How do you deal with the Jehovah witnesses

When they come to the door and are insisting you let them in and take their literature? I tried to be really friendly and polite with this older gentleman but he was so insisting that I read his watch tower tracts. I told him that I was a christian and I was not interested in reading his material but he would not let up. He said if I did not read his things I would not know what God is doing now in this day and kept on going. I tried several times to tell him that I follow the Lord and that I believe Jesus to be my Lord and Savior. He said that God was Jehovah and insisted I needed to know about him. Finally I just said as lovingly as I could that the only way to God was through His son Jesus and with that the man got angry and told me that if I did not want to read his things than it was at my own risk. I told him I hoped he had a nice day as he stomped off.

I feel like I handled it all wrong but he was really pushy and insisting made me feel really nervous and uncomfortable. I was home alone so I was not going to invite him into the house but I did try to talk to him politely on the front porch.

How does everyone here handle these kinds of situations.

God Bless
maryjane

It is a bit different for me, since I am male. If my wife was home alone, I would advise her to do the exact same thing that you did. Praise God that it seems like this guy didn't have much luck with folks in your area :-)

As a man, I always invite them in or talk to them where they are. I pull out my Bible, and I go through point by point with them until they get sick of me and leave. I always invite them back, but they never come.

I just speak truth over them. Try my best to love on them, and I am never harsh with them. They are greatly mislead and unsaved. In fact, I have an easier time talking to those who don't know Christ and act like it, then I do with those who act like they know Christ, yet don't. At least I expect the unsaved to act as such.

1 Corinthians 9:16 (NKJV)

"... Woe is me if I do not preach the gospel!"

1.In Jn 20:28, Thomas refers to Jesus in Greek as "Ho kyrios moy kai ho theos moy". This translates literally as "the Lord of me and THE God of me". Why does Jesus, in Jn 20:29, affirm Thomas for having come to this realization? If Jesus really wasn't the Lord and THE God of Thomas, why didn't Jesus correct him for making either a false assumption or a blasphemous statement?

2.If Christ will not have a visible return to earth, then how will he be seen by "ALL the tribes of the earth" (Mt 24:30) and by "EVERY eye" (Rev 1:7) when he returns?

3.If the Holy Spirit is God's impersonal active force, how could he: Be referred to as "he" and "him" in Jn 16:7-8 and Jn 16:13-14; Bear witness - Jn 15:26; Feel hurt - Isa 63:10; Be blasphemed against - Mk 3:29; Say things - Ezek 3:24, Acts 8:29, 10:19, 11:12, 21:11, Heb10:15-17, Rev 2:7; Desire - Gal 5:17; Be outraged - Heb 10:29; Search -1Cor 2:10; Comfort - Acts 9:31; Be loved - Rom 15:30 ; Be lied to and be God - Acts 5:3-4?

4.What is the meaning of Rev 14:9-11, which says, "... If anyone worships the wild beast ... he shall be tormented with fire and sulphur ... And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever ...". Where could "anyone" be "tormented ... forever and ever"?

5.If the name "Jehovah" is so important, then why does Acts 4:12 say, "There is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name [v10 Jesus Christ] under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved"? Would this not have been the logical place for God to have used the name "YHWH"?

The main thing to remember is, speak the truth in love. I have had some JW's stop by my house and they usually get turned off when you start quoting scripture to them and giving clear answers to their questions most leave after a while. They prey on people who do not know their bibles( not saying you don't dear friend :) just being general. So the first defense against heresy is truth devour the scriptures and meditate upon them let them dwell in you richly. there is also a good verse in John 17:5 christ said he had glory with God before the world began but in Isaiah 42:8 it says God shares his glory with none but himself. So what does this mean? when you ask questions do it with care and love. and also use the law on them to show them the exceeding sinfulness of sin and hopefully by Gods grace they will be pricked to the heart. JW's have a real works righteousness attitude when it comes to salvation all the tracks and door to door tactics the employ salve the conscience and give them assurance instead of trusting in christ alone. The law exposes sin and leads one to see the need for the God man Christ Jesus who is the sum total of the gospel. The Law is the hammer to crush the gospel the medicine to heal.

Soli Deo Gloria
Demetrius.

I knew a guy in college that used to go to Jehovah's Witness's meetings to get to know them on a basis where he could "witness" to them but it didn't work. I told him to be careful, I don't know where he is now.

Anyway, he told a group of us one day that they have a platform in the middle of the meeting hall with two chairs facing each other and one acts like the person answering the door and the other is "learning" to GET IN. This literally goes on the entire meeting time with people critiqing each other and what they did 'wrong' during last weeks visits.

Fuegodedios is right, "They prey on people who don't know their Bibles." They are on a mission, and it's not to love you or pray for you or help you; they are on a mission to convert you, period. This sounds cold and callous but they are like stray dogs, as long as you talk to them and invite them in, they will keep coming back. It's entirely up to you.

Personally, I do not let them in. They are there to beat down your defenses and years ago I thought if I told them, "I'll give you 15 minutes if you give me 15 minutes" but then they wanted to argue about who goes first because of course, they wanted to go last (formulating their whole argument while you talked). So I just told them (in love and with a smile), that I speak in tongues and if they want to come in I'll pray with them! Thankfully, no one comes to my house anymore!!

Lisa is right. They do prey on those who are weak in the word. I had a very humorous encounter. I was in the back yard studying the word when two elders and a young girl apparently learning to be a witness showed up at the door. My wife told them I would love to talk to them and sent them around back. As they walked up and saw me reading the Bible, they made a comment about my being in the "good book". They then asked me some question about Jesus. Without even thinking about what I was saying, I replied, "Well of course, He was God you know." The reaction was to puff up, huff around a bit looking for words, and say, "Well we could discuss that some time.", and hurriedly usher this young girl out of my yard. I felt later that I should have warned that young lady that she did not know what she was getting herself into. I had unintentionally brought out the "big gun" fighting words by saying that Jesus was God.

Those who are strong in the Word and know their Bible can ask the witnesses to explain their doctrines. Listen closely, and then simply ask them questions as though you don't know. "So what does this scripture mean then", pointing to a verse that obviously refutes their point of doctrine. It is never about winning an argument with a Witness, but rather about helping them to see that there may be error in their belief. Often just asking them questions about scriptures that refute their doctrine will cause them to begin thinking. Trying to argue and convince is rarely if ever successful.

Travis

I have had so many JWs come to our door...

We had Watchman's Fellowship come into our community and they presented a seminar on how to deal with cults, presenting their main doctrinal points. Having talked with a lot of them plus studying Ted Denchers lit on JW's their material made a lot of sense.

What does not work is to give them lit from an organization that works to inform JW's their error.

I have one good story. A very nice young, handsome Hispanic fellow came alone to our door. We got to talking but he was very different: he was NOT confrontational. He was thoughtful. I felt in my spirit that somehow the LORD was working with him and I was pleased with the conversation. I never saw him since, nor do I know whatever happened with him.

My point? If you know doctrine and know how to listen to the Holy Spirit you can talk. But do not go into a confrontational mode nor enter into a debate. If you want to read a book that is very helpful this one is it: "Apostles of Denial" by Edmond Charles Gruss. I do not know whether it is still available. You may have to go to www.bookfinders.com to find a copy.

Today when JWs come to our door we have no discussion to speak of. We have a small plaque on our front door with a Bible verse on it. This seems to deter any aggressive discussions. Or, maybe they have learned they are wasting their time with me...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Awesome testimony, Gregg.

I love it!

ginnyrose

Thanks everyone for sharing with me on this. I think I was so taken aback by this older gentleman because he was so insistent and so pushy. I told my husband it did not matter how polite I tried to be or how I told him I was not interested in reading his literature he would not give up. I don't think he was even really listening to me he was just so wanting to push his agenda. I often wonder about things like this after they happen, I wonder if I came across as being rude because I was uncomfortable being home alone. I wonder if I should have said things differently or handle them better??? Sometimes I feel guilty because I know that I am not very good when it comes to talking with people that I don't know. Reading through every ones posts on their experience tells me that he probably was pretty typical of the JW that go around from door to door and that is why he got so offended when I told him that I was not interested in his tracts.

I do try to share my love for the Lord and about my walk with the Lord Jesus with others but I am not very good at debating, when people begin arguing I tend to get uncomfortable.

Well anyway thanks for sharing.

God Bless
mj

My one and only experience with JW was when I was a young, my mom was taking a nap and I was just hanging out when a older woman and a very young girl guessing grandmother and grand daughter came to the door. I didn't know ANYTHING about JW at the time nor their teachings I went to tell my mom she told me not to answer the door but they were pretty presistant on knocking since they could see I was home. I answered the door and they showed me a bible verse told me a little bit about "god" and handed me some reading material. They were very polite and respectful probably because I was little and ignorant but they never came back. When I came back inside from talking with them my mom said "those are JW they don't teach good things" I said okay and threw away the literature. Since then I really haven't ran into anyone and can't say I really know the flaw in their doctrine other than denying Christ Jesus and I would have to turn to 1 John 2:22 "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son."

Maybe someone could get me up to date on the dangers of what they actually teach. It would be much appreciated. :)

God Bless,
Matthew

Hum that is interesting thanks for posting helped a bunch, I have already started to think of many scriptures that would blow some pretty big holes in their theology with just what you have posted :) Everything must be done in love. Something that we can do is just what everyone is saying to do ask them how they would intrepret certian scriptures and let the Holy Spirit open up their eyes to the Love of Jesus Christ. Ultimately it has to be God to do this if its something else it generally either won't be geniune or lasting.

God Bless,
Matthew

Where I worked about 20 years ago, several of us took breaks at the same time (and I worked with a JW), so I started asking him what they believed, I don't remember much, except this one time when we were walking back to work and he said, "Do you know how many mistakes are in the King James Version of the Bible????"

Shaking my head no, he continued with, "1500!!! 1500 mistakes!!" This just flew out of my mouth, "And I bet I believe every one of them!" And laughed and he was like, "Nooooo, it's not funny!" I just patted him on the shoulder, smiling and said, "Don, it will be alright. Maybe it's not me who's deceived," he looked at me weird and walked away. I heard his life fell apart a few years after that. I don't know how he is now.

(edited for clarity)

Be persistant and simply say, "I know you are searching for the truth... I too, am seeking truth... let's bow in prayer and seek Jehovah's guidance." My experience is that they will RUN away!!! They do NOT want you to lead them in ANY prayer.

My husband and I have had a fair bit of contact with the JW's. We like to take two tactics. Firstly, We like to tell them that we have the same problem with them that I have with most regular churches, that they don't teach people radical self-sacrifice that Jesus spoke of. We then bring out Matt 25 about the sheep and the goats and point out how their church doesn't teach people that they need to serve the least of the brothers of Christ with zeal. There are many other similar passages (like 1 John 3:16-18) but this one allows you to discuss the judgement of Christ.

We've found that the JW's really squirm over this because it's not something that they're trained in refuting. It also knocks the pedestal out from under the Watchtower Society.

Another tactic that we use is to refute their use of the New World Translation. They all assume that their translation is trustworthy but it can easily be shown that they should question it. We like to show them that the WT society has made several changes over the years and point out that if they can make these changes why should they be trusted not to make fundamental changes again. If their pope has been proven fallible once then their pope is still fallible today. Here is one of their changes:

"But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels worship him." Heb 1:6 1961 NWT

"But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obeisance to him" Heb 1:6 current NWT

The JW's don't consider obeisance to be worship. Since they believe that Jesus is not God they have changed many verse that call people to worship Jesus to read as obeisance instead. We point out that if the 1966 NWT actually commanded people to worship Jesus and that that was a mistake then perhaps there are some other huge errors in their translation (such as John 1:1!).

One thing that I think really helps is to realise that they are not fundamentally any different than lukewarm Christians of any stripe. They are simple ignorant of the demands and God and his fundamental character.

God's blessings to you and all your future interactions with the JW's.

MaryJane,

This is a very edifying thread AND so very interesting to hear other people's testimonies. (But I had to laugh at Lysa's most recent one about believing all 1500 errors in the KJV...her answer was right on! Loved it!)

Anyhow...what I wanted to say is this - and I do not think anyone mentioned it, if they did I missed it.

When speaking with a JW, or likely any one caught in a cult, refrain from using any theological terms because they give different meanings to them then what evangelicals do. You may be talking for a long time, using theological terms and think you are on the same page when you are not. You agree and still in your spirit feel something is not quite right. To remedy this problem use two dozen words - if needed - to describe a concept instead of one - this will prevent confusion on your part. Words like incarnation, trinity should not be used. They do not appear in the Bible although the concepts are there. So just discuss the concepts in clear, simple language - so simple a child can understand - so they understand what you mean.

God bless you as you share with them...

ginnyrose

EDITED for clarification

Brother, that was so encouraging.

You are right Brothertom. The chief goal is the salvation of souls, not the vindication of doctrine through debate. It was the same with the young lady accompanied by the eldership who came to my house. I unwittingly stepped directly into the area of Jesus being God, although in a friendly way, and they were really quick to run from my back yard with this new convert in tow. They were hardened and wold have been the swine that I cast my pearls before, but she on the other hand...I wish I had been more prepared to share something that could have impacted her in a powerful way. Something that comes straight from the hear of the love of God for that person and manifesting the power of the Holy Spirit in its delivery. We all need to be prepared to give an answer.

Glad to see a post on this. I have had some recent encounters with JW's. Even today I had an hour dialogue with a husband and wife team. Last week they gave me the book 'What does the bible really teach?'.

I did push them a bit on the nature of God and tey did come out and say that Jesus is created and said the Trinity is not true. I kept the conversation simple and questioned them on alot of things. They said they loved talking to me because of my bible knowledge. I really think they want the truth.

They both told me they have been JW's for 30 yrs. The lady was Catholic and then she said she was born again as the result of a friend of hers who was in the hospital. She got divorced and found the JW's. I want to ask her more details on that because I want more background. She is very excited about bible study.

They talked about the Kingdom and I told her they are pulling the donkey ahead of the cart on that. Meaning, in order to get to this kingdom..........sin doesn't get you there.........you need that bridge which is Jesus. THe book amplifies the name Jehovah but not Jesus and that is because Jesus is created and he is not Jehovah to them.

When we ended they asked me to read 1 cor 15 from halfway down. I told them I would read the entire chapter in context. I asked them to read Hebrews 1 in reference to Jesus relation to the Angels. I don't know what the NWT looks like and I imagine it to is translated wrong?

I also left them asking them to consider what does the OT phrase 'The Lord God is ONe'.

They are a fun couple to talk to but their lingo is very deceptive. I don't feel like I am a qualified bible teacher but I have had many people tell me I have alot of knowledge and some have said they hear the Holy Spirit in me and I take that with joy.

A couple of podcasts have pushed me more into the scriptures as well to take everything in context and when one verse is mentioned to make sure that verse is not taken out of context and used for something else that it is not meant for. This happens in alot of churches today.

John

Lovemeekhope

This is one of those facts which is fascinating but as you said doesn't really add much to the conversation. Sad as that seems.

My plan for our next meeting is to ask this lady when did she drop or exchanged from being a Christian to when she became a JW? That is for my own personal knowledge because I want to know the transition........... what sucked her in.

Being that she asked me to read 1 cor 15, the latter half I plan to use v 1-4 in conjunction with Isaiah 44:6 comparing it to Rev. 1:8 and then v. 17-18.

Their trick will be to go to Rev. 3:14 referring to Jesus being the beginning of God's creation. The trick is to not get side tracked by that because 'beginning'........what does that mean? vs. scripture saying Jehovah died and rose again.
I will be praying this week over this and for God's to lead me in this conversation and do it with love but also firmness in scripture. It really is the first time I have every spoke with a JW and not felt nervous at all. Very laid back listening intently and responding with questions.

I simply start by asking, "What is your chief goal with me today? I mean, what makes you a success with me today? Do I say a prayer? Do I go to your building on Sunday? Do I outreach a message void of hope? What make your coming to me today a success?" I start off in this manner most of the time, of course, in genuine humility and concern for those I am talking to. Then I take it from there. Much of the time they are very confused and never have an answer. That is what I like to show them, they have not answer nor hope, but I have the living hope inside of me and I must share it with humility, compassion, and love.

Blessings, Jeremy

I wonder if I should ask them those questions. She stated to me in the first talk that she would like to talk to me more about the Kingdom of God especially since she was impressed that I had put 'alot of thought' into these things. Funny!

I did notice that she doesn't have any highlights in her bible but then again I don't highlight mine either.

Essentially, they do not believe that God is wrathful nor will send anyone to hell. They also do not believe in hell. So, when you ask your questions, keep this in the back of your mind. You will eventually have to go there.

Blessings,
bro jer

Yes, I am aware of the hell issue. I think the Nature of God is the important factor. Without understanding the nature of God the doctrine of hell is nothing.

DEADn,

I would be interested too, in her reasons for leaving the Catholic Church.

I am always reminded of 2 Thess 2.10-11...
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they RECEIVED NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

If you can look for those instances in her life and bring truth to it. You may have a hand in delivering her from the strong delusion that she has been sent.

Here is a sermon that I believe is on that topic (not sure as I'm in a hurry):
Zac Poonen - LOvers of Truth
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4268&commentView=itemComments

Just noticed this resurrected thread..and read Lysa's post...

Lysa, I love your reply to this JW. It is packed with wisdom without being arrogant.

Hi
What do you do with JW?
I just witnessed to a couple who came to my door and I noticed that they didnt like that I could explain where "Paradise" was.And sure enough its one of there hang ups I found out afterwards.God used it to open their eyes a little.
On lightier note in the words of one man:
Dont worry about making mistakes because you know that one day they'l be back knocking on your door!
Yours Staff

I have always said that if a JW comes to your door and you really don't want to deal with them then either don't answer the door or give them your testimony. When I asked the lady about her background she told me that when she became JW she came to know the truth. She said it in a generic way with a smile on her face. I plan to ask specifics next time.

Every JW that has come out has had various things happen to them that causes them to come out. It isn't one size fits all. All I have done is ask questions and listened to their answers. I think a major key to it all is to stay steadfast and don't allow them to move across scriptures if they don't like what you presented.

i.e. My plan is to go to Rev. chapter 1 and then 1 cor 15 because they compliment each other. I have a NWT and it is a near mirror to the NKJ bible I have. I know they will go to Rev 3:14 after that because I also know my goal is to get them to answer my examples first. My whole goal is to get them to think about the text.

Plus, I am having some fun in this because it causes me to do more bible study and I get to talk to cultists about it and share truth with them.

btw, I know a pastor who hates JW's. Says they are deceivers and wants them off their property. He gave me 1 John as text and ask me how do I deal with that? I deal with it just as I deal with John 3:16. 1 John......if taken to its pinnacle could suggest that ministries dedicated to reaching out to the cults are in the wrong? He never responded. I think it is because he has a Calvinist way of thinking. I am beginning to understand that thinking and some personalities take that to a cult like level of being very close minded.

In my internet roaming I found this website. It is a good read on JW's

http://www.towerwatch.com/

I was not able to meet with the JW couple this weekend but I did leave a note as to when I would be home. They left a leaflet with me titled 'You can be close to God'. The title should cause any Christian to have a raised eyebrow. Apparently the women's husband or partner was sick. Too bad they were not Christian Science people. I would ask how is it possible since you don't believe in Sickness?

Anyway, she left a note on this thing asking me to read James 4:18 with the note "You probably know it'

Seems to me that combing through their literature is helping me to study the bible more and even focus on those verse. which can be perverted easily if one is not careful. Keeping scripture in context as well as comparing scripture is a key to understanding. It is a reason why many people in the church get deceived. They don't know the Word enough.

JW's seemed to be filled with alot of ex Christians and/or people looking for answers. Kind of like going to a psychic.

I want to share something that I believe God revealed to me this morning and somehow I was too dumb to see it. Someone talked to me about 'stupid spirits' to which I didn't agree with but then I was reminded of a passage in mark about a 'deaf and mute' spirit so these things do exist and to what extent who knows. Yet something I also noticed something in the passage that blew me away that Christians may take for granted and

mark 9
25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. "You deaf and mute spirit,” he said, "I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.”

'I command you' is the key thing for an angel would never do such a thing. An angel can only say 'The Lord rebuke you'. Doesn't this verse testify to His authority and that Jesus is God by His sheer authority?

I had another visitation with the JW's this morning. I made the error is getting into a 10 minute conversation on the 144,000. They believe they are the annointed classs......spiritual Israel though they could not prove to me it was spiritual Israel when I asked them. They gave me and and stupid me......should have told them to read to the end. They stopped at 'Rejected me'

Isaiah 30

12Therefore thus says the Holy One of Israel, "Since you have rejected this word And have put your trust in oppression and guile, and have relied on them,

And

Matt 23

37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”

In any case They gave me my paper back that I left form them complete with alot of notations so it shows that she went through it. Something I didn't realize is in the KJV there is rarely a reference to things such as Jehovah Nissi. Jireh, Ralpha as titles and she referenced this. Why is that?

Anyway, before they left I asked them what is the Gospel according to JW's. They paused and appeared stumped and fumbled around asking for a specific reference. I asked if the 'Kingdom' was their gospel. They agreed. I took them to 1 Cor 15 and said Paul preached this. They said yes that is the kingdom. I asked ' where do you see kingdom' here. They said the 'The Gospel'. I said the 'Gospel' is Jesus resurrection. They said they believe that. I asked why is it not preached then instead of the Kingdom? They went in circles and I knew I had to stay steadfast with them on it and only push them so far and stop but continue it in the future.

The lady told me that a reason why she went from born to JW is because they taught her the true nature of God and that God was not a Trinity and that Trinitarians like to use certain scriptures of Jesus and the Father being one but that doesn't mean they are the same. I let that go for now.

I will see them in 2 weeks. She had 3 men in her company but only 1 with her at the door. And older guy, probably an elder and I was amused at this. Her husband was there but at the van. She eventually got low glucose and had to go to the van to get water so it was me and this guy. I Stayed focused on questions and not in absolutes so as not to drive them away.

What did I Learn from this experience? Because of the subtlness of their dialogue I have to stay to 1-2 topics regardless of what direction they go. I also have to be firm and not allow myself to get into meaningless conversation in regards to scripture. Staying on important topics while asking questions and forcing them to think about it is the primary key as I see it.

These notes should prove interesting to see what she says in reference to my remarks.

DEADn wrote:
JW's seemed to be filled with alot of ex Christians and/or people looking for answers. Kind of like going to a psychic.

For some reason they began not believing God on issues and sadly, this is one of the delusions that God causes them to believe. And seeing people and how they left Christianity, this explains a lot.

You really need to pray about this woman because if God truly sent her and her husband this delusion then you are contending with Him, not them.

God bless,
Lisa

I know there are many ex christians in it and I attribute that to 2 Thess 2.10b-11, "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:"

For some reason they began not believing God on issues and sadly, this is one of the delusions that God causes them to believe. And seeing people and how they left Christianity, this explains a lot.

You really need to pray about this woman because if God truly sent her and her husband this delusion then you are contending with Him, not them.

I found this odd at first and then I had to juggle it within my mind to understand its significance. It is hard to swallow that God would send her this strong delusion but then 2 Thess does spell this out. It feels like a jagged edged pill because I also know of many people who have come out of the JW's and have become Christians.

As you said....... if God sent them this delusion then I am contending with Him and not them and I can run a danger of falling into that same trap if I am not discerning enough myself.

My time with the Jehovah's Witnesses ended this past weekend. They visited me every other weekend. I received a note from them that they would not longer be coming as they were not making much progress in telling me about God's Kingdom. I simply asked too many questions and 'debate' on words such as Alpha and Omega, First and the Last.

I learned ALOT through this experience with them. I learned the word play they like to use to get you to think they believe certain things when they really don't. Also got them to tell me Jesus was Michael the archangel and I never asked about it but they volunteered it in conversation.

I had planned to ask them if Jesus was enough as a Jehovah's Witness and then point them to Ephesians 2 and Romans 10. It preaches the very things that the Jehovah's Witnesses do not preach. It even speaks to Israel's redemption because they believe they are spiritual Israel. They told me this as well.

I wrote a blog about my last experience with them. I wish I could publish the note they left me. It is on an index card but front and back. I have learned alot from talking with them and interacting on another board with some individuals who are ex JW's. I want to continue with this for it has helped me to go deeper into the bible in the process.

John

What I do when they come is that I ask (if possible) them something like how they how they came to the Lord and how they received the Spirit.

If they got know answer, then I tell them if they never were lost and came as a sinner to Christ, they should repent now and believe. If they have 'come' to Christ, but not the Spirit (they believe that only the 144.000 have the Spirit I heared one of them say) then they are lost according to romans chapter 8.

If they have an answer I tell them how I got saved, how great the Lord is for my soul and how beautifull His love is over me.

If they still want to talk I use there own 'bible' (I got it at home) and talk or about death/eternal destruction or about Jezus Christ as God. I got some notes that I wrote down in there bible and so I go to those points. I don't have them with me now, but...

about hell: they believe that there is a place where people get, but it's a place of death (so you die and then it's over). The point that I came up with a couple of weeks ago from there own bible to show what it means to be dead. Ephesians 2 says that we were dead in sins and that I means seperation (2 Thes 1:9-10) and therefore Jesus died for both so we can live (that is: knowing God for eternity, forgiven of sins, etc. So I would go for that.. just showing that dead isn't "being destroyed" but remaining as you are. Then pointing out what the meaning is of 'eternal'. If you combine that you got: eternal death = you remain in your sins and being separated from God forever.

If they got that far, then you can talk (I think) about the punishment part if God allows you. But maybe it isn't wise, because if they accept what you said so far, they have to renounce JW-teaching and that's for me the first goal.

About Jesus Christ as God:
There are some points.

1) God says He doesn't share His glory with any man. If they say it's true what you said, then go to john 5 (in there bible) and see for verse 22-23 that says that God the Father honor the Son in the same way as the Father. That is sharing His glory.
2) They will come with the vers "Why do you call me good? No-one is good, except for God" (Luke 18:19). They try to use it to say that Jesus says He isn't God. Then ask them the question: "Is Jesus Good?" If they say no, then ask them how a imperfect sacrifice for sins can take away sin. How can Jesus be called righteous if He isn't good? Stay asking questions like those until they give in and say that He is good somehow. Then go to the vers and just point out that He doesn't say that He isn't good or He isn't God. The opposite is true. He says (I believe) that He is good and God.

Just some thought.. maybe it helps some of you.

wijnand

I appreciate your input. I only my made last post to inform everyone of this incident. I have learned a great deal, in the past few months, about JW's. Asking questions without telling them they are wrong is the way to do the conversation. Getting them to think is the key to it all and doing it in certain areas. Either about the Watchtower or the resurrection of what salvation is.

You learned a lot from the JW'S? So did I. Fine education, actually, but I still groan inwardly if I see them coming. Even though they are around here they must have labeled our place a "goat".

Sandra

by ginnyrose on 2015/2/17 16:46:44

You learned a lot from the JW'S? So did I. Fine education, actually, but I still groan inwardly if I see them coming. Even though they are around here they must have labeled our place a "goat".

Sandra

When I say I learned alot I refer to what I learned as I spoke to them. The average person sees individuals annoying them about God and the kingdom of God while giving them literature if they accept it. If someone pushes them a bit they will whip out their bibles and give scriptures , immediately, giving the smoke screen that they know their bibles. Not so.

What I learned is that the JW's know only certain scriptures and abide in only certain scriptures. I learned this from asking them questions, them responding to me from the bible as well as what I perceived from their literature. They are using what the WT wants them to know and that is it. I perceived that they do not think on their own though they want to give you the impression that they do. It is not true at all.

One example is the resurrection of Jesus. They believe He resurrected in spirit. Their lit. says so without scripture reference. Yet, a resurrection is only a resurrection when it is with the body. i.e. Lazarus. The entire chapter of 1 cor 15 speaks to this as well. The first part is the Gospel, which they do not preach, the later part speaks of the natural body to the glorified body. To which they believe Jesus had another body.

This couple also could not accept that Jesus is Jehovah even after asking them who is the Alpha and Omega, First and Last and when did that person die? Revelation 1:17-19. She could not answer but her husband said they don't believe in the trinity. That was a diversion tactic. I went bacl to A.O. and the F.L. question. In her note she said the bible refers to both Jehovah and Jesus as the A.O. and F.L. but Jesus is created and Jehovah is not. I can only hope that this question causes her to meditate on this more and have a revelation of what is going on there.

I also spoke to some former JW's about them and through that got to understand the think involved with them. It is one thing to be told about it and quite a learning experience to see it in play. Only by asking certain questions and responding in certain ways, to them, did I see this thinking reveals. They love Matthew 24 in referring to the faithful and discreet slave.........aka WT organization to them.

I know longer groan when I see them because this exchange I had with them has given me the confidence to talk with them. Simple by first hearing them out. Let them talk and get their speech out. Then either ask them questions or present them with information for them to answer or just to think about. The goal is not to argue with them but to force them to think about scriptures that the WT does not tell them because they don't read their bibles apart from WT literature. Meaning, a JW will not read the entire bible without the help of WT literature and therefore are lied to and deceived and don't know how to answer when confronted with scripture that they are not used to seeing.

My initial advice to anyone who wants to do something with them is to ask them about Rev. 1:17-19 as I did. Ask them about 1 cor 15:1-4 and ask them if they preach this message........being specific because they say they believe in the resurrection. Ask them if Jesus is enough and point to Eph 2 the entire chapter. Any or all of these things simply to get them thinking. That is the key to the whole thing.

Looks like I have another opportunity with the JW's again. I am off this weekend and this morning I had another group knock at my door. A college kid and an older guy. It was a different kind of conversation and so I actually asked a question that I never asked before and that shocked me personally.

They talked about living on the Earth with God forever as it was originally designed and the wicked with be destroyed.

Me: What does 'destroyed' me
JW: It means to be annihilated
Me: Does that mean to no exist anymore just as we were before we were born?
JW:(speechless and then fumbled around)
Me: I ask this because where is the judgment for sin? If the wicked will be annihilated then why should the wicked care about life with God since they will have not consciousness at all? They will no exist? However, if they do exist then it may change everything.
JW: I see your point

They also talked about men seeking God. I asked how does man seek God? (God calls men because we don't seek God on our own)
They pulled out a passage of Paul in Acts in Greece as well as James 4:8. I likened it to WT thinking since James is talking to Christians.

We had a great conversation and I took their zine. They asked about coming back. I told them every other Friday morning is a good time. I am looking forward to this because the only thing I seek to do is put doubt into their minds and cause them to question WT teaching and read their bile more and not the literature.

John

There is only one way to reach a JW. God Himself must prepare their hearts to receive the truth.

I met a lady and her companion in the drive way once and after a short conversation it got around to Jesus Christ being all God and all man. Her question back to me was How could God be in heaven and on earth at the same time. That truly is Watch Tower Theology. I just said, "The Watch Tower is teaching you to put God in their own little box and now you are quoting the Watch Tower, not the Bible by your question. I said, "Jesus Christ is either all God and all man or could never be our Savior unto being born again by the God Seed Seed being birthed in us, which is "Christ in you the hope of Glory". She and her companion went running down the drive way screaming "you are possessed by the Devil. I simply yelled 1 Peter 1:23.

God must prepare their hearts for what He wants us to say to them. I don't know what happened to her, but The Spirit of God has kept her on my heart for over thirty years now.

In Christ: Phillip

I want to share something that a former JW shared with me. She came out of the JW's 2 years ago and it is very different than the approach I was using.

She said she asks them the following questions.

-Do you believe the bible is the Word of God? They say yes.

-Ask, is there anywhere in the bible that says we should follow of organization of men? (referring to the WT)
She says they will usually say something about Israel ruled by a group of elders (They believe they are spiritual Israel and this makes them under the old convenant)

go to Jeremiah 17:5
NKJV Thus says the Lord:

"Cursed is the man who trusts in man
And makes flesh his strength,
Whose heart departs from the Lord.

NWT This is what Jehovah says: "Cursed is the man* who puts his trust in mere humans,+ Who relies on human power,*+ And whose heart turns away from Jehovah.

-She says ask them to explain it until they realize it also means governing body. It will get them thinking.

-Ask them what happens if they follow man for God's direction then go to 1 john 4:1

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

-Ask when was the last time you questioned anything you were being told? They will be hesitant but will say yes. Then take them to
Luke 21:8
And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them.

She informed me that they are trained to stop at 'He' but to make them go further and read the next 6 sentences.

It is like the Berean call.

James White: understanding JW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3GbBB_pIs
Jeff Durbin: dealing with cults https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0m-taQc6FM

Does could help.

by wijnand on 2015/4/24 2:47:42

James White: understanding JW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3GbBB_pIs
Jeff Durbin: dealing with cults https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0m-taQc6FM

Does could help.

I will watch these videos but my previous post is coming from someone who was a witness for 50 yrs. She informed me that she spent 10-15 hours a day studying the bible when she left to understand that which she was being lied to about. The questions are things that are biblical but also pertain to the JW's as a group and establishes a foundation when talking to them because it shakes their world a bit. After examining it I would have to agree after hearing from her and hearing the vast number of testimonies of those who have left the JW's.

I have had discussions with JW's every 2 weeks lately. Just had one on 6/5. I wrote about the event on my blog and I would like to post the link to it on her rather than post it because it is a bit long but this forums rules forbid that. Only other thing I can do is post it in segments so it isn't so overwhelming. Is anyone open to me doing this? If not I will not post

John

I would be interested. I know a family that is Jehovah Witness and I am trying to learn how to talk to them. Thanks.

Here is the story of my encounter:

The Jehovah's Witness came to my house as I was getting ready to go for an errand. They were actually 90 minutes later than last time and as a result I didn't think they were going to show up. The boy and an older man but a different older man. Ralph and Jesse were their names. There were 2 others in the car. We had our discussion in the garage since I had just opened it up. It lasted an hour. Seemed like a long hour to me and as a result I am going to try to recall as much as I can for this blog.

If you have not read about my previous talk with them you can read it here because this conversation is a bit of a follow up to it plus more.

May 22, 2015 Jehovah's Witness conversation.

Our talk began with the citations showing the Watchtower proclaiming false words. Blatantly false words. Jesse said he looked into these citations and said that he found that these were 'revised'. So I asked if the Watchtower ever repented of them as a result? Both he and Ralph paused ( I think they were caught off guard) and said no, they only revised it. I think they may have mentioned receiving new light as well. I was not amused. I went back and forth with them between these citations, 5 in all, and the 2 citations of a Christian pastor who gave a false prophecy that really mirrors the citations of the Watchtower. In the middle of the sheet of citations are scriptures about testing false prophets, testing the spirits and a warning of not being deceived. All of these scriptures were glossed over by these Jehovah's Witnesses. They declared that the Watchtower is a group of men and prone to mistakes. I said, just like this pastor yet what does the bible say about those who speak in the name of Jehovah? They continue to go back to revised. It became a dog and pony show. One in which the dog chased its tail. I was becoming a bit exhausted inside realizing that common sense is not in this conversation and critical thinking has never been involved with this couple. It is a contrast of critical thinking vs. mind control responses.

I decided to go to my next point. Isaiah 43:10 and I told Jesse that he mentioned this in our last visit so I looked it up. He was perplexed as if he didn't recall that conversation. I could understand and gave him the benefit of the doubt. He is 17 yrs old.

Isaiah 43:10 nwt
"You are my witnesses,”+ declares Jehovah, "Yes, my servant whom I have chosen,+ So that you may know and have faith in me* And understand that I am the same One.+ Before me no God was formed, And after me there has been none.

nkjv
"You are My witnesses,” says the Lord,
"And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

I told Jesse that he said that this is where the JW's get their name and servant refers to the WT. Both he and Ralph turned to this and read it loud. Ralph said 'witnesses' was Israel but Jesse said that in some convention year Jehovah's Witnesses were known as the International Bible and Tract society. It was declared that this name would cause others to think they were like regular Christians so the WT changed the name to Jehovah's Witnesses from this reference. I didn't chase that point because it is a silly rabid trail. I did say that 'servant' isn't referring to the Watchtower but to Jesus. Ralph said it was 'servants' before he read it. He didn't correct himself but he didn't say I was wrong either. This scripture led me to something in the NT. I asked them if the Old Testament says anything in reference to Jesus? I don't remember what their response was to this question. I asked them to turn to John 5:39 to read it.

John 5:39-40 nwt
"You are searching the Scriptures+ because you think that you will have everlasting life by means of them; and these are the very ones* that bear witness about me.+ 40 And yet you do not want to come to me+ so that you may have life.

nkjv
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

I asked them where the Old Testament talks about Jesus? I don't remember them ever giving an answer and I was too eager to show them a little bit of it, I think. I asked them to turn to Mark 1:1-3

Mark 1:1-3 nwt
The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the Son of God: 2 Just as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "(Look! I am sending my messenger ahead of you,* who will prepare your way.)+ 3 A voice of one crying out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of Jehovah!* Make his roads straight.’”

nkjv
The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. 2 As it is written in the Prophets:
"Behold, I send My messenger before Your face,
Who will prepare Your way before You.”
3 "The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make His paths straight.’

I stopped them as 'messenger' and asked who is this? They paused and Ralph said John the Baptist. I said YES. After they finished I asked who is Jehovah in this since John is preparing the way for Jehovah. They said Jesus came after but the verse doesn't say Jesus is Jehovah. It says 'the way of'........ Very slick language they are using to weasel through this. By the way, this scripture is a combination of 2 scriptures from Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3. They refused to acknowledge that Jesus is being referred to as Jehovah in this verse. I think they are thinking that Jesus is the way of Jehovah and not Jehovah Himself. We talked about this for a few minutes and then moved on. I am not sure if I made a mistake in moving on from this or not but I can say my patience was running low from the introduction of our conversation. It was obvious to me there so I was getting curious how they will weasel out of any other scriptures.

Next I asked them to go to John 5:16-19 nwt
For this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because he was doing these things during the Sabbath. 17 But he answered them: "My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.”+ 18 This is why the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father,+ making himself equal to God.
Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.+ For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner.

nkjv
For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[c] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”
18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner

They said that Jesus never claimed to be God in this passage and that the Pharisees were wrong in this accusation of Him in this. They were mistaken. I found it amusing because it seems to me this couple has to say this to keep in line with WT false prophecies. The came to v. 19 to show that Jesus never claimed to be God and that verse demonstrated that. I asked if Jesus didn't come as in the form of a servant? For a servant made a little lower than the angels so of course he will regard Himself as a servant because that was part of his role when he came.

Right after this we got on the conversation of who is Jehovah and who is Jesus. Jesus is created but they didn't say anything about Him being an angel. I asked what exactly is Jesus if He is created and not an angel? The bible does say there is anything between God and angels. They referred to me a scripture about Jesus being 'the firstborn'. I don't remember was passage it was but I didn't say there very long for I found that to be a bit fruitless. Somewhere in this part they mentioned Isaiah about Jesus being 'a might god' but not God. I asked how this can be since only Jehovah is God. They said 'might god' isn't God in the traditional sense. Well. I was in quick sand at this point since what they were saying made my head swim because it wasn't making any sense to me. I bet it made perfect sense to them though.

I turned the conversation back to these citations because inside I was reminded to stick to 1 or 2 platforms and that is it. To deviate from that is to go in circles and nothing will be remembered and the conversation will be fruitless.

I found it annoying when I brought these citations up, held the paper up above my left shoulder and found both of them leaning in to read them again. Now, to the average person this means 1 of 2 things. They forgot what the citations said because of nerves. I doubt this since they are talking to people every day? Or they are using that as a pause method to figure out what to say according to the program put into their minds. It was the same responses. New light and revision but they would not say repentance at all. I found that very striking.

Ralph then talked about proclaiming the kingdom of God and how the JW's are in 200+ countries which is what the bible says would happen. I told him there are Christians ministries doing the same thing in as many countries. He seemed irritated with this and stepped toward me with an angry tone to say that is NOT TRUE. I also mentioned Mormons to which he said he just spoke with a Mormon. I guess this meant the Mormon confessed to him that the JW's were in more countries?

I turned this back to the citations and read another one that we didn't focus on. I only focused on the shortest one because it was an easy read and as false as their is 24 hours in a day.
I used the following citation

1938 "So Jehovah's visible organization under Christ is a channel for bringing the divine interpretation of his word to his devoted people." (Watchtower, June 1, 1938, p. 169)

I focused on the word 'Channel' and I asked if they understood what that means in this context? Jesse looked blank. I gave him the example of a psychic or medium. They channel spirits. What does that mean? I means a demons speaks through them. You will either hear the voice of the individual speaking for the voice of the demon or it will be the actual demon. In the same way this citation is saying the same thing. The WT is a channel of divine interpretation. I asked 'I thought the Holy Spirit' is our teacher to each individual? Not an organization. They seemed to trip over their words on this and then I brought them back to what the bible says about false prophets. This citation is a bold proclamation of who they say they are yet their words show they are false. This couple came back to those infamous words 'revision' and 'new light'. I asked Jesse if he has ever done any critical thinking especially since he brags about doing research on the Watchtower. I told him that I don't believe he has done much critical thinking and he hasn't done enough research especially since I have 5 citations of false teaching and yet he is sure he did lots of research. I did realize that he is saying this because Ralph is there. And older man. He has to say this otherwise he is going to be in trouble. This caused me to wonder if I should keep my conversation direct to the older person . Only an ex Jehovah's Witness can inform me of that and I welcome that advice.

At the end of this conversation they brought up the master and the slave and the faithful slave but it was a topic for another conversation. I know where this was going and it follows the same nonsense as their Is 43:10 interpretation. It is isogesis and not exegesis. Reading into scripture what you want to see and understand instead of letting scripture say speak for itself.

And example of exegesis would be the parting of the red sea. God did this for Israel and He can do that for you and blaze a trail when you have hit a wall. Isogesis is that God did this and it ended up being a one time act and set in history.

Just before we parted ways Jesus said he was going to bring me information about 1914 and what it 'really' meant. I laughed at this because I asked him if the citations is really false then why print it? Look at that copyright date on that citation. 1989 and Jesse said the WT never repented of it but only did a revision. So, to the thinking and critical mind what can a man do to save face and show that this 1914 declaration was of God? Imagine, if a person was born in 1914 they would be 101 years old. What was the event in this citation? Ralph said wars, I said, well evil still exists so try again for another answer because that answer doesn't work for this declaration.

In closing Jesse said that in July he is going to the Dominican Republic for 2 months. I am guessing for missionary work? He mentioned that Ralph might be able to me some other information. To this I said I am open to anything you want to bring me. After all, it is their literature I can use to show their organization to be false. Now. whether they can accept is a different road.

This whole episode lasted an entire hour. I have to say that it is the first time I was actually irritated by it for 2 reasons. I allowed myself go to go too many scriptures and not to be focused on 1 to 2 topics. The other was the lack of critical thinking and the excuses they made for these quotes because they could not acknowledge heresy for what it was. It demonstrated to me the mind control placed on these people and how tight it is but I don't know what they were actually thinking inside. Where either of them understanding what I was saying and realizing what I said was correct but could not acknowledge it right there? Always a possibility. I think we have all done that at some point. It takes a humble heart to acknowledge wrong and with the JW's it is cause for disfellowship and that means loss of all family and friends. For a 17 yr old boy that can be devastating!

I hope you enjoyed and learned for this discussion I had with the Jehovah's Witnesses. I usually like this talks but this particular one has caused me to study scripture even more and that is what I appreciate these conversations.

JW

My plan, next visit, is touch base again on the false citations but then to either talk about why Thomas said 'My Lord My God' and was not rebuked as well as Rev. 1:18-19 and/or present to them the Gospel and ask them what their thoughts are on it.

John

Thank you for this. I have only had one short discussion with this family. I already know they are difficult to convince. I am not trying to make that my job But am leaving that to the Holy Spirit. I pray that I can plant the seed.

Again, thank you.

There are 2 things really to do. Show them , as I did, how the Watchtower keeps changing. The Bible never changes, truth never does yet the Watchtower does but remember to have citations. The others is to show that Jesus is God but do it by asking them questions.

i.e. Why did Thomas says to Jesus 'My Lord, and My God'? Is God only referred to as Alpha and OMega, Beginning and the End, the first and the Last? Be firm that they say yes to these adjectives. You can then take them to Rev. 1:8 to confirm that this is referring to God. Then go to REV 22:12-13 and confirm that this is referring to God. Then go to Rev 1:17-18 and confirm who 'First and Last' is in V17. When v18 is read ask when did Jehovah die? It confirms the previous 2 verse plus what Thomas said. Don't push them hard on it but tell them to examine it because it is there in scripture. They will say Jesus is created based on Rev 3:14 yet that refers to Jesus being the originator of creation. Stay firm on the former scriptures.

I want to share my blog about my conversations with the JW's. This one is from today, 5/7/2016

http://jw-thoughts.blogspot.com/2016/05/presenting-gospel-to-jehovahs-witness.html

http://jw-thoughts.blogspot.com
If you go to the regular blog you can see my other write ups. See what you think.

John