Leaving my Church.... going somewhere else...

Please keep me in prayer. Today the Lord spoke to me at the end of our church service that he needs me somewhere else. I've gone to my present church for five years, and have been greatly blessed there. I don't know where the Lord wants me to go now.

By the way, I live in the Charlotte, North Carolina area in case anybody has any suggestions.

Amen. When I do finally leave, I will probably take only one Sunday off from the church in order to pray and seek direction from the Lord.

Brother KJ,

A similar thing happened to me recently. Last September I began to feel like I would be moving churches. I had been at the same church since I got saved 13 years ago. I had no idea where to go, so I stayed where I was and began praying. For 9 months there was no answer. But on May 17th the Lord VERY clearly told me exactly where to go. It was unmistakable. I’ve been at the new church since then and words would fail to express what a tremendous blessing it has been. I could not have chosen so well for myself. I have not regretted the 9 months of waiting for His choice.

My prayers for you brother.

Amen. Thank you for sharing this.

Well, even though I am moving on from my church, I do plan on staying in regular contact with a few brothers I have grown very close to. I imagine I will still be invited back to preach from time to time as well, as I have a pretty strong relationship with the rest of the church. And the church is in the process of organization some outreach, and since I have a lot of experience in street ministry, I'll probably show up on some Saturdays and help train them and take them out in the streets until they know enough to do it on their own.

Some brothers at my church though I feel like will be individuals that I will see for the rest of our lives. One or two in particular, who have been almost father figures to me.

hi, broken one left the church i have been with on and off for 40 years and did very well in her choice of a wonderful church associated with bro clendennon.in baton rouge there are many...at least 10 great churches...this is why i am always puzzled by all the negative input about the church. is it that we are blessed or what? grow where you are planted until Jesus transplants you.be a part of the reason why people want to fellowship with you not a part of the murmurers.love the brothers and sisters around you and pray for those in authority. it is not easy to be spurgeon every sermon.know nothing except Jesus ;and Him crucified...intercede for the other churches in your area and all the pastors...be a part of the family of God always lifting up Jesus and not your church and you will prosper wherever you go... dont pray for your football team[lsu] for it doesnt work.jimp

Personally speaking, I cannot help but seek out other Christians and fellowships to partake of. No matter how perfect, or how lacking, so long as Jesus walks in the midst of their candlestick, that's all that matters to me. Would I like to find a great fellowship to be a part of? You bet. But, I feel that ultimately that I'm to only go wherever the Lord tells me to go, no matter how good or how bad that local fellowship might be. Ultimately, when I go to a church, I look to bring more to that fellowship than receive. It's about what I can give, not get :-)

Finding a church can be very difficult. I highly recommend taking some time to study the word and letting the LORD lead you (not that you are not doing this already). Discover the truth about why most churches meet on Sundays. Let scripture and the Holy Spirit guide you. What we do as followers of Christ should be on what the bible says not on tradition. Remember the fourth commandment. I will pray for you. God Bless.

Brothers and Sisters,

This is something that has been weighing on my heart for sometime. I am discouraged and frightened by how some of this board can be completely separated from a local church body and somehow think they are obeying God. I do not say this lightly, but, if you are purposefully separated from a local church and are not making effort to join yourself to a local church, you are in sin, and you must repent immediately. I am greatly distressed that this is even practiced, but is actually seen as the will of God, because of some supposed revelation from the Lord.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthian church, some of the people in that fellowship were having sexual relationships with their own family members. Yet, did Paul tell people to separate themselves from this assembly? No, he did not. Of how much lesser matters are believers leaving local churches in our day? Because they don't think the people are spiritual enough for them? Because they don't like the preacher? Because they have some doctrinal disagreements?

I'm telling you, brothers and sisters, if this is your case, you are outside of the New Testament example of Christianity. All examples of believers in the Scriptures were associated with local assemblies.

John tells us the mark of genuine salvation is a love for the brothers. It is easy to love someone from a distance, or over the Internet. But, can you love someone on a weekly basis who you disagree with, or who is unlovable to you?

I do not say this lightly, but if you are not connected to a local church assembly, and are not making effort to join yourself to one (either through searching or attemping to move to another town), I do not believe you have Scriptural authority to have assurance of your eternal salvation. It is a Scriptural, fundamental mark of true Christianity to be joined to a local assembly of believers.

With a heavy heart...

Ideally, I would like to find a house church network to belong to in this area, or at least a church where it is obvious that recognizes the value of a larger Sunday gathering, that we should ultimately follow the model established by the Lord and His apostles.

Great thoughts Taylor. I agree with a lot of what you said. I think sometimes we can have a schismatic heart about these issues, as we refuse to have fellowship with those we deem to be less spiritual than us. Most sermons I have ever heard or read about how to pick a church have almost no Biblical basis to them. i.e. Find a bible believing, spirit-filled church that is non-seeker friendly, full of prayer warriors, that preaches 'yada, yada, yada.'

I think the emphasis of the NT would be that it is more important that we belong to a local fellowship than finding a church of folks who are like-minded and embody a certain ideal. Like-mindedness is something we should strive for with other brethren, but sometimes that same mindset may not initially exist, until we enter into the iron-sharpening-iron process. As Art Katz taught, it is that process that God uses to help shape us into the people He wants us to become.

About the only thing that I can think of that is important in choosing a church is our proximity to other brethren. Clearly in the NT, local believers fellowshipped with local believers. Granted, part of this was due to the difficulty of traveling 20 miles to another city to "have church," as it was not as simple as simply jumping into a car and going.

But for the past 5 years, I have attended a church where the closest brother to me was 20 miles away. Even though only 20 miles, it still has made it very difficult for me to fulfill the things God has put on my heart to do for the church, especially since I work 50-60 hours a week on average. This time, I will probably only search out a church in my own town. Granted, that gives me dozens of churches to pick from. But, I think proximity of distance is important, so that we might share our "life together."

DeepThinker,

I urge you to not place the blame for this situation on the Lord. The Lord does not act contrary to His Word, and He does not lead people to act contrary to the examples in His Word.

In the Scriptures, do we find Christians praying until the Lord "led" them to a suitable local church? From my understanding, they simply joined themselves to a local church. There was no long separation from the local assembly of believers.

KingJimmy and DeepThinker,

If I can be of any assistance to you in helping you find a local church, please let me know through PM. I would be glad to help in your search.

I realize "Taylor" can be a man or a woman's name, so for clarification, I am a man.

With care in Christ...

Please keep me in prayer. Today the Lord spoke to me at the end of our church service that he needs me somewhere else. I've gone to my present church for five years, and have been greatly blessed there. I don't know where the Lord wants me to go now.

Jimmy,

I will pray for you.
Also,you probably know this already but I just wanted to remind you of some wonderful advice that comes from George Muller that I have found to be very helpful...

SEEKING GOD'S WILL

1. Be slow to take new steps in the Lord's service, or in your business, or in your families: weigh everything well; weigh all in the light of the Holy Scriptures and in the fear of God.

2. Seek to have no will of your own, in order to ascertain the mind of God, regarding any steps you propose taking, so that you can honestly say you are willing to do the will of God, if He will only please to instruct you.

3. But when you have found out what the will of God is, seek for His help, and seek it earnestly, perseveringly, patiently, believingly, expectantly; and you will surely in His own time and way obtain it.

In Christ,

Ron

Hi KingJimmy...

My wife and I prayed for you last night in regard to this situation. We have been in similar situations where the local Church with which we fellowshipped wasn't very "local."

You will continue to remain in our prayers.

:-)

Thank you all for your precious thoughts, insights and prayers in regard to this issue. Needless to say, I will be pondering a lot of things. I know I just want to be led of the Lord to wherever I go.

I'm an arminian-evangelical-pentecostal with strong Art Katz-ian convictions. That sorta combo I am not likely to find. Most the churches here are generally some variety/combo of non-denominational/reformed/seeker-friendly/quasi-charismatics. A lot of new churches have started in the last 10 years due to the tremendous growth of the Charlotte/Lake Norman area, which has since died since the economy went south. It's a very strong upper-middle class culture in this area.

I really would like to bring a sense of authentic apostolic Christianity to these churches however possible. I've contemplated starting my own church, but, I don't believe that's the Lord's will for my life right now.

I am discouraged and frightened by how some of this board can be completely separated from a local church body and somehow think they are obeying God. I do not say this lightly, but, if you are purposefully separated from a local church and are not making effort to join yourself to a local church, you are in sin, and you must repent immediately.

I do not say this lightly, but if you are not connected to a local church assembly, and are not making effort to join yourself to one (either through searching or attemping to move to another town), I do not believe you have Scriptural authority to have assurance of your eternal salvation. It is a Scriptural, fundamental mark of true Christianity to be joined to a local assembly of believers.

Taylor, these are very strong statments. Have you really thought that through prayerfully?

May I ask you, please... how do you define a "local church body"?

AD

Taylor, these are very strong statments. Have you really thought that through prayerfully?

Brother,

I have been meditating on these things for sometime, and state them prayerfully and cautiously. If someone can present me good evidence that it is Biblical to be separated from a local church body, then I will retract the statements. But, as far as I know, all Christians in the Scriptures that we know very much about were associated with local churches. However, I did not say that all outside of the church are not saved, but rather I don't believe they can have Biblical assurance of salvation since they are so far removed from New Testament practice.

A local church body is a group of believers and their children who meet together to practice the things Christ commanded, and to perform those things the Apostles describe as taking place in a local church.

From Scripture, we know that there was teaching, song, the Lord's supper, and prayer. There was also leadership through elders and deacons. We should expect to find these things in a true local church.

With care in Christ...

Taylor,

Thanks for your response.

If someone can present me good evidence that it is Biblical to be separated from a local church body, then I will retract the statements.

Of course it isn't biblical to be separated from "a local church body," but what do you do when you can't find a vital church body under the hand of the Holy Spirit?

I hope that your earlier comments didn't put any of the true sheep of God's pasture under condemnation, for there are many these days, MANY, who are agonizing over this very matter, and have felt they could no longer continue to be part of a so-called local church because of the emptiness they experience there week in and week out. Sheep, true sheep... who simply do not hear the Voice of their Shepherd when they go to "church."

And so they leave, and many of them end up walking a solitary walk... not because they are in sin, or rebellious, or self willed... In fact they have a heart for God, and know deeply their need for fellowship, and long for it. The problem is that they simply cannot find "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" when they go "to church."

A local church body is a group of believers and their children who meet together to practice the things Christ commanded, and to perform those things the Apostles describe as taking place in a local church.

From Scripture, we know that there was teaching, song, the Lord's supper, and prayer. There was also leadership through elders and deacons. We should expect to find these things in a true local church.

That's good, Taylor, as far as it goes. But all too often there is only the outward shell of that, without The Life Himself present.

I hope you are aware, brother, of what is going on in "Christendom" these days... and the implications of it all.

It certainly is "biblical" to find yourself "outside the camp" with the Lord Jesus, "bearing His reproach" (Heb. 13.13,14).

AD

AD wrote:

And so they leave, and many of them end up walking a solitary walk... not because they are in sin, or rebellious, or self willed... In fact they have a heart for God, and know deeply their need for fellowship, and long for it. The problem is that they simply cannot find "the fellowship of the Holy Spirit" when they go "to church."

Taylor: I admire your the high position you put the local church, but maybe you are more blessed than others and have a solid church. Could I put to you a question - What would you do if your church (from the leadership) started going away from sound scriptural teaching and based the meetings on extra-biblical 'words'? Would you remain in that church regardless?

Brothers,

Thank you for your responses. I will consider them and seek to bring my convictions more in line with truth if necessary.

If an individual is agonizing over the state of the church and is not presently in a church body while they actively search for one, I understand that. However, sometimes I fear we're separating when we shouldn't. I don't think I'm going too far to assume that there was just "a shell" in Corinth when incest was going on without church discipline. Yet, we separate for lesser sins. Sure, not everyone in the congregation is going to be as fiery as a Leonard Ravenhill or as learned as a Spurgeon. But, don't give up on the Body, get in there and serve and love people.

With care in Christ...

Personally speaking, from my point of view, if one is not actively looking for a church to attend, one should start one wherever they are at.

And by starting one, I don't mean one should go and declare themselves a pastor or anything like that. They should just look to actively gather believers together with them and meet out of their home as they break bread and study the teachings of the apostles and prophets.

I like that very much.

I sorta got the idea from watching a documentary on the Church in China. In some places, there aren't very many believers, so, they try to congregate wherever they might be if there is no other church in the area. Or because of the extreme danger of gathering with the larger church, they meet wherever they can with a couple other saints.

KingJimmy started this thread saying he is leaving his church and going to search for another. Lets leave the thread to that subject and encourage him while he seeks the Lord in his new journey.

I don't mind the discussion :-)

As Paul Washer stated, 'We don't have a lot of churches in America, we have a lot of nice brick buildings on finely manicured lawns.'

I doubt that the Apostle Paul would consider even a small percentage of what we call 'churches' in America a church.

He would probably pronounce anathema on the majority of them.

I doubt that the Apostle Paul would consider even a small percentage of what we call 'churches' in America a church.

I think that is a little harsh, don't you think? The local church at its most basic element is simply a gathering of those who are part of the kingdom. Just because there is a lot of immaturity out there doesn't mean they aren't churches just the same.

I donno if it's harsh... if you consider how much Paul labored to keep the church pure and spotless.

We often forget that the churches Paul wrote to suffered persecution, and many died for their profession in faith.

We get a bunch of carnal people together, slap a nametag on a slab of rock, and call it a church.

What is a church? What should it look like according to scripture? What should be the focus/goal of the church? What should worship look like according to scripture? What should fellowship look like? Should the congregation remain the same size for 5-10-15-20 years?

I think many of us would benefit by reading about churches in 3rd world countries, and how God blesses the spiritually poor. And by spiritually poor, I mean the born-again Christians who admit their desperate need for God's intervention on their behalf.

The 'church' in America is fat and short of breath. But thank God there are some across this nation that are praying for God to bring reformation and revival.

As Keith Daniel said, "We dare not sit back any longer, in hopelessness and unbelief, to allow the devil to destroy this land of ours."

We need preachers unashamed of the pure gospel message; who GLORY in persecution and tribulation.

May God have mercy on this nation and pour out His Spirit.

Brother, I think you suffer from a bit of a romanticism that is not in keeping with what we read in the New Testament. Such an attitude will cripple the effectiveness of the ministry the Lord has given you.

Tell me, was the church in Corinth a church? What about the churches in Galatia? What about some of the churches in the book of Revelation? Brother, many of our churches suffer these very same problems today. Many are not even as bad. By your standard they aren't a church. But by the Scriptures, they are just as much a church.

LOL, by the way, I just noticed you attend VCU. I was just across VCU a month or two ago visiting the Confederate White House :-)

I guess we have differing views on the Church, and church.

I do not think there should be any distinction between the Bride of Christ / Universal True Church, and a local body of believers / local church.

I could be wrong. And I am open to correction.

In love! :-D

VCU is great.. I guess.

It could be a LOT cleaner.

But you can't really help the fact, because we're located smack-dab in the middle of the city. Haha.

Good sewage system, so no mosquitoes. 8-)

Brother, I think you have allowed your vision of what the church should be like to keep you from seeing the church that is indeed there. She might be weak and pathetic at times, and not living according to the Life she should be, but that doesn't change the fact that there are people who are saved who gather into local fellowships. Such churches, so long as they are made up of the redeemed, are churches, even if they are full of sexual immorality, idolatry, false prophets, and a number of other things. The early church had these problems. All the saints weren't always saints. Nor were they always full of the Holy Spirit and power. Nor were they always persecuted. Yes, the church is to be much more than what it is. But IT IS what IT IS. And it is still a church.

Just out of curiosity, does VCU have a quad area? My parents live in the Richmond area, and I wouldn't mind doing some open-air evangelism there if possible.

I think I do agree with you. My expectation of what a church ought to be does leave me disappointed in many gatherings that I have attended. But speaking out against unbiblical things often leave me standing alone; so I'm currently just seeking God to know Him more. (I never knew God was so lovely)

Yes, there is a good area for open air preaching. I think about a month ago, there was an open air preacher next to the cafeteria / library preaching the Word of God. I went up and talked with him, and asked if I could pray for him. We went around and talked to people about Jesus after a bit. He came from the University of Michigan, but native to Nigeria.

Just thought id insert a direction to a Zac Poonen message that is called "why another church? [url=http://www.cfcindia.com/web/mainpages/video_archive.php]here[/url] for anyone that would want his understanding on some things related to this topic. Much worth considering

Is this something the Apostle Paul would recognize? Hmmmmm.

If he saw Jesus in them in any way, shape or form, he'd recognize them. Which is why he took the great pains he did with some of the churches that he did.

Perhaps many have grown comfortable with denominationalism, yet there is no Biblical mandate for such a system.

I totally agree. But, we know from Paul's writings that denominations are simply the fruit of the flesh.

Just thought id insert a direction to a Zac Poonen message that is called "why another church? here for anyone that would want his understanding on some things related to this topic. Much worth considering

Thank you. I was blessed by the first of the two part messages.

This thread describes my current burden.

When the Lord affords me the time, I would be interested in listening to Poonen's sermon series on this topic. I think I listened to Part 2 sometime last week. I don't see eye to eye with Poonen on some things, but, I always appreciate his very practical, straight forward, and down to earth insight. He might not be the best expositor in the world, but he is a good and godly man.

I was not talking about people, I was talking about institutions

Well, I was talking about people. :-) Wherever those saints gather, regardless if it is even in an institutional setting, they are still the church. I'm glad that the Lord is causing men and women to see that denominations themselves, however, are not churches. Many churches these days are starting to even hide the fact that they are associated with any particular denomination. About the only people who care about denominations anymore are the people that run them.

I'll try to read all your links later. The first one was quite good. I think I remember reading it earlier this year.

appulos wrotte:

I guess why I am being a stickler on this point is that I believe that the denominational system is an affront to God, not Biblical, and is the result of divisions that could not be rectified. I further believe that God has withdrawn, in a general sense, His presence from these systems and that the writing is on the wall and is a matter of a short time before it is completely swept away.

I agree 98% :-). What i have figured out is God always will pour afresh his Spirit wherever he finds people who absolutely surrender to him and believe his Son as their Lord & Savior. Who have determined to be uncomprimised disciples of Christ and sorldiers in the army of God. They are the new wineskins filled with the new wine of heaven.

The old structures and forms often are not fit for the new dispensation of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.If God does not revive a denomination and find consistent willfull disobidience from most of its members and leaders; two things may happen. He will revive and keep holy a remnant & faithful in a denomination and abandon at large the spiritually dead and lukewarm majority of denomination and look for a new people to pour out his Spirit.

What im saying is history of the church.