The Desperate Need for Power

There are two stories in Luke 8, that in spite of trying to move on from, more and more application keeps bringing me back. The stories . . . the demon possessed man and the woman with the issue of blood.

In both stories, each had been in their situations for a long time, and neither they nor anyone else had been able to bring about the help or change that was needed.

Luke points out that the demon possessed man was ‘driven by the demon into solitary places’. I thought it was interesting after he had pointed out several times before that Jesus often withdrew to solitary places to pray. It occurred to me that God draws us to solitary places for our strength while Satan drives us into them for our destruction.

In regard to the woman with the issue of blood, Luke points out that the crowds were pressing against Jesus so much that they were about to ‘crush him’; which would mean they were touching Him. But when she touched Him, power went out from Him. I have been wrestling with this question for weeks, ‘Is my pressing through to touch Him causing power to go out from Him’?

There are things in each of our lives that neither we nor anyone else has been able to change. Whether with ourselves personally, our spouse, or a family member or friend, there are some things that only He can change. The question I keep asking myself is this, ‘Should I not be pressing through to bring about that change?’, and if I am not, ‘Am I just part of the crowd?’

Have we sold the Lord short in what He is able to do? Have we come to believe that He no longer intends to exorcise His power? In the absence of this power, has the church fallen back on reform and put Christianity’s stamp on it? Isn’t that still just reform?

Jesus did not work with the demon possessed man for 3 years; He healed him. Immediately he was in his right mind. He didn’t tell the woman with the issue of blood which doctor to go see; He healed her.

I have lately been continually reminded of situation after situation that is helpless without the touch of God’s power. I am challenged by these 2 stories and motivated by the one’s before me to become one through which His power can flow.

Whilst there is nothing wrong with wanting God's power, there was a scripture that came to mind whilst reading this.

Luke 15v7, "I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance."

God's power can flow through us, but God is also a jealous God.

We should want Him more than His power, which on doubt you want and realise. But don't mistake the gifts for the Giver.

Also, as we know, Jesus tells us in Matthew 7 concerning those who prophesied, cast out demons and did wonders in His name, yet He said He never knew them.

But God does know the thoughts and intents of the heart, so we know we can't pull the wool over His eyes.

Take care.

I have lately been continually reminded of situation after situation that is helpless without the touch of God’s power.

Amen. I pray much about this. We are in deep need of "the horn of salvation," the strength, the power of salvation. Not just in word but in power. The kingdom of God-- the manifestation of the Throne of God and of Christ-- is not in word but in power.

Those two passages from Luke 8 are very convicting.

In my pursuit of God, I am seeing the role power played in the early church. In my 5 years of 'extreme makeover', I am taking a fresh look at many things I used to just blow by. In these 5 years, I have wrestled many things out with God and in each case there is always something that stirs in me an unrest - something that doesn't make sense - something that doesn't add up. This issue of power, or the lack of it, is another one of those wrestling issues that I am in the middle of. I didn't intiate it, but it is there and I can't leave it until I am at peace with it.

I didn't go looking for this, but Luke 9:1,2 is there. I am not a fanatic but it says what it says. How do I interpret it? What does it mean to me today? What does it mean to the all of us today? Is it extreme thinking or does it just seem extreme because it is so far away from the norm of today?

Here's the verse. If it interest you to comment, if you have had similar thoughts and wrestled them out ahead of me, I would appreciate hearing your conclusions. Four things are mentioned there, but for the most part (understanding that there may be some exceptions) we only do one of them today.

Luke 9:1-3
1 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases, 2 and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.
NIV

It is true, that most Christians recoil at the very idea of driving out demons and curing diseases. Probably, and partly, because of the abuse of this ministry at the hands of those known as 'faith healers', not to mention cessationist.

However, the scripture does say what it says, irrespective of our beliefs or bias.

Sadly, with 'christianity' being what it is today, it is almost as though we have to start from scratch, to walk before we can run, as it were.

That which God can do through us, will not be, until we are what God would have us to be.

Our strong attachment to this world does hinder the work of God.

It does.

And, do we have conviction about that? Little, if any.

But brother, do seek God concerning this. It is not on your heart for nothing.

God bless.

In my pursuit of God, I am seeing the role power played in the early church. In my 5 years of 'extreme makeover', I am taking a fresh look at many things I used to just blow by. In these 5 years, I have wrestled many things out with God and in each case there is always something that stirs in me an unrest - something that doesn't make sense - something that doesn't add up. This issue of power, or the lack of it, is another one of those wrestling issues that I am in the middle of. I didn't intiate it, but it is there and I can't leave it until I am at peace with it.

You see there can be no power without the cross in our lives. We really don't live a crucified life, you know the sermon on the mount. We don't walk as He walked, so we don't walk in the same degree of power. We are called to do greater works than He did because of sheer numbers of Holy Ghost filled people.

I am just coming out the other side. I know that we can walk in this anointing all our days, but we haven't walked a crucified life all our days. It is time to return to taking the lowest place and humbling ourselves under His might hand that He might receive all the glory

You can read George Warnock's books free online atL\\:[url=http://www.georgewarnock.com/index.html]George Warnock Books[/url]And I am sure you can find a link to read Bonhoeffer's book as well.

I started reading at the top of Warnock's list so it would build on each other, which it did. I have so much hope restored to me at this time. I am rejoicing in the fact God can still teach me after all these years. Hallelujah.

I believe I too am just beginning to come out on the other side and believe also that He has not lead me for nothing. And speaking of fizzeling, I did much of that in my first 30 years. This time around He is making it more difficult to come by. One is not as likely to fizzle when they have had to fight and claw there way out of a hole. And in light of how much I have fought and clawed, I sure don't want to stop short. Before, I was not settled enough in my beliefs and was easily stopped. It is different this time around.

I visited a church from yesteryear this morning. They sang a song I hadn't heard for a long time. 'I will not be denied' Cool to hear again.

Thanks for each of your comments.

God bless you for starting this thread.
I too have been made painfully aware of my lack of His power.
For example, a lady came into our service a few months ago who was being tormented by the devil.
It was obvious to me that i didn't have what it took to bring her to a place of freedom the way the Scriptures in the OP describe. I don't think i will ever forget it.

Mercifully, the Lord is leading me to higher ground and may it please Him, my testimony will be different.

Four things are mentioned there, but for the most part (understanding that there may be some exceptions) we only do one of them today.

MJones, I think the one you say we are doing today is preaching the kingdom of God.

But in view of the fact we have so little of the other three you have to wonder to what extent we are even preaching the kingdom of God.

"For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power" (1 Cor. 4.20)

To merely preach ABOUT the kingdom of God is not the Gospel of the Kingdom. The true Gospel of the Kingdom, the true preaching of the Kingdom of God, is the actual going forth of, and manifestation of, the Kingdom of God. In POWER. How much of that do we have?

hi, 2 cases where no faith is involved .the lady with the issue of blood had spent every dime she had on doctors and if you gave her another 100 she probably would have been at that new clinic...she was desparate as was the demoniac.Jesus answers the call of desparate people.my question to the youth of today is...if you see someone in a desparate or even demonic situation why not be moved with compassion and pray boldly for that person and put your relationship with Jesus to a pubic test..He will move on the situation with power SOMETIME...more than if you dont act at all and complain about the weak church... if He moved often in this way in your life it would destroy you and you would be on TV with YOUR world wide ministry.jimp

I started to get stirred up about 2 1/2 years ago about the Holy Spirit, having been baptised in the Holy Spirit about 32 years ago. I started to think why aren't we different from other people, I have been on a journey trying to work things through.
I was reading Acts 4:30-31
"Stretch out your hand to heal and perform miraculous signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."
31After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly".
If that was the norm back then, what about now. It is Jesus who stretches out His hand to heal & perform miraculous signs, is it because we don't really believe that Jesus is the same yesterday, today & forever.
I have just come from visiting a friend in the mental ward at the local hospital & I think how many of those people are in there becuase of demon possession?? I know that in my own strength I can do nothing, it can only be as the Holy Spirit works through me.
In the bible the preaching of the Word was always accompanied by signs & wonders.
My question is what has happened???

"My question is what has happened???"

Mine too.

~ What has happened? ~

A lack of compassion even in the Christian circles is my humble opinion of what has happened. My friends and I have a jail ministry and we have been privileged to see the Lord work a few “wonder working” signs in the women’s lives and in their bodies! I will humbly share what happened to us for us to start praying, at the beginning we would take prayer requests and we noticed a common denominator... they didn’t get their medicine as they were supposed to and come to find out that one 200 mg Tylenol costs an inmate $5.00, just one!

Well, another Holy Spirit filled woman and I began talking about praying for the sick. So we would end 15-30 minutes early and tell them, “we will lay hands on and pray for anyone but if there is any sick among you, we pray for those first.” At first, they didn’t know what we wanted to do to them! LOL But slowly, one by one they would come up and now a year and a half later, it is awesome what God has done in those women’s lives! I am humbled to walk in there and be able to minister to them in anyway the Lord allows me to.

But I digress, the point I wanted to make was... Christians can lay hands on anyone the Bible says to “lay hands on the sick” but the one thing that I read in the Scriptures that “motivates” healing is: compassion. We don’t see much compassion anymore.

But when he saw the multitudes, he was MOVED WITH COMPASSION on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd. Matt 9.36, Matt 14.14

And Jesus, MOVED WITH COMPASSION, put forth his hand, and touched him, and saith unto him, I will; be thou clean. Mark 1.41, 6.34

So Jesus HAD COMPASSION on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him. Matt 20.34

Prior to all the incidents Lysa diligently listed, our Lord was filled with the Holy Ghost power[sorry, i'm kinda old-school].

When the Lord ascended, He instructed the disciples to wait until they were endued with power from on high....then they would be His witness.

My humble opinion is that we have not been endued with power from on high [at least, i haven't] and we're trying to be His witnesses.

There is definitely a need for both - power and compassion - and definitely room for more of both in me.

Somebody mentioned the aspect of the kingdom and I believe there is something to that. I hope someone does not hang me on a technicality if don't have this exactly right, but I think Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God on earth. And if you think about it, that is what He did. Sickness is not a part of the Kingdom of God. He expelled it when He was presented with it. Satan is not part of the Kingdom of God. He expelled him when he was present. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I am convinced there is a power available. I catch glimpses of it at times to indicate there is more. I was struck in Luke 10 the other day by a statement, which was Jesus' response when the 72 commented that the demons submitted to them. Jesus, as if to say, 'that's really nothing', "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven". Satan was expelled from God's Kingdom. He has no place in it. Jesus was there to see him fall. He knows he has no power or place in God's Kingdom.

And since Jesus came to establish it, He simply and effortlessly reminds Satan that he is not permitted to stay. He doesn't huff and puff. It was settled a long time ago. He was there. He saw him fall. I believe there is power in that if we can truly get our head around it. We too need to see Satan fall, to be convinced as Jesus was that he really has no power. I think we have made the mistake of approaching it more as beggers when maybe we should be approaching more as commanders.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Is it possible that we have lost sight of this concept of the Kingdom of God and replaced it with the kingdom of church/denomination/man and this is why we have so little power? Why would God give us power to promote ourselves or our denomination? Maybe when we get a clear glimpse that it is God's Kingdom that we are working for, then we will experience more power! Thank you for this encouraging thread.

Wow Phanetheus, Blessed be the name of the Lord!
We [all of us, the body of Christ] need to unlearn some things and [re]learn some.

Edited: After praying more I took down my post I feel unsettled with what I had written so need more time to pray and reflect on this...

In the spirit of my original post, I add these additional thoughts that come as I read through the gospel of Luke.

Luke 9:1,2 When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out demons and to cure diseases, and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

Power and authority were given for four things. One was preaching and the other three involved some form of healing.

The question I am wrestling through is this: Has He taken back that authority or does He wait on us to take hold of it? Are we missing something by not taking hold of it?

I have the same thoughts in my heart. I have searched the word to see why we do not walk in all God has called us to.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

I believe the real problem is that we do not live crucified lives. Our lives are still our own. If we forsake all and only do the will of the Father we will walk in the same anointing of the Holy Spirit that Jesus did.

Phl 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

When we finally yield our lives, stuff, home, cars, ipods, clothes, children, appetites, everything to Him, we will also walk as He did, because that is what characterized His life.

Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Jesus did only what the Father was doing, only went where the Father sent Him.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

When we finally forsake all and follow Him we will see the anointing manifest in our lives, not for ourselves, but to:

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

When we relinquish self ownership we will walk in all He has called us to, and not before. We want to choose what areas we give to Him. Where will we live, I don't like Detroit, so I won't live there. How much of my money really belongs to God 10% or all of it? I can't give up that relationship, God couldn't mean that, could He? I need to be politically correct or I might suffer persecution, God doesn't want me to suffer, does He? How about food, we stuff ourselves with every delight, but Paul was in fastings often. Even our appetites should be subject to God's will. The smallest things are important to the Lord, because it is the little things that cause us to be ineffective in the world around us.

This is why many poor places around the globe are experiencing true revival and power. They have given it all to Jesus.

I would suggest you watch this video by Dr. Owuor called "The state of the church".

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+state+of+the+church+owuor&search_type=]Dr. Owuor

I agree that we are not to seek after power. We are to make Jesus central in all our thinking. Power does come from that connection because He flows through us the same as did with the early apostles and believers like Stephen. Jesus came to heal, deliver and save and we are His arms extended to the world, if we take up our cross daily and follow Him. It is time to understand the the things of this world are passing away and if we want to be a part of this great ingathering we need to live according the sermon on the mount and repent for our withholding a part as Ananias and Saphira did. We really only give the stuff that doesn't inconvenience us, or make us short, or cause us to do things we naturally don't like.

It no longer matters what we like. What is God's will in everything. You think Jesus liked to go to the cross as far as His natural aptitude is concerned? No He asked for that cup to be removed if possible. But He drank it because it was the Father's will.

I am convinced that God is raising up an end-time remnant that will have dove's eyes. They can only focus on Jesus. They only care about doing the Father's will even if their friends and family think they are nuts. They will turn this world up-side-down. They will be dead men walking.

Ongoing thoughts from the writings of Luke.

“Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed.”

There are quite a few references in the Bible to the ‘hand’ of God. There are some to His ‘mighty hand’ and even some of the ‘strong arm’ of God. But this demon Jesus drove out by “the finger of God”. God’s strong arm or mighty hand was not needed. His finger is all that is needed to drive Satan out. We have been duped here.

Afterwards Jesus tells the story of a strong man that kept a good watch over his home. He had successfully driven a demon or two out himself. But this demon went and found other demons and came back and overpowered him. His condition then becomes worse. By the time Jesus finds him, he is deaf.

There is a lot of strength in all this. There is a strong man who is attacked and overpowered by demons that are driven out by the finger of God. The strong man had fought. He had armor. He had had success with it. But when the odds were stacked against him, his armor was not enough. His captor takes it. He is left defenseless.

Sometimes, when the enemy bears down, a person may find their armor is just not enough. A little outside help could go a long way to help someone stand. Without it, they may simply be overpowered. I am aware of a few who are struggling. Some on the front end of a battle who are struggling not to be overpowered. Others more toward the back end who have all but been overpowered.

When Jesus saw this man who was deaf, he did not see him as one who was weak. He saw one who was strong that had been overpowered. He stopped to help him – to even the odds. Can we see those who are struggling as one who was strong until they were overpowered? Are we stopping to help even the odds? All it takes is ‘the finger of God’.

An excellent point regarding the apparent failure of our prayers to accomplish what we expect. God is Soverign. There is no man on earth who can counsel the Lord of Glory to act in a certain way. It is not the faith of the average Christian that availeth much. It is the prayer of a righteous man. That is, a man who humbles himself before the Most High God and does the Father's will. That man will often pray in the model of God's Character.

And I think such a righteous man would refrain from allowing himself to accept a television ministry.

By His Grace.

Goldminer wrote:
I believe the real problem is that we do not live crucified lives. Our lives are still our own. If we forsake all and only do the will of the Father we will walk in the same anointing of the Holy Spirit that Jesus did.

I believe you have hit the nail on the head. The church is in dire straits because no one has left it all for Jesus Christ (and this includes me). Personally (within my own sphere of influence), I have only known two people on this earth who had crucified lives and walked in the same anointing of the Holy Spirit that Jesus walked in and they have both gone on in faith believing others would step up to the plate.

I was blessed to have not only met them but to have been raised up under their ministry. I'm sure there are thousands of christians lying to themselves every day "thinking" they live a crucified life here in America but the proof is in the pudding! I say that because there were several in their ministry who thought they lived a crucified life! Me included - I mean, when you can''t even cast a bothersome twit of a devil out of your own life; how in the name of the Lord can you have enough faith to cast one out of someone else???? (huge grin)

Every time there is a storm somewhere or destruction, I think of the verse you quoted, Romans 8.19 - "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." Years ago, through prophesy, the Lord said, "the earth groans waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God."

Goldminer wrote: "Jesus did only what the Father was doing, only went where the Father sent Him... Well, [b]we are too busy doing "our will" for God[/b].

Thank you for the Godly reminder that I needed so much to hear...