Thoughts

Hi
A friend of mine sent this to me. It is a part of a teaching titled committing spiritual suicide. This was the first thing listed on how to commit spiritual suicide. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ellie

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1) Maintain ties—unchallenged and unbroken relationships with children of the devil. (“Children of the devil” is the description that the Bible, and God call those who have not given Jesus ownership of their lives and become washed in His Blood in a second birth.) Let these relationships lie dormant, or boldly fellowship with the unregenerate, non-disciples of Jesus in your family, your workplace, your past, your neighborhood, or other stomping ground. Either way, whether you pursue the relationships or just keep them on hold in the background, if you want to commit spiritual suicide, leave the doors open to embrace them as if they are the same as you, and part of you. Let it be “okay” with you to open your heart and affections to them. Have fond memories of them, and the things you did or could do with those that have not bowed before Jesus. Maintain heart ties with unbelievers. Thus saith the lord of darkness.

It sounds evil to me. Why in the world would I want to read anything that is from the mouth of satan?

I wish there had been a warning in the subject line - now I feel like I need to take a bath. Yecht.

Thank God I am bathed in the Blood of Jesus.

white stone

What strikes me regarding this post is the assumption that spiritual life in Christ is ours to kill. It's as though we are so vulnerable as to need to worry about our relationships with the unsaved. While it's true that we need to watch what we do and say for the sake of the Lord of Glory, and the witness to the lost, I find that the Lord's hold on me is stronger than the pull of the world. "And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."

Like every other lie satan hands to the world, he picks on the mentally saved. You won't find him wasting a lot of time with this kind of trickery when it comes to the children of God. No. With the saved of God, satan turns to serious and more obvious attacks.

You can't sneek up on someone who wears a proximity alarm around their neck. You have to be far more agressive if you're intent in taking him out.

By His Grace.

White stone I think you misunderstood the post, it was meant as a warning to me about being with or maintaining ties with those who are not saved. It was speaking about the dangers of being around family, old friends, coworkers who are not saved and how for a christian that might be a real issue. The portion was saying that the enemy wants us to be deceived into thinking we can still walk with Jesus and maintain these relationship with those who are not saved.

Not sure why you would need to take a bath but sorry if you were offended. It was not meant to offend anyone. It was sent to me and I just wanted some outside thoughts because I do still have relationship with family and friends who are not saved who are using relationship ties to influence me in my marriage. Just wondering if I need to rethink some of these things.

ellie

edited for clarification

Ellie, I agree with this post.

There is such a thing as being kind to the ungodly and there is such a thing as opening yourself, your mind to them and in the process allow them to influence you. As I understand this piece, this is what the warning is all about.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

buttermilk wrote:What strikes me regarding this post is the assumption that spiritual life in Christ is ours to kill
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I do know of some who I thought were strong in Christ and on fire for the Lord who have completely turned their back on God and are now living in the world. I don't know if our spiritual life is ours to kill or not but I don't see Jesus chasing people down and forcing them to live or obey Him daily either, does seem that we have a choice. Anyway don't want to get off my own topic:)

As I said I was just thinking maybe there are some relationships that do hinder my walk with the Lord and I need to consider that? Its easy to get caught up in family things and there can be real issues when most if not all of those family members are not saved.

Thanks for your thoughts buttermilk80. I am grateful

ellie

Ginnyrose wrote:There is such a thing as being kind to the ungodly and there is such a thing as opening yourself, your mind to them and in the process allow them to influence you. As I understand this piece, this is what the warning is all about.
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that was what I was seeing from it as well. I do think with my sisters and my mom I have been allowing influence in my life that is opening me up to the things of this world. The more I read through this the more I see it as a timely warning from the Lord...

Thank you ginnyrose:) good to hear from you too by the way:)

in Him
ellie

Ellie, a scripture comes to my mind: Psalm 1:1. This scripture notes a progression:

1. The wicked counsel you. (They teach you how to think.)

2. You socialize with them.

AND then - you become scornful.

And that is why one needs to be careful what influences you allow in your life. What mags do I read? What talk shows do I listen to? What books do I read? etc....

Simple, isn't it?

ginnyrose

I understand this article, I think, because as much as I love my mother, anytime I use her advice for whatever reason, it usually goes to the dogs! Listen and read on dear reader! My mother has been a very successful woman and what I mean by, “going to the dogs” has nothing to do with her advice but it has everything to do with “ME” and how “I” choose to follow advice from someone else RATHER THAN seeking the Lord.

To me, the earthly relationships and influences that I chose to follow is [b]THAT PART[/b] which I must learn to hate, as Jesus calls it, not my physical mother.

Boy, I hope I am conveying my heart here and that this is readable as well as understandable because I am in no way speaking or thinking evil of my mother and not honoring her; and I hope that comes across in this. Please let me know if it hasn't. (edit) Writing this, I do not mean to imply that my mother is unsaved, which she isn't!(unedit)

God bless you,

Phanetheus wrote: If there is such a thing as a carnal christian, there must also be a christian devil.

Is this belief the Lordship view or something or other like that? This is nothing personal towards you, Phan, but in my humble opinion, the sentence above is pure baloney straight from the butcher’s shop!! (huge grin) And I’m not trying to start a fight with you! I guess we just read and interpret our Bibles differently.

How am I so sure there are carnal Christians? I was carnal Christian for years and I know beyond a shadow of doubt that I was saved. I would have been devastated to have died during that time; it’s the Lord compassion’s that we are not consumed!

While I was a carnal Christian, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit, spoke in other tongues and I started out well but who did I let hinder me? A man entered the picture and I began living according to the flesh.

It’s ONLY the compassion of the Lord I was not consumed and still not consumed because I still fail at times (on different things), I do not wake up and say, “I’m going to cuss today.” But some days it happens! I must and do repent if and when it does.

Maybe I’m wrong but to me the entire Bible is about letting go of our fleshly nature and taking on His nature. “You did run well; who hindered you that you should not obey the truth?” (Gal 5.7) speaks directly to carnal Christians who started out well but in the end didn’t obey the truth. And “brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you who are spiritual, restore him in a spirit of meekness lest you also be tempted.” (Gal 6.1) And also, the Spirit and flesh “are contrary to one another, so that you cannot do the things that you would.” (Gal 5.17)

The verses in Gal 5, 19 through 21 speaks of the works of the flesh that God wants to deliver each one of us from; but will we let Him? The Word of God doesn’t say, “We’re not saved” if we do these things but we are warned that “they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

I don’t know, it just tells me that He will strive with us while there is time but if we PERSIST in “receiving not the love of the truth,” we will indeed hear, “Depart from me, I know ye not.”

Just my two cents on the subject! God bless you Phane!

You wondered why I mentioned needing a bath. It is because the text you posted did not measure up to the instructions given below.

Philippians 4:
8 Finally, brethren,
whatsoever things are true,
whatsoever things are honest,
whatsoever things are just,
whatsoever things are pure,
whatsoever things are lovely,
whatsoever things are of good report;
if there be any virtue,
and if there be any praise,
think on these things.

9 Those things,
which ye have both learned,
and received,
and heard,
and seen in me,
do:
and the God of peace shall be with you.

There are people from my past that I remember with fondness, not a longing to reestablish the former relationship but with the hope for their salvation, whether I meet them again in this life, or not. Family members that are unsaved are still my family members, I would not turn them away if they were in need and I had the means to help. If we are to Good Samaritan's, I do not think we should be judging those we help. At the same time, we are not to cast pearls before swine. Help, yes - party, no.

I remember the anguish expressed by a Sister here, when confronted with her dying Father and his request that she visit him. Even though the Father expressed no remorse for any harm caused by him, she was encouraged to visit and forgive. This text you posted does not have forgiveness in it, that I can see and that is where the filthiness comes from.

It is my belief that reading 'anything' outside of God's Word is risky business and must be prayed about before accepting. I do think that if the Spirit turns me away I would be reading at my own risk should I continue. This is not to say I do not read other works, I just consider the source.

white stone

So I feel and am convicted that in only posting a portion of this warning that was shared with me I have done it an injustice. For that I am sorry and say so publicly to the person who in love shared it with me.

Thank you to those who understood what I was asking about. Honestly some of the replies that have been given by others I don't even understand, so I will read them again and pray over them. MY main reason for posting and asking was because a loving sister in Christ was warning me, she told me she has seen me pulling away from my husband(to the point I have been thinking of not moving back in with him) and some family in the body of believers because I was allowing my mother(who is not saved) and sisters to give me counsel and advice. I have been spending to much time with them and unsaved family out of fear of loosing contact with them(I see that now)and also out of fear of what lays ahead.

The warning was not in my understanding about not caring for or helping family when in need, it was a warning to me that if I continue to allow the counsel and influence of my unsaved family and friends, I "will" loose my marriage and I could end up walking away from the Lord. Spiritual suicide.

I asked for thoughts because I see now that I was still sitting on the fence, I wanted a way out, and I wanted a reason to listen to those who tell me not to be with my husband and not to go "Over board" with this Jesus stuff. In dealing with some issues in my life I wanted reasons to put Jesus second and be ok with it...

This is a time for much reflection and prayer that I need to be in.

in Him
ellie

Phanetheus:
Whether you want some advice or not, here it is:

Take the first post you made for this thread, click the edit button, go down below the area where you type text.
Do you see those two buttons. One says 'Submit' and the other says 'Cancel Post'. Click on your choice.

These things ought not be. Don't take part in any of it... and that means even repeating it.
____________________________

So may I ask you then would your advice be that this warning is not from the Lord.You feel as if I am repeating something that is not from the Lord? So then would your advice be that I should continue to have contact, spend time with and listen to the advice of unsaved family and friends even when their advice is that I should divorce my husband and not go over board with this whole Jesus stuff?? So I should continue to be around them while they tear down my husband just because they are family or old long time friends? even if these same unsaved loved ones put so much guilt and pressure on me to divorce, they use manipulation to cause me to stumble...? Do you not feel there is ever a time when a person may have to cut off contact with a family member or friend in order to walk with Jesus and put HIM first??

I realize that in my first post I did not mention some of these things in as much detail but in my response to white stone on page one I did speak to this? I did again in my response to Ginnyrose also on page one...Did you read either of these before you responded to me??? Just trying to understand what is being said here?

in Him
ellie

Ellie
I understand what was being shared with you
and I would consider it a warning from the
Lord. Yes Jesus must come first in our life and
yes He must be given complete control of
all the relationships in our life. This does mean
sometimes that you will have to walk away
and break off contact some times. If your mother
constant attacks cause you to doubt
what the Lord has shown you then you
must leave her. I will writemore later.
Fallow the Lord and put Him first.

God bless
mj

All day long a phrase has been going through my mind. I had forgotten which post it had come from until I re-read this thread. The phrase is "mentally saved". Such a powerful picture that draws. Those would be the tares. And how curious it was that the Lord said to leave them where they were lest in the up rooting of them, you up root the wheat also. For those who appear to be "on fire" for the Lord and then just walk away at some point, John said this: "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1 John 2:19)

I am personally convinced that if we belong to Jesus there will be an assurance we can trust. If we are simply going through the motions it will eventually show. We read this: "No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8: 37-39)

What we are debating here is something that we are not allowed to know fully while we are this body. Yet by faith we take hold of Him who took hold of us. There is great and unspeakable joy in debating this issue from the perspective of one who knows he is in the hand of Jesus. There would be little joy, and perhaps an argument if this were debated by a mentally saved bunch.

By His Grace.

Ellie,

I sent you a pm.

God bless!

Ellie,

Perhaps this will bring you to reflect on the importance of being upfront and direct in your posts (translate that to mean open and honest - without guile). Holding back facts and revealing them after opinions have been offered only serves to make void all counseling you receive. For one, I know my post would have been different.

You sign your posts, "in Him," are you? If so, why are you listening to others?

What part of, "forsaking all others," is hard for you to understand. Go back to your husband, if he will have you, and flee any other entanglements. Move where you will only have each other for company and adjust yourself to fit his ways, providing he is following Jesus as you said before. Get rid of the computer, the TV, magazines & movies. Then as you grow up you will grow together, as God intends.

Time is so short until His return, I feel next to our Risen Lord is the only safe place to be. Let the dead bury their dead.

Regarding the original text you posted, you did misrepresent it. As a warning, I can understand it but being out of context changed the meaning in my eyes. Still, that said, I would not choose to read any more from that writer. It still is evil at it's base.

WS

So just to be clear... I did apologies for the first post being out of context once before, and I will do it again
This whole thread was my fault for the misunderstanding and mis-communication I do take responsibility for that and again apologize. I have learned a really good lesson in all of this

Thank you ginnyrose, Mj, and Lysa for your caring responses, to know that the three of you understood and got what I was trying to say...

much love to you
in Him
ellie

edited because all the other stuff just did not really matter.

Phan,

Let us look at the original post:

"Maintain ties—unchallenged and unbroken relationships with children of the devil. (“Children of the devil” is the description that the Bible, and God call those who have not given Jesus ownership of their lives and become washed in His Blood in a second birth.) Let these relationships lie dormant, or boldly fellowship with the unregenerate, non-disciples of Jesus in your family, your workplace, your past, your neighborhood, or other stomping ground. Either way, whether you pursue the relationships or just keep them on hold in the background, if you want to commit spiritual suicide, leave the doors open to embrace them as if they are the same as you, and part of you. Let it be “okay” with you to open your heart and affections to them. Have fond memories of them, and the things you did or could do with those that have not bowed before Jesus. Maintain heart ties with unbelievers. Thus saith the lord of darkness."

I will admit one thing - it is a tad bit confusing, but so are your posts, Phan..:-(

Let us take a look at it again:
Subject: How to Commit Spiritual suicide:

1. Maintain unbroken relationships with children of the devil.

2. Boldly fellowship with the unregenerate, non-disciples of Jesus in your family, your workplace, your past, your neighborhood, or other stomping ground.

3. Leave the doors open to embrace them as if they are the same as you, and part of you.

4. Let it be “okay” with you to open your heart and affections to them. (Or share your heart with them.)

5. Have fond memories of them, and the things you did or could do with those that have not bowed before Jesus. (Recall with fondness the memories of sinful indulgences.)

6. Maintain heart ties with unbelievers.

Do all these things and you will commit spiritual suicide. This is the point of this paragraph.

Psalm 1:1 instructs us to not get advice, counsel from the ungodly because if you do you will soon become a scoffer.

Ellie is right. One does not need to know the circumstances of her life in order to understand this principle. It is for all time for all people regardless where you are.

Does this make sense? or is it still as clear as Missippi mud?

ginnyrose

ginnyrose I agree with you one thousand percent that this principle is for every single one of us and it is for all time. The way you broke it down makes the point impossible to miss!

Ellie your post was clear to me and I stand by the advice I gave you. In fact I will go so far as to say pack up your stuff and leave today, you know the Lord wants you with your husband don't let distractions and things in the world stop you from following the Lord and saving your marriage!!

God bless you
mj

Quote:

"You need to find an elderly Christian woman who loves the Lord and has accordingly maintained her marriage vows. Seek one out and get advice from her"

It may be of interest that there are females here on SI that have been PMing Ellie. Some of us are 'old' as far as the youth are concerned. MaryJane is in her mid-forties, Lysa is in her 50s and I am 63. MaryJane and I are in a covenant marriage - I have been at it for 42 years...by today's standards this is forever! :-) (Maybe this will explain my snowy glory?!

Just thought I would share this info for the new ones who may be ignorant of a few personal details...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

MaryJane is in her mid-forties, Lysa is in her 50s and I am 63. MaryJane and I are in a covenant marriage - I have been at it for 42 years...by today's standards this is forever! :-)

I am not in a covenant marriage (except with "my husband, my Maker":) ), but I am a repentant divorcee who can counsel women to stay married at all costs. I believe Ellie can testify to that I have counseled nothing less.

God bless you, Phan

Phan,

I do not get your point at all. Your argument simply escapes me. Maybe if you would speak in crisp tones like Krispy does I could understand. He is southern, you know, and that is what I am used to!

Oh, you want to eat some crawdads? They are a delicacy...messy eating for sure. Grosses some folks out..but maybe they just never played barefoot in Missippi mud...

ginnyrose

Gregg,

Thanks for the reply...

No offense taken ... and I do not mind if people forget my gender - I don't forget it and neither do the folks that see me in the flesh! lol I look like a female and would find it distasteful if I would be mistaken for otherwise! But writing and reading one can forget...and that is ok.

God bless you Gregg as you work to serve the LORD. That is where your heart is so keep it up. I know sometimes we fail in our communications....

So, you are in carpentry? My husband worked in that craft for years as well. (Several years ago when we visited the "Creation Museum" near by Cincinnati, OH he was more interested in the design and the structure of the building then in the exhibits inside! The floors in the restaurant are beautiful - never saw one like it before.)

Sorry - I have no crawdaddies for ya. On the other hand maybe we do - we do have a few crawdad holes in our yard, but never see the boogers. If they build large chimneys it means we will have a wet summer. And these chimneys are a nuisance; to get rid of 'em I would pour Sevin dust down the holes. One could drive over, mash the chimneys but they would always rebuild them! Smart guys!

Take care and God bless...

ginnyrose

Ellie:

After reading and re-reading the original post, I would have to say I understand the heart of it and agree 100%. I have been ministering to youth for about 20 years now and have seen countless numbers come to the Lord. Almost without exception the ones who make a total change of lifestyle, especially in the area of breaking fellowship with old worldly friends, and who plug into the body of Christ flourish. Also, and almost without exception, those who fail to do this walk right back into the world. Failure to break ties has been the downfall of a great percentage of youth that I have seen fall after being born again.

Having said that, I understand that the article is not saying that we cease to love them or pray for them. It is not saying that we shun them, rather that we do not place ourselves in a position of active influence by them, i.e., maintaining close ties of the kind spoken of in 2 Cor. 6:14. It is also not saying that when we have become strong in the Lord that we should not actively seek to minister the Lord to them and see them saved.

I understand the heart of the article, and your heart as well. I think it a warning that needs to be given, especially to new or weak believers.

I don't nuthin' about Mississippi mud... I'm a Carolina mountain boy. Gimme some BBQ. Krispy

Krispy, you have been missing it brother. Mississippi Mud is the sweet equivalent of Starbucks espresso with quadruple shots. Mom's Mississippi Mud Cake...WOW! Great followup to boiled crawdads or BBQ either one.

God does not come to us in nicely defined, rationally explained, thought categories. God does not fit Himself into our theological text books. The Hebrew God breaks all the rules. He is near, yet transcendent; clothed in human form, yet holy; more terrifying than can be imagined, yet compassionate; invisible, yet revealed; judging, yet merciful, sovereign, yet humble. No matter where you look, God breaks the molds.
- Skip Moen