Many people in the church world cringe at the word Holiness,and anytime Holiness is mentioned they cry legalism ? Holiness is a commanded lifestyle for believers In Christ,yet legalism is a preversion of Grace and something believers must avoid.
Legalism is man trying to earn salvation,by his own efforts,while holiness is a result of grace.
Why do you suppose people often confuse Holiness as Legalism ?
because they might have not genuinely been born again or they or walking in the flesh and cannot or our not discerning by the spirit of God.
In my background,Many people who called themselves Holiness taught extrabiblical things,as the commandments of God,certainly Holiness is a biblical principle,but well meaning people sometimes taught the commandments of men,as the commandments of God,so personally I feel that alot of confusion over Holiness and Legalism has come from alot of well intentionted believers.
I believe that holiness is a gift we receive from God that manifests itself in an outward manner. "BE holy as I AM holy" is much more about the "essence" of one's inward disposition and status than outward demonstration. God IS holy, and therefore, acts a certain way. Holiness is not obtained in the actions that one does or does not do, but rather, comes from being partakers of the divine nature. It is a gift of God's grace.
Unless holiness is understood from these principles, one will easily be lead into legalism. I am "holy" because of what God has done for me. He has set me apart. I am simply to walk in a lifestyle that agrees with what God has already done for me. Holiness is not found in adhering to an ethical code. Holiness is a state of being.
Holiness is not found in adhering to an ethical code. Holiness is a state of being.
Amen.
A lot of times you will find legalism being promoted by someone trying to work their way into salvation...or perhaps keep it.
You will find holiness in the life of someone who is truly saved. Someone who as come to the end of self and realizes they have nothing to give. It is then they begin to truly give all of themselves in complete obedience to the Word. It is a joy to obey. Not a chore. Holiness by grace.
Holiness is not obtained in the actions that one does or does not do, but rather, comes from being partakers of the divine nature. It is a gift of God's grace.Unless holiness is understood from these principles, one will easily be lead into legalism. I am "holy" because of what God has done for me. He has set me apart. I am simply to walk in a lifestyle that agrees with what God has already done for me. Holiness is not found in adhering to an ethical code. Holiness is a state of being.
Amen. Our holiness is God's gift, bought with the precious blood of Christ, not the deeds of men. But when we are truly Christ's, then we will choose to walk in the path of his righteousness.
[i]Heb 10:12-14 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, because [b]by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says: “This is the covenant I will make with them after that time, says the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds.” Then he adds: “[b]Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more
You will find holiness in the life of someone who is truly saved. Someone who as come to the end of self and realizes they have nothing to give. It is then they begin to truly give all of themselves in complete obedience to the Word. It is a joy to obey. Not a chore. Holiness by grace.
Amen. Absolutely true. Sadly, few "holiness" preachers ever get this. They may hint at getting it from time to time, but usually just fall back into the old "rules and regulations" preaching.
Just to add my two cents into this matter, because I think this is something often misinterpreted by almost everybody, but Christ's statement in the sermon on the mount, to "BE perfect" as our heavenly Father is, must be understood in this exact same manner as "being" holy. It's not something we strive for, rather, it is something we are to walk in, as we have been made perfect by the blood of Jesus Christ.
*edited*
I am one of them.Many people in the church world cringe at the word Holiness,and anytime Holiness is mentioned they cry legalism ?
There is something you have to understand. A lot of us grew up in denominations that taught holiness, but it was laced with legalism, a lot of it. So holiness to our understanding was legalism. God was so strict that while I was a sinner He died for me, but now that I am saved it was like condemnation being poured out. Why was I saved for? only to be condemned for every action that I do? Everything you did was scrutinized. I remember one woman who asked the Pastor if she could cut an inch off her long hair to get rid of the split ends. He said, "I don't believe a woman should cut her hair". So she cut the split ends, wound the hair up and stuck a hat on her head so no one could see that she cut it.
The more "holiness" that was practiced in the Church the more sin raged in behind closed doors. It was unbelievable the happenings that were going on. The more I seen what was going on the more I hated legalism and the holiness that went with it.
There is a true holiness and the only thing that I can come up with is that the more you grow closer to God the more holier you become. I don't think it has anything to do with stop touching this or that, that will fall away with the using as Paul said. Preachers are such control freaks. Leave people alone, let the Holy Ghost make people holy, our business is to continually point to Jesus Christ, not putting everyone into some legalistic mold and stamp holiness on it.
Forgive me, this is a painful and touchy subject. I've seen people destroyed by legalism. I hate it with a passion. And if Holiness is Legalism, then I hate them both, but I thank God that it's not.
Amen DeepThinker.
I know one senior saint in my church, who is about 70 years old and has grown up in the holiness tradition. She testified that when she came into the church from the world, she was very confused with all the rules and regulations that many others tried to impose on her as to what was right and what was wrong in everyday matters of dress, makeup, hair, food, etc.
She has said on many occasions that she simply turned to the Lord and said, "Lord, I'll dress however it is you want me to dress." And the best she has known how, she has only dressed as she believes the Lord has allowed her to dress all these years. That didn't often go over very well with others in the church. But, that is how she presented herself before the Lord, and in doing so, she has fought the good fight and kept the faith all these years.
She is one of the greatest Christians I have ever personally known.
Legalism is when you teach the commandments of men as if they were the commandments of God.
Holiness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.
Holiness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.
This sounds good on the surface, and many might be tempted to agree with it. But in actuality, this statement is 100% false. Holiness is not found in keeping the commandments of God. One keeps the commandments of God because one "is" holy, as God "is" holy. There is a big difference here.
HogwashHoliness is when you keep the commandments of God because you love God.
To be "holy" is to be "morally blameless". If you break the commandments of the Lord, you are not morally blameless and are therefore not holy.
If you keep the commandments of the Lord, you are blameless and are consequently holy.
You don't keep the commandments because you are holy, you are holy because you keep the commandments. That is because you cannot be "morally blameless" unless you are FIRST keeping the commandments.
- To be holy is to be morally blameless
- A man is morally blameless if he keeps the commandments
- Therefore, a man is holy if he keeps the commandments.
To further elaborate on my last post. If one defines "holiness" as keeping the commandments of God, one shows they seriously misunderstand what holiness is. Why? Because such a definition does not start with God. If holiness is to be understood, it must be understood in relation to how God "is" holy. Is God holy because God obeys Himself and loves Himself? Obviously not.
The issue of holiness is the issue of "otherness." God is "entirely other" as Art Katz was fond of saying. And it is the essence of this "otherness" that makes God holy. It's something God is in and of Himself. We are speaking something about his "ontological" being. Holiness is the issue of God's very nature. It's "what" He is. And as a result of God being "holy," God acts out that holiness. A. W. Tozer was right to pin-point holiness as the chief characteristic of God out of which all other characteristics flowed.
And it is from this that we must understand personal holiness. Unless we understand personal holiness from who God is, then we are bound to enter into false notions that holiness is about keeping God's commandments. A performance based understanding of holiness is not in keeping with Scripture. We are called to "be holy as I am holy." Thus, since God by nature is holy other, we too are likewise called to be by nature, holy other. And we can only receive such when we have undergone this inward change of nature, whereby God makes us holy by means of the grace given to us through the new birth. In this, we "become" holy and other.
You see, when we were justified by God, we were sanctified and "set apart" from the rest of the sinful race of Adam. Instead of being men who were dead, we were set apart as men who were made alive. Instead of being enslaved to this fallen demonic world, we were raised up with Jesus Christ and made to sit in heavenly places with Him through the spiritual union we have in Him. These acts of God towards us have "made" us holy.
As a result of being made holy by the Lord, we act as the Lord acts. The Lord is holy, therefore, everything He does is in keeping with who He is by nature. Likewise, we have been made holy, therefore, everything we are to do ought to likewise be in keeping with who we have been made by nature. We are not holy because of what we do, rather, we are holy because of who we are. And that holiness of character will ultimately manifest itself in our very conduct, as we joyfully love God, and keep His commandments. We are not doing these things to become holy, rather we do these things because we are holy.
God is morally blameless because He always does what He knows is right. The Divine Will always obeys the Divine Conscience. God said, "man has become as one of us, to know good and evil" so God must have a conscience, He knows what is right and what is wrong. The Lord is good and perfect in all His ways, which means there must be some standard of goodness God obeys, which is His own conscience - He is a law unto Himself. "Will not the judge of all the earth do right?" presupposes that there is a standard of rightness for God to keep. That standarded is His own Divine Mind or Divine Conscience.
If we obey the law of God, as revealed to us through our conscience, then we are "holy, as God is holy". We cannot be holy in the same degree that God is holy, because He has more knowledge than we do. But we can be holy in the same way that God is holy, we can always do what we know is right.
Holiness is the opposite of sin. Sin is the free choice to do what you know is wrong. Therefore holiness is the free choice to do what you know is right.
...which means there must be some standard of goodness God obeys...
The standard God keeps is simply walking out his character and doing what comes naturally to Him. He has no "standard of goodness" that he "obeys."
Jesse, please repent of such heresy.
Moral character is determined by confirmity or disformity to moral law. If there is no moral law for God to obey, then God cannot have moral character. But there is no moral law outside of God, since nothing is coeternal with God. Therefore the moral law that God obeys must be a part of Himself. It is His Divine Mind. The moral aspect of His intelligence would be known as His Divine Conscience. From all of eternity, the Will of God has obeyed the Intelligence of God. Proverbs tells us that Wisdom was with Him in the beginning.
Moral law is not some artbitrary invention of His. The moral law is a part of His very NATURE. Just as Gentiles do by NATURE the things contained in the law, their conscience.... So part of God's nature is His conscience. The nature of our personality is intelligence, emotions, and free will. Part of intelligence is conscience. Part of God's nature is conscience. Therefore moral law is part of God's nature, not some creation of His. Your nature is your constitution, your make up.
Moral character is determined by confirmity or disformity to moral law. If there is no moral law for God to obey, then God cannot have moral character.
God "gave" law, law was not "given" to God. The law God created and gave issues out of who God is. God is not subjected to any law. He simply does what God does out of who He is by NATURE.
For example, in Hebrews we read about how God "took an oath" in order to provide us assurance that what He said would indeed come to pass. And we have assurance, because it is "impossible" for God to lie. Why? Because lying is not in keeping with who God is by nature. God is not a liar, therefore, God does not lie. Therefore, if God takes an oath and promises to do something, we can be absolutely sure God will do it. Why? Because God is going to obey some sort of law? Nonsense. God is going to do it because God IS faithful, and will do what He says He will do. Not out of some sense of "moral obligation." God is not obliged to do anything other than be Himself.
God did not create moral law, God revealed moral law. God revealed to us part of His own nature, that is, his conscience, knowledge, and wisdom.
If moral law was created, how can you explain how there was sin before the law came, since sin is transgression of the law?
“(For until the law sin was in the world . . .”
The Law of Moses did not originate right and wrong. Rather, it declared right and wrong, since sin existed before the law was given. The law reveals what sin is, to point it out.
“Was then that which is good [the law] made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working [spiritual] death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.” Rom. 7:13
“I had not known sin, but by the law . . .” Rom. 7:7
Your eating too many Banana's or fruitloops.Therefore the moral law that God obeys must be a part of Himself.
truefaithsav wrote:
God did not create moral law, God revealed moral law.
So, God is not the creator of everything?
God did not create moral law, God revealed moral law.
Galatians 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added...
The law was "added." We can use the word "revealed" if you prefer. But either way, it was "added" according to the apostle Paul. And it's "addition" is merely what is in keeping with what God is by nature. It was "added...because of transgressions" Paul further says in the same verse.
Romans 5:20 The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
At any rate, all of this is off topic. I'd like to keep to the purpose of the thread, a discussion on the difference between legalism and holiness, and what the fundamental differences between the two are. If you want to talk about the nuanced and fundamental issues of the law, do that on another thread. I might even join you. Just don't hijack this one and ruin it like you always do.
Earlier in this thread I believe I clearly defined what holiness in its essence is. Holiness is the issue of being by nature "other." God is "holy" not because He keeps a bunch of rules and regulations. There are no rules and regulations for God to keep. Rather, God simply acts out of His own character, and who He is. Likewise, we are holy not out of obeying a bunch of rules and regulations, rather, we are holy because God has made us such, and all that we do is to be in step with what God has made us.
Legalism is ultimately the issue of conformity to outward rules and regulations. It's not ultimately about the issues of the heart or Spirit. It's about what one does, or often more importantly, what one does not do.
Though the phrase "legalism" is never used in the Scriptures, I believe the "legalistic" mindset can be ultimately found in the mindset of Pharisaic Judaism. The Pharisees bought into a "works righteousness" mentality whereby one did or did not do certain actions in order to get and stay right with God. Righteousness was demonstrated in the strict adherence to the law of Moses. And this "strict adherence" ultimately caused them to look at every jot and tittle of the law of Moses, in order to discern how God wanted them to live. And anytime the law of Moses was a little unclear on a matter under question, Talmudic "tradition" was appealed to in order to solve these problems. (i.e. How far can one venture from their "home" on the sabbath, and what exactly constitutes one's "home"?)
After all, they just had to know right from wrong, so they could know what to do or not do, because they wanted to obtain salvation in this life and the life to come. So, these traditions of men developed in combination with the law into a very spiritually oppressive system. The Jews discerned that the Mosaic law contained 613 unique laws, and added to this law their own traditions.
Of course, when Christ came onto the scene, He utterly dismantled their understanding. He showed us that salvation was not to be found in terms of law keeping, but rather, it was found by means of entering into a new relationship with God through the new birth. Through this, Jesus taught one would naturally come to keep the demands of the law because of this new spiritual reality and inward disposition.
Yes, adding "the traditions of men" to the law of God is legalism, but such is not legalism in its essence. Legalism at its essence in attempting to secure favor and salvation from God on the basis of performance. "You have to live right to go to heaven!!!" Adding on the traditions of men, in addition to the law of God, is merely a symptom of an underlying theology that is works based, instead of grace based at its core. You would not be adding on these traditions and extra laws, unless you were trying to somehow earn your salvation. When one comes across various groups today who add on all sorts of odd rules and regulations that are not clearly taught in the Scripture, and do things like damn a woman for wearing jeans instead of a dress, discern that these teachings are usually built on a foundation of works based salvation, and are fundamentally one and the same with Pharisaic Judaism.
But when one sees salvation is received by grace through faith, and when one lives a life free from the law under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, one never feels compelled to add any more additions to the commandments of God. Indeed, why would one feel the need to add to the commandments of God when one is not living by them to begin with? Indeed, the law was never "added" to impart life, but rather, to only bring about death. Those who "live" by the law will also die by the same law. The saint of God realizes this, knowing that the law does not give life, but rather, the Spirit of God does. Never once did the law open the eyes of the blind or raise the dead, and likewise, never did adhering to it ever give man salvation. Rather, it is the Spirit of God that does these things.
*edit*
A few years ago I taught the following Sunday school lesson on the issue of Biblical holiness vs. Legalism. It talks on this very issue, and expounds it in great detail. There are one or two statements I make in this lesson that I probably don't agree with anymore. But I believe you will be blessed by this lesson just the same:
Legalism is applying "the law" to others.
Holiness is applying "the law" to oneself.
HeartSong wrote:Legalism is applying "the law" to others.
Holiness is applying "the law" to oneself.
[i]Ro 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Mt 22:37-40 Jesus replied: [color=CC3300]“ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”[/color]
Hi Everyone,
The issue of how modesty in dress relates to holiness/legalism is an interesting one...
I would say, in regards to this, that 'being specific' about the details of how we dress may not be the problem, so much as 'being too specific'. By this, I mean that if a church were to lay out guidelines as to how all women in the church should dress, by coming up with the exact length of a dress that was considered appropriate, and by stipulating just how low a neckline should be, I believe this would represent legalism. It would be looking to 'rules' rather than 'principles', to guide us in practice and behaviour.However, being somewhat specific (as opposed to very specific
:-) ) might be necessary and valuable, in terms of healthy communication that takes place among Christians on the topic of modesty.
Just as a means of illustration, say my daughter (who is now 9) and my wife were to have a discussion about what 'modesty' was. My wife could, in general terms, describe to her that it was an attitude of the heart which motivates us to dress in ways which honour God, and which refrain from stirring up sexual desires in members of the opposite sex. However, at some point, it would be valuable for my wife and daughter to discuss some 'specifics' as to what modest dress looks like. For example, my wife might explain that dresses should have 'necklines which are not revealing'. Similarly, she might point out that 'tight fitting clothes, in general tend to draw attention to a woman's figure in a way which can be suggestive'.
Just wondering if this distinction makes sense to others; the idea that specifics are valuable in regards to discussing modesty, but being too specific, to the point where you are regulating dress accdording to man made standards, is not, and it tends to cultivate legalism.
In Jesus,
John
many good definitions here, i really liked yours brother Jimmi. The question what is the difference between the two, i would answer the heart....
Two men or women can live outwardly just the same, one can go to hell the other be in Gods perfect will. Jesus never did anything that was not holy, he did much we would consider holy acts, he prayed, he fasted, he read scripture, he did not use profane language, he feeed the poor and so on.
But if we read the scriptures the Pharisees did all of those things to....
So to me, the difference is the heart, some may call someone a legalist that lives very pleasing to the Lord, and another may live exactly the same, even more "holy" life and yet be an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
I very much like a statement Keith Daniel makes in one sermon, "holiness with out Christ is heresy".
To me holiness as scripture reveals it is Jesus Christ, and the elect are being transformed into his likeness, the problem is we so often try transform people into our image and our persuasion what Christ is like. How my denomination views Christ, how i was brought up how Christ is etc.
I think this video can be good for this topic to, not just for the topic in the video but it is true for many aspects in the christian life.
for me their our certain things that professing christians that i am around do that i don't think a christian should be doing like watching the majority of television shows today like pro wrestling, those shows on lifetime, wgn, abc, mtv basically 90 percent is something i would consider unholy and even most christian channels have garbage. Almost every hollywood move should be an offense to a real christian and video games or most of them we should be avoiding, celebrating halloween, going to bars unless your going to witness, basically fulfilling the desires of the flesh, we know if we our walking in the spirit that these things we would want nothing to do with and even sports would seem pointless if we were really strong in the spirit.
KJ said,
When I began this post, it was to add my 2 cents. It's Saturday morning, and I had time... It's a bit more than 2 cents now, but I hope in drawing scriptures together, and a few famous hymns, there is nothing controversial in what follows.Just to add my two cents into this matter, because I think this is something often misinterpreted by almost everybody, but Christ's statement in the sermon on the mount, to "BE perfect" as our heavenly Father is, must be understood in this exact same manner as "being" holy. It's not something we strive for, rather, it is something we are to walk in, as we have been made perfect by the blood of Jesus Christ.*edited*
The apostle John said: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1
Percy Gutteridge, in his sermon 'Father of Lights', after showing that Adam and Eve lost the light by which they were gilded - the sign that they were created in the image of God, which made them different from animals (Rom 8:19 - 24) defines the effective working of 'the cross' in our lives as 'walking in the light'. I would agree that it is truly challenging to sin and the flesh, to 'walk in the light, as He is in the light'.
So... in defining 'holiness', it cannot be removed from the washing of the blood of Christ, which can occur only as we walk in the light [u]as He is in the light[u]my
being cleansed by the blood effectually, rests upon [i]Christ's[b][i]I
[u]My choice[u]sets me apart[u]in
In respect to 'the spirit of holiness', (Rom 1:4), we cannot begin to claim it, unless we have previously laid claim to have died in Christ, and are now being raised to life with Him. (Rom 6:4; Eph 1:20; Eph 2:5, 6)
If our 'holiness' is not as a result of having agreed with God to set ourselves apart unto Him, and to walk in Christ, the Way, then we are not correctly reading His definition as it is in the historical revealation of scripture. (Eph 5:13)
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. 5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1
[i]'... O how shall I, whose native sphere
Is dark, whose mind is dim,
Before the Ineffable appear,
And on my naked spirit bear
That uncreated beam?
There is a way for man to rise
To that sublime abode:[b]An offering and a sacrifice,
A Holy Spirit’s energies,
An Advocate with God.
These, these prepare us for the sight
Of holiness above;
The sons of ignorance and night,
May dwell in the eternal Light,
Through the eternal Love.
[url=http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/e/t/etelight.htm]Eternal Light! Eternal Light!
The Bride eyes not her garment, but her dear Bridegroom’s face;
I will not gaze at glory but on my King of grace.
Not at the crown He giveth but on His piercèd hand;
The Lamb is all the glory of Immanuel’s land.
Worthy, O Lamb of God, art Thou,
That every knee to Thee should bow!
[url=http://www.stempublishing.com/hymns/ss/150][i] - Tune: Supremacy
Regarding legalism, there are many in churches who have an outward show of holiness. They apply a discipline to what can be seen of their outwards lives. I did this for many years, not knowing what was wrong with my [u]in
In itself, discipline is not wrong. A disciple with no discipline is no disciple, after all!
However, by what is a disciple of Christ supposed to be disciplining himself?
Is it not this - the putting on of the new man? The putting off of the old man? The laying aside the things listed by Paul and Peter (mainly), when they are comparing 'holy' conversation with ungodly living?
There is also, linked to Paul's thesis about being raised in Christ, the effectual working of the grace of God through His Spirit, which [i][b]enables
For instance, compare Paul's testimonies here: Gal 1:13 (remembering that until Acts 10, all Christians were previously Jewish) and, Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. (See again Eph 1:19.)
This is Peter's testimony also: 2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [i]pertain[b]having [u]escaped
Are we on the run from [i]sin
Where to? Our own devices, or, Christ?
[i]By the cross of Jesus standing,
Love our straitened souls expanding,
Taste we now the peace and grace!
Health from yonder tree is flowing,
Heav'nly light is on it glowing,
From the blessed Sufferer's face.
Here is pardon's pledge and token,
Guilt's strong chain forever broken,
Righteous peace securely made;
Brightens now the brow once shaded,
Freshens now the face once faded,
Peace with God now makes us glad.
All the love of God is yonder,
Love above all thought and wonder,
Perfect love that casts out fear!
Strength, like dew, is here distilling,
Glorious life our souls is filling,
Life eternal, only here!
Here the living water welleth;
Here the Rock, now smitten, telleth
Of salvation freely given:
This the fount of love and pity,
This the pathway to the city,
This the very gate of Heaven.
Horatius Bonar
HeartSong wrote:
Legalism is applying "the law" to others.Holiness is applying "the law" to oneself.
You guys are so focused on the word “holiness” that you shut others down if you perceive they have gotten it wrong. THAT is legalism, my dear friends! :)
[b]Do we not realize that holiness is an individual issue that no man can judge?
In the parable of Matthew 20.1-16 Every man that worked received a penny; from those that labored all day to those that only worked one hour. The ones who had been there the longest (to me who thought they knew it ALL), murmured against the good man of the house about the younger ones getting to much.
The person who newly comes to Christ, if they are doing what is required of them, they are holy. If the person that has walked with Christ 65 years, if they are still doing what Christ has called them to do, they are holy.
I have looked and looked through the Bible for a set of rules for holiness and there is none! Read 1 Cor 7. 13-15 [i]And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean;[b]but now are they holy.
Paul is calling an unbeliever holy. Now if that doesn’t blow what you consider to be holy out of the water, nothing will!
:) :) There will be those of you who will murmur against this but that is ok. I didn't say it, Paul did. Take it up with him when you see him next!!
God bless you all in your walk with the Goodman of the house!!
I appreciate the responses on this thread.
It's a shame that extra-biblical teachings that have put yokes on bondage on sincere people's necks,have scared many off from seeking to live a life of True Holiness unto The Lord.
We can life a sanctified lifestyle without being nuts and flakes.
I love and long for holiness, because Jesus is Holy, God is Holy and the Spirit is Holy and heaven is a holy place.
"Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God." Can one make oneself pure by obeying the moral law, never. I have struggled and struggled in vain to make myself right before God and i have always failed.Can i cleanse myself, can i purify my heart? I can't.Law reveals my sin and Christ shows the way of salvation from sin.He is an ever present Saviour from daily sin. Not my own efforts, they are not acceptable to God.
Its not about Christ and me, its about Christ only. Christ is all sufficient for my need of daily sanctification.
Holiness becomes you...
God truly wants the repentance of man, for man to make a volitional choice for Him...to openly repent before Him and to follow Him, to Call upon Him...
He wants good works towards Him based on a loving personal relationship from the heart, and not on good works based on a reliance of oneself… or in ones' ability to live holy by following a given set of rules – and yes there is a difference.
Yes, there are moral rules and guidelines to follow and understand concerning holiness, but they are to instruct me in the ways of righteousness and holiness as I seek Him inwardly, and personally ...and they teach me of the nature of Jesus.
The scriptures give me an understanding of the nature of Him who has called me out of this world to be His son, to a new life in Him which set apart, which is hidden in Christ Jesus - the Holy Spirit bears witness to this truth.
His good works in me (holiness) comes, not based on my own understanding of what true holiness is, but rather based on the inner workings of the Holy Spirit in my heart since I accepted Him, and it is in my yielding to Him in all things in obedience, and not on my adherence to or on reliance of myself to seek His favour by doing good works (what I perceive as holiness). It's not what I can do, it's what He does does through me.
Because I love Him in the very pit of my soul, and am truly born of Him, I will seek out those things that always please Him, I will hate the things that He hates, and I will love the things that He loves...if only that I may have just one moment, just one moment in time that I may truly glorify Him in this earthly body...and this I will do as His Holy Spirit who is within me permits, and teaches me all things.
Does this mean that I will never make a mistake and never sin again? ...no it does not. I hope that I never sin again, but if I do, I know I have an advocate with the Father who is Jesus Christ the righteous. I know that if I acknowledge my sins before God, that He is faithful and just to forgive me and to cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness. And I dare say to anyone that would say that I need to have works in order to be saved and forgiven, that nothing but the precious blood of the Lamb can erase sins.
The bible teaches me that: Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
2 Corinthians 5:17
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation. Galatians 6:15
Hence and therefore my salvation is not based upon me believing that my good works toward Him (personal holiness) will save me (or even merit me any favor at all), but rather on a TOTAL reliance and surrender of my life to Him, and upon a reliance on Him for my holiness and righteousness, that He who has begun a good work in me will complete it until the very day of Jesus Christ. Philippians 1:6
I just need only to yield to Him, I just need only to yield to Him and say yes Lord Jesus, yes Lord...have your way in me and be glorified in me, let me be obedient to you through your Holy Spirit.
So then holiness is about relationship with God.
Be zealous for God in all things, and let your heart burn in love for Him...with a holy fervor in love. I have found when I apply this oil to my life that I find myself being very much in Love with the Author of my being, and because of that, how can I not love my brother when I see God in him...when it is God that I am in love with. 1 John 4:20 So even if my brother differs from me in understanding, I still love God in him...and will endeavor to treat him with respect as one who has my Father's image.
Love comes from the Holy Spirit...and when this Oil Flows, my lamp is always full of oil at ALL times, night or day and at any hour. And if a person does this, they will not be numbered among the foolish virgins who did not keep oil in their lamps.
So to keep my lamp full, I will ask God to give me the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) so that I will always stay in love with God, full of faith, good works, holiness and of the Holy Spirit, and endeavor to keep the unity of the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
Holy Spirit come, in brightness of your coming, and in truth. Fill our lamps with oil, so that we can see in the dark. Break the bonds of sin in us your children, and let us see with perfect light, with the oil that you have given us in our lamps.
Let my heart love you in the depths and to the core of my being, to core of who I am...forever and ever. Amen. Father, take not your Holy Spirit from me and forgive me for my trespasses, and let me love you with perfect love in my soul, and let me show this love in everything that I do.
Let my life be seasoned with salt, and let the sweet smelling savor of my Lord Jesus be perfected within me, till I come into the image of my Lord whom I love. My heart is tender and contrite before Him...melted within me, by the holy fire of God's love, as wax before the Flame. Oh how I love and extol the living God! Oh how pleased I am with Him! With deepest humility, I want to state that I am grateful that the Lord has saved me, and washed me from my sins, and that my name is written down in heaven!
What a beautiful post Earendel.
It is all about Christ and the blessedness of all that He is.
Thank you, and God bless you.
I enjoyed reading your post brother, but perhaps a clearer explanation on this quote is in in order.His good works in me (holiness)
What is good works to you? Define good works if you don't mind.
The reason why I ask these questions is that you've linked "good works" with holiness.
Is it good works that makes a man holy?
The Buddist Monks live by a strict moral code and if one were to look into their lives we would have to conclude that these people are holy, IF the definition of holiness is by good works.
I think adherence to a moral code is simply separation. But holiness is something else.
God says, "Be ye holy as I am holy".
God called sinning Israel a holy nation, peculiar, set apart. And they were anointed as He said in another place, "touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm".
Someone stated earlier that holiness is a state of being. I am beginning to believe that. God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.
Something to consider. :-(
Well said Earendel.
Someone stated earlier that holiness is a state of being. I am beginning to believe that. God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.
I don't have the reference off hand, but I believe it Leviticus there is a verse that says, "I am the Lord that sanctifies you...." Being "sanctified" or "set apart" is altogether the issue of holiness. And this is clearly the work of God upon us. Yes, the Levites had a role to play in that holiness as they carried out their tasks as priests. But the tasks they carried out as priests was a mere demonstration of the sanctifying work of God upon them. God is the one who "makes" us holy. He sets us apart, and makes us different. He makes us "other" than what we are, and in doing that distinguishes us from the rest of the race of Adam, and all of fallen humanity.
Another comparison I would like to make, and have used this when teaching in the pass. If we measure holiness in terms of a yardstick, as many are prone to do (i.e. dresses a certain length, and other issues of performance), then we run into a major problem. God is holy. But if we define holiness in terms of the yardstick, we run into a problem because a yard stick is only the length of a yard. God is much bigger than the yard stick, and cannot be measured.
Therefore, holiness is not to be defined by the yardstick, but must be defined by God, who is immeasurable. Any understanding of holiness that does not ground itself in who God "is," but instead talks about adherence to rules and regulations, is nothing short of error. You cannot measure God who is holy, therefore, how can we be measured by such things if we are holy?
DeepThinker wrote:God being in us automatically makes us holy. It's not an act on my part to "become" holy, holiness is where God is and God is in us. We are peculiar and set apart.
Correct, it is God in us (by His Holy Spirit) that makes us holy (set apart), and He leads us in His ways.
Please consider this:
Jesus gives us a good example in [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2010:30-37&version=NASB]Luke 10:30-37
Those who are born of the Spirit will do the works inspired by the Spirit, we just need to follow His lead. :-)
Loved both your answers King Jimmy and Earendel.
KJ said,
There is a connection here, between the Levites and Christ, of which we should not lose sight:Yes, the Levites had a role to play
Num 3:12 And I, behold, I have taken the Levites from among the children of Israel [u]instead of [b]all
And Luke 2:23.
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