A Sad & Disappointing Experience

You really don't realize that the LORD is working
through ministries {such as GFA} to help the
orphans in Southeast Asia ?? Isn't building
missions and orphanages the LORD's work, too ?? :-o

Hey procyon

You wrote:We gather on Sunday to worship the Lord! (That's final. )
_____

Seriously this was your compliant against this church? Everyday that we are here belongs to the Lord not just Sunday...I worship Him and seek to follow Him everyday. I also think that we should gather together and worship Him on any day of the week, better yet on every day of the week:-)

in Him

Our Sabbath is in Jesus Christ.
______________________

I agree completely with that statement. I believe everyday belongs to Him:-)

with care in Him

Hi everyone,

I've been in touch with several churches. Haven't found a spiritual church yet.

What is spiritual about your discussion here?

I say your becuse your views, your dissapointment, your respones to anyone that has responded to you ect.. is the focus.

It doesn't come off as spiritual at all.

It sounds like just you.

I understand what you're saying. There are times in a gathering that I desire to meet the Lord in an emotional way and at other times in a more intellectual way. We call that worship But here's what the word of God says Rom 12:1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

We sometimes fool ourselves (I'm speaking to myself here) in the area of worship and it becomes not what we offer the Lord but what we "feel" from Him or don't "feel" from Him and somehow in all of our services, well we place the blame on the song leader, preacher, the distracting man or woman up front etc...That is of course a lie from the pit of hell. I have sat through so many boreing missionary meetings personally too, but in my giving to ....especially children, I know this much, I have touched the heart of God in worship at the highest level possible to man while on this earth.
And so my brother, strive to expand the base on which you worship and serve the Lord, with such sacrifices as that the Lord is well pleased.

Hey procyon:-)

You wrote:I was talking about a day for corporate worship, when the church meets for corporate worship, to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and His great sacrifice on Calvary's Cross.
_____

That is what I was talking about too. I meet with other brothers and sisters in Christ daily, for fellowship, encouraging one another, worshiping Him and caring for one another. You know if you read in Acts they met daily to worship Him and to fellowship with one another, all their days were set aside for Him not just one:-)
We are told to daily take up our cross and follow Him...that is what walking with Him is all about.

with care in Him

procyon wrote:

I agree that our Sabbath is in Christ Jesus. I believe in the first day of the week being the Lord's Day. However, I do not mind if those in Muslim countries worship the Lord Jesus on Friday, because that's the holiday there.

How generous of you. 8-)

I heard K.P. Yohannan at a Calvary Chapel, too, in Vista California in 1992.

But out of consideration for the SI moderators, it may not be a good idea to start a thread critical of K.P. Yohannan when Arch-Moderator Gordon is featuring K.P. Yohannan on the home page! I mean, if the guy who runs this Website is promoting the man's ministry, and you feel the man's ministry is flawed, then the courteous way to address it is to PM Greg Gordon and share your concerns.

(EDITED)

hi, i know your tired of eating manna and quail. unless you want the same results of those who murmured andcomplained ...repent and lets go take the land.jimp

jimp wrote:
hi, i know your tired of eating manna and quail. unless you want the same results of those who murmured andcomplained ...repent and lets go take the land.jimp

Hey, that's an interesting point. Are we "revivalists" who are always harping on the bankrupcy of the American church in the same spirit as the children of Israel when they murmured against Moses? Granted, the professional clergymen of today ain't Moses and they've given us a lot to murmur about, but it is something to consider.

Pr 10:18 He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool.

Mt 7:1-5 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

Hi procyon.You were saying: "you can share this with KPY. And may the Lord search his heart & may he truly repent regarding his 'performance' at CC North Philly that Sunday!! If he has really learnt something from Bro Bakht Singh (as he claims), he would never never have behaved like that. And he surely knows the sanctity of the 'Lord's day'. He knows that Sunday is a day meant for corporate worship through the exposition of the word of God, of praising God through song and individual worship, and through taking part in the Lord's Table.

Bro Bakht Singh would NEVER have indulged in a publicity stunt like that! Neither would (taking another example from the West!) George Muller have done what KPY did in CCNP that day!"
I didn't participate in this discussion before.But i'm just thinking-Isn't it time to stop posting things like that?They don't do any good to anyone.

It's becoming "a Sad & Disappointing Experience" for people to read this thread. :)

I would like to add something further to my response to you, nasekom. Even SI is not immune to the worship of the 'golden calf'. And just as Jeroboam set up two calves, one at Dan and another at Bethel, I must say the Indian calves, Zac P and KP Yohanan, are idolized too much on this otherwise esteemed site.

As always, post edifyingly, or do not post at all. Poonen, Yohannen, Washer and other popular speakers have been - and still are - an inspiration for multitudes of believers at all levels and their God-given ministries are a continued blessing to saints everywhere. That some may seem to "idolize" them (in your estimation), in no way diminishes their integrity nor the integrity of SermonIndex.

Let us strike a balance!

hi procyon.i respect both Zac P. and Yohannan(though i don't agree with Zac on some things he says) and i can't agree with you when you call them "Indian calves,idolized too much on this otherwise esteemed site." nobody idolizes them.God is using these men.Yohannan's "Revolution in world missions" was a blessing for me personally.I don't like the tone you are using here so why not just leave this subject alone and post something edifying? With love in Christ,nasekom.

Love covers. I you had love - you wouldn't make such a post publicly. If your wife or your best friend would do any wrong or sinful thing, you probably would not go to some forum and tell everybody. You would forgive them and love them and pray for them, that god may grant them repentance etc.

But what you did here, in slandering K.P. (even if he did something wrong, as far as I remember is he still a human and able to sin) was totally without love. It was unwholesome talk.

I am not telling you to compromise etc or to act like everything was ok. sin is sin and everyone who calls a evil thing good and a good thing evil is cursed. BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THAT ON THE FORUM. Really, you don't have to warn all the other believers about K.P. - there are guys out there, who are far worse than K.P....

Brother, do you not realize that several chapters of Paul's writings are dedicated to taking up an offering? Indeed, have you ever read 2 Corinthians 8-9? Paul takes two entire chapters to appeal to the Corinthians for an offering for a ministry he is a part of in taking care of the Jerusalem saints. These are not the only writings in which he does this. Surely if our brother Paul could dedicate two entire chapters of sacred Scripture to the ask for an offering for his ministry of mercy, then it is a rather small thing that K.P. Yohannan should take up a Sunday morning service to do the same thing?

Yes, love covers. But truth uncovers.

And exactly what have you uncovered? If anything you've exposed yourself, not K.P. Yohannan. K.P. did something you didn't really care for, and something you find distasteful. But I've yet to see how he did anything that was actually sinful. On the other hand, I can see how you've done nothing but be judgmental and slanderous towards our brother, all in the name of discernment. You are so cruel to our dear brother. I doubt he would speak this way about you.

Indeed, K.P. did nothing different than what the apostle Paul did in several of his letters, and in person as well. He asked for an offering to support his ministry of mercy. A ministry, by the way, which is making a vast difference for the cause of Christ. A ministry which many here on Sermon Index have been more than happy to support. He's helped raise up and finance ten's of thousands of missionaries, to reach those who have yet to be reached. Not to mention not one dime of what is donated goes to help cover administrative cost. 100% goes to wherever you designate it to go.

Brother, you need to get right with the Lord. Your posts here on Sermon Index thus far have been nothing but cynical. You have unforgiveness in your life, which is fueling the destructive fire which burns within you. And that is not a holy fire. I don't say these things to condemn you, for I personally know what it is like to be infected with such carnality, having engaged with it myself, and even reveling in it under the guise of discernment and prophetic insight. I say this in utter humility: You need to be broken before you say anything else.

Learn from the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 13, who says loves does not keep score. You, my brother, are keeping many scores. Forgiveness will release you from this bondage. May God richly supply you with grace.

Brother Procyon,

I also attended that Sunday meeting at the North Philly Calvary Chapel. What a small world. I must say that I too came away deflated from the service. I left empty.

Lately I too have been somewhat dismayed at all the mail we get from GFA. A pastor friend of mine from Calvary Chapel in northern Missouri, in another conversation stated that he too has been heavy in spirit due to this constant push for more funds.

Our family has been with GFA for maybe 6 or 7 years. It just seems lately that there has been a greater push for donations.

With all of that said, I still love what God is doing through GFA. And I dismissed KPY's call that morning for money to a heart that desires so much more for a people destitute. Seeing both worlds, KPY might be overwhelmed by the wasting of this country....

In Christ
Jeff

Dear Procyon, All moderators have asked you to not continue this, brother Greg Gordon said

I would ask that in the future you would rather speak words of edification to the body of christ and not tear down "names" of men before other "men". Such things we will be accountable to before God.

And since i have not heard this message you speak of i can not evaluate the "truth" to what you say, I do sense your spirit is wrong and also that you refuse to listen to the advice given by several people.

Different men go about it different ways, Brother K.P may ask for an offering and we can find biblical support for that, another example is Zac Poonen who determined he would never ask for an offering. Both i am confident love God with all their heart and seek to serve the Lord with the wisdom given to both in their ministry. That some charismatic people have taken offerings into an extreme and made a cult of it dont exclude the real offerings the word speaks about, just as some have taken certain parts that speaks of gifts and turned some "churches" into what i would consider a circus. That does not meen anyone who claim to have a gift is gone crazy or anyone who uses the gifts God can give us.

I ask you stop this or this thread will be closed. The best advice i can give you is to seek to contact K.P Yohannan himself and speak with him anything that may be a concern to you about his ministry.