Obama declares swine flu a national emergency

And so it continues...

I hope everyone is persevering in prayer and getting in the Word of God.

It only gets worse from here folks.

Oh Lord, oh Lord, we are setting the unborn baby killer loose on the babies that have been born . . . oh Lord, have mercy on our souls.

The darkness deepens.

and speed treatment for thousands of infected people.

Who? I'd like to know where all these "thousands" of people are, and how the medical authorities can differentiate between this supposed "swine flu" and the many other (and much more dangerous) types of flus prevalent today.

The goal is to remove bureaucratic roadblocks and make it easier for sick people to seek treatment and medical providers to provide it immediately.

By this, of course, they mean vaccinations. I fear the swine flu vaccine much more than the swine flu itself. Google "dangerous swine flu vaccine" and you will find miriad pages warning of the dangers of this toxic concotion that has caused damage to thousands of people worldwide.

May God help us.

Curious as to how many people have seen the video of the 25 year old cheerleader that has come down with dxyonia; after taking the vaccination?

Breaks my heart seeing her life ruined.

Hi BrotherTom...

I agree. Every vaccine (and medicine) carries a risk. However, the risk is often much greater for NOT taking a vaccine (or medicine). I have known several people (including believers) who have contracted the swine flu. It is very real...and very dangerous (especially for children and the elderly). Just last week, a healthy 30-something male died from the swine flu...just three weeks after a physical examination that determined that he was in great health. The biggest concern of health professionals is that this swine flu outbreak could grow into a pandemic.

During World War I, there was a flu pandemic that killed more people than the war itself. The CDC estimates that 50 million people died from the 1918 outbreak. Further, they estimate that 500 Million people were infected -- at a time in which there were only 1.6 Billion people on Earth. So, nearly 1/3 of human beings on Earth were infected. 1 out of every 10 people who contracted the flu actually died from the outbreak. There was a much smaller pandemic during 1968-1969. It was known as the Hong Kong Flu, and killed an estimated 1 Million people around the world.

What makes this particular outbreak so interesting is that it originated in North America, in Mexico. Most major flu pandemics have started in the Far East. Even the 1918 Pandemic, known as the Spanish Flu, probably started in China or India. In fact, India was hit particularly hard by the 1918 pandemic, with approximately 17 Million deaths. The current Swine Flu has quickly spread around North America and elsewhere around the world.

With every flu vaccine, there are limited cases of individuals who have a bad reaction. However, these are few and far between...and the risk of NOT being vaccinated is often much higher than the risk from vaccination itself. I have known plenty of people who were vaccinated -- including children -- and I have yet to hear of a single adverse reaction yet. In my wife's hometown, the flu vaccine was offered to all school children. There has not been a single reported complication from the vaccine in that area. I did find a couple of possible fatalities that *might have been related to the Swine Flu vaccine. However, there have been over 1000 people who have died from the Swine Flu. It seems that the risk of NOT being vaccinated is much higher.

As far as President Obama's attempt to raise this to a "national emergency," this seems to only have been done as a means to bypass the length of time that it might take to receive treatment. I don't suspect anything "sinister" from it, and I hope that it will not be used as political ammunition during the Administration's attempt to reform health care. I simply think that it is a wise thing to do since this could be a potential danger to people in this nation.

This current outbreak, with 1000 deaths in the US, isn't nearly as expansive as the 50 Million worldwide deaths from the 1918 pandemic. It isn't even comparable with the Black Death pandemic that hit Europe in 1348 (and killed approximately 45-60% of the people in Europe). However, I think that the vaccine is just an attempt to prevent something like that from happening again.

I also agree with those who consider abortion during these times. Abortion kills far more human beings than any war...and any flu pandemic. Even though the number of abortions declined quite a bit over the past eight years in the United States, there were still approximately 800,000 abortions last year. These are government permitted murders at the hand of "doctors" who have ignored the Hippocratic Oath to "do no harm." These deaths don't come from a virus...or a disease...but from the selfishness of women who don't want to take the responsibility for the children that God has given them.

Those people involved in that slaughter -- whether the abortion physicians, the politicians and activist judges who fight for the continued slaughter, or the mothers who open their wombs and sacrifice their children upon the altar of selfishness -- will all stand before the Throne of God one day. I just pray that they cry out to God before that great and terrible day. The incredible thing about God? He is willing to offer His love and forgiveness to anyone who calls out to Him in truth.

Those people involved in that slaughter -- whether the abortion physicians, the politicians and activist judges who fight for the continued slaughter, or the mothers who open their wombs and sacrifice their children upon the altar of selfishness -- will all stand before the Throne of God one day.

I just pray that they cry out to God before that great and terrible day.

Will you pray and ask Him to reveal to you what it is that I am talking about?

What ccchhhrrriiisss presents are the typical arguments from the medical establishment. You can believe that if you want to, but I would encourage people to do their own investigative research on the matter, and find out both sides of the story, in order to make an educated decision as to whether or not they should take the swine flu vaccine.

The fact of the matter is, there is significant evidence linking autism and other serious neurological conditions to vaccines. Practically all vaccines contain toxic chemicals and heavy metals such as thimerosal (mercury), aluminum, formaldehyde, and even monosodium glutamate (MSG)! The reason why there generally are little "reported complications" from vaccines is that the medical community does little to no follow-up on patients after receiving vaccines. In some cases, should any complications arise, doctors typically assume they are a result of something else. After all, they couldn't [i]possibly[/i] be linked to the vaccine they have recently taken...

Another important fact is that this swine flu vaccine--much like the one mass-produced in 1976--has been rushed to the market. In 1976 there was a similar swine flu scare, and the pharmaceutical industry quickly produced the "antidote" to the supposed pandemic threat. There was a massive propaganda campaign warning you to take the coming vaccine...or else! However, it turned out to be a huge fiasco, resulting in lawsuits totaling $1.3 million from vaccine victims, hundreds of serious complications nationwide, and 25 deaths. It was a total failure. And worse still: the swine flu failed to even materialize!

The last fact I'll mention is that current Homeland Security laws prohibit independent scientists from seeing the original strain of swine flu, or how it was identified and obtained. So outside the research of the World Health Organization, there is no evidence the swine flu even exists! We're just supposed to trust the WHO and the multi-million dollar pharmaceutical industry, and take them at their word. So how do we know that the current swine flu deaths were not a result of other factors? How do we know that the people that reportedly contracted swine flu do not merely have another general type of flu? These are serious questions to consider.

Again, do your own research. Ask the Lord for wisdom in making important decisions like wether or not to take the vaccine. Remember that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil (1 Tim. 6:10). The average doctor may be sincere and concerned for people's health, but at a corporate level, the industry is concerned with only one thing: profit. We should expect no less from a radically depraved world.

Hi HeartSong...

You also will stand before the Throne of God and should consider the words that you have just used to encourage others the rely upon the ways of man rather than God.

....

The problem is, they do not think that they have done anything wrong, just like you do not think that you have done anything wrong.

What are you referring to? What was wrong with what I wrote?

Those are extremely strong words that you have directed at me...and I can't even pretend to know why?

Will you pray and ask Him to reveal to you what it is that I am talking about?

I've prayed about it...but it would be much easier if you would say it yourself. Seriously, what are you talking about?

:-(

Greetings

My experience with this has been really strange I will admit. My oldest son became very sick suddenly on a Tuesday afternoon, over three weeks ago. By Thursday of that week we went to the doctor. the doctor on call said he had bronchitis. She gave him antibiotics and told him to stay home and rest. On the following Monday he was still coughing and it sounded nasty(being a mom so long you learn to have an ear for certain kinds of cough). I knew my son needed an inhaler because his cough sounded exactly like mine(i have asthma) This time it was a different doctor and she said that my son had H1N1 flu virus and that he had to be home from work all week to rest, take a new antibiotic, and she did give him an inhaler for his cough to open his air ways. I asked her why the other doctor said it was bronchitis and she said that they were told by the government and CDC to just treat everyone with similar symptoms as if it was H1N1 with out testing them because that was the kind of influenza out there right now. My son stayed home rested and drank tons of fluids and after a week felt much better, however he still has the asthmatic cough lingering. He never did take the antibiotic she prescribed because the side effects made him feel worse then the illness, so he just used the inhaler to help him breath. That brings us to this week when my younger son got sick(he shares a room with my older boy) so I took him into the doctor on Monday and was expecting to get a bunch of medicines. This third doctor(our regular doctor) said that my son was sick with a head cold and that it would clear up all on its own, he just needed to rest and drink lots of fluids. So that was three different doctors all saying different things. At this point whatever it was that they both had does not seem any more worse then normal flu's and colds that they have had any other year. And my other two boys are still symptom free so I don't know how contagious what they had was. I am not saying that there are not people who have had really serious illnesses, but I do think that there is a certain amount of panic out there over this as well. I think each one should pray and seek the Lord in what is best to do.

God Bless
mj

oh for the record we will not be getting the flu shots:-)

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:

Every vaccine (and medicine) carries a risk. However, the risk is often much greater for NOT taking a vaccine (or medicine).

Immunity only comes from a body being exposed to the problem (flu) and then the body building it's own immunities to it! Vaccinations stop this natural process and makes our bodies weaker.
*** This has such spiritual ramifications that it's not funny.

I recommend to NO ONE that they receive these vaccinations or ANY for that matter.

[url=http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/The-Herd-Immunity-Theory-Treating-Our-Children-Like-Cattle]The Herd Immunity Theory - Treating Our Children Like Cattle[/url]

As far as President Obama's attempt to raise this to a "national emergency," this seems to only have been done as a means to bypass the length of time that it might take to receive treatment.

(edit) Personally, I do not believe in vaccines but there are safety reasons that it takes about two and a half years to come up with a vaccination. They must test it and retest it FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PEOPLE. I see absolutely no regard for the people in this decision to bypass safety features and rush out a vaccination without trials. Total lack of care for the people. (unedit)

I did find a couple of possible fatalities that *might have been related to the Swine Flu vaccine. However, there have been over 1000 people who have died from the Swine Flu. It seems that the risk of NOT being vaccinated is much higher.

Who are the supposedly 1000 that have died?
How old were these people?
What was their health BEFORE contracting [b]supposedly[/b] H1N1 swine flu virus?

Washington (flu mongers) is rushing to judgment about
....1 the severity of the flu without this information!
....2 the supposed NEED of a vaccine!

There are scientists who want this information but they are not getting it.

[url=http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/24/CBS-Reveals-that-Swine-Flu-Cases-Seriously-Overestimated.aspx]CBS Reveals that Swine Flu Cases Seriously Overestimated [/url]

God bless you!

nearthecross wrote:
What ccchhhrrriiisss presents are the typical arguments from the medical establishment. You can believe that if you want to, but I would encourage people to do their own investigative research on the matter, and find out both sides of the story, in order to make an educated decision as to whether or not they should take the swine flu vaccine.

The fact of the matter is, there is significant evidence linking autism and other serious neurological conditions to vaccines. Practically all vaccines contain toxic chemicals and heavy metals such as thimerosal (mercury), aluminum, formaldehyde, and even monosodium glutamate (MSG)! The reason why there generally are little "reported complications" from vaccines is that the medical community does little to no follow-up on patients after receiving vaccines. In some cases, should any complications arise, doctors typically assume they are a result of something else. After all, they couldn't [i]possibly[/i] be linked to the vaccine they have recently taken...

Another important fact is that this swine flu vaccine--much like the one mass-produced in 1976--has been rushed to the market. In 1976 there was a similar swine flu scare, and the pharmaceutical industry quickly produced the "antidote" to the supposed pandemic threat. There was a massive propaganda campaign warning you to take the coming vaccine...or else! However, it turned out to be a huge fiasco, resulting in lawsuits totaling $1.3 million from vaccine victims, hundreds of serious complications nationwide, and 25 deaths. It was a total failure. And worse still: the swine flu failed to even materialize!

The last fact I'll mention is that current Homeland Security laws prohibit independent scientists from seeing the original strain of swine flu, or how it was identified and obtained. So outside the research of the World Health Organization, there is no evidence the swine flu even exists! We're just supposed to trust the WHO and the multi-million dollar pharmaceutical industry, and take them at their word. So how do we know that the current swine flu deaths were not a result of other factors? How do we know that the people that reportedly contracted swine flu do not merely have another general type of flu? These are serious questions to consider.

Again, do your own research. Ask the Lord for wisdom in making important decisions like wether or not to take the vaccine. Remember that the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil (1 Tim. 6:10). The average doctor may be sincere and concerned for people's health, but at a corporate level, the industry is concerned with only one thing: profit. We should expect no less from a radically depraved world.

[b]If I had known then what I know now about vaccinations, I would have filed the necessary religious forms and never had my children vaccinated for anything.[/b]

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71BbsjsyfsU]Swine Flu Scare - Old Lies of the CDC (short version)[/url]

Last quote from video: "I will not take another shot the government tells me to take."

From Fox News Oct 24, 2009
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw&NR=1]Doctor Admits Vaccine Is More Deadly Than Swine Flu Itself[/url]
"I have more concern about the vaccine than I do about the swine flu..." doctor stated at 1.40-1.45 mark.

I found out recently that I had a baby sister aborted. She would be 12 years old if she wasn't killed.

Don't come here and tell me that God will not judge the man or woman that dismembered her alive.

Don't you raise a finger to defend the slaughter of innocent children; in order to justify some of your own sin.

Disgusting.

greetings IWantAnguish

You wrote:I found out recently that I had a baby sister aborted. She would be 12 years old if she wasn't killed.

Don't come here and tell me that God will not judge the man or woman that dismembered her alive.

Don't you raise a finger to defend the slaughter of innocent children; in order to justify some of your own sin.

Disgusting.
____

I am confused by your post brother, who are you directing it to?

God Bless
maryjane

The problem is, they do not think that they have done anything wrong, just like you do not think that you have done anything wrong.

I was referring to HeartSong's post in reply to Chris.

If I misinterpreted his post, I apologize.

From what I could derive from the reply, was that Chris was in the wrong for stating that abortionists would be judged by God.

In response to the original post:

"He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say to the LORD, 'My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.' He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler. You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the destruction that wastes at noonday. A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you." (Ps. 91:1-7)

"But whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster." (Pro 1:33)

"For the righteous will never be moved; he will be remembered forever. He is not afraid of bad news; his heart is firm, trusting in the LORD." (Ps. 112:6-7)

Greetings IWantAnguish

I can not speak for Chris directly but I can say that he has always, always spoken out a against abortion and very strongly I might add. I can't see him ever giving anyone a free pass on abortion or defending anyone that is involved in that situation.

I did take issue with this part of your post though Chris. You wrote:Those people involved in that slaughter -- whether the abortion physicians, the politicians and activist judges who fight for the continued slaughter, or the mothers who open their wombs and sacrifice their children upon the altar of selfishness -- will all stand before the Throne of God one day. I just pray that they cry out to God before that great and terrible day. The incredible thing about God? He is willing to offer His love and forgiveness to anyone who calls out to Him in truth.
____

My tiny little issue is that you did not included the men who father these children. They are just as much responsible and accountable as the women are, and they also will give an account one day before the Lord. I know there some few men who care very much and want to help support their wives, girlfriends in these times and not have their babies aborted, but sadly the majority of men involved either drive them to the clinic to insure the abortion is done or they disappear all together. These men who do not help or care are just as account able for the murder of these unborn babies as the women.

God bless
maryjane

edit: I will add this, I think it is very telling that the developers of this vaccine and members of the federal government have been granted immunity from any lawsuits or claims that may result because of side effects or deaths.

Wow. Correct me if I am wrong, but are people on this thread opposed to all/most/some vaccinations? If this is the case, then upon what evidence are you basing this position?

I know and have read many thoughts by people who are opposed to some vaccinations...[i]but a flu vaccine[/i]? The swine flu vaccine is just another flu vaccine that is directed to prevent this particular strain of swine flu. Influenza vaccines are inarguably effective against the flu. The number of flu victims has dropped dramatically in nations that have adopted quick flu vaccination programs.

In fact, vaccination programs have been effective for other things too. The polio vaccination has almost eradicated polio -- which was a disease that horribly affected many people in the United States and around the world each year and led to countless deaths, disfigurations and permanent disabilities. Vaccines have effectively stopped the bubonic plague, smallpox, cholera, hepatitis A, diphtheria and numerous other diseases. The effectiveness of vaccines in these cases is not disputed by either medical experts or historians.

With every vaccine, education is extremely important. I wouldn't just allow the government, a hospital or doctor to vaccinate myself, my child or my wife without understanding the situation with the best of my ability and after much prayer. However, I haven't seen anything presented by the anti-vaccination crowd that entirely substantiates the claims that most vaccines are either unhelpful or, in fact, dangerous. While there have been some studies of vaccines that have questioned the effectiveness, cost effectiveness and possible side effects of certain specific vaccines, most medical researchers agree that most vaccines are exceedingly helpful in the eradication of the targeted diseases.

To be clear: I do not advocate a mandatory vaccination by the government against the will of a family. However, this should only be done by a family who has considered the cost of NOT vaccinating their child. I know a man whose parents refused to allow him to receive a polio vaccination when he was a child. He subsequently contracted polio, was treated by doctors and survived, and has lived with the results ever since. He walks with a limp due to the disfiguration of his leg.

After all of this is said: I don't believe that we should be fearful or live in fear of this present world. God knows how to take care of His children as He sees fit. Seriously, as believers and children of God, we look forward to an eternity with our Lord! Even if our lives were filled with disease, persecution, famine and loneliness -- we still look forward to that moment that we will look upon the face of our Savior. Every moment in the life of a person who lived 120 years will seem so fleeting in comparison to just a momentary look into upon His face!

Thus, we should not worry about such things. I do believe that God provides for us...and can supernaturally provide for us. Still, at present, we live within the confines of this fallen world. Men must work and provide for their families by the sweat of their brows. The sun will continue rising and falling upon believers and unbelievers alike. Many of us are still susceptible to the places in which God has placed us. Some of us have actually been sick -- even after we have come to Christ Jesus. This is not a sign of unbelief or faithlessness. It is just that we are still living in this present world.

Paul encouraged Timothy to "drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (I Timothy 5:23). Why? Wine (and/or grape juice) contain elements that are helpful to the digestive system. Some of those elements are altered by time and are actually enhanced to be additionally helpful to the body (such as the anti-oxidants). Similarly, a vaccine is usually a natural dose that contains a weakened or somewhat altered agent that the God-given immune system within the human body can more readily recognize as a foreign agent and easily destroy.

As far as the issue of abortion: I do not understand the problem with my initial comments. I am 100% against abortion...which I think that I made clear earlier. I do believe that God will judge all of those who participate in the sin of abortion. This includes the physicians who make money destroying unborn babies, the politicians and activist judges who fight to make this a "right," the women who selfishly choose to kill their unborn, and the fathers who are often not-present to offer emotional or financial support in the raising of the child in the first place (I agree, MaryJane).

Look, I didn't think that this would be turned into a hotly contested debate. I understand that vaccinations are sometimes controversial issues. I've read many legitimate arguments about certain vaccinations (and I mean CERTAIN with a limited connotation). However, I still do not understand the rage that this can cause. I am puzzled by those state that my opinion is typical of the "medical establishment" and then repeat a possible vaccination/autism link that is supposedly found by people within the medical establishment (but without citing that source for their argument).

It is almost as if someone is suggesting that there is something "sinister" on behalf of the medical experts or government in regard to the swine flu, the swine flu vaccination or other vaccinations. This reeks of "conspiracy" -- and a "conspiracy" that is spread by rumors that aren't validated by any citations of evidence. Maybe I am missing something here, but I don't understand exactly WHY people are opposed to the swine flu vaccination (or any specific vaccination or vaccinations in general). If this is the case, what is the evidence for your position?

It is easy to say that God is our provider. I believe that too! I believe that God can provide JOBS to help men to provide for their families. I believe that God can provide MEDICINE to help provide for relief (just as Paul instructed Timothy). I also believe that God can provide preventive measures to avoid diseases like the swine flu, polio and even a common cold (such as common sense approaches AND/OR vaccinations). I also believe that God is the "Great Physician" -- and can either preserve us so that we don't get sick in the first place, or heal us supernaturally if we do.

I suppose that I feel a little lost here, because I might not fully understand the controversy in the first place. I don't know if anyone has articulated the "bottom line" fully or clearly. If they have and I somehow missed it, please forgive me.

I also believe that God is the "Great Physician" -- and can either preserve us so that we don't get sick in the first place, or heal us supernaturally if we do.

Please forgive me for the harshness of my previous post - it was uncalled for.

Greetings Chris

I am not against all vaccines and I do not think that if someone chooses to have themselves or their children vaccinated that is in any way saying that you don't trust in the Lord. I just do not trust this particular vaccines because of how quickly it is being put out there. I do not believe it has truly been tested as it should be. Its a personal conviction for me and I did go over this with my boys doctor. He even agree that since they are homeschooled there really was not a need for them to get it. This is my heart on this.

Chris I know your heart on abortion and that you are strongly against it. No one who has ever read any of your post could think other wise. You have always spoken against it very strongly.

You wrote:It is easy to say that God is our provider. I believe that too! I believe that God can provide JOBS to help men to provide for their families. I believe that God can provide MEDICINE to help provide for relief (just as Paul instructed Timothy).
___

I agree with you on this Chris and I do not see anything wrong or sinful or not trusting God by using medicines or preventive care. God is faithful and does care for all our needs and this includes medicines, doctor visits, jobs, food, ect...

God Bless you brother
maryjane

Hi HeartSong...

If you truly believe this, then why would you choose to get a vaccination?

Similarly, I believe that God gifts certain doctors, nutritionists and medical experts about the human body. Just because we realize that it is ultimately God who takes care of us does not mean that we can just give up and do nothing. We can take measures to care for this body...which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. We can watch what we eat, what we drink, and avoid circumstances that might be harmful. This isn't demonstrating a lack of faith...but an understanding about the complexity of the human body that God designed.

God certainly doesn't have to use vaccines in order to preserve believers from sickness. Yet vaccines and medicines DO prevent sickness and can provide cure (just like the medicine applied to Hezekiah at the urging of Isaiah the prophet in II Kings 20:1-7).

Remember, God doesn't need humans to accomplish anything. For instance, God could have killed Goliath in an instance. Yet God didn't do it himself. He allowed David to choose five smooth stones and throw one of them at the giant. God used David's skill...enhanced it...which slew the giant.

I have to wonder if many of the people who are against vaccines or medicine have EVER been sick?

?

Hi MaryJane,

Thank you sister.

I have to wonder if many of the people who are against vaccines or medicine have EVER been sick?

Since the Lord got a hold of me I have only been sick once - and that was because He wanted me to spend the whole day with Him because I had been too busy doing other things and was ignoring Him.

I also lost my voice in Scotland, at the end of the conference, but the Lord did that to prove to me that I could still sing even when I had lost my voice.

I also burned my hand really bad - but the Lord healed it without any medication. I prayed and put ice on it, and the Lord healed it.

When I do not feel good, I pray and the Lord shows me what I need to adjust. These things that He has done gives me ever increasing faith, but I must trust Him in order for Him to show forth His saving power. And if He chooses not to heal me, and I die, that is all the better for then I will be with Him eternally.

Oh, I forgot the really bad rash that I had on my face - that was a lesson on vanity. Again, He healed it - when the time was right.

Then was the king exceedingly glad for him, and commanded that they should take Daniel up out of the den. So Daniel was taken up out of the den, and no manner of hurt was found upon him, [i][b][u]because[/u][/b][/i] he believed in his God. - Daniel 6:23

Hi HeartSong...

This sounds a lot like the "prosperity" view that people who have faith will not get sick. Paul was sick -- and experienced harm quite a bit. God did NOT protect Paul through some of his beatings.

I suppose that I don't understand the extent to which you believe that people will not get sick.

Are you opposed to medicine, vaccines, etc... because you believe that they are a demonstration of a lack of faith?

*EDIT - I have known some extremely godly men and women who have, from time to time, become sick. James even instructed believers who had become sick to go before the elders of the Church. While they would be healed through the prayer of faith, the fact remains that they became sick in the first place.

I may begin to think about taking the H1N1 vaccine when the developers take the vaccine.

But, seeing the fact that they are not taking the vaccine themselves, and that they are preventing their families from taking it, I do not trust it.

A vaccine made with a large amount of mercury will not be good for your immune system, no matter how much the government says it is good for you...

Hi IWantAnguish...

I may begin to think about taking the H1N1 vaccine when the developers take the vaccine.

But, seeing the fact that they are not taking the vaccine themselves, and that they are preventing their families from taking it, I do not trust it.

A vaccine made with a large amount of mercury will not be good for your immune system, no matter how much the government says it is good for you...

I am not saying that you are wrong; however, I am concerned with allegations that aren't substantiated by credible citations. A quick Google search only lists some of the anti-vaccine claims for previous vaccines. Thanks for any sources that you can provide.

Hi HeartSong... This sounds a lot like the "prosperity" view that people who have faith will not get sick.

You could argue away the moon. I just pray that you do not argue away your salvation - for that is one of the things that He saves us from - sickness and death - but only if you believe.

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." -3 John 1:2

Hi HeartSong...

Chris,

You could argue away the moon. I just pray that you do not argue away your salvation - for that is one of the things that He saves us from - sickness and death.

I disagree with what seems to be a belief in a Scriptural prohibition against medicine and vaccination. While you may think that it is Biblical, I do not. I am quite convinced that it is also medically accurate. While you may argue against medicine and/or vaccination from a spiritual perspective, what about all of the people of this world? Perhaps they don't have the "faith" to avoid getting sick. After all, Jesus himself said that the sick need a doctor (Matthew 9:12-13).

That said: I have hardly ever been sick since I became a believer. I have had a couple of colds and I even had strep throat once (I caught it while it was going around at school). Yet I wouldn't judge my experiences or the illnesses of others by some notion that it is the result of a lack of faith. I have known babies and infants who died from illness. Are we to assume that this is the result of a lack of faith?

I believe in Biblical prosperity. However, I have a difficult time with the notion that we can have perfect bodies on this side of Eternity. We are still confined to this fallen world. Age itself is likely a result of the curse upon Adam. Every time that I see an old person who needs to wear glasses, I am reminded that we are still confined to this fallen world. Sometimes, our bodies just aren't functioning like they should. Sometimes, people develop conditions that aren't normal. Sometimes, people contract viruses.

Yes, I understand that the Lord can prohibit it...and I pray that He does. However, I do not feel the need to judge those who are sick. Nor do I feel the need to criticize those who might choose to receive subsequent or preventive treatment either.

Heartsong

Are you saying that people who go to the doctor, use medicine are lacking faith? Are you saying that people who get sick are some how lacking in faith? Are you making this a salvation issue?

You keep posting stuff about Chris salvation and implying that because he does not agree with your opinion on not taking medicine or going to a doctor he is some how in sin or danger of loosing his salvation. I think you owe him an apology. There is nothing in the bible or from Jesus instruction that tells us it is sin to go to the doctor. Just because you see it as a lack of faith does not make it so. There have been many many occasions when I have had a sick family member and after much prayer felt the leading of the Lord to seek medical attention. God always provides the means to pay for the visit and He always has guided the doctors hand in diagnosing the illness. All the credit and glory goes to God. He has brought about healing by using the doctor and the medicine. Just as He uses our jobs that he blesses us with and provides us with to feed us, house us ect.

in Him
Elizabeth

There is a video you can find on the web, a journalist being interviewed on a Russian news station.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4SmFxyust0&]Here[/url]

As for the mercury contained in the vaccine... here's what the FDA states...

“Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound (an organomercurial). Since the 1930s, it has been widely used as a preservative in a number of biological and drug products, including many vaccines, to help prevent potentially life threatening contamination with harmful microbes. Over the past several years, because of an increasing awareness of the theoretical potential for neurotoxicity of even low levels of organomercurials and because of the increased number of thimerosal-containing vaccines that had been added to the infant immunization schedule, concerns about the use of thimerosal in vaccines and other products have been raised. Indeed, because of these concerns, the Food and Drug Administration has worked with, and continues to work with, vaccine manufacturers to reduce or eliminate thimerosal from vaccines. Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine.”

Basically, 'we know its dangerous, but we're gonna use it anyway.'

========

Quoting again from the FDA website...

========

The multi-dose formulation contains thimerosal, added as a preservative; each 0.5 mL dose contains 24.5 mcg of mercury.

A single 0.5 mL dose of Influenza A (H1N1) 2009 Monovalent Vaccine contains sodium chloride (4.1 mg), monobasic sodium phosphate (80 mcg), dibasic sodium phosphate (300 mcg), monobasic potassium phosphate (20 mcg), potassium chloride (20 mcg), and calcium chloride (1.5 mcg). From the manufacturing process, each dose may also contain residual amounts of sodium taurodeoxycholate (≤ 10 ppm), ovalbumin (≤ 1 mcg), neomycin sulfate (≤ 0.2 picograms [pg]), polymyxin B (≤ 0.03 pg), and beta-propiolactone (< 25 nanograms).

The rubber tip cap and plunger used for the preservative-free, single-dose syringes and the rubber stoppers used for the multi-dose vial contain no latex.

Hi IWantAnguish...

I will look at the Russian website later on. However, do you have a link for your quote about the mercury in the Swine Flu vaccine? I looked up the vaccine at the CDC website, and it contains nothing about mercury. I do realize that EVERY vaccine and medication includes some sort of preservative (especially necessary in vaccines), however I am interested in seeing the FDA website that you took this claim from.

I would add that I do not take a "[i]we know its dangerous, but we're gonna use it anyway[/i]" from that paragraph. Rather, it seems like they were aware of concerns and were working with pharmaceutical companies to remove any possibly dangerous preservative. I would like to see the original statement/website in order to validate its authenticity or application to this current vaccine.

Thanks!

[i]Jer 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

Ro 8:28 And we know that [b]in all things[/b] God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.[/i]

Dear HeartSong,

No one will criticize you for your decision to avoid vaccinations or medical services, if that is what God has placed in your heart, as a test of faith that He will care for you and heal you of all infirmity. If that is His way with you, then praise God for it!

In the same way, I don't think it is fair for you to be so rabidly critical of those who believe that God can and will use vaccinations and other medical services to provide for their health needs. Our God is sovereign over all the earth, and He can use all things to serve His purpose if He so desires (Ro 8:28).

Let me tell you of my experience how God provided for my health:

Back in early 2006, my family and I were facing a grave financial crisis. We had just lost our small business, we were up to our eyeballs in debt, and the home we lived in was in the process of foreclosure. Praying for a way to provide for my family, God led me to take the state tests to qualify as a secondary school math teacher in California, and to start a new career as a high school teacher.

A few months before foreclosure would force us out of our home, a close friend offered to allow us to occupy a new property they had bought in the Central Valley, free of rent until such time that I found work and could afford to pay rental on the house. Having no other option at that time, my family and I gratefully accepted the offer, and we moved 200 miles away to a city where we were strangers, to start over.

Very quickly, I completed all test requirements to teach high school math, found a teaching job in a nearby school district, joined the teacher's union, and started my new career as a teacher in June 2006. up to that time, I had never been seriously sick and had never been hospitalized.

Six months later, during the Christmas holidays, I suffered severe recurring diarrhea and vomiting. By early January 2007, I went to the hospital ER because of an obstruction. Three weeks later, after a series of tests and after I had lost 30 pounds, I was told that I was suffering from Stage 2 colon cancer.

Throughout this series of misfortunes, God was working miraculously to provide for my needs. On hindsight, I was amazed at how wonderfully God worked things out for my good. Just 8 months before, I had no job, no income and no health insurance. When I was found with cancer, I had a good job with excellent health insurance, and I was actually living only 15 minutes away from a major cancer treatment center that served the Central Valley. In fact, my cancer was found exactly on the month when my full heath insurance coverage kicked in. If it had been found just one month earlier, my illness would not have been covered because of the mandatory 6-month waiting period from the start of the insurance policy for coverage of dreaded diseases. There was no doubt in my mind that, at just the right time, God provided my health insurance and the medical services available where I lived for my care and healing.

I underwent surgery for resection (removal of the tumor) and colostomy. Within 6 more months, my cancer metastasized and progressed to Stage 4 carcinomatosis, with tumors too many to count all over my abdominal wall. I was given the most up-to-date cancer treatment available in the form of 20 months of chemotherapy (FOLFOX6 and FOLFIRI) with Avastin. I could tell from my doctor's demeanor, that things did not look good for me at all. They had said that carcinomatosis responded poorly to chemotherapy, but I continued to have faith that God could solve that problem for me.

In all that time, I was working full time to provide for my family. God gave me the strength and fortitude to work despite the nausea, fatigue, diarrhea, neuropathy, compromised immune system, fluid retention, etc. I lost my job as a public HS teacher because of budget cuts, but I quickly found another teaching job in a Christian high school even closer to home. I managed to keep my health insurance for an additional 18 months through the COBRA program. Through all these, I never felt neglected by God. In fact I rejoiced in the way that things consistently fell into place for me, and I counted on the Lord for the strength to continue working and to recover from my cancer.

Last June, six months before my health insurance would end, I asked my doctors to arrange for surgery to reverse my colostomy and restore my digestive functions. I had to do this since I could no longer afford it after my insurance expired. Regular CT/PET scans and blood tests seemed to indicate that my chemotherapy treatments were able to control the malignancies that had spread into my abdominal cavity, but the real test would be when the surgeon opened me up to look and see. The colostomy reversal surgery was performed last July and my surgeon (the same doctor who saw that my cancer had spread all over my abdominal cavity) was surprised to find no sign whatsoever of cancer.

I have now recovered fully from my surgery and I'm slowly regaining my strength. My digestive functions are all back to normal, and so far, I am classified as "no evidence of disease" (NED).

It is not easy to come back to NED status after suffering from Stage 4 colon cancer. I will never stop praising God for healing me of this dreaded disease, and I know that he used many things: my friends, my family, my job as a teacher, my health insurance, and the medical services available in my new hometown to arrange for my healing.

[u]ADDENDUM: To show you all how wonderfully God provided for my health needs, let me summarize for you[/u]:

1. God arranged for me to get excellent health insurance coverage exactly 7 months before I was found with colon cancer. This timing allowed the 6-month waiting period for coverage of dreaded diseases to pass before my cancer was discovered.

2. In the 3.5 years that I had this excellent health coverage, I underwent 4 major surgeries and two cycles of chemotherapy covering 14 months with bi-weekly infusions averaging a discounted cost of $23,000 per infusion, and 6 months of Avastin infusions only. All in all, I estimate the total cost of my medical treatment for colon cancer to be slightly in excess of $1 million.

3. This health insurance that God provided for me ended this month, roughly 90 days after my last major surgery, covering all post-operative recovery and other minor medical issues.

4. After all these cutting-edge cancer treatments, which I could never have afforded without God's help, I recovered from Stage 4 metastatic colon cancer and am now with "no evidence of disease".

My family and I praise God everyday for the wonderful way He provided for my health care.

Hi ccchhhrrriiisss. You're a doctor, aren't you? :-)

Wow. Correct me if I am wrong, but are people on this thread opposed to all/most/some vaccinations?

I'm undoubtedly opposed to all vaccinations. Sounds like medical heresy, doesn't it? That's understandable. Most of us have been taught throughout our lives that vaccines are beneficial, thus anyone who dares question that claim is looked upon as crazy. Throughout history many scientific and medical pioneers have been persecuted, ostracized and even imprisoned because their discoveries did not conform to the standard practices and popular beliefs of their day.

If this is the case, then upon what evidence are you basing this position?

There is plenty out there. And I'm not talking about "fringe" groups of "conspiracy theorists"...many reputable doctors and specialists who are adamantly opposed to vaccines have formed entire organizations to combat this malpractice and inform the public of the potential dangers involved.

Influenza vaccines are inarguably effective against the flu. The number of flu victims has dropped dramatically in nations that have adopted quick flu vaccination programs.

I don't doubt there may be some benefit to vaccines. However, much research reveals that there are greater risks. Whether or not the number of flu victims have decreased as a result of vaccines in third world countries is a matter for debate.

The polio vaccination has almost eradicated polio -- which was a disease that horribly affected many people in the United States and around the world each year and led to countless deaths, disfigurations and permanent disabilities. Vaccines have effectively stopped the bubonic plague, smallpox, cholera, hepatitis A, diphtheria and numerous other diseases. The effectiveness of vaccines in these cases is not disputed by either medical experts or historians.

Actually, it [i]is[/i] disputed. It depends on what expert you ask. Here's a good link for you to read if you have the time. Something to consider. http://www.vaccines.me/articles/rgcxz-the-myth-of-vaccines-causing-20th-century-mortality-decline-excellent-paper-by-mckinlay-and-mckinlay.cfm

Paul encouraged Timothy to "drink a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities" (I Timothy 5:23). Why? Wine (and/or grape juice) contain elements that are helpful to the digestive system. Some of those elements are altered by time and are actually enhanced to be additionally helpful to the body (such as the anti-oxidants).

Yes, I completely agree. But there is a great difference between eating and drinking something living and God-made, and taking a chemically altered/synthetic/potentially toxic pharmaceutical component. Wouldn't you agree? God tells Adam and Eve how to take care of their bodies in Genesis 1:29. Plants, fruits, and seeds. Natural, living foods nurture our bodies, aid our immune systems, and help to heal us of diseases.
That is not to say I am against all conventional medicine; I believe it has it's place treating some acute conditions and emergencies. For long-term, chronic degenerative conditions, however, conventional medicine has made relatively little progress. Many of the drugs manufactured to treat these diseases are ineffective and, at best, only help to cover the symptoms, but never get to the root of the problem.

I am puzzled by those state that my opinion is typical of the "medical establishment" and then repeat a possible vaccination/autism link that is supposedly found by people within the medical establishment (but without citing that source for their argument).

I meant that this is the prevalent view within the medical establishment...the official view of most conventional medical practitioners. Your arguments were typical of the pro-vaccine advocates. However, not everyone shares these views. There are those in both conventional and alternative circles that have studies proving that vaccines are harmful. Consequently, the studies of these professionals are largely ignored and they themselves are usually labeled "quacks".

It is almost as if someone is suggesting that there is something "sinister" on behalf of the medical experts or government in regard to the swine flu, the swine flu vaccination or other vaccinations.

There [i]is[/i] something sinister going on; it's called "greed", and the Lord warns us of this sin many times throughout the Bible. Brother, do you not believe the awesome truths found in Romans 3? All have sinned. There is none good, no not one. As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. It's a sad fact that the pharmaceutical companies are the largest contributors to med schools and universities for research. They exret great power. It is well-known that there is a revolving door between government organizations like the FDA and and the very industries they are supposed to be regulating. FDA employees quit the FDA and work for pharmaceutical companies; they then quit these companies and go back to work for the FDA. So who's regulating who? Look it up, it's no "conspiracy theory". I personally know someone who has worked evaluating studies of pharmaceutical medications, and has personally witnessed to what great lengths these pharmaceutical companies will go to have their drugs approved, and their "studies" deemed valid, despite clear evidence indicating that the drugs are toxic and have adverse reactions. Studies can be manipulated to show something that is just not true. All for money.

This reeks of "conspiracy" -- and a "conspiracy" that is spread by rumors that aren't validated by any citations of evidence.

Again, typical of many doctors, the "conspiracy" card is drawn. Do you honestly believe that the pharmaceutical industry cares about your well-being? If we as believers can err, and view precious souls as mere numbers, how much more do you think godless, idolatrous people can view you as a mere statistic on a piece of paper?

As far as evidence, I'll provide you with a couple citations and some links. God bless you, brother.

"The thing that bugs me is that the people think the FDA is protecting them. It isn’t. What the FDA is doing and what the public thinks it’s doing are as different as night and day,"
Dr Herbert Ley, former Commissioner of the FDA.

"They lie like Scoundrels."--Dean Burke, Ph.D., on The American Cancer Society. (Burke was employed by the National Cancer Institute for 34 years).

"The FDA serves as the pharmaceutical industry's watchdog, which can be called upon to attack and destroy a potential competitor under the guise of protecting the public," Dr James P. Carter, M.D., author of RACKETEERING IN MEDICINE, the SUPPRESSION OF ALTERNATIVES.

Ingredients in Vaccines:
http://www.informedchoice.info/cocktail.html

An article by Russell Blaylock, MD, a renowned neurosurgeon:
http://www.whale.to/a/blaylock34.html
http://www.russellblaylockmd.com/

National Vaccine Information Center: http://www.nvic.org

Vaccines Me: http://www.vaccines.me/

Some videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1z7KSEnyxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLo83fR1ijw

www.mercola.com also has much great information.

Any time that we rely upon something other than the Lord for our protection, or provision, we open ourselves up to the potential consequences of that thing that we are choosing. We are in effect taking ourselves out from under the umbrella of His protection on that thing – that being whatever it is that we are choosing over Him. This is how evil is perpetrated upon us – by the things that we choose.

The Lord has made this abundantly clear to me and has required that I put it before you. It is now up to you as to whether or not you believe this to be truth.

Please forgive me my terseness. I have images of people choosing to inject themselves with poison. I have images of people injecting innocent children with poison – and all of this with a smile on their face as if they are now safe. They are not safe – they have just made a deal with the devil.

If you look down upon me for putting my faith in the Lord, then so be it. But I must warn you that everything that we say is being recorded in heaven and anyone that comes out and blatantly tells others to put their faith in something other than the Lord is in effect turning others away from the Lord.

There is abortion, and there is spiritual abortion. It is quite possible that there are some that would have turned to the Lord but for the words that they have read upon these pages. Now, instead, they will be putting their faith in something other than the Lord. These are potential brothers and sisters that might have been born, but now, for the words they have read, remain dead.

We all must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I am not telling anyone what they should, or should not do, but for heavens sake do not point others away from Christ!

sister
I understand that you feel deep conviction on this matter and you should walk that out in the Lord, but to come across towards Chris as if his faith is some how lacking is not right. Again this is something that God is showing you, that is so awesome, walk it out! No one here is telling you not to or putting you down for following your beliefs. I happen to agree with you about this particular vaccine not being safe.
However I do not agree that by going to the doctor a person is relying on the doctor more then God. That is like saying that by working at our jobs we are not trusting in God to provide as He said He would for our daily living. I have prayed about this on many occasions in my own walk and I can say that with all confidence there are times when the Lord has led me to stay home and rest, but there have also been times when He has clearly led me to the doctors. This does not make my faith or reliance on the Lord any less. In fact just as Leo shared in order to just pay to see the doctor it has caused my faith to grow because on so many occasions I had no idea how medical bills would be met, but God was and is always there to provide.

You do not get sick, I praise God for that!
You said we must all walk out our salvation and in that you are correct, but questioning Chris salvation as you have done is not.

Please consider what I have shared
in Him
Elziabeth

[url=http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/QuestionsaboutVaccines/ucm186102.htm]FDA List of H1N1 Vaccine Ingredients[/url]

There's the link...

Thimerosal is 50% or so of mercury...

Wow.

Chris, I am sorry bro. You are on the defensive in this thread, and for little to no reason IMO. We are still able to choose what we believe is best for ourselves and our families, which I am very thankful for.

We choose to vaccinate our children, then again, we would probably let our children eat meat sacrificed to idols as well... ;-). We are not vaccinating our childern against H1N1 though.

Vaccines have helped combat and almost completely [u]eradicate[/u] many bugs that have historically wiped out millions upon millions of people thoughout history.

Chris,

I have not read all the posts on this thread but you asked this question:

but are people on this thread opposed to all/most/some vaccinations?

The answer to this is "NO!"

The polio epidemic hit this country back in the 50s when I was a young school child. We were bused to another school to be vaccinated against this scourge. And it brought this epidemic to a halt.

In the meantime, out in Iowa, my (not yet) sister-in-law got polio. She recovered only to have her 16 year old healthy, strong brother get it. He got it very hard, lived in an iron lung for one month, an unheard of feat, and survived. He recovered but had to use crutches ever since and then later a wheelchair. In recent years he has come down with post-polio syndrome and is now confined to his bed, has been for over a year. His mind is sharp as a tack but his body is wasting away. He cannot breathe long without using a breathing machine. His wife is his primary caregiver and it is ruining her health as well.

We had ALL of our children immunized against polio and would highly recommend it for one and all. I got a booster one time when my children were getting theirs.

To do otherwise is foolhardy. We have seen the effects of polio first hand, my husband lived with it as a boy and I promise you it ain't funny!

ginnyrose

For those that are persuaded to take this vaccine, you might want to consider blood work two-weeks post shot assessing mercury/aluminum levels. Detox for mercury is relatively inexpensive ($35) and separate from other heavy metals. A dear sister in the Lord was diagnosed with breast cancer (one cell on needle biopsy). Her mercury level was "astronomical." It was fun to her to do N=1 research, detoxing and retesting (extremely low now). She stopped eating a can of tuna 5 times a week for lunch.

I wonder what pre-post vaccination levels would show. If I had a child, and were persuaded to give them 15-20 vaccinations, I'd invest in the blood-work, not that that covers all the concerns.

Thanks for the links in this thread. For additional balance Chris, you might recall who provides the bulk of the CME education to docs. Continuing Medical Education is both important, expensive and a big drain to do. The pharmaceutical companies help out so much we even have to sign a statement that we were not influenced to purchase their product. Love those donuts and coffee mid-day.

And then there is how medical research (even basic) is shaped by who is buying what. This is not across the board but it is reality. Cell-to-cell communication research was delayed for over 20 years. When a way to profit was found, nobel prizes were distributed.

The China Study (T. Colin Campbell) is a good first study if you like research. He documents the difficulties he encountered presenting his findings which are as informative as the findings. To my knowledge there has been no contra side presented. By now libraries have it.

xxxxxxxx THE ORIGINAL POINT OF THE POST

I notice that this would be a great test-exercising of political power. I live in a state where, during a "state of emergency", non-compliance with medical directives can result in civil commitment for one month.

Now both these subjects are real Kingdom of this World subjects ----worth a glance, taking note of but not worth a change of focus.

- Active Substance:
Influenza virus surface antigens (haemagglutinin and neuraminidase)* of strain:
A/California/7/2009 (H1N1)v like strain (X-179A) 7.5 micrograms** per 0.5 ml dose
* propagated in eggs
** expressed in microgram haemagglutinin.
This vaccine complies with the WHO recommendation and EU decision for the pandemic.
- Adjuvant:
The vaccine contains an ‘adjuvant’ (MF59C.1) to stimulate a better response. MF59C.1 is an oil/water emulsion containing 9.75 mg squalene, 1.175 mg polysorbate 80 and 1.175 mg sorbitan trioleate in a citrate buffer.
- Other Ingredients:
The other ingredients are: thiomersal (multidose vial only), sodium chloride, potassium chloride, potassium dihydrogen phosphate, disodium phosphate dihydrate, magnesium chloride hexahydrate, calcium chloride dihydrate, sodium citrate, citric acid and water for injections

===========

Antibodies to squalene in Gulf War syndrome.
Asa PB, Cao Y, Garry RF.

Department of Microbiology, Tulane Medical School, 1430 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana, 70112, USA. PMBA@aol.com

Gulf War Syndrome (GWS) is a multisystemic illness afflicting many Gulf War-era veterans. The molecular pathological basis for GWS has not been established. We sought to determine whether the presence of antibodies to squalene correlates with the presence of signs and symptoms of GWS. Participants in this blinded cohort study were individuals immunized for service in Desert Shield/Desert Storm during 1990-1991. They included 144 Gulf War-era veterans or military employees (58 in the blinded study), 48 blood donors, 40 systemic lupus erythematosus patients, 34 silicone breast implant recipients, and 30 chronic fatigue syndrome patients. Serum antibodies to squalene were measured. In our small cohort, the substantial majority (95%) of overtly ill deployed GWS patients had antibodies to squalene. All (100%) GWS patients immunized for service in Desert Shield/Desert Storm who did not deploy, but had the same signs and symptoms as those who did deploy, had antibodies to squalene. In contrast, none (0%) of the deployed Persian Gulf veterans not showing signs and symptoms of GWS have antibodies to squalene. Neither patients with idiopathic autoimmune disease nor healthy controls had detectable serum antibodies to squalene. The majority of symptomatic GWS patients had serum antibodies to squalene. Copyright 2000 Academic Press.

============

There is 1,000,000 times as much squalene in the swine flu vaccine opposed to the contaminated batches of the Gulf War veterans...

Is it possible that the Lord could protect you from the mercury in the shot?

Is there any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he has committed sins they shall be forgiven him. James 4:14-15

Dear saints, this is free, and this is the written Word. I haven't seen a doctor in over 10 years, and it truly began because I could not afford ir financially, but became a desire to trust.

There will be a time when medicines will no longer be available, period. This is on the very horizon and I believe that he is trying to wean us from our dependency on that which comes from man.

There is something more sinister taking place than a simple vaccine shot, and the thing that is motivating us is called fear.

Please, please pray before falling into this trap of being subject to every word spoken from the higher ups in this nation.

May the Lord direct His people safely.

Hello Miccah,

You wrote:

Is it possible that the Lord could protect you from the mercury in the shot?

I do not remember the exact wording but I [b]know[/b] I am not to tempt my God. If I am convinced it is dangerous to take the vaccine it would be wrong to take it. I think this goes with the advice against eating meat sacrificed to idols. If you feel it is a sin to do it, then it is a sin for you to do it.

Kind regards,
white stone

White_Stone wrote:

Hello Miccah,

You wrote:

Is it possible that the Lord could protect you from the mercury in the shot?

I do not remember the exact wording but I [b]know[/b] I am not to tempt my God. If I am convinced it is dangerous to take the vaccine it would be wrong to take it. I think this goes with the advice against eating meat sacrificed to idols. If you feel it is a sin to do it, then it is a sin for you to do it.

Kind regards,
white stone

Hey White_Stone,

I agree with you 100%. Do not tempt the Lord God.

What I was trying to accomplish is exactly what you are stating. How do we know that the Lord has not allowed vaccinations to exsist to further His kingdom? Maybe these vaccinations are answers to prayers from many saints around the world.?.? Some may say err on the side of caution and do not get the shot, others may say err on the side of caution and GET the shot. You say Potato and I say Pota(a)to...

I believe that the Lord gives us doctors and medical staff for our benefit, not to hinder us. I am not into governmental conspiracy in regards to the H1N1, but I do not feel that this particular vaccine is safe for my family at this time.

FYI, my family is located in the midst of the H1N1 storm at this time. Schools are closing left and right. Friends and kids are sick. Some folks that I am going on a mission outreach later this year are at this moment, in bed with the dreaded H1N1. Nurses are telling us to stay out of the clinics and emergency rooms unless you HAVE to come in. Medical staff are starting to be directed to take to work a two week supply of food, clothing and tolietries because they may be quarantined by the hospitals... And I still am not allowing my family to take the N1H1 because it is untested.

So we are in the midst of the battle per say. H1N1 is literally all around us. If I felt that the benefits of this vaccine would outweight the "possible" negative side effects, I would have no problem having it administered to my children and myself.

Regardless of H1N1... "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."

Hey Miccah

You wrote:I believe that the Lord gives us doctors and medical staff for our benefit, not to hinder us. I am not into governmental conspiracy in regards to the H1N1, but I do not feel that this particular vaccine is safe for my family at this time.

____

I agree with you on this. I have no problem with going to the doctor when the Lord leads me to. I also have not problem with taking medicine if I feel lead to do so. I do not see this as having a lack of faith as some have put forth.

having said that I will not be getting the H1N1 flu shot either. Its not that I believe in government conspiracy but I have also prayed about this and do not feel the Lord leading me to get this shot at this time. I have read and heard so many conspiracy about the government rounding people up and forcing them to take the vaccine over the past few months that it makes me wonder? Here where I am they actually do not have enough of the flu vaccine. I asked one of the ladies who works at one of our local clinics about what she thought if the government might begin forcing this shot on people who do not want it. She laughed and said that the only way they could do that is if they some how come up with a few million extra vials. She said that right now they run out every weekend that they are giving the shots and that there are always long lines of people who are waiting to get it. Several doctors offices around town have said to actually be out of the vaccine and are waiting for more to arrive.
I don't know what all of that means,except that I am to trust in the Lord and that has not changed because of this or any other "crisis".

in Him
Elizabeth

Actually Chris, vaccinations STOP your body from building a natural immunity to it. Immunity only comes from a body being exposed to the problem (flu) and then the body building it's own immunities to it! Vaccinations stop this natural process and makes our bodies weaker.

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely, 100% incorrect. Vaccinations work by exposing your body to the antigens present on a strain of a virus (for example, proteins on the surface of the virus particle), so that your body can develop an immune response to those antigens without actually being exposed to viable virus particles. This is exactly the same as the natural immune response, except that either the actual virus is [i]not[/i] present in the vaccine, or the virus is present, but in an inviable form. But since antigens are what your immune system responds to (and not the virus particle as a whole), it produces the same immune response as the actual virus itself.

KathleenP wrote:

There will be a time when medicines will no longer be available, period. This is on the very horizon and I believe that he is trying to wean us from our dependency on that which comes from man.

There is something more sinister taking place than a simple vaccine shot, and the thing that is motivating us is called fear.

This is one of the best posts in this entire thread. This issue isn't "vaccines are bad," (I stance I [i]strongly[/i] disagree with), or even "the H1N1 vaccine is bad." This issue is fear and learning to trust God, no matter what He tells you to do. Is God directing you to take the vaccine? Then take it! Otherwise, if you are a healthy individual, you most likely don't have anything to worry about. It's really that simple. Trust Him to take care of you.

Just take lots of vitamin D, get rest, and eat smart.

You don't need a vaccine to prevent this flu.

I have a close brother in Christ who is currently recovering from a mild case of the h1n1 virus. He's not dying or anything even close to being out of commission.

IWantAnguish wrote:

Just take lots of vitamin D, get rest, and eat smart.

You don't need a vaccine to prevent this flu.

This is good advice. Common sense goes a long way with preventing illnesses.

I have a close brother in Christ who is currently recovering from a mild case of the h1n1 virus. He's not dying or anything even close to being out of commission.

A case that hits close to home in our community. A brother informed me that a small child passed yesterday with complications from the H1N1. The child had asthma, which acted because/with the H1N1. This brother is not an vaccine advocate to my understanding.

The vaccine [i]may[/i] have prevented the H1N1 from complicating the asthma, thus preventing a death. The child was not immunized.

Just take lots of vitamin D, get rest, and eat smart. You don't need a vaccine to prevent this flu.

I agree as well...vitamin D, preferably by sunshine exposure, vitamin C, garlic which boosts the immune system, eat lots of fruits and vegetables as organic and raw as posible...and don't tempt the Lord by eating junk food and sugars!

God heals us, no doubt about it, and we should depend solely on Him, the Great Physician. But He's already told us in His Word how to maintain ourselves healthy, namely a good diet and taking care of our bodies, God's temple. If you don't believe in doctors and only in supernatural healing, and yet you don't take care of yor body, you're tempting God.

The pharmaceutical companies help out so much we even have to sign a statement that we were not influenced to purchase their product. Love those donuts and coffee mid-day.

Donuts and coffee? Lol...goes to show how much they really care about people's health! :-)