Forgiving Yourself

I want to ask a question about a statement a lady made in our Sunday School class Sunday. She got no reaction because the time for dismissal was at hand.

The statement: "The concept of self-forgiveness is not a Biblical one. The Bible does not teach it."

My understanding is that self-forgiveness is tied up with guilt for sins committed. When you realize you have sinned, you will experience deep regret and then you wonder how you could have been so stupid. To overcome this intense guilt you need to ask God for forgiveness as well as the others wronged. If there remains any residual guilt, you must also learn to forgive yourself.

What say, brothers and sisters?

I am off to the greenhouses so I cannot be checking back until later tonight. But I would love to have your insight in this issue. I have never heard this concept being challenged before....

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Greetings ginnyrose

I have never considered this to be un Biblical. Many times I have held on to left over guilt or regret and many times it has been shared with me that I must let go, that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. As someone who has at times beat myself up over and over again for past sins, I tend to think the opposite would be true. If we do not let go(after repentance) and we continue to live in regret and guilt then isn't that almost like saying God your forgiveness is not good enough?

This is something I would be interested in hearing what others are seeing.

God Bless
mj

I personally have no idea what it means to "forgive yourself". Sounds like a bunch of new age psychological bunk to me. Forgiveness has to do with sin not being counted against you on the basis of Christ. If personal sin against another, it is not holding that person under bondage because Christ has forgiven us much more. It is a judicial/legal action. It has nothing to do with feelings.

If you are holding yourself under some sort of bondage for your sin, but have dealt with it before God and whoever was offended, what's left has nothing to do with forgiveness, but walking in truth. If Christ has set you free, then you shall be free indeed! So reckon it to yourself and stop living in faithlessness and lies (for what else is it if Christ says we are free but we don't agree with Him?)

Words have meanings, and using them wrongly can have damaging consequences on a person and a culture. I would say the concept of "forgiving yourself" is soaked in false understanding, or at least horrible misuse of terms.

Greetings BeYeDoers

you wrote:If you are holding yourself under some sort of bondage for your sin, but have dealt with it before God and whoever was offended, what's left has nothing to do with forgiveness, but walking in truth.
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This was what I was trying to put into words. You did a much better job then I did :)

you wrote:Words have meanings, and using them wrongly can have damaging consequences on a person and a culture. I would say the concept of "forgiving yourself" is soaked in false understanding, or at least horrible misuse of terms
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I agree words do have meaning and we have lost a lot of understanding because of slang. I am always telling my boys that. I am not sure that the term forgiving yourself is a false understanding or not, I need to pray about that some because I do understand what Ginnyrose was saying also. It may be a misuse of terms, I am not sure?? For me I think of letting go of guilt as walking in the truth that Jesus promises. IF we repent we are forgiven and our sins taken away. We don't hold on to guilt or regret because we are forgiven.

This is one I want to share with my dh and get his thoughts on.

God Bless
maryjane

Scripture is very clear on our mandate to forgive others, and on God's faithfulness to forgive us. There does not seem to be much said about forgiving yourself, but there are a few passages that are pertinent.

John 8:11 Jesus asks the woman where her accusers are. They are gone, and there is no one to condemn her. Jesus says, "neither do I condemn you."

Matth. 6:14-15 Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

The standard that Jesus set is one of forgiveness and release from condemnation.

So this is the way I see it. I think all of us have at one time or another had difficulty forgiving ourself for some wrong that we have done. But if we really understand the forgiveness of God through Christ and the fact that we have been released from condemnation, ought we also to forgive ourselves as well. To refuse to release myself from a debt that God has released me from is to take the burden of that sin back on myself. It is, at its heart, evidence of a lack of faith in what Christ has done. If I really believed I was free from all guilt, why would I not forgive myself. If I believe that I have to somehow atone for my own sins through some period of agony or penance,then I would not step out from under the thing, but instead carry guilt around. In that respect I think that one could argue that refusing to forgive yourself is sin in that it is unbelief.

The bottom line though is that we need to be so secure in the fact that God has released us from the guilt of the thing that we also release ourselves. Not releasing ourselves will have very negative consequences in our lives.

I don't see this as psychology; it is agreeing with God about the matter. Psychology would be trying to stop feeling bad about sin while still chasing after it and without receiving God's forgiveness for it.

Hope that helps.

Travis

Travis, my point is that we CAN'T forgive ourselves. Only the one offended can forgive. Only in our me-centric culture can you wrong yourself when you sin. It's rooted in relativism. It's this idea of "being true to yourself" and "do what's right for you". When you fail and feel bad, the fix is to forgive yourself.

But we are to do what's right in the eyes of God alone. When we fail, the conscience He gave us smites us, His Spirit convicts us, and He is right to condemn us (find us guilty). But he who repents and seeks Him by faith He gives grace and forgives.

Walking in the truth that God forgives the repentant sinner based on Christ and reckoning that to yourself is NOT the same thing as forgiving yourself.

When you fail and feel bad, the fix is to forgive yourself.

Not sure we are quite on the same page. I wasn't at all disagreeing with what you said.

I think ginnyrose was talking about forgiving yourself in the sense of releasing yourself from guilt or "not beating yourself up" because you have failed after you have repented and received God's forgiveness. That was what I was responding to. Of course we cannot forgive ourselves in the sense of absolving ourselves of guilt before God. To believe that is to eliminate the very reason for Christ incarnate.

Accepting God's forgiveness, and then not beating yourself up over the matter any longer, even though your emotions have not caught up with the truth, since you know by faith it is settled is not some form of psychology. Believing you can simply convince yourself to feel better over the matter without repenting and receiving forgiveness is, I agree with you, based in the world's psychology. :-)

Blessings

Travis

Travis, I agree with you.

About this being a new-age philosophy, I beg to differ. I do know new-ages perverts all Biblical doctrine, so it behooves one to discern which is which. New agers promote forgiveness without repentance, e.g, and call for tolerance for those who offend: do not call sin sin. They make the offended feel like he is at fault for challenging hurtful behaviours.

As I read this thread, I notice one thing: is this issue predominately a female one? Somehow after reading the responses here to my question, I am getting this sense. Males think logically; females thing emotionally. Males sometimes think emotionally as well and sometimes females thing logically - seems to make a difference on the issue. And maybe this is an issue that deals more with the emotions?

ginnyrose

As I read this thread, I notice one thing: is this issue predominately a female one? Somehow after reading the responses here to my question, I am getting this sense. Males think logically; females thing emotionally. Males sometimes think emotionally as well and sometimes females thing logically - seems to make a difference on the issue. And maybe this is an issue that deals more with the emotions?

Or...maybe males are just better at hiding it. You are right I think. Because of the unique way God has wired us I do think females may experience this to a greater degree.

I think I understand what you are all saying, and I don't think we disagree in what is going on. But we have to be careful how we couch it. We are discussing biblical issues but using psychological and emotional language. Forgiveness and guilt have nothing to do with how we feel. The terminology of "forgiving yourself" is loaded with all kinds of errors rooted in postmodernism/new age philosophy.

What you all are describing (I think) is how do we deal with the despair that can go along with sin. The answer to that is to recognize, believe, and walk in the truth of scripture: that God forgives those who are in Christ and will remove their sins far from them.

Again, I don't think we are disagreeing about anything (at least in Christian Practice), but I am warning about how we communicate biblical truth.

Greetings Ginnyrose

I was actually sharing this thread with my husband tonight. I asked him what he thought about the term forgiving yourself. He said that to him forgiving yourself(after seeking Gods forgiveness) is the same as letting go of the sin and walking in His forgiveness.
Edited
God Bless
mj

Greetings BeYeDoers

I am warning about how we communicate biblical truth.

My husband did say he saw the wisdom in this warning also. He did agree that when talking with unsaved people we do need to chose our words carefully.

God Bless
mj

I find this idea that 'forgiving oneself' is a new-age term strange. Seems to me this idea was around before I ever heard of new-age. Anyhow, be that as it may...

So you do not want to call it 'forgiving oneself' but 'despair. Makes me no difference. Call it what you will, it is the idea I am concerned about.

Let me share a case in point. I am 62 YO, birthed 5 children of whom all have grown to adulthood. Some are walking with the LORD and couple are not. As I look back on their childhood, I greatly regret some things I did. Most are rooted in being so dreadfully human, but I could have done better. I was weak because I was so tired so much. I was not sensitive enough to know my child's needs and then work to meet them. I grieve for my failures. And the enemy will work to exaggerate my memories. And then I wonder if these things are a cause for two of my children to spurn the LORD?

Then I noticed something in the WORD. God parented Adam and Eve. They had a perfect parent, perfect environment, everything perfect. But they still disobeyed God and God had to discipline them by making them wear clothes and sent them out of the home He had provided for them. He made life hard, difficult for them: males work by the sweat of their brow and women have pain in childbirth and are to serve their husbands. Human nature is selfish, thinks only about his own personal desires and pursues its satisfaction at all levels. This is why humans sin. Adam and Eve sinned with outside provocation; people since then sin because of a fallen human nature. So, maybe, my failures as a mom were not as profound as the devil would have me to believe else why did some children choose to serve God?

(Son #3 has told me how he had the opportunity to use alcohol and I do not know what all, but he said he chose not to in contrast to his brother 3 years younger. How can that happen? Both had the same teaching.)

This is exposing some of the trials a parent encounters after the children have left the nest, and are some of the issues elderly parents have to deal with.

Do I forgive myself? I have to. I cannot wallow around in self-pity, whipping myself with guilt. God knows I have repented, and have worked hard to make amends, but one still wonders in moments of realizing the awfulness of the eternal destiny of those that spurn Him.....

ginnyrose

EDIT: To those who do not like the term 'forgiving oneself' what would you call the idea I just presented? Seems to me 'forgiving oneself' describes it perfectly.

I think it is valuable to examine this idea as it occurs in reality before God. This is what I have witnessed of people being freed from this: “I just can't forgive my self”. They have experienced it in varying degrees. Some hounded by it, others returning to the “re-experience of guilt” just periodically (“a wave of guilt” returning apropos of nothing). Some never having experienced the forgiveness of God on the issue, eventually came up with the idea it must that they have not forgiven themselves. It has also become a popular idea in “Christian psychology” circles. I will list what I have learned from examples of people that got this resolved.

“I just can't forgive my self”: You are correct. You cannot forgive yourself. Only God can forgive. We can seek/receive the forgiveness of God for sin when the Holy Spirit has convicted us of SIN (forgiveness is with respect to sin alone). You can seek reconciliation with the one you sinned against. They may or may not be able to forgive you (their level of maturity/Christ-likeness). When the Holy Spirit has directed you to seek reconciliation and you have obeyed in identifying your sin and asking their forgiveness, their forgiveness of you is between them and God alone.

How is it that you cannot forgive yourself regarding one specific sin, while that was not a problem with so many others? That should be a tip-off something is askew.

So whatever can/does it mean that when God has forgiven us of SIN, and we say or experience “I just can't forgive my self”? From what I have witnessed it is worth examining ourselves in these circumstances. Do you have a higher standard than God? Who has the authority and power to forgive sin. What does it mean to seek forgiveness from self? Exactly how likely is the religious old man to forgive you, let alone be able to (this is a renewed mind issue). Put another way: Who is the “I” in that sentence and who is the “self,”

Did God direct reconciliation/restitution which was not obeyed (saying no to God, pride interfering with humility, etc. which effects our experience and can confuse)? How clear and specific was the conviction of sin AS SIN?

This can be a faith/doubt issue involved regarding God's forgiveness. How far is the east from the west if we can hold onto what God has cast away. Was there thanking God for his forgiveness (thanking is the first step of faith when forgiveness, or anything, is received). We should not forget discerning the accuser of the brethren and the shield of faith.

Once in a case of forgiveness regarding abortion, there was a confusion of guilt regarding not giving testimony of forgiveness blocking/refusing God's working together all things for good (Romans 8:28). After testimony, a wonderful ministry opened to this woman. Her experience of “guilt” had nothing to do with “forgiving herself.”

I can recall one unusual example in which the person was often reminded of their having not forgiven another, in the midst of repeatedly seeking forgiveness for their sin. They had repeated experience of receiving God's forgiveness (or comfort regarding that) but it seemed temporary as the experience of guilt returned. When they dealt with their un-forgiveness as sin, the issue was settled. I thought this was a wonderful example of God teaching Mathew 6: 14-15 to a “stubborn” child of God.

[b]I am persuaded by the Word of God and by the works of God I have seen that the forgiveness of God is complete.[/b] I think every case is extremely specific and revealable only by the Holy Spirit of God to the individual. Things I have seen involved include growth in Him, continued renewing the mind on some specific Truth, and greater freedom from bondage. Is this not always the case with us?

I know others like Twayneb posted similar ideas, and as I post this I see there are many other posts here that I have not read. These come from testimony. Hope they help.

My original question was "The concept of self-forgiveness is not a Biblical one, the Bible does not teach it". Are you saying is not true? Is this correct? That all sin which is under the blood, forgiven by God, must also be forgiven by the individual? Is this what you are saying?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

My thoughts to everyone!

I haven’t been on here in a while and wasn’t going to come back on but this thread has compelled me to do so.

I believe that to forgive self is not biblical because there is never any mention of it in scripture. We have no right to ourselves. We are bought with a price and not our own. We are told to deny ourselves. We only have one Lord and master to whom we are to give an account. All sin is against God primarily and we need only to seek his forgiveness by confessing to Him who is faithful and just to forgive us and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness by the precious blood of Christ. We are also to ask the forgiveness of others whom we have wrong and also to forgive others who have wronged us because we have been forgiven by our Lord. We are only free from condemnation by believing in our Lord’s promise of forgiveness to us. Our freedom from condemnation is never based on others forgiving us or us forgiving ourselves because we are only to have one Lord over us.

We are not to live unto ourselves any more but unto him who died for us and rose again.
A failure to fully believe in the cleansing blood of Christ for all sin is the only reason one would not be totally free from guilt. We must believe God’s word concerning sin and forgiveness so that he can totally free us from ourselves. We should never resurrect the old man, he does not need forgiveness for he was crucified with Christ. We are not supposed to make our old man feel better; we are to put our old self off.

Blessings to all!

Ginny, what I am saying is that what you are doing is NOT forgiving yourself. What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair. The issue is that the one offended forgives.

Do you understand where I am going? Sin needs forgiven. You don't sin against yourself. So therefore "forgiving yourself" is meaningless. Only in a society where you are your own God do you forgive yourself and move on. You are discussing what do we do with the feelings accompanying our sin. Feelings have nothing to do with forgiveness.

I'm not trying to pick a fight :-)
Just trying to make sure we are clear not only with how we handle sin, but how we communicate that. Communication will affect our theology.

My original question was "The concept of self-forgiveness is not a Biblical one, the Bible does not teach it". Are you saying is not true? Is this correct? That all sin which is under the blood, forgiven by God, must also be forgiven by the individual? Is this what you are saying?

Are you asking if both God and myself must forgive me if I am to stand forgiven???

I think I understand what you are all saying, and I don't think we disagree in what is going on. But we have to be careful how we couch it. We are discussing biblical issues but using psychological and emotional language. Forgiveness and guilt have nothing to do with how we feel. The terminology of "forgiving yourself" is loaded with all kinds of errors rooted in postmodernism/new age philosophy. What you all are describing (I think) is how do we deal with the despair that can go along with sin. The answer to that is to recognize, believe, and walk in the truth of scripture: that God forgives those who are in Christ and will remove their sins far from them. Again, I don't think we are disagreeing about anything (at least in Christian Practice), but I am warning about how we communicate biblical truth.

Brother is this ever true. It is difficult to discuss things even on SI because when one uses "church" terminology of any sort, the words are pre-loaded with various meanings depending on the theology one is brought up under. I find myself having to carefully define terms, and even that is not enough to avoid passing each other in a conversation because we are not on the same set of tracks. The point I was trying to make was merely this. Once God has forgiven me, I need not carry that thing around, enforcing shame and condemnation on myself. To do so is to frustrate the grace of God.

Travis.

Ginny, what I am saying is that what you are doing is NOT forgiving yourself. What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair. The issue is that the one offended forgives.

Beyedoers: I think you said what I was saying better than I was saying it. I would call this forgiving yourself, or at least releasing yourself from it (to get rid of the "loaded" term forgiveness).

Travis

BeYeDoers wrote:

"What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair."

I agree.

BeYeDoers quote:

"You don't sin against yourself."

I disagree. Consider 1 Corinthians 6:18. Fornication is sinning against your own body, hence the difficulty of overcoming this sin because the flesh is ever converted. Here one can see the separation of the flesh vs the spirit. Do you understand this?

We are commanded to crucify the flesh because it gets us into trouble. Paul talks much about this tension in Romans 7 and 8. There is a disconnect between the spirit and the flesh. In the flesh we do terrible things which grieves the spirit. They are at war. Sometimes the flesh does horrific things which you later regret; you hate yourself for having succumbed to it. So how are you going to deal with this disgust? You will say you have to repent and seek God's forgiveness and in this you also are going to have to accept the fact that you need to forgive your flesh for having lured you into sin. Does this make sense?

QUOTE:

"This term is not found in Scripture "forgiving yourself"."

My answer: True. However, Christians use lots of terms, words not found in Scripture to describe a Biblical concept. Let me list a few of the most popular terms used: Trinity, theocracy, Inerrant, Eschatology, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omniscience. No one would ever deny the use of these terms because they are not found in Scripture, would they? (I have learned that when talking to JW's to never use a theological terms because they give them different meanings then evangelical Christianity does.)

Another real-life situation. Millions of people have had their babies aborted. Some have repented of this sin. Are you aware of the grief, the hate they have for themselves for having succumbed to this sin? Sure they ask God for forgiveness and they receive it, but the memory comes back to haunt them. You cannot repair this sin - it is final, no practical remedy exists to fix it: you simply have to accept the fact you did this dreadful thing and that God has now forgiven you. Accepting this fact is the essence of 'self-forgiveness'. Understand this?

Does this all make sense? Or are we talking pass each other?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

You are absolutely right - have you ever considered how Peter must have felt every morning he heared the cock crow, after his vehement denials and blasphemings against his Lord?! especially after his words of reassurance to Jesus beforehand, no wonder he wept when Jesus asked if he truly loved Him! - but Jesus reassured him and gave him the responsibility to 'feed His lambs'Jesus showed absolute forgiveness and trust in him, yet Peter had to also accept this love and forgiveness and move on to become the man God wanted him to be.

Judas was full of remorse for betraying Jesus but couldn't come to repentance and know God's forgiveness and ended in suicide.

How Saul must have felt after his conversion, knowing that he was the most fervent persecutor of the Church and now was preaching to men and women whose families he'd put to death!
We forget that these people are still human as the rest of us and must have battled with the most awful remorse and regrets.

This area in our mind and memory is such a playground for the enemy if we allow it.
We know God forgives and chooses to forget, but many can't forgive themselves and let it all go, and in so doing still struggle to accept God's forgiveness and love and live in bondage and self-condemnation, never fully able to move on with the Lord.
The enemy will constantly remind of the wrongs in our past and here is where we choose how to respond, either we listen to his wispers and sink under guilt, self condemnation and feelings of dirt and unworthiness - or we rise up against the enemy and say 'no, I have repented and know I am forgiven and am cleansed by His blood, so no matter what memories you throw at me God doesn't remember them any more so I also choose not to think of them!
We have to let go and forgive ourselves also!

There are many scriptures of God's love and forgiveness and most are assurances that we are forgiven - if these assurances weren't needed God wouldn't have bothered to constantly re-assure us!
Forgiveness is a gift we accept and use, we have to make a concious effort to forgive ourselves and learn to live in forgiveness, forgiving others as we are forgiven.

I too look back at my poor choices and where I came short of the glory of God and I asked the Lord one day, how can I love you so very much and still make such choices. The Lord is so wonderful to reply. He said, look at my servant David. Wow. I knew about David but when the H.S. shows us something it is deep and alive and freeing. Then it came. OMG! This is why Jesus came - to set the captives free! So when I have repented - turned the other way - I am walking in the forgiveness of my Lord and I am putting a smile on His face for He did not die in vain for me. Man says judgment but God says mercy. So, this sinner can joy in my Salvation and put a smile on her Lord's face by walking in His forgiveness. Our Lord says He has made us white as snow and that He remembers our sins no more as is the East from the West. So if people or my own mind like to bring up my past I say, hmmm take it to my Lord if you will and see what He has to say! Cause I am causing my Lord to smile!!! In Christ, Sheri

ps I pray there is something in this that will cause someone to be set free - cause when the Lord sets us free - we are free indeed! Amen

Greetings

I have been praying about this since Ginnyrose posted it. I just wanted to say that I have really been blessed by some of the posts especially from the moms, I know all to well the heart that has been shared and it is so comforting to know we can walk in Him knowing we are forgiven. Thank you to everyone for sharing your heart on this I am really learning so much and still coming to understand:)

God Bless
maryjane