Christ's Imputed Righteousness

IWantAnguish Nov 12, 2009

Can anybody define Christ's Imputed Righteousness for me?

We are justified through faith, and Christ's righteousness is imputed unto us.

Does this refer to the perfect life He lived on this earth as a man? Which include all the miracles, love towards unbelievers, love towards disciples, sorrow for the unrepentant, etc. etc.

Or does it refer to His essential qualities and complete divine character and holy righteousness as the eternal God who existed outside of time?

Or are both of these mingled through the incarnation of the Son of God?

NSCalvinist Nov 12, 2009

We are justified by the blood of Jesus Christ, not by the works of the law. The works of the law that Jesus performed were necessary for the atonement, but it is the atonement that justifies us, not the works of the law.

The atonement itself is sufficient for our justification, we do not need to add anything to it.

~~[b]~~Weslayan Arminianism says:[/b]

"It is nowhere stated in Scripture that Christ's personal righteousness is imputed to us. Not a text can be found which contains any enunciation of the doctrine." John Welsey (A Right Conception of Sin by Richard Taylor)

~~[b]~~New School Calvinists say:[/b]

“This is, if I understand it, the true doctrine of ‘imputation;’ not that there is any transfer of moral character from us to the Redeemer, or from him to us, and not that God literally ‘reckons’ or imputes our sins to him as his, or his righteousness to us as ours, but that his work may be estimated as performed in the place and on the account of sinful men, and that in virtue of that we may be regarded and treated as if it had been performed by ourselves.” Albert Barnes (The Atonement, Published by Bethany House, p. 315)

“God imputeth righteousness. Whom God treats as righteous... forgiven, and whose sins are not charged on him, but who is freed from the punishment due to his sins. Being thus pardoned, he is treated as a righteous man. And it is evidently in this sense that the apostle uses the expression ‘imputed righteousness’ i.e. he does not imputed, or charge on the man his sins; he reckons and treats him as a pardoned and righteous man.” Albert Barnes (Commentary on the Romans, p. 105)

“This passage [Rom. 4:5-8] deserves special attention, as it explains all those text that seem to favor, and have been construed to support the theory of the imputation of Christ’s active and passive righteousness to the sinner. Here it is manifest that justification, imputation of righteousness, forgiving iniquities, covering sins, and the non-imputation of sin, are phrases substantially of the same import, and decide positively that the Scripture view of the great doctrine under consideration, is an actual deliverance from the guilt and penalty of sin: from which it follows, that the phrases so often occurring in the writings of Paul – the righteousness of God and of Christ – must mean God’s righteous method of justifying the ungodly, through the atonement and by the instrumentality of faith – a method that upholds the rectitude of the Divine character, at the same time that it offers a full and free pardon to the sinner.” Asbury Lowrey, (Positive Theology, Published by R. P. Thompson, 1854, pg. 211-212)

“In theology, the remission of sin, and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner, and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.” Noah Webster’s 1828 Dictionary

“The doctrine of a literal imputation of Christ's obedience or righteousness is supported by those who hold it, by such passages as the following: Rom. iv. 5-8.—"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputed righteousness without works, saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." But here justification is represented only as consisting in forgiveness of sin, or in pardon and acceptance. Again, 2 Cor. v. 19, 21. "To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." Here again the apostle is teaching only his much-loved doctrine of justification by faith, in the sense that upon condition or in consideration of the death and mediatorial interference and work of Christ, penitent believers in Christ are forgiven and rewarded as if they were righteous." Charles Finney (Systematic Theology)

“Holiness isn’t something you can borrow – you either have it or you don’t. The theological doctrine of ‘imputed righteousness’ has been grossly distorted in our day. We are told that God looks at us through the blood of Christ and see’s us as righteous, regardless of our actual state… Let’s stop kidding ourselves. God sees us exactly the way we are. If we are living in obedience, He sees it. If we are living selfish, unholy lives, we can be sure he sees that too.” George Otis Jr. (The God They Never Knew, Published by Mott Media, p. 40)

“As one ‘made under the law’ (Ga. 4:4-5), Christ was obliged to obey and keep the law. Since He had to obey for Himself, He could not obey for others in the sense that His obedience could be literally imputed to them… while Christ could not obey for us, He could die entirely in our behalf since there was not the least guilt charged against Him for which He must die.” Gordon Olson (The Kindness of God Our Savior, Published by Revival Theology Promotions, p. 91)
“Forgiveness of sin, such that the penalty is not carried out, is sufficient to qualify as a definition of ‘imputed righteousness’… How could the Holy Spirit convict us of sin if he did not know we were sinning? How could we grieve the Spirit of God if he never saw us as anything other than righteous? God has a very good sense of reality, he knows when we sin, and he sees us exactly as we are.” Michael Saia (Understanding the Cross, Published by Xulon, p. 132).

IWantAnguish Nov 12, 2009

Hmm... beginning to see how denominations find their origins.

Thanks for the response.

roaringlamb Nov 12, 2009

Barnes was not a Calvinist, and even if he were, he would not be "new school".

BTW, welcome back Jesse!

EDIT: I understand what you mean by "new school", but let's not start getting into the Calvinist/Arminian thing again.

roaringlamb Nov 12, 2009

In response to the original question, 2 Corinthians 5:21(ESV) sums it up pretty well!

"21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Apart from imputation, there is no Gospel and no such thing as justification. Imputation makes the Gospel "Good News".

sermonindex Nov 12, 2009

all i can say is that without his righteousness we will never be able to stand before God and i also would say that because we sin does not mean that we lose Christ's righteousness but that we remain his children and he leads back always in love and sometimes in loving chastisement.

sermonindex Nov 12, 2009

Can anybody define Christ's Imputed Righteousness for me?
We are justified through faith, and Christ's righteousness is imputed unto us.

All centers upon the nature of the righteousness, justice, or goodness to which man can attain and upon the nature of the faith required in order to do so. Let us take first, therefore, the question of righteousness.

The Catholic Church te aches tha t at baptism (John 3:5) the soul passes from a state of original or inherited sin to a state of grace (Rom. 6:23). God does not merely declare the soul to be righteous or just in his sight. He makes the soul 'holy in itself by producing within it, through the activity of the Holy Ghost, a supernatural quality of spiritual goodness which is a true regeneration, renewal, or renovation (Tit. 3:5, 1 Pet. 3:21).

This spiritual quality incorporates us in Christ as his very members (1 Cor. 6:15), makes us live by him as the branches exist by the very life of the vine to which they belong (John 15:5), and through him enables us to become in a mysterious way sharers in the divine nature itself (2 Pet. 1:4).

The goodness, justice, righteousness, or holiness of a soul in a state of grace is, therefore, a reality and not merely a fiction. It is imparted to the soul by God, sanctifying it in its very nature. It is not merely imputed to the soul by God, leaving the soul still contaminated by the filth of sin.

This ennobling and consoling doctrine, the true teaching of the New Testament, Luther altogether rejected. Concentrating on the one text of Romans 1:16-17, and on others which he thought he could fit in with it, he overlooked all other.aspects of Christian doctrine taught elsewhere in the New Testament. He declared . that the Greek word used by Paul for righteousness (dikaiosune) means simply "acquitted," as one is acquitted or declared not guilty in a court of law. Such a decree, he said, makes no change in the acquitted person. He remains exactly as he was before. He is merely told that the law does not regard him as a criminal.

Therefore, according to Paul, argued Martin Luther, man's justification means that he is reputed or accounted as righteous in the sight of God, although he remains as sinful in his very nature as ever. The change is in God's disposition toward man, not in man himself. Henceforth God looks upon him with favor instead of disfavor, attributing to him the righteousness of Christ which is in no way really possessed within the soul.

Now it is quite true that Paul made use of a word which in the Greek language had the technical meaning of legal acquittal. And if the word can have no other meaning than that, one could scarcely dispute the interpretation of justification as implying no more than to be accounted as righteous or not guilty in the sight of God.

Luther's scholarly limitations

But Luther had not the advantages of modem scholarship. He belonged to an age when it was thought that the real meaning of the New Testament could be best ascertained by discovering the exact sense of the Greek language in which its books were originally written. Now even Protestant scholars are beginning to know better, for the Greek words took on a special sense when they were used by the New Testament writers to express Christian doctrines.

The pagan Greek language was itself practically "baptized," the Christians from the very beginning using it to express revealed, supernatural, and spiritual truths nowhere to be found in classical Greek literature. To understand New Testament Greek, then, it is not enough to have a Greek dictionary in hand; it is necessary to keep in mind the whole religious outlook of Christians according to the teachings given them by the apostles.

What, then, did Paul have in mind when he spoke of the soul's "justification"? He was indeed thinking of liberation from heathen darkness for the Gentiles, and from bondage to the Jewish Law for the Jews, as a consequence of embracing Christianity and giving one's wholehearted allegiance to Christ. But that was not the whole of his doctrine.

For him such a liberation was simply a presupposed condition of one's becoming a "new creature in Christ" (2 Cor. 5-17). A transforming process from a state of sin to that of sanctifying grace takes place in the soul, a simultaneous deliverance from guilt and an admission to a new and supernatural spiritual life.

In his denial of this Luther contradicted divine revelation as well as reason. The great emotional stress under which he was laboring when his new doctrine first dawned upon him blinded him to practically all else save the one thing by which he was so fascinated. As a matter of fact, when, later, others implored him to listen to reason, he replied contemptuously that reason is but a "prostitute" bent on seducing mankind.

But it was not only of the human intelligence that he took a gloomy view. He held that man has been so totally depraved by the Fall of Adam, that his heart and will have been so completely contaminated by inherited original sin, as to be rendered quite incapable of any good at all. Is it any wonder that he went on from such views to an entire repudiation of the Catholic doctrine in this matter?

Where modern unbelievers dishonor God by holding that man does not need redeeming at all and that he can manage quite well without God, Luther dishonored God by holding that the divine image is so utterly defaced in man that God himself cannot restore that image. The most God can do is to cover up his failure by a fiction, accounting a filthy soul righteous by covering up or hiding its evil condition with the garments of the righteousness of Christ.

The Catholic doctrine, on the other hand, neither dishonors God nor robs man of every vestige of human dignity. It declares man subject to sin and therefore in need of the redemption unbelievers reject, but it also declares that man is not so corrupt as to be incapable of a truly interior and spiritual renewal by grace.

From justification to faith

So much, then, for the doctrine concerning the nature of justification in itself. Now let us turn to the means by which it is claimed that it is brought about - faith.

Those Protestants who follow Martin Luther accuse Catholics of regarding faith merely as a form of knowledge or assent to doctrine instead of seeing it in the biblical and Protestant sense of confiding trust and the commitment of one's whole life to Christ. It would be a very great mistake to think that Catholics do not believe that, besides having faith in Christ, one should have also a confident trust in him and commit one's whole life to him. We Catholics insist that all three are necessary. It is an equally great mistake to imagine that the idea of faith as an assent to doctrine is unbiblical and to think that the only biblical sense of the word is the one Protestants maintain. Such notions are the result of a confusion of ideas which badly need clarification.

In the Greek language the word faith can mean either belief in a statement on the authority of another person or belief in a person in the sense of trusting him or even of entrusting oneself to him. But we must recall here what was said earlier about new meanings acquired by Greek expressions on their "baptism" into the service of the Christian religion. In biblical usage, both the senses of the Greek which we have just mentioned are at times employed, but other and more comprehensive meanings are elsewhere intended.

Sometimes the word faith is used to designate the whole objective message to be believed by Christians and at all costs to be kept intact. Paul uses the word in that sense when he speaks of preaching "the faith which he once impugned" (Gal. 1:23), as does also Jude when he urges Christians "to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints" (Jude 3).

Faith as intellectual acceptance

Secondly, the word faith is used at times strictly to denote intellectual acceptance of the doctrines belonging to "the faith," understanding the word in the preceding sense. Thus Paul, after proclaiming the facts and truths and promises of the gospel, said, "So we preach and so you have believed" (1 Cor. 15:11). He declared that his task was to bring "into captivity every understandin g unto the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). In these cases what is obviously involved is intellectual acceptance by faith in the authority of Christ as our divinely-accredited teacher of all that God has revealed. This is that strict sense in which Catholics normally understand the word faith.

In a third class of texts the sense is simply one of confidence or trust, as, for example, where Paul speaks of Abraham as strong in faith and giving glory to God, "most fully knowing that whatsoever he has promised, he is able also to perform" (Rom. 4:21). Or again, where he says of himself, "I know whom I have believed, and I am certain that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him, against that day" (2 Tim. 1:12).

Wide meaning of "saving faith"

Finally, speaking not merely of faith as such, but of "saving faith," Paul uses the word in a very broad and comprehensive sense, not excluding any of the above meanings, but including them all and much else besides. He views the faith that justifies as the complete embracing of the Christian religion in practice, with the whole man engaged, heart and soul, intelligence, will and conscience. This is not merely an indefinite trust or mystic self-surrender. It means primarily the intellectual acceptance of truth by faith in the authority of Christ who declares it. Such belief in Christ gives rise to complete confidence in him, love of him, self-donation to him, and a resultant obedience to his law and devotedness in all good works for his sake.

It is in this last sense that faith is counted unto us for righteousness, and it is the sense which Paul intended when he wrote, "Being justified therefore by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1). He knew quite well that he was not there using the word faith in the strictly literal sense of the word.

Such "saving faith" included trust or confidence in Christ, which arises from the virtue of hope and excludes the extremes of both presumption and despair. It also included a selfgiving to Christ proceeding from love or charity. That Paul knew how to distinguish between these different virtues when occasion demanded it is evident from his great declaration: "Now there remain faith, hope, and charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity" (1 Cor. 13:13).

Catholics are in full agreement with Paul. When they declare faith to be, in the strict and primary sense of the word, an intellectual acceptance of doctrines on the authority of Christ, they do not hold that to be of itself "saving faith." If such faith be not enlivened by trust in Christ, love of him, obedience and self-donation to him, they are quite prepared to describe it as "dead" faith, as does James (Jas. 2:17).

Protestants, at least Evangelicals, on the other hand, do fall into error when they restrict the meaning of faith to trust in Christ and simple acceptance of him as Lord and Savior almost to the exclusion of everything else. To the vast majority of such Protestants, to have faith in Christ has come to mean one thing and one thing only, trust in Christ with an emotional experience of assurance that they are saved, while remaining practically indifferent to sound Christian doctrine in all its many vital.aspects. As Adolf von Harnack, the famed German Protestant scholar, remarked, "Luther set up evangelical faith in place of dogma."

hmmhmm Nov 12, 2009

i would add these passages to roaringlambs.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

and as the wise brother J.C Ryle said "boast not of Christs work for you, unless you can show us the Spirits work in you"

KingJimmy Nov 12, 2009

The following is the classic, historical, and evangelical understanding of imputed righteousness. Do not be confused by NCSCalvinist or Haydock and their false understandings.....

The apostle Paul's idea of "imputed righteousness" is a legal one, whereby in a court of law one is "declared" and "said" to be righteous. This is a common idea in all law courts, going back to antiquity. In this setting, the court looks at you and the evidence of your case, and based off that, declares you righteous or unrighteous based on that evidence. To be "righteous" is a legal term as well, declaring one is "in the right" relationship with the law. To be declared "unrighteous" is to be in a wrong relationship to the law.

What made Paul's notion of justification by faith through imputed righteousness so radical is that Paul says that God declares unrighteous sinners as "righteous" before God, because of Jesus Christ's righteousness, not because of the guilty sinners personal righteousness. As a result of this declaration, God justifies the sinner, and the sinner is now made righteous by means of God's imputed righteousness towards him. He is no longer viewed as unrighteous in the sight of God, rather, he is viewed as righteous and in good standing with the court.

All this is based on faith alone, and not any works whatsoever. Because based on one's works, one is guilty before God as a sinner, and no amount of good works will ever change one's legal guilt for their bad works. All that will change one's stance before God is faith in Christ alone, apart from works, all because of what Jesus did on the cross for us. It's on this basis that God declares you righteous.

I hope that description helps, and you are not confused by the damnable theories espoused elsewhere on here.

*edited*

rookie Nov 12, 2009

Job 36:7 He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings [are they] on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if [they be] bound in fetters, [and] be holden in cords of affliction;
Job 36:9 Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.
Job 36:10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [him], they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.
Job 36:13 ¶ But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.
Job 36:14 They die in youth, and their life [is] among the unclean.

Job 33:26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.

Job 33:28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

.............................................

Jesus is the light of life. His righteousness is restored to those who obey His voice. Search out the Scriptures found in Job 36 above...and then you will know how Christ's righteousness in imputed into the one who is delivered by God from the pit of hell....

In Christ
Jeff

IWantAnguish Nov 12, 2009

Thanks brother Jim.

sermonindex Nov 12, 2009

I hope that description helps, and you are not confused by the damnable theories espoused elsewhere on here.

Is it damnable to believe that a person can "trust" Christ for their salvation and forfeit heaven due to an unrepentant persistence in sin?

Sola Fide in the sense that it is merely imputed and not ALSO actual righteousness (righteous behavior/character/nature) is the view that get's folks damned.

Be not deceived. God is not mocked.

KingJimmy Nov 12, 2009

I'm not totally reformed in thought, nor do I believe in cheap grace, so I believe people can forfeit their salvation by living in sin or turning away in utter apostasy. However, it is damnable to think one is justified on the basis of their performance. It is also damnable to think one can be justified and then have a license to sin.

rookie Nov 13, 2009

As Elihu teaches Job and his friends the ways of God we find the means by which God imputes His righteousness to man...

..................................................................................................
Job 36:7 He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings [are they] on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if [they be] bound in fetters, [and] be holden in cords of affliction;
Job 36:9 Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.
Job 36:10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [him], they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.
Job 36:13 ¶ But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.
Job 36:14 They die in youth, and their life [is] among the unclean.

................................................................................................

Apostle Paul teaches this same precept, how God imputes His righteousness in man in the following verses...........................

Rom 8:12\t¶\tTherefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13\t \tFor if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
...................................................................................................

Elihu in the book of Job and Paul in the book of Romans speak of the same precept...that is the means by which we might know that we are the sons of God....

In Christ
Jeff

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

However, it is damnable to think one is justified on the basis of their performance. It is also damnable to think one can be justified and then have a license to sin.

Let's really clarify what is damnable and anathema:

Canon 1.
If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law,[110] without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.

Canon 2.
If anyone says that divine grace through Christ Jesus is given for this only, that man may be able more easily to live justly and to merit eternal life, as if by free will without grace he is able to do both, though with hardship and difficulty, let him be anathema.

Canon 3.
If anyone says that without the predisposing inspiration of the Holy Ghost[111] and without His help, man can believe, hope, love or be repentant as he ought,[112] so that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him, let him be anathema.

Canon 4.
If anyone says that man's free will moved and aroused by God, by assenting to God's call and action, in no way cooperates toward disposing and preparing itself to obtain the grace of justification, that it cannot refuse its assent if it wishes, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive, let him be anathema.

Canon 5.
If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed, or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

Canon 6.
If anyone says that it is not in man's power to make his ways evil, but that the works that are evil as well as those that are good God produces, not permissively only but also propria et per se, so that the treason of Judas is no less His own proper work than the vocation of St. Paul, let him be anathema.

Canon 7.
If anyone says that all works done before justification, in whatever manner they may be done, are truly sins, or merit the hatred of God; that the more earnestly one strives to dispose himself for grace, the more grievously he sins, let him be anathema.

Canon 8.
If anyone says that the fear of hell,[113] whereby, by grieving for sins, we flee to the mercy of God or abstain from sinning, is a sin or makes sinners worse, let him be anathema.

Canon 9.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,[114] meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

Canon 10.
If anyone says that men are justified without the justice of Christ,[115] whereby Her merited for us, or by that justice are formally just, let him be anathema.

Canon 11.
If anyone says that men are justified either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost,[116] and remains in them, or also that the grace by which we are justified is only the good will of God, let him be anathema.

Canon 12.
If anyone says that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in divine mercy,[117] which remits sins for Christ's sake, or that it is this confidence alone that justifies us, let him be anathema.

Canon 13.
If anyone says that in order to obtain the remission of sins it is necessary for every man to believe with certainty and without any hesitation arising from his own weakness and indisposition that his sins are forgiven him, let him be anathema.

Canon 14.
If anyone says that man is absolved from his sins and justified because he firmly believes that he is absolved and justified,[118] or that no one is truly justified except him who believes himself justified, and that by this faith alone absolution and justification are effected, let him be anathema.

Canon 15.
If anyone says that a man who is born again and justified is bound ex fide to believe that he is certainly in the number of the predestined,[119] let him be anathema.

Canon 16.
If anyone says that he will for certain, with an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance even to the end, unless he shall have learned this by a special revelation,[120] let him be anathema.

Canon 17.
If anyone says that the grace of justification is shared by those only who are predestined to life, but that all others who are called are called indeed but receive not grace, as if they are by divine power predestined to evil, let him be anathema.

Canon 18.
If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even for one that is justified and constituted in grace,[121] impossible to observe, let him be anathema.

Canon 19.
If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the Gospel, that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor forbidden, but free; or that the ten commandments in no way pertain to Christians, let him be anathema.

Canon 20.
If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the Church, but only to believe,[122] as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema.

Canon 21.
If anyone says that Christ Jesus was given by God to men as a redeemer in whom to trust, and not also as a legislator whom to obey, let him be anathema.

Canon 22.
If anyone says that the one justified either can without the special help of God persevere in the justice received,[123] or that with that help he cannot, let him be anathema.

Canon 23.
If anyone says that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace,[124] and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or on the contrary, that he can during his whole life avoid all sins, even those that are venial, except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin, let him be anathema.

Canon 24.
If anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also not increased before God through good works,[125] but that those works are merely the fruits and signs of justification obtained, but not the cause of its increase, let him be anathema.

Canon 25.
If anyone says that in every good work the just man sins at least venially,[126] or, what is more intolerable, mortally, and hence merits eternal punishment, and that he is not damned for this reason only, because God does not impute these works into damnation, let him be anathema.

Canon 26.
If anyone says that the just ought not for the good works done in God[127] to expect and hope for an eternal reward from God through His mercy and the merit of Jesus Christ, if by doing well and by keeping the divine commandments they persevere to the end,[128] let him be anathema.

Canon 27.
If anyone says that there is no mortal sin except that of unbelief,[129] or that grace once received is not lost through any other sin however grievous and enormous except by that of unbelief, let him be anathema.

Canon 28.
If anyone says that with the loss of grace through sin faith is also lost with it, or that the faith which remains is not a true faith, though it is not a living one, or that he who has faith without charity is not a Christian, let him be anathema.

Canon 29.
If anyone says that he who has fallen after baptism cannot by the grace of God rise again,[130] or that he can indeed recover again the lost justice but by faith alone without the sacrament of penance, contrary to what the holy Roman and Universal Church, instructed by Christ the Lord and His Apostles, has hitherto professed, observed and taught, let him be anathema.

Canon 30.
If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world[131] or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened,[132] let him be anathema.

Canon 31.
If anyone says that the one justified sins when he performs good works with a view to an eternal reward,[133] let him be anathema.

Canon 32.
If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.

Canon 33.
If anyone says that the Catholic doctrine of justification as set forth by the holy council in the present decree, derogates in some respect from the glory of God or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ, and does not rather illustrate the truth of our faith and no less the glory of God and of Christ Jesus, let him be anathema.

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

KingJimmy,

I want to know if you agree or disagree with Canon 9

KingJimmy Nov 13, 2009

Canon 9.
If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,[114] meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema.

An intereting read, thank you for sharing it. In regard to your question whether I agree or not with point 9, so far as I understand the language of this canon, I believe I agree with it. I'm not totally Reformed in my theology, and and much more agreeable with those who are Arminian/Wesleyan. And so far as I understand your question, contrary to my Reformed brethren, I agree with the the idea of free will. But I also believe in the Wesleyan notion of prevenient grace that condtions us so as to be able to respond to the Lord when the seed of the supernatural faith that comes through the proclaimed word of God, so as to bring about saving grace for when we do respond to the good news of Jesus Christ.

While sympathetic to the view, I don't buy into the Reformed view of monogerism, which teaches we are born again before we exercise saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. In my opinion, to believe such undermines the doctrine that we are indeed justified by faith. If monogerism, so far as I have understood it is true, then we are not truly justified by faith, but rather, we are justified because God caused us to be born again first, and only then, gave us faith. In my opinion, such faith isn't really saving faith, but rather, just an ingredient they've added out of exegetical necessity. Perhaps I have misunderstood their point of view, but I'm pretty sure I have grasped their take on things sufficiently.

rookie Nov 13, 2009

I agree with the the idea of free will. But I also believe in the Wesleyan notion of prevenient grace that condtions us so as to be able to respond to the Lord when the seed of the supernatural faith that comes through the proclaimed word of God, so as to bring about saving grace for when we do respond to the good news of Jesus Christ.

This position is in alignment with what Elihu teaches in Job 33........................

Job 33:14 For God may speak in one way, or in another, [Yet man] does not perceive it.
Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, When deep sleep falls upon men, While slumbering on their beds,
Job 33:16 Then He opens the ears of men, And seals their instruction.
Job 33:17 In order to turn man [from his] deed, And conceal pride from man,
Job 33:18 He keeps back his soul from the Pit, And his life from perishing by the sword.
Job 33:19 "[Man] is also chastened with pain on his bed, And with strong [pain] in many of his bones,
Job 33:20 So that his life abhors bread, And his soul succulent food.
Job 33:21 His flesh wastes away from sight, And his bones stick out [which once] were not seen.
Job 33:22 Yes, his soul draws near the Pit, And his life to the executioners.
Job 33:23 "If there is a messenger for him, A mediator, one among a thousand, To show man His uprightness,
Job 33:24 Then He is gracious to him, and says, 'Deliver him from going down to the Pit; I have found a ransom';
Job 33:25 His flesh shall be young like a child's, He shall return to the days of his youth.
Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.
Job 33:27 Then he looks at men and says, 'I have sinned, and perverted [what was] right, And it did not profit me.'
Job 33:28 He will redeem his [fn] soul from going down to the Pit, And his life shall see the light.
Job 33:29 "Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,
Job 33:30 To bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life."
.................................................

All men are given "prevenient grace" and all men are without excuse....

In Christ
Jeff

TaylorOtwell Nov 13, 2009

If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone,[114] meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification

Disagree.

Works are a display saving faith to be genuine, and in that sense are we "justified by our works"; however, our Lord makes clear we are justified by believing in the one the Father has sent (John 6). Abraham was justified because "he believed God", his later works demonstrated that his faith was in fact genuine.

Works have nothing to do with the ~~[b]~~basis[/b] of our justification.

TaylorOtwell Nov 13, 2009

Haydock,

Does the Roman church stick by its conclusions which received Papal sanction at the Council of Orange in 529?

CANON 5. If anyone says that not only the increase of faith but also its beginning and the very desire for faith, by which we believe in Him who justifies the ungodly and comes to the regeneration of holy baptism -- if anyone says that this belongs to us by nature and not by a gift of grace, that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit amending our will and turning it from unbelief to faith and from godlessness to godliness, it is proof that he is opposed to the teaching of the Apostles, for blessed Paul says, "And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6). And again, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8). For those who state that the faith by which we believe in God is natural make all who are separated from the Church of Christ by definition in some measure believers.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, "What have you that you did not receive?" (1 Cor. 4:7), and, "But by the grace of God I am what I am" (1 Cor. 15:10).

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

An intereting read, thank you for sharing it.

Your welcome. I posted it on purpose without telling you the church council this came from: The Council of Trent. This council defined in no uncertain terms the nature of our justification. It exposed the errors of Luther and Calvin once and for all. It especially exposed their notion of Sola Fide. I don't think you or some other protestants here would agree with Luther's view of Sola Fide either. Luther was indeed a heretic that deserved to be excommunicated for his unbiblical doctrine.

In regard to your question whether I agree or not with point 9, so far as I understand the language of this canon, I believe I agree with it.

Glad to hear it. So in the Lutheran understanding, you are not Sola Fide in theology. Praise God for that.

But I also believe in the Wesleyan notion of prevenient grace that condtions us so as to be able to respond to the Lord when the seed of the supernatural faith that comes through the proclaimed word of God, so as to bring about saving grace for when we do respond to the good news of Jesus Christ.

Remember that Wesley was an Anglican. So he was more Catholic in many more areas than other Protestants.

I wonder if these "reformers" stayed humble and waited for the Church to correct the errors of Tetzel if they would have left.

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

Disagree. Works are a display saving faith to be genuine, and in that sense are we "justified by our works"

See, this is rightly called "mental gymnastics". It denies the clear sense of one Scripture to support a bias in interpretation made of another.

Either we are justified by works or we aren't. (Jas. 2:24)

One reading of Rom. 1 and 2 makes us understand that the works of the law are very much making the context of the passage. On reading of Jas. 1 and 2 makes it obvious that the royal law of liberty and love are the works being spoken of. Do you disagree with this?

Works have nothing to do with the basis of our justification.

A man is justified BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.

Yes, there is grace given to do the works IN GOD. But salvation still must be cooperated with and if it is not, death is the result.

Sola Fide in the Lutheran/Calvinistic sense IS heresy...and grave heresy at that.

How many are in hell today because of it? Only eternity will tell us.

TaylorOtwell Nov 13, 2009

Haydock,

~~[b]~~Council of Orange[/b]

CANON 1. If anyone denies that it is the whole man, that is, both body and soul, that was "changed for the worse" through the offense of Adam's sin, but believes that the freedom of the soul remains unimpaired and that only the body is subject to corruption, he is deceived by the error of Pelagius and contradicts the scripture which says, "The soul that sins shall die" (Ezek. 18:20); and, "Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are the slaves of the one whom you obey?" (Rom. 6:16); and, "For whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved" (2 Pet. 2:19).

CANON 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him "unless the Father who sent me draws him" (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, "No one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:3).

CANON 13. Concerning the restoration of free will. ~~[b]~~The freedom of will that was destroyed[/b] in the first man can be restored only by the grace of baptism, for what is lost can be returned only by the one who was able to give it. Hence the Truth itself declares: "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed" (John 8:36).

~~[b]~~Council of Trent[/b]

CANON 5. ~~[b]~~If anyone says that after the sin of Adam man's free will was lost and destroyed[/b], or that it is a thing only in name, indeed a name without a reality, a fiction introduced into the Church by Satan, let him be anathema.

---------------------

Do you see these statements as being in agreement?

TaylorOtwell Nov 13, 2009

Haydock,

Please visit this article: http://www.apuritansmind.com/Justification/PembleWilliamReconcilingPaulAndJames.htm

IWantAnguish Nov 13, 2009

“Satan, the God of all dissension, stirreth up daily new sects, and last of all, which of all other I should never have foreseen or once suspected, he has raised up a sect such as teach...that men
should not be terrified by the Law, but gently exhorted by the preaching of the grace of Christ.”

Martin Luther

Martin Luther hardly championed a position of faith without works. But insisted that genuine faith would no doubt yield a fruitful life of good works demonstrating the faith of the individual.

sermonindex Nov 13, 2009

TaylorOtwell,

This is a classic example of opponents of the Church not understanding what the Church claims to believe. The council of Orange was a local council and as such is not protected by infalliblity like Trent.

Local councils get things wrong all the time. The Council of Orange was not an ecumenical council, and hence does not have the same protection from error as a council like Trent does.

That being said, much is lost in translation, and comparing the Latin might make things more apparent. It is also not clear from the quote if complete free of the will is intended, or if Orange might simply be referring to the inclination to sin or some other such thing. Given the influence of St. Augustine's writings in the area, it would be hard to imagine the Council of Orange so explicitly disagreeing with him on such a major issue especially since the role of grace, merit, and free will was Augustine's pre-eminent topic (hence he is known as the Doctor of Grace). I suppose anything is possible though.

TaylorOtwell Nov 13, 2009

haydock wrote:
Disagree. Works are a display saving faith to be genuine, and in that sense are we "justified by our works"
See, this is rightly called "mental gymnastics". It denies the clear sense of one Scripture to support a bias in interpretation made of another.
Either we are justified by works or we aren't. (Jas. 2:24)
One reading of Rom. 1 and 2 makes us understand that the works of the law are very much making the context of the passage. On reading of Jas. 1 and 2 makes it obvious that the royal law of liberty and love are the works being spoken of. Do you disagree with this?

Works have nothing to do with the basis of our justification.
A man is justified BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.
Yes, there is grace given to do the works IN GOD. But salvation still must be cooperated with and if it is not, death is the result.
Sola Fide in the Lutheran/Calvinistic sense IS heresy...and grave heresy at that.
How many are in hell today because of it? Only eternity will tell us.

~~[i]~~"When, therefore, the Sophists set up James against Paul, they go astray through the ambiguous meaning of a term. When Paul says that we are justified by faith, he means no other thing than that by faith we are counted righteous before God. But James has quite another thing in view, even to shew that he who professes that he has faith, must prove the reality of his faith by his works…we must take notice of the two-fold meaning of the word justified. Paul means by it the gratuitous imputation of righteousness before the tribunal of god; and James, the manifestation of righteousness by the conduct, and that before men, as we may gather from the preceding works, “Shew to me they faith,” etc. In this sense we fully allow that man is justified by works, as when anyone says that a man is enriched by the purchase of a large and valuable estate, because his riches, before hid, shut up in a chest, were thus made known..." -- Calvin[/i]

So that is Calvin’s view. Let’s look a bit closer at the exegesis of the passage. Here are some reasons why Calvin is right and all the naysayers are wrong. 1. The word itself can mean either to declare righteous (this is the normal meaning in Paul), or to show someone to be righteous (as it says “Wisdom is justified by her children”). The second sense is not always in our minds, but wisdom hardly needs the imputed righteousness of Christ. Rather, wisdom is shown to be right by the results in her children. We must not automatically assume one meaning or the other in James. Rather, we must look for contextual clues, and also the analogy of faith. 2. Prima facie evidence is given in verse 18 (as Calvin notes) that the second meaning of “justify” is the meaning that James uses here. In verse 18, it is clear that the point is whether a particular faith is true or not, and how a person might be able to show the true state of his faith. James answers that a true faith is shown by its works. 3. Further evidence is given for this view in verse 21. This is a simple matter of timing. Genesis 22 (Abraham’s near-sacrifice of Isaac) comes after Genesis 15:6. Abraham was justified first by faith in Genesis 15:6, and then his faith showed itself to be genuine in Genesis 22. We will come back to the quotation of Genesis 15:6 in James 2:23 in a moment.

Now, we must deal with the objections to this position. They are stated fairly clearly in Norman Shepherd’s new book The Way of Righteousness: Justification Beginning With James. The first line of reasoning goes like this: “justify” in verse 24 is parallel to “save” in verse 14. The word “save” in verse 14 means “salvation from condemnation when we stand before the Lord God to be judged” (p. 21). Therefore, the justification of verse 24 answers the question of salvation in verse 14 (ibid). The answer to this is that it is not so clear what “save” means in verse 14. Salvation in the Bible is used in more than one way. Salvation can be used of the initial time-point of faith, but it can also be used of the entire Christian life, which would include everything from election to glorification. It is evident that the question at the end of verse 14 expects a negative answer: “Surely it is impossible, isn’t it, that such a works-devoid faith could save him?” In effect, this asks the question: can there be a kind of faith that believes but does not do? And can such a faith be the kind of faith that salvation as a whole is talking about? The scope of the passage cannot be limited to the initial time-point of faith, because James himself says that his faith (implied as already existing) is going to be shown by his works (verse 18). This is parallel to the question of Abraham, whose already existing faith was shown to be genuine by his offering up of Isaac.

The second objection raised to our position is this: 2. James does not talk about faith being justified, but persons being justified (p. 24). It is important to note that Shepherd does not deny that verse 18 has to do with faith being shown to be genuine. Rather, his point is that justification language is not present in verse 18. To this I answer this way: the two meanings correspond to two aspects of a person’s justification. A person is justified forensically (in the Pauline sense of judicial declaration), but then a person is also justified evidentially when his faith is shown to be genuine. Manton put it well when he said that the Jamesian sense of evidentiary justification shows a person to be unhypocritical. You can say a person is unhypocritical or that his faith is unhypocritical, it all comes to the same thing. In other words, Shepherd is mincing words here.

The third objection to our position is stated this way: the word “justify” cannot ever be said to mean “show to be justified” even if it can mean “show to be righteous” (p. 24). However, this objection is closely tied to the previous objection: if a person can be shown to be genuine and unhypocritical, then his justification is also shown to be genuine. The latter idea may be an implication of the former, but a firm implication it is. As a man thinks, so he is. We cannot drive such a large wedge between a person and his faith.

Thirdly, he objects that arguing for the demonstrative sense in James as a way of reconciling James and Paul “is a theological argument rather than an exegetical argument” (p. 24). I must ask why this would be a problem. Are we not required to compare Scripture with Scripture? Is exegesis limited to the immediate context, or does it ultimately extend to the entire Bible? I would strongly argue for the latter. Therefore we MUST seek to reconcile James and Paul.

His fourth main argument is that the broader context of James favors the view that James has in mind the final judgment and a soteric justification on that day (p. 25). But there are two things at work here. First of all, there is a strong strand of Reformed teaching that argues that the final fulfillment of evidentiary proof of justification will happen on the Final Day: believers will be shown before the whole world to have had genuine justifying faith. And the works of believers will be trotted out as the evidence for this claim. This is not soteric. Chapter 5:9 does not prove his point. His point is that we need to be bearing fruit in keeping with a genuine faith. Grumbling is not in keeping with said faith. Therefore, if we are grumbling, we need to be awakened to the fact that we might not have a genuine faith. Besides, the word is not “condemned” in that verse, but “judged.” All our works will in fact be judged, but they might be burned up, as it says in 1 Corinthians 3, if they be hay, straw, or stubble. The fact that it says “you be judged” does not affect this exegesis in the slightest, since it is a metonymy, with the person standing in for the works. He has not proven his point, therefore. I conclude that since all the arguments against the position have an answer, that therefore we should follow Calvin, and argue that “justify” has a demonstrative sense in James, and not a declaritive.

Source: http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2009/06/16/justification-in-james/

KingJimmy Nov 14, 2009

Your welcome. I posted it on purpose without telling you the church council this came from: The Council of Trent.

Actually, I suspected it was probably the council of Trent. I've been a student of church history. I never read the council of Trent's primary documents firsthand, just summaries of it's content. When one read's it's statements, it's as declared in these canons, it's pretty obvious who they are countering.

I don't think you or some other protestants here would agree with Luther's view of Sola Fide either.

I'm not personally a big fan of Martin Luther. He was a smart guy, and I greatly appreciate his contributions to theology, and sharing with all the world the things God did indeed showed him. He can be admired for many things, and even though I disagree with him on many things, I do pause, weigh, and consider anything he said on almost any subject when I run across a quote by him. But to be frank, he was wrong about many things.

Granted, he lived in a very dark period of time, and many of his errors can be traced to the darkness which the devil pulled over the eyes of many through Rome. But, I appreciate his contribution, work, and labor just the same. I'd rather personally identify myself with the Anabaptist than with Luther though. Of course, I don't buy into everything they said either. But, they were willing to take many things a step further than Luther was willing to.

rookie Nov 16, 2009

I agree with the the idea of free will. But I also believe in the Wesleyan notion of prevenient grace that condtions us so as to be able to respond to the Lord when the seed of the supernatural faith that comes through the proclaimed word of God, so as to bring about saving grace for when we do respond to the good news of Jesus Christ.

Here is another example of God's call, His prevenient grace found in Scripture....................................................................

Mat 18:10\t"Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

.............................................................................................

God assigns angels to watch over the children.....

Many are called but few are chosen...

In Christ
Jeff

twayneb Nov 16, 2009

Does this refer to the perfect life He lived on this earth as a man? Which include all the miracles, love towards unbelievers, love towards disciples, sorrow for the unrepentant, etc. etc. Or does it refer to His essential qualities and complete divine character and holy righteousness as the eternal God who existed outside of time? Or are both of these mingled through the incarnation of the Son of God?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I am not sure the answer to your question is a) or b). Imputed righteousness is ascribed to or credited to us vicariously through the atoning work of Jesus Christ. It is our position or condition in God's sight because of what Christ has done. ie., I have no righteousness of my own. I have only the righteousness that has been imputed to me. Justification is a term used to describe our standing before God due to what Christ has done. We are justified as we stand before God just as an innocent man would be justified as he stood before a judge at a trial.

Righteousness and justification are not terms used to describe our putting on of the actions, attributes, or character traits of Christ. Some have mistakenly assumed that if they can somehow act more like Christ (much like your choice A) or if I can somehow come to be more like Christ (much like your choice B), then I can somehow become righteous and be accepted in God's sight. this is the exact opposite of imputed righteousness which places us in right standing in God's sight based entirely on our having received the atoning work of salvation in our spirits through faith in Christ alone, and not through any works of our own.

KingJimmy Nov 16, 2009

For those of you who might be interested, I wrote a full blown essay in the issue of justification, available here on SI in the "Justification By Faith" thread: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=31428&forum=36

Leo_Grace Nov 16, 2009

haydock said:

Either we are justified by works or we aren't. (Jas. 2:24)
.
.
A man is justified BY WORKS and NOT BY FAITH ALONE.
.
.
Sola Fide in the Lutheran/Calvinistic sense IS heresy...and grave heresy at that.

WARNING! THIS IS FALSE TEACHING FROM THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, WHICH CREATES ITS OWN DOCTRINES OUTSIDE OF SCRIPTURE.

Biblical teaching is clear that salvation is NOT BY WORKS.

~~[i]~~Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— ~~[b]~~not by works, so that no one can boast[/b].[/i]

Any teaching on salvation that is not Sola Fide is heresy.

The verse in Jas 2:24 should never be taken out of context. James was teaching that true faith will be evident through action. He said anyone that claims to have faith but who does not live out that faith through action in his life has a "dead faith", or has no faith at all. He is saying that works (actions) are important because they prove that one's faith is true, not because they are essential to our salvation.

~~[i]~~Jas 2:14-17 ~~[b]~~What good is it, my brothers,if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him[/b]? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? ~~[b]~~In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead[/b].[/i]

It is in this context of emphasizing the importance of a life-changing, action-oriented, "proven-by-works" faith that James said:

~~[i]~~Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.[/i]

Verse 24 supports the lesson in Verses 14 to 17. It cannot stand alone because then it appears to contradict Eph 2:8, and ~~[b]~~Scripture cannot contradict itself[/b].

This idea of true saving faith being proven by one's actions is consistent with all the other teachings of Christ. The works are merely proof of true faith, and not the basis for salvation.

~~[u]~~Regarding Justification, the Bible and Roman Catholic doctrine have different views[/u]:

Bible (The Word of God): The legal declaration of Christ's righteousness reckoned to the believer at the point of faith, solely as an act of God's mercy.

Catholicism (Not from God): Spiritual rebirth and the lifelong process of sanctification which begins at the point of the sacrament of baptism.

THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS NOT A CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR IT DOES NOT ABIDE SOLELY BY THE TEACHINGS OF GOD IN SCRIPTURE. THE BIBLE SAYS SO.

~~[i]~~1Jn 2:3-4 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[/i]

rookie Nov 17, 2009

Here in Scripture we are given another example of what it means to have Christ's righteousness imputed to those who believe...

Rev 3:21\t \tTo him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

In the way that Jesus overcame, we who say we believe must also overcome. By what means did Jesus overcome?

In Christ
Jeff

IWantAnguish Nov 17, 2009

He overcame through emptying of Himself, submission to the will of the Father, through power of the Holy Spirit.

rookie Nov 17, 2009

He overcame through emptying of Himself, submission to the will of the Father, through power of the Holy Spirit.

Yes...so likewise He calls us to do the same.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

So therefore the way we too must learn to walk, according to the Spirit, will be worked in those who....

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

...............................................

A man who does not put to death the deeds of the body through obedience to the Holy Spirit will not learn the righteousness that comes for Christ alone...

Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions-- That they have acted defiantly.

Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

Job 36:12 But if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge. [fn]

Job 36:13 "But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath; They do not cry for help when He binds them.

Job 36:14 They die in youth, And their life [ends] among the perverted persons. [fn]

Listen to the promise.....

Job 33:26 He shall pray to God, and He will delight in him, He shall see His face with joy, For He restores to man His righteousness.

Job 33:28 He will redeem his [fn] soul from going down to the Pit, And his life shall see the light.

God promises those who hear and do; these will see His face with joy because He restores to man His righteousness.

In Christ
Jeff

NSCalvinist Nov 17, 2009

Why isn't God's forgiveness through the atonement enough for our justification? Aren't we justified by his blood? Aren't we justified by grace?

To say that the atonement of Christ is not enough, but we must also have the imputed works of the law to be justified, would be contrary to justification by grace apart from the works of the law. We do not need imputed works of the law to be justified. That is what grace and mercy is all about.

We are justified by Christ's obedience in making an atonement, but not by Christ's obedience to the law. His obedience was necessary for him to quality to make an atonement, but we are justified by God's mercy through the atonement, not by His works of the law.

Justification is by grace through faith, not at all by the works of the law.

The law does not declare us to be innocent (justification by works of the law). God pardons us through the atonement (justification by grace, by His blood).

Another problem I have seen is that many who teach the imputed works of the law also deny God's omniscience. Some have supposed that when God looks upon a Christian who is sinning that God doesn’t see the Christian sinning but “see’s the righteousness of Christ” instead. But God clearly saw the bad works of the Christians in Revelations (Rev 2:2, 2:9; 2:13; 2:19; 3:1; 3:8; 3:15), not “the righteousness of Christ”. Imputed righteousness is not some scheme that fools or blinds God so that He no longer knows reality as it is, or no longer see’s individuals as they are. That would mean God is no longer omniscient. Whenever anyone is in sin, our omniscient God sees it clearly and perfectly (Prov. 15:3; Eze. 8:12; 9:9; Jer. 32:19; Mal. 2:17; Heb. 4:13).

rookie Nov 18, 2009

To say that the atonement of Christ is not enough, but we must also have the imputed works of the law to be justified, would be contrary to justification by grace apart from the works of the law. We do not need imputed works of the law to be justified. That is what grace and mercy is all about.

Paul is not talking about the works of the law when he writes...

Rom 8:12\tTherefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13\tFor if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14\tFor as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Rather Paul clearly teaches this about the power of Christ's blood that was shed so that we might be reconciled to the Father...

Rom 5:8\tBut God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9\tMuch more then, having now been justified by His blood, ....
Rom 5:10\tFor if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled,...

So in the above verses we see that Christ shed blood reconciles us to the Father. In verses 9 and 10, I purposely stopped in the middle of each verse so that one might clearly distinguish between justification/reconciliation and what Paul now points to as the means by which we are saved from God's wrath...

Second part of verse...Rom 5:9
"... we shall be saved from wrath through Him."

Second part of verse ..Rom 5:10
"...much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Do you see that Paul teaches that we are "saved" by "His life."?

This is the "imputed righteousness of Christ."

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Nov 20, 2009

The imputed righteousness of Christ is spoken of in this Scripture....

1Cr 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,

1Cr 1:5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,

1Cr 1:6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,

1Cr 1:7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Cr 1:8 who will also confirm you to the end, [that you may be] blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Cr 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
.................................................

Paul states that "the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you," (that is the Corinthian church). Paul testifies that this local church has been given all things concerning Christ. This statement confirms that all things pretaining to Christ were freely given to all the believers in the Corinthian church. Yet Paul writes to correct and exhort this church, that they are not walking in the ways of Christ.
...............................................

1Cr 1:10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you, but [that] you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
.................................................

Paul then points to the fact that many are seeking to follow men and that because to this they are experiencing division and sin amongst themselves.

Paul then identifies where many in the Corinthian church have fallen short of the call of Christ in their lives............

1Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

1Cr 3:2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able;

1Cr 3:3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?

.................................................

Can one know the "righteousness of Christ" if one has not learned the ways of the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Nov 21, 2009

Can one know the "righteousness of Christ" if one has not learned the ways of the Spirit?

Let us continue with Paul's exhortation.............

1Cr 3:4\tFor when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not carnal?

1Cr 3:5\tWho then is Paul, and who [is] Apollos, but ministers through whom you believed, as the Lord gave to each one?

1Cr 3:6\tI planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.

1Cr 3:7\tSo then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.
...................................................................................................

Paul declares that those who seek only to follow the words of men, the actions of men, these will not grow in the righteousness that is found in Christ. Those who find their identity in the teachings and testimony of other believers cannot grow in the righteousness that is only found in the Life of Christ. These who live this type of Christianity will continue to experience division and strife amongst themselves. As it was in Paul's day, so it is today. The strife and division that permeates many of the threads on SI today can be attributed to the precept which Paul taught 1900 years ago.

Spiritual precepts are established by God and not man. Man cannot overcome, cannot release himself from this precept by his own strength. Where does Paul point these babes in Christ?
..................................................................................................

1Cr 3:7\tSo then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

.................................................................................................

Paul has stated that the Corinthian church has received all things that are found in Christ. Paul and Apollos can only point to Christ, but it is "God who gives the increase." The nature of the "increase" is found only in the power of the Holy Spirit.
...............................................................................................

1Cr 3:11\tFor no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

..............................................................................................

These babes in Christ have not yet found the freedom from their earthly affections.

In Christ
Jeff

NSCalvinist Nov 21, 2009

I have still yet to see any Scripture that explicitly says "the righteousness of Christ are imputed to the believer". All I have seen is eisegesis and conjecture. Exegetically the doctrine of the imputed righteousness of Christ cannot be shown or proven.

I agree with John Wesley that "It is nowhere stated in Scripture that Christ's personal righteousness is imputed to us. Not a text can be found which contains any enunciation of the doctrine."

Asbury Lowrey was a Wesleyan who said, “This passage [Rom. 4:5-8] deserves special attention, as it explains all those text that seem to favor, and have been construed to support the theory of the imputation of Christ’s active and passive righteousness to the sinner. Here it is manifest that justification, imputation of righteousness, forgiving iniquities, covering sins, and the non-imputation of sin, are phrases substantially of the same import, and decide positively that the Scripture view of the great doctrine under consideration, is an actual deliverance from the guilt and penalty of sin: from which it follows, that the phrases so often occurring in the writings of Paul – the righteousness of God and of Christ – must mean God’s righteous method of justifying the ungodly, through the atonement and by the instrumentality of faith – a method that upholds the rectitude of the Divine character, at the same time that it offers a full and free pardon to the sinner.”

I still have to agree with the New School Calvinists (New England Theology) on this one:

Exegetically imputed righteousness is synonymous with pardon and acceptance. King David and the Apostle Paul described in detail what imputed righteousness is. Their description is the clearest presentation of imputed righteousness in the Scripture. According to these inspired writings, imputed righteousness consists in being considered righteous, having your transgressions forgiven, having your sins covered, and as not having your iniquities imputed or accounted against you (Ps. 31:1-2; Rom. 4:7-8). In other words, to be imputed righteous is when God pardons our crimes, not giving us the governmental treatment that we deserve, but rather treating us as if we were righteous, that is, giving us the treatment of law abiding citizens. God considers us righteous by treating us as righteous.

The New Testament word “logizomai” is translated as “think” (2 Cor. 3:5; 10:2; 10:7; 10:11; 12:6; Phi. 4:8), as “imputed” (Rom. 4:11; 4:22-24; Jam. 2:23), as “counted” (Rom. 2:26; 4:3; 4:5; 9:8), as “reckoned” (Lk. 22:37; Rom. 4:4; 4:9-10), as “accounted” (Rom. 8:36; Gal. 3:6), as “reckon” (Rom. 6:11; 8:18), as “suppose” (2 Cor. 11:5; 1 Pet. 5:12), as “account” (1 Cor. 4:1), as “accounting” (Heb. 11:19), as “conclude” (Rom. 3:28), as “count” (Phi. 3:13), as “esteemeth” (Rom. 14:14), as “impute” (Rom. 4:8), as “imputeth” (Rom. 4:6), as “imputing” (2 Cor. 5:19), as “laid” (2 Tim. 4:16), as “numbered” (Mk. 15:28), as “reasoned” (Mk. 11:31), as “thinkest” (Rom. 2:3), as “thinketh” (1 Cor. 13:5), and as “thought” (1 Cor. 13:11). When an individual is imputed righteous, it simply means that their sins are forgiven and they are thought of as righteous, esteemed as righteous, counted as righteous, reckoned as righteous, or considered as righteous. When a person is imputed as righteous they are treated as if they were righteous, treated as if they were never unrighteous, being treated as law abiding citizens.

The Old Testament equivalent word is “chashab” and it is translated as “counted” (Gen. 15:5-6; 31:15; Lev. 25:31; Num. 18:30; Jos. 13:3; Neh. 13:13; Job 18:3; 41:29; Ps. 44:22; 88:4; 106:31; Prov. 17:28; 27:14; Isa. 5:28; 40:15; 20:17; Hos. 8:12), as “thought” (Gen. 38:15; 50:20; 1Sam. 1:13; 18:25; 2 Sam. 14:13; Neh. 6:2; Ps. 73:16; 119:59; Jer. 18:8; Mal. 3:16), as “think” (Neh. 6:6; Job 41:32; Isa. 10:7; Jer. 23:27; 29:11; Eze. 38:10), as “accounted” (Deut. 2:10-11; 2:20; 1 Kin. 10:21; 2 Chro. 9:20; Isa. 2:22), as “imagine” (Job 6:26; Ps. 140:2; Hos. 7:15; Zec. 7:9-10), as “esteemed” (Isa. 29:16-17; Isa. 53:3; Lam. 4:2), as “reckoned” (Num. 18:27; 23:9; 2 Sam. 4:2; 2 Kin. 12:15), as “count” (Lev. 25:27; 25:52; Job 19:15), as “reckon” (Lev. 25:50; 27:18; 27:23), as “counteth” (Job 19:11; 33:10), as “imagined” (Ps. 10:2; Ps. 21:11), as “imputed” (Lev. 7:18; 17:4), as “account” (Ps. 144:3), as “considered” (Ps. 77:5), as “esteem” (Isa. 53:4), as “esteemeth” (Job 41:27), as “imagineth” (Nah. 1:11), as “impute” (2 Sam. 19:19), as “imputeth” (Ps. 32:2), as “reckoning” (2 Kin. 22:7), as “regard” (Isa. 13:17), as “regardeth” (Isa. 33:8), as “thinkest” (Job 35:2), and as “thinketh” (Psa. 40:17). To be imputed righteous is to be counted as righteous, to be thought of as righteous, to be esteemed as righteous, to be reckoned as righteous, to be considered as righteous, to be regarded as righteous, etc.

The word “imputed” does not mean transferred. It is a theological error to say that “the righteousness of Christ is transferred to our account”. If imputed means transferred, when God imputed an uncircumcised individual as circumcised (Rom. 2:26), it means that someone else’s circumcision is transferred to them! The obvious meaning is that they are simply considered circumcised, reckoned as circumcised, or thought of as circumcised, but not that someone else loses their circumcision so that it could be transferred to another. Some have represented the doctrine of the imputed righteousness “of Christ” as the Gospel itself. But if this is the Gospel, neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever preached it! The Scriptures abundantly talk about imputed righteousness, but it never talks about the imputed righteousness “of Christ”. Rather, the truth is that we have imputed righteousness through Christ!

When a person is imputed righteous God considers them righteous and governmentally treats them as righteous. It is not that the righteousness of Christ is transferred to them. To say that we need the perfect obedience that Christ rendered to the law to be transferred to our account in order to be justified is to say that we are in fact justified by the works of the law. Christ needed to perfectly obey the law in order to be a spotless sacrifice and qualify as a sin offering (Exo. 12:5; 2 Cor. 5:21; Php. 2:8), but justification is by Christ’s blood (Rom. 5:9) and by faith (Rom. 3:28; 5:1; Gal 3:24), but not at all by the works of the law (Acts 13:39; Rom. 3:20; 3:28; Gal. 2:16; 3:11; 5:4). Christ was under obligation to obey the law of love for Himself (Matt. 5:17; Gal. 4:4), just as God is under obligation to His own conscience (Gen. 3:22; 18:25; Job 34:10, 12), so Christ’s obedience to the law cannot be a work of supererogation, there can be no “extra” obedience to be transferred to another. So if Christ was under obligation to the law, His obedience to the law cannot be transferred to another. And if Christ was not under obligation to the law, there would be no obedience to be transferred. It was not His obedience to the law, but His suffering on the cross, which is credited to us. He suffered and died for us and His suffering was a work of supererogation since He was not obligated to do it. That is the means of justification.

Some have supposed that when God looks upon a Christian who is sinning that God doesn’t see the Christian sinning but “see’s the righteousness of Christ” instead. But God clearly saw the bad works of the Christians in Revelations (Rev 2:2, 2:9; 2:13; 2:19; 3:1; 3:8; 3:15), not “the righteousness of Christ”. Imputed righteousness is not some scheme that fools or blinds God so that He no longer knows reality as it is, or no longer see’s individuals as they are. That would mean God is no longer omniscient. Whenever anyone is in sin, our omniscient God sees it clearly and perfectly (Prov. 15:3; Eze. 8:12; 9:9; Jer. 32:19; Mal. 2:17; Heb. 4:13).

rookie Nov 21, 2009

I still have to agree with the New School Calvinists (New England Theology) on this one:

I agree with John Wesley

Asbury Lowrey was a Wesleyan who said,

Thus you say this....

Exegetically the doctrine of the imputed righteousness of Christ cannot be shown or proven.

What does this precept of "His life" found in Scripture mean to you?

Rom 5:10 ".... we shall be saved by His life."

Rom 5:2 "... even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Combine the above thought with the one below.....

Job 33:29\t"Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,

Job 33:30\tTo bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

What is the "light of life" and how does this 'life" bring us "to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." What does it mean to be "enlightened with the light of life"?

What has our Lord shown you personally?

In Christ
Jeff

NSCalvinist Nov 21, 2009

What does this precept of "His life" found in Scripture mean to you?
Rom 5:10 ".... we shall be saved by His life."

"For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God ~~[u]~~by the death of his Son[/u], much more, ~~[u]~~being reconciled[/u], we ~~[u]~~shall be[/u] saved by his life." Rom. 5:10

We are not reconciled to God by the life of Christ. We are reconciled to God by the death of Christ. But now that we are reconciled (present tense), we shall be saved (future tense) because He lives. After the atonement came the resurrection and his ministry of intersession.

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever ~~[u]~~liveth[/u] to make intercession for them." Heb. 7:25

Christ is now alive, He is resurrected, and He is our Spiritual Priest who makes intersession for us. Now that Christ is alive, He lives as our High Priest in the Heavenly tabernacle (Heb. 8:1-5).

We were reconciled by His death. Now after being reconciled by His death, we are saved by His resurrected life (Rom. 5:10).

It is not proper exegesis to read "the imputed righteousness of Christ" into "we shall be saved by His life".

Again, we do not need the imputed works of the law in order to be justified. We simply need the atonement of Christ in order to be forgiven when we repent and believe. The grace and mercy of God, and the atonement of Christ, is sufficient for our justification apart from imputed works of the law.

What has our Lord shown you personally?

There is no better description of true biblical imputed righteousness than Rom. 4:5-8 which is Paul quoting King David.

rookie Nov 23, 2009

We are not reconciled to God by the life of Christ. We are reconciled to God by the death of Christ. But now that we are reconciled (present tense), we shall be saved (future tense) because He lives.

According to what Paul writes, yes we are (only) reconciled to God by Christ's death on the cross. And then you changed the meaning of the end of the verse to say ............

we shall be saved (future tense) because He lives.

The Scripture actually says.........

Romans 5:10 "... we shall be saved by His life.

While I do understand what you are trying to say, in that, Jesus is our High Priest and that He live to make intercession for those who believe....according to the Scripture you posted.....

"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them." Heb. 7:25

There is much more to the what Paul is pointing to in that "we are saved by His life." Jesus spoke these words to Thomas
..............................................................................................

Jhn 14:6\tJesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
..............................................................................................

Jesus refers to Himself as I am "...the life."

Have you ever thought about the Scripture you pointed to, what is the extent of or the nature of the "intercession"?

Heb. 7:25 "...seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."

When Jesus prays to the Father, is His prayers only to ask forgiveness and mercy from the Father for us? Or does this intercession also include the power of the Holy Spirit to deliver us from that which binds us to this world?

In Christ
Jeff

elected Nov 23, 2009

I am no much fan of theological terms not found in the bible. We are justified and declared righteuos because of the imputed righteousnes on us when we believed Jesus, we were clothed with his righteouness. Our own righteouness was filthy regs.

There are two heresies popular today, one is antinomianism and the other is legalism, both are damnable. Antinomiansm says, no matter what you do if you only believe you are eternaly saved, it gives people a false assurance of salvation, it abuses the grace of God and its a license to sin under the pretext that we are not under law but grace. Whoever holds this view is in clear contradiction to the plain word of God that says that without holiness no one shall see the Lord.

This view completly misrepresents the classical doctrine of justification by faith taught by apostle Paul and rediscovered by Luther, which is the doctrine that every major historical protestant denomination have in common.

As far as legalism, the NT teaching makes it clear that we are under grace and not under law, by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified, otherwise it will make void the righteouness of God in Christ. If we were justified by Law, then there was no need about a Savior and our salvation would have been a merit of us and to man's glory.

The bible says that faith wihtout works is dead. Faith works by love and love is the fruit of the Spirit. Love is the fulfillment of the law.If we love God and our neighbor as ouselves we are not condemned but have fulfilled the law Moses and the prophets. Thats why Paul says wihtout love (agape) im nothing.

We need to pay close attention to warnings of scriptures and work out our salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God that works in and thru us but its our responsibility to die to self and pick up the cross and follow Jesus.

I am more concerned with reality of our christian life, practical godliness and obeying the plain teaching of scriptures, then with theological terms that theologians love to speculate.

On the judgment day we will be hold accountable by every word that came out of our mouth,and our works will either condemn us or justify us. Im not talking about works as merit in itself but about the fruits of holiness and righteous living that spring forth out of intemate relationship with God. A genuine faith will bear genuin fruit. A good branch will bear good fruit because it remains in the vine but if we bear no fruit we will be cut off and cast out to the lake of fire.

Not to be misunderstood, there is no merit in faith or prayer or good works in itself, we are saved thru the grace of God. Salvation is all finished at the cross and its a free gift to everyone who believes, but we are exhorted to be christlike and be holy as God is holy and renounce the works of darkness and walk in the light as he is in the light.

To summarize it, i believe that a true christian is the one who has the immage of Christ in him and is christlike in his character, who does not live in willful or conscience sin (or whenever he is aware of sin he will confess it and pead the blood of Jesus and recounce sin) but lives in obidience to the word of God and his commandments. He is not only judicially declared righteous before God thru faith in his Son but is practically speaking in a state of holiness of heart and life. Only the pure in heart shall see the Lord.

**edited**

rookie Nov 23, 2009

Salvation is all finished at the cross and its a free gift to everyone who believes, but we are exhorted to be chrislike and be holy as God is holy and renounce the works of darkness and walk in the light as he is in the light.

According to Scripture your statement of belief should be clarified.
................................................

Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
................................................

Paul states that the work on the cross, the death of His Son reconciles those who turn towards Him. This reconciliation does not however save that individual. Do you see that Paul makes a very clear distinction between reconciliation and salvation? Paul clearly states that those who are reconciled are not saved by what Christ did on the cross, but "shall be saved by His life."

Have you ever considered what it means to be saved "by His life"?

In Christ
Jeff

elected Nov 23, 2009

rookie:

Have you ever considered what it means to be saved "by His life"?

The gosple is not only faith in the finished work and death of Christ on the cross but faith in the resurected Christ. If Christ did not rose from the dead our faith would have been an illusion and we would have been the most miserable people on the world.Our hope is Christ is risen from the dead and he is our life. That makes perfect sense to me.

The evidence that we are saved is the life of God in our soul and we maintain this life in our heart by faith in the Son of God. Christ in us is the hope of glory.

The natural result of believing the Lord Jesus Christ is forgiveness from sin and guilt and and a new life in Christ.

The gosple is simple, we make it complicated, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Faith is not once for all act but a continuous journey. Its about a life of faith and rest in the finished work of Christ on the cross.After being regerenated by the Holy Spirit we are called to press on to perfection, climbing up the mountain higher and higher.

This higher life of faith in Christ is a growth of faith and grace. Its a transformation from one degree of glory to another degree of glory, from one stage of grace to another stage of grace. Being more and more like Christ thats holiness.

rookie Nov 24, 2009

After being regerenated by the Holy Spirit we are called to press on to perfection, climbing up the mountain higher and higher.

Yes, this reminds me of Paul's view point....
...................................................................................................

Phl 3:14\tI press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

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And Paul exhorts the mature believer's to be of the same mind......
...................................................................................................

Phl 3:15\tTherefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

.................................................................................................

According to Scripture, how does God reveal to us the "upward call of God In Christ" to us? How do we live day to day, in a way that causes our hearts to yearn for God? For we know that God commands that we love Him with every ounce of our being.......

The gosple is simple, we make it complicated,

The nation of Israel made it complicated also...listen to Moses' exhortation....
...................................................................................................
Deu 30:11\t"For this commandment which I command you today [is] not [too] mysterious for you, nor [is] it far off.

Deu 30:12\tIt [is] not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will ascend into heaven for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'

Deu 30:13\tNor [is] it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go over the sea for us and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'

Deu 30:14\tBut the word [is] very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may do it.
.................................................................................................

How do we come to know the righteousness of Christ and how does this knowledge cause us to love God?

In Christ
Jeff

elected Nov 24, 2009

According to Scripture, how does God reveal to us the "upward call of God In Christ" to us? How do we live day to day, in a way that causes our hearts to yearn for God? For we know that God commands that we love Him with every ounce of our being.......

Brother i dont have all the answers. Im in a journey of discovering myself the best that God has for my life. All i can say is im dissatisfied with my state of heart and that im only at the shore of the ocean of Gods love and i feel the need to go deep and immerse in his love.

I know that we are in a journey pressing on to perfection and that means for me that there is no permanent stationary place in the christian walk with God. I believe in a full gosple. I also believe in total depravity of our nature but i know that on the Cross we have been provided with a wonderful redemption and deliverrance for us. Whatever we have inherit in our flesh and nature because of Adam, Christ can undo it and make us not only new creatures in Him but fill us with the love and all the fulness of God.

Hebrews 10:26 says, "if we go on sinning deliberatly after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice of sins, but a fearful excpectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversary."

That's a scary warning isn't it. Practising sin, being aware that you are living in sin,having a hard heart with unconfessed sin, is an awful thing in the sight of God. Does not matter what can be the experiences of the past if we are wilfully sinning we are in great touble because there is no longer sacrifice for sins. People in this condition, as long as they live in wilful sin, dont know in their present state the redeptive power of the blood of the lamb of God.

No body can press on to perfection without being set free from sin, without being a new creature, without being renewed daily by the Holy Ghost, without living in the Spirit, without, being fervent for the Lord, without purity of heart that comes from the shed blood of Jesus on the cross, without running the race and fighting the good fight of faith, without being comformed to the image of Christ, without the grace of God.

"Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess.5:23

"And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth."
Matt. 17:19

Jesus is our righteouness, Jesus is our sanctification, therefore we are holy and righteous if we believe Him. The only way to appropriated in our daily living the holiness of Jesus is by faith.

------------------------

How do we come to know the righteousness of Christ and how does this knowledge cause us to love God?

We are justified by faith, we receive the righteousness of God in Christ as a free gift by faith. God declares us just the moment we believe his Son as Lord & Savior and are justified. We were clothed with the rightoueness of Jesus when we believed Him. Few verses from romans about the righteouness by faith.

"The righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law"

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

"And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness."

"For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ."

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men."

"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." Galatians 2:21

Ephesians 4:24 says,"put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness"

Christ is the new adam, and our old adamic man has been crusified on the cross thats why we are exhorted to put on the new man which is in the likeness of God.

Put on the rightouensess and holiness of God that has been provided and given to us in Christ Jesus. Be clothed with Christ righteouness and holiness.

rookie Nov 26, 2009

Brother i dont have all the answers. Im in a journey of discovering myself the best that God has for my life. All i can say is im dissatisfied with my state of heart and that im only at the shore of the ocean of Gods love and i feel the need to go deep and immerse in his love.

This reminds me of what Paul stated.....
..................................................................................................
Phl 3:12\tNot that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.

Phl 3:13\tBrethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing ~~[I do]~~, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,

Phl 3:14\tI press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
..................................................................................................

Paul speaks of a direction, a purpose for which he strives. Paul speaks of a prize, which in Scripture, always speaks for what one's heart yearns for. The essence or the substance which defines what that prize is, defines one's hope or purpose for living in this life. The outward expression of this hope forms the evidence, a testimony, which creates our identity in this world. Scripture teaches that all men, believers and the lost will recognize our identity.

Names found in the OT Scripture describe the nature of this identity. In the OT Scriptures we are given examples of men, when they turned towards God, were given new names by God. The composition or the nature of these names expressed the righteousness that was given by God to each of these men. These names contain or express God's nature and not man's former nature. These testimonies of certain men are given to us as examples so that we too can recognize the ways in which God is working in this generation.

The question before all of us is this, where do we find the current expression of our identity in Scripture. Is the expression of our identity mostly found in over half the Scriptures which describe Satan's world. Is the expression of our identity, the nature of our identity, a mixture of the world and Christ? Is the expression of our identity changing because we like Paul have found the prize, the upward call of God in Christ?

twayneb Nov 27, 2009

NSCalvanist wrote:

I have still yet to see any Scripture that explicitly says "the righteousness of Christ are imputed to the believer". All I have seen is eisegesis and conjecture. Exegetically the doctrine of the imputed righteousness of Christ cannot be shown or proven.

Hey brother. In answer to this statement I would like to submit a good contextual reading of Romans chapter 4. I would also like to submit verse 11 of the same chapter as a pretty explicit statement.

We could wrestle with nuances of meaning of Greek words and the opinions of theologins of the past. What they say can be helpful, but to strive over them is not fruitful.

I would rather take the book of Romans, the book of Hebrews and the book of Galatians particulary on this topic and simply read them with a mind to accept them for what they say.

I had no righteousness of my own. I am totally incapable of obtaining my own righteousness by merit. Therefore, someone elses righteousness must by applied to me, or I have no hope. 2 Cor. 5:21 tells me that is precisely what happened to me.

Just some of my thoughts for consideration.

God bless!
Travis.

Travis.

Leo_Grace Nov 27, 2009

~~[i]~~Ro 3:21-24 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. ~~[b]~~This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe[/b]. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are ~~[b]~~justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus[/b].[/i]

Our redemption is a gift of God through faith in Jesus; and our justification or righteousness comes by that same grace through faith. Without Christ, we have neither redemption nor justification. We can ascribe nothing to ourselves. Everything good in us is from God, through Christ who loved us.

By faith, we have both redemption and righteousness from God! Is it imputed? derived? transferred? copy/paste? Does it really matter?

Christinyou Nov 27, 2009

There are only 25 verses in ROM 4, that explain the whole process. It is not repentance or baptism, which are works on our part, and enhancing even more that we have nothing to do with our salvation, who are called and given to the Son Jesus Christ and none will take them out of His hands. It is the believing, as Abraham believed God for his son Isaac. We must believe God About His Son Jesus Christ, then the faith that Abraham had that God imputed righteousness to him because of his Faith, we in the same way are saved by Grace through Faith.

Do we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that His Cross, in death, burial and resurrection, has done the same for those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God as Abraham believed God for, Isaac, who is earthly, Jesus Christ, heavenly, as stated, "Adam a living soul", "Jesus Christ a life giving Spirit", that is rebirthed in us because we believe. Then repentance and baptism are legitimate in our new life in Christ, as we follow Him.

Romans 4:1-25 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations; according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb: He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So where is Christ now? He is in the believer, because we believed, not because we repented of repentance we knew nothing about, or baptism, not even understanding why we are being baptized, water cannot cleanse the spirit which is Now Christs' Spirit, or the Soul which is ruled by the Holy Spirit, or if it cleansed the flesh we would not need to die a corn of wheat in the ground to produce fruit, water baptism is only a picture of what has already happened on the inside of the heart, the spirit and soul and will happen to the body of flesh that will be resurrected to a glorious body just like the one that Jesus Has now. Then we will be complete, The Spirit of Christ, already complete, the Soul of the Holy Spirit being completed and The flesh and bone body of Jesus Christ which will be complete on resurrection day.

Christ is where? In Believers. Where is the Holy Spirit? In Believers. Where is the Father? In Believers by the Son and the Father's abode with us.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, then we can "Seek First the Kingdom of God" and all else will be added unto us.

In Christ, perfect, becoming perfect and will be perfect.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

By His finished Works of the Cross of Christ:

"Christ in you": Phillip

rookie Nov 28, 2009

Brother Phillip wrote:

So where is Christ now? He is in the believer, because we believed, not because we repented of repentance we knew nothing about, or baptism, not even understanding why we are being baptized, water cannot cleanse the spirit which is Now Christs' Spirit, or the Soul which is ruled by the Holy Spirit,

The Corinthian, Galatian, and Philippian churches were in error according to Paul's warnings and exhortations. They were declared righteous by God and yet they were not submitting themselves to the rule of the Holy Spirit. Paul could not even speak of things spiritual because they were still carnal....

Paul was their teacher, they knew about the things that you mentioned above Phillip. Why did they not know the Spirit?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Nov 28, 2009

By faith, we have both redemption and righteousness from God! Is it imputed? derived? transferred? copy/paste? Does it really matter?

By your own statement..."Does it really matter?...begs the question...do you know the Spirit, have you heard His voice?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Nov 28, 2009

I would rather take the book of Romans, the book of Hebrews and the book of Galatians particulary on this topic and simply read them with a mind to accept them for what they say.

One should also read the Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, and Job to further understand one's standing before God.

In Christ
Jeff

Leo_Grace Nov 28, 2009

rookie wrote:
By faith, we have both redemption and righteousness from God! Is it imputed? derived? transferred? copy/paste? Does it really matter?
By your own statement..."Does it really matter?...begs the question...do you know the Spirit, have you heard His voice?
In Christ
Jeff

Yes, I do know the Holy Spirit, whom Jesus sent to me when I first believed 24 years ago. Let me ask you this: What did the Lord teach his believers in the gospel?

To dissect and pontificate on the various possible methods by which they were saved?

To generate new terminology and apply these to the myriad alternatives of step-by-step sanctification that men imagined to explain God's ways?

To boast to each other of how one's thoughts are more logical and therefore more correct in explaining God outside of Scripture?

Should we care about the minutae of these things, or are we called to accept them by faith and, rather than tarry on foolish conjecture, carry the gospel to others?

Sometimes I wonder...

IWantAnguish Nov 28, 2009

I believe that a tension ought to exist between: wanting to know the methods of God in soteriology, as well as understanding that God's ways are not our ways.

I think often times we often get tangled in one side without zealously pursuing the other... thus we get into these debates.

Yes, we ought to seek out orderly / logical theology, but we must also understand that God will always be much bigger than any box we attempt to build around Him.

Logic Nov 28, 2009

The Law is God's righteousness. God's righteousness is His law.
~~[b]~~Psalm 19:7[/b] [color=660000]The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul.[/color]

God must convert our soul from pride to humility.

Therefore, the law convicts us of sin and condemns us.
IOW, God's righteousness condemns us.

However, our faith brings imparted [& imputed] righteousness; and we know that faith without works is dead (James 2:23).
Therefore, the works are because we have faith, not to earn righteousness.

It is known that Faith without works is dead; but what are works?
Works are the ~~[b]~~fruit of righteousness[/b] (John 15:5 ).
In other words, a willful changed life, choosing to adopt a new view on life, and changing our minds with a new motive for everything that you do.

Someone may ask, "But if you don't work for your salvation, then how is faith dead without works"?

In these new aspects of your life will become actions or works that give a testimony of Christ in you.
In other words, you don't work to get a job; you work because you have a job.
So as you don't work to be saved; you work because you are saved.

We are not deemed or reckoned with ~~[b]~~God's[/b] righteousness, that does not make any scene.
That's like ma saying that I deem you as a nice gut with my own niceness (because you have no niceness of your own).
Just like "nice" cannot be transferred, so is righteousness.

God just deems us as righteous and we become righteous, plain & simple; there is no transference of HIS righteousness.

I'm not saying that we have our own righteousness, which we attempt to regain under the dead works of the law, but only in living faith (faith with works to prove it to be real).

~~[b]~~Romans 10:3[/b] [color=660000]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to ~~[b][u]~~establish[/u] their ~~[u]~~own[/u] righteousness, have ~~[u]~~not submitted[/u] themselves to the righteousness of God[/b].[/color]
We cannot be seeking to establish our own righteousness through the works of the law (works that attempt to earn anything of God), but we must submitted ourselves to the righteousness of God which, in return, establishes HIS righteousness and condemns us.
~~[b]~~We are condemned under the law.[/b] We are condemned under the righteousness of GOD!

Therefore, we cannot have HIS righteousness.
We must have a separate righteousness other than God’s.
God's righteousness is perfection, and we lost that perfection without first willful sin.

~~[b]~~Romans 3:31[/b] [color=660000]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.[/color]
We establish the law (or God's righteousness) through faith by acknowledgment of our inability to do away of our past transgressions of the law, or the maligning of God's character (our destruction of God's righteousness which would also be ours), which total adherence to the law can never make up for.

Therefore, in living faith (in contrast to dead faith, without works), we are acquitted; discharged from all quilt, which is why we submitted ourselves to the righteousness/law of God.

When we submitted ourselves to the law/righteousness of God, when submit ourselves to the righteousness of the law we stand condemned, we acknowledge our guilt; and God, in HIS grace has mercy on us, God is lenient in His judgment toward us because our faith.

Therefore, HE takes taken out from under the Law; He takes us out from under His righteousness; having been set free from being under the Law by dyeing to the Law through the body of Christ. (Romans 7:6, Galatians 5:18)
We are risen with Christ through faith, we now have eternal life which creates good works from faith because of the love of God poured out in our hearts.(Romans 5:5)

When we put our faith in/on Christ & what HE said & done (with works to prove faith to be real), that is the fulfillment of Law for righteousness sake to everyone that believes (~~[b]~~Rom 10:4[/b]) because the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Rom 8:4).

Walking after the Spirit is an active/aggressive concept of faith which includes our volition.
IOW, living faith, in contrast to faith without works, is us choosing to walking after the spirit.

The "righteousness of the law being fulfilled in us" (Rom 8:4) is that we either walk in love (love fulfills the law) &/or that we willfully accept our condemnation under the penalty of the law, which is death (Mat 10:39, 16:25; Mark 8:35, Luke 9:23-24, 17:33; John 12:25)

The question remains, if it is not our righteousness or even God's, then who's or what righteousness is it?

~~[b]~~It is righteousness of faith that it might be by grace!!![/b] (Rom 4:13,16) Hallelujah!!!

That is the orthodox understanding of impartation when God ~~[b]~~makes us to be[/b] righteous, not merely ~~[b]~~declares us[/b] righteous by imputation.

twayneb Nov 28, 2009

I believe that a tension ought to exist between: wanting to know the methods of God in soteriology, as well as understanding that God's ways are not our ways. I think often times we often get tangled in one side without zealously pursuing the other... thus we get into these debates. Yes, we ought to seek out orderly / logical theology, but we must also understand that God will always be much bigger than any box we attempt to build around Him.

Need there be tension??? Theology is simply the study of God. More specifically it is man's attempt to make sense of God through study of the word of God. The goal of theology is understanding. The problem with theology is that so often we wax soteriological, experiential, homoletical, hermateutical, exegetical, ..., and fail to realize that God fully meant us to comprehend Him and His word through revelation by the Holy Spirit of God. Paul said that he did not come to the Corinthian church with enticing words of man's wisdom, but with demonstration of power. When we speak of God not being in a box, all we really mean is that there are aspects of God that we have not yet come to understand. (By the way, although God fully means for us to understand, I think He also recognizes that attainment of that goal in its fullness is a lifelong pursuit that we will not totally accomplish.)Just when I think I have it all figured out, I experience something that shows me my theology is still incomplete.

Some try to study the word of God critically and from a totally academic standpoint. They develop elaborate theologies based on nuances of words and sentences. Their theology is dry and academic. I look at my experience walking with God in spirit and truth, and their theology falls short.

Some ignore careful study of the word altogether and frankly wind up flaky.

But there need be no conflict between careful study of the word and what we experience that we call, "God out of the box." We find no scriptural example of this.

God reveals truth to us through His word, but He does it through His Spirit. The word of God must not be logos to us, but rather rhema. It must not be words and passages, but life, strength, and power. All theology must be developed from a life of prayer couples with a life of study. We must always be willing to throw away what we think about the word in favor of what the word actually says. I hold none of my own ideas about the word of God as sacred. I hold the word of God as sacred and allow it to alter any idea I might have.

Travis.

twayneb Nov 28, 2009

Hey Logic: Brother, thank you for the clarification. You stated in this post some things that really help me to understand what you are saying. I am doing this in a Word document so I can take some time with it, so bear with me if the quotes are a bit hard to pick out.

You said: The Law is God's righteousness. God's righteousness is His law.
Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul.

It seems your definition of righteousness is blended with your definition of the holiness of God. Holiness is the nature of God. He is Holy. Righteousness is our right standing with God. We are righteous in His sight. I totally agree with your statement that works are the fruit of righteousness. Righteousness is the root of the tree. Holiness is the fruit that the tree bears because of righteousness. Although related, understanding the difference between holiness and righteousness is vital.

You said: Therefore, the law convicts us of sin and condemns us. IOW, God's righteousness condemns us.

I think yes, and then no. Yes the law convicts us of sin and condemns us (damns us to the consequences of sin). I agree with you 100% on that statement. That was the purpose of the law. Romans 3:19. However, it was not God’s righteousness that condemns us. It is His standard of holiness that we are not able in ourselves to live up to.

You said: However, our faith brings imparted [& imputed] righteousness; and we know that faith without works is dead (James 2:23).
Therefore, the works are because we have faith, not to earn righteousness.

Again, I agree with this statement. We respond in faith to what God has already done for us through the atoning work of Jesus Christ and we have righteousness (right standing) with God imparted or imputed to us by no merit of our own. True also that works are a result of faith. When James talks about demonstration of faith by works, he means that the works of obedience to God that naturally flow out of a life of faith are evidence that faith is at work. i.e., If the Holy Spirit tells you to go pray for a man in a wheelchair and tell him that God will heal him, it requires great faith to perform that work of obedience. Everything in our human nature screams against it because of fear that it will not happen.

You said: We are not deemed or reckoned with God's righteousness, that does not make any scene.
That's like ma saying that I deem you as a nice gut with my own niceness (because you have no niceness of your own). Just like "nice" cannot be transferred, so is righteousness.

This is the point where you come into conflict with yourself. Being “nice” is not the same as being righteous. Being righteous is our standing in the sight or opinion of God. Being nice is something we ought to do. One is declared of us by no merit of our own. The other might earn us merit if we do it. You stated a few sentences back that righteousness is imparted or imputed, and in this statement you say that is not so. In my opinion, it is because of a faulty definition of righteousness.

You said: God just deems us as righteous and we become righteous, plain & simple; there is no transference of HIS righteousness.

Again, I agree. He just deems us righteous. True! I totally agree with that statement. There could never be transference of His righteousness. We are born again. Our spirit is regenerated. We pass from death (a state of being dead in our spirit toward God) to life (a state of being alive in our spirit toward God). This happens because of the expiatory sacrifice of Christ. We were forgiven 2000 years ago. Now we, through faith, appropriate that sacrifice. At that point, we are right in God’s eyes (righteous) Again, the proper definition of righteousness. God is always right in God sight. It could be no other way.

You said: I'm not saying that we have our own righteousness, which we attempt to regain under the dead works of the law, but only in living faith (faith with works to prove it to be real).
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves to the righteousness of God.
We cannot be seeking to establish our own righteousness through the works of the law (works that attempt to earn anything of God), but we must submitted ourselves to the righteousness of God…

Total agreement so far. In my opinion you are absolutely right up to this point.

Then you said: … which, in return, establishes HIS righteousness and condemns us.
We are condemned under the law. We are condemned under the righteousness of GOD!

Not at all in my opinion. Our being declared righteous does not condemn us. It frees us from condemnation. Romans 8. Yes, we are condemned under the law. The law was a ministry of condemnation, a ministry of death, by its very design by God. No, being right in the sight of God does not condemn me. It sets me free. In fact, once I am born again, the holiness of God does not condemn me, and the shadow of that holiness called the law does not either. I am free from that condemnation. If I get off, the Holy Spirit will let me know about it (conviction), but that is far different from condemnation.

You said: Therefore, we cannot have HIS righteousness.

According to Philippians 3:9, it is the only righteousness we can have. It is right standing in God’s eyes through no merit of our own. Right standing in God’s sight is obtained through faith in the shed blood of Jesus.

You said: We must have a separate righteousness other than God’s.
God's righteousness is perfection, and we lost that perfection without first willful sin.

We did not need to sin willfully to be lost. We were born into it. Romans 5.

You said: We establish the law (or God's righteousness) through faith by acknowledgment of our inability to do away of our past transgressions of the law, or the maligning of God's character (our destruction of God's righteousness which would also be ours), which total adherence to the law can never make up for.

Again, the law is not synonymous with God’s righteousness. The law was a faint shadow of God’s holiness. Recall Matthew 5. Jesus tells the people that unless their righteousness exceeded that of the scribes and the Pharisees, they could in no wise enter the kingdom. The scribes and Pharisees tried to be right in God’s sight through careful observance of the law. Then Jesus contrasts the law (a shadow of God’s holiness) with the true standard of God’s holiness and shows them that even the Pharisees are totally incapable of making it on their own merit. He caps it off by saying, if you want to enter by your own works, you have to be perfect like God (be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect). The law is not God’s righteousness, it is the ministration of death that shows us we can never be righteous by ourselves, but need a savior to impute righteousness to us.

You said: Therefore, in living faith (in contrast to dead faith, without works), we are acquitted; discharged from all quilt, which is why we submitted ourselves to the righteousness/law of God. When we submitted ourselves to the law/righteousness of God, when submit ourselves to the righteousness of the law we stand condemned, we acknowledge our guilt; and God, in HIS grace has mercy on us, God is lenient in His judgment toward us because our faith. Therefore, HE takes taken out from under the Law; He takes us out from under His righteousness; having been set free from being under the Law by dyeing to the Law through the body of Christ. (Romans 7:6, Galatians 5:18) We are risen with Christ through faith, we now have eternal life which creates good works from faith because of the love of God poured out in our hearts.(Romans 5:5)

See my last statement.

You said: When we put our faith in/on Christ & what HE said & done (with works to prove faith to be real), that is the fulfillment of Law for righteousness sake to everyone that believes (Rom 10:4) because the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (Rom 8:4).

True statement, but not, I think, in the way you meant it. Christ fulfilled the law. What does this mean? The law had a purpose of concluding all under sin and showing them that they could NEVER work their way out of it outside of a savior. Christ was that savior, and in being such, brought fulfillment to the law. He was the one that the law showed us we needed.

You said: It is righteousness of faith that it might be by grace!!! (Rom 4:13,16) Hallelujah!!!

I too say Hallelujah and rejoice with you at this. If it was by merit, then it would be due us. Since it is by faith, it is a grace gift of God, not earned by us. So it is valid in God’s eyes.

Anyway brother, that is how I have come to see it.

God bless you!

Travis.

Christinyou Nov 28, 2009

Jeff wrote:

"Paul was their teacher, they knew about the things that you mentioned above Phillip. Why did they not know the Spirit?"

The Spirit in them was not revealed yet by preaching until Paul came on the scene. Then the whole bucket of Grace was poured out to them, "The Mystery", all, total, complete in Christ by Grace through, Like; you cannot have just a little bit of pregnancy. You are or your not. Christ in you is the Mystery and the Holy Spirit is the manifesting person of this Mystery.

Because The Holy Spirit was now in them and not just with them. This was hidden from all time past and only revealed to Paul who was teaching that Christ was in them and the Holy Spirit was in them because they believed.

This working came from the Christ revelation in Paul and taught by and made plain by the foolishness of preaching. "Christ in you", "whom we preach" and made manifest in his saints by the power of the Holy Spirit manifested on the soul/minds of those who now have the mind of Christ, that as He is in this world so are we.

This is the only perfection we can declare; "Christ in you the hope of glory", that every man, perfected in spirit by the Spirit of Christ, being perfected in soul/mind by the Holy Spirit revelation, may be presented perfect in Christ Jesus. "which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:"

This is our warning. That we might be found, every man, "but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach," even as; Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

In Christ: Phillip

rookie Nov 29, 2009

What did the Lord teach his believers in the gospel?

The Lord promised this to His disciples....

....................................................................................................
Jhn 16:13\tHowever, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own [authority], but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.
...................................................................................................

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit "will guide you into all truth." Jesus said that the Holy Spirit " will tell you things to come."

Are these promises only for the Apostles?

Listen to the content of Paul's prayers for the believer......

...................................................................................................
Eph 1:17\tthat the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,

Eph 1:18\tthe eyes of your understanding [fn] being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
..................................................................................................

Why does Paul pray that God would also give "you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him,"

Listen to the Scriptures found in Job......

Job 36:7\tHe does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous; But [they are] on the throne with kings, For He has seated them forever, And they are exalted.

Job 36:8\tAnd if [they are] bound in fetters, Held in the cords of affliction,

Job 36:9\tThen He tells them their work and their transgressions-- That they have acted defiantly.

Job 36:10\tHe also opens their ear to instruction, And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Job 36:11\tIf they obey and serve [Him], They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures.

Job 36:12\tBut if they do not obey, They shall perish by the sword, And they shall die without knowledge. [fn]

Job 36:13\t"But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath; They do not cry for help when He binds them.

Job 36:14\tThey die in youth, And their life [ends] among the perverted persons. [fn]
................................................................................................

Why is it that these who were reconciled to God, whom God opened their ears to instruction, why were these declared 'hypocrites in heart"? This section of Scripture in not speaking of the works of the law but of the works of faith...............

In Christ
Jeff

Logic Nov 29, 2009

twayneb;

I was 1/2 way through my reply to you until I was stopped in my tracks with a flaw in my thinking.

I will study up on this more and come back to you.

twayneb Nov 30, 2009

Logic: Awesome brother. I find that when I discuss things with others it always drives me to study more myself. God bless you!
Travis.

Christinyou Nov 30, 2009

Jeff wrote:

"Why is it that these who were reconciled to God, whom God opened their ears to instruction, why were these declared 'hypocrites in heart"? This section of Scripture in not speaking of the works of the law but of the works of faith"

Being reconciled to God in the old testament, was still under the law and Christ was not in them, only with them at different times, no change of heart. We who have the mystery revealed to us have this change of heart by the Christ that has been birthed in us and by the Holy Spirit revealing this mystery by the preaching of Paul, which we have in all his letters. Paul's epitome of revelation in all his letters, Christ in you the Holy Spirit Comforter also, teaching us the mystery and what is to be revealed by this new birth and change of nature. Satan out and Christ in the believer, the whole bucket of Grace poured into the believer by The Faith of Jesus Christ who is now our Spirit, and the "another comforter" the Holy Spirit to reveal what Jesus has said to Paul, the mystery revealed. "Christ n you the hope of Glory.

Faith and life of Christ in the believer who is now dead to sin and resurrected to life, just like The Christ Spirit we now have in us.

When he died I was in Him, when He was resurrected I was resurrected to new life by the Spirit of Christ birthed in me. Every nail, opened and bloody stripes, death by the Cross was because of me. He took all that evil could throw at Him and came out victorious in the salvation of His Body the Body of Christ His Church and will some day present it all to the Father that all may be in One. Christ in me and me in Christ, Christ as me, but not me as Christ, only by the growing up in Christ am I as Christ, I have a long way to go, it will take all eternity to even touch this phrase, me as Christ. But He can come through me and come forth as Christ. "For as He is in this would so are we".

This is the whole of the final Gospel;

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Paul's declaration of "My Gospel" the final Gospel that was revealed to Paul for us.

Galatians 1:8-12 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Warning;

Galatians 1:6-12 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Why the warning?

Galatians 1:15-20 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.

In Christ, the mystery revealed in us, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory: Phillip

rookie Nov 30, 2009

Just like "nice" cannot be transferred, so is righteousness.
God just deems us as righteous and we become righteous, plain & simple; there is no transference of HIS righteousness.

Paul teaches that we are saved by His life. In the following Scripture Jesus says this of the Holy Spirit...........................

Jhn 16:13\tHowever, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own [authority], but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Jhn 16:14\tHe will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare [it] to you.
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For what purpose does the Holy Spirit take from Jesus what is His and declare it to those who have been reconciled to God through the blood of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Nov 30, 2009

1 John 3:8-9 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

The Christ that is born again in us of the Incorruptable Seed, cannot sin.

A man can, then we have an advocate with the Father.

Thus, those born from above cannot sin Because His Seed remains in us.

A man in the Flesh can sin, but the Seed still remains in us.

In Christ: Phillip

sermonindex Nov 30, 2009

1 John 3:9 Commentary

Ver. 9. Doth not commit sin. That is, as long as he keepeth in himself this seed of grace, and this divine generation, by which he is born of God. But then he may fall from this happy state by the abuse of his free-will, as appears from Romans xi. 20, 21, 22.; 1 Corinthians ix. 27. and x. 12.; Philippians ii. 12.; Apocalypse iii. 11. (Challoner) --- He cannot sin, because he is born of God. The meaning of this can be no more, than that he cannot sin as long as the seed of grace remaineth in him, and as long as he is the adoptive son of God. But it is evident he may fall from this happy condition, and from the grace of God, otherwise St. John would not so often in this epistle have exhorted them not to sin. (Witham)

rookie Dec 1, 2009

Phl 3:8 ....that I may gain Christ,

Phl 3:9\tand be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
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Paul has stated in Romans 5:10 ...much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. In Paul's letter to the Philippians, Paul again points to the life of Jesus as being the means by which he has come to know God's righteousness. Paul goal is to "gain Christ".

According to Philippians 3:9 , "...the righteousness which is from God by faith." is the substance for which Paul strives to attain. He acknowledges that in himself there is no human ability sufficient to acquire "Christ." He points to the means by which man can truly know the righteousness that is of God.

Jesus said this....

Mat 11:29\tTake My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

God enables men to know His righteousness through the work of Christ teaching those who continually submit to His guidance. Jesus says, "learn from Me." For those who learn from Him by the Holy Spirit, these grow in knowledge and understanding of His ways. Jesus said "I am the way", so we must turn from our way. Jesus said, (I am) "the truth", so for those whp turn to Him, He will give these a love for "the truth." Jesus said, (I am) "the life", so for those who learn from Him, for those who grow in love for the truth, these will gain "the life."

Jhn 8:12\t Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

Job 33:29\t"Behold, God works all these [things], Twice, [in fact], three [times] with a man,

Job 33:30\tTo bring back his soul from the Pit, That he may be enlightened with the light of life.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 2, 2009

Phl 3:10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
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Paul's desire, is "that I may know Him." This reminds me of the Scripture found in 1 John.

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1Jo 2:12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake.

1Jo 2:13 I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning. I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father.

1Jo 2:14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one.
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In the first verse John says this of some of the believer's that he is writing to. He says, 1Jo 2:12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. These believers are those who are babes in Christ. They have been reconciled to God and thus their sins have been forgiven.

John says this of the second group of believers..."I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one." Notice the progression in maturity that defines the nature of these "young men." They are strong, a child is weak. The word of God abides in them, a child is only beginning to understand that "word." The young men have overcome the wicked one. Those who have not been trained by the word of God are not able to discern between good and evil.......

And finally John says this of the believers who are fathers....1Jo 2:14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him [who is] from the beginning.

Both Paul and John speak of this same thought..."that I may know Him." He is the light of life. He is the way the truth and the life.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 5, 2009

Both Paul and John speak of this same thought..."that I may know Him." He is the light of life. He is the way the truth and the life.

The witness of this "life" can be found in many parts of Scripture. Adam and Eve knew of this "life." For God had made this "life" available to them.

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Gen 2:9\tAnd out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life [was] also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Gen 2:15\tThen the LORD God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it.

Gen 2:16\tAnd the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat;

Gen 2:17\tbut of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
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According to Scripture, Adam and Eve could freely eat of the "tree of life." And God also warned them not to eat of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." God set before them the choice, eat of the tree of life and live, or eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and die. Once Adam transgressed God's ordinance, the tree of life was taken away from Adam and Eve.

Solomon also spoke of the "tree of life."

...................................................................................................Pro 3:5\tTrust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

Pro 3:6\tIn all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct [fn] your paths.
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Solomon under the direction of the Holy Spirit exhorts believer's to "lean not on your own understanding," and allow Him to direct your paths." This exhortation speaks of submitting to the leading of God. The "paths" that are mentioned above are found throughout Scripture. These "paths" the believer walks on are paths of righteousness.

Solomon continues.....
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Pro 3:13\tHappy [is] the man [who] finds wisdom, And the man [who] gains understanding;

Pro 3:14\tFor her proceeds [are] better than the profits of silver, And her gain than fine gold.

Pro 3:15\tShe [is] more precious than rubies, And all the things you may desire cannot compare with her.

Pro 3:16\tLength of days [is] in her right hand, In her left hand riches and honor.

Pro 3:17\tHer ways [are] ways of pleasantness, And all her paths [are] peace.

Pro 3:18\tShe [is] a tree of life to those who take hold of her, And happy [are all] who retain her.
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Paul is always praying for the believer to grow in knowledge and understanding. Solomon also acknowledges this precept..Happy [is] the man [who] finds wisdom, And the man [who] gains understanding. In verse 18 Solomon identifies that the source of this kind of knowledge and understanding come from, "She is a tree of life for those who take hold of her, and happy are all who retain her."

So those who not only take hold of the tree of life but also those who retain her, are those who will walk in the paths of righteousness. Like Adam we are also given this opportunity to choose to retain and hold onto the "tree of life."

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Rev 2:7\t "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." '

Rev 22:14\t Blessed [are] those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
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The death of Christ has reconciled us to the Father, "that they may have the right to the tree of life" But much more, those who eat of the tree of life, will be saved by that life.

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Dec 6, 2009

Grace is not a seed unless you are speaking of the Spirit of the Living Christ that is Born Again in us.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

How does the Spirit of Christ dwell in us?

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Word of God? Who is this?

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

When were we chosen in Him?

Ephesians 1:3-23 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him ((((((((((((((before)))))))))))) the foundation of the world, ---(not from the foundation of the world)--- that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Grace is through and by the Seed, which is Christ, not grace being the Seed unless you make Jesus Christ Grace also, which is completely correct, for He is our all in all.

In Christ: Phillip

rookie Dec 6, 2009

Col 1:19\tFor it pleased [the Father that] in Him all the fullness should dwell,

Col 1:20\tand by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

Col 1:21\tAnd you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

Col 1:22\tin the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight--

Col 1:23\tif indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
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Paul teaches the Colossian church that "in Him all the fulness should dwell." All grace necessary to save men is found, is dispensed by our Lord and Savior. Paul teaches that Christ made peace between the lost and the Father through His death on the cross. Paul teaches that Christ purpose is to present us who were once enemies, now holy and blameless. All of this grace is freely given to those who retain the "tree of life." For Paul warns the Colossians, that they must continue along the path that they have been walking........

"if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard...."

This path is lighted by the light of life. Faith comes by hearing the word of God...listen to what Solomon writes by the direction of the Holy Spirit.......

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Pro 1:23\tTurn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.
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This promise of God to pour out His Spirit on those who repent, this promise enables those who repent to know His voice.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 9, 2009

Rom 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,

Rom 5:21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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In the above Scripture Paul uses the word "reign" to highlight and thus to critique one's heart motivation. Paul basically points to the fact that one can have a heart that is controled by the flesh and that leads to death. Or one can have a heart that has overcome the ways of Adam because, as Paul states,"much more those who receive abundance of grace" will experience the "reign" of grace which is "the gift of righteousness." This "righteousness" because of grace brings one "to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Paul in Romans 8 says the same thing in another way....
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Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.

Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
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Paul writes to the Corintians.......

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2Cr 6:11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open.

2Cr 6:12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your [own] affections.
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Only by grace can we grow to understand how we "are restricted by" our "own affections." The Corinthians had not grown spiritually because they had not "put to death the deeds of the body" by obedience to the Spirit. Only "the life" can overcome our flesh so that we might be saved onto eternal life.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 11, 2009

As Paul exhorted the Corinthians to seperate themselves from their own "affections." Paul now encourages Timothy to spread the same message amongst the Ephesian church.
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2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ [fn] depart from iniquity."

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.

2Ti 2:21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
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I believe Paul spent over 2 years teaching the believer's of the Ephesian church the ways of God. Yet he encourages Timothy, and those Timothy ministers to, to "Flee also youthful lusts." Paul exhorts them as well as us to "pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace..."

Do you see that pursuing righteousness will seperate us from the "youthful lusts?" Only by calling on the name of the Lord will one experience the power of "life" that is the means by which we are saved.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 13, 2009

Job 33:
26 \tHe shall pray to God, and He will delight in him,
\tHe shall see His face with joy,
\tFor He restores to man His righteousness.
27 \tThen he looks at men and says,
\t“I have sinned, and perverted what was right,
\tAnd it did not profit me.’
28 \tHe will redeem his soul from going down to the Pit,
\tAnd his life shall see the light.
29 \t“Behold, God works all these things,
\tTwice, in fact, three times with a man,
30 \tTo bring back his soul from the Pit,
\tThat he may be enlightened with the light of life.
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In the Scripture above we see that God “restores to man His righteousness.” The work of God in the lives of those who repent is defined in verse 30. God’s pursuit of man is “To bring back his soul from the Pit.” The result of God reconciling man to Himself through His Son is “That he may be enlightened with the light of life.” Apostle John writes of this light of life.

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
John 1:15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
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In the Scripture above John identifies the source of this light. It is Jesus. John writes by the power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus “gives light to every man every man coming into the world.” John the Baptist declared that Jesus is “preferred before me, for He was before me.” No one has ever seen the Father except the Son. And the Son declares His Father to the world. When Apostle John writes, “In Him was life, and the life was the light of men,” it is this “life” which is able to save men. It is “life” which enlightens men so that they too can reflect this “light” to the world. Jesus says this of the light that is possessed by those who are His disciples.

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Matt. 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.
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Those who have been “enlightened with the light of life” are themselves expected to be light in this dark world. This “life” saves men by conveying men out of darkness into the light. This light brings knowledge and understanding to those who pursue God. This light reveals what truly is valuable. This light reveals what is vanity. This light enables those who are trained by it to discern between what is good and what is evil. This light enables man to overcome the wicked one. This light brings one to love the truth. This light will grow in us a love of the Father, a love which the Son had when He gave His earthly body as a sacrifice so that we too might know the “life.” This light fulfills the law.

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Jer. 23:5 \t“Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD,
\t“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
\tA King shall reign and prosper,
\tAnd execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 \tIn His days Judah will be saved,
\tAnd Israel will dwell safely;
\tNow this is His name by which He will be called:
\t\tTHE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Jer. 33:15 \t“In those days and at that time
\tI will cause to grow up to David
\tA Branch of righteousness;
\tHe shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
16 \tIn those days Judah will be saved,
\tAnd Jerusalem will dwell safely.
\tAnd this is the name by which she will be called:
\t\tTHE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.’
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In this generation are we part of the "Branch of righteousness?"
Does our light grow faith to faith, glory to glory?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 15, 2009

Mat 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your [fn] mind.'
Mat 22:38 This is [the] first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And [the] second [is] like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' [fn]
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
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Throughout Scripture we find this same commandment. The love of God and the love of one another fulfills the "Law and the Prophets." Jesus declares "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." The OT Scriptures outline God's precepts, they define what it means to love God and to love one another.

Here is an example of what happens when God pours out His Spirit upon a generation....

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Act 2:42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Act 2:43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.
Act 2:44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common,
Act 2:45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.
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Many will teach that this was a time of economic experimentation which failed. Actually this testimony speaks of the power of the Holy Spirit to overcome greed and selfishness which of course are the outworkings of our man's sinfulness. If one were to read in the OT Scriptures...
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Deu 15:7 "If there is among you a poor man of your brethren, within any of the gates in your land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart nor shut your hand from your poor brother,
Deu 15:8 but you shall open your hand wide to him and willingly lend him sufficient for his need, whatever he needs.

Deu 15:10 You shall surely give to him, and your heart should not be grieved when you give to him, because for this thing the LORD your God will bless you in all your works and in all to which you put your hand.
Deu 15:11 For the poor will never cease from the land; therefore I command you, saying, 'You shall open your hand wide to your brother, to your poor and your needy, in your land.'
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Look for the workings of the Holy Spirit circumsizing the hearts of those who call on the name of the Lord. The church in Jerusalem reflected the light of life that overcomes this world. The church at Jerusalem was experiencing the tribulations that come from the world. Those who believed were being put out of their homes and the synagogue. The members of this church held their hands wide open.....

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 22, 2009

Pro 9:10\t"The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One [is] understanding.
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In this Scripture above we are given two thoughts. The first speaks of a beginning, a start if you will in the path that will lead one to the understanding of who the "Holy One" is. We know from Scripture that the "Holy One" refers to our Messiah.

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Psa 16:10\t For You will not leave my soul in Sheol, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.

Mar 1:24\t saying, "Let [us] alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are--the Holy One of God!"

Luk 1:35\t And the angel answered and said to her, "[The] Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

Act 3:14\t But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,

1Jo 2:20\tBut you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. [fn]
................................................................................................

So those who wisely turn towards God will be given knowledge of the Holy One. Listen to these verses which describes this kind of life.

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Pro 10:17\tHe who keeps instruction [is in] the way of life, But he who refuses correction goes astray.
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In the above verse we are given this precept. "He who keeps instruction will find that his way will reveal a 'life" that he did not know before. But those who refuse to listen to instruction that corrects what is not pleasing to the Lord will go astray. Listen to this exhortation that the Holy Spirit has given us.

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Pro 9:4\t"Whoever [is] simple, let him turn in here!" [As for] him who lacks understanding, she says to him,

Pro 9:5\t"Come, eat of my bread And drink of the wine I have mixed.

Pro 9:6\tForsake foolishness and live, And go in the way of understanding.
..................................................................................................

A babe in Christ is one who Scriptures portray as being "simple."
As we know from Paul's corrective letter's to the Corinthians, Philippians, Ephesians, and Galatians many were not able to understand the ways of the Spirit for their minds were still seeking a life centered on the carnal. From these examples, Paul gives us a picture of those who had not forsaken "foolishness." These believers were still going astray. Listen to the promise given to us by the Holy Spirit.

..................................................................................................

Pro 8:4\t"To you, O men, I call, And my voice [is] to the sons of men.

Pro 8:5\tO you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart.

Pro 8:6\tListen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips [will come] right things;

Pro 8:7\tFor my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.

Pro 8:8\tAll the words of my mouth [are] with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse [is] in them.

Pro 8:9\tThey [are] all plain to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.

Pro 8:10\tReceive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold;

Pro 8:11\tFor wisdom [is] better than rubies, And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
...............................................................................................

Those who gave to those who were in need in the days of Pentecost gave because they had received a treasure much more valuable then choice gold and rubies. The Holy Spirit is able to overcome the desires that we have for this world. These believers gave freely because the Holy Spirit had filled them with a love that far exceeds anything this world has to offer. These believers were empowered by the Holy Spirit to satisfy the commandments of God. Love God with all your heart and love one another. They had at that time overcome the law that condemns the flesh.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 26, 2009

Pro 8:4\t"To you, O men, I call, And my voice [is] to the sons of men.
Pro 8:5\tO you simple ones, understand prudence, And you fools, be of an understanding heart.
Pro 8:6\tListen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips [will come] right things;
Pro 8:7\tFor my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8\tAll the words of my mouth [are] with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse [is] in them.
Pro 8:9\tThey [are] all plain to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.
Pro 8:10\tReceive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold;
Pro 8:11\tFor wisdom [is] better than rubies, And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
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In the first verse we hear that a "call" goes out "To you, O men." There is another section of Scriptures which speak of this call.....

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Rom 1:18\tFor the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19\tbecause what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown [it] to them.
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Paul writes that "what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown (it) to them." All men are without excuse because the Scripture clearly say that God has shown (it) to them." As Solomon has written by the Holy Spirit, "To you, O men, I call." Some will say to themselves, these Scriptures do not say point blank that this is the Holy Spirit speaking. They will say that one can not prove it. Well then listen to what follows in Solomon's exhortation.

...............................................................................................................
Pro 8:6\tListen, for I will speak of excellent things, And from the opening of my lips [will come] right things;
Pro 8:7\tFor my mouth will speak truth; Wickedness [is] an abomination to my lips.
Pro 8:8\tAll the words of my mouth [are] with righteousness; Nothing crooked or perverse [is] in them.
..................................................................................................................

Who alone in the whole council of God has the right to claim the truth in it's entirety as these Scriptures above claim?

Going back to the first verse and the second part listen to what Solomon writes.

................................................................................................................
Pro 8:4 "...And my voice [is] to the sons of men."
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Jesus often called Himself...Son of man. And Paul writes...

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Rom 8:16\tThe Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17\tand if children, then heirs--heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with [Him], that we may also be glorified together.
.................................................................................................................

For those who know Proverb 8:4 "...And my voice (is) to the sons of men." these will know that they are children of God. These will know that they are "joint heirs" with the Son of Man. Jesus said that those who are His disciples will know His voice. Likewise this same precept is explained by Solomon.

.........................................................................................................
Pro 8:9\tThey [are] all plain to him who understands, And right to those who find knowledge.
.............................................................................................................

One cannot overcome his own flesh, his own voice. There is nothing that can come from the flesh that pleases the Father. Only those who continue with prudence, who desires not to remain simple, only those who having heard the truth choose not remain a fool, these will find the power that enables us to be born of God and joint heirs with Christ. Listen to the change of heart that only the Spirit can achieve. Here is a promise...

............................................................................................................
Pro 8:10\tReceive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold;
Pro 8:11\tFor wisdom [is] better than rubies, And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her.
...........................................................................................................

Above we are given a choice. Jesus said that one cannot serve two masters. The promise above exhorts us to receive instruction rather than silver. This choice highlights the spiritual instead of the carnal. This verse highlights the precepts of the kingdom instead of the world. The promise stated above tells us that the "wisdom" we gain is better than rubies. The verse above states that "And all the things one may desire cannot be compared with her." Throughout the Scripture we find the testimony of the faithful who found her, that indeed this is a faithful statement.

The example given to us in the days of Pentecost represents the power of revival in that generation. The words they heard, the things they saw, the voice that instructed them separated unto God a people who found something of greater worth than this world had previously offered them. It is only by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can be born of God.

...................................................................................................................Pro 2:6\tFor the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;
Pro 2:8\tHe guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.
Pro 2:9\tThen you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity [and] every good path.
Pro 2:10\tWhen wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
Pro 2:11\tDiscretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,
Pro 2:12\tTo deliver you from the way of evil, From the man who speaks perverse things,
Pro 2:13\tFrom those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness;
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Christ is our Wisdom. He is the "Light of Life." He is the "Holy One of Israel". He is "Life."

rookie Dec 29, 2009

Pro 2:6\tFor the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;
Pro 2:8\tHe guards the paths of justice, And preserves the way of His saints.
Pro 2:9\tThen you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity [and] every good path.
Pro 2:10\tWhen wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
Pro 2:11\tDiscretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,
Pro 2:12\tTo deliver you from the way of evil, From the man who speaks perverse things,
Pro 2:13\tFrom those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness;
........................................................................................................................

In verse 6 we are told that the Lord by way of speaking gives wisdom and understanding. In verse 7 we see that the Lord "stores up sound wisdom" for those who walk uprightly. This idea of "storing up wisdom" speaks of a duration of time in which the Lord has planned on providing this grace to each individual that walks with Him. In the OT, the word "walk" can be interchanged with the word "faith." How can two walk together unless they agree?

In the book of Joshua we have this verse...

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Jos 1:3\tEvery place that the sole of your foot will tread upon I have given you, as I said to Moses.
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If you follow the Scriptures in Joshua you will find that every time that Joshua waited on the Lord, the Lord gave him instructions prior to the event. And likewise you will find a few times where Joshua did not wait on the Lord. These were times where the Lord prevented him from going forward....

In Christ
Jeff

sermonindex Dec 30, 2009

I. JUSTIFICATION

1987 The grace of the Holy Spirit has the power to justify us, that is, to cleanse us from our sins and to communicate to us "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ" and through Baptism:34

But if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. For we know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. The death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.35

1988 Through the power of the Holy Spirit we take part in Christ's Passion by dying to sin, and in his Resurrection by being born to a new life; we are members of his Body which is the Church, branches grafted onto the vine which is himself:36

[God] gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature. . . . For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized.37

1989 The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus' proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."38 Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.39

1990 Justification detaches man from sin which contradicts the love of God, and purifies his heart of sin. Justification follows upon God's merciful initiative of offering forgiveness. It reconciles man with God. It frees from the enslavement to sin, and it heals.

1991 Justification is at the same time the acceptance of God's righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ. Righteousness (or "justice") here means the rectitude of divine love. With justification, faith, hope, and charity are poured into our hearts, and obedience to the divine will is granted us.

1992 Justification has been merited for us by the Passion of Christ who offered himself on the cross as a living victim, holy and pleasing to God, and whose blood has become the instrument of atonement for the sins of all men. Justification is conferred in Baptism, the sacrament of faith. It conforms us to the righteousness of God, who makes us inwardly just by the power of his mercy. Its purpose is the glory of God and of Christ, and the gift of eternal life:40

But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from law, although the law and the prophets bear witness to it, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus.41

1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:

When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42

1994 Justification is the most excellent work of God's love made manifest in Christ Jesus and granted by the Holy Spirit. It is the opinion of St. Augustine that "the justification of the wicked is a greater work than the creation of heaven and earth," because "heaven and earth will pass away but the salvation and justification of the elect . . . will not pass away."43 He holds also that the justification of sinners surpasses the creation of the angels in justice, in that it bears witness to a greater mercy.

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45

rookie Dec 30, 2009

1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:

Justification reconciles us to God through the death of His Son. Much more, it is the life of Christ that seperates us from the ways of this world...

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Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

What does this Scripture mean to you personally..."we shall be saved by His life?"

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Dec 31, 2009

Again in verse 6, it is God who must work upon men in a way that men can know that they are being spoken to. Faith is an imagination of the carnal mind if that faith was not created by the hearing of the word of God. Our Father desires to impart knowledge and wisdom to His adopted children. And for what purpose?

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Pro 2:11\tDiscretion will preserve you; Understanding will keep you,
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The children of God were once enemies of God because they walked in the ways of death. But God has reconciled us through the death of His only begotten Son that while we were still enemies of God according to our carnal mind we now have a High Priest who always lives to lift our earthly minds out of the corruption of the law of death. As new born babes we are freely given access into all grace that comes through Jesus Christ or Lord. Much more we now can obtain the mind of Christ, the heart of Christ, if we take on the "life" of Christ. The Holy Spirit's council is freely given to those who say yes to the Lord daily. What is achieved by this give and receive process? The children learn to discern what is good and what is evil. This understanding keeps us in the path of "life."

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Pro 2:9\tThen you will understand righteousness and justice, Equity [and] every good path.
............................................................................................................

The fruit of this giving by the Holy Spirit and the receiving of what is given by the children of God, is described in the verse above. Please see that there is this word "Then." "Then you will understand righteousness..."

The "life" of Christ is the predestined means by which God imparts righteousness into every child of God. One is saved by this "life." Search the Scriptures, receive the word, and in turn God will grow in you a love for the truth which "..preserves the way of His saints." It is this kind of love that overcomes the world.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 2, 2010

Pro 2:6\tFor the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding;
Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;

This is the promise which the Scriptures reveal to those who walk with the Lord. One cannot glorify our Lord unless the Lord lights his path. Here in another section of Scriptures we have this same precept....

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Psa 89:14\tRighteousness and justice [are] the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face.
Psa 89:15\tBlessed [are] the people who know the joyful sound! They walk, O LORD, in the light of Your countenance.
Psa 89:16\tIn Your name they rejoice all day long, And in Your righteousness they are exalted.
Psa 89:17\tFor You [are] the glory of their strength, And in Your favor our horn is exalted.
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Psa 89:15 Blessed are the people who know the joyful sound!..." Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth [come] knowledge and understanding; Psa 89:15 "...They walk, O LORD, in the light of Your countenance" Pro 2:7\tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright; [He is] a shield to those who walk uprightly;

What is the fruit of walking in the light that the Lord gives?

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Psa 89:16\tIn Your name they rejoice all day long, And in Your righteousness they are exalted.
Psa 89:17\tFor You [are] the glory of their strength, And in Your favor our horn is exalted.
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Those who walk in the light of His countenance will be exalted by His righteousness. His glory becomes their strength. As one walks in the light, as one grows in understanding and knowledge because of the light, one will rejoice in the truth and mercy of our Lord.

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Psa 89:14\tRighteousness and justice [are] the foundation of Your throne; Mercy and truth go before Your face.
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Paul exhorts the believer........

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Eph 5:8\t For you were once darkness, but now [you are] light in the Lord. Walk as children of light.

Rom 8:1\t There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:4\t that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
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The precept of walking with God begins in Genesis and ends in Revelation. Only by the power of God can one learn to walk in the ways that please God. Those who walk in uprightness will know the light, for the light of life enables us to love God and one another...so "that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

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Jhn 8:12\t Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

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Do you hear the promise that Jesus declared?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 12, 2010

Pro 4:11\tI have taught you in the way of wisdom; I have led you in right paths.

Pro 4:12\tWhen you walk, your steps will not be hindered, And when you run, you will not stumble.

Pro 4:13\tTake firm hold of instruction, do not let go; Keep her, for she [is] your life.
.......................................................................................................................

As the Scriptures speak of walking with the Lord, as the Scriptures speak of the just shall live by faith, so the Scriptures also speak of the direction in which one travels over time. In the Scriptures above we see that the Father is exhorting His son to "take firm hold of instruction, do not let go." The Father speaks of already teaching His son "in the way of wisdom..." The Father declares that He has already led His son "in the right paths." Because the son has been given this understanding in the Lord's way of wisdom, the Father gives assurance to the son that when he walks in the way that he has been taught, he will not be hindered. When the son runs in the way that he has been taught he will not stumble. The Father exhorts his son...."Keep her, for she is your life."

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Pro 4:18\tBut the path of the just [is] like the shining sun, [fn] That shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.
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As the just learn this path, as they walk according to the Spirit, God's righteousness grows evermore brilliant in their own hearts and minds. The light overcomes the darkness of our old man's way.

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Pro 4:20\tMy son, give attention to my words; Incline your ear to my sayings.

Pro 4:21\tDo not let them depart from your eyes; Keep them in the midst of your heart;

Pro 4:22\tFor they [are] life to those who find them, And health to all their flesh.

Pro 4:23\tKeep your heart with all diligence, For out of it [spring] the issues of life.
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The Father exhorts his son to "give attention to my words..." "For they are life to those who find them,..." "Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life."

In like manner Jesus exhorted the Samaritan woman....

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Jhn 4:14\tbut whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."
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The Word of God, the Wisdom of God, has by His blood reconciled us to the Father. The Word of God, the Wisdom of God promises those who learn to walk in paths that He has established, these will experience a "life" they had not known before, and by this "life" we are saved.

Jhn 12:46\tI have come [as] a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 17, 2010

Pro 4:18\tBut the path of the just [is] like the shining sun, [fn] That shines ever brighter unto the perfect day.

The path of the just is like the shining sun, that shines ever brighter unto the perfect day. This precept speaks of a continued growth in righteousness because one continues to walk in the path of the just. Jesus who is our light declares that He has "come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness." We as believers are given all things in Christ Jesus our Lord. Yet there is a time of preparation in which our Savior prepares us for good works...

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Eph 2:10\tFor we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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Look to the last thought of the above verse, "... that we should walk in them."
This walk, again is the substance of how we are created, His workmanship in us that puts to death the old man's ways, the ways of darkness, and reveals to us the new way of walking. Jesus promised this to His disciples in the following verses....

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Jhn 13:3\tJesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God,

Jhn 13:4\trose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself.

Jhn 13:5\tAfter that, He poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe [them] with the towel with which He was girded.

Jhn 13:6\tThen He came to Simon Peter. And [Peter] said to Him, "Lord, are You washing my feet?"

Jhn 13:7\tJesus answered and said to him, "What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this."

Jhn 13:8\tPeter said to Him, "You shall never wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
.................................................................................................................

We can look to this event as an outward ritual that we are called to do on occasion. Yet if one follows beyond this outward event, Jesus goes on to describe the work of the Holy Spirit. For now, Jesus says to His disciples as He washes their feet, "What I am doing you do not understand now, but you will know after this." And then Jesus corrects Peter with this statement....

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"If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
................................................................................................................

Unless we submit to His washing of our feet we too will have no part with Him.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 21, 2010

Jhn 13:9\tSimon Peter said to Him, "Lord, not my feet only, but also [my] hands and [my] head!"

Jhn 13:10\tJesus said to him, "He who is bathed needs only to wash [his] feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean,..."
.......................................................................................................................

We see that Peter responds to the outward expression of Jesus's lesson on what He expects of His disciples. At this point Jesus is teaching His disciples in parable form. Jesus says to His disciples, "He who is bathed needs only to wash [his] feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean,...". Jesus declares that all but one of His disciples have a right standing before God. They have been washed clean in Spirit and truth. Yet these who stand before Jesus still need to have their feet cleaned by Him. Consider where we walk as those who have been justified by our Lord. Do we always walk in paths that are pleasing to Him? We are given many examples in the OT of men who were justified by grace through faith in God. If we look to Abraham's testimony we find that there are times where he walked in ways not pleasing to our Lord. If we look to the testimony of Jacob, we find that he too was taught by God to walk in paths of righteousness. Look to the example of Jonah. We are told that he walked away from God's call for him to preach to the city of Ninevah. We are continually given examples of God correcting His sons in the ways that they walk. As a son of God we too must allow Jesus to wash our feet. Jesus then points to the way in which He accomplishes this task...for He is our High Priest.

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Jhn 13:19\tNow I tell you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe that I am [He].

Jhn 13:20\tMost assuredly, I say to you, he who receives whomever I send receives Me; and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me."
...................................................................................................................

Jesus, while He is still among His disciples, seeks to teach them to look forward to the time where He will send the Holy Spirit to continue the work that He started amongst His disciples. Further along in this lesson Jesus says this to them....

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Jhn 14:25\t"These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.

Jhn 14:26\tBut the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
............................................................................................................

Again, a second time Jesus talks more plainly to them. And then below Jesus a fourth time, further reveals the nature of the work of the Holy Spirit that is promised to them.

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Jhn 16:8\tAnd when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:9\tof sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Jhn 16:10\tof righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;

Jhn 16:11\tof judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

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Look to these last three verses. Which verse applies to His disciples?

In Christ
Jeff

brodav9 Jan 23, 2010

I apologise I just wanted to get connected to the post thread. Last night when studying I saw something that connected to this thread.

In 1Jn. 5:16 we have a two person situation. the first we see a person who sins but not unto death. They are those who sin, but because of Jesus imputed righteousness, they are counted righteous still. That is because Jesus has taken place on the cross for all their sins. They are not righteous on their merits but his.

the second is a person who is a abuser of grace. They enjoy the world and it's evil pleasures, have a apostate mind, love to sin more that show thankfulness to God,

by their actions. Those actions are shown in 1Jn.2:15. righteousness imputed comes with a price, it is freely given but we are obligated to maintain it's worthiness. I repeat it is a free gift.

example --if I give you a free car, should you drive down the road over the speed limit and almost run over everybody. You see there's a responsibility that comes with this gift of righteousness. We are not puppets God wants a response, to him it shows our love for him and our thankfulness.

The sin unto death-- falling away is one who tells God by their life that he can basically have that gift back. read Heb.6:1 repentance from dead works, there is a variation of dead works, but if in a position to repent from dead works but not have the heart to repent--that is a position of refusal to obey God.

The first part of v.16 is wonderful, we can pray to God to restore a sinning member and God will honor a prayer of faith. James says the fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man (imputed and active) availeth much.

in 1Cor.5:5 God's grace is here identified by the church praying for a sexual offender by turning him over to Satan. Through those torments he would come back and repent. Let me ask a question. What if they don't pray for him. Why should they God will bring him back anyway. I don't think they would be asked by the Lord to pray if he was going to do it.

God was going to judge Moses very own sister. She didn't sin wickedly. The law required her death. there was no size to sin then. under law you die. Moses prayed for her and God gave mercy because of his prayer. He did chasten her but she lived.

Now under grace we still have to pray but it is because of imputed righteousness coupled with faith, we are in Jesus righteousness and our prayer is honored just as if Jesus was praying for that sinning member-- but it is not a sin unto death.

Rom.4:8 blessed is the person in whom the Lord will not impute sin.

rookie Jan 24, 2010

brodav9 wrote:

They enjoy the world and it's evil pleasures, have a apostate mind, love to sin more that show thankfulness to God,
by their actions. Those actions are shown in 1Jn.2:15. righteousness imputed comes with a price, it is freely given but we are obligated to maintain it's worthiness. I repeat it is a free gift.

When it can be said of one that "they enjoy the world and it's evil pleasures, have a apostate mind" it reminds me of Scriptures which speak to the fact that these individuals have not yet walked far enough along the path with our Lord. The 'carnal' mind is an apostate mind. We all come to Christ in like manner. We are reconciled to the Father through Christ's work on the cross. This is the free gift given to all who turn towards the Father through the work of the Holy Spirit. Once reconciled to the Father, we are given all things that are Christ's through the Holy Spirit. We are adopted into the kingdom of God and are co-heirs with Christ. Yet we still as new born babes still have a carnal mind. We know that God has done a work in us at this point. We know our hearts have been opened up in a way never known to us before. Yet we still do have yearnings for the things of the world.

God may have instantly healed us from a drug addiction or from anger, yet we still suffer from the law of sin and death. Thank God that there is no condemnation for those who take on Christ. All the things, the corruption that we suffered before Christ, are the things that we still are burdened with as we begin to walk with Christ. This corruption is the result of being under the law of sin and death. The manifestation of this corruption differs as much as there are people in this world. Only Christ, our wisdom, is able to loose these bonds of corruption that entangle us. This is where the work of Christ washing our feet from the things that are unclean, becomes the source and power of salvation. The work of the Holy Spirit is the yoke upon which Christ guides us along the path of righteousness.

If we listen to the Holy Spirit, we will learn to walk in ways that are pleasing to the Father. We over time, begin to grow in love with the Father because we actually begin to learn to love the truth that frees us from all our burdens. As we walk with our Savior's guidance, day by day we learn of a "life" that overcomes our former 'affections" for the things of this world. Day by day we learn to love God because of what He is working into our lives. Sometimes the daily lessons are not pleasant. But if we follow the Holy Spirit's prompting, we find the way in which we are to walk.

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Hbr 12:11\t Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
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Whether we are chastened or we are spoken to by the Holy Spirit, the product of this actions taken by God upon us is for this expressed purpose...that we experience "the peaceable fruit of righteousness." God's work upon us is that we actually learn Christ's righteousness. This work becomes the substance for which we hope for. This work of God teaches us His sons that He loves us. And the way He loves us far exceeds anything we ever have or ever will experience from this world. And as we learn how God actually day by day frees us from the bonds of this world, we then should in turn express this same kind of love to our brothers and sisters in Christ.

The first part of v.16 is wonderful, we can pray to God to restore a sinning member and God will honor a prayer of faith. James says the fervent effectual prayer of a righteous man (imputed and active) availeth much.

As Christ washes our feet, we likewise are called to wash each others feet. For the body of Christ has many members, each given various gifts of the Spirit in which we are to administer to each other. If we say we love our brother then we will do as Christ calls on us day by day, to serve each other. This is how Christ builds His church into a holy habitation. Whether by prayer, by exhortation, by a word of prophesy, by a help, by correction, Christ as He trained His disciples, we too are called to live in like manner.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 26, 2010

Jhn 16:8\tAnd when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:9\tof sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Jhn 16:10\tof righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;

Jhn 16:11\tof judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
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Jesus declares to His disciples that when the Holy Spirit comes, He will convict the world of sin, "because they do not believe in Me." Next, Jesus declares that the Holy Spirit will convict His disciples of righteousness. Jesus makes a distinction between those who believe in Him and those who don't.

Paul writes of this distinction also....

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1Ti 1:8\tBut we know that the law [is] good if one uses it lawfully,

1Ti 1:9\tknowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for [the] lawless and insubordinate, for [the] ungodly and for sinners,..."
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Concerning the righteous, Paul writes that the law was not made for those who believe in Christ. But the law was made for the lawless, the ungodly, and also for the insubordinate, the sinner. This theme is also declared in the following Psalm.....

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Psa 1:1\tBlessed [is] the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;

Psa 1:2\tBut his delight [is] in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.

Psa 1:3\tHe shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper.

Psa 1:4\tThe ungodly [are] not so, But [are] like the chaff which the wind drives away.

Psa 1:5\tTherefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

Psa 1:6\tFor the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish.
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The ungodly nor the sinners shall stand in the congregation of the righteous. For the Lord knows the way of the righteous. The work of the Holy Spirit condemns the ungodly as well as the sinner. The nature of this work is to point the unbeliever to Christ. But the work of the Holy Spirit upon those who do believe, those who have learned to listen, for these the Holy Spirit convicts them of righteousness. Again...

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Jhn 16:10\tof righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
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The work He started would continue through the promise of the Holy Spirit. Why did the Apostles need to be convicted of righteousness?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 30, 2010

Jhn 16:8\tAnd when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:9\tof sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Jhn 16:10\tof righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
...................................................................................................................

The work of the Holy Spirit convicts those who do not believe in Christ of sin. And for those who do believe, who are justified, the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness.

Holy Spirit> convicts non-believers of sin.

Holy Spirit> convicts believers of righteousness.

Do you see that when one confesses Christ, and that His blood reconciles us to the Father, that this is only the beginning of a new life. Born of the Spirit, as babes in Christ, it is God's workmanship upon the vessel beforehand for good works. We as new born sons of God, adopted into the kingdom of God, still are without knowledge and understanding. We still are subject to our carnal minds. It is not God's intent that we continue to live in this state. We know this to be true because Jesus told His disciples that the Holy Spirit would "convict" them of righteousness.

What does it mean when God "convicts" the believer of righteousness? Why does the believer need to be convicted since he has been justified by the blood of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Jan 31, 2010

Holy Spirit> convicts non-believers of sin.
Holy Spirit> convicts believers of righteousness.

Paul writes about this very subject and how it applies to his life.

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Phl 3:8\tYet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

Paul's desire for himself is that he "may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having" his "own righteousness, which is from the law." The law is intended to teach men what sin is. The law teaches men what they should not do according to the weakness of the flesh. The law does not teach men how to please God, because the written word without the Holy Spirit only condemns.

One will find that there are many who profess Christ yet have not been known by Christ. These have maybe continued for years listening to other men. Years are spent reading many books. Yet they find themselves without power, without thirst for the things of Christ. They struggle in their own flesh. They learn as the pharisee of Jesus' day to condemn others for not living according to the law. They heap burdens on the heads of those who would listen to them. Legalism grows strong in these who choose to live according to the law of God. This is a natural outcome for those who have not found that they must seek a righteousness that comes only from Christ.

Paul continues....

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Phl 3:10\tthat I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
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The work of the Holy Spirit, for those who believe, is that He would convict us of Jesus' righteousness. Paul's greatest desire is that the Holy Spirit would continue to reveal to him the "power of His resurrection." Paul is praying that his heart would grow in likeness with that of His Savior. It is this 'life" that overcomes the world. It is this 'Life" that saves us from the wrath of God. It is this "life" that should be our life if we consider each day as the day of salvation.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Feb 7, 2010

Paul's desire for himself is that he "may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having" his "own righteousness, which is from the law." The law is intended to teach men what sin is. The law teaches men what they should not do according to the weakness of the flesh. The law does not teach men how to please God, because the written word without the Holy Spirit only condemns.

Paul writes that his heart's desire is that his fellow jews would be saved.

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Rom 10:1\tBrethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel [fn] is that they may be saved.

Rom 10:2\tFor I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.
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Paul testifies that these who are not saved do have a zeal for God. Yet zeal without knowledge still falls short of God's way of saving men that are lost. Listen for Paul's diagnosis of their plight.

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Rom 10:3\tFor they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
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The knowledge that these people lack is the substance described as "God's righteousness." Paul states that those who seek to obey the law according to their flesh "have not submitted to the righteousness of God."

What does Paul mean when he points to the fact that they "have not submitted to the righteousness of God?

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Feb 8, 2010

Quote:

""What does Paul mean when he points to the fact that they "have not submitted to the righteousness of God?""

Have not submitted to the knowledge of the Christ that is in them. He is our righteousness, He is our life while we are in this world, He will be our life and righteousness throughout all eternity. That is why Paul says we are being made into the image of Christ, He is our righteousness, sanctification, justification and redemption.

"Christ in you the hope of Glory", "The life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God," "to be found in Christ not having my own righteousness"; Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

With us in Christ, it is sure that Christ is in us. You cannot put a sock in the water without the water being in the sock. You cannot put us in Christ without Christ being birthed and born again in us.

In Christ: Phillip

rookie Feb 13, 2010

"Christ in you the hope of Glory", "The life I now live, I live by the faith of the Son of God," "to be found in Christ not having my own righteousness"; Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Yes Phillip, I posted this thought about two posts ago.

You cannot put us in Christ without Christ being birthed and born again in us.

According to Scripture, Christ is not "born again in us." But it is by the Holy Spirit which empowers us to be adopted as co-heirs with Christ. Once adopted, we too are given the power to know the mind of Christ. Once adopted, we too are given the light which gives us an understanding of what Christ commands us to do. Once adopted, we still have a choice. Do we obey His voice or do we neglect that voice. The righteousness of Christ is imputed day by day if we choose to listen. The carnal mind does not have the capability to know Christ's righteousness. Only by the Holy Spirit are we given understanding of Christ's righteousness. Only those who thirst for Christ's righteousness will be filled.

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Mat 5:6\tBlessed [are] those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, For they shall be filled.
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In the above Scripture, Jesus points to this fact, that those who thirst and hunger for righteousness, know that they themselves want to gain something they in themselves do not have. These already know that only Christ can satisfy this hunger. These already know that one day of bread is not enough.

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Feb 14, 2010

Quote:

"""According to Scripture, Christ is not "born again in us." """

Then who is?

What does born mean? There must be a Father and there must be seed of the Father.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

corruptible seed, there is no permanent, enduring life produced by that incorruptible seed. It is in this sense that this is spoken of as "corruptible seed," because it results in decay and death. The word here rendered seed--spora--occurs nowhere else in the New Testament.

Incorruptible seed, But of incorruptible. By truth, communicating a living principle to the soul which can never decay. Comp. 1Jo 3:9: "His seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Seed: Strong's Greek Dictionary
4701. spora
Search for G4701 in KJVSL
spora spora spor-ah'
from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage:--seed.

Without the Spirit of Christ being born again in us by the
Incorruptible Seed of the Father, we are none of His.

The Spirit of Christ is not the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Christ is the Author and Finisher of our Faith. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher of this Truth.

We are the offspring of God, you cannot be an offspring without having a Father, this Father is not an earthly father but a Heavenly Father who has birthed the Spirit of His Son in the believer, again, this is not the Holy Spirit.

Ac 17:28 For in Him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring.
Ac 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Not earthly, but, "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God," which is Heavenly, not of this earth, that is Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Christ in you; Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Corinthians 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

2 Corinthians 13:3-5 Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you. For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you. Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

And so many more, it would take up more than this post allows.

That we are offspring and sons; Philippians 2:15-16 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

We are lights, we have life, we shine, we hold forth the Word of Life, we are sons, not running in vain, the only way this can be accomplished is in Christ and By The Logos Himself born again in us in us by the Seed of our Father.

The only life I now live is by the Life of the Son of God whom the Father has birthed in us, being born again of this Incorruptable Seed which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Who lives in us?

This is the mystery Paul speaks about in all his epistles:

We are perfect to the Father by His Son that is in us.

Christ in us the Hope of Glory: Phillip

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