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MUST HEAR: Missionary Commitment by Billy Graham

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sermonindex

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Saints,

Billy Graham exhorts a large gathering of young people to count the count to follow Christ fully in missionary service. This is a prophetic message for our day to consider the true cost of following Christ and serving Him in missions. Oh that God would raise up a radical disciples in and end times radical missions movement in these last days.

[b]Missionary Commitment by Billy Graham[/b]
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Joyful_Heart

A lot to ponder. Very sobering. Thank you for suggesting this.

A
anonymity

im not totally sure but it sure seems his preaching and message have changed a lot over the years.

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wayneman

im not totally sure but it sure seems his preaching and message have changed a lot over the years.

When Billy first preached in Yankee Stadium, his sermon was titled "Sodom and Gomorrah." He famously stated, "If God does not judge America, He owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology!" When he last preached there the sermon title was "Loneliness." Yes, for better or worse the message certainly changed.

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sermonindex

I would personally have to include a detailed misnomer on Billy Graham's ministry before I posted a sermon of his. He has, in recent years (the last couple/few decades), totally apostasized from true Biblical christianity and evangelistic preaching. He is now a Universalist and denies the exclusivity of Christ as the only door into heaven. This is among a host of other sad statements he has made in the public domain. I know the difference between his old messages and the leaven he teaches now, but the weaker in the faith and new converts could hear this message, go to his other teachings unawares, and get caught up in deception and confusion. This must be stated for the health of the Body.
Jeff

L
Llewellyn

He is a wolf, a deceiver. He may have preached good sermons in his early days, but you will know them by their fruit. Promoting his sermons I think is a mistake. This is the Billy who has mislead millions into the catholic church's arms. Brother who's favor are you looking for? The word of the Lord says that we are to turn away from those who turn away from the true Gospel! Billy has on Larry King made it clear that there is more than one way to God. Greg and you know these things...

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sermonindex

Billy is not a deceiver. He is not perfect like some are.

He may have said some things that are not 100% biblical and
so has every one of us.

He has however been used of God to win thousands upon
thousands to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

S
sermonindex

Billy has departed from Independent Fundamental Rural Baptist KJV-only Three-mode-Baptism Exclusive-Non-alcoholic-Lord's-Supper Decisional/Lordship-Salvationism, which is the One True Faith.

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sojourner7

Personally speaking, it was a gospel message
from Mr. Billy Graham that pointed the way to the
cross and lead me to the Saviour.
My testimony is just one of a myriad of myriads
who heard the gospel faithfully proclaimed by
BILLY GRAHAM.
He will receive the joy unspeakable and the
crown of a soul-winner!!

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anonymity

i didnt mean it in a negative sense but a positive one. i thought this message was really good and was very encouraged that a man so prominent was able to give such a sound and Spirit filled message unlike rarely today. it would seem that those who preach this sort of message are all alone but often times by the power of God many souls are won and there is great fruit. it is not always that a true preacher is fruitless without any hearers. i think there are many questionable things though presently with and would hope for a better state. this was a great and cutting message though. LET US GIVE OUR LIVES TO THE PROPOGATION OF THE GOSPEL WITH URGENCY POWER AND FRUITFULNESS. and not be bogged down by luxuries weakness compromise failure non essential doctrine arguing and hear the words lo I am with you always even unto the end of the age.

G
Giggles

Kind of off topic, but that is a sweet picture of him preaching here, so intense looking. Nice selection Greg.

I
iansmith

Want to know what got Billy in trouble as of recent years? He read his bible.

Romans 2:12-16 says:

All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. [b](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) [/b]This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Now consider Hebrews 11:24-26

By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. He regarded disgrace [b]for the sake of Christ[/b] as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.

Moses by faith followed the Lord God, but in retrospect the writer of Hebrews says that he endured disgrace for the sake of Christ -did he know he was enduring disgrace for the sake of Jesus? Most likely not in name, but he was! In the same way, is it possible for a gentile without biblical revelation to follow Jesus without knowing they are following Jesus?

I don't think the bible is offering another way besides Jesus, but I do think that our understanding of God's Sovereignty and his Election may need to give God more leeway in how he operates! He is God and we are not.

Despite this, the Apostle Paul (writer of the above verses) did not become any less zealous in preaching the Gospel... I think we should keep that in mind. Allowing Jesus to operate in ways that we cannot comprehend does not excuse us from the great commission that he gave to his church! Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit...!

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sermonindex

Please just check into what Billy Graham has said himself. Ian Paisley began to preach against Billy Graham preaching in his town for good reason. Listen to what Billy himself says. Look at this and listen with an open heart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sow0gfXXHGY

Wouldn't Billy Graham's ministry violate the "95 Theses" Greg wrote in a multitude of ways? Most notably#'s 2,3,4,5,8,15,20,23,25,27,28,29,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,41,44,51,
AND VERY SPECIFICALY #'s 53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,65,66,67,68,70,80,86,87,91,92,93,94,95.?

Rightfully so, you might say that many more true godly preachers would fit this bill in certain ways due to the cultural "church system" we have built and been ingrained in for decades, if not centuries. Fair enough in light of God's grace and mercy that this "old wineskin" has been used, although in the days ahead will be replaced by a "new wineskin" which is really the original plan for the church shown in Acts and the rest of the NT.

However, this man actually denies the Gospel, and has for years and years now, when he says that Muslims, Hindus, Roman Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc., can "be saved" without being born again. What did Jesus tell Nicodemas? Would the Words of Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, John, etc., in scripture agree with these statements made by Billy Graham? I am not "sin-sniffing" or "heresy-hunting", as I really am saddened by the fact that this conversation is even having to be had after anyone sees what the man has said. He has apologized for and built up the pope, politicians who openly support the murder of babies and the rights of homosexuals, those involved in freemasonry and all other false religions, etc.

Just to be clear, I am not "on the warpath" prophetically as in my earlier days, but the Lord has set his face against these people and that will become more clear in the days ahead and less clear to those involved in the Emergent watered down, apostasized, Universalistic, heretical movement in the land. If you didn't know what Billy Graham said, then obviously you didn't know and God's grace(and the truth into which the Lord leads)is what opens all of our eyes. If you see what he has said/done in recent years which outright denies the Gospel Jesus, Paul, John, Peter, Jude, James (etc.) preached, and yet you take up for him and create doctrines to affirm his error. I don't care who you are, you are in a bad place concerning discernment and your walk for the days ahead. I say that in earnest, in love, in grace, sincerity, concern, and hope that the eyes of more who profess His name would be opened.
"Or do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?"

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live4jc


Dear saints in Christ,

I found the video which jeffmar posted a link to, to be very concerning.

"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 4:12

Billy Graham preached this in his early days of ministry.

In Jesus,
John

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sermonindex

I mean, if you look at what the man said, and compare that to the truth of God's Word and see the contradiction, you have to ask yourself one question (among many others):

Did Paul mean what he said in Galatians 1:8-12 when he said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any mn preach another gospel to you than that you have recieved, let him be accursed.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is notafter man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ."?

Why is Billy Graham apparently America's "sacred cow" that can't even be questioned when he has become a complete heretic outside of the faith, but yet Paul said don't even accept him, or an angel from heaven, if the message being preached changed? If you were truly converted at one of the "come forward and ask Jesus into your heart" crusades, it was, by the grace of God, in spite of the "evangelistic" message, not because of it.

I thank God truly that no man was present when I got born again but me, the Spirit of God, and my Bible in a room the size of your bathroom. I know my conversion was supernatural of God's sovereign grace, and not because of any man's crusade. I know God has saved people genuinely in these conditions, but Billy Graham himself said that he guesses that 95% of the people who came forward in his meetings were never saved. Wouldn't that make us examine the whole "ask Jesus into your heart" crusade and then take a fresh biblical look at the rest of the work?

Maybe the work was genuine in the beginning (not 100% sure, but God knows), but the man denies the Gospel! Jesus said that "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me" (John 14:6). And, if you read John 10:1-13, you will see that when a wolf comes, the hirelings tuck their tail and run because they care nothing for the sheep. So, the wolf scatters the flock and attacks the sheep. But, the good shepherd stays and defends the sheep from wolves.

If I disagree with a preacher on any particular issue such as Calvinism vs. Armenianism, freewill of man vs. soveriegnty of God, preterism vs. amillinialism, etc. - saints of God may see things differently at any given time in their walk according to what the Lord has shown them and what they see in the Word. However, straight up apostasy which denies the Lord's Gospel "once for all entrusted to the saints" is something altogether different.

Some have even defended Billy Graham saying that he is somehow altogether "senile" so he responds in this way. Really? Would God really allow that in the life of a faithful saint? Maybe, though I personally have my doubts. Well, Billy went on Larry King and said the same garbage. He was apparently perfectly mentally capable again up until the answering of that one question. He went senile and denied the gospel. Then, magically, he was immediately able to think and speak clearly again. Nope, logic doesn't line up with that silly argument.

Apparently, we are at least partially blinded by the very "celebrity preacher" plague which we claim to be against. In theory, we are against it. In reality, we will actually defend it if the name is Billy Graham. I wish it wasn't true that he said all the things he did, but it is true, he did say it, and after being properly warned, rebuked, and called out on it (which it is my understanding has happened), then he should be called out as what he is: an apostate false teacher who teaches Universalism and gives multitudes of people false assurance of salvation and aides them in their deception which will ultimately condemn them to an eternity of judgement under God's wrath.

He said almost exactly the same things that Joel Osteen did concerning "wider mercy salvation" when he was on Larry King. If Joel Osteen preached a seemingly good message in the early days of his ministry, would we be posting and praising his early sermons? Would we be rushing to defend him and criticize the ones who would bring the error into light for the health of the Body? I am not speaking the truth because I am "unloving" towards Billy Graham, but because the love of Christ within me compels me to seek to protect the sheep from wolves. The man praised the pope as one of the most influential and important religious leaders of our day. Have we so lost our way that even in "Revival" circles we no longer see the danger of that one thing immediately?
Lord help us!!!

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sermonindex

Notice I don't hardly ever post, so I am not someone who "has to always be talking just to hear myself". This is important saints. Discernment is important!!!!

H
hulsey

I am grieved over the statements made and the direction advanced by Billy Graham's ministry over the years. However, I listened to this sermon and it would do some people good to hear it.

I would say that I am also grieved over the direction that Solomon's life took and the end that he had. There are bible teachers that teach that Solomon finally went to hell. Carter Conlon and Zac Poonen both believe this. Yet we all read the books out of the O.T. regularly that Solomon wrote.

I hope and am determined not to have the end that Solomon had, and I pray for Brother Graham that he recovers and has a good end also. I will also profit from the beneficial things that they have taught and wrote in times past.

I
iansmith

I want to pose a question to each one of you. Suppose I followed you around with a camera and taped everything that you said, every day, whether sick or well, tired or alert, prepared or unprepared, in public or private... would every statement that came out of your mouth have 100% doctrinal precision? Certainly not, but hopefully if one watched hours of the footage, the pattern that they would see is one of sanctification and a pursuit after God.

Recently I have been studying the attributes of God, and believe me when I say that there is only one perfect, immutable, faithful, holy, righteous one in the universe, and that is God. We cannot, and should not expect the same of any created being, that would be to diminish the perfections of God.

Now suppose I followed you around with a digital camera, and took tens of thousands of photos of you in the same situations and brought before your friends, neighbors, colleagues and even your congregations only the photos that put you in a bad light, but buried the rest that showed any of the ways that God has used you over the years. Then suppose I were to make a website about you that featured only the pictures -say the four or five worst pictures and then worked to persuade these people that this is what you were like one hundred percent of the time. I would be deceiving people would I not? Is not deception from the enemy, the one who hates Jesus?

I urge you brothers, look at the fruits of Billy Graham's ministry, not just the four or five unripe bananas that every one of these anti-Billy ministries parades around to show that he is a heretic, but look at the width and breadth of his ministry. Listen to any one of the thousands of sermons that he has preached, read the thousands of articles that he has written in contrast with the four or five interviews/articles that he has given where he has fumbled an answer.

Do you not see that you are being controlled by the enemy. Slander should not find any place among the children of light. We are playing into the trap of the enemy, and I see that even I have been guilty of tearing down Godly men with supposedly 'smoking gun' evidence.

The one segment that one will see come up again and again in attacking the credibility of Billy Graham is from an interview he did with Robert Schuller in which he says,

I think everyone that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not they are members of the Body of Christ. And that is what God is doing today. He is calling people out of the world for his name. Whether they come from the Muslim world or the Buddhist world or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they have been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they are saved and that they are going to be with us in heaven.

Now let us break this down statement by statement and see if Billy Graham has fallen into heresy -because remember, the word that supposedly gets Billy into trouble is "wide" which he never said, but was put into his mouth by Schuller.

1. [i]"I think everyone that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they are conscious of it or not they are members of the Body of Christ."[/i] I have already quoted Hebrews 11:24-27 in a previous post, but please read this verse 26, "He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward." If you read this verse, you will see that the writer of Hebrews says that Moses was motivated by the knowledge of Christ, yet the Lord Jesus had yet to be conceived physically by the Holy Spirit in the Virgin Mary. This knowledge of Christ eternal was one given to Moses by God, not through a historic witness, but by direct revelation. Is it impossible for God to do so in the hearts and minds of others around the world today? Do you want to limit the power of God?

2. [i]"And that is what God is doing today. He is calling people out of the world for his name. Whether they come from the Muslim world or the Buddhist world or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they have been called by God."[/i] Isn't it true that apart from a call from Jesus no one can come to the Lord God? Isn't it also true that Jesus calls those whom have yet to hear the Gospel, or may not even have the opportunity to hear the Gospel. Romans 2:12-16 which I have already quoted in a previous post says that those who have not received the Gospel will be judged by the law of God written in their hearts. Abraham did not have the law, and yet he was able to have faith in God and to become the father of faith. Does not the bible bear witness (especially in Romans 4) that Abraham had faith before he received the circumcision, therefore faith comes before the law! When Billy says that this is what God is doing, I think it can be true to say that this is what God has always been doing. Calling people out of darkness into light. The Spirit bears witness to the Christ even in the absence of a Christian church to share the full Gospel, and Paul shares that they will not be judged by what they do not know, but by the light that has been revealed to each of them by God. In this way, there are many being called to Jesus out of the Muslim world, the Buddhist world, the Hindu world through dreams and visions where Jesus comes directly to an individual and announces his presence to that person. I have met many believers from foreign countries who have received such visitations from Jesus, even while they were in darkness! Just remember, it is not what we call ourselves that makes us children of God, it is whether we are called of God. Billy Graham is stating a biblical truth here, can I get an amen?!

3. [i]"They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they are saved and that they are going to be with us in heaven."[/i] This assumes that God, in his mercy, when He reveals to a person their need for Jesus, gives them enough grace to respond to that revelation. I do admit that this statement can be stronger, and can also be misinterpreted to say something that I do not think Billy intended to say. He is not saying here that all Muslims, all Buddhists and all non-believers have a right relationship with God, on the contrary he is speaking about "called" ones. Billy is speaking about specific people within these communities that do not have a gospel-witness that have been called by God and given enough light to act on that calling. God would only be working to condemn a person if he gave them light unto salvation but not the grace in order to respond to it. That is the principle behind Sovereign Grace. It is funny that while Billy is often labeled as an Armenian heretic, he is here espousing a view that is thoroughly Calvinist in its understanding of God -maybe this is the doing of his late-wife's Presbyterian upbringing.

None of the things that are said in this supposedly condemning interview are actually false when brought under the light of scripture. They just rub our ears wrong. In fact, Billy is saying that Jesus is the only way, but we are twisting his words to say something completely different. The way IS narrow, only a few will enter... but remember, God is the one handing out the tickets, not us! Just because a person doesn't have the same label as I do does not condemn them, each person has to respond to the light that they have been given by Jesus, and they will be judged by Him, not by us. It would be very sad if only Southern Baptists went to heaven, Southern Baptists are great and all, but I would like to think that after two thousand years Jesus has reaped a larger and more diverse crop than just Southern Baptists. Do you see what I am saying?

I have served as a missionary am studying to be a career missionary. I believe that we must preach the Gospel, every believer that has been called by God is compelled by the love of Christ to preach Him and Him only! Woe to me if I do not preach the Gospel. I am not saying that God's Sovereign Grace, even among the gentiles is an excuse to abandon the call to missions. We have been commissioned! We have been given marching orders by our general -it would be mutiny to disobey. God does not need us, and yet he chooses to use us as his instruments. He does not need us to reach the gentiles and yet he calls us to Go with his authority and make disciples of all nations. From this I can only infer that by God's Sovereign will it is through the church preaching the Gospel that the greatest harvest can be gathered. We do not preach a message that condemns people to hell, but one that sets people free from the bondage of Satan.

Certainly there were god-fearers in the biblical narrative. The Queen of Sheba, Naaman, Cornelius, Uriah the Hittite... a careful study of the bible will show that there were many that God drew to the nation of Israel and to Jesus from outside of Israel. Even the entire town of Nineveh, which repented due to the preaching of Jonah will stand at the resurrection as judges along with the saints. However, in contrast with the countless gentiles who were judged and punished by God, it is quite unsettling. The gate is VERY narrow for those to whom the Gospel has not been preached -even the eye-of-the-needle seems very generous in light of the biblical revelation on this. God killed all the firstborns in Egypt, along with countless others in the plagues and the entire army in the Red Sea, only a hand full of Egyptians actually fled with Israel and came under YHWH's banner. We need to preach the Gospel, even if God does call a few individuals out of an unredeemed culture, there are still many more within that culture sinking into hell without the light of the Gospel witness! Billy Graham has been faithful to preach around the world, to millions of people. Sometimes I find it difficult to share my faith with the person next to me on the bus. How about you?

There are men who have made careers out of cutting down other men, but if we look at the scriptures we do not see this in the life of Jesus. He did preach out against hypocrisy and heretical teachings about the Father, but he never named names. Ultimately every one is going to be judged by God according to the light they have been given. Billy Graham is right in saying (in his infamous Larry King appearance) that he is not the judge. It is true that he could have said more pointed and strong statements concerning God, and I believe that he has -because he has given thousands of interviews in which he has said that Jesus is the only way, yet we crucify him for a handful of them where he is less direct than we feel he should have been. Let us stop looking at snap-shots and look at the film version, lets stop looking at individual pieces of fruit and start looking at the whole harvest.

I
iansmith

Either the critics have been silenced or my post was too long and boring for them to read...

L
live4jc


Hi Iansmith,

I agree that Billy Graham has done much in his ministry to advance the cause of Christ and believe that we can benefit from listening to sermons from these early days. At the same time, isn't it wise for us to acknowledge that there may be concerns with a man's present ministry, if he interacts with men like Robert Schuller (as if he were a Christian brother), who is a confessed Universalist ? Should this not concern us from a man known for boldly proclaiming Christ as the only way to God ? The apostle Paul said that our stance towards those who openly proclaimed a gospel contrary to the gospel of Christ, should be to have nothing to do with them.

In Christian love,
John


I
iansmith

John,

Jesus interacted with sinners, prostitutes, pharisees, sadducees, zealots, god-fearers, tax collectors. He preached in synagogues that were predominantly legalistic. He preached in the temple that was given over to idol worship. He was even talking alone with a sinful Samaritan woman by the well! By your own logic, we should discount the ministry of Jesus because of the people he associated with.

On the other hand, we should evaluate the person in light of what they say in those places. Jesus, the embodiment of the Word of God was being both salt and light among the people that he interacted with. Once again, just because the man had a conversation with Robert Schuller does not mean that he is a universalist -you are pronouncing him guilty by association.

Billy Graham is a prominent member of the Southern Baptist Convention... and so is Paul Washer. Therefore the ministry of Paul Washer is heretical and we should not listen to what he has to say nor regard the fruits of his ministry!

George Verwer, founder of one of the most prominent missions agencies of the last half century was converted at a Billy Graham Crusade... does that discount his ministry? He actually met together with Billy Graham last year! Does that discount him for the prize?

In the sixty year ministry of Billy Graham, he has not fallen into adultery, scandal or overt heresy. His ministry has stood the test of time, and even now the organizations that he helped to found continue to spread the Gospel boldly around the globe. One only has to read the Lausanne Covenant (http://www.lausanne.org/covenant), arguably the most significant Christian document of the 20th century to know where Billy stands. He was the one in fact who called together the Lausanne Conference on World Evangelism (at its time the largest gathering of Protestant Evangelical leaders ever assembled) in the spirit of the early ecumenical councils and presided over it, here is what the covenant, signed by Billy Graham says about the uniqueness of Jesus Christ:

[i]3. THE UNIQUENESS AND UNIVERSALITY OF CHRIST
We affirm that there is only one Saviour and only one gospel, although there is a wide diversity of evangelistic approaches. We recognise that everyone has some knowledge of God through his general revelation in nature. But we deny that this can save, for people suppress the truth by their unrighteousness. We also reject as derogatory to Christ and the gospel every kind of syncretism and dialogue which implies that Christ speaks equally through all religions and ideologies. Jesus Christ, being himself the only God-man, who gave himself as the only ransom for sinners, is the only mediator between God and people. There is no other name by which we must be saved. All men and women are perishing because of sin, but God loves everyone, not wishing that any should perish but that all should repent. Yet those who reject Christ repudiate the joy of salvation and condemn themselves to eternal separation from God. To proclaim Jesus as "the Saviour of the world" is not to affirm that all people are either automatically or ultimately saved, still less to affirm that all religions offer salvation in Christ. Rather it is to proclaim God's love for a world of sinners and to invite everyone to respond to him as Saviour and Lord in the wholehearted personal commitment of repentance and faith. Jesus Christ has been exalted above every other name; we long for the day when every knee shall bow to him and every tongue shall confess him Lord.

(Gal. 1:6-9;Rom. 1:18-32; I Tim. 2:5,6; Acts 4:12; John 3:16-19; II Pet. 3:9; II Thess. 1:7-9;John 4:42; Matt. 11:28; Eph. 1:20,21; Phil. 2:9-11) [/i]

Seriously, we need to get on our knees before the Lord and confess the hardness of our hearts. The Lord wants us to seek doctrinal purity, but he also wants us to show grace, mercy and seek unity. There are false prophets and wolves among the sheep, but let us be careful not to throw darts haphazardly, otherwise we will be playing into the plans of the enemy who is the ace dart thrower.

The best way to combat heresy and false teachers is to preach boldly the true Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to proclaim it from the roof tops, in the alleys and back streets! We need to make sure to reach the people that false prophets are currently reaching and feed them with the Living Word. Once again, our model is Jesus, who rebuked his disciples for telling a man to stop driving out demons in the name of Jesus. Ultimately Jesus is the final judge between the shepherds and the wolves, and he will punish the wolves accordingly -let us be faithful to be the best shepherds we can!

S
sermonindex

Suppose I followed you around with a camera and taped everything that you said, every day, whether sick or well, tired or alert, prepared or unprepared, in public or private... would every statement that came out of your mouth have 100% doctrinal precision?

Hey Iansmith... No..I did not read your whole post but think that statement is really a stawman. Nobody followed Billy around secretly trying to find some false statement about some questionable bible doctrine. The statements by Billy that are being discussed in this thread about about ESSENTIAL BASIC easy to understand truth that any new born babe in Jesus Christ understands. Billy denies that Jesus is the only way to be saved in clear denial of what the scripture teaches. That's Christianity 101..actually it may even be easier than Christianity 101. To deny this is to deny Christ no matter how much he uses the name of Jesus or says "God loves you". It's not like Billy is debating or questioning the gift of tongues or head coverings...something debated by much of christianity. He coming against one of the most basic foundational teachings of the faith. I don't care what his past is and neither would Paul. Paul was very clear:

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Paul said that even if he, one of the chief apostles, used by the Lord to write most of the new testement...even if he preached another gospel...let him be accursed. It didn't matter how many people he had led to the Lord, how many churches he had established, how much of the scripture he had penned...if he preached another gospel he would be accursed.

I get the feeling though that if Paul were here today you would be correcting and rebuking Paul for staying true to the scriptures and say he's being judgemental.

I
iansmith

Scott, please cite your sources. Where does Billy Graham deny "Jesus is the only way to be saved in clear denial of what the scripture teaches."

I
iansmith

[b]Straw man arguments[/b]. [i]To portray the position of another in a way that inaccurately represents his point of view but makes an attack on his views easy and more accessible even though it is dishonest[/i].

I said that those who are attacking Billy Graham were taking a few statements out of of the broader context of the man's life in a way that distorted his life and teachings. I stand by this as being a proper assessment of their actions. My analogy was made in order to flesh out what they are guilty of doing in a way that hopefully will help them to see their error and come before Jesus with humility and repent for their character assassination of one of his servants. I am not guilty of a straw man.

S
sermonindex

Scott, please cite your sources. Where does Billy Graham deny "Jesus is the only way to be saved in clear denial of what the scripture teaches."

Rom 10:13 [b]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [/b]
Rom 10:14 [b]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard?[/b] and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

There's no such thing as calling on Jesus and not being conscience of it. You can't call on what you don't know. Paul is clear despite what Billy teaches.

This teaching of calling on an "unknown Jesus" is not found in scriptures.

I
iansmith

Beware the following fallacy:

[b]Poisoning the well[/b]. [i]An attack on a person’s character in a way that seeks to prejudice others against him before he has had a chance to state his case[/i].

I
iansmith

Scott, your quoting Romans 10:13-15 does not discount what Paul also wrote in Romans 2:12-16. These seemingly contradictory statements by Paul either prove that the scripture is not consistent and therefore not the inspired word of God, or there is an explanation that remedies this inconsistency that can be deduced from further study of the scriptures. You are proof-texting at the expense of the whole witness of the scripture.

I
iansmith

No..I did not read your whole post -sscott

Show some courtesy and go back and read what was written... that's just polite.

S
sermonindex

Actually Romans 2:12-16 says nothing about the savlation of unbelievers who don't hear the Gospel that is now required of all to believe to be saved. It simply states that all men, with our without law, will and are guilty before God.

The scripture is quite clear that all have sinned.

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

[b]If[/b] your trying to say that unbelieving gentiles can live in such a way as to not sin they you are saying they can and are justified apart from Christ. But I'm not really sure if you're saying that.

L
live4jc


Hi Iansmith,

Dear brother, just wanted to mention that I did not call Billy Graham a Universalist, only Robert Schuller. I think it's important to consider that the tone of the conversation between the 2 men was not one of an Evangelical Christian correcting a Universalist. It's true that Jesus related to publicans and sinners, as did Paul. However a distinction is drawn in the Bible between being friendly towards people who don't hold to Christian truths, and fellowshipping with them in a spiritual sense, as if they were fellow Christians. There are many admonishments to 'withdraw from", 'reject', 'rebuke' those who present themselves as Christians, but who openly support a message that runs contrary to the gospel. Francis Shaeffer used to say that he would never appear on stage with someone who did not hold to the essential truths of Christianity, if the platform the two of them were sharing was one that would lead the audience to think that they were 'brothers in Christ'. I believe this is the right approach to take.

In Jesus,
John

I
iansmith

live4jc,

Francis Shaeffer on the same stage as Billy Graham:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcQGYIWhR8

-Ian Smith

S
sermonindex

live4jc,

Francis Shaeffer on the same stage as Billy Graham:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZcQGYIWhR8

-Ian Smith

If the scriptures teach anything..it teaches it's not so much how you start...but how you finish.

I
iansmith

Scott,

Hebrews 7 talks about Melchizedek, a priest of the Most High God, who lived outside of the community of Israel (Israel was not yet born) as a Gentile, of whom even the patriarch Abraham was blessed. Is it possible for a person to live outside of the Christian community and have a personal relationship with God?

In Revelations 13:8 it says that Jesus is, "the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world." Salvation was not only available through Jesus after the cross, it has been available since the foundation of the earth, which is why the Patriarchs, Israelites and god-fearers in the Old Testament could be saved by faith before Jesus actually carried his cross up calvary.

In the same way, Jesus' salvation, salvation in Jesus' name is available to those even outside of the witness of the Christian church. They may never have a chance to hear the Gospel, but God will judge them on the light given to them. Remember, he calls, draws and elects people to himself. He can raise up stones as children unto Abraham, it was him who grafted the gentiles into the olive tree that is Jesus.

I am not saying this is a replacement for the Gospel, the Bible is very clear that the majority of people who will be saved will be saved by hearing the Gospel preached to them.

No one can be saved apart from Jesus, yet Jesus has and can through dreams, visions and natural revelation reveal himself to those outside of the Christian church. Given the opportunity to join the church, they will do so without hesitation -but in places like Iran, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, unreached trible groups, this is not always possible.

I
iansmith

If the scriptures teach anything..it teaches it's not so much how you start...but how you finish.

You do realize you are opening up a can of worms that will descend this thread into an oft frequented debate on SermonIndex...

S
sermonindex

No one can be saved apart from Jesus, yet Jesus has and can through dreams, visions and natural revelation reveal himself to those outside of the Christian church.

Yes.. I understand that. The video on the front page of my site is a testimony to that. Yet in these visions the Lord reveals Himself as Jesus. Wonder why Jesus doesn't let these people unconsciencely believe in someone they know nothing of like Billy says happens?

I
iansmith

The people of Nineveh in the book of Jonah repented and God forgave them of their sins -he saved them. Jonah actually knew that this was the heart of God. Jonah 4:2 says, "I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity."

The people of Nineveh were not Jews, they were not circumcised. They repented and followed the Most High God. Paul fleshes this out in Romans 1:19-20, "since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. [b]For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made[/b], so that men are without excuse." Jesus bears witness that they will stand with the saints and judge the world in the last day.

These people of Nineveh were not saved in the name of Jesus, but they were saved by the work of Jesus on the cross. They were saved because they responded to the light given to them, the revelation given to them about the Most High God. Ultimately, the work that saved them is the same work that saves us, the atoning work of Jesus on the cross, and they will bow their knees and worship the Lord Jesus before his thrown as the one who bought their salvation.

L
live4jc

I'm going to bow out of this thread now. Don't want to detract from the purpose of this thread, which was to promote a Christ edifying message. Possibly this discussion might have been better to take place in another thread. It did however, appear necessary for those not familiar with what Billy Graham has been involved in more recently, to be made aware of, since as has been pointed out, there is cause for concern. The scriptures urge us lovingly, but firmly to withdraw from those who walk (and preach) disorderly, such as Schuller.

Love in Christ,
John

H
hulsey

I don't want to enter into a debate bro. I do love you and I only want this reply to simply add clarification to your post about Schaeffer.

I would say that I heartily recommend the sermon that brother Greg has posted it is well worth your time.

I am familiar with the history of the 1974 World Congress on Evangelism that became known by the city it met in. I'm also familiar with why Francis Schaeffer attended and that it was for the same reason that Martyn Lloyd-Jones refused to attend. They were both worried about the allegiance with more liberal Christians even some who denied scripture, whether a denial of its history or inerrancy. His speech was not directed at all towards evangelism, which was the theme of the congress, but to protecting biblical integrity, even in the field of evangelism. Here's a short excerpt from his sermon:

"We must practice the truth we say we maintain. We must practice this truth in the area of religious cooperation where it is costly (This he meant that the cost was that of separation from those who denied the inspiration of Scripture.) If we say that Christianity is truth, yet for any reason, including evangelism, we blur the line between liberal theology and biblical Christianity in the area of religious cooperation, we lose credibility."

The Lausanne Covenant's section on 'Cooperation in Evangelism' ignored this appeal.

I
iansmith

Husley,

The Lausanne Covenant, the defining document of the movement says about biblical inspiration:

[i]2. THE AUTHORITY AND POWER OF THE BIBLE

We affirm the divine inspiration, truthfulness and authority of both Old and New Testament Scriptures in their entirety as the only written word of God, without error in all that it affirms, and the only infallible rule of faith and practice. We also affirm the power of God's word to accomplish his purpose of salvation. The message of the Bible is addressed to all men and women. For God's revelation in Christ and in Scripture is unchangeable. Through it the Holy Spirit still speaks today. He illumines the minds of God's people in every culture to perceive its truth freshly through their own eyes and thus discloses to the whole Church ever more of the many-colored wisdom of God.

(II Tim. 3:16; II Pet. 1:21; John 10:35; Isa. 55:11; 1 Cor. 1:21; Rom. 1:16, Matt. 5:17,18; Jude 3; Eph. 1:17,18; 3:10,18) [/i]

W
whyme

This thread highlights a major issue in the debate about God's salvific redemptive plan. As many point out from Scripture, Jesus said He will draw all men unto Himself. If Christ intends by this statment to draw each and every man, then surely the Father must reveal Christ in all men's hearts at some moment or moments in their life. If this is true, and we know that not all men get actual special revelations of Christ apart from the Gospel, then Iansmith is right, as well as Graham and Schuler, that it must occur on some other basis, subconscious knowledge, universalism, or salvation granted on some modicum of faith in God unrelated to Christ (Catholicism holds this).

Scripture has no real support for this proposition. SScott is correct that Romans 2 is a passage designed to explain that all men are without excuse and guilty before God and responsible for their condemnation. It is not a passage intended to establish another way to God.

What ends up happening for those who hold to each and every man being drawn is they don't think about it or they conjure up alternative means for the gospel to be the power of God unto salvation even for those who don't hear it. This is an extra Biblical pursuit to make sense of a point of view.

To make sense of what seems to be a requirement that God shine the light of the knowledge of Jesus into a man's heart through revelation of the Gospel message and to reconcile the passage that God draws all men to Christ, perhaps the faithful should look to a different answer than universalism, subconscious revelation or other conjectures and speculative theories.

Further, this thread also highlights the difference in how people define and explain regeration and its effects, especially in defining who a Christian is as opposed to how men get saved who haven't heard the Gospel.

For those who find the doctrines of grace to be inhibitors to evangelism, I would certainly think that salvation apart from hearing and responding to the Gospel in a knowing way is a huge wet blanket to asking people to forfeit their very lives to take a message to people who don't apparently really need to hear it, although it would be nice.......

Finally, if Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims, etc. can find their own path to God through their religions as implied, then idolatry has no meaning and Christ's death no purpose. Men who preach such things teach the doctrines of demons, It doesn't matter who they are or what they've done in the past.

I
iansmith

Whyme,

Please do not twist my words. I have stated repeatedly that I do not hold a universalist understanding of scripture. I believe in hell, and I believe that the scripture testifies that apart from Jesus no man can be saved. I am missionary candidate not because I believe that there is any other way to be saved, but because I know that there are millions every day sinking into hell without the knowledge of Jesus.

"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" Romans 9:21-22

God clearly does not give light unto salvation to all men, this is born out in scripture. However, I am saying that it is not BEYOND God to give light unto a few through natural theology and their own consciences which testify to his existence unto repentance and faith in Jesus.

Consider what John the Baptist says, "Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For [b]I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham[/b]." Luke 3:8

Finally, if Hindus, Buddhist, Muslims, etc. can find their own path to God through their religions as implied

You obviously have not read my post nor considered Billy Graham's statement, this is absolutely not what I am saying. There is no path through any other religion or philosophy that leads to the Father. I am saying that the Father has the power to call people out of those groups individually through personal revelation even if there is not a witnessing church present. This is something we are seeing is increasingly common with Muslims who oftentimes receive dreams and visions of the Lord Jesus Christ.

W
whyme

Ian Smith, didn't mean to throw you under the bus. My comments were directed at the crowd that believes in the wider mercy of God like Shuller and even Graham if what he has said in the recent past is what I think it is. Sorry.

As for special revelation of Christ to a "few", especially where the church isn't reaching, I agree with you. I've seen some amazing testimonials in this regard. But even those exceptional special revelations where Christ reveals Himself without a witness prove that apart from such revelation and the knowledge of Him shone in the heart, that salvation will not come except through Christ. Thus, my question for the thread, how does God draw ALL men unto Himself (as in each and every man) if we know that not all men are preached to or receive a special knowing revelation?

H
hoohoou

I like what was said about Solomon and David living at times in sin. Though they did those things we still read their Inspired Word. We know that Billy Graham may have stepped back from what he once preached, fine. What is not up for debate is that this message has the power to lead people to Christ. Jonathan Edwards is dead and Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God still preaches today. Leonard Ravenhill is dead and his sermons most certainly still preach. Paris Reidhead is dead and Ten Shekels and a Shirt changed the way I see the Church. Billy may be dead spiritually now, if he does in fact think there are other ways to heaven except Christ, but this sermon still preaches. It is the Gospel and the Gospel will always have the power to save man's soul. It doesn't matter what the man who preached it now thinks. In my most humble opinion, Matt.

K
KingJimmy

I listened to this sermon carefully. I believe Christ was proclaimed in it, and done so in power. Whatever one may say about Billy Graham, past, present, or future, this particular sermon hit the spot. This sermon is ultimately about picking up one's cross, denying self, and shows how the cross finds application in one's devotional life, and call to world evangelization.

For those of you who don't care to see this sermon featured: Let's not pick out gnats and swallow camels.

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