They were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God Boldly

Greetings appolus:

I find it most unfortunate that being filled with the Holy Ghost has undergone a metamorphesis over the centuries. This is do to the dead theological traditions of well-known and celebrated men by which entire denominations have cropped up around. These denominations serve to perpetuate this deadness until this very hour and as a result has successfully robbed the people of God of what belongs to them TODAY. The New Covenant is still in force today. When I say, New Covenant, I mean ALL of it with no part of it "ceasing" at anytime since the birth of the New Testament Church. It seems to me that many have only gone as far as the Reformation in their theological understanding and experience. While many wonderful things were accomplished by the Reformation, and many of the precious truths of the Faith restored, the Reformation did not go far enough to restore to the Church ALL of the New Testament. It seems that as far as the personal experiences of "the Reformers" is as far the Reformation went and no further. I believe that whatever and to what extent of thier personal experiences in Christ was assumed as the whole, and if anything they read in the New Testament was missing in thier lives, it was convienently taught that those elements of the Faith "ceased" with the Apostles, or the canonization of Holy Writ. Most unfortunate.
When it comes to being filled with the Holy Ghost, or being baptized in the Holy Ghost we must look to the New Testament Church as given in God's inspired word. The book of Acts is God's blueprint for all the Church of Jesus Christ for the entire Church age, and no man (no matter how popular, famous, well-known, celebrated, venerated, etc.) has the authority whatsoever to change what God Almighty has ordained.
Remember, the true Church of God is build upon the Apostles and Prophets of the Holy Bible, not on celebrated preachers of the past, or present-day denominations and theological traditions of religious men. I say this because some have look at many a godly men of Church history and have observed their ministries, and have basically said to themselves in so many words, "Well, look at brother so-and-so and how God greatly used them in revival and they were never baptized in the Holy Ghost, nor were they ever really used in the gifts of the Spirit as reported in the New Testament. So it must be true that God does not pour out the gifts of the Spirit upon the Church of today. If this were so, would not these great men have been used in the gifts? So all of the gifts must have ceased with the Apostles or the canonization of the Bible."
Let me encourage every believer to be thankful for the salvation afforded us in the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ at the cross. But let me go further to encourage you appolus and all others who may read this and have not been baptized in the Holy Ghost not to be satified with anything less than a New Testament experience. Ask your heavenly Father for the enduement of power from on high. Ask in faith and Jesus will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. The initial physical evidence that always attends this experience according to the book of Acts is that you will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. This is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel and the apostle Peter on the day of pentecost. This promise of the fullness of the Spirit is for every precious saint of God. This may cause some problems in your home denomination who are decieved into thinking that such is a thing of the passed. If you are a minister in some of these denominations this will probably get you the left foot of fellowship, but, praise God, it is worth it. This has always been a sign spoken agianst from the very beginning, but don't let what men think prevent you from recieving. Search the scriptures and ask God to reveal to you if this is for the Church today, and when you are convinced that it is, refuse to live without being endued with power from on high. Hallelujah!!!

[i][b][color=FF0000]"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith GOD, I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: and on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy." [/color][/b][/i] Acts 2:17-18.

"God is there and He is not silent." - Francis Schaefer

Greetings appolus:

I did not say that everyone that has been baptized in the Holy Ghost has the gift of tongues. I said that THE INITIAL physical evidence is that the believe will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. This was the case in every instance where this took place in the book of Acts, and it will always be the case whenever a child of God is truely baptized in the Holy Ghost. Though speaking in tongues is the INITIAL evidence given by God himself that one has been truely baptized in the Holy Ghost, this does not mean that this particular gift will remain with the recipient. In most who recieve this seem to be the case, but not all. One thing is for certain, there should be a manifestation of the Spirit by way of whatever the gift given to the child of God at different times. This is in accord with the teaching of the Bible and the New Testament in particular.
My own personal testamony of being baptized in the Holy Ghost happened to me when I was a young man living on the streets in the city of my birth. I had no place to live at the time (I was 17 years old) and no family to call upon that would help. At that time, God was in the process of separating me from everything and everyone that I could depend upon. Sometimes things and people become convienent distractions used by Satan to keep people from seeing their real need for salvation that can only be found in Christ Jesus. Anyway, to make a long story short, I was saved at an old street mission Church where the minister preached on the reality of eternal damnation and the need to be born-again. Praise God, there is power wonder working power in the precious blood of the Lamb. After salvation, the Holy Spirit stirred up my heart to seek God concerning the baptizism in the Holy Ghost. The Spirit spoke to my heart and told me that this was for today and that it could be mine for the asking and that it was to be recieved by faith. I was so hungry for everything that God had for me as his child and if this is what the Lord had provided for his people, I wanted it. I shared my desire to be baptized in the Holy Ghost with the people who came to the street mission to minister God's holy word, and they had agreed that on the next Lord's day they would pray with me for the outpouring of the Spirit and that I should spend the time in prayer before the appointed time. But it would seem that God had other plans. On the very day when God baptized me in the Holy Ghost, I and another brother in the Lord was seeking work at a daily-labor place where you can go out on a work assignment and get paid on the same day. This was the only source of income for me while living on the streets. However, on this day we were not able to get out on a work assignment so we decided to go to a nearby library and read our bibles. At the library I began to share with this brother that was with me how I was seeking and desiring to be baptized in the Holy Ghost and how the ministry team at the street mission had agreed to pray with me on the next Lord's day until the fire fell. He responded to me by saying we did not have to wait until then, because God was present with us right where we were, and that if God put the desire in my heart and if I was hungry for the baptizism God would baptize me that day. With child-like faith me, and this brother left the library to go to a nearby park so we could pray together that God would baptize me with the Holy Ghost. I can still remember to this day how strong the presence of the Holy One was on us and all around us while we walked together to the park to pray. We were already praising God for what we knew he was about to do. We arrived and found a bench to sit down on as we prayed. I was just a little ambivalent (not much) but the brother that was with me encouraged me a little further and we prayed. As we both prayed that God would baptize me in the Holy Ghost (it wasn't even 30 seconds I suppose) the fire fell and I was baptized in the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gave me utterance. I was so full of joy that the Lord would baptize a street bum such as I in his precious Holy Spirit. Amazing!! I felt like I could take on the world, it was wonderful. My life ever since then has never been the same, and never will be the same. This promise of the Father is unto you and to your children and unto as many as are afar off, even as many as the Lord shall call.

As I look back at that time, I am thankful to God that someone did not try and tell me that the baptizism in the Holy Ghost was not for today. I am so glad that I had the child-like faith to simply believe what the Bible said, and had not been victimized by cold doubt and unbelief recieved by the traditions of religious men. I am so thankful that I was not robbed as many of God's ministers and laity are today due to a theological misintrepretation that has caused many to dismiss this wonderful baptizism of the Spirit.

[u][b][color=0000FF]"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:" that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF THE SPIRIT THROUGH FAITH." [/color][/b][/u]Gal. 3:13-14.

Dear Jimotheus,

You said:

I said that THE INITIAL physical evidence is that the believe will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance. This was the case in every instance where this took place in the book of Acts, [u]and it will always be the case whenever a child of God is truely baptized in the Holy Ghost[/u].

However, your claim which I underlined in the above quote is not taught anywhere in the Bible. This is a personal conclusion that you have drawn, which I believe to be untrue.

1Co 12:4-11 "There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the [b]manifestation of the Spirit[/b] is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines."

[b]The word manifestation means outward or perceptible indication, or evidence of the Spirit. If a believer manifests any of the other gifts, he has been filled by the Spirit, whether he speaks in tongues or not.[/b]

In fact, the Bible teaches that there are higher manifestations of a God-centered life:

[b]1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.[/b]

Greetings appolus:

I just read your articles and have been blessed by them. I especially appreciate hearing of the faith of your precious mother and her perserverance under such a terrible circumstance with your Father being full of the devil persecuting your Mom because of her faith in Christ. I was blessed to hear how the Lord came upon you at a crucial moment when you felt that your mother would not survive the night, but the Lord contradicted the work and intention of the enemy and preserved your Mother. Hallelujah to the Lamb.
Is your Mother still alive? And your Father, did he ever come to Christ? I hope and pray so, Sir. There were a couple of things in your articles that were a source of conviction for me. One is (to my shame) I have not personally lead any to Christ in a long time. I can not remember the last time I have seen someone GENIUNELY saved by the blood of the Lamb. Please pray for me that the Lord will create in me a clear heart and fill it once again with "Katanusso" from on high and become a profitable servant for his kingdom honor, and glory. Thanks and God Bless.

Jimotheus wrote:

I did not say that everyone that has been baptized in the Holy Ghost has the gift of tongues. I said that THE INITIAL physical evidence is that the believe will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance

That's not the way Peter sees it read Acts 15:8-9 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Peter reconciles the Holy Spirit with having a pure heart not any gift of the spirit.

Jesus says out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.

Jesus went on to say in Matthew 5:28 everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery or whoever is angry with his brother is in danger of the judgment Matthew 5:22.

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

All these issues come from the heart a heart that's has not been purified by the Holy Spirit.

I ask you as I ask myself do you love God with all your heart? Do love people like you love yourself?

Maybe like me, you can say what Paul says in Romans 7:22-23 I delight in the law of God after the inward man but I see another law in my members bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Who can deliver us from this body of death. Jesus Christ our Lord through his baptism of the Holy Spirit he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire. He shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver.

What I am trying to say is that we focus on the gifts of the Spirit, when we should be focusing on purity of heart without such no man can see God. Paul spoke to the carnal christians in Corinth about the gifts of the Spirit saying I will show you are more excellent way.

What is the more excellent way well it way of Love 1 Cor 13:2 You can speak in tounges as much as you like, you can prophecy as much as you like, you can have faith to move mountains, you can understand all mysteries but if you don't have love you are nothing.

Love is Kind, Love suffers long, Love is not puffed up, Love does not act the wrong way, Love is not easily provoked, Love does not think evil, Love does not rejoice in evil but rejoices in truth, Love never fails.

This love flows from a purfied heart, a heart that's been cleanesd and refined where all the dross has beed burned up. From that heart flows the very opposite of the what I mentioned earlier in the post.

Leonard Ravenhill quote "There’s only one proof of the Holy Ghost in your life and that’s a holy life"

Greetings Leo Grace:

Thanks for the your reply. I guess considering how in the book of Acts as it is reported by Luke, every instance where believers were baptized in the Holy Ghost they initially spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them the utterance. I therefore concluded that if this is what is demonstrated in the Holy record that this is God's paradigm of how one should know if they have received the baptizism that everyone should have this initial sign. I was under the understanding that anyone thereafter who recieved would be acted upon in the same manner as we have it in God's word. I was certainly acted upon by the Holy Ghost this way when I recieved, but maybe some are an exception to this. I guess as long as we seek to be filled, I know God will do it. As Jesus said it is the Father's good pleasure to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. Praise the Lord.

Greetings appolus:

Praise the Lord that you Father was saved. Often times only one in the marriage comes to faith in Christ and the other is lost. I want to thank you for your prayers. I know you do not know me personally, but the Lord will know the wretch of whom you speak when you pray. I can only say that the Lord has been patient and longsuffering with me. I have wasted some time in the Lord and feel that I have missed an opportunity of a lifetime in the lifetime of the opportunity. I remember the passage of scripture that says, "I will restore unto you the years the cankerworm, the palmerworm, locust and the catapillar have eaten. . ." Praise God there is hope in the saving strength of his right hand.

Deep thinker: Praise the Lord!! I was blessed reading your reply. I just smiled in agreement. I loved when you said:

"Some people rather stay in the wilderness and never venture into the promise land. Some actually step into the Jordan the waters are pulled back for them to cross over."

nothing would thrill my heart if many that visit this site began reporting that they have recieved the baptizism of the Spirit and have crossed over Jordan. I also chuckled in agreement when you wrote:

"If you've never been filled with Holy Spirit according to what has been witnessed in the book of Acts, you have not been filled but have been lied to by one of these preachers that do not stand for the whole counsel of God."

All I can add to this is a hardy,
[b][size=large][color=FF0000]Amen!!![/color][/size][/b]

thank you brothers for this thread.
I've been seeking the baptism of the Holy Spirit for about a year but I kinda became frustrated and gave up... This stirrs me up again to seek HIM and knock, knock, knock...

Don't look for deceptive gifts. It is great to speak with tongues if the Lord gives it. However, there are better evidences of the Holy Spirit working in your life. Only twice in the books of Acts did they speak in tongues, once as a sign to Jews and once as a sign to Gentiles. For example, there is no evidence that the Philippian jailer or Ehtiopian eunuch spoke in tongues. Paul's teachings would contradict that he saw his churches all speaking in tongues, as has been mentioned. The best evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is . . . holiness!

Greetings MeiLi:

It blessed my soul to hear of that you are going to continue to seek the Lord for the mighty baptism in the Holy Ghost. I pray that the Lord will fill you to the overflow and know assuredly that this is real; that this is holy, and that this is for the Church today. In just a little while I, and my family will be leaving for Church so I only have time for a few lines of encouragement.

St.Luke 24:49 says, "And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, UNTIL YE BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH."

The baptism in the Holy Ghost is called by the Lord Jesus, "the promise of the Father" and that indeed it is. Let me encourage you to continue to tarry, and you will be endued with power from on high. With myself, it was only a week or so after I was saved, but with some others it takes a little longer. I do not understand all of the reasons why, but one thing is for sure, it isn't the ridiculous teaching that this isn't for today. If the Devil had his way, you will never recieve this power from on high. Unfortunately, he will even use popular and well-known ministers in our day to deceive and discourage any and all who would even consider the truth of this promise. Remember, just because a preacher is well-known and seems to be a "pillar" to many means absolutely nothing. Take you eyes and ears off of anyone who will try to discourage you in anyway from you receiving from your heavenly Father this baptism of power. It is the Father's good pleasure to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him.

Acts 1:8 says, "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."

The Church was tarrying for the power (Gk. Dunamis- supernatural ability, miracle working power, inherent power, etc.) They had no idea that this filling with the Holy Ghost would produce the manifestation of speaking in tongues. Jesus never told them one thing about tongues, but he did say that they would be given this "Dunamis" from on high for the purpose of being the witness that they were called to be. That also meant power to confirm the word of the gospel preached as the Lord promised. Jesus said to his disciples, "The works that I do shall ye do, and greater works than these because I go to my Father." And what did Jesus do you may ask:

Acts 10:38 tells us, "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power; who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."

This is what Jesus did with the anointing of the Holy Ghost and this is what he has called his Church to do today. Notice that if you were to continue reading on in that 10th chapter, the bible says that the Holy Ghost fell on all those who heard the word and all of the men that accompanied Peter was astonished being Jews, Why? Because that God had pour out upon the Gentiles the Holy Ghost. How were they able to tell that God poured out the Holy Ghost upon these hungry Gentiles? The scripture continues: "FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES AND MAGNIFY GOD." O Hallelujah. Now unto the King eternal immortal invisible, to the only wise God be honor and glory forever.

This is the INITIAL sign (not the only) but the INITIAL sign of being endued with Holy Ghost power is that you will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives you the utterance. This gift may not remain with you (with most, it does) but there will be a gift, or gifts of the Spirit that he will reveal to you for the purpose of evangelism and the edification of the body of Christ. Well, I wish I could say more but it will have to wait. Gotta go to Church. God Bless you.

Koheleth

I don't really know what you mean by don't look for deceptive gifts.

Paul tells us to covet earnestly the best gifts 1Cor 12:31 We are told by Jesus that signs will accompany those who believe.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

Jesus told us as well in Mark 13:22 false christ and false prophets will arise and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

But Jesus gave us away to find the source of the signs and wonders and that was to look at the fruits of there life. Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

I personally was filled by the Holy Spirit before I went to church. I said a simple prayer "God I want to change I am fed up being this way" When I lay back on my bed a wind left me from my stomach then a wind blew into my stomach from there is spread all over me. When it stopped I sat up and spoke in tounges.

If the Spirit is present we must look for the fruits. The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

The greatest of these is Love as Paul says so if we do hear of signs and wonders we must look for the fruits in that persons life so we don't get decieved by anyone false but we can't just say that all gifts are false and we should not seek them at all.

appolus wrote:
HI Koheleth,

I would have to disagree with your logic when it comes to highligihting the fact that the two people did not speak in tongues, you cannot prove anything from the negative. I think that if we look at Acts and Corinthians, we see that it was normative. Yet, I do agree with the second part of your comment, although I would say love rather than holiness would be a better choice of words. 1Cor 13 just hammers home the point in graphic ways that we can have everything in regards to gifts, but if we do not have love we do not have anything.

/

Brother Frank,

Although I haven't posted in a while, your post has compelled me to comment with a heartily amen!

I have enjoyed reading most of the responses on this thread. I appreciate the zeal for the truth in Jim and also the last post of Colin.

I believe this thread you have started is very important. I appreciate the way you are going about this thread with the others who have posted.

I believe that love has the preeminence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost along with boldness that must be controlled by meekness of the spirit. Holiness will be produced in us by the process of sanctification through the truth of the word of God. There must be growth in sanctification.

Many mistake the baptism with the Holy Ghost different from what the scriptures reveal. The scriptures plainly tell us that we will receive power immediately after the infilling, and along with that will be an over flowing of love. There is still a lot of growing in holiness for the christian. We need to understand that a gift is given but fruit is produced from abiding in the word of Christ.

I believe that there were a lot of ministers in the past who were filled with the Holy Spirit with a measure of power to do the works of God without ever speaking in tongues. I also believe that all those in the book of acts who were baptized(immersed) in the Holy Ghost received the initial evidence of speaking in an unknown language as the spirit gave them the utterance.

The gift of tongues and the initial evidence are not the same things. When a person is totally immersed in the Holy Spirit and yielding completely to the Holy Spirit then the spirit can move through him with an utterance to speak by the spirit. The person will be doing the speaking but the utterance will be of the Holy Spirit. This is an amazing experience but minor compared to the overwhelming experience of power and love that the person will feel. When I was immersed in the Holy Spirit I thought back and remembered that I had praised God in a loud voice that the language was unknown to me but the feeling and the changes that also happened to me were greater than the fact that I spoke in an unknown tongue.

It is really sad that tongues have become such an issue and also abused that people misunderstand the baptism altogether but I don't see how anyone can convince me from scripture that the initial evidence is not speaking in a unknown language.

Blessings to you all!

Dear Jimotheus,

As Jesus said it is the Father's good pleasure to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. Praise the Lord.

Amen. In Christ's love, Leo

Hi Koheleth

You wrote:It is great to speak with tongues if the Lord gives it. However, there are better evidences of the Holy Spirit working in your life.
_______

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am still a young christian but I have had a great deal of pain and sorrow inflected on me by some that say you must speak in tongues to prove you are baptized in the spirit. I spent hours night after night begging and pleading for the gift of tongues and it just never happened. It was truly a painful time for me and caused me so much confusion and doubt. I do believe in the gifts and who knows one day perhaps the Lord will have me speak in other tongues, but for now I know what is most vital is to live my life daily walking in submission and obedience to Him. And I know that "LOVE" is the greatest of all the gifts!

Anyway I just wanted to pop in and say thank you:-)

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

Dear wind_blows,

Thank you for sharing of your personal experience:

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am still a young christian but I have had a great deal of pain and sorrow inflected on me by some that say you must speak in tongues to prove you are baptized in the spirit. I spent hours night after night begging and pleading for the gift of tongues and it just never happened. It was truly a painful time for me and caused me so much confusion and doubt. I do believe in the gifts and who knows one day perhaps the Lord will have me speak in other tongues, but for now I know what is most vital is to live my life daily walking in submission and obedience to Him. And I know that "LOVE" is the greatest of all the gifts!

Those who insist that speaking in tongues is the only sign of being truly filled with the Spirit can cause problems for many young Christians.

The first case would be like yours where someone who has recently been truly saved, who has started exercising faith through good works and love by the power of the Spirit, is made to feel inadequate because he/she has not spoken in tongues.

The other danger is one that I actually observed in a church belonging to a major charismatic denomination that I attended for some time. They were so focused on the gift of tongues that they actually held training sessions led by older church members to show how to shape the mouth, purse the lips, and wiggle the tongue so as to "properly speak in tongues". Needless to say, their worship services were always "filled with the Spirit" because each time, many members would "speak in tongues" while others would be "slain in the Spirit". However, their congregation was fraught with sin. Among the church elders and their families there was a lot of gossip, lies, a prominent case of adultery, teenage pregnancy, envy, misuse of church funds, etc. They were walking down the wrong road, focusing on the wrong thing, because of this error in doctrine.

I am glad that you have seen the truth that the most vital thing is to live each day with God in humble obedience and love.

wind_blows wrote:
Hi Koheleth

You wrote:It is great to speak with tongues if the Lord gives it. However, there are better evidences of the Holy Spirit working in your life.
_______

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am still a young christian but I have had a great deal of pain and sorrow inflected on me by some that say you must speak in tongues to prove you are baptized in the spirit. I spent hours night after night begging and pleading for the gift of tongues and it just never happened. It was truly a painful time for me and caused me so much confusion and doubt. I do believe in the gifts and who knows one day perhaps the Lord will have me speak in other tongues, but for now I know what is most vital is to live my life daily walking in submission and obedience to Him. And I know that "LOVE" is the greatest of all the gifts!

Anyway I just wanted to pop in and say thank you:-)

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

Dear Sister,

I am sorry to hear of your experience concerning receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I never tell anyone to seek for tongues to receive the baptism and neither do the scriptures. What I was saying about the tongues being the initial evidence is that immersion in the Holy Ghost will be followed by an utterance from the Holy Spirit where the person receiving will be able to speak in an unknown language. There are people who have learned how to say some unknown words but have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Learning how to speak some unknown (supposedly) words is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit. The true baptism in the Holy Spirit is when a person is filled to overflowing of the spirit where an unknown language of the spirit follows the infilling. The infilling will not follow what is of man’s doing. I only tell people to seek God in the name of Jesus Christ on the ground of his blood for God to fill the person with Himself. While a person is seeking God they could have many fillings of the spirit before they are immersed in the Holy Spirit. It is also better to have a person continually seeking God and to be some filled with the spirit than to have someone who was baptized at one time but now not continuing to be filled.

If I could encourage you any, I would say to you to just keep seeking God and desiring Him with all your heart because you don’t need to be seeking for tongues. Just seek God to immerse you in the Holy Ghost and remember it is a gift and not something you are to beg for or feel unworthy to receive. We being evil know how to give good things to our children, how much more the Father will give the Holy Spirit to them who ask Him. Also knowing that we love our children and wouldn’t give anything harmful to our children then we can also know that our father who loves us wouldn’t give anything harmful to us that are truly trusting in Him.

Blessings to you!

There are two sides to the Holy Spirit the Gifts and the Cleansing work. There are those who have focused on the gifts and have not focused on purification of the heart and that has led to deception in the church as all types of charlatans have crept in.

Then there is the other group of Christains who look at the that group and see whats going on and the mistakes being made and toss the gifts and call it false but it's not all false.

This is just a generalization I could add more groups in here.

So we end up with different groups of Christains that are not walking in the fullness of what God has.

It's really sad.....

Dear Wind_Blows

Paul is asking a question to the church in Corinth

1 Cor 12:9 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

The answer to his questions is no because not all are Apostles, Prophets, Teachers or Miracle workers.

1 Cor 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Again the answer is no to all of his questions.

Also just to clarify a point love is not a gift, it's a Fruit. Galatians 5:22.

Matt 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

When I read this scripture above I think about peoples hearts. A pure heart will bring forth that which is pure, a unclean heart will bring forth uncleaness. These are two types of Fruit one good the other bad.

Thats why we will know them by there fruit for futher reading you can also read James 3:1-18. Paul is talking about the tounge but in verse 11 he talks about a fountain and the type of water coming out of it this for me relates the matter back to the heart. Basically the tounge is letting you know whats in the heart. Matt 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughs.

Thats why we need our hearts purified and filled with the Spirit so we can bring forth the Fruits of the Spirit.

That work of purification is the work of sanctification Ezekiel 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

God says he will sanctfy his great name. How because God will be sanctified in us before their eyes.

How will he do it well read on in.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

God is going to be sanctified in us before their eyes by cleansing us, giving us a new heart and a new spirit.

Then the good friuts will be seen in our lives and his Great Name will be sanctified.

Hi
First let me say thank you for the kind and encouraging replies to my post. I am do appreciate the clarification you shared murrcolr about speaking in tongues.
You wrote:Also just to clarify a point love is not a gift, it's a Fruit. Galatians 5:22.

Your right about that of course love is a fruit of the spirit:-) For me though love is a wonderful gift that for along time in my life I never thought I would have. For most of my life I have lived very closed off emotionally and unwilling to share love to others. When I was a very little girl, my dad would leave us.He was an absentee father(he would leave and come back as he pleased) Because of this there was no covering in my home. Things happened and there was a lot of pain and sadness. I use to bury my emotions, except for anger and I held so much resentment in my heart. As a little girl things were stolen from me and it left such a emptiness for a long time, but then I came to know Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I saw how much He loved me even though I was not deserving of that love. I saw and understood how my sin of anger and hate had crucified Him. I understood what He gave for me on the cross and for the first time I really learned to love, not for selfish reasons but because of who He is! Because of Jesus I have been able to forgive my dad for things that happened. I can even tell you honestly that I love my family and I pray for them to come to know Jesus. I guess I see love as a gift because for such a long time I only felt anger and hate? Does that make sense? I am so thankful that the Lord has opened my heart and filled it with His love and that He gives me the strength to walk out daily with Him caring for others.

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

"For me though love is a wonderful gift that for along time in my life I never thought I would have."

Hi Elizabeth,

Thank you for sharing your testimony with us. God is doing such an awesome work in your life.

Praise God that Jesus is living in you, and when He came in by the Holy Spirit, His love also was manifested to you. One of the surest signs that you are truly born again is that you know the love of God and now can love others with that same love.

"We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death." (1 John 3:14).

"And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." (Romans 5:5).

Mike

wind_blows wrote:
Hi Koheleth

You wrote:It is great to speak with tongues if the Lord gives it. However, there are better evidences of the Holy Spirit working in your life.
_______

Thank you so much for sharing this. I am still a young christian but I have had a great deal of pain and sorrow inflected on me by some that say you must speak in tongues to prove you are baptized in the spirit. I spent hours night after night begging and pleading for the gift of tongues and it just never happened. It was truly a painful time for me and caused me so much confusion and doubt. I do believe in the gifts and who knows one day perhaps the Lord will have me speak in other tongues, but for now I know what is most vital is to live my life daily walking in submission and obedience to Him. And I know that "LOVE" is the greatest of all the gifts!

Anyway I just wanted to pop in and say thank you:-)

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

Elizabeth, thank you for your reply. I want to encourage you in what Jesus called the two greatest commandments. Every day, seek to love the Lord with all, all, all. Then love your neighbors as yourself. Jesus came to do away with complex legalistic demands and make life in the Spirit wonderful and simple.

Yes, the gift of tongues is still active and many are using it or seeking it. But the best thing to seek is the Lord. He will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him. No Scripture anywhere says he will give tongues to all or that all must speak in tongues. Do not allow anyone to steal your joy with commands and requirements not found in the Bible.

Peace be unto you, Koheleth

I believe in the gift of tongues as I believe in the other gifts and manifestations of the Spirit. Those who have the gift of tongues are right to feel good about themselves for they have received favor from God. But those who have been blessed with other Spiritual gifts can feel equally good about themselves and are not lacking in any way before God.

Brothers, it is fruitless for us argue about this since all of us are mere men of limited understanding. We may all lay claim to the enlightenment of the Spirit, but we still vigorously express opposing points of view.

Let us please cease our arguments and refer the matter to a higher authority, the apostle Paul, who has taught about this very thing in the Bible.

1Co 14:1 [b]Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy[/b].
1Co 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
1Co 14:3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
1Co 14:5 [b]I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified[/b].
1Co 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?
1Co 14:7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes?
1Co 14:8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?
1Co 14:9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air.
1Co 14:10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.
1Co 14:11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me.
1Co 14:12 So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up h the church.
1Co 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.
1Co 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
1Co 14:15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind.
1Co 14:16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say “Amen” to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.
1Co 14:18 [b]I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you[/b].
1Co 14:19 [b]But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue[/b].
1Co 14:20 Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.
1Co 14:21 In the Law it is written: “Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me,” says the Lord.
1Co 14:22 [b]Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers[/b].
1Co 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
1Co 14:24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all,
1Co 14:25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”

In Christ's Love,
Leo

appolus wrote:
HI Leo,

I dont see a lot of arguing here brother. People have their points of view and it is good to hear what brothers and sisters have to say on this important subject. I believe that all have handled themselves well up till now and I am refreshed by it. And let me just add this to this mix :) Even although I see consitancy in the Scriptures that we have in regard to tounges being the initial evidence, I do believe that it is possible to be Baptized in the Holy Spirt and to never speak in tongues. I would argue this from the standpoint that there was no clear doctrine laid down on the subject in regard to speaking in tongues as the initial evidence. There is observation, no doubt, but ultimately the question is asked rhetoricaly "Do all speak in tongues," in regard to various gifts and of course the answer is no. So I would argue that caution must be observed if one would attempt to be dogmatic on the specific subject of tongues being the initial evidence of Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Something to think about..........brother Frank

Brother Frank,

Again, I appreciate how you have handle this thread. I also do not believe in arguing the scriptures but only to speak the truth in love.

Several years ago I knew a man for a period of around three years who was a baptist minister filled with the spirit. God was using him supernaturally in revivals. He told me that he had not spoke in tongues. I could clearly tell that he was filled with the spirit and that God was using him more mightily than so many that claimed to speak in tongues.

I will never focus on tongues as being the main thing but only to say that I believe that in the book of acts in the days of the original apostles of the five instances where people were receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit, one could easily gather that they all spake in a new tongue as the spirit of God gave the utterance.

I realize since then we have had a lot a problems and abuses that could fill up a large book of why things are different today.

Blessings to you!

Dear Frank,

I do believe that it is possible to be Baptized in the Holy Spirt and to never speak in tongues. I would argue this from the standpoint that there was no clear doctrine laid down on the subject in regard to speaking in tongues as the initial evidence. There is observation, no doubt, but ultimately the question is asked rhetoricaly "Do all speak in tongues," in regard to various gifts and of course the answer is no. So I would argue that caution must be observed if one would attempt to be dogmatic on the specific subject of tongues being the initial evidence of Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Something to think about..........brother Frank

In Christ's Love,
Leo

I removed what I previously said... it didn't sound right... I do not mean that we should seek the gift of "tongues." We are not to seek just one gift. But we should not reject tongues or think less of it because we think it's the least of all gifts. Nowhere does it say it's the least. All the gifts are equal in power.

Luke 24.49
Acts 1:8
Acts 4:31-33
Acts 4:33

Jesus DID NOT say in Luke 24.49, go and tarry until you be endued with tongues; no, it's power. Power to live an overcoming life.

And you know what, the Lord is gracious to us. If you want all the other gifts and not the gift of tongues, then He will not give it to you. He will never sneak nothing on us that we do not want.

But I need to share this; the gift of tongue(s) is the one gift where the Holy Spirit speaks/prays exactly what He hears from the throne (John 16.13). True we do not understand but howbeit God understands! All these gifts are based on faith.

And if you've never seen this gift (or any other) operate in love and seen what they can do for others (these gifts are to help others), then of course you will not desire it. Oh but when you see it, hear it, that's when you put more wood on the fire and seek God more earnestly, desiring these things!

Elizabeth,

I am so sorry for those who have told you this lie about you have to speak in tongues to prove you are saved, what hogwash!

It's the baptism of the Holy Spirit everyone should seek for, not "tongues." and it is a separate experience from salvation (not greater than salvation). Although, I have known a couple of people that received it when the got saved!

Love is indeed the greatest of these and [b]we need love[/b] when we operate in the gifts or you get what we have now in some circles: "charismania."

God bless you, Elizabeth!

Hi everyone
I will not be able to come by and check the thread anymore. I am going back home to be with my mom. I only have access to a computer for short periods of time when I come visiting in twon. Just wanted to say thank you all for your posts and your kind words. For me knowing Jesus has been the greatest of all blessings, and gifts that I could ever receive. I am learning daily to submit my will unto Him. Daily He strengthens me and caused my love to grow and I am so very grateful.

I do not know when I will be returning as some things have changed at home, and I am needed there even more, but thank you again for the encouragement:-)

your little sis in Him
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth...

I will be praying for you.

Let me encourage you that you shouldn't worry about what will be the outcome of being baptized (or filled) with the Holy Spirit. In Acts chapter 1, Jesus only instructed the disciples to "wait for the promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4). The Lord didn't tell them WHAT would happen. He just told them to wait upon the Lord.

What a marvelous thing! We need only to seek the Lord! I don't think that we should fear whether or not we will ever speak in tongues or even exhibit the other gifts of the Spirit. We simply need to seek the face of God -- waiting upon Him to act in the faith.

As we grow in our faith and intimacy with the Lord, we can always seek God to use us in whichever gift that He chooses to bestow. However, we should not fear that we will or will not exhibit anything that the Lord gives us. After all, he is the baptizer. It is He who will baptize us with the Holy Spirit and with fire and give us any gifts that He sees fit. We should never worry about any of his gifts...because "every good gift comes from above" (James 1:17).

Be encouraged. Simply wait upon the Lord by seeking Him in purity and in truth.

:-)