When will the Nightmare End??

I've heard of angel investors before, but Angels of Finances and International Banking? The way that these prophets are always begging for more loot, I kinda got the impression that celestial beings aren't very good at managing their money.

I guess it speaks of the state of a church so desperate for revival that we reach out for any spiritual experience we can get our hands on and call it a revival. Well we were warned this is the last days. The likes of bentley over time will become more sophisticated in deception.

If there is no fear of the lord in him and he is in error are we saying he is demonically inspired? If so how come so many supposedly spirit filled christian fall for his kind of leaven?

Too bad that an "angel of marital faithfulness" didn't appear to this guy before he cheated on his wife.

:-\\

Comptom wrote:
"but Angels of Finances and International Banking? The way that these prophets are always begging for more loot, I kinda got the impression that celestial beings aren't very good at managing their money." And others wrote something in a similar vein...(Edited for clarification)

Michael, I couldn't help but this struck me as funny, funny..

However, this did NOT strike me as funny: the video Neil posted. I only saw the first one and as I understand the scriptures this fellow is worse then crazy...sick? maybe. Deceived, no doubt...

How on earth did this guy get this way? Seems like anyone with one tiny grain of Spiritual sense would know better, but apparently not...oh my...

Shaking my head....

ginnyrose

It is because of these men that the way of truth is evil spoken of.

I am sick from this. They were preordained by the enemy to create a hatred for Jesus, and those that are His true disciples. These men do not love Jesus but openly mock Him. It would not surprise me if they are intentionally doing this to offend the Lord, and the saints, and laughing as others eat it right up.

I cannot remember his name off hand, but there is the man that later did acting that was raised to be an "evangelist" and knowingly duped multitudes out of money. He filmed a video biography showing himself in the hotel room counting his money that he had robbed from folks. Do you think we would have learned from these situations?

The reason Satan is raising up those to do this is to create intense persecution of the church, and yes, it's coming soon.

If these people do and say these sorts of things on camera and before the world, what happens behind closed doors?

The Word is what judges these people, not myself. We must be more jealous for our God's repution than to worry about offending men and women that blaspheme the One who's name is Holy.

I've stumbled on him about a year ago. I couldn't even watch the videos when I saw who they were about. I found one that had me in tears by the end. A room full of teenagers and young adults all laying on top of one another supposedly under the power of the Holy Spirit. Obviously the spirit is anything but holy. If you follow some of the similar videos you may find people taking holy ghost hits off of bibles, Charles Finney's grave, snorting holy ghost lines out of bibles and I wonder if I even should have described it. I haven't always been a disciple and I've spent my time in the drug lifestyle. I've spent more than my fair share of time at raves on party drugs. I can tell you from experience it is the same spirit at work in John Crowder and the rave scene. It is a fleshly delight and feels so right that it's impossible to think it's wrong. But there is a way that seems right to a man and in the end it leads to death. It's a lie and it he is leading himself and those kids to hell. He is satisfying their desire for drugs with the illusion that it's the holy spirit. Once that emotion wears off they are still going to want the feeling. When all their incantations don't work anymore they will turn again to drugs because that's the feeling they want.

Since we're on the topic. I found a guy on youtube yesterday by the name of Steven Anderson. I'm sure a few of you have heard of him. He's a split hair away from the "god hates fags" people.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-qr6gxIHhQ&feature=related]youtube\\[/url]

I heard a quote about false prophets being a judgment on people. It's almost too much to keep up with.

I think this guy is the same guy that got tazed and sprayed by Arizona state police for not getting out of his car when they requested. He set them up because he had a video camera in his car recording them. I'm all for the person's right to stay in the car but when you goad them into it... you'd have to see it to understand.

I don't know if false prophets are a judgment on people because the opposite side of that coin is when we're all doing good, there should be no false prophets but yet, there they are!! I don't know that's just my off the cuff opinion - not prayed over or thought over!!! (huge grin)

God bless you,

It is not going to end Krispy but it will grow worse as we are told in scriptures. For Evil men and seducercs will grow worse both deceiving and being deceived. It is sad but it is the way things have to be according to scripture.

We need to be ready to speak boldly by the Wisdom that we obtain out of our secret times with God. If there were ever a time that we need many Art Katzes its now. I trust that the Lord will raise up voices that will give a clear utterance as to how He assesses this growing scourge of backwards prophets and their backwards encounters.

My reaction to these videos? Other than sheer amazement that anyone can fall for this...?

My reaction is just to say straight is the gate and narrow is the way... and FEW are they that find it.

These guys need to keep looking.

I was reading this thread and watched some of those video's and felt like - it's TRULY beginning now, the division between the sheep and the goats has begun because they have been warned and if they didn't take that warning to heart then the blood is off anyone else's hands. All we can do is weep between the porch and altar.

Please read these verses and notice who Jesus prays for and who he doesn't pray for. See also what he prays for in the lives of his sheep. notice he makes mention that the father had given him these sheep (Romans 9) We see many instances where Jesus prayed for the sheep, but were are those places he prayed for the goats? Why didn't he pray for Judas he knew Judas would hang himself why didn't he pray for Judas to turn from his evil ways (could it be that Judas like many a modern day false prophet might be doomed to destruction to fufill i higher purpose for God?)

John 16 6-19
"6 I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8 For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10 All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13 I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it. 17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified."

ps: only God can work out how to give Christ sheep (election / Sovereignty) without violating their free will oh what a great mystery.

I think this guy is the same guy that got tazed and sprayed by Arizona state police for not getting out of his car when they requested.

They are one and the same. The whole ordeal is politicized and shameful. It has nothing to do with the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Let us share with an attitude of love and not one of anger and condemnation to each other. If we are reacting angrily to comments within a internet forum then it is not the deceived we should be praying for but ourselves. Paul rebuked peter for his hypocrisy and peter being a man filled with the holy spirit yielded to his rebuke as he knew he was speaking the truth. Let us also have humility in our hearts often amongst our circle of influence we might be esteemed by man but when faced with the two edged sword of the word we realize we may not know as much as we think and we lash out at whatever truth we are confronted with as we are unable to yield to the voice of the spirit. Let us seek the lord before we post and not speak out of context and in malice.

What i was trying to get across is this

1 though God is indeed sovereign he does not violate our free will. We can accept or reject his grace. Even though he makes some of us vessels of glory and others of wrath. yet he remains sovereign this is the mystery i was alluding to. (Romans 9)

2 Praying out of Gods will is to pray amiss. God can do all things indeed, i would like to be another 4 inches taller (even though im 6ft1 lol), i would like to be 20 pounds lighter and i can indeed pray for these things but my prayers should always be inline with Gods revealed will which is in his word. Any prayers outside his word is not likely to be answered. We are told to witness to the lost and part of this will obviously involve prayer i indeed agree but "faith cometh hearing and hearing by the word" Romans 10:17 (The Word + Holy Spirit = Conviction)

3: John 17 : Jesus says he does not pray for the world (Why? could it be this would be a futile prayer) but only for his sheep. Yet he paid the price for humanity John 3:16. Like i said why didn't Jesus pray for the entire world knowing it is not the will of the father that any should perish? If its not his will why will many perish

4:Myles monroe(another questionable teacher) said prayer is man giving God permission to act on earth. Allot of Word of faith (i was one myself) believers think God needs our permission to act. The question would be then whose permission did he form you with before you were born because before we were even formed in the womb he knew us , he called us and had a purpose for us. We can pray for the whole entire world to be saved but but it wont happen if it is not the expressed will of God. I know the whole world will not be saved because this is revealed in the bible. I know that false prophets and goats will go to hell because this is revealed also. So i do not pray for them as that is to pray amiss. I know however there are a few sheep mingled innocently amongst the goats and these are the ones I do pray and intercede for.

5: Let us seek God diligently as we are promised that if we do we will find him. In the olden days in africa they would carve out a false god out of stone. The devil has moved on and is more advanced now he has men carve out a false jehova from false theology and opinions based on the rudiments of this world.

Testimony:
I used to be a pentecostal word of faith believer. I really wanted to be financially rich so i could pay for the gospel (or false teachers new plane not sure) we had holy prayer meetings once a month. I really wanted to know God and get rich lol but as weeks and years went by "praying" with hundreds of people around me screaming in tongues i asked God a simple question in my heart "Lord why do we meet up once a month and why is the focus always money" from that moment i believe i received a genuine in filling as my heart changed from being self seeking to a heart for Christ. I was a sheep amongst goats and nobody came to me to tell me the truth the lord was able via his holy ghost save me all by himself i knew his voice and i could hear him calling me out of were i was into truth. So ultimately i believe that the true sheep will always hear his voice but goats by nature of their DNA are goats because they were created so. You ask why does he yet judge us and find fault when he created us to be sheep or goats but who are we to answer back to him shall we who are clay say to the potter why have you made us so?

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. The truth is absolute. While there may be various interpretations or perceptions of it is absolute my its very nature.

Father use us all for you glorious gospel. Opinions mean nothing unless they are your opinions. Reveal your opinions to us though your precious holy spirit and your word. Let your word sanctify your sheep and remove us from a world of false religion and worldliness.

Amen

Brother may God bless you your post has really blessed me.

I looked at those John Crowder video's... or started to. Didn't get very far.

The only reason these men are still on their feet (instead of being packed out by them) is because the glory of God is not in our midst... yet.

Look what happened to Ananias and Sapphira. Or Nadab and Abihu when the Glory was present.

So if we want to see the end of this kind of sham and mockery of the Name of Jesus, it's for us to seek Him as to what He requires of US for His glory to return.

ADisciple, I am now listening to one of Art Katz's sermons, " Making The Part Stand For The Whole". It is exactly about the situation of Ananias and Sapphira and the great fear that gripped not only the church but all else around them.

We are not there yet, but there will be a holy remnant and they will once again walk in that manner. It can't be like any other "revival". It must mirror the book of Acts or we will have failed our mission.

How heartbreaking it is to know that these sort of men and women have no fear of being exposed because we have settled for less than what God set for a very example. We must line up to His requirements, and should be greatly ashamed that we have made every excuse as to why that sort of fear of God and fear of His people has disappeared.

If you are being tried by significant trials and chastenings, praise God, He is refining you and bringing you into alignment with His Word.

What sort of a lesson did those young men learn the day they carried out the bodies of that husband and wife? I'll bet you they were searching their hearts and and begging the Lord to keep them pure. It says "great fear" was upon ALL.

When these things happen again, it will not take long for order to be restored in church. Praise God He is patient with us!

Very good word, Kathleen.

Isaiah said, "The fear of the LORD is His treasure" (Isa. 33.6).

How poor we are without that treasure.

And again Isaiah cried, "Why hast Thou made us to err from Thy ways, and hardened our hearts from Thy fear? RETURN, for Thy servants' sake, the tribes of Thine inheritance" (Isa. 63.17).

Oh, for the return of the Fear of the LORD into our midst! I like what you said about those young men who packed out Ananias and Sapphira. I am sure they were trembling.

In fact in those days "no man dared join himself to them"... only those whose hearts were truly genuine.

why that sort of fear of God and fear of His people has disappeared

That struck me as well. The fear of God and of His people.

Nobody fears Christians anymore.

But Moses prophesied, "And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD, and they shall be afraid of thee" (Dt. 28.10).

When His fear is in us, others will be afraid of us because of that Presence.

Brother Natan4Jesus, please let me clarify my words. I am far from violent or bloodthirsty in any sense. I have been criticized often because of my passive view and hate for killing.

When the people were afraid to join themselves to the disciples as in Acts, it was because they feared the Lord Jesus in them. They knew that the resurrected Saviour, the Spirit of Truth, was in them. Their reason for wanting to destroy the saints was to wipe out the very presence of God.

I apologize if I gave that impression, I simply know that when the Lord's people begin to be used by God, great fear will fall upon the masses.

When true servants of the Lord were present, people feared them because they were vessels of God and they knew it. They spoke a word, and it came to pass; unlike the "prophets" of this day.

There will be no pride in this either, for the Lord's people will possess the greatest of fear for their King, and the utmost humility and meekness.

I pray this has been written clearly.

Oh yes, and most importantly, may we be the true light that will turn the Jews back to their God in these troublesome times.

I guess i can kinda understand what you are implying. for instance the glory of God was so strong on the face of mosses that the Israelite could not behold his face directly.

2 Co 3 7-18

" 7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect[a] the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."

I think we can learn a great example from Jesus as he Glorified the Father. The Holy Spirit Glorifies the Son and the father glorifies the Son. I do not personally wish for men to glorify in me but to glorify the spirit of God that is working in me. To God be all the glory. Let me tremble before our God. The bible says something about Jesus not being desirable to look at and not being esteemed of men. A sinless holy ghost filled God incarnate walked amongst us and we esteemed him not. Paul was nothing to look at either, neither was he feared.

The point i am making is that one of the external ministries of the holy spirit is to convict the world of sin of righteousness and judgment. Peter filled with the holy spirit preaches and 3 thousand or so gave their lives not be cause they feared peter but because they were gripped with fear when the holy spirit via the words of peter made them no how wretched and condemned they were without Christ in fear of God they cried out and asked what they must do to be saved. I wont say we need a revival as such. We are crying for extra biblical manifestations because we don't really live lives of total biblical inerrancy. We all want to see God move in our churches like he once did but are we ready to pay the price.

1. Are we willing to die for the gospel. We brandish the word love out of context when it suites our theological needs but the bible says there is no great love to lay down our lives for a friend. Do we have this kind of love within us because the apostles did.

2. Are we willing to die to self. Will be obey the spirit 100% and do what ever he tells us to do. Go where he leads us to go. Quit our jobs and western comfort if he says so.

3. God is love and he is also holy and just. David who God described as "a man after my own heart" said

Psalm 119:104
"I gain understanding from your precepts;therefore I hate every wrong path."
Can we say we love God and embrace evil theology and label this love because we care more about human emotions of people than contending for the faith. What we label love is an abominable to the lord.

4. The word of God is truth. We can not accept and reject any of it based on our experience or lack of faith or spiritual maturity.
Hosea 4:6-7
"my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.Because you have rejected knowledge,I also reject you as my priests;because you have ignored the law of your God,I also will ignore your children."

Gods people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Why? because they have rejected his truth. How have we rejected his truth in our lives. Do we reject holiness because we do not want to live holy lives and still want to fornicate with the world? Do we reject sanctification because we are too lazy to bother to read the word of God for ourselves. So we carve out a God based on vague ideas and precepts we have of him.

We cant keep on crying for revival when what we need is reformation. Lets do what he tells us to do lets reject this God of humanism and mammon the modern church worships and go back to the lord humble and broken and desperate for every precept that comes out his mouth so we can obey them. Please read the entire book of psalm 119 when we come back to him we wont have to ask for his power or revival

Do We err because we do not know the scriptures nor the power of God?

Which comes first revival or reformation, people can reform but only God can revive.

What do we want reformation or revival. What is reformation how is it related to revival.

"Which comes first revival or reformation, people can reform but only God can revive." that's a very good question that we don't often consider. I suspect you already have an answer to your own question but here is what i think.....

The power of God is with us now on earth this very moment. The ministry of the holy spirit has not in anyway changed. Ask yourself if the world needs convicting of sin righteousness and judgment if yes then then the same power is still on earth. if we are filled with his Holy Spirit. This Infilling gives us the power to change from our sinful nature so in a sense it reforms / changes us till we are like Christ. The question is if God never changes and the holy spirit is God and we have the holy spirit then it is not God that needs to change or do something new it is us that needs to repent and comeback to him. When we are saved and filled with the holy spirit our dead spirits are quickened and so at that point we are revived. But after this initial state of being spiritually revived we must yield to the ongoing process of the holy spirit reforming and changing us to be as Christ. We can easily reject this work of the Holy Spirit and end up being fruitless and powerless and then we cry out for God to revive us. But when he revives us what will happen if we reject his workmanship on us again? How many times will he have to "revive" us? Its like me eating fried food for dinner everyday and when my health deteriorates and i have a heart attack and i am dying then the doctors use a defibrillator to revive me after i flat line. If i go back to the same lifestyle i had before being admitted and don't reform my lifestyle that lead me to the deathbed can i really go on living a life dependent on being shocked back into life or do i need to change everything about my physical life that leads to death. We are revived when we give our life and are filled with the holy spirit but we have have a responsibility to seek God and righteousness and let the holy spirit regenerate us.

Quote
"Which comes first revival or reformation, people can reform but only God can revive."

brother revival comes first and when we yield to the work of the holy spirit we become yielded to the reformative work of his transformation. But if we deny this power of regeneration and change then we will be in a constant need of "Revival"

Whether as a church we need reformation or revival one thing is certain we are in desperate need of the Holy Spirit. Maybe the outward manifestation of the spirit is less in our day because as a church there is more work to be done inwardly. We should focus a little more on the inside of the cup that the outside.

Got it brother. I just want you to elaborate so that those who
don't diligently read 'between the lines' may not get confused.

You spoke it well, "we are in desperate need of the Holy Spirit".

So please, i beg both your's and ADisciple's forgiveness on my misread, or any hasty words from my keyboard.

I took no offence, dear brother. And the way Kathleen responded to your concern mirrors my own view as well.

To have that certain "Something" in your life that causes men to fear you... this is greatly to be desired. But be sure of it, the Lord is only going to vouchsafe that kind of Presence to those who have the heart and character of The Lamb.

It's quite something that we read of an hour when men cry out to the mountains and rocks to hide them "from the face of Him that sitteth upon the throne..." Where do they see that Face, but in His people? And it's the Lamb in them that men see, and fear. "Hide us from the face of Him that sitteth upon the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb" (Rev. 6.16).

I just say... THIS is the kind of Christian God is intent on bringing forth and revealing in the earth... not the weak, powerless, kind that we have become. We are no threat to the world... to the kingdom of darkness, I mean. But I tell you, as we come before our Lord in deep repentance and brokenness about our wretched condition, He is going to transform us into the kind of Man that is feared in the earth... to the praise of His glory.

You will have to forgive me. But i not sure i quite understand what you are saying. I am a mere babe in the gospel and i am absolutely nothing in-of myself. Having just been delivered from false theology i have learned to examine everything in light of the scriptures so i will need a little help trying to understand what you mean by men should fear us as Christians. I think we as a church we have gone cold but i don't think we are powerless just a little to dormant.

Questions
1. What scriptural references are there in the new testaments in which Christ or any apostles tell us we are to be feared of men. What i mean by this is a clear teaching in the new testaments that exhorts this as opposed something we infer from narrative.

2. Christ promises his church great trials and tribulations and hatred for all of God true people. How can this be possible if the world fears the church? The world seems in light of the scriptures to be more likely to hate us than fear us this seems to be what Christ teaches.

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, "by scripture alone") is the doctrine that the Bible is the only infallible and inerrant authority for Christian faith, and that it contains all knowledge necessary for salvation and holiness. Consequently, sola scriptura demands that only those doctrines are to be admitted or confessed that are found directly within or indirectly by using valid logical deduction or valid deductive reasoning from scripture. wiki

4. Have you examined your belief that men should be feared by extensively examining the scriptures if so what was your scriptural findings.

I'm asking these question as i believe as "believers" our beliefs and theology should be based on scripture and what has be expressed and inspired of Gods spirit and written down for our benefit otherwise the church will get worse. For example God clearly says

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Now if i tell people that God is "Love" and that idolaters are welcome as we are all sinners and the idolaters feel accommodate by my brand of gospel and feel no need to repent because God is love it is not the Gospel i have preached to them but myself.

I feel impressed to warn of the dangers of not studying Gods words and forming opinion of matters of theology that are not inline with what God has expressed in his written word.

either way i want to know the truth and if you have information to help me understand better its welcome. I apologize for not being able to readily understand this doctrine of "men fearing the church" as it is opposed to the ministry of suffering and persecution caused by a world that hates us and God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom it is who must fear God. The world can only hate him because it is foolish.
As i said earlier im only trying to understand better so please elaborate further based on scripture.

God bless

part of my grief IS rooted in the terrible fact that todd bentley's or john crowder can ravage around so blatantly, blithely, playing games with the Deep Things of God.

This is something that has been bugging me lately as well, although in the light of politics. It seems you hear political speeches from pulpits more than you hear discernment sermons. We rail against our government and protest and rah-rah the military, and sign petitions and on and on, and yet guys like these pollute and undermine all that really matters, Truth.

I'm beginning to come to the conclusion, if I already haven't, that a Christian has no business in politics unless God has called them to that place. It's kind of mind boggling that we think we know what's best for the world when our own churches are dying. We will "support our troops", who are our own christian sons and daughters, while they go off to fight in the world's wars for the world's way of life. Then we tell them to be REAL sure that God has really called them to the mission field. More of our Christian kids are dying for a rotten world's kingdom than for God's kingdom and somehow that's ok. I'm not saying that a christian can't take part in the military or politics ever, but I think they should be called to that. We're so worried about the big things that the little things are killing us.

i will need a little help trying to understand what you mean by men should fear us as Christians.

Perhaps you overlooked the earlier post in which it was pointed out that as a result of what happened to Ananias and Sapphira, "great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things" (Acts 5.11).

Of course it was the fear of God. But God was dwelling in the church. Those men, therefore, were feared.

Jesus delivered the demon-possessed man in the country of the Gadarenes, and when they saw this man clothed and in his right mind, "they were afraid" (Mk. 5.15). And they besought Jesus to go elsewhere; He was ruining their economy.

But that's Jesus, you say. Yes, but that same Jesus is supposed to be dwelling in us by His Holy Spirit, is He not?

Godly men have always been feared by their enemies. I recall reading in the Journal of George Fox (the early Quaker apostle) how men-- if their hearts were not right with God-- they feared and trembled when he came around. There was such a Presence about him; fearfulness surprised the hypocrites.

The original question on this thread was, When will this nightmare cease? (The nightmare of all these abominations being done by men brazenly claiming it's Jesus doing these things.) The nightmare will cease when the Lord comes suddenly to His Temple like a refiner's fire and fuller's soap, and cleanses and purifies... "And I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, etc." (Mal. 3.5).

WE are that Temple! And when the Lord is in His Holy Temple, be sure of it: it will strike fear into the hearts of men.

Based on the examples you gave me it was a fear of the lord that came upon the church and in context of the thread you are right if you say that these men have no fear of the lord i agree 100% but do we? In context of this thread yes the fear of the lord needs to comeback 1000%. But with all elijah did the jezebel still defied him. with all jesus did men still crucified him, with all samson did they still shaved him bald, with all mosses did the isrealites still carved up a golden calf to worship. In fact when we look at Gods own elect isreal from naratives of the old testament it doesnt matter what great manisfestation of great power and signs and wonders God showed them they always turned back to idols. if the elect did this do we expect any different from the world? I agree with you that you that God is to be feared by those who love him but the likes of Bentley are demonically inspired. But like i re-iterate it is not men that should be feared but God. Remember in the case of ananias it wasnt peter he lied to but the holy spirit and like we know "he dead" people being next to a great man of God an falling and weeping for there sins is simply the holy spirit convicting then as jesus said he would in john 16. It is God that is to be feared and it is God that is to be glorified we are just clay hosting a great heavenly treasure.

Paul said in the last days these wolves would come in and not spare the flock. bentley is just awolve fulfilling a devine sovereign purpose. even satan has his purpose. I believe that God has allow these demons to infilltrate the church so he can in the last days indeed raise a holy reminant that will walk in the fear of the lord.

The lord will return absoultely but i believe that if we apply a sound hermaneutic approach and interprete the old testament in light of the new testament. Then the judgement spoken about must be refering to the judgement of our lord when he returns in glory.

Let us all as a church fear God. Lets us realise that the likes of bentley have been prophesied about in the bible and are fulfilling scripture. And finally we should not let our experiences of that of any great man of God interpret the scriptures but we musts let the scripture interprete our experiences.

Oh, most certainly there is no harm brother Neil. I'm always so cautious myself about offending, sounding too harsh, etc. so I completely understand and I do enjoy your posts.

I think we all somehow are in shock as too the depths of evil the world has sunken into. What scares me is how much worse it will get, and that is what causes me to cry out for Him to keep me in line myself.

Much peace to you, Kathleen

Thanks for your post i am rather confused because you are judging me without really knowing me. I will be the first to examine myself. But i must say that it is premature to judge so sharply not knowing me in person. If all christians believed the same theology and interpretation of scripture the same way we would not have so many denominations and certainly would not have a forum in which we discuss our different theology. When i said we need the holy spirit it was not meant to be an indictment on every single christian here i was alluding to the fact that the holy spirit is one of the most wonderful blessings God can give us (If you knew me in person you would know this) but you see indictment were there is only a yearning and love for the person of the holy spirit. I didn't think anyone was condemning me neither was i condemning anyone myself. If my tone has been perceived as arrogance or pride or being puffed up then you must all forgive me as this was not my intention (im naturally a quiet person, except in matters of the gospel). In these kind of forums i would rather be a judge of content i read than judge the man behind a computer writing.

"You confuse extreme prejudice for anger, malice, and condemnation." was it the holy spirit that told you this about me? I have been called the Anti Christ by people i know for 10 years because i refuted the prosperity gospel. I do not pray? Well i wont respond ill leave that to God. i know people who have been studying for 30 years and are forever studying but never able to come to conclusion of the truth and brother im sure you are indeed a masterful theologian and maybe you have had a couple of encounters with people over the years but as i am new here wouldn't it not be wiser to pray to discern what spirit i have before judging. Reading my post and assuming you know me is premature and judging a thing before its time.

I think you will not understand what im saying in my posts if you don't understand me because you will rush into conclusions some people on here might ask a question they may already have an answer too at the prompting of the holy ghost so if i rushed in an judged them based on the post it could be quite easy to see things from the vanity of my imagination having not really heard from God(the heart is such a deceitful thing). I think im guilty of that myself. If you actually read my post you will see that i pointed to Romans 9, what i believe is not that God doesn't violate free will but that he is sovereign and yet we have free will (because i quote Romans 9 doesn't mean im a calvinst because im not). T thank God for all the great writters but its is the words of christ that will lead me to truth. If you know me then you know im not calvinist but if you infer from text you see things your mind want to see. Rather than appoint ourselves judge jury and executioner why not pose your concerns in the guise of questions that edify? aren't we here to edify? I dont read the bible to get a PHD in theology and become a pharisee absolutely not. Do i understand everything absolutely not, but do i love Gods word absolutely. Saying nobody should post any view unless they have read all the books on your shelf just smacks of pride to me. It is for God to judge who is a babe and who is mature amongst us. The Pharisees could quote entire books verbatim yet they till rejected christ. Me having information without revelation profits me nothing.

The underlying point of my posts on this thread is that God is sovereign and has a purpose for all things even if we dont understand them. Does that mean we should not pray? obviously not, should i pray for false teachers? I simply was alluding to the fact of doing what i am instructed to do primarily regarding them. If have done primarily what i am instructed to do there is no issue with praying for the likes of Bentley if i choose to if i still believe God can do the impossible and show mercy to whoever he chooses to.

We all know all the books that talk about dealing with false prophets from 2 peter, 1 tim, 2 tim etc and some may have different revelations of what we think God is saying but i will leave with this.

2 Timothy 2:22-26

22 Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. 24 And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. 25 Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 26 and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.

Apologies to anyone i have offended by any of my posts. If my writing style has offended i will examine future post before posting with a view to making sure what i write is clear in love and edifying.

Phanetheus if i have upset you then please accept my apologies.

ps: i will stop listening to paul washer as i think his tone might be creeping into my posts lol

I dropped out of my Bible Study because the Teacher there started promoting Matthew Stephen on the Bible Studies Website. Right or wrong, from what I have learned about Matthew Stephen, I personally did not want to be a part of people that promote him. Now, if he dips his cane into the waters off Florida and the waters rise up to cover Florida from the Atlantic and the Gulf of Mexico I may go back.

It won't! not until the end of time.
False prophets and apostles have always been around and always will! Even the Apostle Paul and the early church had their battles and upsets with such people.

I was stunned one night about 3 weeks ago when my husband shouted me downstairs to watch something coming up on the TV - on came a programme about John Crowder doing meetings in Barry, South Wales, called 'Sloshfest 2010' I was stunned at what I saw, my husband was shouting at the telly!!
I was ashamed that this horrendous stuff was being shown on our British television.

After watching this I sat with a heavy heart and said "Lord, why? - why are so many people falling for stuff like this, why are people falling headlong into such obvious deception - Why Lord?"

I then flicked through TV channels and came across an old episode of a popular british quiz show, so I paused on it. To my amazement a question came up about 'sheep and goats' as I've already done a Bible study into this, my ears pricked up at this question - how do sheep and goats react when under attack from a wolf or any other enemy like this? - after a lot of deliberating among the panel, the question master, who is known as a hive of interesting information, started to explain - I was amazed at what he said!
He explained that when under attack the goat will 'swoon' and go into a 'faint' and fall as one dead, becoming easy prey to the enemy - "quite literally" he said, "the goat will FALL for the enemy - while the sheep go running!"
I could see it so clearly!

The Lord immediately spoke so clear and loud to me and said - "They are already goats! They are already goats! - MY sheep know MY voice - they KNOW my voice - and will run from anything else!"

This was such an eye-opener and a release for my spirit. All we are doing is identifying who the 'goats' and 'wolves' are.

My husband came across a verse that no-one we spoke to had ever noticed before, yet it is in a chapter we read so regularly, as it is linked with the Lord's supper.
1 Corinthians 11 v 18-19 "For in the first place, when you assemble as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you; and I partly believe it, FOR THERE MUST BE FACTIONS AMONG YOU IN ORDER THAT THOSE WHO ARE GENUINE AMONG YOU MAY BE RECOGNISED.!!

This is what is happening today in our churches - as the harvest draws nearer the tares are being seen for what they are. we've already been warned in God's this will be the case.

Yes Natan4Jesus - what we saw on TV was them instead of being 'drunk in the Spirit' they are 'toped by the Ghost'!! it is all drugs lingo.
As they pray for people they stick a finger into their necks as if injecting, they snort from a cross as in taking cocaine the worst is mixing names of God with names of drugs - my hubby was shouting at the telly!!

You are absolutely right if you cross them you are lableed a pharisee! we've had that one!