Is Creflo Dollar a preacher of the true gospel or a false teacher.

2 Timothy 3 1-4 (NIV)

"1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."

The desire for earthly wealth is a common trait of a false prophet.

Romans 16:17-18 (The Message Bible)
"One final word of counsel, friends. Keep a sharp eye out for those who take bits and pieces of the teaching that you learned and then use them to make trouble. Give these people a wide berth. They have no intention of living for our Master Christ. They're only in this for what they can get out of it, and aren't above using pious sweet talk to dupe unsuspecting innocents."

Romans 16:17-18 (New International Version)
"17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."

Anyone who teaches anything that Christ or his apostles did not teach is to be avoided.

Ezekiel 22:27
"Her officials within her are like wolves tearing their prey; they shed blood and kill people to make unjust gain."

1 John 2:15 (New International Version)
"15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."

Having read all these scriptures and others on covetousness that always point at a false doctrine. I am wondering if Creflo dollar is a false teacher as can be identified by scripture. I have many pentecostal friends that are still hypnotized by his leaven. I do not judge him as a person as we will all have our works judged by the lord. But i am simply examining the content of his teaching that appears to be demonically inspired. I would like to hear from both parties of this debate.

Since I'll be judged by every unprofitable & idle word, all I will say is I believe this man should be prayed for. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Jude 1:3 (New International Version)
"3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

I agree with krispy the usual line of "i'll just pray for him" is not really scriptural. Scriptural is what the word of God instructs us to do. And marking them that cause division via heresy is what we are intructed to do. We are also urged to contend for the faith that has been entrusted to us. In the natural when a sheep notices a wolf it warns the others and flees from the wolf it doesnt quietly make its exit and pray for the wolf and other sheep it cries and it flees.

Matthew 7:13-16
"13 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
15 Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?"

What did Jesus say that the thornbush represents in mark 4?

If I care for this man's soul as much as I do my own, then I'll pray for him; & if that's not Scriptural then I guess I don't understand the Gospel Of Christ nearly as much as you do Rainman; hence, I would ask you to pray for me as well sir. I believe that when the church of today shows the Love it did as in the days of the Apostles, then the world will begin to again repond as it did in those days.

No kidding about gettin out of balance. Vengence is the Lord's, not the Christian's. Better to talk about how this man can be convinced of coming to repentence, which is a merciful gift of God than blasting a man behind his back. Mr Dollar speaks for Himself; but God's sheep hear God's voice. Hell is very terrible place, & I wish no man to go there whoever he may be.

On a side note: His half-brother is 50cent (the rapper).

Get it? Just kidding, bad joke.

I hope we can at least all agree that if the Lord was to leave anyone of us, that man or woman would indeed become less than a man or a woman. Meaning the children of God are children of God only by the Grace of God. God help us all to work out our own salvation with great fear & trembling. God help us to be merciful as He is merciful. I know I need this. I love you guys; & I'm sorry if I come across as misunderstanding you. I see your point, I do; but must do all things for His Glory.

Well, the prayer of a righteous man availeth much; therefore, the Christian should be willing to be filled with the Spirit of the Lord, becoming righteous, then, God willing, God would move on his behalf to heal the backslidden that they pray for. I think christians coming 2gether to help lead others to repentance is a good thing; if, it's done in a holy & loving way.

I think "LOVE" is one of the most misunderstood things. If we love God then we will obey his commands. His commands are in his written word. To love God is not just in an outward appearance of charity or humility or compassion but its also a desire to obey his commands. This is the essence of having his laws written on our hearts. The bible doesn't say we are to love of pray for false prophets but to mark them and avoid them so surely if we truely love God we must obey what he says in his word regarding false prophets. These men are leading millions into hell we cant sit back and just watch and pray for them, if we truely have compassion for those who are decieved we must reach out to the deceived and lost with the gospel and not just pray in the comfort of our living rooms. Lets not forget that even though we pray for the lost and show them our so called good works "faith cometh by hearing" nobody can be saved unless they hear the true gospel of christ. Satans intention is to make the way to eternal life as difficult as possible to find. I cannot truely say i love God if im not obedient to him or his word charity is easy to falsify externally. Paul was moved to tears when he saw via revelation what these wolves would do to the flock. He warned and he was moved to tears. To me that was true compassion that paul had. Im yet to find one scripture old or new testament where we are told to pray for false teachers. When we read the book of Galatians for instance we see how paul addresses the church regarding a false doctrine that had been introduced. Why didnt paul just pray for the Galatians? Why didnt he just pray for the teacher who had decieved the galatians? Why did he write the book of galatians?

"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love & good deeds." - Heb 10:24 (NIV)

If, by the grace of God, I ever become holy & pious as the Apostle Paul & the other apostles & prophets in the Holy Scriptures.... I, if God wills it, will then blast other men whom I perceive as false teachers & brethren; but, my angry words will I'm sure be drenched in the dew of heaven & the love of God. Please pray for me saints; I need the prayers of the Godly. Thankyou for your precious time.

If, by the grace of God, I ever become holy & pious as the Apostle Paul & the other apostles & prophets in the Holy Scriptures.... I, if God wills it, will then blast other men whom I perceive as false teachers & brethren

If you believe you need to be as "holy" as the apostles and prophets in order to call out false teachers...well, then you've missed the point of grace.

"For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?"
1 Corinthians 4:7

"But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God that is with me."
1 Corinthians 15:10

You do not have to work up to some level of holiness in order to be able to discern and rebuke with authority. Christ is our righteousness, sanctification, and redemption (1 Cor.1:30). Any righteousness or holiness that you may have comes not from yourself, but from Christ. Every saint, from the least to the greatest, has the same righteousness and the same authority (to preach the Word, to rebuke, over demons, etc.) because these don't come from anything we do, but as a result of Christ's finished work on the cross, and His resurrection. They're God's gift to every believer. You don't have to earn a gift. It's truly all of grace.

I really don't know you, but if you are a true saint I would recommend a thorough and prayerful study of the Scriptures about WHO YOU ARE in Christ, and His great promises to you as a believer and child of God. It will truly encourage, empower, and FREE you. God's truth brings deliverance.

Thanks nearthecross. I'll heed your advice; although I'd rather become holy 1st, than go around and blasting people on the internet 1st. I'll be judged with the same measure I judge others; my own words & thoughts will be set b4 me on that Great Day Of Judgment. Once the logs are taken out of my own eyes by the grace of God, then I will be better abled to take out splinters that are in the eyes of others, if God wills it to be done.

Sin is what is really cowardly. I'm just looking ahead, that's all, to that great day. To be cleansed from iniquity first; lest I die 1st, & say, "Lord, I did this & that in Your Name", & He says, "Away from Me; I never knew you." Better to grow in holiness, than feed a critical spirit; & I speak for & to myself Krispy. I'd rather have God do His will through me, than me think I'm doin His will when I'm really not. May Christ get the glory due to His Name. I have a wedding to prepare for. God bless you Krispy; I mean that.

(I have a friend in Kamploops.)

It seems you should simply pray for those here who are in perceived sin instead of standing against them.

I don't care for the personal jokes and innuendo because they have little or nothing to do with the fact that Creflo Dollar's teachings are both contrary to God's word and offending many "little children" who are either new believers or are yet to become believers. His teachings have little effect on most mature believers, but for the sake of Christ and for the sakes of those who are immature or already deceived by his false gospel, it is better that his teachings be exposed for the damage they cause to the kingdom of God.

I believe your statement is true jpspeer; however, I also believe that there are ways to go about & be salt & light.
There are many "religious" people on the internet that seem, by the way they type their words, just like to "kick" a deceived man or woman when they are down. They seem to like having their religious egos stroked at the expense of others. I wonder if their friends & families see the Spiritual & Biblical Jesus in them in their own peersonal lives.
Could I suggest that they should first get right with God, & take up their own crosses.
When exposing a false teacher, could I suggest to first gather "word for word, & letter for letter" what that person says or writes that is leading others astray or could lead them astray. Find out through the plumbline of God's Word where their teaching contradicts God's Word. Then, go to the Lord in sincere prayer about it. The devil does masquerade himself as an angel of light, & if tares are being rooted up, then couldnot some wheat be rooted up with them?
If, the "Holy" Spirit leads to display the matter publically then, before privately going to the offending party, then, do it for the glory of God, snatching those that are blinded & deceived before they fall into the ditch or the fire forever.
And I do think it is better that instead of saying, "this guy's a false teacher" & give doctrine that'll backup your agenda, to have recorded references of what the "false teacher" has said, so others that follow that individual can check those references & check those Scriptures for themselves. I think this way is better than just labelling others.
If it's done for the Love of God & our neighbor, then it will be done in Love, & how, & when God decides. He knows best. He grants repentence, & His arm is not too short to save.
The prayers of the righteous do avail much though. Let us keep our robes white without spot or blemish, and fight the good fight of faith.
The Lord bless you all,
Please pray for me,
Richie

Disclaimer: This is not directed at any side of this argument.

Hosea 4:6 "my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
"Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children."

The above passage was one of my favourites when i was deceived. I used to think it meant that Gods people are destroyed because they didnt have accumulated knowledge(the 3025 or so steps to victory available on DVD). But the holy spirit has ministered to me (please ask him for yourself and dont take my word for it) his people are not destroyed because they dont memorise huge volumes of information they are destroyed because they reject (refuse to accept) the truth that is revealed within in Gods word. It can be obvious to see idolatry when its figure-head is a golden calf but its not so easy when we carve out a God in our imagination by rejecting the truth. Some say God is love and reject his holiness some say God is Holy and fail to see his love and compassion. The greatest commandment is to love our God with all our hearts and the second is like on to it. I love God and sometimes i hear great emotional gospel music and profess my love only for my heart to be exposed by my own very disobedience and rebellion (But i love God.. i really do) who will save me form this body of death. Love is more than charity to our neighboors. Jesus loved God not just emotionally but every fibre of his being yearned simply to glorify his father. But for the holy spirit i dont think as a human personally i could even love God. I only really loved me. I try to dress my love with religion and dead works and charity and many think that brother is so loving (or maybe not) but time and time again i am exposed as a fraud. Lord save the deceived i pray but yet walk down the street and pass hundreds and not even bother to speak to one about Jesus. I gave thousands because it "proved" i love God and wanted to extend his kingdom but i never gave 5 minutes to preach the gospel to anyone at my work. I thank God for showing me who i am without him cause it helps me appreciate who i am with him.

God is holy he chose us and he sactifies us by his word but only if we dont reject it. How can we reject Gods word and become sactified by it. Love and Holiness are two sides of the same God. When we love him we obey his word and it sactifies us and makes us holy. The milk of the word is what makes us all grow to mature christians.

Lets be honest and forgive me for saying this but some of us need to pray more, some of us need to read the bible more, some of us need to clean up our lives of sin and all these things amongst many others can hinder us hearing clearly (yet he loves even the weakest amongst us).

I dont think God is the author of confusion when 3 people give different account of the same event

a. they are all wrong
b.someone is right

I am still searching and praying for God to expound more clearly to me personally about false prophets and what to do according to the scriptures.

I believe when David (young sheperd) snatched the lamb from the jaws of the wild beast thats a metaphor that we can still apply today. God is not feeble and he is still able to gather and save his sheep even from the darkest of places (yea though i walk.......). God saved me from the prosperity Gospel and i pray he will yet save others still maybe though our prayers maybe though some random event i dont know how he does what he does but lets allow ourselves to be vessels for his workmanship.

If we take out of Gods word what we like and REJECT what we dont like then it is not the gospel we believe but ourselves- Some famous theolgian i can remember

edited:
ps: someone said why post on the internet. Creflo doesnt read internet forums. Brother if it wasnt for people on youtube and forums like this crying out and warning about false teachers i would have never questioned the lies i was fed. Forums like this are read by thousands worldwide in the position i was who just might search the scriptures because of this.

Rainman, may God Himself direct you to His Heavenly, Eternal Kingdom. My expressions in this thread are a generalization of how a Christian can go about rebuking false teachers with the help of the Lord. I probably need more of God's grace & assistance than any1 here. I know Love & Holiness are of God Himself. When I sent out a heartfelt "God bless you" to Krispy, I should've sent 1 your way; just un4getfulness on my part. No hard feelings Rainman. May we bring forth much fruit that pleases God. Please pray 4 me.

Thanks Natan4Jesus; will have to check it out when I get back to Kamloops on way to the Victoria conference. Got some bad dial-up going on up here in the Northern Rockies-The streaming glitches every few seconds.

Hi Guys i was studying this yesterday and was led to share what i have learnt. I believe there are some here who will undoubtedly have received truths from Ezekiel 34 so please share with all. You may PM me if you do not wish to post. The aim of this is for us to share some word with a view that we are edified. I dont completely understand all of Ezekiel 34 but i trust that if we lean on the lord together his spirit of truth will expound on many truths for us all. I am judged by the word myself and can see God talking to me directly in these very scriptures.

Ezekiel 34
Shepherds and Sheep
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them: 'this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Woe to the shepherds of Israel who only take care of themselves! Should not shepherds take care of the flock? 3 You eat the curds, clothe yourselves with the wool and slaughter the choice animals, but you do not take care of the flock. 4 You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bound up the injured. You have not brought back the strays or searched for the lost. You have ruled them harshly and brutally. 5 So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. 6 My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them.

[From verse 1-7 we can learn a number of things
1.\tWe see God told Ezekiel to prophesy against the fat shepherds who have become fat by eating the lords sheep.
2.\tThey were only it for themselves (Jesus refers to them as hirelings in john) they are beautifully adorned and taken care of but yet the sheep they are taking care of are neglected and not as prosperous as they are.
3.\tThey have not mended the wounded sheep. They have not reach out to the sheep individually to take care of them. Maybe due to the condition of their hearts or maybe they have grown a mega church where there are too many people for them to care for.
4.\tWhile these people might recruit people via false conversions and increase the size of the HERD the flock of the lord has not been increased as man can only be saved if he hears the gospel and the holy spirit does a mighty work.]
5.\tThey ruled Gods sheep harshly they claim to live in grace but heap the condemnation of the law upon any sheep that gets out of line or when it suits their motives (which is invariably self interest)
6.\tThey cause divisions amongst God flock with their teaching which have left some exposed to vicious wolves who desire to pick of this strayed sheep and destroy them e.g. as long as your part of my mega church you can believe what you want as Jesus isn’t the only way to God (they are very seeker friendly) ]

7 " 'Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD : 8 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, because my flock lacks a shepherd and so has been plundered and has become food for all the wild animals, and because my shepherds did not search for my flock but cared for themselves rather than for my flock, 9 therefore, O shepherds, hear the word of the LORD : 10 This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths, and it will no longer be food for them.
[From 7 -10
1.\twe see the lord pronounce judgement on these hirelings that have not done their Job.
2.\tThe lord promises to deliver the sheep from their mouths (How wonderful. Lord use me in whatever way you sit fit to help deliver your sheep) ]
11 " 'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. 12 As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. 13 I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. 14 I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. 16 I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.
[I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. 16 I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice - Halleluyah]
17 " 'As for you, my flock, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will judge between one sheep and another, and between rams and goats. 18 Is it not enough for you to feed on the good pasture? Must you also trample the rest of your pasture with your feet? Is it not enough for you to drink clear water? Must you also muddy the rest with your feet? 19 Must my flock feed on what you have trampled and drink what you have muddied with your feet?
20 " 'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says to them: See, I myself will judge between the fat sheep and the lean sheep. 21 Because you shove with flank and shoulder, butting all the weak sheep with your horns until you have driven them away, 22 I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another. 23 I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. 24 I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. I the LORD have spoken.
[The lord will judge between sheep. Some sheep have indeed drank of the clear water and been nourished by it but choose to muddy the waters and make it hard for weak sheep to receive. The strong sheep sometimes bully the weaker ones until the weak sheep are eventually driven away this to the lord will judge]
25 " 'I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild beasts so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety. 26 I will bless them and the places surrounding my hill. [a] I will send down showers in season; there will be showers of blessing. 27 The trees of the field will yield their fruit and the ground will yield its crops; the people will be secure in their land. They will know that I am the LORD, when I break the bars of their yoke and rescue them from the hands of those who enslaved them. 28 They will no longer be plundered by the nations, nor will wild animals devour them. They will live in safety, and no one will make them afraid. 29 I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations. 30 Then they will know that I, the LORD their God, am with them and that they, the house of Israel, are my people, declares the Sovereign LORD. 31 You my sheep, the sheep of my pasture, are people, and I am your God, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "
John 10
Jesus makes very similar analogy.
Fat Sheperd = Hirelings
Wild beast = Wolves
Sheep = Sheep

Isaiah 56:8-12 (New International Version)
8 The Sovereign LORD declares—
he who gathers the exiles of Israel:
"I will gather still others to them
besides those already gathered."
9 Come, all you beasts of the field,
come and devour, all you beasts of the forest!
10 Israel's watchmen are blind,
they all lack knowledge;
they are all mute dogs,
they cannot bark;
they lie around and dream,
they love to sleep.
11 They are dogs with mighty appetites;
they never have enough.
They are shepherds who lack understanding;
they all turn to their own way,
each seeks his own gain.
12 "Come," each one cries, "let me get wine!
Let us drink our fill of beer!
And tomorrow will be like today,
or even far better."

Don't know if anyone has posted these verses yet, but please note the discernment, the judgement, and the weeping.

Phl 3:18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Phl 3:19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.

One who endeavors to 'defend the faith", starts out with the best of intentions and finishes bad.

The Pharisee's were only "defending the faith" (Deuteronomy 13 anyone?)

The crusaders were "defending the faith", how much blood was shed in that hellish blot of history?.

How do you reconcile this mindset with Phillipian 1:7 where Paul makes it very clear that defending the Gospel was part and parcel to his apostolic calling.

And if Paul the quintessential Apostle was set to vehemently defend the Faith, should not any Church that purports to be Apostolic do the same.

If we look at the ministry of Paul and how he dealt with false teachers it very clear what our response should be. I wont spell out what that response should be but I will say Paul did not encourage prayer to be made for those who were bring destructive doctrines into the body.

I encourage you to do a study on false teachers and the Apostles method of dealing with them. It should clear all of this up. Once we see and understand how the Apostles dealt with this scourge we should lay down any sacrine concept of love which is the root of the statement 'lets just pray for them' and seek to do what they did by Gods grace.

Revelation 2:2
.

...and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Keep in my that Jesus commended the Church in Revelations for discerning 'false' Apostles and censuring them from the body. This commendation was given for more than simply praying for those decieving the body.

The last days Apostolic Church must be willing to wield the Sword of the Lord and be ruthless when the moment requires. We must never sacrifice or diminish the integrity of Truth for the sake of a false unity or brotherly love that has at its roots something very sinister and deceptive.

People who listen to deceptive preachers and have accepted their teaching as truth are already deceived. If someone thinks they are deceived than they are probably not. We're deceived when we don't no we are, that is the danger of deception. That is why Paul is so fervent in protecting Gods people from false preachers. The spirit of such preachers is not the same spirit of Christ which is one of the things Paul points out in 2 Corinthians 11. I find it fascinating that some would be so loving and so quick NOT TO JUDGE someone who is a liar and deceiving the flock of sheep teaching things contrary to truth. For some reason so many christians become offended when one rebukes another, even when it's clearly seen in scripture.

Rainman has clearly laid out the scripture and has let that be the guide to expose Mr. Dollar. Truth is that if we rightly understand Gods word and apply that to what God has said about false preachers, it is not us that are judging but God word sheds light on the darkness. Christ says we shouldn't judge unrightly but we are to judge rightly. We can only judge rightly when it is by HIS WORD and His word is truth. So by saying that someone is teaching something false if it is clearly against scripture makes us only bearers of the truth and presenters of His light.

But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. [2 Cor 11:3]

The question we must ask, especially in these times we live in when it comes to preachers and teachers is this: Are they leading the flock to simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ? Does their influence cause us to stay devoted to Christ or not?

I highly recommend this sermon on deception by brother Zac Poonen. It has been a great blessing to me.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=15358&commentView=itemComments

With all love in Christ

You brother,
Aaron

"Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding." (Prov 23:23)

Natan have you watched that documentary? "Lord Save us from Your Followers" is completely emergent and preaches a false gospel of "loving your neighbor" (i.e. doing "good" to people, being "open-minded" and just "loving" everyone without telling them the truth) above the true, Biblical Gospel of Jesus dying on the cross to save us from our SINS and from His WRATH.

Natan4Jesus,

When a so called minister of the Gospel makes a statement such as 'I have cut out the Lord shall supply all of my needs and replaced it with the Lord shall supply all of my demands' as Creflo Dollar has, we who are called to contend for the Faith that was given at the first must arise and meet that kind of devilish alteration of the scripture with a definitive bold adherance to Pauls exortation in Titus 1:11-13

11.Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake;12.One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, "Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.13.This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply or Severely, that they may be sound in the faith;
"

If we allow any preacher that kind of liberty with the scriptures, to actually scissor out something and replace it with something of there heart we have come to the very ground of deception. For if he has a level of presumption whereby he can do that, what is to stop him from doing the same to other parts of the sacred writ. This is why Paul sais what he sais about the issue. Going away and only praying is an abdication from the position and responsibility that we have been given as the only gaurdians of Truth, for the Church is called to be the pillar and ground of the Truth.

This is the ruthlessness that I am referring to. The Church should willing to be as ruthless as it takes to preserve the verity of the Lords councel. The examples that you gave for those defending the Truth has no application to we who have a desire and a mandate from Heaven to 'contend' for the Faith once given.

The the Apostolic Church will be ruthless in that it will honor that which pertains to Gods Glory above the preservation of a false unity which sais 'dont rebuke or speak against a preacher in dangerous error, just pray for him'.

As Paul confronted Peter and that to His face for his duplicity so must the Church be ready to correct and rebuke even if it means the loss of a previous relationship that may have been benefitial at one time.

By Apostolic, I refer to a Church that is functioning as God has always intended it to function. I refer to a Church whose main pre-occupation is the Glory and honor of God alone. By Apostolic I refer to a Church that is 'Sent' and commissioned by the Lord Himself and therefore can confer the same blessings that the Lord Himself did.

There are more than more than a couple of instances in the New Testament of the Lord expressing ruthless action. By ruthless I mean saying and doing something with no regard to how it will affect those around you. If we have a higher consideration for the feelings and emotions of even our brothers and sisters in Christ then we can not be an Apostolic entity in the earth. We may very well be a Christian lodge or fraternity but we will not be Church that gives forth any sense of Heaven and eternity.

Apostolic is what the True Church is at its root. It has nothing to do with a denomination. It has to do with reality as God defines reality. An Apostolic Church is struck through with a perception of reality as God Himself percieves it and is therefore fitted to be the voice and expression of God in a world that is utterly oppossed to Truth and reality.

I think you have a point about paisley taking on the Catholic Church. I have a close friend who grew up catholic and met Jesus led and was deceived by Pentecostal excess and word of faith and was led eventually out of that completely by God. I still know a few members of family that are catholic and all i actually do is pray for them (which is so ironic on so many different levels). I recently discovered that the WOF movement is the lead cause of the growth of Christianity in African and Brazil. The gospel that is reaching the third world in places like Nigeria is Creflos brand of the Gospel.

There are over 6 million people in brazil that have swallowed the WOF leaven and about the same in Nigeria alone who are via false conversions taking to this brand of the gospel. So being someone who has family who were unsaved and by a popeish declaration the WOF ministers have declared these family members saved can you see why some people might have a genuine cry in our hearts for these people to be truly saved? (God saves people despite which denomination we might belong to) Its not a case of intellectual wrangling or self righteousness I have been personally admonished to seize with from such wrangling. I certainly must examine my own fruits but the fruits of my family members are not the fruits of people that has truly been saved (by their fruits you shall know them). My sister was watching MTV and beyonce was on it, and my sister who is a Christian says that she would love if her daughter grew up and had half the stuff beyonce had achieved. My heart broke how can she say such a thing? Its very easy. while people like creflo endorse carnal unsaved celebrities because they come to the dome on a Sunday and tithe and then strip naked on MTV on Monday to people like my sister the line of sanctification and worldliness becomes blurred until they become completely spiritually blind. This covetousness is inbreed and indoctrinated into millions of poor people.

Creflo
I really like creflo I wonder how much good he could do if he woke up from WOF deception. But if you have never been deceived by WOF and have never been under such a ministry you wont realise how dangerous such fellows can be. He doesn’t just teach lies he systematically goes through the word and twists every conceivable scripture and uses to attack any theology other than his own in a very similar fashion to JW’s. Creflo attacks the truth more “ruthlessly” than you can imagine. He systematically brain washes his followers (millions worldwide) with a mixture of humour and psychology.

We might even run into creflo in heaven so I condemn no man. But we should not so easily trivialise the damage these men are doing. When poor people around the world are being exploited by these damnable heresies in the millions my heart bleeds. Creflo is not a small fry as some people think. He has hundreds of “Spiritaul Sons” who learn from him and teach their own congregations the same leaven. I was delivered by the holy Ghost form one such ministry. Allot of us may say well its boring banging on about the same old WOF guys letd pray for them and move on to something more important. But if we saw things from Gods perspectives how do we think God feels about millions of his sheep being lead astray by wolves? We can not grow weary of warning others and we can not grow weary in prayer we have to press on and on still are race is run.

Some of us will have a calling to trivial in intercessory prayer some will have a calling that will allow them to hear what the spirit of the lord is saying to the churches as they hear the words “SON OF MAN PROPHESY TO MY PEOPLE AND SAY THUS SAYS THE LORD”. Whether we are called to be feet, arms, legs or even the armpit the point is we are baptise into one body and all gifts are given for the edification of the body of Christ. So lets not the eye despise the foot. God bless. We are one body with many part let us all serve in our calling and not despise one another.

[edited]
Please if you managed to get this far down this post before you go to bed tonight say and extra prayer with me. Lets pray for lost family members unsaved or decieved. That God may indeed do a wonderful work of salvation for them. IF every member of you family is truly saved then just pray for rainmans family -Thanks

Please read particulary verse 15 onwards and be blessed
1 Corinthians 12 (New International Version)

1Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
4There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men.
7Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a] and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b] 11All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines.
12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[c] one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body.
21The eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!" 22On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, 24while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, 25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other. 26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret?

Have any of you confronted Creflo Dollar, in person? in letter? in email?. We need to confront those in error, not just talk about them.

The prosperity gospel makes me sick. I have stood against it personally for all my christian 34 years. However when I have heard it preached I have confronted the preacher, shared the scriptures that refute their preaching and suffered the consequences, even expulsion.

However I still love those men, and pray for truth to enter their hearts.

In this wonderful forum, it would seem to me, better to share what these errors are rather than pin-point any man.

These are a couple of the out-of-context verses this false gospel thrives on:

3Jo 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Deu 8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for [it is] he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as [it is] this day.

There are many more, but time is short for me now. Here is the other part of the word that they discount and rarely, if ever, preach from:

1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

k 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse [any] falsely; and be content with your wages, (how many of us are content with our wages).

Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor (not to the rich), and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.

2Cr 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and [yet] possessing all things.

1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and [into] many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

The grief of this prosperity gospel is that all this time is spent preaching money and no time spent preaching the kingdom. We need to be very careful, even forum sharing and preaching against false doctrine can have the same effect.

We preach Jesus and Him crucified. Only that will change lives.

Jhn 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

At my last church (WOF) i met a elder at my local gym. I got talking to him about my concerns about the doctrine and because the "WAITING LIST" to see the "MAN OF GOD" was 6 months he advised me to write an letter to the pastors personal email. I wrote my heart-felt letter to which he didnt even acknowledge. I was led to another church and thank God for leading me by the hand in such a time. Months after i left several of the elders resigned or conveniently heard a calling to other ministries as the pastor who had divorced his wife refused to discuss it with the church and married a choir singer 15 years his junior. Nobody could say anything as you would be touching "THE ANOINTING". I still see this elder and he is very un-happy as he told me so much is wrong and the pastor has become almost an untouchable diety. My ex pastor like many WOF have body guards surrounding them during service so you have wait 6-12 months after screening for an appointment. So it is difficult to talk to them as people like me are seen as unworthy to even talk to them. Even when you find a senior pastor and show them all theses scriptures they say that you dont have the same "ANOINTING" the "MAN OF GOD" does. I heard some of these guys add stuff into the bible and justify it by saying Jesus appeared in their bedroom and expounded new revelations. If i ever come across such fellow if i am led to confront them i will if not i walk away and pray. I don't ever want to take any action unless the Holy Spirit is backing me as it is fruitless. I can emphasize with you if you lost friends by addressing this issue im a young guy and i have lost almost all xtain friends because of this and the easy thing would be non-confrontational way. But when i read in John 15 that the world would hate me as they did my master. I started to realise that if i follow in the steps of Christ then the world will hate me. The world hates, persecutes and rejects the gospel and its messenger. If the world doesn't hate me, reject me and persecute me its because i haven't taken up my cross. Personally its much easier to have a cross-less non-suffering walk with Christ. but i don't think the spirit has offered that to me despite my flesh begging and pleading for one. The apostles suffered greatly for the gospel in this world. May God continue to give us the grace to partake in his suffering. I believe believers should act under the unction of the holy spirit and do whatever the spirit instructs them to do in each and every individual case. The epistles we all love to read are generally addressed to churches with instructions of righteousness and admonitions where error had crept in. But as you so rightly suggest the focus must be on the content and not the orator. Allot of my friends that are still ensnared by this would know what WOF is. Thats why i intentionally refer to creflo as he is a firm favorite with WOF believers my intention is not to focus on him but to focus on his message.
My hope is that somewhere some WOF believer like those in my family whilst doing some internet browsing may stumble across this thread and even if they reject it they would pick up the bible and just start to question and i know the holy spirit will do the rest.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=33562&forum=34&0 (great resource)

Thank you RainMan,

I did know I was supposed to speak out in these instances. I also knew in the last one mentioned I was signing my own death warrent, so to speak. But that is OK. This church worshipped the pastor, he had body guards, just like you described, and you couldn't get to him unless you were invited. God had told me specifically go there, I guess to confront. Not a job I enjoy, believe me. He is still pastoring, but the numbers have slipped. You see the ship that they are expecting of huge returns on their dollars, fails them in the end. It is propped up by you need to give more, that is why you aren't reaping. So sad. This man even told the congregation, and I was there, I want you to give the biggest offering ever, and then confronted people in the service with, "you can give $2000.00 dollars can't you?". He went around the room and put that to a number of people, unfortunately none were brave enough to say no when everybody was looking on. Then when the "sermon" was all over with he told them "remember to pay your vows to the Lord". Ugh.

I love this man and believe he has never been saved. I think he saw the business opportunity of the TV evangelist gospel and cashed in on it, literally. God help him, and those he is deceiving. I have seen a number of disillustioned folks from that church lately. This is definitely Ezek 34 in action.

My final comment on this post is that we do need to pray for these men. I think some are opportunists and therefore unsaved, unsaved act like unsaved. God can still break their hearts. And some of them are blinded by the enemy and actually believe what they are preaching, the enemy blinding their eyes to the rest of the word of God. They need prayers that the blinders be removed. Some are backslidden, bitter, and are deliberately fleecing the sheep. God's judgment will rest upon them.

Jesus told us to love our enemies. The enemies of the gospel are still to be loved, that they might become brothers and sisters in Christ. The God who knocked Saul to the ground, making him Paul, can just as easily knock these to the ground. We need to love enough to pray and war for their souls. We also need to pray that God will protect the babies and bring them out,and that the church would be matured that we also would not become deceived.

Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Generally speaking I refrain from getting involved in discussions pertaining to popular preachers/evangelists. I did make the exception concerning Bentley. The main reason I refrain is because I am totally ignorant of them until I read of them here on SI. Then I will check out their websites.

There is one recurring thought that comes whenever I read threads like this. The idea is always floated by some that one needs to pray for these who are perceived to be false teachers. But I have a question for you who declare this: do you know of any false teacher who has ever repented of teaching false doctrine? Jim Bakker has allegedly repented of preaching WOF doctrine but not before going through the fire of imprisonment, thanks to the USA judicial system. Other then him, who has?

I know I am making it sound useless to pray for such. There are a few incidents in Scripture where we read of instructions to not pray for apostates because God will not hear: Jeremiah 7:16, Jeremiah 11:11-15 - this is referring to specific incidents, I agree. But consider 1John 5:16. Are there not some principles at work here that one needs to carefuly look at?

As I understand the mindset of a false teacher, he/she did not get there overnight: it was a process, a process that repeatedly refused to listen to the voice of the Spirit.

Seems to me if one feels so led to pray for these people, you should, but do you not think that if others do not feel so led, you should acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is not prompting them to do so?

My thoughts...

ginnyrose

I have never seen those scriptures before so thanks for posting. Personally i cant answer your questions but i can see the point you are trying to raise. I can see from the scripture in 1 john 5:16 that john seems to be alluding to damnable sins i think peter, and paul also say similar things about certain destruction that follows damnable heresies i thought there was only one unforgivable sin. so maybe this unforgivable sin takes may forms and that is a scary thought. As the thread has gone on i have learnt different things all of which i examine with scripture and pray over. Thanks for your post.

"Paul exhorts us to mark and avoid those who cause division by preaching false doctrine..."

One passage of scripture was on my mind this weekend. It is from Isaiah. It says,

"But this is a people robbed and spoiled; they are all of them snared in holes, and they are hid in prison houses: they are for a prey, and none delivereth; for a spoil, and none saith, Restore."

I also kept thinking of part of another verse where it says the people do not turn to him that is smiting them.

I found this in Isaiah also,

"For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts."

If people are constantly being told by their teachers to seek God for prosperity wealth, it's not likely they are going to seek Him to be restored to Him or for correction. Why would God be correcting them if He is trying to bless them and fill their pockets with wealth?

In this same passage it says,

"Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day. The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed."

Testimony

Has anyone studied the phenomenon of the laying of hands when people pass out from the anointing. I know in many instances people would speak in tongues when they received a baptism (But im not suggesting this always has to happen). I remember going to many a pentecostal meeting and falling over flat out and within a few weeks would be back to struggling with issues. The one time i could really point to genuine change was when i went to Mission To London and cerello said he would pass on the abrahamic blessing to any gentile present for £400 pounds (to which i ignorantly believed) everyone was happy everyone was believing that they were about to walk into "The abrahamic blessing" and for some reason nobody touched me and i started to weep uncontrollably i didnt understand at the time why i was weeping cause i was actually happy. Then it happened again a few years later in similar circumstances. The end result was i realized how wretched i was even as a so called christian and for the first time when i read the bible it came alive to me. I know you cant interpret the bible by personal experiences but for me the sign of the baptism has to be some kind of lasting change not just gifts of the spirit. Falling over only gave me bruises. But i know some people may have had hand layed on them and they may have had a totally different experience to me.

"Let the Bodies Hit The Floor"

I was talking to another Christian on a certain street corner this past weekened and a man stopped by that recognised both of us. We started talking and he began to relate how he had used to be a Christian but had fallen back. During the course of conversation he related more and more what appeared to be his strong dislike for the Church, but especially for 'mega churches'. He mentioned how his wife had become very involved in one of them, appearantly in ministry, 'with the bigshots' so to speak. If I understood him correctly he said she was now talking to herself and had perhaps become mentally ill.

I saw a very well known man speaking on the TV(I think it was the next day). I wanted to write something this week in response in order to help discern if a man that claims to be a prophet is preaching a mixed message, and began to, but could not find a place to continue.

This morning something came to me that I wrote down:

It is not enough for a man of God or someone who would call themselves a prophet, to preach against a few choice sins, to howl against lust for sex and yet to sanctify greed and the lust for money, calling it Divine blessing, and the right of every believing and obedient Christian is just as deadly as feeding people poison for sure.

A man of God will preach against the whole body of sin, he will spare not, neither will he set apart anything that is unholy(as an offering for worship), so that there will never be heard so much as the bleeting of sheep when he is through making war against sin.

As Christ was crucified so that the body of sin should be destroyed so the man of God will spare no sin in preaching and call nothing holy, which God has otherwise called unclean.

If your prophet has kept back anything for you that should have been devouted to the purifying fires of God, he is a snare to you and an enticement to the lusts which war against your soul and you should run for your life.