen, HmmHmm.

Brothertom,

If I were to consider a one sentence ID for Jackson

And who asked you to do that?

Why does anyone need to hear your description of this man?

Brothertom,

was a very pitiful creature in the end, with his emaciated, lipstick smeared face, sheep eyes gummed with mascara, and tiny pocked pug nose, collapsed with multiple surgeries .

Where are we told to offer descriptions of people like this in public or otherwise?

This is sick folks.

This is sick folks

Yes, the poor fellow was sick as was his father-in-law. The tragedy there is that the guy was raised in a Pentecostal church who learned to dance in a way that secular media refused to televise his hip movements because they thought it was too vulgar.

It has been my observation that those raised in Christian homes, churches - when they apostate become extremely wicked, vulgar. Want some names? How about Faye Wattleton, who headed Planned Parenthood; Adolph Hitler; Josef Stalin; and others still living - especially some who are heavily involved in the porn industry.

Brother, a prophets duty is to warn the sheep of the wolves and if he fails to do his job, God is going to hold him accountable. This is dreadfully serious because too many wolves are dressed in sheeps' clothing. And too many of these wolves have become idols to many moderns.

You understand this, don't you, Chris?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Brother, a prophets duty is to warn the sheep of the wolves and if he fails to do his job, God is going to hold him accountable.

Prophets speak for God.

Is it godly to talk about a deceased man's sexual organs?

Or nescessaary to describe him in animal like features? to warn someone? of what?

No I don't understand Ginnyrose.

Could you show me where the Lord Jesus Christ speaks about people that way?

The hebrew word sometimes translated [b]reproach[/b], other times [i]betroth[/i] is, according to Strong's Hebrew Dictionary,

H2778
חרף
châraph
khaw-raf'
A primitive root; to pull off, that is, (by implication) to expose (as by stripping); specifically to betroth (as if a surrender); figuratively to carp at, that is, defame; denominatively (from H2779) to spend the winter: - betroth, blaspheme, defy, jeopard, rail, reproach, upbraid.

This is disgraceful.

It has been my observation that those raised in Christian homes, churches - when they apostate become extremely wicked, vulgar. Want some names?

No, I don't want names. I think it would be better to offer Bible examples of this [b]same thing[/b] or something even close to it, if it is to be justified.

For instance, where the Apostles described Judas this way. Did they?

Chris,

I reread Tom's post and I do not find him describing MJ's sex organs.

Jesus described Herod as "that fox". He also called the religious leaders of the day "vipers'.

Paul also warned the church of certain false teachers by name. Can we do any less?

Do you not see how young people are being led astray by these perverts who are given the benefit of the doubt by saying 'you are being too judgemental?' These folks are being idolized by the public; this is a direct violation of the first commandment, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." And Jesus said, "Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thy heart, with all thy soul and with all thy mind..." I have never heard anyone who esteems these pop musicians declaring their love for Jesus with the same intensity as they love these entertainers. Have you?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

I reread Tom's post and I do not find him describing MJ's sex organs.

What exaclty is a transvestite Ginnyrose? What are we supposed to think of by having that word put into our minds?

Jesus described Herod as "that fox". He also called the religious leaders of the day "vipers'.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke for God.

He did not begin his sentences by saying

If I were to consider a one sentence ID for Jackson, it would be

Paul also warned the church of certain false teachers by name. Can we do any less?

Paul also spoke with God's authority. But I missed where Paul described deceased people according to their physical features in a disgraceful and denegrating way?

Did you read that somewhere that I missed it?

Who is being warned here?

I think this thread contributes nothing to the saint who is thirsting for growth and grace in God and seeking to forsake the world. SermonIndex is a [i]revival[/i] forum essentially, and an oasis for the "old path" truths of Christianity. Ask yourselves: Does this topic really contribute to this ideal?

MJ is dead, along with a hundred thousand other souls around the world who also died on June 25, 2009 and who also are in danger of the judgment. Millions of others have since died and are gnashing their teeth in darkness. This is the only thing that should concern us. Let's take the focus off the man himself - and cease being respectors of persons.

The doom of one of the world's fallen idols has no place for tabloidesque conjecture and/or inordinate attention here in the forum. I say, Let the dead bury their dead and we move on.

Thread locked.

Brother Paul