John Piper to Feature Rick Warren at 2010 Desiring God

[b]John Piper to Feature Rick Warren at 2010 Desiring God[/b]

Dear Guests of IDOTG:

Earlier this month I requested and have now received written confirmation from Bethlehem Baptist Church (BBC) that John Piper invited and will host Rick Warren as a keynote speaker at his (Piper’s) 2010 Desiring God conference.

The source from BBC said Desiring God will, “…eventually be posting registration instructions and conference details, including a video from John Piper on why he invited this year’s speakers,” including Rick Warren.

To date the Desiring God site for national conferences does not disclose Rick Warren or any other speakers for this year’s event. Piper’s explanation for the invitation to Rick Warren will I’m sure be thoroughly critiqued by a wide circle of concerned believers.

Rick Warren needs little introduction to Fundamental or evangelical circles. Most would recognize Warren has personally done more harm to authentic biblical Christianity in recent years than most any other pastor in Christian circles. For example:

Warren embraces deliberate pragmatism of the worst kind: He believes that anyone one can be reached based on “finding the key to that person’s heart.” Warren says, “We let the unchurched needs determine our programs; the unchurched hang-ups determine our strategy; the unchurched culture determine our style; the unchurched population determine our goals.” (Purpose Driven website)

Warren routinely misuses Scripture: The Bible is a tool that Warren manipulates to cover his own ideas with a veneer of divine authority.

Warren promotes extreme ecumenism: He has forged ties with the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist World Alliance and the United Nations. Warren said, “I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody,” Noting he has theological differences with many of the diverse denominations that invite him to speak, Warren added, “That doesn't stop me from fellowshipping with them.” When he heard of the SBC's withdrawal, he added, “I thought, ‘This is silly! Why would we separate ourselves from brothers and sisters in the world?’” (Rick Warren at the Baptist World Alliance- Global Baptists Are in This Together.)

Warren redefines ministry in terms of social activism: Warren’s Global Peace Plan for “Purpose Driven Nations” includes involving himself with the UN, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. in order to rid the world of “poverty, disease, and illiteracy” by forming entangling alliances between churches, secular businesses, and governments. This is an agenda completely foreign to and for Warren replaces the Great Commission and the New Testament church as laid out in Acts and the Pauline Epistles. Through his cooperative efforts, Warren aligns himself with the same UN that seeks to “rid the world” of unborn infants through their murder while still in the womb.

Warren accepts the worst sort of evangelistic reductionism: “Wherever you are reading this, I invite you to bow your head and quietly whisper the prayer that will change your eternity: ‘Jesus, I believe in you and receive you.'’ If you sincerely meant that prayer, congratulations! Welcome to the family of God!”(PDL, p. 74).
Rick Warren’s Saddleback church is one of this generation’s most stark fulfillments of the Apostle Paul’s prophetic statement,
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables, (2 Tim. 4:3-4).
Even all of this is not enough for John Piper to exercise restraint and refrain from featuring Rick Warren at Desiring God.

John Piper hosts and endorses the ministry of Mark Driscoll who has preached at Robert Schuler’s Crystal Cathedral and is notorious for his disgraceful filth speech in the pulpit. Now Piper adds Rick Warren to his approved list of keynote speakers. No one can understand or explain why Piper embraces Rick Warren except Piper himself. This is a huge disconnect from what Piper writes in his books. One must question that Piper believes what he writes in his own books.

Will this be enough for John MacArthur, author of The Truth War, to finally obey the warranted biblical mandates to withdraw from John Piper. To cease from featuring Piper at his Resolved youth conference and/or sharing platforms with him? If MacArthur’s track record speaks to this, he will not.

There is a Trojan horse being allowed access to IFB circles and seminaries. In a thread at the pseudo- fundamentalist site Sharper Iron, Dr. Gerald Priest (DBTS faculty) wrote,
“Kevin [Bauder]…has spent very little time warning us about the pitfalls and problems of conservative evangelicalism…. What I fear is that we may be allowing a Trojan horse into the fundamentalist camp. And after a while, if we keep going down this track, any significant difference between conservative evangelical and the fundamentalist institutions may disappear.” (See- Let’s Get “CRYSTAL” Clear on This: Kevin Bauder’s, “Foremost Defenders of the Gospel Today?”

Is this finally enough to halt the Trojan horse, in the form of John Piper, at the door and bar him from entrance into the Fundamentalist camp?

Kevin Bauder and Dave Doran are among Fundamentalism’s most vocal advocates of tolerance for and acceptance of the so-called conservative evangelicalism. Will John Piper’s hosting Rick Warren finally be enough for them to raise a genuine alarm to our next generation over Piper’s theology and practice? Is this finally enough to openly call for separatism from Piper in unvarnished terms? Will this be enough to discourage lavish praise of Piper’s ministry apart from any serious ministry of warning?

Will this be enough for a segment of Reformed IFB men to finally “withdraw from” and “have no company with” (2 Thess. 3:6, 14), to “mark” and “avoid” (Rom. 16:17) John Piper? Or will Piper’s hosting Rick Warren, just as his charismatic theology, hosting a RAP artist in his church, et. al., be tolerated, allowed for and excused for the sake of increased exposure to and fellowship with him?

LM

Site Publisher’s Note:
John Piper has announced he is taking an extended leave of absence from ministry through 2010. He will, however, be engaged in Desiring God.
As you may have already heard in the sermon from March 27-28, the elders graciously approved on March 22 a leave of absence that will take me [John Piper] away from Bethlehem from May 1 through December 31, 2010…. I asked the elders to consider this leave because of a growing sense that my soul, my marriage, my family, and my ministry-pattern need a reality check from the Holy Spirit.
See Desiring God for his full disclosure.

from: [url=http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-piper-to-feature-rick-warren-at.html]http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2010/03/john-piper-to-feature-rick-warren-at.html[/url]

Considering the source of this document, my guess it is an April Fool's joke. Not Greg Gordon, but the original blog this appears on.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

you are right brother I am going to lock this thread until we can confirm this 100%

It is 100% confirmed, so I have re-opened the thread.

You can pipers audio explaining it here:

[b]John Piper Invites Rick Warren[/b]
[url=http://www.benterry.com/?p=273]http://www.benterry.com/?p=273[/url]

I personally am not against rick warren or others. I believe this is a great thing and could really be a way to see his ministry and influence used for the true gospel.

I have mercy and acceptance to all the preachers of false gospels that want to change their ways!

"maybe" even rick warren will be on sermonindex one day!

Hey Greg,

Who wouldn't want to see preachers of a false gospel change their ways? I listened to the audio and couldn't find anything that would suggest that Rick was wanting to change his ways. Did I miss something?

I'm not sure how this could be a great thing. Of course the Lord can use anything to bring someone to repentance. But there should be some discernment... there's a difference in calling someone to repentance compared to giving that person a place in the pulpit which carries some weight of authority. When has giving a preacher of a false gospel a place of authority to speak at a conference been accepted as a means to influence their ministry with the true gospel?

Maybe a preacher of a false gospel could speak at the next revival conference? You just never know how they might be influenced!!

The Gospel is that Jesus Christ has come, died and risen for sinners. I don't think that Rick Warren would deny this.

Neither would the Pope, Todd Bently, Benny Hinn, ..ect..ect. They would all affirm those truths.

Did you read the original article posted by Greg?

Altar calls and that sort of thing are straight from men like Booth and Finney, so to decry one while overlooking it in others is a bad practice.

I'm not sure anyone said this was about altar calls.

you wrote:

Honestly, I am so tired of the alarmist mud slinging that goes on within most circles, and the lack of prayer for these people. It seems that we are all very quick to shame a man without pointing to their precise errors.

but look at this way, they got to have something to do. Religion is fun, you get to feel that burning righteous indignation, the feeling of "I'm standing on the word", or "I'm a watchman on the wall". Also the feeling of holding a stone in my hand to "wield god's wrath for he has called me to defend his honor". its a delicious feeling for religionists, that feeling of superiority, self righteouness, just masking the dark heart of man, his murderous violent selfish unloving urges, his hiding his true heart with theo-speak, the outside veneer all shiny, surface so bright, the package immaculate, white-washed.

But inside, stinking rotten bones.

This horror is not new, Elijah was chased from one end of Israel to another, Jeremiah was dumped into a pit of mud, Eli thought a weeping broken hearted Hannah was a drunk, while his own sons, "clergymen" were just thieving rotten wastrels. i bet they looked good to the rank and file of those days religionists, but they were scum and hypocrites.

The adulteress brought before Jesus, ready to be stoned, oh ...those men wanted to see her skull broken open and brains splattered on the ground, they longed for that, they were 'righteous' men..oh yes, and they wanted that thrill to cover and mask their darkness of heart, and Jesus Messiah saved this broken woman.

and of the men who slapped and mocked him, both Jew and Roman, they were doing "right", after all this "nobody from Nazareth" was claiming to be God....HE DESERVES IT, doesnt He? Its fun to mete out "divine punishment", just a thrill, because it distracts you from confronting the real issue, one's own dark heart, thats what makes religion fun. thats what makes theological arguments fun, it allows you to spend idle time between boring moments of life on this cruel violent, unloving sin soaked world.

God sees all, He sees the Sheep, he sees the Goats. oh buddy the Day of the Lord will be awesome and frightful, the winnowing process fraught with peril, who can stand it?

RELIGION KILLS, Jesus saves, amen.

neil

Folks,

I'm not sure if you realize this, but Rick Warren is, theologically, just about in line with most of the preachers featured on this website. He might not use the same lingo as some of these guys. It might not be as "firey" (if that's a word). Go ahead and read Purpose Driven life...its all about living the Gospel. How is that any different than what is usually featured on this website?

There is a video here on why he invited rick warren he just made:
[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/2323_more_details_about_our_national_conference/]http://www.desiringgod.org/Blog/2323_more_details_about_our_national_conference/[/url]

and here on youtube:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlxRKLXk1WE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlxRKLXk1WE[/url]

So far, there has been a lot of talk about what Warren supposedly teaches and doesn't teach without any substance to back it up.

I have heard Warren preach about repentance and faith in Christ, so that ruins that argument.

Your right brother. Just listen to this sound gospel message he's preaching to a group of lost people. Just reminds you of the Apostle Paul and his sermon in Acts 17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvyyEIEDqrQ&feature=player_embedded

Rick Warren Openly lying:

Supporting Prop 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0&feature=related

Rick Warren denying his support
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73la_jFdMMc&feature=related

Another "strong" Gospel presentation by Rick Warren (seriously..can you find this anywhere in scriptuer?):

"But going back to this thing about heaven and getting into a perfect place. Let’s say we got a scale of 1 to 100. Let’s put Hitler at zero and Mother Teresa at 100 OK. And Steve you’re at 85 and Larry’s at 65 and I’m at 45. The truth is, some people are better than others, there’s no doubt about it. Some people are more moral than others, they’re nicer, they’re less selfish, less self-centered, things like that. But the truth is, nobody makes [it] to perfection… And so somebody’s got to make up that difference. And that’s the gift I believe Jesus came to – to make up the difference between my zero and my 100 or my 45 and 100 -- somebody’s got to make up that difference. "

http://www.beliefnet.com/News/2008/12/Rick-Warren-Transcript.aspx?p=3

Here Rick Warren blurs the lines of truth and works together with false relgions in the name of eliminating poverty. Where do we find the command to unite with false religions in the name of ending poverty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fn3QyzMmEQ&feature=player_embedded

http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/12/one-sabbath.html

The problem with guys like Rick Warren is that "social issues" or "social justice" trumps over abosolute gospel truth. So in the name of supposedly "acting like Jesus" we can ignore what Jesus has actually said. Thus leavening the church with compromise.

Flame away, say all the derogatory things you wish, call me deluded and falling for the Babylonian religion

not me. in fact i think this thread is just tragic, because its a vivid display of "religionism".

you know, i do a lot of "open source" reading...i wanted to ascertain our nations adversaries theology, ie jihadi's, and i've lurked on "islamic" discussion forums, and guess what? They do the same thing, arguing fussing backbiting about this "sura" and that "sura". The sunni/shia divide actually mimics the Catholic/Protestant divide, except those boys, when they get to fussing, they actually kill each other over it.

religionism has a rotting stench over it, but Messiah is Sweet Fragrance indeed.

poor Rick Warren, he got it from the secularists when he prayed at the President inuagural, and he got it from the religionists at the same time, now THATS persecution.

oh well, time just moves forward, and nothing is new under the sun, until the Son comes back, then watch out goats.

I'm bowing out of this converstaion from here. There's clearly enough information available, and easily accesable, to anyone who really want's to know if Rick Warren should be promoted and allow to speak to a body of believers.

I think John Piper would better serve the gospel and the truth in speaking to Rick Warren in private about gospel truths. Simply becaues Rick Warren is reading someone Piper agrees with (Jonathan Edwards) is no reason to let someone have the pulpit who's influence could very well leaven the believers attending.

God Bless...

i'm gonna go out on a limb and make a prediction; this thread gets locked.

Can I ask you who are you speaking to with comments like that?

religionists.

Those who appear (and sound) Godly, but inside that white washed exterior?

just rotten bones.

why do you ask? Matthew 25 has always been one of my favorite Chapters....oh my, in it, Jesus speaks of what?

Feeding the poor,giving drink to the thirsty, sheltering the sojourner, clothing the poor,healing the sick, visiting prisoners.

seems to me, if Jesus posted something like that on this forum, he'd have a flurry of posters rebuking Him for preaching the "social gospel".

can you imagine that...a saved sinner rebuking Jesus?

thats why its my firm conviction the Pharisees never really died out, they just morphed into "Evangelical's".

and dont misunderstand me, we are TASKED with discharging the Great Commission, but how that walks Itself out, now there's the rub.

why do you ask? Matthew 25 has always been one of my favorite Chapters....oh my, in it, Jesus speaks of what?

Neil,

If you'll take just a moment and read Matt 25:40 you'll understand just who Jesus says they gave their drink, food, and clothing too.

Here's a good explination by John Gill:

[b]Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my
brethren, ye have done it unto me:[/b]

which is to be understood, not in so limited a sense, as to regard only the apostles, and the least of them, for these were not the only brethren of Christ; nor in so large a sense, as to include all in human nature; but the saints only, the children of God, and household of faith: for though acts of charity and humanity are to be done to all men, yet especially to these; and indeed, these only can be considered as the brethren of Christ, who are born of God, and do the will of Christ; for such he accounts his mother, brethren, and sisters; and who are not only of the same human nature, but in the same covenant with him, and the sons of God, not by nature, as he is the Son of God, but by adoption, and so are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ: now he that does any of the above acts of kindness to these "brethren" of Christ, and because they stand in such a relation to him, even the "least" of them: though he is not an apostle, or a martyr, or a preacher of the Gospel, or has any considerable gifts and abilities for usefulness, but is a weak believer in spiritual things, as well as poor in temporal things; and though it is but to "one" of these opportunity and circumstances not allowing it to be done to more; yet as such is the humility and condescension of this great king, as to account such mean persons his brethren; such also is his grace and goodness, as to reckon every instance of kindness and respect shown to them, as done to himself in person; and will take notice of it, accept and reward it, as if it had been so done.

Sean,

rest assured, i have spent many many "moments" reading eating the Gospel accounts, in fact, one of my practices is to read and re-read over and over the Four Gospel accounts, with Acts, because that Book contains the Ministry of the Ressurected Messiah, the Forty Days before the Ascension, and that is seminal to the totality of Messiah.

The reason i sometimes engage in this practice at the leadig of the Holy Spirit is because i want to apprehend WHO Jesus IS, what His Words are, to breathe Them in, apprehend Him. i dont say that to boast in the flesh, but to blunt your verbiage, "if you'll take just a moment and read..."

i have read and God willing, i will keep reading while in this tent of flesh.

20 minutes ago i didnt know who John Gill was, i looked him up to place him, saw that he is considered by some as the "father of hyper-calvinism" (Praise God i dont to this day know what "calvinism" is, or "arminism", or the countless "ism's" that flood the Faith)

Basically as i understand from this commentary, what Messrs Gill is saying is that ONLY the saints recieve such succor, though from what i can make out, Gill begrudingly indicates we are to do tzedakah to the tzzadiqim (the saints)...if i read the man right:

which is to be understood, not in so limited a sense, as to regard only the apostles, and the least of them, for these were not the only brethren of Christ; nor in so large a sense, as to include all in human nature; but the saints only, the children of God, and household of faith

nor in so large a sense as to include ALL in human nature?

Did Jesus ever check anybody's credentials before He healed them?......or to check if the 5,000 had entry badges before He fed them?

If that is what this MAN is saying in this COMMENTARY, John Gill is wrong.

It's funny, not in a ha-ha way, but being raised as a Jew, Hebrew schooled, Torah schooled, i see such commonalities between Yeshiva's and Seminaries, its just tragic, in Yeshiva, they dont study the Law, The Writings and The Prophets...they study and memorize Talmud, and all Talmud is are COMMENTARIES, can you imagine that?!? what a singular waste of time, and its the same way with seminaries, reams and reams of commentary.

Now if thats your thing, if thats where God is leading you, delving into commentaries, Bless God, but i would stay far far away from commentaries, because if i read this man Gill right, he just interpeted that portion of "Sheeps and Goats" to confine all acts of love mercy and charity to the "saints", and that is just grievous. You see a hungry man on the street and you dont feed him?

or were you just trying to give buttress to these children of hell who engage in the sin of seperating the Gospel into two parts, "salvation Gospel" and "social Gospel", by citing this man's opinion?

Just as the Gentile followers of Jesus Messiah have sinned by whacking up the Body of Christ, that is the Church, into 500 pieces, 500 denominations, so they sin by dividing the Gospel into two pieces.

and if you need a good "commentary", may i present for your consideration, God the Holy Ghost? When i read the Word, before i do, i ask Him to help me understand His Word, and He is faithful, always.

Of course brother, i enjoy non-canonical books on the Faith, my two favorites are "Life of Brainerd" and "Life Together".

but if i'm wrong in my interp of what Gill wrote, please illuminate me.

now i DO know why, in the Bible, men rend their clothes.

I can do that.

i just dont have any ashes to lay in, nor a decent sackcloth.....

Actually Neil, I didn't go search that out in a commentary...I just posted that for your benefit. (Also, I'm not a Calvinist and could care less whether John Gill was a Calvinist or not) Here's what he said was:

"for though acts of charity and humanity are to be done to all men, yet especially to these; and indeed, these only can be considered as the brethren of Christ,"

Though charitable deeds are to be done towards all of humanity the context of Matt 25 is brethren. I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit has been your teacher if He is teaching you to do and accept things that violate the word of God. Nowhere is the Church commanded or exhorted to walk hand in hand with believers of false religions under the pretext of ending poverty. If you want to violate scripture and endorse these practices and say the "Holy Spirit" is leading you to do these thing that's obviously your choice. There's no such thing as a "social gospel" that violates the word of God that is acceptable to God. Like I said, if you want to be part of the end time dumbing down of the word of God in the name of "love" your welcome to follow suit with all the other ministries that are compromising these days.

God's Word is clear:

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

What about Jesus feeding the 5,000? Did he run around trying to end world hunger or did he feed those who came to hear him teach on the kingdom of God? Can you tell me which one it was?

In Romans 15 did Paul encourage a collection to be made for the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem or for the poor Saints in Jerusalem?

The "Poor" today have become and Idol in the eyes of so called Christians. Anythings acceptable as long as you are feeding and clothing the poor. It's this exalting of "social justice" at the expense of God's Word that brings about a false unity and a compromised church.

When John the Baptist went to Jesus to ask Him if He was the one..what did Jesus say?

Did He say "Tell John I've working with the Romans and the Pagans from the temple to help end the hunger of the poor"?

No..Jesus said something quite different.

Mat 11:5 The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them.

The "poor" have the gospel preached to them! That's what the poor and all men need. They don't need so called Christians walking hand in hand with unbelieving Muslim, Jews, and Hindus in violation of the word of God to ease their hunger. They need the Gospel which is what Christ gave them.

I'm not against ministry to the poor. I've ministered quite a bit to the poor in the inner city and in two different countries I've lived in. What I am against, because the scripture is, is the walking hand in hand with those that reject Christ for the sake of idolizing the poor.

But, I know this is all part of a demonic plan to unite different faiths using a common goal that makes people feel so good. I mean, how could helping the poor be wrong? Who could possibly speak against that! The devil is so crafty to use "good works" to deceive people who don't love the word of God.

But, these are the times we live in and this type of compromise will only increase.

This video featuring Rick Warren encourages others to follow his compromise:

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fn3QyzMmEQ&feature=player_embedded]Rick Warren - One Sabbath[/url]

When will people realize, with God, the ends do not justify the means.

slow down.

first i have never read of any messrs Warren's books, nor listened to any of his messages, don't know what the onus of "Purpose Driven", is...except well, purpose driven. And not because i was warned, but because i just wasnt interested.

I do know this, you writing to me:

I seriously doubt that the Holy Spirit has been your teacher if He is teaching you to do and accept things that violate the word of God.

such a statement. very nice. but it only gets worse, you further accuse me:

Nowhere is the Church commanded or exhorted to walk hand in hand with believers of false religions under the pretext of ending poverty. If you want to violate scripture and endorse these practices and say the "Holy Spirit" is leading you to do these thing that's obviously your choice.

never did i purpose walking hand in hand with anybody, nor did i speak of "ending poverty".

futhermore:

Like I said, if you want to be part of the end time dumbing down of the word of God in the name of "love" your welcome to follow suit with all the other ministries that are compromising these days.

look at your verbiage: "if you want to...." followed by me either a. "violating" Scripture or b. joining some foul end time conspiracy/ministry intent on compromising and "dumbing down" the Word of God.

false accusations, underline that word, accuse. I know who the accuser is. You have given picture perfect illustration to my prior posts about "religion" and "religionists".

It is kind of a dirty little thrill, a rush, to accuse someone of something BAD, isn't Sean? You don't feel so bad about yourself then, right? in this case, you accusing me of "violating" Scripture, "compromise", "be a part of the end time dumbing down", etc etc etc ad nauseum, provides you with an outlet to eviscerate me, and that my friend is a very powerful drug, called "religion", practiced by "religionists". Better than meth, right? At least this kind of rush, doesnt get you thrown in jail, and you can travel the world peddling "religion".

There is a vast gulf between "religion" and Messiah. You go into the 10/40 window, to the muslim world and their "religionists" WILL cut your head off, becaause thats their dirty little thrill, i hear the softly breathed "allahuakbar",("god is great") when a jihadi lights an IED off killing our boys. they enjoy filming their sin and murder.

ah, i've had enough of this, God have mercy on you son. neil

Neil,

It's very clear for everyone to see your intent in this thread (Not only this one but other threads as well). You clearly came into the thread accusing people. And you, as far as I've seen, usually bow out by deriding others while affirming how you "really" follow the Messiah.

first i have never read of any messrs Warren's books, nor listened to any of his messages, don't know what the onus of "Purpose Driven",

I find it interesting that you would come on so strong to defend someone you know nothing about. Do you normally do that? Do you ever do any research?

This thread has been about two individuals - John Piper and Rick Warren. Rick Warren embraces multi-faith social justice to "reach the poor". After this has been brought up you tell us all how Matt 25 is your favorite passage. Obviously there is a tie there (very easy to see). Then you say:

why do you ask? Matthew 25 has always been one of my favorite Chapters....oh my, in it, Jesus speaks of what?

Feeding the poor,giving drink to the thirsty, sheltering the sojourner, clothing the poor,healing the sick, visiting prisoners.

seems to me, if Jesus posted something like that on this forum, he'd have a flurry of posters rebuking Him for preaching the "social gospel".

can you imagine that...a saved sinner rebuking Jesus?

As if Rick Warren and Jesus are doing the same thing. The truth is, Jesus wouldn't be rebuked. Jesus wouldn't be doing the things Rick Warren is (compromising for the sake of "feeding the least of these"). But I'm sure if Jesus was here, and He rebuked those who compromised with other faiths, there would be so called people who "really follow the Messiah" who would be angry. They would hate that faithful religionist who stayed on the narrow path, doing the will of His father, and not compromising with the world and the apostatizing and pagan faiths in it.

As with you, I'll bow out, and may the God of peace bring about a true unity not built on compromise.

you wrote:

It's very clear for everyone to see your intent in this thread (Not only this one but other threads as well)

so in fairness and the authenticity of self examination, i went back and read my posts on this thread, there were two stand alone's and one response to a question, as to what i meant by "watch out goats", before ...you....responded to me.

Before i paste my first post, which was to buttress what roaringlamb was saying, let me quote some Scripture as to the onus of what i was saying:

"He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: "Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted."
Luke 18:9-14 ESV

this is the very same pattern that repeats and repeats on some of these threads, religious pride soaked thru and thru, IT IS ABHORENT, thats what i was saying when i wrote my first post:

but look at this way, they got to have something to do. Religion is fun, you get to feel that burning righteous indignation, the feeling of "I'm standing on the word", or "I'm a watchman on the wall". Also the feeling of holding a stone in my hand to "wield god's wrath for he has called me to defend his honor". its a delicious feeling for religionists, that feeling of superiority, self righteouness, just masking the dark heart of man, his murderous violent selfish unloving urges, his hiding his true heart with theo-speak, the outside veneer all shiny, surface so bright, the package immaculate, white-washed.

thats a partial quote of what i wrote. i didnt accuse "people", i spoke to what i regard as religious pride, and if my words seem hard, deal with it, ignore me, whatever you wish to do, but i will speak, i will not engage in what i regard as sinful groupthink, "yes and amening", what i feel to be wrong hearted, that is cowardice, and trust me on this, coz there are those who know me in life: if you were sitting in front of me, i'd say exactly the same to you in person, mano a mano, as i would over this medium.

and i did spend three sentences defending Rick Warren. not his theology which i know little of, but this:

poor Rick Warren, he got it from the secularists when he prayed at the Presidential inuagural, and he got it from the religionists at the same time, now THATS persecution.

and i believe you read my words wrong, I wrote that Matthew 25 was ONE of my favorite chapters, you mis-quoted me as saying it was my "favorite". I have hundreds of favorite chapters, verses, from Genesis 1 to Revelations 22, precious gems but Matthew 25 struck me as germaine to this thread,
and then i concluded that with something i've been witnessing over the last eight years:

thats why its my firm conviction the Pharisees never really died out, they just morphed into "Evangelical's".

I wasnt defending "someone",(said someone being Rick Warren) i was speaking out against a certain hard heartedness within those who should know better having been show the Mercy of a Loving God. Instead, they re-build the foundations of the "church of i hate you"

How do i know this, your very words condemn you:

But I'm sure if Jesus was here

If? "if Jesus was here"?

He is here.

and He rebuked those who compromised with other faiths, there would be so called people who "really follow the Messiah" who would be angry.

"who would be angry"...angry? You angry, over these "so called people"? Join in a long line of angry men soaked with religious pride, who took that anger and chopped the heads off people who were "so called", angry men, who burnt "hereticks" at the stake, angry men, who forced 'conversions' at the pain of death, all done in the Name of Jesus. Its no wonder why the shortest verse in the Bible is "Jesus Wept."...so with your words it seems you join this long historical line of angry men, do you really want to be their son?

When you can love the unlovable, the Kingdom of Heaven is near you.

dont worry, i wont hold you to your twice uttered promise of bowing out from this thread if you respond. I might not answer back, lost causes are a waste of time, pearls to swine and all that, you understand.

"I personally am not against rick warren or others. I believe this is a great thing and could really be a way to see his ministry and influence used for the true gospel.

I have mercy and acceptance to all the preachers of false gospels that want to change their ways!

"maybe" even rick warren will be on sermonindex one day!"

Sermonindex.

....................................

Paul the Apostle said; "CURSE HIM!"

Galatians 1:6

6."I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."

And the apostle John said:

9."Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

The false teachers and prophets are to be treated one way, according to the Apostle's doctrine; Rejected and marked.

"A false prophet in the early church was known by the fruits of his ministry and life and not by what he said or his creed.".............elected

Exactly the opposite, elected, though this may be but semantics, because we agree entirely.

Revelation 2:20

"Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a PROPHETESS. By her TEACHING she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols."

Teaching means ...."what you say."

and "sexual immorality", and "misleading" unto idolatry, would constitute her "creed or fruits."

1Timothy4:1

1."Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2. Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;...."

"There is evidence enough that his..[ Rick Warren's ] messages are watered down with humanistic worldviews.

"There is a dangerous trend of unsanctified pragmatism and worldly compromise in his ministry, and I wonder why He is so supportive of eastern mysticism under of disguise of Christian mysticism or of well known new age writers."....................................,,,,elected......Redi.

Amen Redi. It is not a Christian message, but an inclusive one, teaching there is more than one road to God, and that our well being and good purposes are the reason we exist on Earth, no matter our faith.

Warren teaches this, and it is nothing less than a doctrine of DEVILS. Why a man of God would allow him to seduce his people is simply glaring compromise to me, and foolish. There is a falling away from the pure faith once delivered to the Apostles happening before our eyes, in monumental terms. It is mind boggling to me, as I see one after another exposed as compromised.

The true church however, is being separated unto the Lord as we speak, and can see it as clear as day.

Thanks LYSA for your insight, and your comment spurred me to listen to Poonen's series on Jerusalem to Babylon.

Zac Poonen is truly a gifted Bible teacher, and I always glean a blessing listening to him.

Also, A big TY to sermomindex for making these resources available freely.
Tom

"This story expresses what is the waiting catastrophe of visibly and conspicuously intermingling the Name and work of Christ and His Church, with earthly and political affairs."...From ChrisJD's post....

Warren's Ecumenical agenda:

"Last week at the Clinton Global Initiative, Warren was asked how "the church" could help to solve poverty.

"His response was to rattle off the numbers of Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and Christians in the world - in that order - and make a plea that the public and private sectors take seriously "the faith sector as the third leg of the stool of successful development".

This is Warren's world view of the CHURCH!

"Warren consistently used the language of a religious pluralist. He spoke of "mosques, temples and churches" as central to the life of villages in the developing world."

He underscored the fact that there are huge numbers of people of faith in the world, and huge numbers of houses of worship in places where clinics, banks and schools don't exist.

Those people of faith can be trained to be the arms and legs of any development plan, and those houses of worship can double as clinics, banks and schools."

[ Washington Post link..]

One happy world under one god, where everyone helps each other. Sounds like they need a "MAN OF PEACE" TO RUN IT ALL....hmmmm...

John14:1

Our Savior said; 1. “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

2. In My Father’s house are many mansions;[a] if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

4. And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

5. Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, and how can we know the way?”

6. Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

7. “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”

Rick Warren does not believe or teach that there is one and only way to the Father, but that the Father includes all nations in His church, and all faiths, that lead to the same God.

His god is the god of this world, and his all inclusive gospel of mobilizing all faiths to serve each other is simply the gospel of anti-Christ. This is the ultimate New Age theology that surpasses liberalism. It is an ugly and wicked thing, devised by Satan to snuff out the one true light;

THAT JESUS CAME AND DIED FOR THE WORLD, THAT WHOEVER WOULD RECEIVE HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.

He is the one and only way to the Father.

Again, it is beyond reason that a man of God would want him at his church, or join with him in any way. It is a sad thing, to me.

Paul in Athens
16Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols. 17So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons, and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there. 18Some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers also conversed with him. And some said, "What does this babbler wish to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a preacher of foreign divinities"—because he was preaching Jesus and the resurrection. 19And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20For you bring some strange things to our ears. We wish to know therefore what these things mean." 21Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.
Paul Addresses the Areopagus
22So Paul, standing in the midst of the Areopagus, said: "Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious. 23For as I passed along and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, 'To the unknown god.' What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything. 26And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27 that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us, 28for

"'In him we live and move and have our being';

as even some of your own poets have said,

"'For we are indeed his offspring.'

29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man. 30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead."

32Now when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked. But others said, "We will hear you again about this." 33So Paul went out from their midst. 34But some men joined him and believed, among whom also were Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris and others with them
------------------------------------------------

So Paul went to Athens, saw all the idolatry, and such, and what did he do?

what did he do?

he reasoned with people. oh the horrors! "philosphers" at that!

he even complimented them..."percieve in every way that you are religious"...

and even quoted from their own poets!!!! that compromiser Paul!!! (Paul, i'm being sarcastic, tzaddiq.....right, whats going on here is the same spirit that would have you foaming at the mouth, running up to Damascus, to wage holy hell, until that is, Messiah struck you down...what?....no, i know, at least you got your sight back, Praise the Name. hug an angels neck for me, Paul tzzadiq)

im sorry, did i say something?

a facebook page, where the "righteous" can eviscerate each other in full public view. OHHHH! look at those christians, how they love one another!

farcical witness, would be to God he make our keyboards cleve to the base of the computer, or Bless God, just take the electric grid down, start the Day of the Lord early.

mod's i prayed....

Let's get it on ! Come Lord Jesus ! Just don't let you love wax cold Matt.24:9-12 and don't get swept away by the lie 2 Thess. 2:10-12 . Love endures all things!!! We really don't know what is on the inside until the test . People get ready!!! When rightiousness cost a high price we will see who is true and false ??? Only then will we know who fears God and who does not? Gen.22:12 when that happens the unrightious will try to kill the rightious because their deeds are evil. Just like Cain did to Able. The biggest thing you need to be aware of is you need to be able to walk through betrayal and death unoffended just like the Jesus ,Steven, Peter and so many others Rev 14:12 the saints are the church. Jesus told us the key to seeing corectly in Matt. 25 the wise had oil in jars ( the anointing perchased in prayer that is able to teach us all things)( 1 John 2:26-270 or salve so we can see Rev. 3:18) Bible prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes . The Earth is crying out in birth pains for the sons of God to be revealed