has anyone heard about this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2D_5ruJaUc

This is called Lord save us from your followers, it seems way off from biblical christianity, what do you all think of this movement?

I am happy to hear you emailed them brother because it sounds very dangereous to me too.

I saw nothing dangerous in this video.......Frank

Let me ask you a question in return; why do think A. there are so few Jews today, who have confessed Messiah Jesus?

is there anything that would make the Jewish people envious of so great a salvation via the witness, walk and or love of the modern evangelical church?

do you think it might have something to do with over 1700 years of memory of being hounded persecuted and killed by "christians", who had the words, "kill a Jew for Jesus!" shrieked from the mouth of either crusaders, cossacks, german lutherans or christian identity neo nazi's in the us?

I'll confess, sometime's i read posts on this forum, that make my skin crawl, sometimes i hear things uttered in the public marketplace by purported Christian leaders, that make me want to go hide in a cave in shame, at how perverted the Message of Salvation, the Message of the Resurrected Messiah has become....a TELEVISION PREACHER calling for the assassination of a foreign democratically elected president of another nation? the leader of the NAE, who shrieked loud and long about homosexual marriage, all the while he himself was enagaging in drug soaked homosexual whore-mongering? a freak revivalist. covered in tatoo's, playing with God to enrich his purse, feed his lusts, divorce his wife, and then magically get "restored" by another fleshling and start the whole mess over again?

it makes me sick, so many hypocrites have taken a beautiful concept, "evangelical", and made it a stench in the public place.

But personally, i can never go back. I KNOW Jesus is Messiah, Risen from the dead, His Blood is wholly sufficient to cleanse us from all sins, Jesus is the Answer, the Only Way, i can never go back, Praise His Name, but a lot of His purported followers?

religionists.....or should i say, religion kills, Jesus saves.

I saw nothing dangerous in this video.......Frank

Let God do the changing. We need to accept people the way they are without telling them anything in the way they should live, let the Holy Ghost convict and convince them of their sin. Jesus sat with homosexuals, harlots and thieves and not once is it ever said that He condemned anyone for being what they were, accept for the Pharisees. He told them stories and shared the love of God. God save us from His followers.

Most people don't understand why they are the way they are. They grew up in a Christian home, in the closet scared to tell anyone their secret because the Church has a nasty way of exposing and pointing the finger with condemnation. They know something is wrong, fear drives them away from the church where they find love and acceptance of those that have the same problem. Because of that love and acceptance they will protect that even though they have become deceived. If we did our part in the first place none of these people would have to run away. We could have accept them the way they were. "It's the goodness of God that leadeth men unto repentance". I remember a woman who came into the church practically nothing on, and as she was walking down the aisle a sister took her coat and went right up behind her and covered her with God's love. She didn't call her names, she didn't put her down for coming into the Church looking like that, she let the convicting power of the holy Ghost do His work in and through her.

God save us from your followers who love to relish in condemning that which you have paid a great price and atone for and made clean by your blood.

When we say, "God loves the sinner and hates the sin". Bad words to express to a homosexual. For their sin is who they have come to believe. When we say that to them, they are hearing you say that God hates them. No wonder they hate God, I would too. No, God loves period!!

Holiness will spread repentance into their soul.

Hi Maryjane,

I think peolple may have the biggest problems with the confesional where the man apolgized to homosexuals and also the critisisms of Pat Robertson and Dr Dobson. I have no problem with Christians confessing to any group of people for a lack of love. If we do not have love as per 1 Cor 13, then we profit nothing.

As for Pat and Dr Dobson, I have critized both of those men on this very forum. It is no secret that I believe that they led the Christian community deep into the bowels of politics and were merely used by certain politicans for political gain. (please no debate on those points, its all been said:)

What did you think was compromise Maryjane? ......brother Frank

you should watch the whole movie they present brother that was only 10 minutes of it.

beloved,
i bear guilt in that my words may seem angry, AND directed towards you, or others here. I beg forgiveness if it was taken that way, from you or anyone reading these words, and anyone who was such offended, please forgive me.

as God puts it in my heart for the Vine, the people of my flesh, i have much much grieving. among the Jews, there are those who love Yahweh, dearly, there are those who thirst for righteousness, and they are so close, and yet so far, and sometimes i feel in the depth of my heart, that there is a fell wall of 1700 years, a witness of Messiah Jesus must CUT thru, to prick their hearts, open their ears, open their hearts, and i am only just one lonely saint, i speak this way, in the morning, because i'm right in the middle of my devotional Scripture reading. i dont say that to boast, if such boasting be, Let it be in the LORD GOD, fore it is He who gives me the Hunger to eat of His Word, one of three gifts He has given me, and I'm in Isaiah right now, started this morning in Isaiah 48, then into 49, with the Third of the Four Suffering Servant Songs that speak SO CLEARLY of Messiah and His Call to the "nations", and then into then into the Fourth Suffering Servant song, chapters 52-53....such joy! my fingers are inadequate to even innumerate this holy joy i feel, that God would send HIs SON Jesus to us, ALL....to the world.

You know Mary Jane, when God revealed His Son in me, and to me, it was no man that preached a Gospel message, i wasnt sitting in a Church, (though once recieved this Revelation of Jesus, i made my way to the Church God had selected for me) i was up in a house trailer on a horse ranch alone broken and weeping, praying, "God please be with me", over and over again, and He took mercy upon me, and revealed His Son Jesus Messiah to me, and there was only one Path available to me, the path to Golgatha, to the Cross, to the Blood, and to Jesus.

and it grieves me no end that my fellow Jews, who love God, havent recognized that the waiting is over, He HAS COME, the Holy One of Israel.

as to my health, praise God i still have breath, sometimes our food is the bread of affliction, and our drink is the cup of our tears, and it is good, God refines one in such a furnace of affliction, and thank God, i have never raised a fist to my Father asking why, i just thank Him for His Rod, and His Holy Spirit, That comforts us all, who shelter under His Wing.

again, i deeply apologize for hasty words, its just the outpouring of a broken heart, know that i love you in the Glorious Riches of the Risen Messiah, and in my heart, as i love all of my brothers and sisters, fearfully knit together in the fullness of time.

in Jesus' love, neil

HI Maryjane, you write....

"It is very important to let others know of Christs love but its equally important to share with them about the condition of their hearts(no matter what sin they are in) and their great need for Jesus."

I think right there is a good point to talk about. I will give you an example from my own life. Prior to coming to Christ I was a drunk. I got saved at the age of 26. By that time I had been married for nine years, lost one child and had a six year old. Often when I was drunk I would go visit my mother, a very Godly woman. It must have grieved her heart to see her oldest son turn out just like his father. Not one time did she rebuke me for my lifestyle or my drinking, not once. She would talk about Jesus. She would speak from her heart and share what Jesus has spoken into her heart that day or what He was doing in her life or how much she loved Jesus, it was interwoven into everything she did and said. My very cold heart would always be slightly warmed in her presence. I felt tremendous conviction about my lifestyle, not because she rebuked me for it, but because the Holy Spirit was about His work, convicting me and wooing me. I continued to to visit her. Would I have continued to visit her if I got lectures? I doubt it. o, what am I trying to say? I guess what I am trying to say that it is the Holy Spirit that does the convicting of in. We are commisioned to share the Gospel and make disciples, to share the good news. And what is the good news? That God so loved the world that He gave HIs only Son for it? Yes, I think that is it. Do all men already know they are sinners? Yes, accroding to Scripture they do.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

You see, all men suppress the truth, which means they hold it down, the push it down and cover it. That is why there is no such thing as athiests, they may say that, but God has planted the knowledge of His existence in them. They choose to ignore it for the sake of living their lives the way they want to live it, but they are guilty before the living God. This is His work, His Holy Spirits work, and it is revealed through the Love of Calvary. So, I say, let the Holy Spirit do His work and let us do what we are called to do. The Spirit of conviction comes when we walk in the power of Truth and love. When we love our enemies, when we give water to our enemies, coals of fire are heaped upon them. For many Christians they long to see the coals of fire heaped upon sinners, yet only through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit can this happen and that Spirit moves when we move as we are called.

No coals of fire come when there is no love. Sinners are not drawn to Christ when there is no love in the Christian sharing the message, we only futher alienate them. Without love burning in our hearts for the lost, we may as well never share the Gospel, for we will never see anyone saved if we do not have the Love of Christ burning in our chests. Love for the lost cannot be faked, they can spot a phony at a thousand yards. So I would say to anyone who has never saw anyone come to Christ when they have shared the Gospel(Barna says that that is 92% of Christians) to cry out to God for a love for their enemies, this is where the battle lies. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to seek and to save the Lost. Let us walk in that path and let the Holy Spirit do His work............brother Frank

HI Maryjane,

Thats a good reply to my reply :) Just so you know, I was born and raised a Catholic, Catholic education, Catholic marriage, Catholic church buried my first son, Catholic community in Scotland. I am well aware of the issues that surround witessing to Catholics as well as the vilest sinners(I was one in the literal sense)

I would stand by what I wrote in my first reply. Remember, just because your brother said it, does no make it true. All men know in their hearts that they are sinners and are seperated from God. They will stand and give an account before the living God and they will have no defence, including ignorance. I did say that we were to share the Truth in Love. Let me give you an example. After my own fathers conversion, he hated Catholicism. Now I hate it too. Yet he gets angry at Catholics and is known a Catholic basher. He never gets close enough with any Catholic to share the Truth. Let me give you one example from my sharing with a Catholic. I was standing in my neighbors house one time. She is a Catholic. She had a very staunch Catholic frined over visiting that day. The staunch Catholic freind was laying into her about her son who was living in sin. When she was finished, I began to speak about Jesus. Howe I met Him and how He changed my life and how much I loved Him. I had the "floor, for 20 uninterrupted minutes. When I was finished, there was ten seconds of silence. She then said these words that I will never forget "I do not know the Jesus that you are talking about." You see my point Maryjane? I shared the Truth in love , the Holy Spirit convicted her heart, and then she confessed that she did not "know," Jesus.

When the subject is raised by your mother or anyone else, you can explain what you believe. Never worry about the Truth competing with their lie. Let the other side raise the issues, believe me, if you are walking in the Spirit, every issue will come up and it is important that we take our openings when we get them. I had one co-worker say to me, without me evey saying anyhting about her "Are you trying to say that If I die tonight, I would go to hell?" I never said anyhting about her, but the Spirit of conviction was at work, she had the revelation and I confirmed the Truth. When people know that you love them, you get away with so much more becuase it is all the Holy Spirits work. I have entered into His rest and ceased from my works. It is no longer I that live or work, it is Christ that lives and works in me and through me and that is why all the glory is His. Speak the Truth in love when He makes the opneings sis, without fear of consequences, and you will see a radical difference in your sharing. You will begin to speak with "Katanusso," power. You can see what that is at this link.... http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2008/05/27/stabbed-in-the-heartbaptism-in-the-holy-spirit/ ...Frank

i think a big problem was that he was apologizing to homosexuals but his assumption is that all christians are hateful to them, but in actuality homosexuals really just don' like are stand against homoexuality because scripture speaks against, some have been treated bad but most don't like how the Bible speaks against it and they say that is christian cruelty, no we are standing for the truth, but that must be done in love but never not tell them the truth. I use to struggle with homosexual feelings but praise God he delivered me. We can't give up biblical truth and think that is love, that is not love, not telling them truth.

Hi Bible, you can never go wrong speaking, as led by the Holy Spirit, the Truth in love..........Frank

HI Maryjane,

I understand fully what you are saying about your dad, I just would not have believed your dad thats all. People say all manner of things, yet at the heart of it all they do not want to surrender their lives to Jesus. Its rebellion, pure and simple. That is why I quoted Romans 1. Men and woman will do all manner of things, whether it is worship a clay idol, or cut down a tree and use part of it for fuel and the other part carve into an idol, or worship Mary or whatever. Its all rebellion and the rebellion stops when they come before the Lord.

I am sure that all of your family know exactly what you are. None of them will be ignorant of who you are or what your life is about. Its not so much that they are Catholic, its more about the fact that they want nothing to do with what you are and they would refuse to bow the knee to the Lord Jesus Christ and take all of Him, not just the parts they like(the real meaning behind John 6)
So, speaking the truth in love is always the answer. If your dad claimed he was a sinner but not that bad compared to others, then of course we could have talked about all of our righteousness being like filty rags before the Lord and so on. I have found Catholics are very reluctant to dismiss Scripture if prsented with it. I always like to ask them, if the Holy Spirit gives me an opening, what did Jesus mean when He said that a man must be born again to enter heaven, and then kinda take it from there. I do try and avoid using the phrase "you are wrong," but would rather say something like, "well here is what that means to me," and then share my testimony....brother Frank

Fieldlaborer writes.......

"What are the deeds of the Nicolaitans? From what I have read it can be defined this way: Antinomianism: A belief that is based upon a recognition of the mercy of God as the ground of salvation, but it makes the fatal mistake that man can freely partake in sin because the Law of God is no longer binding."

This was not the Nicolatians but the gnostics. Antinomianism is a flagrant dis-regard for the commandments of God. If one would like to see how the Holy Spirit delt with gnosticism, read Colossians. When error is taught, teach the truth. The truth spoken in love is the power of God working in perfect harmony. Its not one or the other, it must be both. Just as the Lord must be worshipped in Spirit and in Truth, so we must share the Truth in love. Loving one's enemies is not a weak position, it is the strongest postition.

Did the Apostles speak out against Artemis? Did they speak out against the Romans and their Gods? No, they spoke the Truth in love and were killed for it. They spoke of Jesus. They had no agenda against any particular groups of the day, they simply focused on the Truth which, by the way, is more than enough to get you in a world of trouble. If you wanted to see the downfall of Artemis, you did not preach against Artemis, you taught that there was but one God and let the people come to their own conclusions.

If anyone wants a cause, take on the cause of Truth. Highlight that. Lift up the name of Jesus , speak boldy and declare His Truth, stay focussed on that and the kingdom of darkness will tremble. The trouble today is that issues become political, and there in none more so that the Homosexual issue. It becomes a wedge issue and politicians use and abuse both sides in the issue to gain power and position.

On a personal note, to me, one is either saved or they are not. There is a line and you are on the right side of the line, saved, or the wrong side of the line, unsaved. Now some unsaved people look worse than other unsaved people. Some people wear their sin on their sleeves and it is plain and abhorrent. Yet the Word of God says that their righteousness is like filthy rags, all of it falls short of the glory of God. If we can truly look at the unsaved world with equality, meaning, seeing them all as lost, whether the respectable suburbanite, or the murderer behind bars, the prostitute that walks the street and so on, then we are in a good place. Let us always speak the truth in love, in that we cannot go far wrong.......Frank

HI Maryjane,

I understand where you are coming from. My own grandmother came close to accpeting Jesus, then she turned back to Catholicism and her worship of Mary and she died this way. That was on my dads side. On my mums side, two of my uncles, having an unction from the Holy Spirit, pleaded with my other grandmother to surrender her life to Jesus. She rejected them and told them that she was a good person(which she was) and that she never harmed anyone. It was explained to her how that was not enough, but it was rejected, a year later she dropped dead at the age of 60. Both my grandmothers rejected Jesus, its sad but its true.

Your mother knows where you are coming from. You have shared the Truth with her, of that I have no doubt, so now the case becomes, how should you be with her. I say that you should love her and pray for her but not cast your pearls down. If there is to be movement with your mother, then it has to be the work of the Lord. Love her and take any openings that you can get with her. I will be praying for your mother. May we hear one day on this forum the testimony of your mother...........Frank

I say that you should love her and pray for her but not cast your pearls down.

I remember my Pastor prayed earnestly for his children to come back to the LORD. From His own mouth while interpreting a message in tongues, God said that He would bring them in, NOT YOU! I remember the force of those words and how God would do the work and it wouldn't be by the hand of their Dad. A few years later he died and he never saw them come in, but they will.

The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. God loves your Mother and He knows that you have a desire to save her. God loves it when we apprehend Him and take a hold of Him and we won't let go until we are blessed.

The woman came day after day to that unjust judge so that she could reclaim her property. Her secret was she pressed in and never gave up until she got what she came for. I like that don't you? There is something about pressing in and the determination to obtain what we have come to God for.

Casual prayer won't work, it never does. There is a lot of casual praying. There is no real heart felt faith towards God, it's a prayer that is filled with if ands or buts. But the man of faith ignores those hindrances and pushes beyond that and does not accept NO for an answer.

We can't give up biblical truth and think that is love, that is not love, not telling them truth.

I really don't believe that we should tell the world they are living in sin, that is the Holy Spirits department. Our job is to tell them the remedy for sin Jesus Christ and the good news of reconciliation. The Holy Spirit will convince the world of sin. For me to stand there and point the finger is not my place, we need to leave that to the Spirit of God. There will be at times when the Spirit may speak through a man concerning another man's sin, but it's the Spirits work to convict hearts. This world is not blind to sin, they know what sin is. But what they don't know is Jesus Christ and the forgiveness that comes to a heart that believes and repents.

I am going to insert this: "He that hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit is saying".

Please don't misconstrue what I am saying. This is not a softy softy gospel that I am presenting. The Holy Ghost knows how to bring people in, we speak of Jesus and His love for fallen humanity, if we've got the genuine goods on the inside of us then the holy Ghost will work in hearts that are listening about the love of Jesus Christ for them and be drawn to that love by the conviction power of the Holy Spirit. No fingers are pointed, no one is being condemned, all came to repentance by the Spirits working in them convincing them that they need to be saved from their sins.

More damage is done with these bible thrashers out on the street thinking they are doing a service for God, trying to act like Charles Finney or some other fire and brimstone hell bent preachers.

HOWEVER, in the Church it's a whole different ball game. WE, you and I, we need to be put in our place. We need to be told to stop sinning and we know better, we have been enlightened. We need correction and rebuke.

The more Holy we are the greater the harvest.

Frank, thank you for writing this, it just confirmed what I had written in my previous post. I had read this after I post my last post beneath this one and I was refreshed in reading it. Sometimes I go out on a limb and I think that I am alone in doing so, but here you go and write something that just confirms it. Thank you Jesus. Here is what you wrote:

I think right there is a good point to talk about. I will give you an example from my own life. Prior to coming to Christ I was a drunk. I got saved at the age of 26. By that time I had been married for nine years, lost one child and had a six year old. Often when I was drunk I would go visit my mother, a very Godly woman. It must have grieved her heart to see her oldest son turn out just like his father. Not one time did she rebuke me for my lifestyle or my drinking, not once. She would talk about Jesus. She would speak from her heart and share what Jesus has spoken into her heart that day or what He was doing in her life or how much she loved Jesus, it was interwoven into everything she did and said. My very cold heart would always be slightly warmed in her presence. I felt tremendous conviction about my lifestyle, not because she rebuked me for it, but because the Holy Spirit was about His work, convicting me and wooing me. I continued to to visit her. Would I have continued to visit her if I got lectures? I doubt it. oh, what am I trying to say? I guess what I am trying to say that it is the Holy Spirit that does the convicting of sin. We are commissioned to share the Gospel and make disciples, to share the good news. And what is the good news? That God so loved the world that He gave His only Son for it? Yes, I think that is it. Do all men already know they are sinners? Yes, according to Scripture they do.

Quote.....

" That is just as much an error as not preaching repentance at all. "

Now who ever said that? The leaps that people make are quite astonishing. I myself am a big fan of Finney. He was a man definately called of God, of that I have no doubt. Yet, all of which I refer to is in peoples everyday life, their interactions with their friends and family and co-workers. How is it when anyone speaks of grace and love and mercy, there is always someone jumping up and down on the sidelines shouting "license for sin, license for sin." :) I believe they accused the Apostle Paul of the very same thing. When we look at Calvary, we see the perfect harmony of judgement and mercy. It happens simaltaneously. The problem today is that most are either in the mercy camp or the judgement camp, the Holy Spirit marries them together perfectly. Only by walking in Truth and love, Spirit and Truth, can we move with the same kind of power that made the crowd shout out "what must we do to be saved." Paul was preaching under such power and the crowd were stabbed in the heart. The word is Katanusso. When Jesus was pierced with the spear, the word was nusso. Katanusso is a much more violent word yet this is the word that the Holy Spirit uses to describe the effect of Peters preaching. Its the perfect amalgm. It pierces, violently agitates, penetrates the hardest of hearts. There is a reason why 92% of Christians have never saw any one come to Christ by their personal sharing. There is a reason why the Spiritual state of this country is in a nose-dive. And its not the big bad world, newsflash, the world has alaways been big and bad. No, its when Gods people are not walking in the Spirit, when they become worldy, then darkness descends. Now we know the Scripture well, If my people, who are called by my name, would turn from "their," wicked ways.........." You see, while Christians are satisfied at pointing the finger at the world and all the various groups that make up the bad old world, then nothing will be achieved. But, when they repent of their own wicked worldly ways and get right with God, get revived,get on fire for Him, open up the door that He is knocking on, return to their first love, then you will see the light penetrate the darkness and penetrate the hard hearts of unbelievers, whether homosexual or otherwise........Frank

HI Fieldlaborer,

There is no argument, you simply made an assertion which reflected on my post and I corrected that. As for the 95 thesis, I have read it and agree with it 100%. I think what snufalapagus was saying was that he had a position, based on Scripture, and was glad to see someone else agree with him. I agree that the fact someone else agrees with you niether makes your position right or wrong, but it may be a wee bit unfair to say that was how he came to believe what he believed...........Frank

edit........98% may be more accurate :)

How is it when anyone speaks of grace and love and mercy, there is always someone jumping up and down on the sidelines shouting "license for sin, license for sin." :) I believe they accused the Apostle Paul of the very same thing. When we look at Calvary, we see the perfect harmony of judgment and mercy. It happens simultaneously. The problem today is that most are either in the mercy camp or the judgment camp, the Holy Spirit marries them together perfectly. Only by walking in Truth and love, Spirit and Truth, can we move with the same kind of power that made the crowd shout out "what must we do to be saved." Paul was preaching under such power and the crowd were stabbed in the heart. The word is Katanusso. When Jesus was pierced with the spear, the word was nusso. Katanusso is a much more violent word yet this is the word that the Holy Spirit uses to describe the effect of Peters preaching

Smith Wigglesworth had an experience of what Frank and I are trying to convey, and I don't mean to drag your name into this Frank, it's not like we are teamed up together to go against anyone here. I am passionate that this is the right way, that this is what God intended for His Church to be, to stand and see the salvation of God work in and through people while they deliver a non condemning message of grace to a people whom Jesus Christ has cleansed by His blood. I used to be afraid of Grace and I wrapped my life around legalism. But through cooperation with the holy Ghost He removed that garment and replaced it with His grace. But this is what Wigglesworth said:

I remember once I was traveling to Cardiff in South Wales. I had been much in prayer on the journey. The carriage was full of people whom I knew to be unsaved, but there was so much talking and joking I could not get in a word for my Master. As the train was nearing the station, I thought I would wash my hands so I should be ready to go straight to the meeting. I went along the corridor, and as I returned to the carriage, a man jumped up and said, “Sir, you convince me of sin,” and fell on his knees there and then. Soon the whole carriage of people were crying out the same way. They said, “Who are you? What are you? You convince us all of sin.” It was a great opportunity that God had given me, and you may be sure that I made the best of it. Many souls were born into the kingdom of God in that railway carriage.

Field Labourer said:

Using other peoples posts to confirm what you believe can lead you places you don't want to go. Use the Word of God instead.

Have you ever prayed for something only to have it confirmed by someone giving you that very thing you have prayed for? I have, and this is how God increases our faith. Lets say your praying for God to supply you with food for your children and your cupboards are bare and you haven't told a living soul about your predicament, you have no money. Lo, and behold you hear a knock at the door and there is a stranger there with a car load of groceries that he felt a feeling that this household needed food. Jonathan Goforth had that same experience and countless others. There is nothing wrong in confirmations. I don't know about you, but that would just boost my faith into the stars.

Matthew 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The confirmation that they were preaching the truth was that the power of God manifested. If it didn't, then it should be questioned. This is how we know that men today are preaching the truth. If there is no power, deliverance, and people being set free, we can safely assume that that preacher is not preaching the truth. Unless of course you believe that the gifts of the Spirit died out in the first century.