NATIONAL HEALTH SCARE

NATIONAL HEALTH SCARE

By Rick Joyner

When I read the brief on what was contained in the National Health Care bill that is now being presented before Congress, I could not believe I was reading something that was actually being considered in the United States of America . This is not about money or government mismanagement—this is about something far more diabolical than that. As incomprehensible as it may seem, this is about euthanasia, the power to determine who lives or dies in America . Hitler and Stalin would have loved to have had a means such as this for dispatching the millions they killed—it would have made their job much easier, and probably given them the ability to kill many more than they did. THIS BILL IS THAT SINISTER. This is not a joke—this is actually the nature of what is being proposed in the National Health Care legislation, and it is the obvious reason why the Obama Administration wants to ram it through Congress before anyone gets a chance to read it.

I have resolved to always be as generous as I can toward people with opposing views of my own. I do this because I believe it is the mandate of I Corinthians 13 to always believe the best about people, rather than the worst. I know this opens me up to be misled by some, but I consider that a small price to pay to not become cynical. I also do it because I think it is wise to always try and understand the position of my opponents—to be open to consider their positions and not be too rigid or inflexible to change because we all “see in part,” and “know in part.” Because of this, I have been chided for being too generous by giving those I do challenge grace by believing that they had not thought through the consequences of their proposals, or had other good intentioned reasons for doing what they were doing. However, after reading the brief on this health care bill, I don’t see how anyone could not see that there is profound evil and evil intent at work here. I just do not see any way to be any more generous with those who proposed this bill than that. It is that bad.

This bill is obviously designed to put the authority to determine who lives and dies in America into the hands of government bureaucrats. As outrageous as that seems, it is true—you can read it yourself. It even gives the government access to all of your accounts, and the authority to make withdrawals. I know this is hard to believe, but you can read it yourself.

Do you want a government bureaucrat to determine if your mother or father can receive treatment, even in life and death cases? Would you want a government bureaucrat to determine if your child, or you, could receive treatment, even when it means life or death? Think of the best experience that you ever had working with a government bureaucrat, and then think about them having the power to make a potentially life or death choice for your child, your parents, or for you. This is actually what is being proposed.

Add to that chilling thought the fact that this bureaucrat does not have to know one thing about medicine to be in that position. In fact, this bill proposes letting the government define what quality health care is and impose that definition on health care workers. Nowhere does it even specify what training, expertise, or qualifications this all-powerful government bureaucrat has to have to be placed in the position to make such ultimate decisions for the health, well-being, and even the lives of Americans.

Am I being too hard on bureaucrats, or the Obama Administration’s intentions? Certainly there are many bureaucrats who are sincere and true public servants. I agree that such are deserving of our appreciation and respect. The modern world could not exist without them. Think of the most noble and conscientious there are. What kind of position would we be putting them in to have to go to work every day and decide who is going to get treatment, who is going to have to go on a waiting list and for how long, and who are they going to have to just let die?

Who could live with such a job? There are many who could, who would just see it as paperwork, and those are the ones who would be in that position because the truly noble ones could not endure it. Hitler found many who could dispatch thousands each day, and then go home and enjoy their own families at night. There are people with that kind of moral disconnect. These jobs will be filled and by the very ones we would never want in such positions.

It is beyond anything I thought I would ever see in my lifetime that such a bill could ever be seriously considered in the U.S. Congress. This bill has the potential for totalitarian control to be imposed on America to a degree that Hitler and Stalin could not have even imagined. With the technology available now, totalitarian control can very quickly be imposed to a degree far beyond what was attained by either the Nazis or the Communists, and this bill has provisions in it for just that. It mandates the sharing of all of your personal information, from just about every conceivable source, with the new health care bureaucracy being set up to implement this national health care system. The penalties for trying to escape this web are serious. This would actually make America into a national concentration camp, and we can be sure that ultimately it will be a national death camp. You do not have to take my word for it—read it for yourself. Below I will include a brief on this bill so that you can look it up, chapter and verse.
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Keep your eyes on Christ-and you'll be alright. Never, ever compromise your Faith. There will be many Martyrs (somewhat) soon, I believe.
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"...The section, titled “Advanced Care Planning Consultation” requires senior citizens to meet at least every 5 years with a doctor or nurse practitioner to discuss dying with dignity.

The section requires that they talk to their doctor, not a lawyer, about living wills, durable healthcare powers of attorney, hospice, etc. Given the progressive intelligentsia already being on the record in favor of euthanizing the elderly, it is no small leap to see where the Democrats are headed with this.

Legally forcing senior citizens to have “death with dignity schedules every few years is just another way to say the government wants to make sure seniors know it is time to commit suicide to save the system money.

And saving any medical system through encouraged deaths of the elderly or unborn is not a medical system worth having. The Hippocratic Oath requires doctors to “do no harm.” That’s meant toward the patient, not the costs to the government."

If this stuff does not scare the hell out of you, you are not paying close enough attention. If they are willing to make seniors die with dignity, how soon before they start forcing people to abort children who have a disability that will cost the system too much. If we hand the government the right to decide who lives and dies, where and how your medical records are kept, and what treatments people can or cannot be given, we might as well just declare a dictatorship because freedom will be dead.

Please call you senators and representative and tell them that this is not what you want in terms of healthcare reform and that you won't vote for them if they vote for this bill. Even if they are die hard Democrats the have to listen as public opinion is turning on them. Please, Please call, email or write and let your opinion be known.

I'm not going to get into the whole 'health care' thing but I will say that I've followed Joyner and he's no more credible on these issues than the typical Washington lobbyist. He's always espousing his views on a certain prophetic website. He made many bold claims about the Iraq war and even prophesied conceringing it. When it never came to be, he wrote a subsequent article explaining away his prophesy and acted as if he has 'inside information' and in-depth knowledge that the isn't in mainstream information. Basically he was using information that he thought was solid and gave a prophecy. But the info was wrong and so was he.

Joyner is an effective writer and a proficient bullet dodger. He can justify anything he does with slick chop logic. In addition, is involved in the 'restoration' of Todd Bentley and has been affiliated with Paul Cain, Bob Jones, and the other "Kansas City Prophets". He claims in one of his books that he's gone to the 3rd heaven and discusses 'his' experience as most of what was written was all about him. He also joined the Knights of Malta, a secret society with Catholic contingents. He plays down his affiliation with the Knights as being 'in the past' but, to my knowledge, has never outright condemned this past decision.

This man is not to be trusted.

"You really do not know if the Lord is using this man or not, and if so, what part of his life the Lord is using... so please beware of speaking against him (or anyone)." Lysa

I do know his history as I described some of it below and I've spoken against him and many of the Kansas City Prophets before and stand by it now. I have good reason for doing so as they have caused a lot of damage to the flock. I gave my take on the author, not the healthcare debate. I'm sure people can separate the two but I felt a need to give a little background info. I don't want to make this thread about him so you can do your own research if you would like. My mother in law gave me books, articles, took me to conferences on these people when I was a young Christian etc... and the Lord clearly showed me later about the way many of these prophets operate. Many of their teachings and prophetic experiences are far beyond scripture. This has been validated by the many sermons by Carter Conlon, Jim Cymbala and Zac Poonen's on the false Gospel and false prophets that came after this revelation. They may not mention names but they give enough details that you can figure it out. One prophet that Cymbala was talking about concerned a man whose conference I went to and he carefully laid out the extra biblical claims and dangers of such.

As to the truthfulness of statements, all I can say is some people can give true facts but still lack credibility. I'm sure Ted Haggard wrote about policy facts when he was the leader of the National Association of Evangelical's. I'm just saying in love... be careful.

I say this only about the author... there is plenty of info from many on health care and I agree with Ginnyrose on that subject alone. God is in control, he may just knock out all the props that hold us up and sustain us phycially in this healthcare system. He may use the gov't for this.. He may not. But regardless I believe it will be designed to seek Him for our hope and not gov't, doctor's, or drug companies. Like Job, in times of trouble we can either seek God or curse Him. Someday I believe God will give our 'blessed' nation that choice. How and when that could be done no one knows.

AMEN!!!!
JesusLoves and Lysa

by Rich Joyner

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The national debate on health care is rising in intensity every day. This is very encouraging—Americans are waking up, getting informed, and becoming engaged. Truth and light are the “divinely powerful weapons” that can have a much greater impact than any military force. As light has been shown on the health care bill, it is creating a remarkable awakening.

Health care is a major issue, and even though this present bill could be a disaster for the nation if it passes, almost everyone agrees that some kind of change is needed in our health care system. Currently, most of the passion is against something (and this is right); however, once this bill is stopped, let us not lose our passion, but turn it into something positive and constructive. The awakening that is taking place is an opportunity for something extraordinary to be done. There are answers to the great issues of our times. We will address some of these in future Bulletins, but for now we need to look at some issues that have been exposed by the present controversy that is in many ways much bigger than the health care bill.

One thing we do not want to do is demonize those we disagree with, even if this is happening to us. Some good is in the worst people and some bad is in the best people. Good intentions can be mixed in with the evil, and often in people’s minds those good intentions are what they justify their actions with, but the actions are still evil, and the actions are what must be stopped. Even so, let us always keep in mind that people are not our enemies, as is clear in Ephesians 6.

I can appreciate those who think my language is too incendiary in these Bulletins when I use such terms as “totalitarianism,” or when I make references to Hitler and Stalin. It is not my purpose to unnecessarily ratchet up the passions, but I do think they are relevant, and we need to understand the clear lessons of history when governments are given too much authority over people. Even so, I confess to having wondered myself if I had not gone too far in some of my statements, so I prayed for the true nature of what we’re dealing with to be revealed. My prayer was answered much faster than I was expecting. I am now much more confident than ever that I am right about the dangers I see, and I will be even more bold in my warnings. I am not angry at any person, even those I think are being used the most to do evil, rather I am praying for them.

That being said, when people have ulterior or evil motives, at some point they will always tip their hand. Conservatives, and especially Christians, are being demonized by the Obama Administration, and totalitarian control is being sought in ways that are abundantly clear. The list below includes some of the ways this has been made quite clear in the last few weeks:

1) The White House requests informants to send them the names of those who speak negatively about the health care bill. This is nothing less than an enemies list and a remarkably blatant attempt to build a culture of fear in order to stifle descent. The shock and outrage about this is just beginning, but it is already being publicly called one of the most serious threats to the freedom of speech ever.

2) The Department of Homeland Security put out the infamous memo basically declaring that all evangelical Christians, as well as a high percentage of all Christians and veterans, are potential right wing terrorists. Of course, they did not use the term “evangelical Christians,” but they said those “who believe in the biblical prophecies of the end times,” which does include virtually all evangelicals, as well as a high percentage of all other Christians. At the very least, this has to greatly disturb all Christians and cause great distrust in their present government’s intentions.

3) The U.S. holds a joint exercise with several other nations to combat terrorist attacks. The attacks they simulate are from “right wing terrorists.” Think about that. The world has suffered just one attack in history from one who could be a right-wing terrorist, Timothy McVeigh, and all the rest around the world have come from Muslim extremists, yet this whole exercise is about stopping right wing extremists.

4) Car dealers who logged into the program to apply for the “cash for clunkers” find a notice that by doing this the Federal government claims ownership of the dealer’s computers and all of its contents. The outrage about this was swift, and the Administration quickly removed it, but this is the kind of thing which reveals an obvious pattern that we have to be blind not to see.

5) Families who had car dealerships for generations had them recently canceled, only to be given to others who had no experience in the business. Claims are being made that those who lost their dealerships were Republicans, and those who received them were Democrats. I have not seen conclusive proof of this yet, but there are investigations going on, and if it proves true, it is going far beyond Chicago machine politics to being Chicago gangland politics.

6) The declaration by Nancy Pelosi that those who are so vehemently declaring their opposition to the Administration’s health care bill in town hall meetings are “un-American.” What does this say about what the Speaker thinks of the First Amendment’s right to free speech? Why did the Speaker never raise this issue when this kind of thing is done to conservatives, which have been much more frequent? Some of the protestors may have gone too far in expressing their outrage, but to call them “un-American” for exercising their basic right to free speech is over the line. To his credit, President Obama distanced himself from Speaker Pelosi’s comments, saying that “loud, boisterous descent is part of the American experience.”

7) The removal of every mention of Israel on the website of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem. There is plenty about the Palestinians and other Arab groups, which there is nothing wrong with, but to not have a single mention of Israel on the website of our embassy in Israel does say a lot. One of the basic reasons for all of the blessings we have known as a nation is because of the Lord’s promise that those who bless Abraham’s seed will be blessed. However, those who curse Abraham’s seed will be cursed. This is an ultimate issue for America, not to mention the fact that Israel has been one of the best friends that America has ever had. From one end of Israel to the other, the Jewish people wept after 9/11, while there was dancing and rejoicing in the streets of our Arab “allies.”

I do not like conspiracy theories. I have yet to see one proven true, and the only fruit that I have seen from such theories has not been good. At the very least, these make people paranoid, which is a terrible spiritual and mental bondage. As a child, I was subject to someone with extreme paranoia, and I realize this can cause me to go too far in the opposite direction, not wanting to ever see fear used to control people. However, it is more than that which compels me to think the best about people, not the worst—it a basic Christian mandate in I Corinthians 13.

I have been taken advantage of at times because of my devotion to this. However, I consider it better to have this happen, take some losses, and grow in the most basic Christian discipline of forgiveness than to become cynical, and therefore not be able to love people the way we’re called to do. This resolve has caused me to feel that it is my Christian duty to hope for the best for Obama as President. Believe it or not, I still think that is the right thing to do, and I am still resolved to do this.

I remain thankful to live in a country that would elect its leader from a minority that represented only 12 to 14 percent of the population. I was and remain grieved by the President’s stands on some social issues, but he is our President, and I sincerely wanted and prayed for his success, and I continue to do so. I do not, and have not ever thought that he was totally evil, but I do feel that he is being used to open the door to evil in our country. I have been deeply grieved by the recent Bulletins I’ve had to put out, but the evidence is too overwhelming that something is seriously awry in the Obama Administration and the very fabric of America as we know it. That America has been and can continue to be possibly the greatest nation in history is now in jeopardy.

A wonderful example of the kind of discernment that we need is found in the movie, The Fellowship of the Ring. When the hobbits meet Strider, who becomes their most faithful friend and protector, he was so hard and uncompromising that they did not like him at first. Their real enemy who had come to kill them came across much more likable. Frodo had a great revelation. In his words, Strider “seemed foul but feels fair,” but the other, who was indeed the enemy, “seems fair but feels foul.” For all of the Obama Administration’s talk of how they want to help everyone, provide health care for all, which may indeed be a goal, and then they also say taxes are not going to go up and they are just having to fix the mess that they were left with—it is feeling more and more foul. We don’t have to go on feelings. We now have proof.

I hate to keep bringing this up, but how about all of the lies we have already been told? Remember the one about there not being one single earmark in this bill? There were over 8,000 earmarks in that bill! How about, “The federal government is not going to go into the car business.” You have to be beyond stupid to not see that owning 60 percent of General Motors is being in the car business. How about the promise that he would do everything in the daylight and that he would never sign a bill that had not been posted on the government website long enough for us to read and comment on it? He has not even wanted to give Congress enough time to read these bills! Obama made all of these statements with a straight face looking right into the camera. Are we now supposed to believe him when he looks in the camera and tells us that there is nothing in the health care bill about euthanasia? Can we believe anything he’s telling us now? Does he really think America is that slow or naïve? The wakeup that is now going on in America is evidence that the American people are far more astute than they are being given credit for.

I can’t blame America for voting for Obama. He is likeable, with a wonderful, lovable family. I really wanted to vote for our first black President, but could not because of his stand on some issues that I cannot compromise, but I was very proud to be an American on Inauguration Day. I think it will always deserve to be one of the great days in American history. Even so, we have to be the most naïve on the planet to continue believing in the change he is trying to impose on America. Change is needed, but not all change is good, and we’re headed to a terrible conclusion if we keep going the way we’ve gone under this Administration.

Our most basic and cherished freedoms are being threatened. We should be thankful that many more people are waking up to this every day. What grieves me the most is that the evidence is quite overwhelming that this is being done in a planned, calculated way. I studied Marxism for a few years, and was a Marxist for a time before I became a Christian. I turned away from it even before my conversion to Christ because I could see that its idealism did not match practical reality. However, I can quickly recognize the basic Marxist strategy to use crises to seize control. I am not ready to call Obama a Marxist, but he is most definitely a socialist, and there are startling similarities between the Marxist playbook and the one that is being used by this Administration to gain increasing control of the American people.

It is hard not to become fearful, or angry, but we must resolve that we are not going to do either. However, neither can we stop warning the people if we are going to be faithful watchmen or do all that we can to protect the people we’ve been entrusted to watch over.

It was shocking to discover that when the Soviet Union fell, the KGB never considered the CIA their true counterpart, but rather the IRS. They felt that it was the IRS that had the real control over the people. Provisions are in almost every piece of legislation now being promoted for totalitarian type control. By speaking out the way I am, I have no doubt made myself a target, but I resolved a long time ago that I would rather be falsely charged and go to prison rather than see my country become a prison. It is most encouraging to see so many others obviously resolving to do the same. It would be better to die than to see my children, or their children, have to live under a totalitarian regime. The evidence is becoming more clear daily that this is what we are threatened by.

Too many have paid a dear price for us over the last two and a half centuries to let all that they sacrificed be lost on our watch. Seeing the way that Americans are waking up and standing up against this health care bill is giving me increasing confidence that it will not happen. However, there are many who still must wake up and stand, if we are going to be able to draw back from the precipice we are now tottering over.

As stated, this health care bill actually goes beyond totalitarian control and could prove to be life or death for many Americans, especially the elderly. I don’t think there is doubt in anyone’s mind who has studied the bill and who knows about health care, that rationing would happen fast, if not immediately after this bill is passed. The simple math establishes this—the present health care system is already stretched too thin, and millions more will be added to the system immediately. We also have the factor that if its “free,” why won’t everyone go to the doctor for every little thing, which they probably would not do now because they have to pay for it. Just from a management standpoint, this bill is so terribly designed and badly thought out as to its consequences that it might actually cause the collapse of the whole system quickly. Through this crisis, we may be looking at the ultimate form of controlling people, which the present Administration is obviously trying to do in many ways. This has to be stopped.

If the government is having a hard time managing the “cash for clunkers” program, how does anyone think they are going to be able to manage something as complex as the health care system? I think it would be a much better idea to have the health care system take over the government. As bad as health care needs correcting, it is now run much better than the government is. Just the thought of all of our doctors, nurses, and health care professionals becoming government employees should have us crying, “NO! THIS CANNOT HAPPEN!”

Again, very few people are saying that the health care system does not need change, and even some profound changes, but not all change is good. It is encouraging that Americans are standing up and letting their voices be heard. I can understand the outrage and anger many are feeling, but as Christians, we must not let anger control us. Satan will not cast out Satan. Rage will never cast out evil. We should treat all people with dignity and respect, especially those who are in authority. We must also keep in mind that in America, the government is supposed to be “of the people, by the people, and for the people,” so we are the ultimate authority and should be treated with dignity and respect too. This should start with telling us the truth.

We must stand up for truth with the resolve to never compromise. We cannot overcome evil with evil, but we can overcome evil with good. As I have quoted often, “If you do not change your direction, you will end up where you are headed.” Support of the Obama Administration is melting away quickly, possibly faster than any previous Administration. Without major changes in direction, the Obama Administration will likely be considered one of the worst in recent times, if not the worst ever. My prayer, and my ultimate hope, is that change comes to Obama first and he does become one of our great Presidents.

Before I became a Christian I consider myself to have been far worse, prone to evil in every way, and an antichrist, but the Lord had mercy on me. My whole perspective on everything changed when I was born again, and that is my prayer for all who are in darkness. I earnestly pray for that same mercy and grace to come upon Obama, but I will also not cease to sound the alarm at the unprecedented dangers I see. I am not doing this in anger at anyone because I don’t think that any person is our enemy, but as we are told in Ephesians 6:12:

Rick Joyner has just as much credibility as
Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland,
Doc Schuller, Mr Dollar and the myriads of $preachers on TBN.

Paranoia and fear are on the rise and the crazy gun toting people are on the move. If I had to sum up the anti health care reform movement it would be "fear." And the issue is clouded by vitriol and nonsense. Now the catchphrase of the day is " do you want the government between you and your doctor?" and the obvious answer is no. And yet, in this crazy time of people screaming and bringing guns to town hall meetings, the plain facts are some how lost. What is the plain fact? Right now its the insurance company that stands between you and your doctor. The same insurance companies that have funded the genocide of Down Syndrome babies. Here is a fact for all you guys out there who love the present system and do not want things to change. The average cost of a "regular birth," is about $8000-$10,000. In the first year of life a Down Syndrome child can easily cost $100,000. So, the death panels which is the insuarance companies, funded research into better and more accurate tests to identify Down Syndrome in the womb. Now 92% of all Down Syndrom children, identified as such in the womb, are aborted. A recent bill that would force doctors to say something positive about Down Syndrome when telling parents that their coming child had Down Syndrome, failed to pass. Lobbyist for the insurance companies saw to that. It makes me nautious to see people who call themslves Christians, fighting to keep these guys in charge of the system, just because they themselves have good insurance right now. If Jesus was to come right now and re tell the good Samaritan parrable, I wonder who would represent the priest, who would be the Levite and who would be the Samaritan today?........Frank

Mat 25:41 Then He also shall say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry, and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave Me no drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in; I was naked, and you did not clothe Me; I was sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.
Mat 25:44 Then they will also answer Him, saying, Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to You?
Mat 25:45 Then He shall answer them, saying, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

Drop all the fear about the "health care" noise thats been dominating the popular press. Saints, you have to be really careful about seizing onto what the "issue de jour" of the moment is. It's almost like mind control, pulling one this way or that way, sowing fear....anyway, here's a very good article, thoughtful, written about the coming second wave of this economic cycle. Now mind you, this has nothing to do about the Faith, rather I categorize under the "shrewd as snakes" admonition:

[url=http://rockcreekfreepress.tumblr.com/post/153948922/the-second-wave-of-the-depression-hyperinflation]The Second Wave of the Depression" Hyperinflation[/url]

Yes well Natan4Jesus, the Healthcare debate deals primarily with what your article about secondwave deals with.

if this bill passes into law in it's current state the deficit will explode even more and put more pressure on the value of the dollar.

So this isn't an "issue de jour" of the moment, rather a very prime issue. This is a moment where there is increasing unity in America in opposing another bill that will devalue the dollar,and devalue life.

"Drop all the fear about the "health care" noise thats been dominating the popular press. Saints, you have to be really careful about seizing onto what the "issue de jour" of the moment is." natan

Amen.

Less activism, more prayer. This could be why we are where we are. The church has tried to control politics for two decades and in the process forgot the prayer closet. During this time the church has always wanted to be seen and heard and they have been....by the world... and in doing so we have exposed ourselves in rampant hypocrisy that no one really wants to be a part of and rightfully so. When people see church leaders hob-nobbing with powerful politicians and leaders of industry they know full well who the church is in bed with. Mix a little iron and clay and you simply have a stick that can do nothing but point. Christ is cheapened and trampled upon when we go our own way, and even the unsaved can see this. The American church needs fixed before our gov't. The world is usually not surprised when gov't fails... and now sadly people are no longer surprised when they see the church take moral and political stands only to get caught with our hands in the cookie jar of immorality, lukewarmness, prosperity, and power. Peter says we're peculiar but you wouldn't know it in this country, we involve ourselves in practically everything the world finds etertaining and important.

"So this isn't an "issue de jour" of the moment, rather a very prime issue. This is a moment where there is increasing unity in America in opposing another bill that will devalue the dollar,and devalue life." thingsabove

If the implication is that a devaluing dollar devalues life and this is the simple correlation then I don't know why I'm a Christian. Paul's contentment had nothing to do with money. Peter's power wasn't in gold and silver. Jesus didn't send the disciples out with bags full of shekels. Regardless of how we see the issues, we need to prepare for hard times because He may just take away that life giving dollar.

Amen CC. I am so tired of being around people who spend their whole lives fearful of one thing or another. "Perfect love casts out all fear." We are to be "anxious for nothing, but in everthing by prayer and supplication and thanksgiving make your requests known to God and the peace of God which surpasses understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." So we see we are to be anxious for "nothing." If you look up the Greek, what does the word "nothing," mean? Hmmmm, ah yes, it means nothing. And we are to be in prayer and supplication and thansgiving for some things, oh im sorry, for everything :) What else does Jesus teach us not to be anxious for? Lets see......
1.We are not to be anxous about tomorrow Mat 6:34

2.Clothes

3. Food

4. Life itself. Luke 12:22

5. And just in case we miss the point, the Holy Spirit gives this command, not a suggestion "Do not be anxious about anything." Php 4:6

Can I suggest that if you have been anxious about the above mentioned issues, that you repent of your unbelief, your sin of anxiousness. When you are anxious you are saying that God is not enough. You are saying that you have not been bought with a price and that you are not a servant of the most High God. Instead of living in fear, a better idea would be to consider the lillies of the field. That would not be sinful and that would not be a bad witness to a world that is dying and lost and overwhelmed by anxiousness and fear. Let the people of God follow HIs commands and let us be a pecular people..........Frank

Yes in regards to the "devalueing life" part of my statement.
When a person or nation takes on debt they cannot pay back it devalues us in many ways.

Some people who can't buy things because of the hyperinflation that results will be tempted to steal and possibly kill for what they need.

It puts us in bondage to ungodly rulers both domestic and foriegn that can come in and take and leave us even more the slave.

The current health care bill contain more money and laws for abortion on demand. This devalues life of children and mothers and country.

So certain laws or potential laws should be opposed by those who see them to hurt our country. Many unsaved as well as savedsee this as harmfull to our country.

"Some people who can't buy things because of the hyperinflation that results will be tempted to steal and possibly kill for what they need.

It puts us in bondage to ungodly rulers both domestic and foriegn that can come in and take and leave us even more the slave." thingsabove

Sounds familiar.... alot like God's biblical judgment on a two-bit wayward church???

And the CHURCH problems of rampant immorality and hypocrisy will be resolved how??? By town hall meetings, protests, and petition signings? This will make our church more righteous, this will solve the abortion problem. If this is the case then we should have had this thing licked years ago as there has been no shortage of this activity by the church over the past two decades. Arrange a protest rally at a gay pride parade and you'll get thousands on the streets with their 'turn or burn' signs. But organize a prayer vigil on the same street for the conversion of homosexuals to repentence and Christ and see how many you get. Same ole story, same ole solution, same ole results. The subsequent 'head scratching' when things just don't seem to work out becomes fodder for the enemy himself. The problem isn't whether the saved and unsaved oppose something harmful to our country, the problem is the Church blames everyone but itself for it's own problems. The problem lies in not wondering why God is allowing these things to happen. Do we run to Him in the confines of vigilant prayer or we run to the blogosphere or the local Rep. or the next Town Hall meeting?? The answer to that may give insight as to why we are where we are. The gov't is such an easy and convenient target for the ills of the church, which can be perplexing given the amount of enmeshment and back door deals between the two... facilitated in some regards by the former.

This could very well then be the necessary consequence of a wayward church. Why did God put Israel under judgment to ungodly rulers??? Why did He send them into the bondage of Babylon??? Why did God allow Rome to bludgeon the new christian church?? Because they looked too much like the world.... because they yoked themselves to ungodly rulers (yes WE have many of them... they're called 'politicians').... because they thought they were in need of nothing. What was Solomon in need of with his global marketplace... making money in trading with ungodly nations which made everyone so abundant that there was little need for God?? And was he not led away from God like many in the so-called mainstream church today.

How about now? China, Russia, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, and other countries with questionable to dismal morals whether it be abortion, infanticide, child sex slavery or anything else are financing our interests and facilitating our abundance. When it comes to other countries devaluation of life that's fine... just keep that dollar strong, keep us afloat. When I look at Solomon I see our nation. Wisdom and Godliness in our youth and haughtiness in abundance and prosperity to the point where we forget about Godly faith in the latter days.

I didn't say the "church" problems would be resolved this way. hmmm..

ccrider your post comes across to me as very bitter and tunnel visioned. I know you may get offended by that but thats how you are coming across to me. Now others on here may agree more with you.

So anywhoo onward we go iron sharpening iron, wisdom in a multitude of counsolers etc.
God bless

"I didn't say the "church" problems would be resolved this way"--things

I'm sorry I never meant to imply you said this, I was expounding on my prior post that the church needs fixed first before we can expect any Godly change. My point was simply that the church needs to recognize it's involvement with the problems we face by understanding that we put too much emphasis on fleshly opposition and not enough on prayer and biblical mandates. I'm not against opposition but it lacks power if the opposition itself outweighs our righteous pleas to Him, which I think happens a lot.

If I come across bitter I apologize. I sometimes react with emphasis not bitterness.

cc-

O.k., I like the way you summarized that. I would like to say I agree whole heartedly with your summary. I think you have the right order of the way it should be. I couldn't have said it better myself.

That is the way it should be; yet even as we pursue the proper order for effecting true biblical change sometimes we will fall short as the church and definetly as a nation.

Again God bless you ccrider thanks for the post!

Amen. What is most important in our lives is Jesus. As in Gen 15 , He is our primary reward. Our walk with HIm is all important.Worldly affairs are a poor second to Him. When the world looks at us, they should see Jesus..........Frank

Amen Ginny, and just to emphasise, not one genuine Christian leaves this planet one second before the Lord deems it. We are His servants, He determines our steps, not the devil or any disease. If He has a 30 year plan for us, then that will come to pass, and there is not a power in the universe can change that. We have to embrace His will for our lives, once we learn that and yield and surrender our lives to Him, then all the fear is gone, whether of disease or dying or a roof over our heads or food on our tables or clothes on our backs. Oh that Christians would embrace the Lordship and the promises of our God and stop trying to wake Him up with shouts of "the boat is sinking, the storm is going to kill us." Oh ye of little faith indeed...........Frank

Hi Mike,

I noticed many years ago, that any of talk of politics almost immediately quenched the Spirit. You see, the Spirit unifies and politics divides. Hence my stance of non-involvement generaly speaking(I am not against voting) I am more interested in the topics of fear, and anxiousness as sin. No matter one's stance on any issue, if their is fear and anxiousness or bitterness or no love, then that one is in sin and needs to repent.
Just for the record, when I say non-involvement I do not mean not standing up for Christ and Christ alone as one is led by the Spirit. One day soon , when real persecution comes, we will be deeply involved :) I think we will see a lot less people then "standing up," when they are stripped of all their "rights," and when death will follow for standing up, much like the early church who would refuse to come into the town square, dip their hands in oil and acknowkledge Caesur as a God.......Frank

Dear Ginnyrose, I love your yieldedness. I too have lost a child, and then my second son was burned over 60% of his body and m,y third child has Down Syndrome. I was also told that I would die when diagnosed with Pulmanory fibrosis and a third of each lung covered with "irreversable," fibrosis. Well, God is in charge of all things and He is a good God full of loving-kindness. I was ready to die but He had other plans I guess :) There is so much peace in the midst of the storm when you can lay down in the palm of His hand and no that nothing can happen to you outside of His will. Think about the Scripture below, how often is the last part not quoted, yet it is one of the keys to an abundant life in Christ........Frank

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul until death.

August 14, 2009
Op-Ed Columnist
Republican Death Trip
By PAUL KRUGMAN
“I am in this race because I don’t want to see us spend the next year re-fighting the Washington battles of the 1990s. I don’t want to pit Blue America against Red America; I want to lead a United States of America.” So declared Barack Obama in November 2007, making the case that Democrats should nominate him, rather than one of his rivals, because he could free the nation from the bitter partisanship of the past.

Some of us were skeptical. A couple of months after Mr. Obama gave that speech, I warned that his vision of a “different kind of politics” was a vain hope, that any Democrat who made it to the White House would face “an unending procession of wild charges and fake scandals, dutifully given credence by major media organizations that somehow can’t bring themselves to declare the accusations unequivocally false.”

So, how’s it going?

Sure enough, President Obama is now facing the same kind of opposition that President Bill Clinton had to deal with: an enraged right that denies the legitimacy of his presidency, that eagerly seizes on every wild rumor manufactured by the right-wing media complex.

This opposition cannot be appeased. Some pundits claim that Mr. Obama has polarized the country by following too liberal an agenda. But the truth is that the attacks on the president have no relationship to anything he is actually doing or proposing.

Right now, the charge that’s gaining the most traction is the claim that health care reform will create “death panels” (in Sarah Palin’s words) that will shuffle the elderly and others off to an early grave. It’s a complete fabrication, of course. The provision requiring that Medicare pay for voluntary end-of-life counseling was introduced by Senator Johnny Isakson, Republican — yes, Republican — of Georgia, who says that it’s “nuts” to claim that it has anything to do with euthanasia.

And not long ago, some of the most enthusiastic peddlers of the euthanasia smear, including Newt Gingrich, the former speaker of the House, and Mrs. Palin herself, were all for “advance directives” for medical care in the event that you are incapacitated or comatose. That’s exactly what was being proposed — and has now, in the face of all the hysteria, been dropped from the bill.

Yet the smear continues to spread. And as the example of Mr. Gingrich shows, it’s not a fringe phenomenon: Senior G.O.P. figures, including so-called moderates, have endorsed the lie.

Senator Chuck Grassley, Republican of Iowa, is one of these supposed moderates. I’m not sure where his centrist reputation comes from — he did, after all, compare critics of the Bush tax cuts to Hitler. But in any case, his role in the health care debate has been flat-out despicable.

Last week, Mr. Grassley claimed that his colleague Ted Kennedy’s brain tumor wouldn’t have been treated properly in other countries because they prefer to “spend money on people who can contribute more to the economy.” This week, he told an audience that “you have every right to fear,” that we “should not have a government-run plan to decide when to pull the plug on grandma.”

Again, that’s what a supposedly centrist Republican, a member of the Gang of Six trying to devise a bipartisan health plan, sounds like.

So much, then, for Mr. Obama’s dream of moving beyond divisive politics. The truth is that the factors that made politics so ugly in the Clinton years — the paranoia of a significant minority of Americans and the cynical willingness of leading Republicans to cater to that paranoia — are as strong as ever. In fact, the situation may be even worse than it was in the 1990s because the collapse of the Bush administration has left the G.O.P. with no real leaders other than Rush Limbaugh.

The question now is how Mr. Obama will deal with the death of his postpartisan dream.

So far, at least, the Obama administration’s response to the outpouring of hate on the right has had a deer-in-the-headlights quality. It’s as if officials still can’t wrap their minds around the fact that things like this can happen to people who aren’t named Clinton, as if they keep expecting the nonsense to just go away.

What, then, should Mr. Obama do? It would certainly help if he gave clearer and more concise explanations of his health care plan. To be fair, he’s gotten much better at that over the past couple of weeks.

What’s still missing, however, is a sense of passion and outrage — passion for the goal of ensuring that every American gets the health care he or she needs, outrage at the lies and fear-mongering that are being used to block that goal.

So can Mr. Obama, who can be so eloquent when delivering a message of uplift, rise to the challenge of unreasoning, unappeasable opposition? Only time will tell.

Most countries have universal health care. The United States should have done this years ago, being the richest country in the world, yet the poorest of the poor can't even get the proper care because he doesn't have any money. Cuba being a poor nation takes care of their own. France and Britain and Canada all have universal health care, and they three are democratic. In other countries like Norway and Croatia they pay a tax rate of 20% a year which includes their healthcare.

Health Insurance companies will not be eliminated, they still will be needed as not all treatments will be covered. Basic health coverage is the aim of the Obama Administration. Every U.S. citizen should be cared for by the state regardless if they have any money or not. The United States needs to look after their own people before they try to feed and clothe another country.

HOWEVER, This is the wrong time to spend billions of dollars into a sinking ship. Obama is spending money that is being printed without any commodities to back it up, and it's money they've gotten from China and the Saudi's. The Chinese have invested Billions of dollars into the U.S. Treasury Bonds and the Chinese government is telling Obama to spend it wisely, because if the U.S. lose they lose and they will come knocking at the White House doors looking for compensation.

I may be the most vocal opponent of Christians being involved in politics on sermonindex. I have never cared about the name calling and the crazy stuff either, I just try and speak the truth in love. I am unapologetic about my stance. I just wanted to defend Neil againt the chrage by rainydaygirl. There are countless professing Christians getting caught up in a vortex of hate, fear, paranoia, bitterness and down-right craziness. The article Neil possted is correct. As a Christian online at that time I would get multiple e-mails everyday about one conspiracy theory or another. The most popular one at the time was the Clinton was a mass murderer and had personally gave the nod to kill 21 people. It was amazing to see how many professing Christians checked their brains at the door and bought into this whacko story. And the sad thing? They bought into it because of ther underlying philosophical point of view, it had nothing to do with Jesus. They were willing to accept, without reason, any negative story about "the other side."

So, I warn genuine Christians, not religious people because nothing will deter them, keep away from the Rush Limbaugh hatred and bitterness. It is anti-christ. It is designed to alienate you from your "enemies." We already know how Jesus told us to act towards our enemies. Follow the commands of Jesus, follow the leading of the Holy Spirit, do not follow men like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter, they are hate-mongers and they make millions of dollors from being hate mongers. They are invested, not in the truth or love, but in bitterness and divisivness. That is why people tune into their shows or buy their books. Follow Jesus and His Word and that alone, and let the world detroy intself, let us be apart from the world, sanctified unto God, walking in love and holiness, a peculiar people........Frank

HI rdg,

I appreciate and accept that. Keeping our focus on Jesus is going to become more and more important in the coming times of persecution. Just a reminder to anyone caught up in this tidal wave of fear and paranoia, God is in charge of the future, not man. Our focus, as children of God is to stay close to HIm and remain in His presence, to walk in love and be salt and light to the world. It is vital that we do not lose our saltiness ortherwise we will be good for nothing. That is why 1Cor 13 goes to extremen lengths to show us how important it is to remain in love. Even if we give our bodies to be burned, and we do not have love, we have nothing, that is a staggering truth and it is the measure of our walk with God..........Frank

"You slammed President Bush during his administration. You shouldn't be saying one thing and then turning around and doing the opposite."

HI Mike. The Lord gave me several words about President Bush over the years,many of which I shared on sermonindex. The first word He gave me was right after he got in office and the Lord whispered into my heart "I am going to expose hypocrisy."

Many Christians, including yourself I believe, believed that President Bush was a genuine Chrisitan. I spoke out on this subject many times. If you want to conpare that to Rush Limbaugh or Hannity or Coulter, that is fine. My interests in President Bush had nothing to do with politics. I am not a Democrat. Yet, the lives of millions of Christians were being ruined, in my opinion, by being sucked into politics and by being used and abused by politicians whose only interest were power and how they could get it or keep it. And if they had to manipulate Christians to do it, then that is exactly what they did. I stand by that Mike. I stand by the fact that most people support politicains based on a philosophical position and then try to spiritualize it. I can stand before any crowd, and say with an open heart, that I have no hatred, paranoia, bitterness or anger towards anyone simply because they are a Democrat or a Republican. A genuine Christian is going to follow the Truth, no matter where it leads them. It does not matter to me that within weeks of getting out of office that President Bush announced that he did not take the Bible literaly, it just saddened me that many people had been fooled by it. None of this has anything to do with politics,it has everything to do with a man making public claims about Christianity. I would comment on that just as I would comment on peddlers of the Gospel or name it and claimers or Todd Bentley. Often times we are called to speak the truth, even when it is highly unpopular, and believe me I lost quite a few friends over my stance on President Bush. Yet, who am I going to follow? The crowd? Nope, never going to do it. I am going to follow the Word of God and that still small voice even if I lose every friend and my reputation in the process. Its not about being popular Mike, its about standing upon the Word of God. And the Word of God tells us how to deal with our enemies and i reiterate, if you re listening to hatemnongers and dividers every day, you are sinning against the Word of God...........Frank

Just for anyone that is interested. Mike made a claim that I had "slammed," President bush. He gave no quotes and yet made the charge, in essence,that I am a hypocrite. That's not a big problem :) One has to expect those kinds of charges. Just wanted everyone to know, that every article that I have ever posted on semonindex can be found at my website below.........Frank

Hi Cccchhhhriisssss

It was not abideinhim who made those comments, it was me :) And of course I stand by them, not as hearsay or libel but as someone who has heard them over years. In fact I have a piece on them on my website. http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/time-for-christians-to-reject-limbaugh-hannity-and-coulter/

This was also posted on sermonindex. And in my limited opinion I agree with your final statement, which is kind of the point of the whole thing :)

"I agree with those who have said that we should not fear. As believers, the "worst" that can happen to us is death (or the death of a loved one). However, death is still a victory! To live is Christ and to die is GAIN!"

Amen brother, now we just have to start walking that out so the world can see something different, something peculiar......Frank

Sister, I'm not "caught up in politics" as you say, I posted an op-ed piece from the NY Times, thats all. I didnt opine on it, I didnt hyperventilate, just posted it up, thats all. I wrote you a long post last night, only to hit the "submit" button and to see that SI was down, and my post was absorbed into the ether...oh well, ....y'know at one time I ministered to the homeless men in my district, and part of that included taking them to the emergency room for such basic stuff and sinus infections, I've sat in packed emergency rooms with them for anywhere between 8 to 12 hours, just to be seen. A waiting room packed to the gills with very sick people, you could see the pain on their faces, many, too many, of them children. Now if there are believers on this forum who feel comfortable as Americans AND as followers of Jesus with that kind of set-up, so be it, as we are all working out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but there is going to come a day when they be's a knocking calling out "Lord, Lord", and God only knows what they will hear in return...read Matthew 25, and dont buy into this whole crock of a dividing line between "social" Gospel and "salvation" Gospel, there is One Gospel, One Word, One Jesus, One God, and He sees all.

Its funny, not hah ha funny, but ironic how bills to fund an ill advised, ill thought out murderous war pass wityh nary a peep, to the tune of trillions of dollars, but when it comes to taking care of our own, watch out, plenty of shrill rhetoric, and a plateful of lies, thats not politics, thats just common sense illuminating hypocrisy, and like Frank said, to think that the Church would wed itself to the likes of Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter, a pair of godless hellions I ever heard, is beyond me. Those two, my very soul fears for them, because if they dont quit worshipping the golden calf with their patented palaber, Lord have mercy, they will both split hell wide open when they give up their mortal coil.

ok, thats enough. If the legislature passes health care reform, fine, if it doesnt, fine...the die has already been cast on my motherland, America.

you didnt offend me [b]at all![/b] I'm resigned to whatever hell, man or the devil reigns on earth, and its coming, [b]but[/b]so will Jesus Messiah.

this might seem strange, but you know what I pray for?, that the powers of this age, make Christianity/Judaism illegal, that they make assembling in worship illegal, and that they make ownership of the Bible illegal....all at the penalty of death.

then....you watch the Church grow, those will be glorious days....oh yes, they will be very tough nasty days where the blood of the saints will flow, and many tears will be shed, but they will birth a Church of Apostolic Glory, the devil, satan, abaddon, the destroyer, whatever one calls him, may be cunning, but in reality he is stupid, he always overplays his hand, his destruction is nearing.

Our God is a consuming Fire, this I know.

One day in the Heavenly Jerusalem, my sister, one day, that is our Glorious Hope.

in Jesus love, neil