SI posters called to be of one mind and have no divisons.

I think 1 Peter 4v1 is key.

"...for he that hath suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin."

We haven't suffered.

I dunno, for the years I have been on SI, I have always felt a great deal of unity amongst us, even when we disagree. There is definitely room for all of us (read: me) to grow, but, I think in generally we are a pretty good bunch. When I went to the Revival Conference in Barnsdale earlier this year, I was glad to meet many of the brothers and sisters that I've discussed many topics with. Some whom I have disagreed with many times here in the forum I still felt a great affection for.

:-)

"If then there is any encouragement in Christ,
any consolation from love, any fellowship in Spirit,
any compassion and sympathy, make my joy complete;
be of the same mind, having the same love, being
of one accord and of one mind. Do nothing from
selfish ambition or vain conceit, but with humility
regard others as better than yourselves."

What do you suppose would happen if we followed Paul's admonition ??

Hi KingJimmy...

I agree. There are individuals here at SermonIndex that I have disagreed with, but the love that I hold for them is very real. Even with all of the disagreements regarding some doctrinal issues, there is a real unity by the fact that we all love our Lord and are desperate to know Him and see His Word revealed in us and in the Church.

Paul calls for unity through the working of God amongst His people. Paul teaches that unity only comes after God reveals who is walking with the Lord...

1Cr 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

Unity is depended upon two things, God proving those who declare the truth, and those who are in error, repent.

In Christ
Jeff

Good topic, thingsabove. Thank you.

[i]Ro 12:3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.[/i]

I struggle with the above verse myself, but I have observed that those with strong faith in God, as evidenced in their lives, tend to think less of themselves, and vice-versa.

These two things: [u]Faith in God[/u] and [u]Pride in Self[/u] have an inverse mathematical relationship. When the first goes up, the second comes down; and when the first goes down, the second goes up. Basic Christian algebra. Unity is easy under the first scenario.

While I appreciate all of the kindly-worded replies, I am going to be the first one to disagree. Without mentioning any names, there is not a kindred spirit and any real appreciation or friendliness among all posters on this thread. Some have recently even denounced the salvation of others and belittled their doctrine and beliefs.

I am in hearty agreement with the original post and believe it should be more seriously considered and honored. Based on his past input, I think Greg would support this. This means it is not your personal prerogative to enact some form of church discipline or denounce those you disagree with on this forum, as has been the general behavior of quite a number to this date. My understanding of the original post is that this behavior should change. This would be most welcome by myself and others, and it [i]would[/i] be a change.

Greetings

I have a question that I have been thinking and praying about for some time now. In Amos chapter 3 verse 3 "Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?"

How does this apply? Is the idea of "agree to disagree" found in the Bible among early believers as an acceptable way to deal with situations? I am just really trying to understand this, it has come up in my own walk with some. If we are one body of believers working together in union with Him to further His kingdom, then how does it work if there is no agreement?

This is and has been really confusing to me for along time to be honest.
God Bless
mj

We are often victims of our "environmental chill". How easy we get trapped in argument and think we have the truth and the other part should be humble enough to accept their error and change their minds about their wrong opinions.

From my experience i have found out that in my zeal for the truth i do more harm then good when i speak what i believe to be true without love and genlteness.

MaryJane:

I have a question that I have been thinking and praying about for some time now. In Amos chapter 3 verse 3 "Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?"

You can agree with you brother/sister in Christ to disagree about secondery matters that dont affect our salvation in Christ.Many of us lack the Spirit of wisdom and revelation that Paul prayed about for the ephasians.

Many dont say it or acknowledg it, but i have figured out that theological speculations have a great deal to do with our prejudices. We often read the bible with an already well shaped prejudice that is deep rooted in our subconscience.

A simple example is 5 points of Calvinism or the 5 points of Arminianism. We show so much fidelity to a narrow man-made theological system that we often interprete the bible according to the principles of our theological philosophy.

I gave you just 2 classical examples, there is no doubt that there are good points in those systems but their is no such narow theological system in the bible.

Unity is in the Word of God and the Spirit of God. Unity of faith comes as we grow in Christ to maturity of believers.Unity in sound doctrine yes but its not the 5 points of calvinism or 5 points of arminianism, its in the whole revalation of the New Testamant inspired teaching and the doctrines of the apostles and not the doctrines of reformed churches or wesleyan churches or charismatic churches and you name it.

Hi Sister Mary Jane…

I have a question that I have been thinking and praying about for some time now. In Amos chapter 3 verse 3 "Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?"

How does this apply? Is the idea of "agree to disagree" found in the Bible among early believers as an acceptable way to deal with situations? I am just really trying to understand this, it has come up in my own walk with some. If we are one body of believers working together in union with Him to further His kingdom, then how does it work if there is no agreement?

When I think about the childlike simplicity of a Gospel that drew children to crowd around Jesus, I am reminded about the council in Jerusalem that met to discuss the ministry of Paul to the Gentiles. Some believers had come to Syria and were insisting that Gentiles must fulfill the right of circumcision in order to be saved. This created a strong enough debate until Paul and Barnabas were appointed to accompany other believers to Jerusalem in order to meet with the apostles and elders about this question (Acts 15:1-21).

When the apostles met to consider this question, Peter stood up and reminded the brethren that the law had been a yoke that no Jews had been able to bear. He went on to remind them that it is only be grace that we are all saved – Jew and Gentile (verse 10-11). James went further, saying that we should not make it difficult for people to be saved (verse 19). In fact, the apostles wrote their conclusion in an epistle that was sent along with Paul, Barnabas, Silas and Judas. In this letter, the apostles stated, “[i] For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well[/i]” (Acts 15:28-29).

This was pretty simple. There was no discussion of sectarian theological requirements for complete doctrinal “unity” or “salvation.” There was no discussion about whether or not a person is predestined to be saved…or could possibly lose their salvation or walk away from knowing and loving God. There were no mandates about music, eschatology, dress, or which available scrolls of Scripture were the most reliable or authentic. Yet I have met believers today who will part company and even dismiss the faith of those with whom they disagree about certain doctrinal peculiarities. If you want to be a “member” of many denominational churches, you must agree upon certain sectarian doctrinal prerequisites. Even many local churches require compliance with certain local doctrinal teachings just to fellowship with the congregation!

Now, I have no problem with requiring adherence to essential doctrines. However, who gets to define just what is “essential?” I have seen churches which desire to dictate whether or not men can wear facial hair! There are congregations who will expel pastors and congregants who are not “pre-trib.” There are probably congregations who will expel those who are not “post-trib” too. I fear that some of these strict doctrinal prerequisites actually work [i]against[/i] the faith. They can give some individuals a false sense of security based upon legalistic compliance with localized sectarian dogma. They might actually serve to thwart the need for individuals to “work out their own salvation with fear and trembling” (Philippians 2:12). I have noticed that some of the people who are praying for “unity” are often praying that people will agree with those doctrinal issues that they (currently) feel certain of.

Of course, there are certain issues that are beyond debate. These are exceedingly clear from Scripture and are generally accepted by all believers. Hebrews 6:1-2 seemingly lays out some of these basic principles (such as repentance, the resurrection, faith in God and even eternal judgment). However, do we really need to agree about every last thing that is discussed under various church steeples? Should even more denominations be created in the hope to “unite” individuals around the specific things that often divide them from others?

Personally, I feel comfortable enough to fellowship with believers within a broad range of doctrinal diversity. I can worship, fellowship and break bread with a Baptist congregation in one town, a Methodist congregation in another town and a Pentecostal congregation in another. This is certainly NOT an embrace of every doctrine that might be espoused or proclaimed within these local churches (or those denominations). Rather, it is recognizing that the Body of Christ is much larger than a local church or set of beliefs that seem to vary from person-to-person and congregation-to-congregation. Even if someone doesn’t believe as I do in regard to certain peculiarities, I feel the grace to genuinely fellowship with those who profess a sincere relationship with our Lord.

:-)

We've all seen the tone of some here who come across as arrogant, condescending, and self aggrandizing. And the response to such is a reaction that starts a cycle of argument.

In Christianity we see the same - only the bullying is in the spiritual. Much of what passes for a believer's theological system is often nothing more than a gang's "color"; a means of identification and a public statement and warning to other believers with opposing colors that they will be aggressed on the spot.

The ubiquitious justification for all this seems to be "preserving the truth" - or their interpretation of the gospel as they see it. What they are doing is defending a set of ideals and shades put in their minds from the influences and surmizings of other men who once walked in the very rank and file which they find themselves today. Many of them have become so spiritually paranoid that they've long ago taken their eyes off the Common Master and have put them instead on the fellow sevants, bludgeoning them with a Sword that was never meant to pierce friendly armor.

But how can you convince an aggressor that his fellow combatant is really a friend in a different uniform? How do you stop a child from bullying his classmates? Speaking directly to them in admonishment is not enough; in their minds they are fulfulling a valiant mission. If they believed for a second that it was all a smokescreen to cover their own secret unrest and failure to content themsevles in Christ, they would at once stop and reevaluate their motives. But they are blind to it, and not only that, they'll even brandish their swords to them that now profess to see.

Through contentment and peace and joy in the Lord, discerment for the true enemy is granted by our Captain. Sometimes the enemy is very obvious, marching centerfield with drums and fifes - but other times it is guerilla warfare and sniper shots. Tactical understanding for rules of engagement is not granted to foolhardy believers who memorized just enough of their pet preacher's or pet theologian's handbook of battle. These are they who, more often than not, are responsible for either making the mistake of friendly fire, or a public nuclear air-strike when all that was needed was one strategic gunshot.

Brother Paul

thingsabove wrote:
Here on the mighty, Sermon index, where the posters are the cream of the revival crop. Who wants to get low and be not wise in our own eyes?

I mean really. Where is the warm, humble hearts of true revival and like mind?

I am not saying we have to smile and agree even if it is blatant error. But we need to inventory ourselves on this. Below are some key scriptures calling us to be of one mind.

Now how can we achieve this here on SI?

It's our flesh brother... our innate need to be right and to set someone else straight, bro that battles. (I mean really, if we don't do it, then who will??? lolol) When we overcome the need to be right and the "need" to be God's armor bearer and to protect His holy word, then we will stop.

If God can cause the rocks to cry out worship and praise unto Him... can He? Then He is fully capable of taking care of all heretics running around on SI!! (huge grin)

Again... just my fifty cents worth, take it or leave it!

Kripsy said:

The unity is in our common faith in Jesus... our unity is that we believe the same thing about who Jesus was, and the salvation He came to offer us. But there are things that will never be resolved here on earth.

Amen! You all speak the truth in the sense that the tenor of this forum changes from time to time, and all views expressed so far are accurate at certain times.

I have been blessed with a lot of encouragement and a lot of learning in this forum. I love you all.

greetings

Thank you everyone for taking the time to answer my question. I really appreciate your insights that you shared and found them to be really helpful. I am going to share these things with my husband this evening. I think God is showing me that its really important to understand the difference between opinions and convictions.

God bless
maryjane

...I do understand this desire for unity. That said: I am not sure that this “unity of doctrine” was quite the same thing that some believers might suppose. I just can’t see the early Church picking apart some ideas and turning them into complicated prerequisites for doctrinal “unity.”

If the Lord is really Lord of a group of lives they will be in harmony like members of an orchestra that are observing the Conductor's lead, even if they have very different instruments and have different parts to play.

An interesting point in Acts 2 is that harmony was established before the visible signs of the Holy Spirit's outpouring:-

[color=0000CC]Acts 2:1-2 - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, [b]they were all with one accord[/b] in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven...[/color]

It looks to me that this harmony was a result of the group earnestly seeking God for the previous 40 days. As each person sought God, they came into harmony with God, and were naturally in harmony with each other.

This is the real key to revival. As Jesus promised:-

[color=0000CC]Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together [b]in my name[/b], there am I in the midst of them.[/color]

I think "In his Name" means in union with his heart and purpose, as opposed to a purely mental consent to a list of theological principles. When this happens God turns up.

PassingThru

DeepThinker wrote:

Well I simply disagree!! :-P

I've been goin to a very small home church and they are related with Christian & Missionary Alliance. There is emphases in this small group in higher christian living and that what i long for.

C&AM was formed as a missionary society joined by evangelical christians from different denominations who had a heart to reach the lost and preach the gosple to the all world.

They used to have a rich heritage of 'unity in essentials, freedom in not essentials, and charity in all things."

Alas! this denomination is not what used to be but my point is that true unity of genuine christians with different convictions is possible if we are humble and in a right relationship with God.

We focus too much in hair splitting thats an indication to me of narrowness of our hearts.The path of holiness is narrow but our hearts should be large and filled with holy affections for our brothers & sisters.

I am reminded of the speck that we want so often to pluck out our brother's eye and often "forget" the beam in our eye.

Some very good thoughts offered up. The issue regarding the unity of the faith is something very near and dear to my heart. Indeed, understanding what Biblical unity is and how it can exist is something that I've come to learn through a lot of pain.

As some of you may recall, just around the turn of the New Year, I suffered a horrible heartbreak when a woman I was in a relationship with for 4 years, and engaged to for 3, called off our engagement. There were a number of reasons for this, but one of the underlying reasons is that she ultimately could not find it in her heart to marry somebody who wasn't committed to the denomination our church is in, and doesn't agree to all of it's official doctrinal positions.

She just failed to see how we could have unity in our marriage and in our respective ministries if we did not agree in all these things. She was worried how this would impact our future children and what they believed. The primary issue we disagreed over? Whether or not speaking in tongues was the initial physical evidence of having received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

My ex-fiance bought into the deception that unity is achieved and maintained through outward doctrinal conformity. Many Christians have bought into this deception as well. What is to be the true source of our unity?

John 17: 22 The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one; 23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity...

The true source of our unity is supposed to be in the reality of the glory we share in Christ. The Father had glorified the Son says Jesus, and Jesus says that glory He has given to us "that they may be one."

I realized this early on in my Christian development, after I had gone through a period of time where I thought I could have no unity with anyone unless they agreed with me on about 100% of every issue. Then I went to Bible college where I frequently had contact with other believers who had some very different views than I did. It was a small college, and my interaction with the other brothers and sisters there was frequent, and our debates were frequent. With many I had put up a wall of separation. Yet, the more I interacted with many of these saints, I truly began to see them for what they were: saints.

I could not deny it, these men and women who I had some pretty rough discussions with in class had a glow about them. The more I was around them, the more I realized that Jesus Christ was truly alive in them. I saw the Spirit of God in them. I saw God's glory rest upon their lives. By the time I finished Bible college, one of the people who I simply could not stand from the moment I met him became one of my closest companions by the time I was done. Why? Because the Holy Spirit within me bore witness with this brother, that the Holy Spirit was also alive in him!

It is the reality of the living Christ within us that is to be the source of our unity. This is something that I sadly could not get my ex-fiance to see. She saw unity through doctrinal and organizational conformity, not through the reality of our mutual experience in the Lord. My logic is, "If Jesus Christ indeed dwells in you, and ministers through you, then we can have unity." After all, if Jesus Christ is happy living in you, though you are Reformed in dogma, then even though I am much more Arminian in dogma, I can also be happy. After all, Jesus Christ is living in both of us, what more do we need to have unity? Only when I take my eyes off of "Christ in you," does disunity occur.

Some of you may roll your eyes at me as I say these things, as you can recall some recent hard posts I made concerning a certain individual who was lurking around on this forum. But my manner of speaking wasn't due to an insecurity in me, pride, or an agenda to bulldoze one theological school of thought that I just happened to disagree with in order that I might establish my own. You are welcome to think such a thing if you want. But nothing could be further from the truth of my heart. I am one who desires unity at all costs, and indeed, I have paid a great price by suffering a broken engagement with the woman I loved, who failed to see what the true source of our unity in Christ is supposed to be.

Perhaps I was wrong in my assessment of this individual who frequented the forums, heavily pushing his theological bent. But I am still utterly convinced such a person, in spite of their outward show, didn't have Jesus Christ living inside of them at all. As far as I'm concerned, they were utterly devoid of the Spirit and glory of God, and was a false brother who is sent by Satan to disrupt the unity of this forum and cause chaos.

Indeed, if you were to look at the sum of their posts, they never did anything but rain down misery. Who did they build up in the faith while they were here? Who did they comfort? Did they strengthen those who were weak in faith? Did they have an encouraging word? Did they regularly bring you closer to the Lord? Did they regularly pray for you?

I'm sorry, I cannot, and I absolutely refuse to have fellowship with such a "brother." I cannot have any unity with such a person. God forgive me if my discernment was wrong in regard to him. God forgive me indeed. I am more than willing to have a unified relationship with somebody, even if their theology is a bit off.

Now, have I said all this about this "brother" to somehow vindicate me and make me look good? Is this just a last ditch effort on my part to have the final say, or to tweak the knife in his back? God forbid I would ever do such a thing. I hope you don't believe such. God knows it's not in me to do any such thing anymore. Rather, I have only spoken this way and brought up this recent issue so as to highlight this precious truth of Scripture. That is my only aim.

The source of our unity is to be the mutual reality we experience as Jesus Christ lives and works within us.

The source of our unity is to be the mutual reality we experience as Jesus Christ lives and works within us.

Amen. As the threads show, many shared your view regarding that now-anonymous forum member, Jimmy. No need to explain. Let us just be thankful that he is gone.

Random thoughts this evening:

If God cannot work IN us, how can He work THROUGH us? It is good to consider the things being considered here.

[b]“To be a disciple means that we deliberately identify ourselves with God's interests in other people. 'That ye love one another; as I have loved you . . .'" Oswald Chambers[/b] It is very good to remember that God has an interest in the person you are responding to in a post. God, Himself! This can encourage us to have [u]that[/u] interest, to discern and identify with [u]that[/u] interest.

Galatians 6: 1 is also a wonderful test of whether or not a person is spiritual. Is there restoration?

Sometimes posting on Sermonindex can teach us what it is useful to say and [b]what is not[/b]. This can educate (grow up) a poster and spare someone else in a local fellowship.

Rehearsing long theological arguments should help the one who posts it to remember it.

First I had many lessons in how to respond when I was justly accused and suffered for it. Then I began to learn how to respond when I am unjustly accused and suffer for it. When we are treated wrongly, it is how we respond to that, that matters, that grows us up in Christ (a “shout out” to Paul West). May God make us usable.

It is so easy to love the lovable and humble. Oh how to truly love the truly “unlovable”, the proud, the boastful, the ones certain in their own way, the drive-by shooters or posters, the enemies of Christ ... as I have been.

I have to admit I greatly appreciate all of the lofty thoughts of unity expressed in the replies posted here. My soul is blessed in the bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood that have come forth in this thread and many other places as well. I am so encouraged when I see saints striving together for the faith and proclaiming their common identity in Christ. I only have one request of all who posted here. Tomorrow, when you are typing out your denunciation of another poster in these forums and condemning him to sure hell because of his rank heresy, and declaring that they cannot be saved because you know they are accursed from Christ, please re-read what you posted in this thread before you submit your latest post. Thank you.

Koheleth wrote:
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I only have one request of all who posted here. Tomorrow, when you are typing out your denunciation of another poster in these forums and condemning him to sure hell because of his rank heresy, and declaring that they cannot be saved because you know they are accursed from Christ, please re-read what you posted in this thread before you submit your latest post. Thank you.

LOL! This would have been a nice post except that now, you're the one pointing fingers with a passion. ;-)

Dear friend, I point no fingers. I have simply made a humble request and included myself since I also am a poster on this thread. Was my post unchristian? I surely hope not. I felt it was honest and true and done with a sincere love and concern for all, including the young and innocent, and so was appropriate in light of the original post. May the Lord bless you.

Leo_Grace wrote:

Koheleth wrote:
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.
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I only have one request of all who posted here. Tomorrow, when you are typing out your denunciation of another poster in these forums and condemning him to sure hell because of his rank heresy, and declaring that they cannot be saved because you know they are accursed from Christ, please re-read what you posted in this thread before you submit your latest post. Thank you.

LOL! This would have been a nice post except that now, you're the one pointing fingers with a passion. ;-)