marriage?

A friend of mine is getting married, her name is Sara. She has been courting this guy for a year now. They have never been alone together. All of their time together has been with others present because they wanted to make sure that there was not ever any chance for compromise(I think this was a good thing). When she told me she was getting married she said that her fiance is really wonderful guy and that she feels very blessed that they are both on the same page spiritually where marriage is concerned. She talked a lot of their friendship but she did not mention anything about being in love, which I kind of thought was odd. I asked her how he proposed and she said that they discussed the idea of marriage, prayed about it and both felt led that they are to marry. I was confused by that so I asked her again how he proposed and she said that he did not actually propose in a traditional way. She said they came to an agreement that getting married would be beneficial for the two of them and how they could best serve the Lord. So they are going to get married. I asked her if she was sure she really loved him enough to want to spend the rest of her life with him and she said that I did not understand their relationship. She said that they were not in love like the way the world likes to portray love. She said that she loves him but she is not romantically in love with him(nor him with her)She said they are very compatible and that they care for each other but they agreed that they would not allow themselves to get caught up in the worldly notions of love and marriage. She said they have prayed about this and feel strongly that they are making the right choice.

Any way she asked me to be a part of her wedding(a very simple ceremony coming up) and I told her that I would, but honestly I am having second thoughts. I mean from listening to her talk they are getting married for very practical reasons, but nothing else. I don't want to see my friend make a huge mistake, shouldn't she be "in love" with the guy she wants to marry and spend the rest of her life with?

Not sure what to do
ebeth

I think she gave you an honest answer. My opinion only, but if this is her and his first marriage, and they invited you to partake in that blessing... be a blessing.

What would you tell her if you pulled out? "I think that love should look like this, instead of that..." Do you truly know her heart? I by no means am saying not to voice your concerns for her well being to her directly, but if she is set on marrying him and vise versa, why would you want to talk her out of getting married?

I would highly suggest, for anyone thinking and praying about marriage, to get some marriage counciling from a solid Godly couple. A couple that have shown and lived over time, and not just in the church building, that their marriage is on solid ground and based around the Lord.

Blessings sister.

Genesis 2v24, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.'

Let me say this, whether they love each other or not, is not your problem.

It's their's.

However, it says in Ephesians 5 for husbands to love their wives, and for the wife to respect her husband.

Most churches give little teaching on marriage and what is involved concerning the word of God.

Most Christians get their 'teachings' from the world and don't give two bits what the word of God says.

Sadly, in the future, they could end up getting divorced, and I think that is what is concerning you.

But, truly, the ball is in their court as to what they do.

God bless.

Ebeth,

Be in the wedding with them and for her! The Lord has allowed you the privilege of witnessing something different from up close and personal. The Lord might want you to learn something!

Let’s look at the history of people marrying without being in love, especially in the Lord... thousands of years of it worked through people's Godly obedience.

All of sudden , we get modernized and think we have to have romance and to "fall in love" to be happy and the divorce rate skyrockets for 1st timers, we won’t even go into 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th timers! But my point for even bringing this up is that some of these people didn’t want to burn they wanted to marry for that “romance and falling in love” and sadly, that [b]concept[/b] has wrecked more people’s hopes and emotions possibly anything.

Onward to positive things, the Lord told Derek Prince to marry both His wives. He barely knew one and was not even good friends with the other when the Lord told him to do this. He obeyed the Lord and they had to obey the Lord too. They had wonderful marriages! He definitely didn’t marry the world’s way! (I think he has a book about it)

I’m rooting for your friends!! And I hope you are too!

God bless you Ebeth!!

I would encourage you to be in the wedding as well.

With care in Christ...

Yesterday was our 35th wedding anniversary. I only believed I was in love with my husband when I married him. After 35 years, I KNOW what loving, and being loved is about.

I believe your friend and her future husband are on the Narrow Path and that their marriage will be blessed because they have their eye on Jesus.

We were backslidden when we married and I am constantly amazed and humbled at how thoroughly Jesus guided us then, even though we did not choose to follow Him as we should have.

Go and dance at her wedding, you will be glad you did.

white stone

Hi

Thanks for all the great responses. I really appreciate the honesty in them. Please don't think I am trying to push my view on to my friend of what marriage should be.(still trying to figure that one out myself)I just want to be sure that as her friend I am giving her prayer and support in what the Lord has for her. Marrying this guy for all I know may be exactly what is in the Lords heart but I don't think I would be much of a friend if I did not go and pray with her and talk with her about my concerns. She told me she would expect no less from me. So then I got a call from Sara this morning and we talked some more.(she could sense my concern for her when we spoke the last time) So she has asked me to come over so we can talk some more. She is a very honest person and knows that there are some of her friends and family that are concerned about her decision(specially because she did just turn twenty and marriage is a huge step) I told her I will be happy to come over and listen to what she has to share with me. I will say this Sara has always had the heart to walk in the Lords will and as someone said here I think I may just end up walking away from this whole thing having learned a great deal about love and marriage from my friend:)

Thank you again for sharing with me. Good things were posted here and I will be praying and considering them as I go to speak with Sara today.

love in Him
ebeth

This is such a foreign topic for me because I'm single...but I want what it says in Song Of Solomon. I don't think there's anything wrong with romance.

I see some couples, like Derek Prince, marry people God told him to marry (without the feelings at first) and then I see other couple who get the feelings right away, keep the momentum going, and everything works out.

It seems like God lets some people chose there spouse, meaning they just fall in love and then get married. Other times, it seems God has someone specific for them and it has nothing to deal with romance. I don't know.

The bible has both cases. What do you think?

i think that god brings two people together in different ways i have a question for you Santana.

Krispy,

It's kinda like a person I know who used to be a family and parenting counselor who at that time had never been married and did not have a child of her own. Makes no sense.

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO...just kidding. I'm sure you were were expecting some kind of counter-attack or something.

This is a side note. Growing up catholic, I never understood how Priests gave marital/children counseling.

I will second Krispy's thoughts here. Love is an ACTION, a choice, not an emotion. "Anything you can fall into, you can fall out of."

I would say by what you initially described that they DO love each other, which is exactly why they have approached their relationship this way.

Dear Mr Krispy

You wrote:

If you yourself are not married I would recommend you go and listen to your friend and refrain from offering advice. You may actually find yourself advising them against the Lord.

I will not be offering my friend any advice(i find when people do that they usually are coming from self angle any way. I should add that I think advice and Godly council are two different things) I will pray with her, listen to her and ask her questions as the Lord puts them on my heart, I want the very best for her so I will listen.

Edit: I removed some of this post because I was concerned the way it was written it may have come across other then how I meant it to:) besides it wasn't really important to the conversation.

Thank you though for sharing your wisdom with me as an older brother in Christ. I do take your council to heart and would never do anything to hurt my friend or to persuade her against what she honestly feels the Lord leading her to do. I do want to go with an open heart and listen to her, I always want to be open to what the Lord has for me to learn and grow in. I have no delusions of thinking I have all the answers. I just want to support her as the Lord would have me to.

May I ask you a question, do you feel that romance or romantic love is an important part of a marriage? If so how or what does it look like in a christian marriage? Believe me when I ask I do not want to be one who looks to Hollywood for their understanding.

Thanks for spending some time today talking with me.

love in Him
ebeth

May I ask you a question, do you feel that romance or romantic love is an important part of a marriage?

Yes

If so how or what does it look like in a christian marriage?

It can look like many different things. Removing the ways of the world, I would say the following...

Sacrifice...honoring your spouse more then yourself...dieing to yourself...loving when the other does not love back...giving more then you receive...patience...forgiveness...being a Christ like example...lifting up instead of tearing down...picking up your cross daily, hourly, every minute...placing your needs and wants last...being kind and gentle...treating them better then yourself.

Sacrifice...honoring your spouse more then yourself...dieing to yourself...loving when the other does not love back...giving more then you receive...patience...forgiveness...being a Christ like example...lifting up instead of tearing down...picking up your cross daily, hourly, every minute...placing your needs and wants last...being kind and gentle...treating them better then yourself.

That doesn't sound romantic at all. Sounds more like death. =)

I've heard about this "concept" of love and marriage but so far I've never personally met a couple who decided to marry just because they felt like God led them ... speaking for a woman I honestly have to say that it would be almost impossible for me to marry someone without some kind of "romantical" emotion involved. Living together, working for the Lord together, that would be all fine but the idea of being intimate without love - rather awkward... Maybe it's easier for men?!
Now I'm really curious about Derek Prince marriages. Is there maybe a sermon or can you read something about it online (or just in the books??)?

This is one honey of a thread! :-)

I love Krispy's take on this issue....

My husband was not given to romance much either before we married but he is NOW! We have been married for over 42 years and I love it! My hubby is so sweet! He is so romantic! (He did give me a sweet card yesterday and some roses!) You see, males are not always given to this mindset - they have to be taught by their wives and then you have to be willing to respond accordingly.

Yes, the idea comes from God, I just know it does - read Song of Solomon. But in order for it to blossom to its fullest potential it requires commitment, love for God (so you have a source to feed yours)and a selfless mindset - one that works to please the other.

I suggest you listen to Ravi Zacharias' sermon "I Take Thee, Rebecca". This deals with the issue of romance before marriage. (You may have to go to www.rzim.org to find this sermon.)

Blessings,
ginnyrose

That doesn't sound romantic at all. Sounds more like death. =)

Exactly. Death to oneself, two becoming one flesh. You cannot have true romance, unless you can die to yourself.

Good point my friend. =)

So I went to see my friend this afternoon. When I got there Sara and I spent a lot of time talking. She said that she could tell that I was concerned about her plans to get married and wanted me to tell her what was on my heart. I asked her a lot of questions about her feelings, about the two of them and what she was expecting to get out of marriage. I must say I was really moved by her response. She told me that she and Brad have been friends for a long time. She said that the reason they want to marry is because God has given them one another so that they can work together to help each other become more like Jesus and best serve His Kingdom. She said that the best way for her to explain what she is feeling is that in her heart she loves the Lord first and that she knows He has many things for her to accomplish for Him in her time here and that Brad is that one person that the Lord has for her to be with so that she can best accomplish those things. She knows that there will be difficulties and struggles but that is why she is thankful that the Lord has given her someone like Brad to share these things with. She said Brad is strong in all the areas where she is weak, and yet he is patient to help her in those areas as she grows in the Lord. She did admit that at one time before she was saved that she probably would have been really caught up with the idea of being the center of attention in the relationship with her fiance focusing only on her, but not any more. She does not want someone who is “in love” with her, but rather loves her in such a way to help and support her as she grows and matures into who the Lord has her to be. Knowing my own personal background as she does she was really understanding in answering my questions and I could see that she has thought long and hard on this. After about an hour Brad and his sister showed up, and we all got to talk some more. I did mention that I shared some of this with you all here and they were really supportive of me finally reaching out beyond my self imposed walls to other believers. Brad wanted to assure me that both he and Sara have prayed about this and know that they are walking in what the Lord has for them both. There may not have been fireworks, or the feel good all consuming kind of love that some couples have at our age, but I did see a genuine caring for one another. They are approaching this from the heart of wanting to lay down their lives to self for one another and look at this being a mutually beneficial way for them both to come together to serve the Lord.

So anyway their wedding is about three weeks away. They will be getting married in the backyard of his families home. His older brother will be performing the marriage vows, it will be a simple ceremony with the focus of the day being of Christ Jesus. There are some hurdles still, her side of the family is not fully supportive(they think she is being to extreme in her faith.) I will be there though and I am really glad that she and I got to talk.

There is much to understand concerning love, marriage and fully committing yourself to another person for the rest of your life.

love in Him
ebeth

ebeth,

If this couple loves the LORD like they say they do and will work to serve each other, the romance will come. And if it doesn't soon enough, then you will have to pray for it to come! Seriously. In any marriage there will be times when the fire burns low. The devil watches for those moments then he will work to wedge his toe into this relationship. God is watching, too, don't forget that. He is more interested in this marriage to succeed then they are - because this concept comes from God and he ordained it before the fall. If is not an after thought.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Dear ginnyrose

You wrote:

If this couple loves the LORD like they say they do and will work to serve each other, the romance will come. And if it doesn't soon enough, then you will have to pray for it to come!

Can you clarify what you wrote here for me? What do you mean exactly by the romance will come? Do you mean flowers and cards or something else?

Just trying to get a clear picture of what you mean.

love in Him
ebeth

Can you clarify what you wrote here for me? What do you mean exactly by the romance will come? Do you mean flowers and cards or something else?

The emotion that you think is missing from this relationship. Flowers and cards may come IF you let him know how much pleasure it gives you. Granted this does not sound romantic but males are NOT mind readers. The quicker a female knows and accepts that the happier she will be.

Does this make sense?

ginnyrose

Hey Ginnyrose

First just wanted to say thanks for taking time out of your day to talk these things over with me:)

you wrote:

The emotion that you think is missing from this relationship.

I think that is the one thing that I realized today, "I" thought that the emotion of love and romance was missing in my friends relationship but now I am seeing that I was way off.

You spoke about the devil getting a foot hold in a relationship if the fire burns low? So you feel this is the case in all marriages? I use to think this way but now I am not so sure. In my friends case neither of them have a desire for flowers and things. Sara is a very practical person and Brad seems to be the same, neither of them seem to feel as if anything is missing in their relationship. They both expressed a deep commitment to each other and to the Lord. They spoke so openly and honestly with each other that I actually found myself feeling a bit envious of their communication with one another. I wish I had had that(sigh)

Have you ever known someone and just see such a change in them, so completely that you find yourself staring in wonderment? I guess that is how I found myself this afternoon with my friend.(in a good way)

love in Him
ebeth

So you feel this is the case in all marriages? I use to think this way but now I am not so sure.

ebeth, I am not the judge, but I would guess this is the case for any couple in a covenant relationship. This is the marriage the devil works to destroy. Everytime.

If you were to read the stories of couples who went to Splitsville, you will always find that sin - strife, jealously, greed, lust, anger - dominated one or the other or both in that marriage. I have never heard of a covenant marriage ending up in divorce where both worked to serve the LORD by serving each other. It is possible that one partner may be so 'heavenly minded that he was no earthy good' but again 'he' was not in tune with the Spirit of God, either.

In my friends case neither of them have a desire for flowers and things. Sara is a very practical person and Brad seems to be the same, neither of them seem to feel as if anything is missing in their relationship.

I suggest you let them work this out. Krispy is right when he says that each couple's needs are different and how these are met is between them. Elizabeth, since this does not fit your ideal, just be assured they will work it out between them. It is no sin to not enjoy these little tokens of affection, but then their tokens may be so radically different from yours that you would find it very unromantic.

Krispy wrote:

I have a good friend in his early 30's... got married 1 1/2 years ago. On Valentine's Day (Sunday) he did not get his new bride any flowers, and forgot to sign the card he gave her.

...and now he wonders why he is sleeping with dog.

He is being taught by his wife how to be romantic!! Bet he won't make that mistake again!! lol

He asked me yesterday what I thought, I said "I think you're an idiot, my brutha!"

:-) Yes, this is one way a man learns....most hope their lesson won't be as dramatic! lol

ebeth, does this answer your question?
ginnyrose

Hey ginnyrose, Krispy or anyone who has some thoughts to share:)

Can i ask you do you think that a wife who expects things, attention, gifts ect. can give room to the enemy as well to attack their marriage? I mean if she makes it a demand? Also you mentioned that wives have to teach their husbands what they like and don't like, wondering do you think a better way to state this would be to say it is good for a wife to share her feelings and likes with her husband instead of use the term "teach him". I only ask because I think there can be a real danger for a wife to take on the attitude of being her husbands "teacher" as if she is smarter at relationships ect. This could lead to her usurping his authority in the marriage don't you think?

love in Him
ebeth

ps I was asking these questions now more for myself and not to do with my friend.

No matter how prepared ANYONE is before they get married... no one has any idea what it is like until you are smack dab in the middle of marriage.

______________________________

I would agree with this statement as well. I will add to this that the younger you are married the more difficult it is to adjust to married life. Being younger there tends to be less maturity, and unwillingness to give instead of always take.

with care in Him
ebeth

it is good for a wife to share her feelings and likes with her husband instead of use the term "teach him".

ebeth, males are wired different then females. Each perceives info differently. Males need to be told outright - they have no abilities to take a hint although I suspect Dr. Dobson might be the exception, but then I am not sure. (And I am sure he could tell you a few stories how he did not get the message that his wife Shirley intended for him to understand.) Females, on the other hand, are great in picking up innuendos, hints. We will read into people's statements more then what was literally said. This trait comes in handy when you are raising children. Too many times they will work to fool a parent and you need one who is perceptive enough to be able to pick this up when it happens.

The point is males have to to be told, hinting at what you want does not cut it. And they may have to be told more then once. Just be patient, like you want someone to be patient with you. I have even heard this taught from the pulpit by a male!

ebeth, getting married requires an act of faith. When we got married I started getting scared in the several days before the wedding: I am going to promise to be faithful to this fellow for the rest of MY life!!! Can I do it? Will he be able to...? I knew my husband for several years so why the fear? I have since learned this is not all that uncommon. So, why does one go ahead? You could very well say that God put something within the human mind to want to go ahead and take this risk.

It all comes down to faith. Just be glad you do not know everything that is in your future...

as if she is smarter at relationships ect.

Each gender brings something different into relationships. This can be observed in how males relate to each other as well as how females relate to each other. Males seem to be more dense about relationships then what females are hence the need for females to educate their men. Having said all this, women need men to provide a woman with some balance lest she goes off on the deep end and we tend to do so.

Elizabeth, may I suggest that you relax and don't fret. Once God brings a godly male to you, some of these questions will not longer be an issue. To think you need to figure it all out beforehand is a waste of spiritual and emotional energy.

Elizabeth, do you have no males in your family with which you have a loving relationship? Just wondering...

Did I answer your questions? Does it make sense?

ginnyrose

Ginnyrose

Yes you answered my questions thank you. Did not mean to pester you with so many, I have been told i can be a bit to inquisitive at times. I am working on that.

I have reasons for seeking to better understand marriage but its confusing and complicated. Its hard for me to share sometimes, its a long and for the most part boring story that not many want to hear.

You asked if I had any Godly males in my family, no I do not. My dad has been gone for a long time now. What other family I have, none are saved.

again sorry about all the questions
ebeth

Elizabeth,

Now I understand your questions. As I was writing this most recent post, I suddenly got this sense that you do not have a godly male role model, hence these questions. Since this is the case, I say fire away. And forgive me if I come across as being impatient. I do not want to be so, but patience is not my strongest character trait.

God bless you, Elizabeth....we are here to help, encourage. All of us need it at different times - good thing it does not happen all at the same time..

Take care and ask more if you do not understand...

ginnyrose

I will add to this that the younger you are married the more difficult it is to adjust to married life. Being younger there tends to be less maturity, and unwillingness to give instead of always take.

ELizabeth, the old people used to say that the older you are when you enter marriage the more difficult the adjustments because you have gotten so entrenched in your ways and are not as willing to get out of your rut to accommodate someone else in their rut.

I am not so sure about moderns, though. Years ago when this was the case, most people grew up on the farm, had responsibilities and could take charge at a very young age. Families were larger and you learned what it meant to work together. Todays modern youth grew up in the city with none of these life experiences to teach them how to work and relate to others profitably.

So, my answer to this question is that one must evaluate each situation on its own merits. Some may be more mature at 19 then one at 29. Could happen.

The maturity level to look for in a marriage partner is how self-absorbed is this person? Does he/she think of others and their welfare? How I can best help them? Is this person always thinking of himself/herself and their wants take first priority in everything? The answer to these questions is obvious - and unfortunately, age does not guarantee maturity.

This is my take on this question - wonder what others will say?

ginnyrose

Greetings ginnyrose and ebeth

Having gotten married very young myself, I will say that there are some challenges that can be harder to overcome when marrying young. Younger couples tend to have greater financial troubles because often jobs and practical things are not in place as they maybe with couples who marry later in life. However I agree that as far as maturity and living together goes marriage is difficult no matter how old you are or how long your married and that is why it is vital that each be firmly rooted in Christ Jesus. I have known some couples who get married later in life and talk about some of the same silly things that my husband and I went through when we first got married, like socks left on the floor or leaving a dirty glass on the cupboard instead of in the sink. Whether a marriage is going to be successful or not comes down to one thing...is each person willing to lay down their life, die to self, and live in submission to Jesus as head of their lives? IF the answer is yes then each will willingly want to put their spouse before self and although there will be struggles many of them can and will be overcome together because the two are now living for the Lord and not self.

I have some other thoughts that I have been praying about concerning the topic of romance in a marriage. I think the one thing that God is really truly pushing home for me is that the expression of loving your spouse is different for each couple and that there really is no one size fits all answer. I use to spend so much time comparing my relationship with my husband to others around me and all I can say is that is a really unnecessarily painful road to go down. I have been learning that the greatest demonstration of love that I can or will ever express to my husband is to die to self and to look for opportunities to help, support, and yes even serve him. The more I die to self in the area of my marriage the less ammunition I give the enemy to fire at it.

God Bless
maryjane

I have been learning that the greatest demonstration of love that I can or will ever express to my husband is to die to self and to look for opportunities to help, support, and yes even serve him. The more I die to self in the area of my marriage the less ammunition I give the enemy to fire at it.

Absolutely true.

While this may sound dreadful, in reality it is very rewarding. When you work to please the other and do it with cheerfulness, he will love you and this will feed the desire to please - and interesting cycle and a satisfying one.

Having said all this, a husband is not god. He will do stupid and sometimes hurtful things because he is human. And so will you. When hurtful things happen you will have to communicate this to each other in a calm manner so the other will understand and correct his/her ways.

To have a successful marriage requires one to maintain a forgiving mentality 24/7 with no letup. When this becomes the norm, satisfaction will result. When you choose otherwise, conflict will become the norm and then nobody is happy.

Excellent post, MaryJane.

ginnyrose

hey

When hurtful things happen you will have to communicate this to each other in a calm manner so the other will understand and correct his/her ways. To have a successful marriage requires one to maintain a forgiving mentality 24/7 with no letup.

What do you do though when the other person will not forgive you, even after a long time? You are right learning to speak to your spouse calmly and not let emotions get carried away is very important in a marriage.

thanks again for everything
love in Him
ebeth

Elizabeth, you are a keen observer! After I wrote I wondered if you will be asking this question!

What do you do though when the other person will not forgive you, even after a long time?

I suppose you are referring to a wife who is inflicted with this spirit. Females seem to have a greater problem with this then males although males do, too, but not as often. The reason is because females are more emotional and get hurt easier. Since a wife is to submit to her husband and when he messes up she feels betrayed because she had put so much confidence and trust in him.

What to do when a spouse does not forgive? Sister, this unforgiving spirit has destroyed too many marriages and is a factor in the unhappiness of many. To be frank with you, I do not know that there is a solution that will fix it apart from an intervention of the Holy Spirit.

I know of a case - close to me - where this was the case. The wife made life hard for her husband and her children by her critical, unforgiving attitude. She was a very religious woman. When confronted she would go into a rage or act very meek and contrite, depending who was doing the confronting. The next day it was back to the old lifestyle of criticism.

Anyhow, what this husband did was pray, and pray a lot. He cried much. And prayed some more. The children in the family rose up and called him blessed but not the mom. The husband stayed in the marriage because he had vowed to God that he would and that only death can cancel that vow.

Elizabeth, your next question is how can I avoid marrying someone like this? Are there warning signs out there? Sure there are but this does not mean that something like this cannot develop after a wedding and infect a spouse.

The primary trait that will contribute to an unforgiving attitude is plain old-fashioned selfishness. One who is self-absorbed, one who thinks the world revolves around him/her, one who does not live to serve others but think the world and his/her spouse should live to serve him/her. And when people do not satisfy this self-absorbed person, resentment flows in like a flood and will live there and fester making life unhappy for themselves and everyone within earshot.

My thoughts, maybe someone else has something else, something better...it would be nice...

Does this make sense?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Greeting snufalapugus

All I can say is I completely disagree with just about everything you wrote in your post. There is a lot of presumptions and skepticism in what you have written. Also you should take note that the couple being talked about did not say they do not love each other, they said they were not "in love" as in the way "the world" likes to portray it. As in all the "Hollywood" hype of what love, romance, ect is.

This couple will face struggles as any married couple does but as long as their focus is on Jesus they will make it. They are already way ahead of most couples because they are willing to die to self and consider the other above themselves. Marriage is work and it is a ongoing daily dieing of self so that Jesus can shine in the lives of both you and your spouse. Marriage is filled with wonderful joy and blessings as well, to be able to share all of life's moments with that one other person is a true gift from the Lord.

Honestly I am not in love with my husband the way "the world or Hollywood movies" likes to portray it either, and he is not in love with me that way. Who would want that selfish, kind of self absorbed, sinful attitude in their Christian marriage any way? This girl said that she loves her future husband, she said she cares for him and that she wants to be his help and support, sounds to me like they are on pretty solid ground.

I know you said that you were commenting on the first post, maybe it would help if you read the follow up post from her friend, its on page two of the thread at the bottom.

God Bless
maryjane

Please I want to make one thing clear about my post, I am not saying romance is wrong.(flowers, love notes, gifts are all wonderful) What I am saying is that the attitudes of trying to make a marriage fit into the "worldly, Hollywood" mold of romance is not something we as Christian should be looking for in our marriage.

Greetings ginnyrose

While this may sound dreadful, in reality it is very rewarding. When you work to please the other and do it with cheerfulness, he will love you and this will feed the desire to please - and interesting cycle and a satisfying one.

I agree with you here. My only regret is that it took me so long to see this in my own marriage. Its amazing but even in that silly old saying of "you can attract more flies with honey then vinegar" is really true. Sharing with my husband calmly and with a loving Christ like heart instead of yelling and demanding has made such a huge difference in our marriage.

Having said all this, a husband is not god. He will do stupid and sometimes hurtful things because he is human. And so will you.

I agree with this to:) although for me personally I will add that the wife is not ever head of the house either. That was a really hard one for me to die to but praise God because He showed me how so many of my attitudes were killing my marriage and I did not even see it at the time. Learning to die to self where my husband was concerned and learning to trust him and submit to him as the head of the house was really difficult but I knew it was vital if I wanted my marriage to last and if I wanted to obey Jesus.

To have a successful marriage requires one to maintain a forgiving mentality 24/7 with no letup. When this becomes the norm, satisfaction will result. When you choose otherwise, conflict will become the norm and then nobody is happy.

Forgiveness is especially important to a married couple. If I can think of one single thing that will destroy a marriage quicker then anything else I would say it is unforgivness. Holding on to past hurts and wrongs allows bitterness to take hold and once it begins to weave its deadly poison on the heart of either spouse the marriage itself is in real danger. Self and the enemy love to feed off of unforgivness.

Wow being married really is a place where the two come together to become one and learn to follow Jesus and die to self in the quickest possible way:) Thanks ginnyrose I really love hearing your thoughts on these things. Actually these threads on love and marriage have really made me examine my own marriage and in a way that may not be obvious to others I have really gained such an appreciation for my dh. God is so good to us, He opens my eyes up to things that I would not see with out Him.

God Bless
maryjane

I am being misunderstood BIG TIME.

If I did misunderstand your post then I apologies and ask that you would forgive me. It is hard to sometimes know exactly what the heart of the person is behind their post.

God Bless
maryjane

Edited: I reread your post again and wanted to say thanks for edited and removing the last part

Today as I was working my thoughts went to this thread and the last question ebeth asked. Then I remembered something - her age and popular culture.

Elizabeth was [likely] born after Roe v Wade in which abortion was legalized. The probability is now that many who post here on SI have either been involved with this procedure or have friends and relatives who have. It has become so commonplace.

It is a well known fact that abortion is not without its victims. First you have the child that was aborted and then you have the mother of the child, the father and the ones who did the procedure. Now I would like to focus on the mother.

Females are by nature much more emotional - we all know this. We get hurt easily, we cry easily and we can get angry, upset at real or perceived wrongs. We have the motherly instinct that works to protect and nurture her offspring. These are all God given and are to be protected.

Many females will abort their child for practical reasons - can't afford a child, am too busy, poor, the dad is not supportive, etc. Most females know instinctively this is wrong or sin but will go ahead with it anyways because they do not see how they can care for the child. Since the mother knows this is wrong, she will go into denial, convincing herself that her circumstances will justify this decision.

The guilt then may go underground where it will lie and eventually it will fester and resurface into some other problem that appears to be completely unrelated. She will have any combination of emotional upsets: nightmares; abuse drugs; angry at life, at males; shop when children are less likely be around. For some this may happen soon after the event, or it may wait as long as twenty years after the abortion to become apparent. Some stats will say that 80% of all women who abort will experience this, others say 100%.

The reason I am telling you this is that since Roe v Wade there has been a rise in child abuse, divorces and STD's. There are many wives who are angry because they have been victimized because of this sin and it is destroying marriages, homes and the husband will likely not know what is wrong with this crazy woman. Really! she has become crazy - and it takes a skilled counselor to be able to sort through the issues that bedevil this woman to discover what is at the root of her craziness.

We can say that God will forgive this sin, this is true, but the process of experiencing this forgiveness is a very painful and traumatic process emotionally - she has to recognize, admit she killed her child, and go through a grieving process before she can be healed emotionally, and spiritually. The process of cleansing is time consuming.

Elizabeth, do you understand what I am saying? The short of the long is that many 'Christian' females have been victimized by their sin of immorality and then abortion and this interferes with her ability to bond with a husband, to trust him and to love her children out of a heart of love and not be tainted by quilt. If this has been in anyone's background you must experience a real, deep cleansing by the Holy Spirit in order to succeed in marriage. This process includes sharing with your fiance` your history and solicit his assistance in help you because you have been weakened by sin and need lots of restoring. And the groom will do well to educate himself to know how he can best help her.

Ebeth, I worked at a Crises Pregnancy Center for 15 years, hence my concern for this issue. I hope you understand the point I am making: many brides today have impaired their ability to make a good marriage because of sin. It can be done, but, oh! the journey will be rough...

If I failed to make anything clear, just ask...

Wishing God's best on all...

ginnyrose

Hi

I have really been struggling with something and even though this is really hard for me I felt like I should clear some things up and be honest about who I am. My name is Ellie and I am going to be turning twenty one this year. The thing that many of you do not know about me is that I am married. I have portrayed myself as being single because of the present situation that I am in. I got married just after I turned seventeen years old. I was very young, very immature and completely “in love” with my husband. My husband is a year older then I am. I have known my husband for along time, we grew up in the same small town and when we were in high school we started dating. Jase and I come from really different backgrounds. His family are all professing Christians, while I came from a broken home with no real religious background. My dad left mom when I was younger and has little to do with us since then. I never went to church until I started dating Jase. He invited me along with him to his youth group, this was my first real contact with others that followed Jesus. Jase and I dated pretty seriously for a year and half and I never felt so connected to anyone else in my life. I was completely in love with him, from the moment we shared our first kiss I knew I wanted to be with him forever. Jase felt the same way, we planned that after he graduated he would go to state University and we would keep in touch and see each other on breaks while I finished my senior year of high school. After I graduated we were going to go to University together and then see what the Lord had for us from there. We had talked this all through but then just before Jase graduation I freaked out about him going away and got really upset that we would break up. I hated the thought of him being gone from me and away at school so we decided to get married instead. I convinced my mom to sign the parental permission and we got married after Jase graduated.

Jase parents were not happy about our change in plans but they were supportive. They own a ranch with a lot of property. His parents gave us a place to live, a converted apartment over the garage was our first place. Jase stayed home and went to the local community college and worked with his dad at the ranch instead of heading off to University. I finished my last year of high school during our first year of marriage.

When we were first married I had a lot of expectations on what I thought marriage was suppose to be. I wanted to make things work (not like my parents marriage) Jase worked a ton of hours and then went to school full time too. He has always been a really driven person and needs to do well in everything that he does. I am completely different and a lot more easy going. From almost the beginning of our marriage we struggled with the little things. Things I never thought we would fight over often became full blown battles.

During our second year of marriage things seemed to only get worse and I got even more demanding and controlling. The more we fought the more worried and afraid I became that he didn't love me anymore. I hated having to spend so much time alone because he was always working and going to school. I even convinced myself that he was working so much just so he could be away from me. We were fighting all the time and a few weeks before our second wedding anniversary we had a huge fight that we just couldn't seem to recover from. I said so many angry hurtful things that night that I still regret so much. Jase left me that night and stayed at his parents house. The next morning he packed his things and went to stay at his older brothers house. My worst fears had come true. Before Jase left that morning I asked him if he wanted a divorce, he just said he would be in touch and then he closed the door and was gone.

I cried so hard, I felt like my world was falling apart. I waited and stayed at the apartment for a few days hoping he would come back home, but he didn't. It was awkward being there alone with his mom and dad and family. They knew we had a fight and that we were having some troubles but they were kind to me and tried not to take sides to much. In the end though I just couldn't be there any more. Each day that passed with out him there just made me feel worse. I packed my things and moved back home with my mom. It still is the hardest thing I have ever had to do. During this time I was really going through a lot of emotions. My mom having dealt with her own husband leaving was telling me I had to call Jase and get things figured out. So after I was settled I called him, I asked him what he was planning to do about us. He said he couldn't deal with my unending demands and my controlling attitudes. He said he didn't like being told what to do as if he was a child. I told him he was never there, and that he never listened to me. I accused him of being a workaholic and told him that he never wanted to have any time for us. We argued more and blamed each other until finally I just hung up.

The last time Jase and I spoke he told me he did not know what it was he wanted to do about us. He said he wasn't in a place to make any decisions and that if I cared about him I would stop calling him and just let him have some time. He said when he was ready he would be in touch with me, that was the last time I spoke to him.

Over the next several months I did go through some real struggles with depression. It took everything in me not to call him. Sara and I had become really good friends , and we are very close. She is the only one in his family I have been in contact with over the past year. Sara shared with me what it meant to really give my life to the Lord and not just go to church on Sundays. She was such a help to me during that time. I did learn from her that Jase is now back living with his parent and working at the ranch. He is still going to school. I was surprised because I thought he would have headed off to the state University but he decided to stay where he was. I asked her if Jase ever talks about me, she said that about six months after we split they were talking and he told her that he was not planning to get a divorce, he said he could not bring himself to do that. He told her that he knew he had to grow up, but that he needed some time and that for now this was how things had to be for him and I.
I know that he has not seen anyone else while we have been apart because his parents would never tolerate that in their home especially while we are still married. I have had a lot of time to think about things. I know I was selfish wanting everything to be perfect all the time. I wanted him to be there for me all the time, I wanted our marriage to be like this huge romantic love story that never ends but the truth is marriage is a lot of work.I couldn't see that then but I see it now. I know one of the really big issues for my husband was that I was controlling of him, he did not like always having me “tell” him what to do. I think one of the biggest lessons I have learned is not to manipulate and not to try to always control things. I really do hope one day I get to share some of these things with my husband, but for now I am trying to honor what he has asked of me. It is hard though when you care about someone. As for now I am living to honor my marriage vows and just trust in the Lord. I have been living with my mom, going to school, working, and trusting as each day goes by. Mom and I have since moved a couple of times. Mom has some serious health issues so we moved to the city very recently. I no longer live in the same area as my husband I live several hours away from his family ranch. Sara lives in the city as well so I do get to be in touch with her often. I did just learn from her that Jase is planning to come to her wedding and wanted to make sure I would not be upset by him being there. He told her he is looking forward to seeing me. I am hopeful but I do want to be carefu.

I am sorry for not being more forth coming about myself and for not being completely honest about my marital status. I don't have any excuses except to say it has been really hard to know who to trust. There have been times when I have shared this with well meaning Christians and they inevitably always want to tell me that I should just get a divorce and move on with my life. I will admit I have withdrawn from people, I have put up a lot of walls to keep people at a distance. I don't really want to let people get to close and I spend a lot of time alone or with those very few I know will not ask to many questions because its less painful that way. I am trying to learn to come out from behind some of these walls but its a slow process. I realize this is long, as I am writing this I think how much information should I give? How much detail should I reveal? Does anyone really even want to hear about this anyway but then I am so tired of keeping secrets and not being real with people so I figure if I can't start here then where will I start.

In Him
Ellie

God bless you sister. Your honesty is a breath of fresh air.

Ellie et.al.: I don't think others would not want to hear about your journey. You are under no compulsion to share every part of your life (this is an on-line community after all), but thank you for sharing. I, along with other I am sure, pray that God will restore your marriage completely and that you and your husband will serve Him side by side.

My wife and I have been married for 16-1/2 years, and I think that in a sense we are just now "getting it". When someone says "hollywood" style romance, I cringe a litte (OK, a LOT) since I know that that style of relationship is usually based entirely off of emotion and fueled by fleshly passion. However, passion and romance is vital and I believe ordained of God to be present in a healthy marriage. Men and women are vastly different. I will vouch for the fact that, as a man, my wife has had to learn to be very blunt with me. I just don't get innuendo like she does. She has had to learn that there is usually not much more behind my words than is conveyed by the words themselves and not to try to read more into what I am saying than what I am saying. We have had several very trying times in our marriage when forgiveness was absolutely necessary on both sides.

I have found that the closer we draw to one another and the closer we draw to God, the more romance and passion increase. I would say that passion and romance in a Christian marriage are a direct product of the spiritual bond between the couple. I honestly believe that a couple who have discerned the will of God for marriage will develop the romance and passion as they walk together in that union.

As I said, I feel in a lot of ways like I am just now figuring out what marriage is all about, and I have already raised two boys and walked together with my wife for almost 17 years. I learn new things about her every day. I learn even more things about myself every day. Whoever said it was like a death is right in one respect. I have had to learn to die to myself and my own desires and love my wife like Christ loves the church and boy am I ever a novice at that one.

It does take a 100% commitment from both spouses to doing things God's way, to staying together till death do us part, to dying to self.

Travis

Travis, I love your testimony. It is so precious it calls for repeat readings.

Is it not fascinating that those of us who have been married will say the same thing? It requires commitment, dying to self, forgiveness. And the end result is that is fuels romance and passion? So amazing...and we know it all comes from God. Nothing so precious could have evolved on it own in the course of several million years...

God bless you Ellie. It will all come together when you and Jase will allow the LORD to change you from glory to glory...

I Love you, Ellie,

ginnyrose

Hey

Travis, I just wanted to say thank you for sharing with me. Its kind of strange that you should write about learning new things about your wife everyday because that was brought up to me tonight and has really been on my heart.

Snufalapagus, you are right it was because of my sin and fear that we rushed things and got married when we did. I think back about it now and I realize that there were many times that I manipulated to get my way. I know that is sin and something I have repented of and continue to seek the Lord on. I have written Jase a letter sharing some of these things about what I have been seeing and to ask for his forgiveness in some things, I have not mailed it yet though. Thank you for you encouragement.

Ginnyrose, thank you again so much for being so helpful.

I have been having a hard time tonight. My relationship with my mom is really difficult. I have been trying to spend more time with her over the last few days because she is having surgery this week and I know she is fearful about that. I want to be helpful to her but she is really negative when it come to Jase and I. I think because my dad left her and technically Jase did leave me she thinks its the same situation. I keep telling her that its not. Tonight she said some things that really upset me. It started because Sara came over to see me this evening so she could let me know what was happening with her wedding. My mom was home of course and heard us talking. Sara was sharing with me because she got a call yesterday from her mom and they are now supporting her and want to help with her wedding. She is really happy and this is truly and answer to prayer for her. Her mom is going to pay for Sara grandmothers dress to be altered so she can wear it on her wedding day. The wedding is going to be at the ranch and I am planing on going. This upset my mom because she reminded me that she will be home from the hospital at that time and that she will need my help. I told her I would be sure that she is not left alone but that I am going to the wedding. I could tell that upset my mom but she did not say anything more until later after Sara left. That's when my mom said, “I suppose that husband of yours will be there since its his sister getting married.” I told her that he was going to be there and she started making comments about us. Usually I would ignore her but some of the things she said have really been bothering me. She brought up the fact that I have changed so much(mom is not saved and does not like that I take my walk with the Lord seriously) She made comments about my appearance and the way I dress now. It got me thinking more because I have changed some things about myself and we have not seen each other in a little over a year now. I let my hair grow longer, and I had some highlights put in(I have really dark auburn hair naturally) I wear a lot less make up then I use to and I dress a lot more modestly then I use to because I felt convicted about modesty. Those are just some of the changes on the outside. The changes that matter most are the ones on the inside and I am a different person, I do take my walk with the Lord a lot more serious then I ever did in the past.

I don't want to worry about this kind of stuff but now my mom has got me thinking what if Jase is not happy with who I have become? Or how I look now? I know I am just letting my mom get to me but what if she is right, and I do find myself married to a stranger?

love in Him
Ellie

I don't want to worry about this kind of stuff but now my mom

Ellie, you have grown in your walk with the LORD. And as you keep walking with him, there will be more changes forthcoming - and this you can take to the bank! Non-Christians will never understand this, but God does and He is the only one you need to be concerned about. So, my advice to you is do not fret about what your mom says and who knows? your husband just might be real pleased when he sees the evidence in/on your body!

You told me that your SIL told you Jase is changing as well...Oh, Ellie, this is so exciting! Don't you see how God is working?? Just don't allow the Enemy destroy you or your marriage because that is all he is interested in, nothing for your benefit or anyone else's for that matter.

God bless and will continue to pray for you.

Much love,
ginnyrose

Greetings Ellie

Just wanted to remind you to keep your focus on Jesus and not allow self to fall back into old sinful patterns of wanting to be the center of attention.(sometimes this can happen without us even realizing it)

Remember to seek the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, let Him be the light and love of your life and everything else will take care of itself. Keep your focus on Jesus and know that He is what matters most, don't loose sight of that no matter what. Remember that both you and your husband are growing in Christ, for His glory and so that He may be lifted up:)

God Bless
maryjane

Hey Ginnyrose

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I will be going to talk with my sister in law later this afternoon if she can make it. I am very happy and excited about how things are happening but I just feel I need to be cautious right now.

MJ: Thanks so much for the reminder. You know that is something I struggle with and I really do need to continue to walk in the Lord in this.

On another note mom surgery is scheduled for tomorrow morning. She is all registered and checked in so she will be there tonight and they will take her early in the morning.

with love in Him
ellie

Just wanted to remind you to keep your focus on Jesus and not allow self to fall back into old sinful patterns of wanting to be the center of attention.(sometimes this can happen without us even realizing it)

I agree, MaryJane.

Ellie, one will never come to the point where we will always do the right thing. We mess up. And so does our husband - hence the need to maintain a forgiving mentality at all times. No one ever reaches the point in perfection that you do not need the LORD's enabling grace to live. My preacher-grandfather used to say that he thought that when people get old life would become easier but he has found that it gets harder. And I agree - the trials are different but God's grace is still there giving one strength to live. And so it will be for you, Ellie.

Hope things will go well for your mom and that God will provide you with grace to deal with the situation there.

God bless you, my dear, and we will keep praying for you.

ginnyrose

Greetings ginnyrose

you wrote:

My preacher-grandfather used to say that he thought that when people get old life would become easier but he has found that it gets harder.

I really have found it to be so true in my own life. I use to think that the older I got that life and especially married life would just be easier but that is not always the case. There are days when I really have to be on my knees in prayer and just completely surrendering self to the Lord. I just wanted to say that even though I have been married for going on twenty six years now I have really been encouraged and am learning so much from this thread. Thank you to everyone who has shared here.

God Bless
mj

It's not what you put on that attracted him to you, it's your heart. Yes attractions all play their part, but it was your faith, your willingness to reason, talking, sharing, all these things come out of the heart.

Your right and this is a really good reminder for any wife who is struggling with doubts about her appearance. The world puts a huge importance on outside beauty but true beauty comes from the heart.

Thank you for sharing
God Bless
maryjane

If Jase wanted to marry a paint store he would have. It's not what you put on that attracted him to you, it's your heart. Yes attractions all play their part, but it was your faith, your willingness to reason, talking, sharing, all these things come out of the heart.

Thank you.
in Him
Ellie