Protecting Possessions

[b]Protecting Possessions[/b]

Our adversary, the Devil, stands before the Father continually accusing the brethren of their sin. The blood of Jesus Christ covers us only insomuch as we stand in agreement with Him. If we deny that we have sinned, we are not covered by the blood in that sin. Accordingly, if we deny the Divinity of Christ in any area, it is in that area that Satan is allowed to have full reign. This is why it is essential that we surrender all to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Anything that we do not surrender is subject to attack from the enemy for he knows that we are not covered in that thing by the very fact that we have not given it to the Lord and therefore he can prevail. This can be anything from love of food, to love of family, to love of our freedom.

We have absolutely no hope of standing against the enemy in our own strength. If we think we can, it is because we have been blinded by the enemy. Satan is a spirit. He is invisible and is capable of affecting the minds of all of mankind. We are but mere human beings – our only hope is in Jesus Christ.

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

Our adversary, the devil walketh about, seeking whom he may devour. When we take ourselves out from under the covering of our Lord, we subject ourselves to the wiles of Satan. We put ourselves in agreement with the enemy who is then able to direct our steps. He can lure and control us by that thing that we have not surrendered - that thing that we are holding onto as if it were our own.

Our God is a sovereign God. He is in control of all of our circumstances. All that we have is at His good pleasure and all is truly His. It is when we desire to possess something, or someone, that the problem arises. When we are unwilling to let go of something that the Lord requires, we are in essence saying that we love that thing more than the Lord. We are telling Him that we do not trust that He is watching out for our best interest. We are telling Him we know best. We are telling Him that we would rather be our own god. It is here that we are choosing the creature over the Creator, and it is here that we turn our backs on God, for it is that which we love that will be our master - and we can not serve two masters. This is also where we choose Satan for he is the prince of the world and all that it contains.

Dear HeartSong,

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

When David fought Goliath to defeat him because of his insults against God, was it because he did not trust God to deal with the situation? When the Jews stood guarding the walls with their swords as they rebuilt Jerusalem, was it because they did not trust God? When Esther and Mordecai went before the king to save the Jews, was it because they had no faith in God? When the Apostles Paul and Barnabas went forth to preach the gospel, was it because they did not trust God to accomplish this?

No! On the contrary, all these actions are/were done by faith and in obedience to God's teaching. Are we not instructed by the Lord in Scripture to do all the things that he commands?

[i]Isa 58:6-9 [color=CC3300]“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and [b]not to turn away from your own flesh and blood[/b]? Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color]

1Ti 5:8 [color=CC3300]If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.[/color]

Isa 1:17 [color=CC3300]"learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow."[/color]

Pr 31:8-9 [color=CC3300]“Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy."[/color]

Jas 2:14-17 [color=CC3300]"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, 'Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,' but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."[/color][/i]

I'm sorry to contradict you HeartSong, but your concept of having faith in God is simply not Biblical, and that short dialogue with God that you presented is a product of your imagination. God is not interested in drama (fasting, burnt offerings, phylacteries, etc.), he wants living faith proven by active obedience.

Our faith is proven by our action. Unless specifically directed by God otherwise, lack of action by a Christian when such action is clearly needed to help others is a sign of dead faith (Jas 2:17).

Dear Leo_Grace & HeartSong,

A very thought provoking thread. When I read the first post to my husband he did not agree. as Leo did not. He pointed out that we installed deadbolts on our doors, not because we did not trust God but to be prudent. God gave us the wisdom to know we should not tempt Him. We live in a neighborhood full of drug users. A door that was so unprotected would be an open invitation. We are aware that if they truly wanted inside they would break a window. We do what we are allowed to do and trust God for all. We feel He provided the means of buying and installing those deadbolts, it was not through our own strength.

It is marvelous how well He cares for us, of course, to the worldly people we appear poverty stricken. That makes me smile, for I know how rich we are in Jesus. Praise His wonderful Name.

white stone

This is a true story that I thought I should post in relation to the thoughts on this thread. It happened about 20 years ago:

[i]A middle-aged Christian named Danny belonged to a large church that he attended with many other fellow Christians on a regular basis. At the end of each Sunday service, Danny, together with dozens of his brothers in the church, would ride the public bus, Bibles in hand, for the ride home. Danny was a small man, short of stature and scrawny, and his brothers from the church were relatively bigger and well-built physically.

One Sunday, on the bus ride home from church, a non-believer took the same bus and started picking on little Danny. The bully insulted and derided Danny verbally, punched his thighs, slapped him in the back of his head a few times, all the while making fun of his Protestant faith. Danny took in all of this abuse without fighting back. He knew that as a Christian he was to exercise forbearance and humility in the face of an attack on his person. Danny did not hate the bully for the man was not of the faith, and was acting out of ignorance. What did disturb Danny immensely was the fact that there were dozens of able-bodied Christian "brothers" with him on that bus who wouldn't lift a finger to help him. Some of them simply averted their gaze while others (he found out later) prayed that God would intervene in Danny's behalf while they themselves did nothing.

Danny was deeply impacted by the event, not by what the bully did, but by what his "brothers" did not do. Danny was extremely disappointed that so many Christians on the bus, who openly professed a new life in Christ, were unwilling, when the opportunity arose, to "lay down their lives for their friend" (Jn 15:13). Danny said that if it was someone else being attacked, he would have gladly given his life in defense of that friend.[/i]

He shared this experience with a Christian leader who then shared it with us.

We are called to be the salt and the light of the earth -- to bring glory to God that others may praise him and draw near. When we fail to act, the salt has lost its saltiness... (Mt 5:13-16)

Dear DT,

I acknowledge the possibility (though I think it unlikely) of your interpretation of the event. It is possible that God instructed those dozens of able-bodied Christians to just sit still and let Danny be beat up.

However, in the face of the following clear commands by Christ himself:

[i]Jn 13:34-35 [color=CC3300]“A new command I give you: Love one another. [b]As I have loved you, so you must love one another[/b]. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”[/color]

Jn 14:15 [color=CC3300]“If you love me, you will obey what I command."[/color]

Jn 15:12-14 [color=CC3300][b]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends[/b]. You are my friends if you do what I command."[/color][/i]

Is it right to just ignore these commands of Jesus, and instead of taking immediate action, to pray for other commands?

Greetings Leo

These brothers in Christ could just as easily stood up and placed themselves in the path of this attacker, shielding Danny and allowing the blows to fall upon themselves with out ever fighting back and I believe they would have demonstrated their love for both Jesus and their brother by doing so??

Just a thought
God bless
maryjane

Dear MaryJane,

You are right. Maybe it would have been unnecessary to take any blows at all. Bullies are basically cowards who pick on the weak because they cannot defend themselves. If even one or two of these "brothers" had stood up in Danny's defense, I believe the beating would have ended without need for further action.

It was their willingness to defend Danny that was the issue here. If they had all simply stood up in protest (dozens of them), that bully would have left the bus with a palpable respect for Christian "brotherhood".

In Christ,
Leo

Edit: P.S. thank you for sharing too, DT.

DeepThinker wrote:
I realize your intention of posting that true story, so I don't want to take that away.

What do you think could have been done?

I know that If I was Danny I would have taken it because I have been beat up several times and I just took it. I hope you understand the angle to which I am coming at this. I am not short like Danny, I am tall over 6 feet, but when someone is hitting me, like Danny I just let them hit me. Whether there be Christians or not, I wouldn't be looking at them for my help. Our help cometh from the LORD.

I can and will accept Danny's and yours interpretation of this story. I was just sharing mine.

Thanks for sharing it.

8-)

Danny did accept the beating without fighting back, for he understood as you do that this is the way of a Christian in matters of personal affront. The burden that was laid on his heart was regarding the actions of brothers who were watching all these. He wasn't looking to them for help for himself; he was looking to them for obedience to the teachings of Christ.

As a result of this experience, Danny took lessons in the martial arts -- not to defend himself, but to be able to defend others. He was resolved that, as a Christian, no one should suffer such abuse or injustice in his presence; that he would always stand up in their defense. Danny's resolve, I believe, is Biblical and one that should be shared by all Christians.

Edit: I took my original post down because it was to much off topic.

Hello...

The very fact that we feel the need to protect something is proof that we have not surrendered that thing to the Lord. We are in essence saying “Lord, I do not trust you to handle this – I will handle it myself.” and the Lord says "fine, handle it yourself, but I will not be in it." He then withdraws His hand and leaves us to our own devices.

I used to volunteer to drive the church van while I was in college. A woman who immigrated from El Salvador was a frequent guest in the van. She had immigrated illegally into the United States, but had been given a green card when she married (and later divorced) a man in the US. She was very poor, but often almost "boasted" about how God cared for her needs. This woman was very critical of people who she accused of living in wealth -- which she concluded was pretty much every American. She told many tales about how badly that people had it in El Salvador, and that Americans could never put up with such conditions. She accused people of having a lack of faith because they didn't live like she did.

One day, another college student who was also riding in the van finally grew tired of this woman's constant criticism. He asked her if she locks her door at night. She admitted that she did, but that was in order to be "as wise as serpents." The college student pointed out that someone, if they wanted to, could point out that she "lacked faith" that God would care for her possessions. However, she claimed that everything that she had belonged to the Lord. He explained that this was easy for her to say because she didn't have anything -- especially a family.

Now, this woman didn't work. The student explained that she claimed to rely on "God" to care for her -- but that she freely received government welfare. She lived in a government housing project. The government paid her utility bills. She received government assistance for food. Her clothing and many of her other needs were usually donated by people who actually worked or by the Church which, he pointed out, was also funded by people who worked. This woman boasted that she was never sick...but she admitted that she went to the doctor (paid for by the government) for certain medical procedures.

Now, this college student did not mean to offend this woman or point an accusatory finger at her. Rather, he wanted to highlight that it seemed that SHE was the one who seemed to be accusing others of a "lack of faith" when she was living off of the benevolence of the government and other believers. He reminded her of the parable of the rich young ruler. Jesus told the young man that he lacked one thing -- to go and sell all that he had and to give the money to the poor...and then to come and follow Him. Jesus said that the man left very sadly, because he had great wealth. The student told the woman that it is more difficult for the "wealthy," because they have so much (Matthew 19:21-22). Transversely, it would be [i]easier[/i] for the poor...because they have so little in the first place. The student reminded her that, by her own admission, even the poor people in America are "rich" compared with people in El Salvador. He told her that it might be more meaningful for the woman to make such a boast if she STILL lived in El Salvador.

Of course, the woman was greatly offended by the student (even though he didn't try to offend her). I think that he had a point...although I think that it might have been pointless to argue with her. It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith. Let those same people move to Iran...Saudi Arabia...Somalia...Sudan...Darfur...China...Cuba...North Korea...or some other persecuted land. If they are so willing to lay down their lives (and, of course, the lives of their family members in their "care")...and if they are so sure that God supernaturally protects them from "disease" or "sickness," then let [u]them[/u] go as missionaries to those lands that are so effected.

Of course, perhaps I am just babbling a bit. However, I feel that God has placed certain things (namely, my family) in my care. I also do my best to be a good steward of the other things that God has placed in my care (from material things like a house, car or money -- to responsibilities like my job, etc...). After all, God has given more "talents" to certain people. We are to take all that God has given us and use it for His glory and to increase His kingdom.

It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith.

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

Here is a website where you can read the accounts of people who were persecuted, who did not fight back:

http://www.homecomers.org/mirror/contents.htm

Here is a book that has become a classic - it was initially printed in 1954 - "Coals of Fire" by Elizabeth Hershberger Bauman. Check it out.

This story has become a classic:

"No story of an Anabaptist martyr has captured the imagination more than the tale of Dirk Willems.

"Dirk was caught, tried and convicted as an Anabaptist in those later years of harsh Spanish rule under the Duke of Alva in The Netherlands. He escaped from a residential palace turned into a prison by letting himself out of a window with a rope made of knotted rags, dropping onto the ice that covered the castle moat.

"Seeing him escape, a palace guard pursued him as he fled. Dirk crossed the thin ice of a pond, the "Hondegat," safely. His own weight had been reduced by short prison rations, but the heavier pursuer broke through.

"Hearing the guard's cries for help, Dirk turned back and rescued him. The less-than-grateful guard then seized Dirk and led him back to captivity. This time the authorities threw him into a more secure prison, a small, heavily barred room at the top of a very tall church tower, above the bell, where he was probably locked into the wooden leg stocks that remain in place today. Soon he was led out to be burned to death.

"Some inhabitants of present-day Asperen, none of them Mennonite, regard Dirk as a folk hero. A Christian, so compassionate that he risked recapture in order to save the life of his drowning pursuer, stimulates respect and memory."

Now having said all this, you are right on one count: there are many who will say they are non-resistant until they are faced with a trying situation: they will cave in to demands in order to escape apparent injury or violence.

On the personal level, if a person were to attack me, I would be no match physically since I am a short, elderly woman. Always was short. Long time ago I decided that it is God's responcibility to protect me from evil people because I have no way to protect myself. I am physically weak. I am no match against brute strength. God has honored my trust in that it has liberated me from unnecessary fear for my well-being. If I do sense any fear, I just pray more earnestly for Him to protect me. But I do know if ill were to occur to me, he allowed it and that there is nothing I could have done to prevent it.

This is my take on this issue...

ginnyrose

Hi Ginnyrose...

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

On the personal level, if a person were to attack me, I would be no match physically since I am a short, elderly woman. Always was short. Long time ago I decided that it is God's responcibility to protect me from evil people because I have no way to protect myself. I am physically weak. I am no match against brute strength. God has honored my trust in that it has liberated me from unnecessary fear for my well-being. If I do sense any fear, I just pray more earnestly for Him to protect me. But I do know if ill were to occur to me, he allowed it and that there is nothing I could have done to prevent it.

However, there is a different matter when it comes to those of whom God has placed in my care. I would certainly lay down my life for my wife or family. If an intruder came into my home and attacked my wife or child, I wouldn't think twice about reacting to protect them. This is NOT violence. This is not [i]personal[/i] resistance. I certainly wouldn't target the attacker in the hope to harm [i]him[/i]...but to prevent [u]him[/u] from harming those under my care. This is being a watchful "vessel" through which God cares for their protection. I don't have to wait for elephants...or animals...or falling bricks if a simple action (like a 911 phone call, wrestling an intruder or a locked door) could protect my family.

Now, I am impressed that God would send elephants to destroy the homes and machinery of persecutors. However, for every elephant that stomped on the homes/bodies/machines of attackers, there are many other believers who suffered for the faith throughout history. In many cases around the world (like the Anabaptists), there weren't any elephants to save them. Many of them died.

Now, I do believe that God can send animals to protect believers. However, I also believe that God can send policemen. In this nation (at least, currently), the police would actually PROTECT people like the Anabaptists, Mennonites, Quakers or even unbelieving pacifists. If an intruder came into a believer's home, would that believer simply allow the intruder to do as he wishes? Would they call the police to intervene on their behalf? If asked, would they tell the police that everything is alright (and no action on their part is required)? If God can send an elephant, He can also send a policeman. If God can send a policeman, He can also use a husband (or even a locked door) to care for the physical needs of that man's wife or child.

I don't believe that it is a "lack of faith" or evidence of a "violent heart" to protect my wife or child from an attacker (whether human or animal). I don't think that it is a "lack of faith" to lock my doors at night either.

However, I also believe that God can send policemen.

He can also send a policeman. If God can send a policeman, He can also use a husband (or even a locked door) to care for the physical needs of that man's wife or child.

I agree. Doesn't make sense, does it?

It is not that we do not believe in self-defense, it is "how is it done?" Confused some more? Likely.

Romans 13:1-7 informs us of the function of the state: to protect the good and being a terror to evil. According to this scripture we are to cooperate with this authority. In Acts Peter says one should obey God rather then men after they were arrested for speaking about Jesus. Apparently, obedience has its limits.

If someone were to break into our home, I would also work to protect myself and whoever, whatever. However, I would not shoot to kill. (In reality we do not even own a gun.) But if the intruder would be a government agency, shooting would earn you some free lodging if not putting you six feet under.

In summary, I do not live in fear for my personal safety. If persecution were to occur, God will give one wisdom on how to deal with that when the time comes. Of this I am confident because he gave me the strength to cope with the death of an adult DD 14 years ago that was astounding. Today, God gives me strength and I will look forward to see what life will give me. In the meantime I will work to live life to the full. I will ask the LORD to show how I can bless someone today. Now this gets really exciting!

God bless you all...
ginnyrose

ginnyrose wrote:

It is "easy" for people to cry "non-resistance" or total "non-involvement" if they don't have to face constant persecution for the faith.

Now come on, Chris, you know better then this! You are not that ignorant of church history, are you? Go study Anabaptist history and you will find many who were as lambs led to the slaughter and really were killed. And they did not fight back. Also, go to the News forum here on SI and read “Christian Elephants”.

As Chris pointed out, the circumstances and the opportunities are vastly different. Not to mention that we Christians are already martyred the moment we truly receive. There is no need to seek out a greater form of martyrdom -- that is just an illusion. Our martyrdom is to obey God with our lives. In previous posts I've listed clear Biblical instructions for us to defend the fatherless, oppose injustice, free the oppressed, and never turn away from the needs of our own flesh and blood. The "martyrdom" we need today is one of action, not inaction.

The admonition by Isaiah against inconsequential piety rings true even today:

[i]Isa 58:5-9 [color=CC3300]"Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color][/i]

I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.

Greetings Leo

You wrote:I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.
___

Leo this statement that you wrote really just filled my heart with such sadness. I agree that there are those on both side of this issue that go to far. Please know that there are many of us who have spent many hours in the Word and prayer seeking the Lord on this matter, please do not discount that. TO say that you lay the blame for the anti christian bent of the government on us is really a very divisive attack that only serves to feed the enemy and cause divisions. Truly you have no idea the amount of time that is spent in prayer for the leaders of this country and those that are lost. Please know that just because one feels strong conviction not to take part in the proceeding of the US government does not mean that we do not have faith or that we are responsible for the current state of affairs that now plague this country.

I know you love the Lord please allow that those of us who do not agree with your stand love the Lord as well. Perhaps more time spent in prayer and daily living one to another, to be about His Kingdom is called for? After all how many votes have saved a lost soul from the fires of hell?? Isn't our time spent sharing and caring for one another, submitting our lives unto Him daily, and interceding on the behalf of the lost a worth while way to put our faith into action too???

I ask you to prayerfully consider this brother
God Bless
maryjane

Dear MaryJane and others,

If I have offended by the statement I made, as quoted by MJ, please forgive me. It was not my intent to hurt, insult, or antagonize anyone.

Prayerful intervention is by no means to be discounted, and I have not said anything in that direction. I also know that most of all, God looks at the heart; so those prayers of yours, MJ and others, they are not lost. But the question in my heart is: can't we do more than pray? I hope no one will take this thought as a sign of lack of faith in God's sovereign power, because it is not. The Bible is clear that we must act out our faith.

My simple message that I hope you will all consider is this: we are already martyred unto Christ; let us not be enamored with the romantic matyrdom of the Anabaptists (again, not meaning to discount their faith) because the times are different. The call by Isaiah for believers to live out their faith as activists, rather than focus only on pious but passive practices holds true today (Isa 58:5-9).

A democratic government is always sensitive to the voices of people. Non-participation and non-resistance has silenced the voices of many believers while the shrill voices of atheists, homosexuals, and humanists have pushed governmental institutions into strong anti-Christian positions that were never there in the past.

There is no clear doctrine in the Bible that forbids participation and resistance; there are clear calls in the Bible to stand up for what is right in the eyes of God. And I'm not saying that we must focus on these things to the detriment of evangelism and sanctification -- by no means should we set aside these important spiritual ministries. But we must not forget that we are called to be God's ambassadors on this earth -- that we are to act as his representatives to establish his kingdom here on earth as it is in heaven.

While it is true that all these things will pass, and that the Lord Jesus' victory is assured in the end, does it mean that we should just be passive and do nothing about the present (in addition to prayer, of course)? Should we just shrug our shoulders and think "well, the gate is supposed to be narrow anyway..."? Shouldn't we be concerned that by our passivity, we are making the gate even narrower than it should be? We are called to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world, not mere furniture.

In Christ,
Leo

P.S. I don't believe that voting Republican is activism enough. Many of them talk the talk, but clearly don't walk the walk. We must be more discerning and more participative.

Greetings Leo
I do forgive you brother. I have read what you have shared many more times then you will ever know, I have prayed and agonized over it. I have searched the heart of the Lord on this issue but He remains firm in what He shows me, I am not to take part, this is not my home, I am just passing through. While I am here I am to share the truth of Jesus with those He gives me leading to, I am to daily care for and love as He gives me leading to, I am to daily submit myself to His will for my life with out regard to my own fleshy wants and desire. I am to take up my cross and daily follow Him in all things. This is my heart to live for the Lord and to daily be about what He calls me. "For me" this is the Lords heart and if I did as you asked I would not be submitting myself to what He has called me to. I trust that you are walking in what He is showing you and I rejoice that you love Him so that you are willing to submit to what He has for you.

I love you brother Leo, you have a deep love for the Lord and that is evident. Please know that what I have shared here with you is my heart and my conviction. I do not say it is for all to follow. I think it was before you came to SI I shared with others here why I no longer take part in politics, voting and the like. Perhaps if I can find that I will share it with you so that you might better understand that when I say this is a much prayed about and deep conviction, I do not speak this lightly.

God Bless you
maryjane

Leo_Grace wrote:

We are called to be the salt of the earth and the light of the world, not mere furniture.

Some are called to act, others are called to submit. All are called to obey the Lord. Someone's obedience may be different then your obedience.

I am not against being active in certain aspects of "government", but I am not for it as well. If we as Christians think that any of our actions will bring His Kingdom to this earth, we are mislead. We are called to live a holy life. We are called to live as Christ, not as the world.

Also, sometimes being "furniture" of others is what Christ calls us to do. As in Romans 12, we are to "heap coals" on our heads.

Merry Christmas bro. :-)

MaryJane and Miccah,

Some are called to act, others are called to submit. All are called to obey the Lord. Someone's obedience may be different then your obedience.

I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.

HeartSong wrote:

I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.

This is the spirit of antichrist.

[i]Tit 3:1-2 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, [b]to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.[/b][/i]

You, sir, are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Greetings Heartsong

Just pointing out to you that Leo did apologize for his comment, in case you over looked that.

To call him a wolf is completely out of line. Leo and I may not agree on this but his many post here bare witness to his love for the Lord.

God Bless
maryjane

HeartSong wrote:
This is the spirit of antichrist.

Leo_Grace wrote
HeartSong, you seem to have absolute faith that whomever does not agree with you is the antichrist. I sincerely suggest you read the Bible more than you do now. There is much you need to learn.

Leo wrote:
I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action.[/b]

God bless

Dear Lysa,

1. I suppose it would appear that I was way out of line there, if we ignore the fact that she first accused me of bearing the spirit of the antichrist for having a different opinion. That is the only reason for her accusation that I can see in this thread, unless I'm missing something. If I am, please explain it to me.

2. Please note that I qualified that statement with "I truly believe..." to make it clear to all that it was just an opinion, not a declaration of absolute truth.

3. And my opinion was expressed as part of a discussion with ginnyrose, chris, and maryjane. I don't mind others joining the discussion, but to do so with an antichrist accusation is unnerving and disturbing.

4. How would you deal with someone who calls those who politely disagree with them "antichrists", particularly when that someone claims to be a pacifist? Is it wrong to suggest the need for more Bible reading?

DeepThinker wrote:
Leo said:

Quote:I truly believe that much of the blame for today's "anti-Christian" bent of the US government lies with the non-participative and non-resistance attitude of many. Our faith is proven by our action. HeartSong said: This is the spirit of antichrist.

Actually let me give you the bibles interpretation of the spirit of an anti Christ.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

hi everyone:-)

Just thought I would chime in here to:-) I was surprised by Leo's comment to when I first read it, however he did come back and tell everyone that he was sorry for what he said and did not mean to offend. I think that should be what matters most here. I mean come on guys how many times have you typed something out, posted it, only to come back later and think "wow I wish i had worded that differently."

Do we really need to start calling others in Christ wolves, and accusing them of having an anti Christ spirit just because they don't happen to share our conviction on this matter?? It just does not seem that this is how Jesus would want us to share with one another?:-(

with care in Him

Dear DT,

Jesus said whatever He saw the Father do, He did. This is faith in action. It's what the Father is telling you to do and we obey. That is faith. It's not going out looking for it. It's not volunteering at the local food bank, though that maybe a place the LORD would have you be. Mary sat at the feet of Jesus listening to Jesus while Martha was running around getting dinner ready and Jesus told Martha that Mary hath found the best part.

However, all the actions that I suggested are already commanded by God in the Bible:

[i]Isa 58:5-9 [color=CC3300]"Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color][/i]

Are the above instructions inadequate because they come through the mouth of Isaiah? I am honestly puzzled how any believer can justify inaction or non-participation in the face of these verses. Are there other verses in the Bible that contradict these ones? Do we consider these commands as inferior because they are in the old testament?

Anyone, please answer these questions to help me understand. I am truly bewildered by the reactions of some.

Greetings Leo

I have read this verse that you posted and I even shared it with my husband and I am not sure what you are trying to say with it. I do not see it as saying that one is commanded to participate in voting or government affairs.

It tells us to care for others, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, give shelter and help those in need. What does this have to do with participating in the US government or voting? I can do all these things as the Lord gives leading. Again I ask why is it you assume that there is inaction because we do not do things your way? Just because I do not vote, or take part in the this worlds governmental affairs does not mean that I do not care for others.
God Bless
maryjane

Dear MaryJane,

Please understand that I am not trying to persuade you into my way of thinking. From the loving way you share in this forum, I am confident that you are doing more than your share of God's work. And, as you said earlier, you have prayed about it and God had clearly led you into your personal position against voting and government participation -- I cannot argue against that. On an individual basis, it is the Lord's personal message to you that must prevail.

Rather than trying to convince others, I am trying my best to understand the opposite view -- that's why I'm asking those questions. I see the commands clearly and I'm baffled why so many (or even a majority) of believers seem to shy away from acting on them.

Has God countermanded Isa 58:5-9? If so, I'd honestly like to know where.

Do most believers consider these instructions to be done away with under the new covenant? I'd like to understand how.

(Added:) Do you consider government participation as a sign of lack of faith in God? I'd like to know why.

I'm sincerely trying to see the other side, for I am open to the possibility that my view might be wrong.

In Christ,
Leo

P.S. The verses speak of correcting injustice, feeding the hungry, and setting the oppressed free - things that would be difficult to attain without some participation in government; to choose proper leaders, or even if only as a persuasive voice to influence policy. In a general sense (not individual) I cannot see how not participating can serve the will of God.

Leo_Grace wrote:

P.S. The verses speak of correcting injustice, feeding the hungry, and setting the oppressed free - things that would be difficult to attain without some participation in government; to choose proper leaders, or even if only as a persuasive voice to influence policy. In a general sense (not individual) I cannot see how not participating can serve the will of God.

Chinese, Iranian and North Korean (true) Chruch. No form of government participation is allowed, unless strictly dictated by that government... and these brothers and sisters in these states are doing everything that you say needs a government, without ANY government involvement.

Maybe this isn't the type of answer that you were searching for, but it is a true life example currently happening as I write.

Merry new year! :-)

Dear Micaah,

Chinese, Iranian and North Korean (true) Chruch. No form of government participation is allowed, unless strictly dictated by that government... and these brothers and sisters in these states are doing everything that you say needs a government, without ANY government involvement.

You have been unusually jolly today, Christiaan. Have you been partaking of holiday eggnog?

Merry Christmas! :-)

Greetings Leo

What Miccah shared is really the best answer I could give you as well.

God Bless
maryjane

Hi Miccah...

Chinese, Iranian and North Korean (true) Chruch. No form of government participation is allowed, unless strictly dictated by that government... and these brothers and sisters in these states are doing everything that you say needs a government, without ANY government involvement.

Although China is still a closed, communist nation that continues to persecute the true Church, there has been some progress made over the last decade. This is evident not just because of certain perestroika-like changes in regard to economic and trade activity, but to many believers like my friend in college. I can't help but wonder if some of those changes are brought about because of individuals who are willing to get involved.

Yes, there is still a long way to go for the promotion of religious freedom in China. And yes, we can say that God in His omniscience plays the ultimate role in influencing government (including raising up and tearing down). However, it seems that God often performs this through men.

Of course, like Leo pointed out, most of us don't live in a communist nation like China. Most of us are not daily threatened with death or physical persecution for our faith (or sectarian views). In fact, most of us live in nations that would actually [i]protect[/i] individuals from physical harm on account of our faith (and even [i]prosecute[/i] and arrest those who would threaten or harm us).

Richard Wurmbrand, founder of Voice of the Martyrs, was a person who knew firsthand the effects that physical and emotional persecution can have on believers in closed nations. He and his wife were literally tortured for Christ over a period of years. When they finally escaped to the West, they spent their life getting INVOLVED. He openly testified before Congress about the brutality of official and unofficial Soviet animosity toward believers. He encouraged the United States to act on behalf of the persecuted and underground Church in lands where a person could die for their faith. He encouraged believers (through his newsletter) to petition judges, governors, congressmen, presidents and ambassadors. His newsletter sometimes included postcards that could be signed and mailed to government leaders on behalf of certain jailed believers.

I suppose that it does come down to a matter of conscience. For all of the statements that claim that believers should abstain from any sort of involvement (or the view that such involvement is altogether worldly and unspiritual), I just can't find such a position in the Scriptures. Yes, I understand the verses that are sometimes quoted in defense of a "non-involvement" position. However, I don't think that those verses are often interpreted correctly.

Frank is correct in that our ultimate goal should be in an attempt to harvest souls for the Kingdom of God. It would be a fruitless existence for a believer in Jesus Christ to live without such a mission. It is always wonderful to be able to point to individuals that we introduced to Christ and who are now walking with Him. Yet, I also believe that we can do this effectively and still let our light shine outside of the bushel of Christendom. I can preach the Word (with and without words) while living, moving and having my being in Christ as I walk through "the wilderness of this world" (to quote Bunyan).

Greetings Frank

Several weeks ago, back at the end of September I think it was, I and another friend stopped watching news or reading any kind of news. I found myself really struggling at the time with worry and fear over what was going to happen next and what was Obama and his administration going to do. I spent many hours sifting through the top headlines only to walk away feeling angry and sadden. After much prayer this friend and myself decided that we would just stop reading it and watching it. Instead we would pray for the leaders of this country to seek God and to submit their lives to Him, spend more time in the Bible and caring for others. I know for me personally it has made a huge difference because now my focus is on Him and the things of His Kingdom not the things of this world and its affairs. I do still read the weather forecast and pray as God gives leading if there is a bad storm coming for those it affects but other then that I have no desire to go back to reading all the latest headlines. Much of today's news tends to lean towards gossip anyway.

God bless
maryjane

Just an after thought, this is something that I am walking in as the Lord gives me leading but is not in any way me saying that others are wrong or sinful for reading/watching the current news affairs.

Hi Frank,

I guess if I am being totaly honest I would say that I believe that there is a direct correaltion between the rise of Christian involvment in Politics and the stats I gave from Barna. I have a pastor friend who would testify that many of his congregation spend endless hours watching Fox News, but he cant get them to come to a prayer meeting. Consider this message from Andrew Strom, one of the speakers at the Welsh revival conference.......

Likewise, I have seen some who share Andrew Strom's inclination and almost act as if FoxNews, talk radio or the Republican Party is the enemy of men's souls. Yes, an overindulgence or an allegiance to such things that begins to take preeminence over the relationship or work of Christ is certainly indicative of a spiritual problem. However, I believe that it is very possible to serve Christ sincerely, faithfully and effectively win the lost but still be aware of the things of this world (or certain views about the things of this world via such media outlets) and still maintain their faith in Christ.

Just like Andrew Strom pointed out, President Obama is NOT the "enemy" (even if we might disagree with many of his policy decisions or his personal views on things like abortion). However, the enemy is NOT FoxNews or talk radio either. The enemy of men's souls will use ANYTHING to distract them from Christ. This could be an obsession with politics or even an obsession with an anti-political view. Still, I don't think that we should throw out the proverbial "baby with the bath water" by creating a prohibition on such involvement simply because of the actions (or lack of actions) of some.

Greetings Chris

I think for me, one of my biggest troubles with the news is that much of it comes across as nothing more then gossip. The emotion behind much of it is just very unsettling to me personally. I found it very hard for along time to pray for President Obama whenever I watched the news or read it on the internet because of the slant that comes across in most news stories. Talk radio was also very hard for me because they do try to stir things and to get a reaction from you. Of course I know this is what makes them money and they are a business but it was a real stumbling block for me.

I do realize of course that there are many who do not feel this way and have no trouble watching the news. You are right there is nothing in the Bible that tells us we must refrain from watching it, so christian should follow the Lords leading in this and seek to walk in what He has for them daily.

God Bless
maryjane

Hi MaryJane...

I agree. However, this is true of ALL "news" media outlets (and not just the oft-maligned FoxNews). It is difficult to find a news source that is "just the facts" as I find most of the news media (from FoxNews to conservative talk radio, from CNN to NPR, from the AP to local newspapers) vary from subtle bias to outright propaganda. I think that it would be healthy to realize this. Just like FoxNews and conservative talk radio is often maligned for "making money," we should remember that the same is true of EVERY media outlet. Even those that are "nonprofit" have a strong bias (including leftist stations like National Public Radio). Thus, if we hear it, we can remember that the journalist is just as human as we are...and often far more prone to ideological influence.

To be clear, I don't know that I have ever met believers who don't realize this. Even those who I know that watch certain outlets like FoxNews exclusively are aware that Glen Beck, Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly are filled with OPINIONS rather than "just the facts." Regardless, I think that it is a good principle to "test everything" but to also "hold on to the good" (I Thessalonians 5:8).

Dear Frank,

I agree with all that you have said. The type of "involvement" that you described is plain hate-mongering, gossip, and slander. These are things that a believer should not be involved in for they grieve the heart of God. One shouldn't pay heed to party lines or meaningless rhetoric -- that is too shallow an approach. Politicians lie so easily.

Leaders should be chosen of the basis of honesty vs. hypocrisy; integrity vs. pragmatism; service vs. avarice; never red vs. blue. I would prefer an honest man who is sincerely wrong than a liar who always says what I want to hear.

Christians, if they are to become involved, should not forget that they belong to God and never allow themselves to be used as pawns by political parties.

Christians, if they have the opportunity, should themselves serve in government; for God and his people will support them in their ministry. Many faithful men and women in the Bible held positions of great power and were thus greatly used by God for his purpose (Joseph, Daniel, David, Esther, etc.).

Any involvement that throws Christian ethics out the window should be avoided. And of course, as Christians, those involved politically should take every opportunity to share the good news and win converts to Jesus Christ.

Evangelism and discipleship should remain the primary ministry of all Christians; social and political involvement, done properly, can actually support these goals of winning others to the Lord.

So when I say that Christians should be involved, I don't mean it in the way you just described. I too am turned off by the hateful slander spewed by many against government leaders.

In Jesus Christ,
Leo

[size=medium]2Ch 7:14 [color=000099]If My people, who are called by My name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from Heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

appolus wrote:
Leo writes......

"So when I say that Christians should be involved, I don't mean it in the way you just described. I too am turned off by the hateful slander spewed by many against government leaders."

I am very glad to hear that Leo :) I have a question, do you know of a single politician today who is wholy and totaly sold out to Jesus Christ and is only there because Jesus called them to be there? Is there any William Wilberforces out there?

If you had to give me four modern day examples of Joseph, Daniel, David, Esther who would they be? I would vote for the man or woman who was only in congress or the senate to promote the cause of Jesus Christ...........Frank

P.S. I have openly asked for anyone to explain the reason for non-involvement to me, for I am open to correction. But the best explanation I have gotten so far was from MaryJane: that it is a personal leading to her from God. I'm looking for a reason that explains this phenomenon in a general sense. As far as I can see, public involvement by Christians would help greatly to address God's concerns regarding injustice, oppression, poverty, morality, etc. Then we would be "salt of the earth and "light of the world", then God's name would be glorified and the goal of evangelism would also be served.

[i]Mt 5:16 [color=CC3300]"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."[/color][/i]

Dear Frank,

You are assuming, from what I have posted, that I disagree with you – I don't. We are in agreement that the only solution to all the ills of mankind is for each individual to return to God through faith in Jesus Christ. Evangelism and discipleship should remain the primary focus of our lives, for it is the best thing we can do to please God and to benefit men whom we love.

Revival occurs when men cast away all that hinders and return to their first love in God. I like the way DeepThinker said it in his thread on “Giving away some books”. He said he was proud of his library of Christian literature, zealously collected over the years, but it had become a distraction rather than a help to him; and he was determined to simplify his life to the point where it would be just God, the Bible, and himself. When God can move powerfully in the lives of those who call on his Name, he can also move powerfully in cities and nations (I am not implying at all that God is limited by men; but God often likes to do his work through the body of believers). So when you say that Christians must focus on evangelism, discipleship, and revival, I am with you there.

What I don't agree with is the idea that spiritual goals (evangelism, discipleship, sanctification, revival, etc.) and social concerns (injustice, oppression, poverty, etc.) must be mutually exclusive. My understanding of the Bible is that they are interrelated and help to reinforce rather than deplete each other; for God teaches us to be concerned about all of these things. I agree that to forsake the spiritual ministries in order to focus on social concerns (as Andrew Strom said) would be folly; but do the former without any of the latter would be just as detrimental. Going back to the admonition given by Isaiah from God:

[i]Isa 58:5-9 [color=CC3300]"Is this the kind of fast I have chosen, only a day for a man to humble himself? Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed and for lying on sackcloth and ashes? Is that what you call a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD?

Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter — when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Then your light will break forth like the dawn, and your healing will quickly appear; then your righteousness will go before you, and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. Then you will call, and the LORD will answer; you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."[/color][/i]

Isaiah lets us know that God values active involvement over passive piety. The passage is clear that it is through such faithful action that we are able to please God, who will then listen to us. Our faith is proven by our action, and this pleases God who responds to our prayers.

Ok, I know that God does not say that believers should be involved in government, but neither does he forbid it. When one considers the social problems of injustice, oppression, poverty, morality, etc., the prospect of government involvement would present itself as an obvious avenue to address these things. Many brethren shun the simple act of voting; a right that, if done prayerfully, can place the men God has chosen into office. Others decline the opportunity for public service as if it would be a denial of the faith – where are we taught this in the Bible? And their common excuse is that God is sovereign and will accomplish these things with or without their help; but is this how God works? Were we appointed to be his ambassadors on earth so we could just sit, do nothing, and wait for him to act? I don't think so (I am still open to anyone who can explain to me that I am wrong regarding these things). When only the ungodly are willing to stand for public office, what kind of government would you expect to get?

From my reading of the Bible, active involvement in society and in government by believers would uphold the cause of evangelism and revival. For then we would be visible and audible; we would be the “salt of the earth” and the “light of the world” that bring glory to God, causing men to praise him and to come to him.

In Jesus,
Leo

P.S. DT, I'll look into other scripture as you suggested and will respond later. Thank you.

Dear DeepThinker,

I agree that when these similar "social concerns" are mentioned in Isaiah 61, and even in Psalms 72, it speaks of the anointing that is upon the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish these things.

However, Isaiah 58 begins like this:

[i]Isa 58:1 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back. Raise your voice like a trumpet. Declare to my people their rebellion and to the house of Jacob their sins."[/i]

Here, God is clearly admonishing his people (including us) and commanding them regarding how they should act in order to please him.

But even the teachings in Isaiah 61 and Psalm 72, although they speak of Jesus' missions, would apply to us -- for didn't the Lord call us to follow him; and are we not supposed to become more Christ-like in our lives?

In Jesus Christ,
Leo

Dear Leo,

Is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

HeartSong wrote:
Dear Leo,

Is Jesus Christ come in the flesh?

Your disingenuous insult is unbecoming of one who claims to know the Lord Jesus Christ, but I will humor you for the benefit of those who may read this.

Yes, Jesus Christ has come in the flesh; he was sent to us by God the Father to redeem us from our sins, the penalty of which is eternal life in hell. He gave himself freely because he loved us, to be crucified as the atonement for the sins of men, that they may again return to God through faith in him. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no one can come to the Father except through him. It is by his grace that I have been saved and reborn into a new life in Him.

My rebirth into Jesus Christ was made possible by the ministry of the Holy Spirit; who gave me a hunger to know God through the reading of His Word. In obedience to the Spirit, I have read the Bible each day with few exceptions, to feed on the "flesh of Jesus" and thereby grow spiritually through knowledge of God. I have done this for the last 24 years, since November 1985, when I first came to believe. At that time, the Spirit so moved in me that I could not help but devour the word for hours on end; I read the Bible in its entirety within a few weeks and started over again. At that time, the Spirit revealed to me the unconditional love that God had for me so that I was drawn to love God with all my being in return.

I was a man of the world before I knew the Lord Jesus, and was renewed in my mind and heart through his grace, but I remain a pitiful sinner even now. I can honestly declare that I have been faithful in my walk; faithful to God, my wife, my children and my friends. I have confessed my sins and received God's forgiveness for those times when I faltered or when unworthy thoughts flowed out of my heart.

God has been faithful to me in all my adventures since I submitted to his Lordship. Through the many storms and trials of my life, God has stood by me and provided for me in many unexpected and wonderful ways. I have turned my back on many things to follow God, but he has blessed me many times over. By the grace of God, I have survived stage 4 metastatic colon cancer and am presently cancer-free after more than two years of struggle.

Materially, I am a poor man; but neither I nor my family have ever felt lacking in anything we needed. We continue to rely on God to provide for us even as I recover from my recent bout with cancer, and he has been faithful. There is nothing about my life that I need to hide, for I have lived in the light since 1980. Though I have made many mistakes, I continue to count on God to guide me into his perfect will. More than anything else I rely on Bible-reading and prayer for his guidance.

No, I am not the antichrist, and neither am I a wolf in sheep's clothing, that you have accused me of being in this thread.

Now, HeartSong, would you please tell me more about yourself and your walk with God? I sincerely would like to get to understand you better.

In Jesus,
Leo

Hi Frank...

On that we will have to disagree. The problem is not these news shows, the problem is idolotry and those taken up with it.It seems that you are not, thats good, but just because you are not nor is anyone you have ever met, does not negate the points Andrew was making.

You do have a habit of trying to neutralize a point by saying "
I don't know that I have ever met believers who don't realize this." Its not about who you have met Chris, and just because you have not met anyone who has this problem does not negate what Andrew was trying to say.

....

Either he is right and Christians have left the harvest field for the civil war, or he is not. Now, I have literlaly met...

If Barna is right, and 92% of Christians have never saw anyone come to Christ through their sharing, if there is indeed a crisis in Christianity today, if the Spiritual state of this country is worse than it has ever been( so says Billy Graham) then what is the root cause? Is it because we have left the harvest field to join the civil war?

Or we could just blame the liberals, the socialists, the Democrats, the liberal press, the President or any number of other things. It is so much easier to blame others for our present woeful spiritual state, when in actual fact, the blame lies at our own feet.

I guess that is my point. I don't believe that there is a Scriptural prohibition of such things. We can certainly "agree to disagree," but we should at least voice it as such. I don't think that we should declare ultimate absolutes about such things...and that is how these sort of discussions often meander into. Otherwise, we might start calling those who disagree with us to be "wolves in sheep's clothing" -- and then, one day, stand before God and give an account for such declarations.

Now, HeartSong, would you please tell me more about yourself and your walk with God? I sincerely would like to get to understand you better.

HeartSong wrote:

Now, HeartSong, would you please tell me more about yourself and your walk with God? I sincerely would like to get to understand you better.

It is not about me, it is about Him.

I asked you a simple question regarding yourself, sincerely hoping to understand you better, and you respond by hiding.

Your unwillingness to come into the light reveals more about you than you think...

[i]1Jn 2:9 "Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness."[/i]

Leo_Grace wrote:

HeartSong wrote:

Now, HeartSong, would you please tell me more about yourself and your walk with God? I sincerely would like to get to understand you better.

It is not about me, it is about Him.

You asked me a question with a phrase from the Bible that defines the antichrist, with the implicit suggestion that I was such a one. In response, I stepped into the light of this public forum to make myself and my faith known to all.

I asked you a simple question regarding yourself, sincerely hoping to understand you better, and you respond by hiding.

Your unwillingness to come into the light reveals more about you than you think...

[i]1Jn 2:9 "Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness."[/i]

He sets His light upon my path and causes me to walk in it. He restores my soul. He keeps me from all evil and hides me in the cleft of the Rock. He shelters me from the storm and keeps me safe under the shadow of His wing.

He heals me of all of my infirmities and feeds me and clothes me in the abundance of all that He is. He continually showers blessings upon me and wraps me in the wings of His love.

He is my best friend and my only reason for living. He is the delight of my heart and the love of my life. Jesus Christ, my Lord and Saviour. Jesus Christ, my all in all.

Even though there be darkness all around me, He lights me from within where none can take away the beauty of His countenance.

EDIT: Fixed misspelling.