how does a new testament prophet equip the saint for work?

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,

I am seeking to understand the role of a prophet in the NT. Can anyone help define their function in the church, and how they train the saints for the work of the ministry?

thanks all, hope to hear from you all. Maybe their are some prophets on here who can shed some light

The prophet's function is to bring forth a
word from the Spirit of truth and the LORD.
Pastors and teachers do the equipping and
training of saints for ministry.

Not everyone that moves in the gift of prophecy as listed in 1Corinthians 12 is a prophet. Anyone that is filled with the Holy Spirit can be used by God in prophecy. Prophecy is not some weird mysterious thing as some have made it out to be, but is simply speaking forth the will of God for the purpose of building up the Body of Christ.

In Ephesians 4 the five offices are listed and the prophet is one of them, and through the prophetic word the saints are in the process of being equipped and perfected for the ministry that the Lord has called them to.

Mike

Prophecy is not some weird mysterious thing as some have made it out to be, but is simply speaking forth the will of God for the purpose of building up the Body of Christ.

However, this is a common misapplication of what the Biblical term "prophesy" actually means. The Greek word renders simply a "speaking forth" (pro) of the "burden of God". Therefore, if a Christian is admonishing, exhorting the people with the burden of God, he is "prophesying" in a very true sense. Whether or not the exhortation or admonishment includes mentionings of future events is irrelevant; it is purely and essentially the speaking forth of the mind and heart of God that is the qualifier.

An excellent book that explains this topic more lucidly is the Puritan William Perkins' fine treatise, "The Art of Prophesying", first published in 1592.

yes Paul, the very mention of prophet/prophecy makes many off us step back as we have witnessed so much over emphasis abuse and error.

I know God has a place for it though, and im not going to allow the pendulum to swing to the opposite extreme where i dont practice it or encourage it myself.

That books sounds very interesting, i shoul check it out. Thanks

hi mike,
do you have any specific examples of what a Prophet would do? as in practical examples.

If all the prophet does is bring forth words then why the office , as all the chritians who are not prophets can prophesy anyway.

"and through the prophetic word the saints are in the process of being equipped and perfected"

can you expound a bit more on this?

i think what im getting at is, what does a prophet "do"

thanks for your input by the way

Hope you don't mind me popping in on this discussion. There are several passages in scripture that can help you understand the role of a NT prophet. Agabus, Barnabas, Niger, Lucius, Manaen, Saul, Judas, Silas are all mentioned in the NT as being prophets. Some scriptural referenced that might be worth study are: Acts 11:27-28, Acts 13:1-4, Acts 15:32-34, Acts 21:8-11 (A note on this scripture. Agabus filled the equipping office of a prophet, the four daughters of Philip were most likely not prophets, but rather operating in the gift of prophesy given in 1 Corinthians.). Jeremiah 1:10 could be very helpful in determining God's plan for using prophets, although Jeremiah was an OT prophet. Here is some of the text from a recent class our fellowship conducted on the five fold ministry giftings. "The following are some of the functions of prophets which can be deduced from the composite of many different Scriptures. Reveal the mind of Christ and give specific instruction concerning His personal will for the lives of individuals as well as for groups. Unveil revelation and illumination and inspired application of the Logos. Give confirmation and witness in various ways through their ministry. Relate divine direction to the Church and churches. Elicit repentance, reformation, and restoration." Hope this is of some help.

hi sojourner7

you think the passage is saying, only the pastors do the equipping and teachers?

if so, dont apostles and evangelists train and equipp? Ray comfort regarding evangelism would a magor example of training and equipping.

just trying to understand this whole thing, thanks for your input.love to hear more of your thoughts

twayneb

great post, thanks, lots to think about.

yes , twayneb , did post a good one . the ? of how does anew testament prophet equip the church , is a good one . I believe apostles establish churches , and once established and set up with a pastor , prophets can come in and give devine directions to the local church , this could be to a small group of believers or to a large local body of believers . I truely believe i am called to be a prophet, so i have sought God much on my personal role in life . the role that i only come up with is to pray . Prayer , prayer prayer , which is quit enjoyable , but the only Joy that thrills me to the utmost , is to truely know that i have heard from God . The prophet gets words from God about future events , I believe the reason is to Pray about it ,and to stir the church to pray for the people in harms way, to be spared from calamity. This office also know how to preach perfectly fitted words to peoples' heart cries to God words of encouragement and exhortation to God with God and unto Perfection of Holiness and sanctification . One of my favorite scriptures is rev.19:10 , which says . " worship God , for the testimony of Jesus Is the Spirit of prophesy ," all Christians can prophesy , but i do know that all are not called to the 5 fold ministry gift of the office of a prophet. Prophets in this 5 fold ministry gift know the devine direction that the local churchs, that God sends them too , are supposed to go . They inspire the local churh ,they are sent too , with words straight from the throne room of God , to take the path that God wants them to go . This is a broad definition . Hope it helps . Most men who have ever called themselves prophets , or who hav ever been called so by others are not true prophets . I know by personal exsprerience that coming to a place of functioning in this office , is a very sobering and shut off from everything ! place of prayer.I also believe that most of , if not all of the Gifts of the Spirit function through the new testament prophet , and this is the norm for this office . . God Bless , and welcome to sermonindex . Clint .

clintstone

brilliant, this was really what i was getting at, and your answer makes a lot of sense, thankyou.

interesting what you said about the gifts of the spirit also, will have to meditate on that.

Great posts twayneb and clintstone,

If I could add something here we must not depend on so called prophets to give us direction in our personal lives because we are to have an unction from the Holy One where we are to know all things whether they be of God or not because you do not want to be following a false prophet.

We must not depend on a prophet to lead us and tell us where to go and what to do.

A prophetic word is always a word from God for the edification of the body and is to speak to the spiritual man but the spiritual man must be following the leading of God's spirit within him.

Blessings to you all!

hello rbanks , I have laid my hands on people to be healed and the virtue did not flow out of me and i knew that i needed to give them some instructions to do , so that they would be healed if they did what i instructed . But , the instructions came fro the Holy Ghost and they have did as i told them and were healed . Now as far as being led by the Spirit of God , a prophet will confirm what the Holy Spirit has already told someone . I have God give my words to ministers , at stores and resturants , and i do not know them and have never seen them before , and the words of God , I give them always fit thier situation . This makes me think who am i that you would have me speak to your servants , and i just bow down and thank Him for using me . Oh! , how I long for the day to see this vision I have to come to pass, and this vision is about Jesus transforming man into His likeness . I have had a real hard time believing God would call me to such a vision but He has , and i hope too attain unto it . The only place i know of it coming to pass is a place in the wholehearted Spirit of Prayer. This Vision of God will be found by me when i seek Him with all my heart and not let up till is see it openly . The process of the ministration of the Holy Spirit comes to pass in our lives the same way the birthing of a baby comes to pass . First we have to feel and sense an emptiness , and have a need of filling that emptiness . Second we need to become open and naked before God , everything revealed , and opened too Him. Third , we have to have the conception from Him , a vision from Him , a seed given . Forth , we have to have the gestation period , for the ideals developement ,the seeds growth inside of us . Fifth , we have to have travail , there has to be this deep need to get the seed ,the vision out , to bless the world with the conception of God that we have recieved . The ministraton of the Holy Spirit always comes through us in this way . That which is natural points to the physical. Leonard ravenhills son preached on this at the church i attended in 1991 , leonard was there too , it was a great pleasure to be there in those meetings .. I know this was off the subject but felt this would help someone here ,, God bless . Clint

[b]Doctrine[/b]

Eph 3:4-5 whereby, when ye read, ye can perceive my understanding in the mystery of Christ; which in other generations was not made known unto the sons of men, as it hath now been revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit.

The above verses clearly associate Prophets with receiving revelation directly from God, and that revelation is not necessarily regarding the future but rather doctrine.

Corinthians 13:2 the gift of prophecy is explained as "understanding all mysteries and all knowledge." A "mystery," in New Testament terminology, is a secret, something unknowable apart from direct revelation. The underlying assumption is that the gift involved special revelation.

[b]The Past[/b]

Jesus could tell the hidden past of the woman at the well, He was immediately recognized as a prophet John 4:19

[b]The Future[/b]

Agabas exercised the gift of prophecy in a predictive way: he foretold a coming famine and also Paul's coming sufferings Acts 11:27-28, Acts 21:10-11

What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message [b]you must be the message[/b]

Has anyone read Wayne Grudem's [i]The Gift of Prophecy: In the New Testament and Today?[/i]

I heard a sermon by John Piper on NT propecy wherein he compared the cessationist and charismatic views, citing Richard Gaffin who held to a cessationist position that NT prophecy was on a par in authority to scripture and thus had ceased; and Grudem whose thesis is that NT prophecy was a completely different phenomenon to biblical inspiration and thus can be operated in the church today.
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Sermons/ByDate/2004/186_Using_Our_Gifts_in_Proportion_to_Our_Faith_Part_1/]John Piper - Using Our Gifts in Proportion to Our Faith (Rom12): The Gift of Prophecy [/url]

hi MURRCOLR

good post, again some more stuff to ponder

by the way, who was the following for? me(Lydian) or someone else?

""What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message you must be the message""

If it was for me, then i should say, im an Evangelist, not a young prophet seeking counsel(although by the questions im asking it would seem like it). I asked these questions, more of a desire to understand the 5 fold roles better as i believe God is calling me to be a vessel regarding church planting in scotland (im from Peterhead by the way)
what you have said is great advice tho. The last thing we want to do is birth an "ishmael" ministry. Id rather wait many years for the promises to come than try and and make it happen.

God bless

hi intrcssr83

mite have to have a listen to the piper sermon and take a look at waynes book. cheers

his name rings a bell, is he a calvanist that wrote a book about doctrine?

Fit like, Im fae Buckie but moved hoose into the toon a few years ago.

What you need to focus on right know is your relationship with God, his Spirit will work the work in you and accomplish what needs to be done as you lay down your life. Don't be in a hurry to step into ministry as the devil has tricked many in this way. There are timings for things to be done and you must go with Gods timings because if you go in your own time you will get out from under Gods protection.

Prayer should be your main concern, you should love to pray and communicate with God.

Your life style must be Holy, you can't be one thing at church and another at home, when it's time for you to preach you must live what you preach. You can't just preach the message you must be the message

It's something God spoke to me but it's good advice for anyone and for any ministry gift regardless of the calling on your life.

A Prophet is Ordained by God not men have a look at Jeremiah this typical of what happens.

Jer 1:4-5 Now the word of Jehovah came unto me, saying. Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

A Prophet before he is sent understands the Holiness of God and the sinful condition of himself and men and God does a work of Holiness in his Prophet before he is sent.

Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

Isa 6:7 and he touched my mouth with it, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin forgiven.

Isa 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, Here am I; send me.

They will have a defined message.

Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

Also there will be a defined area of influence.

Isa 1:1 The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah.

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

When the Prophet is sent by God he will remind the People who God Jer 2:5. He will remind the people what God has done for them Jer 2:7 and he will confront the sin in the people. Jer 2:8 Jer 2:13

Repentance will be called for Jer 3:22 they will be reminded of the promises of God how he can deal with there sin Jer 4:1 If the people do not turn and repent then Judgement will come Jer 4:12.

Know you can get that to lesser degrees of prophets for example on a church level Acts 11:28 and a personnel level Acts 21:10.

But you can't just limit the Prophet to operating in only the above. Prophets reveal the mysteries that are in scripture Esp 3:5 Rev 10:7 they also are the foundation of what the church is built on Esp 2:20 They will tear down things but he will also build and plant Jer 1:10 There lifes are examples Jam 5:20 They will be driven by a deep love for God and for people 1Cor 13:2 they will walk in the more excellent way 1Cor 12:31 and will understand that way because it says in Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without variance, without hypocrisy. The Prophet a true Prophet is full of the wisdom from above. Leonard Ravenhall describes a Prophet as totally "otherworldly."

The Prophet will be misunderstood and hated Matt 23:34 and revered when he is dead Luke 11:47. They are strong Ezek 3:8 and fearless Ezek 3:9 because of the work God does in them. He is equipped by God to face the generation that he lives in Ezek 3:9 he speaks the truth if they like it or not Ezek 3:11.

by lydian on 2009/7/20 19:54:48

hi intrcssr83

mite have to have a listen to the piper sermon and take a look at waynes book. cheers

his name rings a bell, is he a calvanist that wrote a book about doctrine?

Yes, Wayne Grudem is the author of the [i]Systematic Theology[/i] textbook. Doctrinally, he can best be described as a Reformed-Charismatic: he holds to a calvinistic soteriology as well as a "Third Wave" view of spiritual gifts that C. Peter Wagner, Jack Deere, John Wimber, The Vineyard Movement, et al, are known for. An odd combo to be sure, but he's well-reputed among those on both sides.

A couple of further thoughts.

rbanks said, "If I could add something here we must not depend on so called prophets to give us direction in our personal lives because we are to have an unction from the Holy One where we are to know all things whether they be of God or not because you do not want to be following a false prophet.

We must not depend on a prophet to lead us and tell us where to go and what to do.

A prophetic word is always a word from God for the edification of the body and is to speak to the spiritual man but the spiritual man must be following the leading of God's spirit within him."

Very true! In my experience, words of prophecy have been used by God to confirm rather than to direct. Several times I have had someone operating in the gift of prophecy add confirmation to what God had already told me. In fact, if a directive word comes forth in a prophecy that is new to me, I simply file it away under the, "ponder it in my heart" category and then I seek the face of God to see what God has to say to me personally. We have a Biblical mandate to judge words of prophecy by comparing them with the more sure word of prophecy, the Word of God.

Again, I think it importatn to draw a distinction between the equipping ministry of a prophet and the gift of prophecy as outlined in 1 Corinthians. In my experience, as well as in study of the word, I find that the gift of prophecy edifies, exhorts, and comforts. A prophet, on the other hand, may sometimes have some pretty hard words for the body. Again, however, it is always to equip the body for effective ministry as stated in Ephesians. I am not so sure that the foretelling of future events is a very large part of a NT prophet's function, although I think it can happen as in Agabus foretelling what would happen to Paul if he proceeded with his planned trip to Rome.

I also agree that the term "office" can have negative connotation, especially when an immature christian goes looking for position or a sense of acceptance or approval of men by holding an "office". The five fold ministry giftings are true callings of God, and are not at all glamorous. Those called to five fold ministry need to see themselves as foundational servants to the body who are held to a higher account by God by reason of the responsibility that is given them. They are to serve the body by equipping them for ministry, which means a lot of hard work laboring in the Word, laboring in prayer, and self sacrifice in being more concerned about others than about themselves.

Have you ever heard of a lady that planted church's in whales . Her name , i believe , was Gene watkins ,or close to that . She was considered an apostle by the people of whales and she spoke at my church in Tulsa ok. in 1993 ..

Brother Tom , so very well said , brother, and only filled with truth . a most excellent post once again . I love you , God bless you and keep you ever exspanding in Him . Clint

If one is called to be in the Office of a new testament prophet , and He becomes through Holy living , chosen to attain to the office ,in Christ , then knowing future events will be a big part of that offices' gift . The one called to any five fold office is the one responsible to exalt that office , as paul declared in His words ,, " I exalt my office ," this exalting comes with knowing the authority in the office and the author of that office . Jesus said we have not because we ask not . I ask God , for everything He has put into the office He has called me to , to function in me so that i have the vision of it , and not let it be unexalted and hidden from who it is for . When i stay in a constant exspectation of God's office , He's called me too , to be revealed to me ,that is when i see it and therefore i exult what i have seen by shareing it with whoever i am supposed to . We must be willing to Go into all the world . being willing to Go , is key . it was in the going that Paul exalted His office . It was in His praying that the functions of that office were revealed to Him personally . We must ask . to me there are three great invitations of Christ Jesus our Lord and Lord of All , they are Come ,,,, Abide ,,, and ,,, ASK . I am so Happy that these have been given to us all , and that our JOY can be FULL .. Clint

sot he prophet is to equip the saints for the work

what work will the saints do?

im trying to simplify this in my head, a builder will teacher how to build, plumber will teach the apprentice to plumb,

does this pattern fit? will a prophet teach saints how to prophesy? what specific tools will a prophet put in a saints hands? is it more directing their hearts to God, or are there practical "doing" things involved?

an example would be an evangelist, he may bring a word that will convict and turn the heart to God, he may teach and enlighten the mind and understanding, he will teach people how to preach the gospel, and they will go and "do" it

lydian: The obvious answer is "to do the work of the ministry.", but I think that I am probably begging the question and not helping at all. Obviously we are all called to fulfill the work of the ministry. This work has many facets. Obviously it goes far beyond mere evangelism of the lost. To go with your example, a person whom God has called to the equipping ministry of evangelist in the body of Christ will obviously instill in the body His passion for winning the lost and be able to teach them how to effectively do this work. Just using this example it would appear that evangelists teach us how to evangelize, teachers teach us how to teach, etc. We can look closer at apostles for example. The apostle obviously does not teach the body how to be apostles. One never decides to become an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, or teacher in the sense of having the calling to equipping ministry on their life. These are God's callings on a person's life. Apostles, among other things, are gifted to identify callings on people's lives and serve to bring them into maturity and set them into those positions. They often give spiritual oversight to ministers or ministries, not in a hierarchical sense, but in the sense of a spiritual father. Teachers do not prepare the body to teach as much as they use their calling as a teacher to instill sound doctrinal foundation under the body. With this understanding of scripture, the body can minister more effectively. The following are five functions of a prophet that I think can be supported Biblically.
- Reveal the mind of Christ and give specific instructions concerning his will (note, we don't do things because "a prophet says so.", but this does not mean that prophets cannot or do not function in this capacity."
- Unveil revelation and illumination and inspired application of the Word
- Give confirmation and witness in various ways through their ministry
- Relate divine direction to the Church and churches (Again, see note above)
- Elicit repentance, reformation, and restoration
Notice that none of these things has anything to do with teaching anyone to prophecy, but provides equipping ministry in a way that is unique to a prophet. It is not like a plumber teaching how to plumb. It is more like the roll of Mother and Father in bringing a child into maturity. A mother has specific God given gifts that are different from a father. Without both imparting into a child's life, the child will grow up with imbalances and difficulties to overcome. The child needs both the gift of father and mother to come into full maturity. So it is with the church. The body of Christ needs all five of the equipping ministries to be functioning and imparting to the body to come into proper maturity. That is exactly what Eph. 4:12-16 is saying. Hope that helps.

hi twayneb,

thanks for that, that has really helped me a lot, makes a lot of sense

"It is not like a plumber teaching how to plumb. It is more like the roll of Mother and Father in bringing a child into maturity. A mother has specific God given gifts that are different from a father. Without both imparting into a child's life, the child will grow up with imbalances and difficulties to overcome. The child needs both the gift of father and mother to come into full maturity. So it is with the church. The body of Christ needs all five of the equipping ministries to be functioning and imparting to the body to come into proper maturity. That is exactly what Eph. 4:12-16 is saying. Hope that helps."

thats brilliant. i can totally see that. so the Apostle is like grandad, the teacher like dad, the prophet like mother, the evangelist like big brother(who shows you how to play ball)haha :-)

Here is a free online version of the book brother Paul mentioned;

[url=http://www.lgmarshall.org/Reformed/perkins_prophesying.html]The Art of Prophesying[/url]
William Perkins (1558-1602)

Highly recommended - In fact, it is so counterintuitive to what the modern day definition has become that it may seem almost foreign to some ears. The nomenclature used today is telling enough;

"Moving", "Releasing", even scriptural words like "Anointing" are wretched from the moors or stretched into catch phrases that elevate the "Prophet" into some kind of physic specialist that speaks forth 'words' [i]directly[/i] from the mind of God. A true elongating of the imagination and too often catered from an over-evaluated sense of self importance, if not down right spiritual pride.

Running under the modern day definition are multitudes 'speaking forth' any amount of plain gibberish, blown calls, futuristic imaginative events that never come to pass and even more rare are confessed as error when they are obviously known. The argument from the self implied titlist that can squirm out of a failed utterance by arguing scripture that a 'prophet' never has to be 100% correct - Or utilizing the span of time and forgetful memories only to return as a new version of the same old quackery ...

There is more nonsense, more deliberate and\\or unintentional fall out from this misconstruing of prophets\\prophecy\\prophesying than anything in the world of Christendom. This is now a man made and fallen man designed crossing of the wires by futile minds that hardly anyone wishes to confront. I feel that the reason for it is baked into the quasi- modern day definition - That is, that these so called prophets think they alone have some direct pipeline to God's ear that the poor minions beneath them (also an attribute that fuels their elevation) do not. So they buy up their wares, their tapes and books and run to conferences to get a 'word' about tomorrow, the state of the economy, the coming NWO, the end of the world ... the filling of their bank accounts, any notion or astral projection that their minds can create. To make it even more sporting, these things are spoken almost always in such vague vernacular as to leave the supporters defending by endless extrapolations and argument (something never left short around these parts) and the detractors burdened with excessive 'proving' of that which never had any underlying support in the first place. Who has the wherewithal to play lawyer and investigator-mediator to unravel abstract mysteries that are not of the Lord, but of mens imaginations?

All of it is due to a faulty foundation and misconstrued defention. Things stated 30 days ago, 6 months or 2 years back that never came to pass - The fear and anxiety created, the lives effected of both the gullible and sincere - Decisions made and based on foolish men giving away parts of their minds they cannot afford to lose. Never is it as simple as that account in Acts 11:28, an Agabus today would be paraded and pushed into prominence practically, rather than quietly fading into the backdrop as he did.

There is no end to the disdain I have for this and the bizarre, thoughtless pawning after mere men and now women with their 'extreme prophetic' Christianized equivalent of calling up the Physic Hotline. There is no difference, it is the exact same thing with a dose of abused scriptural vocabulary thrown in for good measure. The manipulation aspect alone enough for pages of rebuke ...

"Anything goes" is the new mantra by example more than forethought. Drunken Holy Ghost parties, stupefying manifestations and verbalized 'communications' that are completely out of character with what is known in and out from scripture. To attempt to bring it back to these foundations is to raise a cry of fowl, ill-will and hard line bible-based truths bereft of the Spirit. It's a clever twist and often a diabolical one where the mob rules, shouting down the supposed naysayers.

Trying to get a simplistic, one line sentence to this original question is something that has alluded many of us here over the years. Too many barnacles to deal with, too many voices clamoring for attention and endless 'what abouts' and 'what if' styled scenarios that often keeps us chasing our own tails. I am certain that no matter of due diligence will persuade many that what they thought was exemplary, right and true is nothing more than that unfortunate misleading that is 2Ti 4:3.

Apologize if this is seemingly out of place and a bit over the top from the original question, I don't think it will ever leave me until this version of the whole mess it has become is eradicated.

An excerpt from the book;

[b]I. THE ART OF PROPHECY[/b]

There are two parts to prophecy: preaching the Word and public prayer. For the prophet (that is, the minister of the Word) has only two duties. One is preaching the Word, and the other is praying to God in the name of the people: 'Having ... prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith' (Rom. 12:6); 'Restore the man's wife, for he is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you shall live' (Gen. 20:7). Notice that in Scripture the word 'prophecy' is used of prayer as well as of preaching: 'The sons of Asaph, of Heman, and of Jeduthun, who should prophesy with harps, stringed instruments, and cymbals' (1 Chron. 25:1); 'The prophets of Baal called on the name of Baal from morning even till noon ... And when midday was past, they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice . . .' (1 Kings 18:26, 29). Thus every prophet's [ask is to speak partly as the voice of God (in preaching), and partly as the voice of the people (in praying): 'If you take out the precious from the vile, You shall be as My mouth' (Jer. 15:19); 'And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. Then all the people answered, "Amen, Amen!"' (Neh. 8:6).

Mike,

The reason why Perkins' book goes unheeded and unread [i]en masse[/i] is because it has no charm, no allurment factor to the puerile gift-seeking believer. Christians instead want to read books that purport we obtain [i]real, visceral[/i] power through these gifts, on the manifestive level of a magician, wizard, or clairvoyant. Like Simeon the Sorceror, it must be something tangible and outward to galvanize the senses and thus foster a coveting for the "gift" - to the extent of even buying knowledge of how to obtain the gift, though books, and/or seminars. But to merely bring forth the burden of God with an unseen unction and with a low and humble spirit...well, this is not interesting, not captivating enough, for it has no outer flash or pizzaz. It does absolutely nothing to elevate the seeker in the eyes of others [i]as one who has obtained power.[/i] This is precisely the reason why prognostication and soothsaying have become intrinsically linked to the believer's definition of "prophesy". Everyone oohs and aahs when a "prophet" comes upon the scene to make a prediction and proclaim a "thus sayeth the Lord". How often, even here on SermonIndex, have we seen this sort of thing. Well-meaning believers with a wrong understanding of the gift, coming forth to issue their prophecies - unsolicited like door-to-door insurance salesmen - only to polarize the people and cause rifts. When their authority in God is questioned in any aspect, instead of humbly bowing and allowing God to vindicate their position, they vituperate in defense and thus disclose their true proximity in relation to God.

All this could be avoided if the Bible were read carefully, studiously and without the help of charismatic books, or unbiasedly as though reading the Scriptures for the first time, without any denominational lense or filter. To do a true, in-depth study on the office and gift of a prophet, as it pertains to both the Old Testament and New Testament. And, in particular, to pay close attention to the [i]context[/i] of the verse or passage each time the terms prophet and prophecy are mentioned.

An especially enlightening study would be a good look at the terms "preach" and "prophesy", as they relate to each other, and how they are used in the Greek texts. Juxtapose them, and pray the Holy Spirit open our understanding so that we avoid falling into deception on account of our lack of knowledge of the truth. Only then can we really "know the truth" on this topic, and the truth, in turn, shall set us free.

Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers are not meant to be positioned on any rung of the ladder, but rather to occupy the position below the ladder. (I don't think the "ladder" should exist at all) They are foundational servant leaders to the body of Christ. They are not "special" in respect to their calling and should not be viewed as anything other than servants who called to equip the body. This is the position Paul saw himself in, and rightly so. Romans 1:1, Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle.... Notice that he is a servant first, then called to be an apostle. Apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher are not titles, nor are they hierarchical positions. They are callings with a unique equipping function. These are not men or women who are somehow "on God's in list" to a higher degree then anyone else in the body. Stephen is never called an apostle, prophet, or anything else. He was a deacon if you want to use that term who was put in charge of the "meals on wheels" ministry to the Grecian widows so that those with the specific calling to equip could devote themselves to that calling. He was very mightily used of God and was a powerful man in the spirit. Was one calling more important than another? Possibly in function since if no one is equipped, now can the work of the ministry be accomplished. However, to view these five specific callings as some kind of elevated office or position is not, in my view, appropriate. I too am saddened when carnal men try to elevate themselves by claiming to be a "prophet" or an "apostle". These are not elevated positions, but callings for which God will definitely hold us to a higher degree of responsibility. James 3:1 (The word masters is the word didaskalos which means teacher.) Sure, we must have a leadership structure, but the one that Jesus modeled for us. Those who would be great in the kingdom (meaning there is such a thing as greatness in the kingdom) must be the servant of all.