it is a vile sin of the flesh, just like sex outside marriage or addiction or anything else. i speak from experience as one who used to swim in gluttony and am still tempted daily by it.
i want to know why we don't speak more on this.
why are there obese men preaching/leading churches? if they cheated on their wives, they'd be disciplined. if they showed up drunk, they'd be disciplined.
i'm very sad about this. can anyone explain this?
We have been conditioned to believe that it's not that bad because it's not that offensive to others. Adultery, fornication, homosexuality, those are all bad sins, according to our thinking. But compulsive eating is near the bottom of the list of bad sins. The next one up from that is a little white lie.I want to know why we don't speak more on this.
That is just the way we think. I mean I am talking to the choir, I love food. I am a bread connoisseur. I love grain breads, and cinnamon rolls, Oh man, talk about delicious. I mean it's been along time since I've been on an extensive fast and by looking at me you would think that I have never fasted. :-P But that time is coming.
I have met more overweight Pentecostals than any other fundamentalist group. I think we have this eating disorder is because it's replacing another addiction. When we stop smoking or delivered from it, what do we tend to do? Eat! Not just eat, but eat like there is no tomorrow. No excuse mind you.
i want to know why we don't speak more on this.
We can be thin and still gluttons.
Some sins are more serious than others.
Gluttony is " lower" on the scale.
So I would recommend that you could start a ministry or newsletter.
However, I would also recommend you pray for wisdom so that you don't create a new law or legalism
I've wondered the same thing for a long time. I was a professing Christian who used to smoke. It was something I struggled with and wanted to quit doing but just would not actually do what I needed to do to stop. It used to make me so mad to see some morbidly obese preacher yell at me, or anyone, that I should not smoke when they needed help walking up the platform. I'd go out and smoke 2 at a time. I saw a very well known evangelist, who often preached against smoking, sit in a tex-mex restaurant and eat bowls of queso (melted cheese) with a spoon. What is the difference in the two? Nothing except that one is accepted in the church and the other isn't. Now, I don't smoke anymore, and I surely don't think it's ok. But neither do I think that gluttony is ok either.
Everything is important, and anything can be a sin. We must preach against it all. If it's a sin we must confront it.
That being said I think the biggest issue in the Church is not smoking, drinking, gluttony, or any of the "big" sins. The biggest issue with the Church is apathy. If someone is living in what we know to be sin it is our job to confront it in a loving yet firm way. It just may be that they do not realize it is, in fact, a sin. May we be like Paul who saw it his job 'to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'(Acts 26:18) There is a lot that Christians are turning a blind eye to, gluttony certainly being one of them.
Just because you see a large person it does not mean they are guilty of the sin of gluttony. I know of a older lady who has hypothyroid problems, and even with medication and diet she is unable to drop off the weight. At the same time I know several extremely thin people who over eat, never gain any weight and then go on to brag about it. Not all over weight people eat because they are gluttonous or even like food. For many there are under lying issue of sin that must be dealt with that does not even actually involve food. I know for many its hard to stop smoking, or drinking but dieing to a food addiction is just as difficult. Its not as if you can just stop eating altogether, you have to still eat. As someone who has struggled with eating disorder I can tell you that the pressure from the world to be thin and the obsession with being thin is just as sinful and deadly as gluttony is. The focus needs to be on Christ and doing all things unto Him, even when it comes to what we eat or how much we eat.
God Bless
mj
Maybe they are just big boned.?.? 8-)
it's a lack of understanding and preaching of the cross of Christ beloved...overindulging the flesh (Rom 13:14 says make no provision for it at all) is wrong. But in order to overcome it we need the power of the Holy Spirit and so few are willing to or recognize the need to tarry in His Presence to get this power to overcome. Remember, in Philp 3:18-19 Paul warned them about those who were enemies of the Cross of the Christ, whose god was their bellies-and that word for bellies (which is figurative for the heart (Jer 17:9-which is desperately wicked and deceitful above all things)..but beloved, in order to so throughly deny self we must see Someone or something we desire more...and only the Holy Spirit can so show us Christ. This is the hardest truth in the Christian life. It must be ministered only under the direction of the Spirit..To better understand this, I would highly recommend reading [url=http://timnkat1.tripod.com/id175.html]The Pathway To An Overcoming Life-BH Clendennen
Remember, the body of the believer is the temple, the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. The body is merely to serve the life of the Lord Jesus Christ on the inside. That body Mary gave Jesus was used to serve the life and purpose of the Father..and as He was in the world so are we to be. How desperately we need the Holy Spirit, beloved.
Pun intended? :-PThat being said I think the 'biggest' issue in the Church is not smoking,
Pun intended? :-P
DeepThinker wrote:That being said I think the 'biggest' issue in the Church is not smoking,
growingholly wrote:
it is a vile sin of the flesh, just like sex outside marriage or addiction or anything else. i speak from experience as one who used to swim in gluttony and am still tempted daily by it.i want to know why we don't speak more on this.
why are there obese men preaching/leading churches? if they cheated on their wives, they'd be disciplined. if they showed up drunk, they'd be disciplined.
i'm very sad about this. can anyone explain this?
That statement is SO TRUE about anything reformed! Reformed overeaters are the worst... Reformed drug addicts are the worst... that is until hopfully we see that it was ultimately God who opened our eyes and delivered us. I maybe wrong but I see it as the "control freak" inside of me!! Trying to control everyone around me and force feed the truth to them!! LOL I am NOT talking about you! I am talking about me! The Lord has to deal with me DAILY on these control freak issues I have
Here is what I've been listening to for two days... Zac Poonen, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=8177&commentView=itemComments]Learning to be Content
And let's pray for those whose eyes haven't been opened yet!
God bless you growing holly!!
I was doing some thinking while reading Lysa's post and thought I'd share them and see how far this goes. The topic is gluttony, perhaps we should take it a step further in looking at it from a spiritual angle. We should look at all of the word of God in the Spirit and not in the letter.
Gluttony is one who has gathered in truth but hide it in unrighteousness. They hold it in and then they bloat with pride. He eats knowledge but is very stingy in giving to others. He is not just one who eats from his own plate, but devours portions from others. They take others wisdom and show it openly taking the glory for themselves.
The Christian who is a glutton may not be as cold as what I have described. But consider the mind set of these people when it comes to sharing. They hold back the best and give you what they don't want.
For example we used to have a drop in centre in the inner city and the public would drop off clothes and what have you to help with the poor etc. etc.. The church ladies would sort through the clothes and take all the best ones and the rest was to be given to the poor. I'd watch this every time they'd get in a new shipment of used clothes. The glutton take their portion and crumbs that fall from the masters table is given to the poor.
That is why Jesus said, "Give and it shall be given to you". We don't follow this principle out of duty, we follow it by love, because faith worketh by love. If we follow it by duty we will always be charging God with folly because we will not be seeing the pay back, but if by love, we won't care if we ever get anything, love doesn't look for gain.
But to the glutton, he cares because he is not operating by love, but by the flesh and his selfish desires. The Church in the wilderness sought meat for they were sick of the manna, they were sick of eating Christ. So God gave them quails so much so they were stuffing themselves silly and it was even coming out of their nostrils, which meant they were trying to be satisfied and couldn't, so they kept on eating and eating. Does not a glutton do the same thing?
Now I am not talking about those that have a medical condition like Mary Jane was talking about. I am talking spiritually.
Deep Thinker said,
Gluttony is one who has gathered in truth but hide it in unrighteousness. They hold it in and then they bloat with pride. He eats knowledge but is very stingy in giving to others. He is not just one who eats from his own plate, but devours portions from others. They take others wisdom and show it openly taking the glory for themselves.
Addiction and self indulgence is shrinking back from faith. It is choosing to turn to something other than God for comfort. It is an attempt to flee from suffering and deliver oneself. When we smoke that first cigarette,etc, it seems like a small thing, but then we have another and another and then, before long, we are a slave to it. Satan laughs. He loves to flaunt his power over us. He goes before God and makes his accusations. He thinks he can manipulate God!
Bottom line...faith is agreement with God and everything else is sin! I just read an article before visiting SI called, "How To Know If You're Having An Emotional Affair". It had a list of about 6 or 7 statements/questions. If you said yes to at least 2, you're having an emotional affair. I believe it was accurate in that assessment. We can all ask ourselves one simple question and, if we can bring ourselves to be honest with ourselves (and that's a big "if) we will know the truth and be well on our way to deliverance...the question is..."Would Jesus do what I'm doing?...and do I want him to watch me?"
I've often wondered why there are so many obese preachers. I don't listen to them. And this thing about a "medical condition"...I don't lend any credence to that, either, cause if you put folks somewhere and restrain them from eating, they lose weight...every, single time! It's true that some folks can eat more than others and not gain weight. The whole "metabolism" thing is true, but we can all adjust our eating habits to accomodate our metabolism. Self control is still a fruit of the Spirit, and the key word here is "Spirit". You can't display the fruit if you are detached from the vine...[i]5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
So now, I'm back to where I started...
-Deep ThinkerGluttony is one who has gathered in truth but hide it in unrighteousness. They hold it in and then they bloat with pride. He eats knowledge but is very stingy in giving to others. He is not just one who eats from his own plate, but devours portions from others. They take others wisdom and show it openly taking the glory for themselves.
Then I would have to judge myself as not being a believer. And if truth be told most of us are not either. Few recognize they are dead with Christ and the rest of us are struggling to come to knowledge of that truth.This is caused by not being a real believer,
This past summer I had tipped the scales and they don't even have numbers like that on a digital scale, I have to get on a manual, self adjusting. So I was overboard and the LORD told me in dream that If I stuck to the diet that I was on and exercised I'd be alright. That went on for a little while and then slowly but surely I went right back up to those heavier numbers. The LORD led me to a website that talked about surrendering our lives to Him. We've all heard the same message over and over again. But this time it wasn't the same message, I actually got instructions as I was reading the article. It was just coming to me by revelation and it was so simple. I realized that I had to give this part of my life over to Him. And not just this part but the whole kit and caboodle. Little by little the land is possessed, here a little there a little.
The other night I felt led to read Watchman Nee's book entitled, "The Normal Christian Life". I got this book quite a few years ago and just put it on the shelf, at the time I was into other things and I simply couldn't read it. But last night I read something that made me cry and shout for joy at the same time. I want to share these words with you all:
"Most of us can remember the day when we saw clearly that Christ died for us, and we ought to be equally clear as to the time when we saw that we died with Christ. It should be nothing hazy, but very definite, for it is with this as a basis that we shall go on. It is not that I reckon myself to be dead, and therefore I will be dead. It is that, BECAUSE I AM DEAD! Because I see now what God has done with me in Christ. Therefore I reckon myself to be dead. That is the right kind of reckoning. It is not reckoning[i]toward[/i] death but[i]from[/i] death.
Now I haven't the full revelation on this death issue, but by George I will.
For years we have cuddled and cradled our indulgence. We say things like, "I am going through some thing right now and that is the reason why I am doing such and such". It all boils down to this one thing, do I see myself as dead with Christ? Not quoting scriptures to prove that I am dead, but rather, am I dead? There is a difference. When temptation comes, I try to convince myself that I am dead, why do I need to convince myself of a fact?
Gluttony is a result of giving into temptation multiple times. I give into temptation because I want it. Afterwards we condemn ourselves because the results were bittersweet and not satisfying. Oh we were glad to eat that first spoonful of Ice cream or that fat laden piece of Kentucky Fried Chicken, but after we are finished we feel the emptiness that that did not satisfy. So we run back to the LORD and how He puts up with us is beyond my comprehension. And we make silly vows that we have not the power to keep.
But let us pray for the revelation of being dead with Christ. Knowing it as a living reality.
Greetings
I have been thinking about this and I was wondering for those that look at a large person and automatically see sin of gluttony, what about the person who is skin and bones, do you look at them and automatically think obsessive behavior(anorexia) about eating as sin too?
Just wondering
God bless
maryjane
well, firstly, we can't assume that every large person is a glutton. but many are walking in this. and also we can see a skin-and bones person, and we can't assume they are anorexic, the reality of what they some are doing is present on their faces, etc. but God made some people skinny, and that glorified Him in them.
it's really more of a question about the bottom line, which is: is God in charge, or me? am i honoring Him with my body, or am i thinking about what the world or my flesh says is ok? i think any body-obsession is sinful, because it is an obsession of self. this can be gluttony, anorexia, and a whole range of others. i worked with some women last year who had several eating disorders and saw the destruction in their lives having been wrought by the devil's twisted works of control gone horribly wrong. i've struggled with many different eating-related sins over my life, and really it came down to me trying to decide things that God's Word clearly spoke on. in a way, i think that anorexia is a form of gluttony, because it is an indulgence of self. there is also emotional starvation and emotional gluttony, these are not good either. (unwillingness to be vulnerable among the saints, inappropriate close relationships, etc.). only God should control us. in Galatians, when He shows us that self-control is a fruit of the Spirit, i believe that is a Biblical self-control, not a self-obsession. self-control in the Godly sense means death to self and a reality of living that knows and shows God is in control. self-control in the unGodly sense means that i, in my own strength, need to control things outside of God's control. i know what is beautiful, i don't trust God to make a man find me beautiful, i think God didn't make me right, etc. or i am upset so i'll turn to food instead of praying and crying out to the Lord. i love food, so i'll eat indulgently...see what i mean? it means me taking the control and telling God how He should have run the universe instead of obeying with self-control,still under the leadership of the Holy Spirit. so whether that is overeating or undereating, we are rejecting God's perfect plan for our bodies being a living sacrifice and that's really where the issue lies. will we trust Him to teach us how to eat, or will we lean on our own understanding?
that said, i do have compassion for these groups, the same as i have compassion for anyone, and perhaps more so because the churches are not speaking on this, so you have a whole lot of confused people. (granted, everyone is responsible to be reading the Word prayerfully, and God is faithful to convict when He is sought. but still). i have a fully experiential knowledge of these struggles, so i know what it is like. but i do think that churches should address these issues for what they really are, which boils down to a refusal to trust God in all things.
granted, we all have things the Lord is bringing us through. oh, may we throw down our reigns and beg at His feet for mercy!! none of us is perfect. :)
please know this was written with love and compassion. i just think it is really under-addressed.
love you all.
I met so many people that fall into this category Mary Jane. And yes, they can be just as gluttonous. So I am not just picking on what we see with our eyes size wise. God knoweth.what about the person who is skin and bones
I think I said it in another thread that it's so easy for us to judge the external that we clean miss what is truly going on in a man's heart. We don't see the outward things but he may be a fornicator or glutton at heart, but because we don't see those things we advance these people in places they ought not to be, that is probably why we are reaping a harvest of Pastors and Priests falling by the way side in sin and unbelief.
And I do agree with you regarding the medical condition. It is true that if your thyroid is out of whack, it can be really hard to lose weight and it's discouraging that when someone especially women who eat anything nutritional and then exercise they tend to add more weight then take off.
And only faith in God can stabilize it.
Now, that doesn't mean we should justify our obesity because of a medical condition. Obesity is deadly and we should be doing something to get rid of it. If all we can do is pray, then lets pray that God take control over this situation and move toward a healthier lifestyle. God is for health, He is for us when it comes to living long on this earth. He doesn't feed our spirit and neglect our soul and body. He is truly a Father and provider and He is not an infidel, He truly is a family Man that cares for His own.
i had a question, also: someone had posted about some sins being lower on the scale...can you show me that in the Word? I have seen in Scripture that sin is sin and all are vile against such a perfect God. all our sins defile the precious Blood. i don't mean to be rude or anything, please don't take it that way! :)
and yes, i agree about the medical condition also. if it is truly the case. but many doctors today are saying someone has a condition, but it is often resultant of unGodly eating habits/laziness. so if it really a medical condition, then that is outside the person, but God can heal them if he wants to.
That would have been me and no it's not in the word. However, it's how we think that puts that sin at the bottom because we don't think of it as bad. I know it doesn't matter about what we think about gluttony not being in the top ten major sins, but that is simply the way we have come to deal with certain sins.i had a question, also: someone had posted about some sins being lower on the scale...can you show me that in the Word?
Greetings
Thank you holly and thinker for your replies. I agree that any kind of over/under eating does come down to a desire to be in control of your own life, to make your own choices and decisions, instead of letting God be in control. I know that eating disorders of any kind are not really addressed at all in the church. I think that is because many do not see this as sin in a persons life. The world tells us that thin is beautiful and that fat is ugly, and in some cases the church goes right along with this notion.
In both gluttony and eating disorders their must be a dying of self and a desire to submit ones will unto the Lord. We must be willing to submit our whole life unto Him, when we eat, how much we eat, sleep, work, play, ect... If Jesus is to be Lord of my life it must be my entire life not just those parts I am willing to surrender. It does not work that way.
DeepThinker: I can appreciate what you said in your earlier post about your struggle with weight loss. I have been heavy at times in my life but I will admit that I struggle more right now with eating and making my self sick then I do with over eating. I still at times struggle with dying to self in this area. I know that I need to walk daily with Jesus and stay very close to Him other wise those old thought patterns about what I should look like come creeping back in. I give thanks to Jesus though for His love and mercy, He carries me through even those darkest of times. When my focus remains on Him, I know that anything is possible. I will be praying for you and ask that if you feel led pray for me to.
Holly: can I ask you as a young woman do you ever have struggles with just completely closing out those voices in the world around you that scream you must have a certain look, you must be young, thin, sexy, beautiful?? You must dress a certain way? I know that there is pressure on men in this as well but I do really believe it is more so for women. For me there are times when I will admit it really is difficult especially when it comes from inside the church. I actually sat through a teaching once given on how it was the wife duty to her husband to be appealing and look good just so her husband would not be tempted to stray else where. What a guilt trip to lay on someone, if your husband strays its your fault because you did not spend enough time trying to be skinny and beautiful. How unfair, I mean really aging and the degeneration of the body itself sets us up to fail in this task.
Sorry about the rant, just some things that have been on my heart recently. In these days it is so vital that we look to Him to show us who we are to be and not the world!!
God Bless
mj
growingholly wrote:
i had a question, also: someone had posted about some sins being lower on the scale...can you show me that in the Word? I have seen in Scripture that sin is sin and all are vile against such a perfect God. all our sins defile the precious Blood. i don't mean to be rude or anything, please don't take it that way! :)
John 19:11
With care in Christ...
to my sweet, wonderful, dear, BEAUTIFUL MaryJane...i was so sad to read you had been taught like that, wow...i'm so sorry. wow. i totally have experienced that also. it is horrid. oh, for Godly men to stand up and see Godliness as beauty!! i know many on this site do, and i love that!! :) dear, dear MaryJane...you are so lovely! i know it as your sister. :)
taylor: thank you so much! much love to you. but it seems from the text in john's gospel that Christ was comparing pilate and judas, no? judas was guilty of a greater sin because he knew Jesus and pilate did not...to me, in that chapter it is like when one of us sins versus someone sinning who does not know the Lord. both are sin, yes, but our sins are worse because we truly know Who it is we choose to sin against. while every man knows sin is sin, we have a much keener understanding. judas had walked with Jesus 3 years at that point. pilate just thought He was some guy that happened upon some drama involving the jews. therefore judas was guilty of a greater sin. i say this with a heavy heart as i think upon my own sin. i do hope not to be disrespectful, hopefully you know that i hold you in high regard! :) but that seems the issue in that passage. (i think of peter's (?) letter later when he is talking about trampling the Blood underfoot, continuing in sin). God help us all...wow, just writing these words is so convicting...let us lift one another up continually.
just thinking on this today...i fully believe a wife should look amazing for her husband. behind closed doors. :) there just isn't any reason for any OTHER man to know her body features. men were designed by God to be visual, and that is beautiful in relation to the marriage bed. but if a clergy member tells his congregants that women should show off their beauty in public, he's quite wrong.
love you all, you are all beautiful to me! :)
hi,cause we get hungry...have to eat... thirsty dont have to drink booze...broke dont have to steal...embarassed dont have to lie...successful dont have to brag.jimp
i had a question, also: someone had posted about some sins being lower on the scale...can you show me that in the Word?
I am jumping in here not having read the entire thread...but would like to comment on this quote.
Check out 1 Corinthians 6:18 and read it in its context. This verse would indicate that some sins are more difficult to repent from then others and harder to deal with. Observation agrees.
Just thought I would throw this is for your consideration.
ginnyrose
After posting this I thought that an explantion might be in order...
As many of your know I have worked at a CPC for many years. Most of our clients were adulterers and fornicators. We learned a lot from them and for that I am grateful: it reinforces the validity of the WORD.
We also learned things that were not in our training manuals nor were they things one sees often and this bring me to one incident I personally encountered.
I had a client who was shacking with a male that was heavily involved in the occult. Trust me: she shared this info in detail. Anyhow, she stank like something awful! It smelled up the whole place. She was not a dirty person nor a filthy one. It was unlike anything we/I had ever encountered. Upon further investigation, we learned that having sex with someone who is possessed with demons [i]could
Just thought I would share this insight - this has nothing to do with gluttony, I know; it has to do with some sins being worse then others. In the sight of God sis is sin but some are harder to repent from and live in victory then others.
Blessings,
ginnyrose
Having read this thread, while reading in the Gospel of Luke today, this stood out to me.
Luke 10:7 & 8
from Matthew Henry's Commentary "Be not nice and curious in your diet: Eat and drink such things as they give (v. 7), such things as are set before you, v. 8. Be thankful for plain food, and do not find fault, though it be not dressed according to art." It ill becomes Christ's disciples to be desirous of dainties. As he has not tied them up to the Pharisees' superstitious fasts, so he has not allowed the luxurious feasts of the Epicureans. Probably, Christ here refers to the traditions of the elders about their meat which were so many that those who observed them were extremely critical, you could hardly set a dish of meat before them, but there was some scruple or other concerning it; but Christ would not have them to regard those things, but eat what was given them, asking no question for conscience' sake.
I have been giving this much thought lately, since my husband has been diagnosed with diabetes. It seems the 'simpler' the meal the less carbs and the healthier it is.
Most food offered to the poor from Food Pantries is 100% carbohydrates/sugar.
For a time in our lives we had no choice but to live upon biscuits & applebutter or pancakes and syrup. It was cheap and filled the belly. After a few months on this 'starvation' diet some people who had seen us before then saw the new, fattened, version and commented, 'Well, at least we know you haven't been starving.' How sad that comment made me feel and I thought of the scripture, 'having eyes they do not see.' I try to not judge people by their size for that reason.
white stone
Awesome post White_stone!
Thank you for sharing this, really touched my heart:-)
In Him
wind_blows
you're right there is a double standard in christianity because we deal with people.
It shouldn't be that way. And a sin should be a sin.
What are some things we can do about this so that we're not one of those guys that are just convicted and don't do anything about it.
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