Angry with God

Curious as to how many on these forums have ever been angry with God.

Must admit I am currently becoming disillusioned, and regret praying 'God, at any cost, make me more like Jesus Christ.'

I do not know how Noah managed to preach for over 100 years without 1 convert.

How do Calvinists resolve the tension between election and praying for souls?

I know the time will come when I will have a Job experience, where I repent in dust and ashes, and look up to heaven with my hand over my mouth...

Angry with God? Why? After all He's done for you; with all the love He has for you? Why?

I have often felt deep anger at myself for my many failures, for what could have been if I had been more focused on God and His plan for my life, but I have never found reason to be angry with God. He has always been loving and true.

There have been times when I have felt crushed and helpless, and I am actually in such a situation now... but the promises in God's Word, and the faithfulness of His love have been proven to me time and again in the past. The memories of how God came through for me so many times before, how he turned my mourning into joy in wonderful and unexpected ways, these are the things that remind me of His unfathomable wisdom and love. They are proof for me that God is dependable and will come through for me in the end. Oftentimes I turn to His Word. Psalm 23 has always been a soothing balm for me in difficult times.

Curious as to how many on these forums have ever been angry with God.

I've been angry with God at least twice in my life. And I do mean angry. Not in a defiant way where I had some clinched hand raised at God blaspheming Him. It might sound spiritual to say, "Oh, how can a man get angry at God?" But, we read of the prophets getting such towards God. Jeremiah was so bold as to call the Lord a deceptive and untrustworthy stream on one occasion.

Sometimes, I think it is perfectly natural and ok to be angry with God. In fact, I think it is down right spiritual. If we can't get mad at Him, then it shows we probably aren't really in a strong relationship with him to begin with. Even Jesus felt this: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Dear brother, all I can say is that you MUST rediscover the power of the New Covenant. It is not your inheritance as a Son of God to partake of only the sorrows of the Master. You are also called to partake of His Bliss and Joy. One without the other will kill.

John the Baptist (the last and greatest of OT prophets) came singing th funeral dirge of the Old Covenant. Jesus came, however, playing the flute of joy and holy mirth! (Matthew 11) Our lives need not be typified by disilluionment, anger, resentment, morbid introspection or any other such gloomy vice. This is not the lot and predetermined path of the "revivalist". The great bliss given us in Jesus Christ enables us to both mourn and weep at the same time. It is like Adam's calling to "work the ground" whilst "eating freely" from any tree in the garden. ONLY "eating freely" would have resulted in selfishness; ONLY "working the ground" would have been a curse. In fact, that WAS the curse pronounced upon Adam! To work the ground whilst REMOVED from the Presence of God in the Garden of Pleasure.

Once our labors become divorced from Divine pleasure, spiritual death is always the natural result. Remember, the Lord never muzzles the ox while it is treading out the grain. Even though God may have called you to painful intercession and agonizing prayer, He has also called you to partake of hilarious joy and eternal pleasure!

The great intercessor John Hyde, who DEEPLY partook of the Lord's sufferings, would also, intermittently break out into hilarious laughter and joy--even while agonizing over souls! The Lord has more than enough joy and pleasure available to sustain us in all things! Anguish alone cannot and will not sustain a man. You have a deep love for God and a heart that is pure in many ways--but divorced from the pleasures found in Christ, anguish and sorrow alone will bring spiritual death.

Just my thoughts,
God bless you my dear brother!
Jeff

Angry with GOD ?? Not at all. Many times I have
been ashamed and disappointed in myself, my failings
and my weaknesses; but never disappointed or
ashamed of GOD.
Noah was a preacher of righteousness, He pronounced
judgment and declared GOD'S righteousness to a
wicked world, they would not receive the truth!!
Jeremiah had cause to complain to GOD; and GOD
took notice and paid heed to his lamentations.
I am only clay, and HE is the Potter. Remember
that!!

If we can't get mad at Him, then it shows we probably aren't really in a strong relationship with him to begin with.

Jimmy, I beg to differ with you here, dear brother. Please pray and consider what it is that you have written. While getting "mad" may be o.k. - I can see no way that getting mad at Him is acceptable on any level - for that is rebellion and rebellion brings about separation.

Having been angry with God twice in my life (and being very surprised at such an emotion being felt), and really pondered the feeling very deeply, in light of Scripture, I believe the feeling to be an acceptable feeling. The anger I'm thinking of is not rebellion or wrath. It's the utter disappointment and heartbreak one feels when one expected God to do one thing, only to be served something else. Jeremiah felt this in his prophetic ministry in light of the plight of Jerusalem. Jesus felt this in his ministry as He hung on the cross. "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" is what such a thing looks like.

KingJimmy said:

Sometimes, I think it is perfectly natural and ok to be angry with God. In fact, I think it is down right spiritual. If we can't get mad at Him, then it shows we probably aren't really in a strong relationship with him to begin with.

[i]1Co 13:4-7 [b]Love is patient[/b], love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [b]It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered[/b], it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, [b]always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.[/b][/i]

Do you love God?

But, we read of the prophets getting such towards God. Jeremiah was so bold as to call the Lord a deceptive and untrustworthy stream on one occasion.

And are you recommending this as a good example to follow? David was God's prophet and king, and he walked in darkness for a while when he committed adultery with Bathsheeba, and murdered her husband, one of his loyal mighty men. Since King David, the man after God's own heart, did this, is it then spiritual to follow his example?

Please pray before you answer.

Greetings

Before I was saved(when I had head knowledge of Jesus only) I went through a time when I was angry with God. I went through some time of depression and rebellion towards the Lord feeling that I had endured so much heart ache and pain in my life that I had a right to be angry with God for allowing these things to happen to me. I can not even count the number of times when I cried about how unfair things were.

Thinking back on that now all I can say(for me personally) was what a bunch of "SELF" I was living in. Instead of seeking Him through those times I allowed self to rule my heart and I was sinning against the Lord with my attitude and choices. Now that I know Jesus and walk with Him, having a personal relationship with the person Jesus I am ashamed that I ever had those thoughts or attitudes. Now when I look to the cross and see all that He has done for me, all that He has endured for me, I realize that my painful experiences pale in comparison to His own by so much. I realize that even when I was in what I thought were my darkest hours Jesus was always with me. Even when I behaved as a spoiled demanding brat He was there correcting me,loving me, and caring for me. I have repented for ever thinking the thoughts that I had. Who was I to think that I had a right to demand anything of the Lord? His holiness, His righteousness is beyond my human understanding, how could I ever presume to stand before Him and hold anger toward Him as if He had done some kind of wrong to me? Now all I can see is my beloved Jesus on that cross, my sin having placed Him there, and my heart just weeps over my sin and weakness. His love for me is so consuming that I can not help but love Him in return.

God is so good though, and His love and mercy covers me and I know that He strengthens me during all of life trails. I have had times when I feel over whelmed and have come under attack, but I take those thoughts captive to the Lord now and I rejoice because He is faithful, He is capable, and He will see me through in all things.

God Bless
maryjane

The anger I'm thinking of is not rebellion or wrath. It's the utter disappointment and heartbreak one feels when one expected God to do one thing, only to be served something else. . . . Jesus felt this in his ministry as He hung on the cross. "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

It is in the expectation that the problem arises and it is in the expectation that our selfishness is exposed. Our anger should be at ourselves, not God. It should be at ourselves for wanting anything that might be outside of the will of God. It should be at ourselves for not crucifying that which is of the flesh.

If we can't get mad at Him, then it shows we probably aren't really in a strong relationship with him to begin with. Even Jesus felt this: "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Are you saying Jesus was mad...as in angry?

Heartsong I must say that I am in some agreement with you here. I haven’t commented in a while about anything on this forum but I felt a need to here.

Jimmy, I have enjoyed a lot you have written and realize that you are well schooled in many areas but I have also noticed you seem to have an answer to just about everything. I have notice that you can make a strong comment and reprimand just about anyone even David Wilkerson when you have not been able to walk in his shoes nor have you had the burden that he carries in the Lord. Now here you have made a judgment call concerning whether people have a strong relationship with the Lord.

Brother I have a strong relationship with the Lord, but I want it to be even stronger, and I would be afraid to make some of the comments you have made. I fear and Love God at the same time, and to have a strong relationship with Him, we would have to be living and walking in the Spirit. I don’t see how a person could be mad with God unless he was in the flesh. God does not operate according to our agenda so there should be no forcing God to do what we want him to do, for that would be of the flesh. We are to submit to God and not God submitting to us.

I don’t know why you would use the scripture were Jesus was asking his Father from the cross why He had forsaken him as to try to imply that He was mad with his Father. Again I would fear the very thought of wanting anyone to even think that way.

Brother you may know more about theology but I will have to disagree.

Blessings to all!

"My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"

Perhaps I have been approaching the Kingdom of God from the wrong direction...

God commanded the Old Testament prophets to preach to the kingdoms of Israel and Judah, a message of repentance... while He knew they would not repent.

Jesus stood outside of Jerusalem, and cried out, 'O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!.'

My question was, how do we resolve the tension of the Father's role of election, and the sovereign work of the Spirit of God, and prayer for the souls of loved ones who will not turn to the Truth...

What I have learned so far from scripture is that prayer is an attitude of approach to the throne of God, opposed to attempting to change the will of God...

Maybe I really am a humanist at heart, preaching the word of God more for the salvation of people rather than God being glorified through preaching whether people go to hell or not...

How do Calvinists resolve the tension between election and praying for souls?

That's an easy one(at least in my view).

God commands us to pray for the lost and to share the Gospel with them, BUT He is the only one who knows who are elect. We are not asked to figure out who the elect are and only preach to them, but we are called to share with every tribe, tongue, and nation because out of these, God has elected an amount of people that no man can number.

As for the being angry with God question, yes I have been. It has been especially hard in the situation with my wife and her leaving almost two years ago. It has caused many questions and many nights of simply weeping like a baby.

There are times when I do not understand ow God would let this happen, and then a quick realization that I deserve much worse but my good Father is working things for His pleasure.

The anger is not the same as that of an unbeliever, but instead is a feeling of desperation and confusion.

I sometimes feel run through the proverbial ringer and start feeling bitterness start to grab root. I get disillusioned when I see chaos and rampant deception seemingly coming like a flood and wonder what is going on. Physically I've taken a pounding and wonder if I can live up to all of my obligations as a Father, Husband, employee, and lastly but certainly foremost in my life a Man of God. Total failure seems like one small event away... And although it's not good to feel this way, I can't deny it's existence.

Yes, I can relate. I am not a husband or a father but I am a wife, mother and grandmother and not all of our children are walking with the LORD. AND that can be a source of anger: God why did you give us children when you knew they would spurn you? WHY??!!! Unless you know the deep emotions and feelings that dog a parent under these circumstances, please be kind....no parent or child of God wants to feel angry with God but these emotions do come - unbidden.

Have y'all ever considered King David when he was angry with God? 2 Samuel 6:8 says David became angry (NASB) with God. And we never read that David was rebuked by a prophet for it. Does this mean this should become the norm for Believers when things bad things happen? No, but if you have any sense of holiness and see it being violated with no justice forthcoming, one can get angry with God BUT you do not stay there. This may make the difference.

Blessings to one and all and I am not angry with you if you happen to disagree with me..

ginnyrose

Ginnyrose said:

2 Samuel 6:8 says David became angry (NASB) with God. And we never read that David was rebuked by a prophet for it. [b]Does this mean this should become the norm for Believers when things bad things happen? No, but if you have any sense of holiness and see it being violated with no justice forthcoming, one can get angry with God BUT you do not stay there[/b]. This may make the difference.

But if anyone makes a statement that promotes such a mistake (anger at God) as being a spiritual thing to encouraged, as KingJimmy did, he needs to be corrected.

KingJimmy said:

Sometimes, [b]I think it is perfectly natural and ok to be angry with God. In fact, I think it is down right spiritual[/b]. If we can't get mad at Him, then it shows we probably aren't really in a strong relationship with him to begin with.

Remember that it is not just us members who read these threads. Each time you log in, you will notice that there are 40 to 60 guests reading the forum when only 4 to 6 members are online. The accusation (by Natan4Jesus) that some of us are going overboard in our zeal for correct doctrine is uncalled for. If there were no guests reading, I could easily let such posts go by unanswered. But since there are at least 10 guests for each member that posts in these forums, we should be vigilant about what we post, and not allow any dangerously skewed statements, like that above, to go uncorrected.

Exactly the way this was stated makes all the difference, ginnyrose. I don't think anyone here would begrudge a brother or sister the occasional slip in their walk with God, for we all make mistakes and we all need God's forgiveness.

Brother, I hate to split hairs over doctrine - it is truly a pet peeve of mine. However....

The kind of anger I am referring to is not the kind that is sinful. To suggest this is a 'slip' is not the case of being weak. It is an annoyance, if this makes sense.

In one's walk with God there will come situations where you really wonder about the wisdom of God. There is not a chance a person will forsake God because of lack of understanding but because some things do not make sense in any form or fashion. Consider small innocent children who have been abused, violated for no reason at all. You will get angry- at the perpetrators, at the devil and at God for allowing it to happen - at God because you feel like He could have prevented it if he chose to do so but he didn't. So how will you deal with these emotions? They happen. For some it will be the vehicle from which they will ride away from God, but for the Believer it will [eventually] become an act of faith in that he will believe that God still has things in control.

Leo, are we on the same page or are we talking past each other?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Thanks Ccrider for clarification. Also, sorry Jimmy that, I didn’t read your other post but what you stated on your first post about being mad was spiritual bothered me. It also bothered me about what you said about David Wilkerson the other day but that is between you and the Lord and I’m sorry for bringing it up.

Also to everyone, I am not saying that Christians don’t sometimes get mad with God but I am only saying that there is never a justification for it. It is always from the flesh and never from the spirit of God.

I believe that David did get mad but David was in the wrong. God had specific instructions on how the Ark was supposed to be carried and when David had the priests to carry the Ark like God said to do it then he was able to be bless with the presence of God.

It is the pride of our own hearts that cause us to get angry with God and God is so merciful and forgiving to us when we humble ourselves before him.

Romans 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

I also want to apologize to Jimmy or anyone else who I have disagreed with in the past. I apologize for being so plain about it and making it sound like I know more than the other person. We are all still learning and sometimes we are just looking at it in a different angle. I have decided to almost quit posting and even if I don’t agree with someone, to not be so quick to make a judgment but to learn more about what is being discussed.

I think there is more pride in us all than we really realize because if there wasn’t, we wouldn’t want to be right or heard all the time over others. I appreciate Jimmy and everyone on here for the challenge you have given to me to be formed to the image of Christ. I hope to be more of a help to everyone in the future than to be critical of you.

Blessings to all!

Greetings ginnyrose

Thank you for sharing your heart with us. I do understand what you are sharing about your children. It is difficult to see any close family member that we love reject the Lord knowing where they will spend their eternity. I know that I have prayed on many occasions for my mom and my dad(when he was still with us) that they would repent of the lies they held from the RCC and seek Jesus. There have been times since my dad died that I have for a brief time given thought to where is he now? The enemy uses these thoughts to drive a wedge between myself and the Father. If I allowed self to dwell on these thoughts I could see myself feeling angry with the Lord, but I have come to see how important it is to take these kinds of thoughts captive and submit them unto His will. I also know that while I love my mother very much if in the end she leaves this life still rejecting Jesus and holding to the lies of the RCC then there is no one to blame but her, she has chosen whom to follow. I love my children to and I pray that they will walk with the Lord daily living for Him only, but when all is said and done, they to have a choice and if they reject Him then they deserve hell.

For me personally I am learning to see things this way, if I being a sinful person can love my children and mom how much more then must God love them.His love after all is perfect, while mine is flawed. Also I see that if I am grieved and heartbroken over their loss, how very much more the Lord must be grieved over it. After all He is our Father so He more then anyone of us understands how the heart aches for a lost child.

For me this is where my heart is at, and I agree with what you shared, it does come down to trusting Him with these things and just knowing that He is in control. I am learning that in all things I have to just have faith that He is God and lay it down at His feet.

God Bless
maryjane

ginnyrose,

I believe we are on the same page. In fact I was agreeing with the way you posted, although it seems I wasn't clear enough in my response.

You said:

one can get angry with God BUT you do not stay there

I was contrasting your post with this one by Jimmy:

I think it is perfectly natural and ok to be angry with God. In fact, I think it is down right spiritual.

As I said earlier, if only members could read these posts, and I feel I know enough about most of you to be confident that this statement by Jimmy would not cause anyone to stumble, I could easily remain silent. But there are always around 40 to 60 guests online reading these threads whom we know nothing about. That is why I always feel the need to respond with a correction whenever something that could cause others to stumble is posted.

I know that Jimmy qualified his meaning of anger in the next paragraph, but the statement that I isolated in the above quote is not OK.

I hope you and the other members understand.

We are all still learning and sometimes we are just looking at it in a different angle. I have decided to almost quit posting and even if I don’t agree with someone, to not be so quick to make a judgment but to learn more about what is being discussed.

Amen.

Thanks for sharing your last post brother rbanks.

You have been a blessing more times than you know.

Natan4Jesus wrote:
elder brother, I meant no offense, really what I should have boiled it down to this, in my opinion, on a cyber forum, heavier on the Grace, lighter on the zeal...due respect. God knows how you cleve to His Word, His Economy, His Sovereignity. Forgive me if it seemed like I was lecturing.

Yes, the world is watching, and it feels to me, that if someone veers from what the majority think, or pronounce, they are treated as Jesus' disciples walking thru a wheatfield on Sabbath, munching wheat berries...I dont mean YOU, just in general.

the world is watching, and I beg your forgiveness, but I felt that I forthtold rather than accuse.

the world is watching, and I ask this, of anyone who reads my post, Do the words "the elect", or "election" have anything to do with this "calvinism"? (and please, for the sake of witness, I'm not trying to start a shoving match about "calvinism")

When I hear talk of "pre-destination" (is that calvinism?) when I hear this talk, I think of King Hezekiah, and Isaiah, and God seeing the King's bitter tears, or I think of Moses' intercession, when God was getting ready to rain fire down on the heads of the 12 tribes.

When I think of man, a mere wisp, a blade of grass, trying to divine the Mind of God, its akin to chasing molecules thru a room, or describing in quantifible terms, what wood smoke smells like......who can discern the Mind of God? We cant even understand the human heart, deceitful beyond cure, how so the Mind of God?

But Leo, older brother, I meant no offense.

neil

Dear Neil,

I know you meant no offense, and none was taken. Aside from my fear of others (guests) stumbling over things posted in this forum, I do agree that it would be best for all to ease off a bit from maintaining tight doctrinal lines, especially those that are truly non essential.

If I have offended anyone by my "zeal" in this thread, I do apologize also from my heart. I'm very sorry, Jimmy, if I was somewhat harsh in my comments. From reading all your many posts, I have come to know many of you who have contributed to this thread, and I can say with confidence that we all share one Spirit and bow to one Lord.

One tends to mellow immediately when called an "older brother". :-) Good tactic, Neil.

In Christ,
Leo

Leo, thanks for the clarification.

if I being a sinful person can love my children and mom how much more then must God love them.His love after all is perfect, while mine is flawed. Also I see that if I am grieved and heartbroken over their loss, how very much more the Lord must be grieved over it. After all He is our Father so He more then anyone of us understands how the heart aches for a lost child.

Exactly. When you have loved ones spurning the love of God and it angers you, somehow one can easier understand God's anger at sin. And you know He will work in whatever way possible to change things and if things don't happen - like repentance - you know the individual [i]chose[/i] not to.

There is a lot of grief over loved ones spurning God. You pray and pray with no visible results AND there is no comfort coming from God about this situation, either. Ever think about that? I have concluded it is because God is grieved as well. In the end it all comes back to surrender for us - all have the privilege to choose and if they refuse to make wise choices there is nothing one can do to make them do otherwise.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Greetings ginnyrose

you wrote:There is a lot of grief over loved ones spurning God. You pray and pray with no visible results AND there is no comfort coming from God about this situation, either. Ever think about that? I have concluded it is because God is grieved as well. In the end it all comes back to surrender for us - all have the privilege to choose and if they refuse to make wise choices there is nothing one can do to make them do otherwise.
_____

I agree completely with what you shared here. This has been my heart in these kinds of situation for awhile now. Thank you again for sharing.

God Bless you
mj

LOL. Well, this thread really took off on its own didn't it? I'm glad we've worked out all of our differences, and seem to be pretty much on the same page. No offense is taken by anybody who feels like they might have offended me, and I hope you all believe I sought to offend none in anything I have said. :-)

Being so much has been said since my original response, I can't possibly hope to respond to each reply. So, I'll attempt to just make a general reply. I hope nobody minds.

I think ccirder really expressed the sentiment of my heart on this issue the best in one of their posts. The "anger" I speak of is definitely the hurt, confusion, desperation, etc. that arises when something happens, usually something major, in a way that just takes us for an awful surprise and shock to our system (even if we saw it coming). Please don't get me wrong, I am definitely not advocating we stay in such a place. Christ definitely has no intention we stay in such a place either: "I have come to bind up the broken-hearted." And each time I felt angry towards God over a situation, healing was definitely brought into my heart.

James says for us "to be angry, but sin not." While contextually he is definitely speaking about how we deal with one another in our interpersonal relationships, I believe we can extract this same principle in relationship to God. While we can definitely be angry at God in such a way that is without a doubt sinful, I believe we can also be angry with God at a way that is not sinful.

This anger is definitely something that issues out of the frustration of the soul of an individual who loves God, but can't help but feel pained towards Him in some way by whatever has caused this emotion. Is it selfish? I don't think so. I think it's simply called being human. It's our finite attempt to try and process and grasp something beyond our own human ability, which causes us, for lack of a better term, to "short-circuit" at the time.

But, I believe such is ultimately calculated by God to teach us something, "in the school of the Spirit," that we could not otherwise have learned. No doubt, the two times I have felt angry towards God, God taught me some things I really needed to know that I did not otherwise know, and birthed something in me that was not there before. These were definitely times of growth.

Ultimately, and time does not afford me the opportunity to be as detailed as I'd like, I believe these things must be wrestled out in the Scriptures. If you were to closely study some of the Psalms, and look at the rather raw content of some of them, namely, the one's written during the exile, you will definitely see this "anger" I talk about, expressed through a divinely inspired prophetic utterance, and recorded for us all to see.

Thankfully, as mentioned earlier, God does not desire we in anyway live in such a state forever. The trial always comes to an end. But during that period, we are going to have some very personal and very raw and very real emotions that come from us, that I think, need not be viewed as sinful, but rather, just as us being "real" with God. And where else but in prayer can we be more real with God than anywhere else? I think that's what we read in the Scriptures from time to time.

Many blessings.

Dear brother,

It is a very dangerous thing to not call "sin" sin. It is no laughing matter and I am somewhat taken back by your hesitancy to call it what it is. If one does not view it as sin, which it most certainly is, one will not repent - and if there is no repentance, there is no forgiveness - and if there is no forgiveness it is likely that a root of bitterness will begin to grow.

Your attempts at self justification is a sign that there is already a problem. I will be in prayer for you. Please search your heart on the matter. Ask the Lord to shine His light on the problem - that you may see it for what it is - that you may see it as He sees it.

Heartsong,

Thank you for your concern. But, seriously consider that it if is indeed sinful to feel this way, then several of the Psalms we have in the Scriptures are not prophetically inspired utterances. Have you really considered the raw emotion expressed in books such as the Psalms? Since I've mentioned it several times, I'll try to supply a text or two:

Psalm 13:1 How long, O LORD? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart? How long will my enemy triumph over me? Look on me and answer, O LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death; my enemy will say, "I have overcome him," and my foes will rejoice when I fall. But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation. I will sing to the LORD, for he has been good to me (Psalm 13:1-6).

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people (Psalm 22:1-6).

We should not sugar coat these emotions. These were real and painful emotions the Psalmist expressed. They express a broken heart of a man who has come to his end as a man. He is angry at the world. He is angry at God. Yet, a prophetically inspired anger, non-sinful anger.

HeartSong,

Have you read Jimmy's post carefully? Seems to me you must be misunderstanding him...May I be so bold to suggest that you read it out-loud to yourself - sometimes reading thus, hearing your own voice you will catch a word or phrase you missed earlier. I did that last week. A brother and I were talking past each other and when I started to read these posts outloud to my husband my error became evident.

HeartSong, I appreciate your concern...

ginnyrose

KingJimmy wrote:
Heartsong,

Thank you for your concern. But, seriously consider that it if is indeed sinful to feel this way, then several of the Psalms we have in the Scriptures are not prophetically inspired utterances. Have you really considered the raw emotion expressed in books such as the Psalms? Since I've mentioned it several times, I'll try to supply a text or two:

Psalm 13:1 How long, O LORD? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart? How long will my enemy triumph over me? Look on me and answer, O LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death; my enemy will say, "I have overcome him," and my foes will rejoice when I fall. But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation. I will sing to the LORD, for he has been good to me (Psalm 13:1-6).

Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent. Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; you are the praise of Israel. In you our fathers put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by men and despised by the people (Psalm 22:1-6).

We should not sugar coat these emotions. These were real and painful emotions the Psalmist expressed. They express a broken heart of a man who has come to his end as a man. He is angry at the world. He is angry at God. Yet, a prophetically inspired anger, non-sinful anger.

"How long, O LORD? Will you forget me forever? How long will you hide your face from me? How long must I wrestle with my thoughts and every day have sorrow in my heart? How long will my enemy triumph over me? Look on me and answer, O LORD my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death; my enemy will say, "I have overcome him," and my foes will rejoice when I fall. But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation. I will sing to the LORD, for he has been good to me." - Psalm 13:1-6

I do not read this as having anger toward God. He trusts in the love of the Lord. His heart rejoices in the Lord, He sings to the Lord. Earlier in the verses he is lamenting that the enemy has put sorrow in his heart and is calling it a triumph of the enemy. It is this sorrow that is separating him from God. I do not see any anger toward God in these verses – he is [i][u]longing[/u][/i] for God.

[u][b]WAKE UP![/b][/u] Ask yourself – Why is it so hard to call it sin?!? What do you have to lose? Your pride? Your reputation? Whose voice is it that is telling you that anger toward God is not sin?

Would it not be easier to just confess your anger as sin? - rather than to run around in circles trying to justify it?

Ultimately I think there will always be a sense of discontent on this side of glory.

I find myself several times in prayer just speechless and kneeling in silence.

What can I say that God does not know? What can I offer that God does not have? What can I do that God does not need? God does not need anything from me...

I often ask in a joking manner... God why are you so incomprehensible, so uncontainable, so indescribable? He leaves me breathless, speechless, excuse-less.

His ways are not our ways, and I believe eternal glory will be exactly this. A chasing down of the person of God, in an intimate relationship with Him.

I believe Jimmy's attitude of 'anger' is not so much 'anger' AT God, but more of a frustration of self, because our severe limitations, in our finite being, unable to comprehend the fullness of God's wisdom.

-edit-

Upon further consideration... could it even be possible to be angry at the true God of scripture? Would it not be an idol that we have set up in our minds, an then labeled as Jehovah? To pontificate that God is some sort of being worthy of our anger and indignation... If we were to consider the grace and mercy revealed through our Lord Jesus Christ... It would quickly straighten us out.

The only reason we would be angry is because we think something is not right; things ought not to be done this way. If I were God, I would have done it differently. But as I stated earlier, this is due to a limited revelation of God; and lack of intimate relationship with Him.

I could be wrong; always open to correction.

God bless.

How we Christians yearn for the day to 'shuffle off this mortal coil' and fly into eternity!

:-)

yearn we indeed!!!! aaaaahhh!!!

so, waaaaaay back on p. 5 someone wrote this:

"Must admit I am currently becoming disillusioned, and regret praying 'God, at any cost, make me more like Jesus Christ.'"

this really struck me, because i feel i am perhaps kicking against the goads also. even though He has said clearly we'd be hated, i'm always hurt and confused when someone opposes me. even though He said we'd be flogged where? in the synagogues, i'm always hurt and confused when church people get so mad at me. sometimes i cry and cry. many days i am anguished, asking "have i said wrong? am i too much? am i offending, or is it the gospel?" i have to check myself for humility in trying to help others, pray more, and speak less. but the truth is the truth, and humanity hates it.

what is disillusioned is our flesh. our brainwashed hearts that think we can serve God and be liked and have it "my way". it HURTS to die to self. it HURTS to live in no more "mine". it HURTS to give up having the security of being loved by other people. it HURTS to get slapped in the face over and over again by everyone and their mom and to preach the Truth to no avail, to be so deeply rejected and in continual emotional pain...but God, and what He gives-the joy set before us-can and will overcome the flesh, because by the Spirit, we put to death the flesh. out of love for our Husband, His bride will serve Him in humility and reverence.

everything in me fights the way of the cross, because the way of the cross is death to all things mine. but if He has saved me truly, then i must learn that there is no more mine. but i do know the joy of Him also...and there is no thing that could compare with that.

we prayed for Him to conform us to His Son at any cost. but none of us knew, bold as we were, that the cost would be our very hearts, minds, selves. we did have ANY idea of deep this would cut. but cutting is the only way to grafting.

so yes, at any cost, Lord, transform Your people...only please, please give us the strength to love You in it, in our culture where there is so little pain or work needed, help us please to un-learn all the lies we've been taught of an easy and "happy" life, but that we would run the race and fight the good fight for Your glory! that we would see that true joy in You outweighs "happiness"! please, Lord, please let us persevere and overcome!!! that we might be with You there in the place You are preparing for us!!! o, God, let it be so!!! let us serve You with joy and honor You with death!

may the Lamb receive the reward of His suffering. and with joy, yes, JOY, may we take up our cross and follow Him.

with all the love i can give out of this weakened heart,
holly