Altzheimer

So my wife works at a Nursing Home and works with many Altzheimer patients some of them are pleasant others are not so pleasant. My question though is many of these people come to Christ Jesus one day and then forget everything that happened, Also there are some that diligently served the Lord while in their youth but as the Altzheimer took its course they became mean and at times voilent at times because they forget all about their Lord and Saviour due to the disease. What are your thoughts on this? I know that God is the Judge but is there anything in Scripture that would help clear this up? And also I think about how this applies to me, can I fall subject of Forgetting my Saviour and Lord on a day to day basis out of lack of Reverence?

God Bless,
Matthew

Brother Matthew,

This is a hard situation as the term "Alztheimer" is relatively new, and it seems to cover a wide range of types of dementia.

When violent acts and words a involved, I often think of a demonic influence in that person. So many spiritual conditions have been masked by modern and worldly science so we can't see the true source of the problem. It would also explain the difficulty of declaring the gospel to someone in this plight.

If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. There is always evidence of new birth, and if there is no change of heart, than sadly they have not yet been reached. We are also given a new heart and a new mind at salvation. These are biblical guidelines, and I would simply encourage your wife to pray that there would be true evidence of conversion with the working of the Holy Spirit.

I wish it were easier, but it isn't and I, myself, wouldn't want to be falsely converted "by faith". I believe the Lord would do something undeniable to give us that witness.

I know many elderly, in fact a dear customer on my route who is supposedly in the early stages of this. He is very coherent though, and rarely has the symptoms. I have his whole household on my heart to witness to.

On the other hand, there is an elderly woman that receives 24 hour care and people often treat her as a novelty. Her situation is thoroughly demonic but also has the same label of Altzheimer's. She bites and curses, and for someone nearing 100, has a good amount of strength.

So, I most certainly would encourage her to pray for these souls, but to look at them as having spiritual conditions, and to pray against the hold of Satan. Modern medicine has covered the true condition of many people and we have stopped looking at things in a biblical view. I so hope this helps, and may she be a light for the few whose eyes are opened. There is such a need for women and men like herself.

I think in some cases this might be God's mercy. I'm speaking of my granny on my dad's side (I usually always talk about my granny on my mom's side!, in case anyone wondered).

When my dad had cancer, his 2nd wife didn't treat him as well as my granny thought she should. My granny was always a Godly woman but when she spent a couple weeks up there with him and her, it set about hate in her heart toward's this woman.

To be honest, I don't know if she had Alzheimers or something else. My sister and I would always tell her, You have to forgive _______. Towards the end, she couldn't remember what my dad's wife did. I hope and pray that was mercy on God's part towards my granny.

God bless,

I think that understanding the issue may turn out to be futile, but I think that our right response is found in James 1:27:

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

The word for affliction is translated mainly as tribulation and affliction. It has the idea of pressure and oppression. If the person is discerned to be demonically afflicted, as believers it would follow that we should pray for them. But these things are not certain without specific discernment. They could be suffering from genuine mental disease. I personally have refrained from attempting to come to a judgment because I don't think we can really know unless God reveals something. So my view is that we continue to minister to them in that affliction and allow God to make any judgments necessary.

My sentiments echo Robert's exactly.

There comes a time when we simply do not understand and the 'why's' are more numerous then the explanations.

I personally know of a man who was as ungodly as you could be, but one day God got a hold of him and did a complete turn around. Instead of cursing, swearing and doing all manner of ungodly things, he became a very godly person. In time he was ordained to the ministry and eventually became an evangelist. Souls came to the LORD, healings ocurred (my cousin had rheumatic fever then, he prayed for her and she improved - not sure if she was completely healed at this point - may have been but this happened back in the 1950s.). He prayed much and miracles followed.

But he got old and older and Alzheimer's set in. His speech reverted back to his pre-conversion mode. People who knew him well during his days of ministry, were completely baffled. One minister told me how he regretted visiting him in the nursing home. So tragic. These ministers all said it is in the hand of God....and they shook their heads.

I am sure glad I am not God. I know he will be just and righteous in his judgement.

Maybe this helps - a little.

ginnyrose

If our brain fails us, and in hapless senility we lose much or even all of our former intelligence and knowledge of God, I do not think the Lord will forget us in turn. After-all he remains faithful, (2 Tim 2:13), his love endures forever, (Ps. 136:25). nothing can separate us from his love, (Romans 8:38-39), he finishes what he started, (Phil. 1:6), and he has overcome death (1 Cor. 15:57), and taken the sting out of death. (1Cor 15:55)

In short the Lord will not cast his children aside because of a degenerative brain condition, any more then we would cast our own children aside for the same reason.

"Far be it from You to do such a thing, to slay the righteous with the wicked, so that the righteous and the wicked are treated alike. Far be it from You! Shall not the Judge of all the earth deal justly?" (Gen, 18.25)

Mike

Brenda,

So are you suggesting that if a person somehow loses their mind and exhibits characteristics unbecoming of a Christian they were never saved to begin with? Can we also conclude that when they become combative towards their own family members (wife, husband, children, etc.) that they never really loved them either? I'm not sure your prepared to follow though with the position.

My grandmother died of Alzheimers (You would think they would make that particular word easier to spell???). I first noticed the it when she began placing labels on things in the house to remind herself of what they were called. Eventually the disease caused her to lose her memory and then her health.

The brain is simply a part of our physical body, made of dust like the rest of us. What happens in our soul realm (thinking, feeling, choosing) is really a mix of brain and spirit. But it is in our spirit that we are born again. The union of our physical bodies, or mental and emotional processes, and our spirit in life makes it a bit hard to sort out sometimes. But my brain has never been born again. I have been renewing my mind through the word and the Holy Spirit ever since I was born again, but still it is my spirit that is reborn. See John 3.

So I would like to give my opinion to this question with a question I guess. How is deterioration of the brain and resulting dementia any different than, lets say, prostate cancer? I don't mean to imply that some sickness, and I think a lot of mental illness, is the result of demonic spirits. But if Alzheimers is truly caused by physical processes, how is it any different than any other physical illness? Does the behavior associated with the brain malfunctioning differ from the pain associated with, for example, a cancer?

I had a Friend who developed this disease.
She won her Husband to the Lord after being married to him a long time.
I can truthfully say that up until the time she died in a Nursing Home,
I never saw her violent, and when anyone was talking about Jesus, and how she would see her Husband Joe, again, she would get so happy.
Her Spiritual condition didn't have anything to do with her mental condition.
I know that probably there are some who get violent with this disease, but this lady was Spirit filled.
I'm like all the rest of you, I don't know why God's Children are afflicted with this disease, nor do I know why they get Cancer, and other incurable diseases, but He will one day answer our questions.

Since I minister at the Nursing Homes, I see a lot that I don't understand, but I've been so Blessed to be able to go and be with these people.

God Bless
Nellie

But if Alzheimers is truly caused by physical processes, how is it any different than any other physical illness? Does the behavior associated with the brain malfunctioning differ from the pain associated with, for example, a cancer?

The thing about diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's. etc., is that they often leave the victim mentally handicapped. They behave as if they have a mental disability.

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; (II Timothy 1:7,8)

Our word here for 'sound mind' is σωφρονισμοῦ and is found only here in this form. Darby translates the passage:

For God has not given us a spirit of cowardice, but of power, and of love, and of wise discretion. (II Timothy 7:7,8)

This is a godly boldness in the face of persecution. It is a spirit that allows us to answer rightly when challenged in our faith with meekness and reverence. It is addressed first to young Timothy, that he would not walk as did the ungodly youth. Proverbs 14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.

The word σωφρονισμοῦ (sound mind/wise discretion) has the root σώφρων and is also used only once. It is here translated as 'sober.'

The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, (Titus 2:3,4 G4998)

Notice the common theme in our two passages- one is addressed to a young man and here towards young women. The idea here is one of teaching in the sense of bringing the younger women to their senses by showing what sound thinking truly is.

The testimony of Jesus within never fades away, although everything natural might fade away, the spirit remains alive and free.

So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison, as we look not to the things that are seen but to the things that are unseen. For the things that are seen are transient, but the things that are unseen are eternal.
(2Corinthians 4:16-18)

In Christ,

Ron

Robert, I appreciate your definition of 'sound mind'.

I have another question, especially to those who question whether a child of God can be afflicted with Alzheimer's.

What about the aging process? How can you prevent its onslaught?

I used to think that if I stayed active I will be able to prevent arthritis and whatever troubles aging bodies. I used to say I am the most limber 60 YO lady in the county unless she is a professional athlete...I was and still am very limber - but arthritis has set in and now I am battling it. Or, how about forgetfulness? I am appalled at the things I forget and stupid things, I might add. I used not to.

You see, my body is dying. Even my mind no longer has the stamina that it used to. It gets weary, very weary. Does this mean my problem is spiritual?

When you are young and so idealistic and ever so healthy it is easy to look at old people and decide the reason they are ailing is because of a spiritual problem. Just do not forget all these wrinkled old folks were one time young, healthy and [likely] beautiful/handsome.

And if the LORD tarries you too will get old, and wrinkled and slow and.....maybe get alzheimer's. You could pray that the LORD would spare you from this ailment and perhaps He might, but God doesn't always answer our prayers in the time frame we have chosen.

ginnyrose

" When you are young and so idealistic and ever so healthy it is easy to look at old people and decide the reason they are ailing is because of a spiritual problem. Just do not forget all these wrinkled old folks were one time young, healthy and [likely] beautiful/handsome."

Amen!

When we are young we tend to think we will always have the same kind of tireless mind even though we faintly expect our bodies to grow old. Yet the brain is a fragile organ and like the rest of the body, it changes shape with time. Even without severe ailments, the brain is much like a soft lens whose shape can change because or pressure or damage, causing the images seen through it to change as well.

I knew a very godly woman and pastors wife in her 70's whose tireless work for other peoples issues and crisis' contributed to her having a nervous breakdown. Then I watch amazed as the very same people who consumed her emotional and mental resources concluded her breakdown was evidence of not trusting in the Lord or some other spiritual lack...when it was their own lack that wore her down!

To be sure, spiritual problems can effect the mind, but it does not follow that all mental or emotional ailments are therefore evidence of hidden spiritual conditions...at least none that are not common to all of fallen humanity.

Blessings,

MC

I have heard of the diet you are talking about I think or at least a similar one, They base it off of the diet that Adam and Eve had before the fall, Every seed-bearing plant and every fruit bearing tree (minus the Tree of Knowledge of Course) I met a man that recovered from Cancer through Christ Jesus he used this diet and said that it helped him a ton.

Years ago Dr. Dobson aired a program dealing with aging which was so informative.

Dobson said that years ago people died younger because of lack in accurate diagnosis of illnesses and then effective treatment. Medical science has since improved much in its diagnostic abilities and treatments which will render peoples' ability to live longer which will then put them at risk for diseases rare in the old days, like alzheimers.

My paternal grandparents were born in 1888. Grandpa died in 1946 due to heart disease; his wife followed in 1955 from the same affliction. They had eight children of whom only two still live, both in their eighties. The youngest one to die was 78 YO; the others lived to be in their eighties and nineties. But they all had heart problems - like their parents - and thanks to modern medicine they were enabled to live longer. However, the uncles that lived to be in their nineties all developed dementia.

As I consider my family history, serious questions challenge me: would I want to ever have heart by-pass surgery or take other invasive treatments for heart diseases so I can live longer so I can develop alzheimer's? (Granted, none of the aunts developed dementia, it was only the males.)

Modern medicine, with all its wonderful healing properties, is not always the cure for whatever ails you. It can also prolong the dying process. Given these realities, one must seriously consider what one's options are, doing your own research so if your health starts to break down you may have general idea what is best for you and your family.

Yes, aging is not for sissies!

"And LORD, please allow me to have a healthy mind until you decide to call me home!" So prayed my maternal grandfather, and God in his mercy and grace granted him that wish. (He lived to be 88 YO.)

ginnyrose

One more story, but a heartwarming one, if possible.

Years ago, perhaps 20, "Christianity Today" magazine printed an article written by a college president. In it he details his reason for resigning from his position as president of the college.

His wife had developed Alzheimer's and required close personal supervision. He said she lived a sacrificial life, helped him much when he needed it; she was always there for him, supported him and never asked much in return. Now he said she needs help and it is now my turn to render her that assistance!

Some time passed and a followup was printed in CT. The man was still committed to his wife...

That man must be a gem! this is what love is all about!

ginnyrose

No I did not mean that all must not have been saved as I believe that we can lose our salvation.

Would that mean that if I lose my mind and no longer walk in perfection that I am subject to eternal damnation? I'm just trying to get a handle on what you mean.

Why would God`s promises only apply to mentally healthy people?

Because in order to rightly respond to revelation a person would have to have basic mental capabilities that allow them to reason rightly. The mentally handicapped often have no such ability or a limited ability. It is consistent throughout the NT that they who suffered such conditions were only relieved by Divine intervention. It is my view that such persons, as infant children, being unable to rightly reason, are under grace. If a Christian came into such a state after having been of sound mind and judgment we have this promise:

For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.(Hebrews 6:10)

I think great caution is in order when dealing with such that have come into mental illness for whatever reason. God is watching. Sound judgment of such cases should follow consideration of the afflicted-ones inability or limited abilities; not that God has called us to judge them at all, for that is His prerogative alone. But rather that we judge this, that none put a stumbling block before them or others in suggesting that somehow they have fallen into disfavor with God through no fault of their own; or even worse to seek to link some sin with their present circumstance.

QUOTE:

"I know a lovely schizophrenic lady who hardly needs any medication because she loves the Lord."

This sounds like an oxymoron.

EDIT - removed a sentence...

ginnyrose

I don`t believe that one can lose one`s mind if one is perfected. The brain can lose function but the mind is not the brain and the presence of the Holy Spirit will preserve it. If Alzheimers is caused through bad diet, or cooking in aluminum pots is the person not responsible in some ways? Most degenerative disease is caused through life choice. If God is leading us then we will make good choices and not be enslaved to addictions like coffee and sugar.

It sounds like you are saying that if a person gets a disease that affects the mind in such a way as we have described, then it is their own fault and are guilty before God? If I follow through with this idea it would seem that a person could end up in hell over sugar and coffee. Do I understand that right?

Are the mentally handicapped and babies filled with the Spirit?

I have thought upon this passage much during this thread:

And David said unto Gad, I am in a great strait: let me fall now into the hand of the LORD; for very great are his mercies: but let me not fall into the hand of man. (I Chron. 21:13)

I beg to God to never a man or woman judge me on that great day. Let me fall into the hands of the Lord, for truly there I would find mercy. If I should lose my mind and man should relegate me to the damned may the Lord be my defense and I will fear no other.

Alzheimer's, me thinks, is caused by a bitter spirit.

There would have to be a good amount of consistency in both directions for this to be a good theory.

1. Do most bitter people get Alzheimer's
2. Are most Alzheimer patients bitter

We would then need to know if a direct link between bitterness and the disease can be established.

Although I agree it is important not to grow bitter in our lives, I don't think we can draw a conclusion like that from our own limited experiences.

I have seen what I will call a dear holiness lady grow old and lose her mind in a terrible fury just before death. She attended our meeting in the Nursing Home many years ago and said to us, "I hope I make it!" She had lived her whole life for Christ and was winding down to the end with no real assurance of salvation. She was made to believe that unless she was perfect she would not make heaven, but would die and go to hell. Her hair was in a bun her dress to the floor. Never a mean word from her mouth. But she had apparently been taught that unless she was perfect she would not make it.

Rosie was in a terrible frame and begin to lose her mind. Years and years of indoctrination in the Finney/Wesley perfection vain left her mind in a horrific state. She believed in salvation by sanctification. Step on the crack and your damned. No sin will enter heaven. If your last act on this earth is a sin you will split hell wide open. The only way I can describe what I saw as her teachers would be to think on the madness of the so-called Baptist preacher from Topeka, KS. We tried to minister to her, but alas, the last time we saw her she was caged in a hospital bed. Imagine a steel cage over a bed that was 7 feet tall. She had gone insane apparently in tormentous fear of her everlasting soul. Where was her preacher now? Where were the ones that lied to this dear precious woman?

Me and a brother often asked each other; what could she have possibly been doing that would have made her so fearful of her soul? She was never good enough in her own eyes. I was so horrified by her death; having seen what I believed was a Methodist style perfection meets Charles Finneyite, I concluded that such holiness teachers were monsters. The people that did this to her must be devils! I have since changed that view. I know now that she did not have a proper understanding of justification by faith. Such fearful teachings meant to keep one on the strait and narrow stole her sanity in the end. What a terrible impression it made on me as a young believer wondering if I would die caged, insane, SCREAMING and begging God for mercy after a life of faithfulness.

I think as ginnyrose said earlier that we have to be careful of idealistic notions. Just when we think we have our theology all worked out 'people' come into the equation and challenge our self-love. I think we need to lead with grace. Jesus was always our example to do so.

While we are still in the flesh we are subject to the laws of nature, to the anatomic, physiologic, and biochemical processes of our body.

Even a simple act of smiling requires an intact biologic system for it to be carried out. You severe the nerves to the relevant effector muscles and this ability will be lost.

The neurochemical and histological changes in patients with the late stage of Alzheimer's disease cause them to lose their judgement and ethical ability. These persons must be cared for with diligence so that they will not inflict injury to others and to themselves.

This is indeed a very distressful situation especially if the sufferer is dear to us. But should we be worried about the salvation of our love ones or brethren who are now manifesting the late stages of Alzheimer's.

What makes us confident before the presence of God, is it a clear conscience, a righteous life, or as the psalmist said:

Psalm 32:1-2 "Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the LORD counts no iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit".

We are saved by grace and this grace will keep us through eternity.

Rom 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Rom 8:34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?