An Open Letter to my Sisters in Christ

An Open Letter to my Sisters in Christ

Dear Sisters in Christ. Grace and peace to you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I intend to write to you about a subject that is very much burning in my heart and that you will unlikely will find expressed inside the realm of modern church life. It is the issue of modesty. Modesty is a word that is applied whenever it comes to choices that express wisdom, tact, and maturity of judgement. Today I would like to express my concerns about women's clothing and appearance in church. I am writing to you as a man who is affected by this issues and I am expressing my thoughts and feeling for many fellow brothers.

Let me open my discourse with the followin verse from 1.John
2:15-16 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world.

Summer is at the door and the temperatures are rising. We put our warm winter clothes away and put on lighter clothes. Usually, the choice of lighter clothing will also mean that women will potentially display parts of her body that are concealed during the darker and colder period of the year. Fashion nowadays dictates most womenfolk what to wear and what not. It is tiring and costly to keep up with today's trends. Bony Barbie dolls with body shapes out of reach for most mortal ladies teach you what you are to wear. You may not be able to go for their designer dreams but still their stylistic influence will quickly be adopted by the more budget driven mass market.

There was always fashion and their will always be fashion this side of eternity.. In the last couple of decades we have seen a general trend in fashion and that the fact that clothing aims at attracting men by highlighting their bodily features. It goes even further by appealing downright to the lust of their potential male admirers. For one it is the pressure of modern work life. The women wants to look attractive to make sure she can quickly secure favour with men in powerful positions. They are in a competitive environment and an attractive appearance may give you this little extra edge. There is also a striking biologic reason for it. In today's socio-economic climate, strong family bounds are more and more eroded and give way to relationships that are less committed and fleeting. People get in and out of relationships more quickly. The modern women does not want to be left out and make sure that wherever she goes she can potentially enter a relationship with a man if such a need should arise. I am speaking in general terms about the modern women in the world portrayed by media and seen in reality all around us.

Today there is much talk in Christian circles about contextualization of our faith. They tell you you have to be relevant and do not want to be seen as oddballs who live up to outdated legalistic standards. So go with the flow as long as you stay out of excesses and win people for Christ by showing them that you are just like one of then. You do not want to be a seen as a bible basher and turn people off by the way you dress. Sounds reasonable, heh? Here is my take: If you are follower of Christ you are in stark contrast to the world anyway. There is no way you can avoid to disclose your new identity in Christ. If you are truly saved and filled with the Holy Spirit, everything in and about you will point to your risen saviour. That is a strong statement, but consider, Dear Sister, when you are born-again, you opted to no longer to live for yourself but desire the appearance of your bridegroom Jesus Christ and be found as chaste virgin. You are saved to save others.

It would be good if an older sister would admonish you in these things as she may be more understanding than the male author of this letter though a male perspective on these matters may open you up to a perspective that she cannot take. We men are easily aroused by display of feminine features. The Greek word eros stands for physically attraction between a man and a woman. It was originally ordained by God to help us leave our mother and father and to seek a beautiful damsel. She would become our wife and her bodily features are only for our own exclusive private enjoyment inasmuch as we give our body to her ideally resulting in a number of godly children.

Satan, ever creative to steal, lie and kill perverted the God permitted attraction between husband and wife by suggesting her that she would gain many advantages to by showing her bodily features to the male public. The advantages are clearly seen. I observed in my office that ladies who display their bodily features are more frequented by colleagues and get more opportunities. I myself have interviewed ladies for job positions who showed up in seductive apparel. Satan's strategy for men is to try to make us feel good when we are exposed to female allure. We get flattered, thinking we are irresistible. Our thoughts wonder, our judgement about the real qualities of a particular woman can easily become distorted. In the work place, a man is tempted to give a position or opportunity to a women based on her external features rather then her real qualities and merits. It works as a bribe. In serious cases it may result in an adulterous or promiscuous relationship. The media is full of these stories, in fact they live of these stories. The damage is often great and irreparable. Families break up, divorce, costly lawsuits, dividing of shared property, poverty, bitterness, hurt children and violence or suicide can be the consequence of such behaviour.

We live in a sex-crazed world. In the sixties Satan sent out many of his prophets like the Beatles and Rolling Stones to promote sexual freedom promising freedom from a prudish and outdated morale codex. They worked hard to eliminate decency and modesty. Fashion that would have seen as scandalous in the fifties became accepted and popular, though not wide spread. The mini skirt became an icon of the sixties. Holidays on the beach were not an option for most classes came within the financial reach of the masses. Bikinis appeared on the scene and today are the de-facto beach wear of the average women. In some places they even go further than that. Imagine a women in a bikini beamed back into Victorian times. She would have been either arrested our put into an asylum straightaway.

Lust is one of the major temptations for us men. Lascivious images are all around us. We have to make a conscious effort to not expose yourself to them. A quick glance on an advertising billboard, a thoughtless mouse-click or a TV ad delivers you images with our without your consent. Most men are more or less addicted to internet porn. Living and working in a cosmopolitan city is like moving in a mine field of images that trigger lust in a man and cause him to sin. The first look is unavoidable, if you do not consciously look away but give it a second glance, you have already sinned. Only a man with a firm uncompromising faith can avoid these traps.

The bible exhorts us.
2. Tim 2: 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

How then should Christian 21st century women dress?

1 Timothy 2:9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

Dear Sisters, you can make a difference in this fallen world. By dressing modestly you can set a admirable example. A women can show that she honours God by concealing those parts of her body that could cause a men to lust after her. She does not have the need to allure men, for she is either committed to her husband, or if she is unmarried, believes that God will provide for her the right one. A godly woman does not have to impress others by making a statement about her wealth or status. Excessive jewellery or make up does not add to her self-esteem. Being esteemed by Christ is all she needs. She does not have to follow the latest trends and does not burden herself in keeping up with the rest of womenfolk. She is not bullied by the global fashion idolatry, she refuses to be dictated by fashion magazines and advertisements what goes and what doesn't.

Does this mean she puts on very base and cheep clothes or wrap herself up in a potato sack from head to toe? Not at all. There is nothing against displaying good taste. Modest clothing does not have to be boring, base or ugly. Neatness and tidiness go well along with modesty. The bible does not give you very clear guidelines what to wear and what not to wear. The New Testament gives us godly principles rather than a set of rules. You now have the Holy Spirit to aid you. May be the following thoughts can help you.
Wear clothes that does not draw attention to yourself.
Keep mandatory dress codes and abide by conventions of your work place.
Dress as a women and do not wear man's clothes Deuteronomy 22:5 (New King James Version)
“A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.
Imagine you are standing before the Lord Jesus himself.
Pray before you buy new clothes. Is it really necessary?

Mat 6:28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, ho w they grow: they neither toil or spin;

So what should we wear then?
So what is modest and what is immodest? Please understand that you do not just dress for yourself but that everybody else sees you in your clothes. Consider how you are effecting others; namely men. I will get more specific here, as for a women you may be unaware what effect your clothes have on other men.

Decollete - This is one of the primary areas a women should take care. A shirt or dress should conceal everything that could make a man stumble. No deep V-cuts, leave the buttons closed. I must say from experience, talking to a woman with a deep decollete is a real challenge. If you look at her face as you would do in any conversation you see more than you should, if you look away you are insulting her, too.

Length of skirt – I suggest you keep your knees covered.

Tight clothing – nowadays there is are a lot of trousers and shirts worn that a very tight. Some are as snug as a second skin and trigger lustful looks of men.

Low waistline trousers – can be extremely embarrassing to look at, especially when you sit down.

High heel shoes Makes you appear long legged and taller. Must be painful to walk in the for a whole day and it deforms your feet. Who do you want to attract anyway?

Why do you have to dress sexy or “kinky” as they call it nowadays? “Kinky” is actually even worse as it has sado-masochistic connotations. This is an invention by the devil and is simply not fitting for a godly woman. You exploit the weakness of your fellow brother, causing him to fall into the sin of lust. Jesus says
Mat 5: 28: But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Do you want to be guilty of causing men to commit adultery with their eyes? Why do you agree to participate in Satan's work? I believe we would have far less incest, rape, perversion, divorce, and adultery if women would dress more modest. Many women unknowingly send signals to men that they misunderstand as an invitation. Of course, the Christian man has no excuse and must master sin, just as Cain was commanded by God.

Hairstyles
The same can be said about hairstyles. You can spend a lot of time and money on hair-styles. Hair dyes, hair-extensions, perms, hair-straightening. So many options to choose from, so many extra worries to have and extra time away from your place of service. Simplicity and natural look is beautiful. The Lord has given you natural hairstyle that you do not have to be ashamed of. Can't you give thanks to the Lord for the hair you have as a natural beautiful covering? (1. Cor 11:15 But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory for her, for her hair is given to her as a covering).

Jewellery
Jewellery shows your social status. The intention behind wearing jewellery is to add value to your natural appearance. What better status can you attain than being a beloved daughter of God? Is your social status among unbelievers still important to you?

Designer Clothes
Designer clothes is a multi billion £ industry. You can spend an enormous amount of money trying to keep up with the latest trend. The models are always in the prime of their youth and courted by young men who made a fortune by the tender age of 25 and drive around in sports cars. They all look as if they have just woken up.

Make up
There is one women in the bible known for her make up. It was Jezebel, the wife of Ahab one of the most evil kings Israel ever had. She actually controlled him. Do you need to make yourself appear younger and more pretty than you are? Are you ashamed of your natural look and appearance? Make up suggests you make up for something that you do not have.

Hygiene and skin care
I recently made a discovery. I eliminated shower gel and shampoo. Guess what: My dandruff is almost gone and my skin is more healthy. I do not want to be tovertly harsh here. There are some products that are good for you and your needs. The bible make mention of applying oil to your skin. God's creation is full of good stuff that can be applied to your skin, but remember, there is a big industry out there manipulating you to buy their products.

Conclusion
Dear sister, allow me to appeal to you. Dress modestly so that you do not cause your brother in Christ to lust after you. Conceal your body parts that are not meant for the public to see. Be content with the way you look. Accept that you are ageing, it is not a shame. Spent your time and money in a godly way. A godly women's inner beauty is timeless and priceless and rare. Natural beauty has nothing to do with character and is short lived. You have far less worries if you do not concern yourself too much with all these things. We live in a fallen world, if you conform to it, you will fall, too. Dear sister, find your satisfaction in serving Christ. His robe of righteousness is never out of fashion and never wears out. As a spiritual virgin, adorn yourself with good deeds rather than with excessive jewellery. Dare to be different, set an example, Christ will honour you for that. A godly husband will be most pleased with such a wife.

Your Brother in Christ
Philip

Dear Philip,

First of all, I love your name seeing as it is my younger son's as well. How can I not be biased? :)

In reguards to your well prayed out and written plea, it is a must read. I am so grieved by those that refuse to listen to these sober words. I know you spent much time seeking the wisdom of the Lord on this.

I believe I can speak with some authority as well, having been backslidden for 15 years, and offending people so much by my apparel, that my older sister refused to speak to me for two years. That was my former self.

When I came back to the Lord, I endured a fiery purging and deliverance. The Lord was very clear about certain issues reguarding myself and what He thought about them, and not the modern church's views. Many of the things listed in your post were things I did away with. Women, please hearken.

It is time to stop worrying about what the world thinks. If you prefer to mirror the women in it, you must do some serious soul searching. We are to be holy in ALL manner of conversation, and the Lord is using men and women of God to set the standard.

When I began to be cleansed from my obsession with hair and makeup, I was certainly afraid that I would appear as a prude, tight lipped figure. I was so wrong. Out of all this emerged a fresh faced godly appearance that my son remarked on in a good way. What a compliment! He said, "Mom I can't believe you spent all that money dying your hair when it looks so nice natural."

My complexion has improved dramatically as well.

In reguards to clothing, we have been given the Holy Spirit and the Bible for our reference. We are to avoid all appearance of evil. We are given specific orders not to offend or cause our brother to stumble. Remember, if you have done it to the least of your brethren, you have done it unto Christ Jesus.

I cannot believe the professing Christian women that have no problem disrobing and leaving modesty at home when it comes to the summer season. Dear ladies, I stand behind this brother. You will be held accountable for every action, and I pray this might be a wake up call for you. God is cleaning his church up, and soon he will not speak any more if we seek to justify our fascination with the world.

I believe that this timely post is a request by the Lord Himself. Are we not his daughters?

Please humbly ask the Lord to show you anything that must be dealt with. I am so saddened by the anguish this brother feels, as well as the many men of God that struggle with this.

May the Lord speak to those that ears to hear.

I thought this was pretty good overall. I do wish that men would take it more seriously as well. So many times I have had ladies share with me how their husbands or other christian men preach to woman about being modest but they themselves do not practice it and they do not walk out what they preach. I have had many women shared the frustration of mixed messages they get from christian men. It can be difficult. Especially when they preach against immodest dress and behavior but then those are the very girls/women they pay the most attention to??
For some of the unmarried ladies that have shared in our group they find it a real frustration that the young men are not told these same things. That they are not taught to look for Godly woman who love the Lord and dress with Him as Lord of their life. I had never thought about it from that point of view before, how hard that must be to be told to dress modestly and then have all the unmarried young men pay all their attention to women who dress immodestly and behave immodestly. I think that would be confusing.

Thank you for sharing
God Bless
mj

edit: I just wanted to make clear that I agree women need to be mindful of how they dress. I do understand some of the frustration that women who have shared with me feel though when they get mixed messages. In the end we must do as the Lord leads us and dress in a way that He leads us to.

Amen MaryJane,

This is why I mentioned that each seek to please the Lord individually because they are receiving wrong counsel from other sources.

Perhaps many are seeking after their own lusts and wanting to be around those that condone such behaviour?

We should all be strong enough to resist those that teach us contrary to the Word. Even at a young age I had enough presence of mind as to what my apparel, and manner of conduct would accomplish.

When I began to backslide, I thought much less of others or offending them, than of my own desires. The more you draw close to Christ, the more you become mortified of offending others. You know you are grieving the Lord Jesus.

My biggest lesson learned so far is to trust no man. I have heard more lies and compromise coming from the pulpit than from anywhere else.

If the minister can't take a stand on behalf of those that are offended, then you can sadly see why these things happn in the churches. Oh, may the Lord clean up His people!

Brother Philip, I so apologize for what you and your brothers endure. Isaiah 3:12-24 is a very precise description of the majority of the women in the churches today. I say this because there is really only a remnant that will hear and listen to what the Holy Spirit speaks. We really are in perilous times and this area is a reflection of many other errors that are affecting the body.

So so sad.

Very timely post. Philip, I think I will copy/paste it into a documents that I am collecting in preparation to teach in a few weeks "Living above Popular Culture" to my VBS girls (Check my post under the "Miracles..."forum.)

Just a few random thoughts....

1. Mary Quant was the one who introduced the mini-skirt to the public back in the 1960s. The idea was to inform the public 'who was available' and was surprised how well it took off. She, was a PK, BTW. Or, so it was said back then. Now go figure.

2. Skin care: I was troubled with acne ever since I was an adolescent. I used creams of all kinds only to have it flair up ..again. Not until I was about 40 YO and discovered I was allergic to perfumes and then abstained from all uses of it, did my complexion clear up. Totally! I can use scented candles in the house with no ill effects, but anything that goes on my clothes or body has to be scent free - detergents, hand soap, TP, shampoo, deodorant. Today if I use anything scented I will earn another pimple in about three weeks!

3. I would encourage girls, women to take to the sewing machine to sew their own clothes. One can be ever so creative and sew beautiful clothes that are modest and pretty. Unfortunately, clothing construction is fast becoming a lost art. You can spend whatever money you want on a sewing machine - anywhere from $200 to $8,000. Your choice of fabrics are endless - you may have to go online to find them, though. I can buy all I need locally. Sewing is a perfect way to be creative which can be developed into an artform - and it is non-fattening!

4. One lady said how husbands like to parade their wives' nudity to to other males - like a trophy: look what I have! I find this disturbing. I find it very disturbing when I see pics of preachers whose females dress so immodestly. It always makes me wonder if their heart is really in serving the LORD?

5. As a female, when I see plunging necklines, exposing the breast, I get the sense the female is inviting fondling. I, too, am a female .... need I say more? I say shame on you and on you men who love to see your wife and daughters paraded like that!

God bless you, Philip for sharing your heart on this issue. And I appreciate MaryJane and Kathleen's responses, as well.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

It truly is a grief that more believers will not take this to heart. The "church" looks so much like the world that you can't tell the difference.

I am a woman and say to all other women, be modest, cover up. We will stand before a Holy God responsible for causing our brothers to stumble. Many so called christian girls are dressing like hookers, sorry for the word, but it's the truth. Those mini-skirts, shirts with cleavage showing, strapless halters, and gladiator shoes are the same things street walkers wear to entice their clients. what are we doing. What message are we sending? It is time to line up our choices with the word of God and live a sanctified life.

We are called out of darkness into His marvelous light. Let us walk like children of the light and have no part in ways of darkness.

We all need to pray for the conviction of the Holy Spirit to bring repentance for all these things.

Thank you for a good reminder to the church.

Amen, Kathleen.
It will have to start in the pulpit.
Too many times the Pastor will let people on the praise and worship team, or in the choir, that are dressed so provocative that I dare to say would embarrass the sinners
who came in, other than convict them.
It seems this day and time that Pastors are afraid to preach agaist sin for fear of losing a dollar.
We are sheep, and the Shepherd is to lead the sheep.
The Holy Spirit will show Women how to dress.
He will show the Men as well..
God Bless all.
This is a good article, Phillip.
Nellie

3. I would encourage girls, women to take to the sewing machine to sew their own clothes. One can be ever so creative and sew beautiful clothes that are modest and pretty. Unfortunately, clothing construction is fast becoming a lost art. You can spend whatever money you want on a sewing machine - anywhere from $200 to $8,000. Your choice of fabrics are endless - you may have to go online to find them, though. I can buy all I need locally. Sewing is a perfect way to be creative which can be developed into an artform - and it is non-fattening!

___________________

this is a great suggestion. I have learned how to sew and have made some clothes and altered many of my clothes to be more modest. I make my own shorts for the summer time now. Its really easy and I can insure that the length of my shorts comes all the way to the knees. Dressing in layers in another really great option for those who do not have the time or means to sew. Invest in several tank tops and wear them under tee shirts that have low cut neck lines. IT gives extra coverage of the area and when color are put together you can be very creative:) I also share with younger girls that they don't have to get caught up with body image, for many women their negative body image plays such a HUGE part in how they dress and behave. Sadly so much in this world tells even the very young girls they must be skinny and sexy(lies from the enemy) I always share that you want to be healthy(no matter what your body type is) so you can be about what the Lord has for you to be doing and you want to dress in a way that does not draw attention to your self. As women serving the Lord we should always seek to have all the attention given to the Lord. I have no problem buying a size up just to make sure I don't have that tight look to my clothes but for a long time that was really hard for me to do. It was like if I buy a size 10 instead of size 8 then I must be really fat but I have learned that its all just numbers and does not mean anything. The world does not dictate who we are, who we are is to be found in Christ Jesus:)

God Bless
mj

I am in total agreement, Philip. And I'm in agreement with the other ladies that said it needs to start from the pulpit. The church I stopped going to would give me or who ever did the powerpoint for having something misspelled, saying this could stop someone from getting saved (pul-lease) but yet they'd let the young women get up and sing in shorts with their belly buttons showing. I told the preacher the last Sunday my mom went that she wouldn't be back because of that girly show and they didn't know what I was talking about. (Go figure)

(edit) But when the pastor's don't care about keeping the big tithe payers, they will finally start preaching what Jesus wants them to preach. (/edit)

Krautfrau is right about the nudists. Nudists aren't nudists because they're addicted to pornography, they're nudists because they love the freedom; and they don't look on the other nude people as sexual objects like those addicted to porn do. Total different between the two.

I just wonder whether men want it both ways in some countries. They see women as sex objects and the women feel that is all they have to offer and in order to compete dress provocatively.

_______________

I think that there is truth in this. I know that several ladies have shared from all age groups about the mixed messages they get from their husbands, pastors, and christian brothers. I think that young unmarried women feel the need to compete for attention because as some have said most of the young unmarried men say they want a christian wife who dresses modestly ect. but many of them spend their time dating or being with the girls who are all done up and immodest. One young girl shared with me how the youth pastor gave a four week long teaching on modesty then the very next Sunday was with his girlfriend who was dressed very inappropriately. That gets confusing for these young girls. That is why I think this teaching needs to be taught to men as well. Women do need to dress with care and modesty in the Lord but men need to stop giving confusing mixed messages too.

God Bless
mj

Good video on this subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W1s7u0YiAU

true..thanks for the post:)

I will check the video out later this after noon when I have a bit more time.My opinion is not about the video I will share after I have time to watch.

I will say this I don't think it should be a blame game, both men and women are equally guilty of this and I think that if all are willing to walk in the Lord and submit themselves unto the Lord then this would become a non issue. I will say that women who profess the name of Jesus should use care when choosing their clothing, but men also are responsible for where their eyes roam and how long they linger. I always tell my boys when you first see a girl dressed immodestly if you allow your eyes to linger it becomes your sin because you did not flee. I agree that the mixed messages need to be addressed. Husbands telling their wives they want them to dress with modesty in mind but then allow their own eyes to stray and stare at women who are not dressed appropriately does send a wrong and confusing message to their wives. And actually men, especially young men need to think about modesty just as much. Tight, low rise, skinny jeans are marketed to guys just as much as they are girls and they are just as inappropriate.

God Bless
mj

Kraut... LOL I'm so sorry I misintrepreted your words!!

Others,

I made a mistake on my last comment, I blamed the pastors (I'm sure as leaders, they are) but upon thinking further about it, I should not have blamed JUST them. This goes way deeper than the pastors rules in a church.

We are living under the New Covenant; Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals alike, we ALL received the Holy Spirit upon getting saved. Some say all and some say a portion... well, whatever be the case - "IF" ANYONE has the Holy Spirit, why aren't they listening to Him?

Why aren't OTHER women taking these women under their wings and discipling them rather than talking about them behind their back, or preaching against them? Just asking.

If we are our brothers and sisters keeper, something has gone dreadfully wrong.

God bless us all as we learn to be part of the Bride,

I had a huge post all written out but then I prayed about it and tossed it. This isn't a sin where one sex is more guilty then the other, both need to be mindful of how they treat their brothers and sisters in Christ and both need to submit themselves unto the Lord.

I think the first post had some good points and many young women and men today need to think about this if they are truly walking with Jesus:)

God Bless
mj

Grant, I really appreciate what you have shared.

"To the sister who said that young girls are upset by the fact that they're dressing modestly and all the church guys are going after the fleshly girls, give them this to consider. If they desire to do what's right in God's sight, do they really want to be yolked with guys who are running after their lusts? Are these really the type of guys they want to pay attention to them, and to form lasting Godly relations with? To raise their children with? I'm 24 years old, and I'm not married, and I want to say this in all humility, but to encourage young women who maybe lose heart because of how so called Christian young men are acting."

These were exactly my thoughts when I read the comment, and I am a woman.

It would seem that the worldly types are alluring on both sides and excuses are made to justify their positions. We are called to be set apart people, not living as close to the edge of hell as we can.

I do believe it is important to for the older women to teach the younger to walk in modesty, but when you don't have the agreement from the leadership, who don't want to offend, it makes is more difficult. In case your thinking well you just need to find another church, well God called me where I am. I intercede for these young people.

I would suggest you all watch the video on youtube by Dr. Owuor, a prophet, where he is speaking to the pastors in Venezuela. It is amazing. He tells them exactly like it is, including about modesty of both men and women. I would put the link but we are not supposed to put videos on SI. Please watch it is powerful and very timely for everybody.

Thanks again for this thread because it is very important. This is certainly a foothold that the devil has made into the church, and we need to kick him out.

I appreciate your post so very much. I also watched the you tube video that was on an earlier post which is very good. I have worked with the public for several years and observed how women dress which makes me blush in shame for them and I am a woman. I have had girls gripe about some guys that can't keep away from them and never stop to see it is their fault by what they are wearing and how they conduct themselves. We are "to dress modestly with shamefacedness" 1 Tim.2:9, which implies a certain shame in exposing the body. The source of modesty is in a persons heart or inner character. In other words the outward manifestation of inward purity. If the inside is pure it will show up on the outside not only by our dress but our manner of speech and actions.

Can't we all just simply say we are all to blame and guilty? Playing the blame game on this issue would be quite silly to present your case before a Just and Holy God on judgment day, I can just see men and women alike stammer with notecards as to why they aren't to blame for their sins when in reality we just need to look at the evidence and agree its strongly against us and that we need mercy. This would probably constitute as a meaningless argument because there would never really be a winner in this we either all agree that we are all to blame and guilty in God's eyes whether we are actually to blame or not, or we have a 100+ post thread that profits no one. We can simply draw to this simply conclusion Women dress purely, Men keep your Eyes pure. Problem solved :) I am sure this will get pelted with some kind of disagreement but I pray that it doesn't that for the sake of peace we all take the blame that we are responsible for and do our part in helping our brothers and sisters with their walk in Christ :)

God Bless,
Matthew

Dear brother,

I am so happy for you. You just described my mind.

I had trouble with this topic for so long. I actually downloaded sermons from this site on modesty inorder to learn what is modest.

Not that I was unaware of it. But to realise that its true, a large number of professing Christians are not modest in their apparel. It's been something I found very hard to overcome.

Out of His great mercy, the Holy Spirit asks me to turn my eyes away from evil, and thats what I have been doing when confronting such things. The world around is just getting worst. I hate watching my television and also hate walking around in malls. Because I am not super strong and I am prone to wander.

Brother, I am so happy that you were honest.

God bless you and also all those who give their ears to the Lord.

In Christ,
Joe

I understand completely I accept full responsibility for what I am responsible for :)

I can only do my part though, I can promote Modesty however I can't make anyone do anything, I can however set a Godly example for other men to follow. With this attitude from the entire Christian community if it is truly as large and influential as it sometimes says it is then the media would have to be changed. However In all of this I keep in mind that God will be looking solely at my heart and deeds to judge me and He will look solely at your heart and deeds when He judges you. I understand being my brother's keeper but if I correct my brother and he refuses to change and I go through the process of Matthew 18 sets up then I have done all I can. I won't be judged for your actions and so ultimately it is my actions that matter for my case on Judgment day however looking at the Word of God I am already greatly disqualified without Christ and His precious Blood.

I am not turning a blind eye, I am saying that I am trying to set a godly example for others to following and promoting modesty and equality for women. I again will take full responsibility for any and all blame that is afforded to me, God will not hold me responsible for the actions of others especially if I am doing my part in this fight for Godliness. I believe this is a vain argument since I believe we can all agree that this is a problem and that women should be treated equally.

I am blaming both man and woman in this because both parties are responsible, This again is a useless argument in the Christian realm because any Spirit filled male that is truly following after Christ won't be advocating immodesty and UNequality of woman and a Woman that is Spirit filled won't care what a male thinks of them because they aren't of this world anymore nor love the things of this world. Both are responsible it is going to take both parties acknowledging their folly and accept their sin, confess their sin, and Repent of their sin in order for this to see any results. When I do a message about modesty I get both sides of the coin a assure you, Sis. Men and Women are equally depraved spiritually and ALL need Jesus on the day of Judgment and in their everyday life.

*edit added Un to equality forgot it the first time :)*

I agree wholeheartily. In all reality its a very vicious cycle to look at culturally. Women want a mate, find that they can attract a mate by lowering their standard of dress but by doing so lower their standard of mate they attract, Men on the other side of the coin are looking for a mate and see all these beautiful females while seemingly ignoring any that have modesty for a good looking girl rather than a girl that has personality or morals. I really hate blaming society because our society is a corrupt one, As Christians we aren't to conform to the pattern of this world any longer. I would say that ALL Christians male and female need to set a higher standard for themselves. And I definitely see where you are coming from and I again acknowledge this deficeincy of the Male side of the church.

So would the message of the preacher on that message would have been received better if He was a woman rather being a man? I am not saying this for argument but for understanding, Should that preacher only speak on how corrupt man is and why they are to blame since he is a man or should the message have been equally yoked with blame for why the things in the church are the way they are?

I believe that sometimes the play of society shows that men are strong, which I find the exact opposite to be true, Men are very weak creatures, and probably should be regarded as such even Christian men. I hold this to be true that our standard of living even in the Christian realm is dropping. This again I will say is a senseless argument because Man can say I stumble and fall because of the way you dress and a Woman can say I dress this way because society and even Christian men thrust this upon me to be socially accepting. Either way its a rather poor excuse and I assure you, you will sound rather silly before a HOLY and JUST God saying Well Those Rotten Women dressed terribly or a woman saying You don't understand God I was a second class citizen on earth and so in order to be noticed or accepted I HAD to dress that way.

God gives us a Standard for US ALL, Its our job to strive after that standard and care very little what others think or react or even how they treat us. As I said earlier Women Dress Purely, MEN KEEP Your EYES PURE. We can go round and round with this argument of men in the church pushing stuff on woman in society and Church and men being the victim of a immodest woman that seeks attention. The issue of Equality of Woman I believe would make a great new thread, As for Dress and Modesty NEITHER SIDE has an Excuse for their action and Again I will accept FULL responsiblity for my action and treat them accordingly through repentance.

Brenda,

I wish you would quit blaming the men for their 'weakness' in this area. Your dislike for males is coming on strong. Methinks your attitude is not Godlike at all. The abuse you allegedly suffered at the hand of males has poisoned your attitude and needs to be left at the cross for cleansing.

The thread here is about modesty and now your posts are subverting it by splitting hairs over other male/female issues.

Men have a legitimate complaint. And it is not only them who hate immodesty godly females do it too. Then there are the lesbians who are also attracted to the female body for lustful purposes...immodesty effects all regardless who does it.

Males, I highly respect your bravery in speaking out on this issue, knowing you will risk the wrath of some.

God bless you!
ginnyrose

I feel I should come back and clear up some things. I feel that how I shared in this thread may have started some of the blaming that is going on and that was not my intention.I do apologize for that.

First let me share that the young ladies that I was speaking about in my previous post is in full support of modest dress for women. All of them are very mindful of the effect that their behavior and choices have on others around them. Also I should make clear that these women were not saying that women should use as an excuse to "catch" the eye of a man to dress inappropriately. I think with the exception of the one young lady who was sharing about her youth pastor most of these girls are hoping or wanting to see even more of this kind of teaching for both men and women to happen. The importance of dressing modestly for women and the importance of looking for Godly character and traits in a life long partner are something we should be teaching young men and women both. I think personally there is a need to teach that we should be mindful of one another and care for one another in such a way as to not blame each other but seek in Christ to help one another as we journey along.

Women/girls for the most part are not victims in this. I do believe some women in the church do know exactly what they are doing in the way they dress. They crave the attention(not because they are abused or treated unequally) but because they want the focus on them. For some women this is a vanity issue, they want men "to look" at them, period. It feeds self and they do not care if they cause another to stumble.

For some men this is a double standard, as in the case of the youth pastor that spent all his time teaching about modesty then did not practice it. As I shared with that young lady just because he was sinning and being a hypocrite does not give her the license to sin and tempt her brothers in Christ with the way she dresses. I am glad to say I have seen a real change of heart in this young woman and she is seeing that it doesn't matter what someone else says she needs to follow the standard that God gives us in the Bible. I also think she is really beginning to see that she is attending a very lukewarm church and that maybe God has some place else for her to be(but that is a whole other thread) Sadly the only reason this youth pastor chose to speak on modesty was because they are dealing with three teenage pregnancy in the group at the moment.

Overall I think that the brothers on this site shared wonderfully that not all men are hypocrites in this matter, and that many do care about more then just what the eyes can see. I think that Matthew has shared very well that he feels both sides are accountable to God and I agree with that statement.

I do think this is an issue that most guys struggle with way more(I have four sons) and I do think that girls/women do hold more power in this situation. No one is forcing these girls to wear the clothes they do or to behave provocatively. I also think that men need to be really accountable to treat women, all women as sisters. IF they keep that mind set when dealing with or talking to a sister in Christ they will be less inclined to play with her heart and cause her to stumble also. I think for most this issue is a matter of sin for guys because they deal with lust, but for girls they want so much to be loved and accepted its a matter of the heart. We need these kinds of teachings so girls will learn to respect themselves first and walk in what God has for them and not be consumed with giving their heart/body away to just anyone and catching the eye of ever guy that is around them.

Anyway this is gotten long, sorry. If any of my posts caused anyone to stumble then I do apologize it was not my intent or heart to do so. As I said I have four sons and I know that there needs to be a lot more teaching to address this issue for both young men and women. I still think that the first post was great and I really have enjoyed sharing it with others that I know including my boys. I think the responsibility falls on all our shoulders to help and encourage one another daily to walk in Him!

God Bless
mj

If you haven't heard of Keith and Melody Green, google them and be blessed! Melody had her own struggles with the issue, but you can read in this article how God led her in the issue.

Uncovering The Truth About Modesty

By Melody Green

"Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments; but rather by means of good works, as befits women making a claim to godliness." (I Tim 2:940)

This simple little Scripture certainly covers a lot of ground if we look at it closely. It especially becomes more clear when we consider the dictionary definitions of some of the key words (see box) that Paul uses. How many of us can say we are really living up to the light of this passage in I Timothy? The purpose of this article is to put a searchlight on our hearts and on our motives for the way that we choose to dress - and why. This is a subject that gets whispered or giggled about a lot, but rarely is someone directly confronted about their lack of modesty. It is a very delicate subject. . . but that's all the more reason to talk about it openly and honestly.

Are You Making A Claim To Godliness?
Essentially, the Scripture in I Timothy says that it's all right to dress however you want to, unless you are making a claim to godliness. In that case, the way that you dress (along with the rest of your life) must be subject to the guidelines and control of the Holy Spirit.

Our bodies are precious because they are a gift from God. They are attractive because God made us in His image for His pleasure (and if we are married, to please our mates as well). But God never intended us to flaunt ourselves or exhibit our bodies in an immodest way. He wants our bodies consecrated to him. "I urge you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship." (Rom. 12:1) It surely must grieve the Lord to see the thoughtless way so many "modern" Christians dress. It's true that their bodies may be a living sacrifice-but to which god?

Modest-Having a regard for decencies of behavior or dress; quiet and humble in appearance, style, etc.; not displaying one's body; not boastful or vain; unassuming; virtuous; shy or reserved; chaste.
Proper-Specially adapted or suitable; appropriate; conforming to an accepted standard; correct; fitting; right; decent.
Discreet-Lacking ostentation or pretension; "showing good judgment"; prudent; cautious; careful about what one says or does.

TRANSFORMED NOT CONFORMED
It might seem to many of us that modesty is a thing of the past. I know before I became a Christian I didn't have the slightest idea of what it meant to dress properly. Looking back, it's hard to believe I even left the house in some of the things I used to wear (and not wear!), let alone that I wore them without even a blush! (Jer. 6:15)

The Bible in very clear terms tells us not to be conformed to the world, but instead, to be transformed. (Rom. 12:2) Webster's Dictionary tells us that to be transformed means a change of outward appearance or inner nature. I guess that's why it amazes me to see young Christian girls (and even more mature women) in church or at outdoor gatherings, hands uplifted in praise to God, while dressed in clothes that definitely do not give Him the glory.

In the summertime especially, we have our biggest opportunity to test our consecration to Jesus. Sheer blouses, halter-tops, "short" shorts, and skimpy bathing-suits are the norm for many careless Christian women. They use the rationalization that "it's hot" or "I'm swimming" to excuse their lack of modesty. Clothes that fit too tightly, tops that are cut too low, and skirts that are cut too short are not only a distraction to those around us-but the wearers show an unloving lack of concern for their responsibility as a representative of Jesus.

Unfortunately, it seems that many Christians are lost in their own selfish little world-either oblivious or uncaring about the affect they have on others. They may even appear to have a real excitement and love for the Lord-however, their body is sending out a totally different message. I know, because as I said before, I have done it-partly in ignorance, but mostly in rebellion. I can remember thinking, "Well, it's not my fault if they can't keep their eyes off of me and on the Lord. They just aren't spiritual enough. Why should I have to change just because they are weak?"

But the Lord showed me that it was my fault. I was responsible for causing my brother to stumble and it had to change. Once I really saw the damage my selfishness was doing to others and to the Lord, I was really ashamed of myself and embarrassed that I had been representing Jesus in such an unbecoming way. "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks should come, but woe to him through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble." (Luke 17:1-2)

The Fashion Queen
Worldly dress is quite revealing. First and foremost it reveals a worldly heart It also reveals wrong priorities and areas that are not yielded to God. Being dressed in a worldly manner does not always mean that you are dressed immodestly. It may simply mean that your style is flashy or overdone-generally speaking, just "too much. " If your perfume arrives at church five minutes before you do, who are you trying to kid? Did you put it on for Jesus? If you are drawing attention to yourself, then you are drawing attention away from God and stealing His glory.

Here are some simple questions. Are you considered a trendsetter-usually the first to buy the latest style? Do you spend a lot of time and money shopping for new clothes? Are you always thinking about what you're going to wear? Do heads turn to see your newest outfit-and do you enjoy turning heads? If you can answer yes to even one of those questions, it's quite possible that you are seeking man's attention instead of God's. As a famous evangelist once said, "Be honest about it, would you take all this pain about your looks if every person were blind?"

Pretty...Not Painted
I believe that too many Christian women overdo it when it comes to putting on their make-up. They arrive to fellowship with the world's "come and get me" look painted on their face. They look like showgirls on their way to a nightclub, instead of someone coming in meekness and humility to meet their Lord. Their faces are prepared, but their hearts aren't! And if the Lord should really move in the meeting so as to bring some to tears of joy or repentance, they would have to fight back the tears for fear they would "ruin their face." How can you be open to a touch from God when you're so concerned about your outward appearance? It's very simple . . . you can't be!

"Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, but the woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised." (Proverbs 31:30)

Sheep In Wolves Clothing
I would also like to include a brief word to the fellows in this article, for you are not always exempt from the sin of vanity and the desire to be noticed. Sadly enough, I have seen many of my Christian brothers drawing attention to themselves by wearing immodestly tight clothing and looking "just like the world." Many thoughtless Christian men unbutton their shirts halfway down their chest, surround themselves in a potent cloud of after shave-and don't really care that they may be causing others to take their eyes off of Jesus. You too must be sensitive to others and give the Holy Spirit control of your life. You are responsible to surrender this whole area to Jesus and make sure that you are not causing those around you to stumble and fall.

Acting the Harlot?
God does not think beauty is evil-how could He, He invented it in the first place! But beauty corrupted becomes harlotry. In Ezekiel 16:14-15, God says, "Then your fame went forth among the nations on account of your beauty, for it was perfect because of My splendor which I bestowed on you. But you trusted in your beauty and played the harlot because of your fame, and you poured out your harlotries on every passerby who might be willing." Here God is speaking to Jerusalem about her abominations. He compares her to a harlot to make His point, since everyone is familiar with how a harlot acts. How many of you are acting like harlots-parading yourselves, seducing with your eyes and trusting in your looks to bring you love and acceptance instead of trusting in God and putting your confidence in Him? You have heard it said that "beauty is only skin deep"-and it's true. But God can see through to the inside, and the things that are beautiful to Him are not always apparent to the common eye.

Perfume, Powder, And Prayer (A Challenge)
The world teaches us that in order to be loved we must be beautiful, sensual, and alluring. We are assaulted daily by billboards, books, television programs, movies, and magazines that teach us "a different gospel." Sure, everyone wants to be loved . . . but why and by whom? All that is supposed to change when we meet Jesus.

I think we will all agree that God is most concerned with the Inner man . . . the heart. But I don't think we can say, "Well, I may look worldly, but Jesus knows that in my heart I'm not." It is true that Jesus knows our heart, but I believe in most instances our outward appearance reflects our inward condition. Remember, He called the Pharisees "white-washed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead mens bones and all uncleanness." (Matt. 23:27)

God tells us to redeem the time because the days are evil (Eph. 5:16), but many will spend more time in the morning preparing their "outward selves" than they do preparing themselves inwardly for the warfare of the day by seeking God in prayer and His Word. Sometimes we can spend so much time fixing up the outer man that the Spirit inside shrivels up and dies.

I want to present my brothers and sisters in the Lord with a challenge. Measure the time you spend "fixing yourself up" on a daily basis. Then give at least equal time to God in prayer and Bible reading every day. We all know He deserves so much more, but if you just start there, you can let it grow as you do.

The Other Extreme
I think it is important to make it clear that I don't think pretty clothes or a little bit of make-up is wrong. In fact, I don't necessarily think that the most godly way to dress is in a bland and unattractive manner. To be quite honest with you, I have seen many people go to the other extreme and try to draw attention to themselves by being untidy, unclean, and uncaring about themselves. They try to prove to others that they are spiritual because of their lack of concern about the way that they look This too can be another form of pride and self-righteousness-and I believe it is all equally grievous to the Lord. He wants us to find a balance and seek to glorify Him in everything we do. Humility and moderation are principles that the Bible clearly teaches.

Marriage Is No Excuse!
There are many husbands and wives who encourage (and sometimes even demand) their mates to "look sexy." They feel that since they're already married, it won't really hurt to "turn each other on" in the way that they look and dress. I don't think there is anything wrong with dressing to please your husband or wife, in fact I think it's important that you do, but not at the expense of others. We must stay within the boundaries of the Holy Spirit, putting Jesus and His pleasure first in all we do.

One newlywed in our ministry held up a bare little summer dress to her husband, and shaking her head said, "This has got to go." He said, "But . . that's one of my favorite dresses!" She said, "Yes, but why do you like it so much?" He slowly smiled and agreed-and out it went!

Closet Cleaning
Many of you may really feel convicted to change and wonder what you should do now, so I would like to give you a few words of simple advice before I close. First of all, go through your closets and drawers and pull out all of the clothing that obviously has to go-and get rid of it! Next, get in front of a full-length mirror, and try on the things that are questionable. Look at yourself from all angles using a hand-held mirror. Look at yourself close up and from far away and see what you "really look like" in the clothes you have been wearing. View yourself objectively, as if you were looking at someone else-and note what your first impressions are of "this person." Check for fit and transparency and get rid of anything that doesn't pass the test-this is no time to be sentimental! Finally, each day before you leave the house, do the "mirror check" on anything that hasn't previously been checked or if you have gained weight since last taking a look. You will be surprised to find that some of the things you were sure about won't pass the test. This will help you weed out your wardrobe as you go. Some of you may be afraid that if you do this, you'll end up with nothing left to wear! But just remember that the most important thing is to be obedient to God, even if it means having a very limited wardrobe. Besides, when you are all done with this project, you will become a much more careful shopper and end up being a better steward over God's money than you ever were before!

True Beauty
True beauty is Jesus and Him alone. Letting that love flow through us to others is the beauty that is pleasing to God. Paul says we are to adorn ourselves with good works. . . as servants of the Lord, vessels through which others can feel His touch on their lives. Why would we want to substitute the world's counterfeit for the real thing?

True beauty radiates from the face of a godly man or woman. You won't notice much what they really look like because you are too busy noticing Jesus in them. Shouldn't that be our goal? Let's allow Jesus to so fully indwell us that we would never do or say anything that would bring shame to His name . . . yielding our whole lives to Him and serving Him in the inner courts of His holiness. Let's not forget that we are His Bride-and so dress accordingly as we fully divorce ourselves from the world and clothe ourselves with the righteousness of God! (Isaiah 61:10)

May God bless you as you seek Him about what all this might mean to you personally. Please take the whole matter to heart (and prayer) and then be obedient to change the things in your life that you find are displeasing to God.

"Give unto the Lord the glory due His name; bring an offering, and come before Him; worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness." (I Chron. 16:29)

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rapists and men who hit and abuse women, i got no mercy time or patience for, period, end of sentence.

I wonder if on judgment day God will say this to you according to your sin. I have no tolerance for women being abused and rape however I can't say I have no mercy, time, or patience for the men that do these things. Christ died for everyones sins including theirs making everyone Savable. We are also called to do unto others as WE would want to be treated.

Jesus loved the whole world and died for the whole world not just the repentive, however we must repent turning to God to accept this gift of Grace. Such men that have raped and beaten women I look at and remind myself that I am just like them and infact worse. We ALL stand and look guilty before a Holy and Just God no matter how few sins we have committed All fall short All are guilty and deserve Hell. It is only by grace I have been saved, Christ Jesus came into this world to save Sinners of Whom I am the worst. We as Christian aren't called to judge the world because they stand condemned already, Our job is to interceed, be an example of God's Grace, and be a Witness of Jesus Christ. God will judge on the day appointed, do we have to tolerate abuse and rape? absolutely not but we have no right to cast judgment and decide who is worth our time, patience, and mercy. This sin is the same as the Pharisees when they questioned Jesus about being with the Tax Collectors, Publicans, and sinners. Jesus died for them all the same. I agree that this is a bit off topic, don't forget the Human Condition you decribed is the very condition we are in without Christ and the very same human condition that Christ came to redeem for Himself, does He not deserve the full reward of His Suffering?

Brother Grant, very good plea and post as well.

Saints, we are to walk in the Spirit, and thus we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Isn't it so simple?

My head is spinning from the exchanges back and forth of women's rights and man's wrongs etc. I can't blame my spiritual condition on history or my neighbor. I will be judged by the Word of God.

This post was begun by a brother in Christ pleading for his sisters in Christ to please walk in the Spirit.

From there it got sidetracked, and please be careful that you are not here to make trouble. We are living in perilous times, and men, I have two sons and grieve for them because of the blatant flaunting of flesh they are troubled by.

We are not living in the dark ages folks, although the spiritual darkness is great. Women's lib was not a move of God, and still isn't. It is not a matter of equality per se.

In Christ Jesus, there is neither male nor female but God Himself said that the woman was and is the weaker vessel, and that Eve was the first that sinned. Ladies, we must be careful what spirit we are of.

There is an issue here, and we are living in the last days and sin is rampant. God has given us an instruction Book and this is our plumbline.

Let us walk in the Spirit.

Thanks, Kathleen