A brother shared this with me and I thought it would be good to share because they are making it public on their site I think its ok to do so here. Pray for Paul Cain and others who are abusing the giftings of God by living in willful sin. This shows how dangerous it is to follow people telling the mind of the Lord but not living like the Lord.---October 19, 2004Paul Cain has been used mightily by the Lord to touch many lives in our times. He is esteemed by many around the world as a major prophetic voice and as a spiritual father. It would be hard to estimate the number who have been healed, delivered, or saved through his ministry. We have especially benefited from his friendship and ministry in too many ways to count. It is therefore with great sorrow that we publish the following.In February 2004, we were made aware that Paul had become an alcoholic. In April 2004, we confronted Paul with evidence that he had recently been involved in homosexual activity. Paul admitted to these sinful practices and was placed under discipline, agreeing to a process of restoration which the three of us would oversee. However, Paul has resisted this process and has continued in his sin. Therefore, after having exhausted the first two steps of Matthew 18:15-17, we now have a responsibility to bring this before the church. Our sincere hope remains to see Paul restored. We are deeply committed to Galatians 6:1, which states, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted.” We do not believe that Paul has committed anything that places him beyond the grace of God. We are hopeful that there are those who are more spiritual and wiser than we have been who can help Paul through a process of restoration in which we failed. We also remain open and desirous of helping Paul with his restoration process in any way we can. If restored, we believe that Paul can once again have an extraordinary ministry and be a significant blessing to the body of Christ.We apologize to the body of Christ for our lack of discernment in promoting Paul’s ministry while he had these significant strongholds in his life. We failed to see them until this year. It is also a mistake to assume that others who were close to Paul or worked with him shared these same problems. We also do not feel that this should in any way negate or reduce the great benefit that Paul’s ministry has been to so many in the past. We hope that Paul can yet be restored and used again for the glory of God in the wonderful way that so many of us have been blessed to see in the past. With our deepest regrets and sincerity,Rick Joyner Jack DeereMike Bicklehttp://www.morningstarministries.org/pages/special_bulletins/SB_Current.html
Special Bulletin by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and Jack Deere re: Paul Cain
I also received this email. I didn't want to post it because I didn't want to start anything or start gossip really. My first thought is that I was not really surprised, but again surprised at the way they handled it. My heart goes out to all of the people who have listened to this man's words "from the Lord" and teachings while his heart was in sin. This is so dangerous. Though I feel we are all able to fall at times, those who are mouthpieces for the Lord have a huge responsiblity to keep their hearts pure. The word cannot be pure that filters through an impure heart.I myself, have many times prayed that the Lord would never let me speak on His behalf if my heart was not right. I could not bear the idea of thinking that I might deceive anyone by my "words' that may be corrupted because of sin. This is my worst night mare.I cannot imagine that the others who are involved with Mr. cain could trust his teachings and words from the Lord when it has not come from a pure vessel, a surrendered vessel. This is agonizing to me and the consequences will not be minimal.I don't think that we should take a "look, see what they really are" , or "oh, I am so glad I am not one of them" because this is what the pharisee said-- but I do hope that God's justice is served in this situation for all involved, for the sake of God's name and glory.I hope people realize that God's mouthpieces are few and far between and not for sale in anyway shape or form. Maybe this will turn the "prophetic community" upside down. I pray that it does. I pray they do not come to his defense and make excuses, for the Lord's word is nothing to play around with. I pray that it causes them to question many things. I know many of these people and the people who follow their teachings, are very well meaning- but sin is sin. God demands purity and Christ-likeness in the people He uses.Can I just add that as to the question of who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE. God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself. This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "Cursed is the man who trusts in man (and man's ways and teachings)"-"Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord". I don't mean to sound condescending and flipant, I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself more for their wisdom- man is infallible, man is not perfect. Let us get our wisdom and direction from the true Source. People should not follow any man- only Jesus.May the Lord get glory from all that is done. May He be glorified in the earth and in our hearts. May we be satisfied in Him enough to keep our hearts pure and obey Him. May we be satisfied in Him and Him alone. In Him, Chanin
Though I feel we are all able to fall at times, those who are mouthpieces for the Lord have a huge responsiblity to keep their hearts pure. The word cannot be pure that filters through an impure heart.Yes thats so true Chanin! great comments. I really feel the same as you on this.. what a responsibility for each Christian especially those that speak the oracles of God to men. And I love that verse in Isaiah "trust no man" God showed it to me very early on in my christian life and it cemented itself in my heart.
I never really followed any big ministry myself personally except Wilkerson's.I believe that The Lord wants the body of Christ to wake up to the reality that it's a body of believers who make the ministry.As for edification whle God places certain giftings "in" the body they aren't always "in" the pulpit.The more we as individual believers learn to go directly to Jesus as our primary source for all things that pretain to life and godiliness and learn to properly discern the gifting from the vessel through whom it flows---especially in charismatic circles----the less frequent it will be that our leadership will fail since they no long will be the focus of everyones attention. In America if satan can take out one leader he can effectively take down thousands of believers. We as believers have a responsibility to lift Jesus up and hold our leaders accountable but keep them on the same level--as it were-- that we are.No higher or no lower.Rember Jesus said the greatest among you will be servant of all.Servant.We are all called to be servants.I believe the last move of God's Spirit in America is going to be in the local churches and spill over into the world around them. I will pray for brother Paul Cain EZE 33:13 none of his righteous deeds will be rembered----used the same way that God says your sins I will rember no more.This Brother needs serious pray now and the Almighty God of the Ages will through Jesus Christ bring him to a godly sorrow and repentance.Amen.
Can I just add that as to the question of who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE. God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself. This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "Cursed is the man who trusts in man (and man's ways and teachings)"-"Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord". I don't mean to sound condescending and flipant, I am just agonized that people don't look to the Lord Himself more for their wisdom- man is infallible, man is not perfect. Let us get our wisdom and direction from the true Source. People should not follow any man- only Jesus.Hi sis, moved my reply over to another new post as it seemed best: 1Jo 2:27 "no need that anyone should teach you"
I'm sorry to have to do this, but I've got so much stirring in me from reading 3 different threads, that it's all running together now. Ok, I read the thread about the Rick Joyner bulletin. I read the thread about hidden sins of the heart, and I read Mike's new thread about having need that no man teach you. I am beside myself ( and it's probably obvious by my ramblings.) It seems obvious to me, especially when I consider what's happening in my own spiritual walk, that God has drawn a line in the spirit. We cannot continue in sin, PERIOD. He is calling his Bride to holiness. I hope that I am not being presumptuous in doing this, but I received a word from God for the Body of Christ in May of this year. I would like to post it here, if I may...but first, let me say, that I find myself in the warning category...read on, you'll see what I mean...A Word from God to the Churchgiven on May 18, 2004I say, the Wind of my Spirit is about to blow across this continent, says the Lord. This is my warning and my decree and my promise. The warning is to those who have been lukewarm in their seeking. The decree is to my enemy, here, to let my people go!The promise is to those who have submitted themselves to me and cried out to me that I will pour out my spirit in these Last Days.I say to those recieving the warning, put on your sackcloth and ashes. Rend your garments. Weep and mourn and seek me with your whole heart and I will breathe on your dead bones. Don't kid yourself any longer. You have thought that you were rich, but the truth is, you are in abject spiritual poverty. You have thought that you were fully clothed, but the truth is, you are naked. Pray that I will have mercy upon you and open the eyes of your understanding. Humble yourselves before me until you feel the wind of my Spirit. If something inside you wiggles or jumps as a witness to this word, then lay yourself before me as an offering and I will consume the sacrifice, says the Lord.Now, to my enemies, you Jezebel, who has intimidated and held my people, I say, "It's over! Your time is up! Release your position, now!" Blow, Wind, upon my enemies for destruction!Blow, Wind, upon those lukewarm to bring division!Blow, Wind upon my people to bring the Last Days promised revival!To you who believe me, I will release a new wine and I will make you a new wineskin to contain it. You will be changed in this hour! There will be no more looking back. Look not, back! Flee to the spiritual mountains, the high places which you have dreamed about! Run! Run now, to me! Remember not the former days of thy spiritual youth. Run to me, now! We have a work to do. Fear not. Do not be dismayed, for I will take you there! I will not leave you. Don't look at the appearance of anything which opposes me. Look always to me and I will carry you over the top.I believe the enemy called Jezebel is the spirit of religion which has held back the church here in North America. The reign of this spirit is over. God has commanded it. The time has come for the church to arise from her slumber. Anyone continuing to sleep will be found locked out of the wedding celebration. Oh God, help your people, now, In Jesus Name.
Spitfire our Lord said in His word to you;"If something inside you wiggles or jumps as a witness to this word, then lay yourself before me as an offering and I will consume the sacrifice, says the Lord".Concider me crispy! ... One can put to flight 1,000 ... two can put to flight 10,000 ... i touch and agree with you ... in Jesus all conquering name! .... Amen
Yes Dian, Jesus is coming back for his bride, pure and unblemished. It's a call to seek Jesus and Him alone. That message is coming at me from all directions.I thought about the passage below regarding my own spiritual state. It's from the Message Bible.(Psa 106:43) Over and over God rescued them, but they never learned-- until finally their sins destroyed them.(Psa 106:44) Still, when God saw the trouble they were in and heard their cries for help,(Psa 106:45) He remembered his Covenant with them, and, immense with love, took them by the hand.(Psa 106:46) He poured out his mercy on them while their captors looked on, amazed.
It's not gossip if it's true and persented in the right manner. If we can do nothing for the man but pray then lets start lifting him up to the lord. what is done in the dark will be bought to the light. The Lord and Holy Spirit is cleaning the house of god, it starts at the altar of God's temple. Let us pray about the work God is doing; that his will be done.
Help Guys--I'm having problems with this thread. Not the part about exposing Paul Cain's grievous sins. May he repent and seek God in brokenness. As we all must do, me included, thanks be to God Who forgives and cleanses....But that Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and John Deere are being held up as any kind of authority for the church.... here? On SI?Do you know these guys and their ministries? This is part of the 'prophetic' crowd that is heavily influencing all of Christianity right now, especially Arizona where I live. I have major questions about promoting them, even in this small way. They're off into questionable things, IMHO. My Big Gripe: Who appointed these guys to be prophets for the whole church? Why do so many people hang on their every word, like it's something from God Himself? Please look honestly at who they are, how they're living, what they're doing and teaching. Most of it's so hokey and shallow, I want to cry. Mrs. Fred
But that Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle, and John Deere are being held up as any kind of authority for the church.... here? On SI?I really don't agree with those men either mrs fred, I think its all in confusion that movement in christianity and is leading many astray. This article just shows the inconsistency and the danger of all that is happening. I dont trust any of these guys farther then I could thrown them. Lets get back to the word of God.
And that is the bottom line, Brother Greg. I couldn't agree more. Self-declared prophets make me nervous because I have seen too many charitans at work. Where these people are fallable, the Word Of God can always be trusted. Look not to others for the definitive Word, brothers and sisters, but to Christ.
Self-declared prophets make me nervous because I have seen too many charitans at work. PastorEd, who, exactly, is supposed to "declare" someone a prophet? Are you saying there aren't any in the body of Christ today? Having listened to alot of Rick Joyner's teachings, I believe you all better watch who you speak against. This man is full of humility. I understand he has people around him who aren't, but he is. We wouldn't want a she-bear to come out of the woods, now would we?
I dont trust any of these guys farther then I could thrown them.Greg, what's that about? Have you listened to any of Rick Joyner's teachings?
God chooses His prophets, Spitfire, not man. There are no self-appointed prophets. And a prophet, if he is truly of God, is right 100 percent of the time. So bring on the "she-bear." I'm wearing the full armor of God. If I believed everything Rick Joyner declared, I could no longer believe that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I think, therefore, that I will stick to the Word of God and make sure that those I harken to have stuck to it as well.
who, exactly, is supposed to "declare" someone a prophet? Are you saying there aren't any in the body of Christ today? No I think PastorEd is saying that being a prophet of God is self evident and its God that clearly calls a prophet and it will be somewhat obvious to all. For someone to say im a prophet and speak as a prophet but be speaking from his own mind that is problematic, many chapters in jeremiah deal with that sort of problem. There definetly has to be a prophetic voice somewhere but God doesn't always choose to trumpet it out int the open. Prophets are men that are consumed by God and follow His directions. Greg, what's that about? Have you listened to any of Rick Joyner's teachings?I have heard enough things from him and others around him to stay well clear. Just taking a quick look at his website: www.eaglestar.org shows the very dubious nature of this man in his books, articles, teachings: "overcoming the spirit of poverty" is there such a thing preaching by the apostle paul? God forbid. And what prophet sells land: http://www.eaglestar.org/pages/realestate/property_map.html Read hebrews 11 they were destitute, afflicted, they had no place to lay their head, they were not worthy of this world, please count me with this crowd and I will forfit the comfortable house on the property of a prophet.
This is what i feared might happen under this thread. please let's just preach Christ, and if we do, then the false will be exposed. This is not an opportunity to smear. We will all be held accountable for our words and actions, let us each worry about our own words and actions. Let's focus on Christ and what's is true than focus on what is not true and not Christ-like. The more we preach the true Christ, the more the false shows itself.God Himself is exposing all that is unacceptable. I think He is capable of doing His job. Let's keep our eyes (and tongues) on all that is good and pure and of good report. Believe me, I am speaking to myself here as well.In His love, Chanin
No I think PastorEd is saying that being a prophet of God is self evident and its God that clearly calls a prophet and it will be somewhat obvious to all.This makes absolutely no sense to me. What do you mean "self-evident"? What do you mean "somewhat obvious to all"?I have heard enough things from him and others around him to stay well clear.Have you listened to any of his teachings? I just think it is not wise to speak against someone you don't know.
God Himself is exposing all that is unacceptable. I think He is capable of doing His job. Let's keep our eyes (and tongues) on all that is good and pure and of good report. Believe me, I am speaking to myself here as well.Very true sister Chanin you know for the most part God has called me at SermonIndex to let the true light shine and not to name the darkness or to point fingers at it. But sometimes there is a time and place to lead people right and point out an obvious dangerous spiritual situation. What I quoted about Rick Joyner is something that should make people thing twice. I don't want to quote too many details but it should be obvious that people like Kenneth Copeland and himself that teach prosperity doctrines are in falsehood and need to come to the truth of the gospel. With that said you are very right Chanin that there really most of that time needs to be a focus soley on Christ but wouldn't you agree that sometimes the sad fact of false teachers needs to be pointed out and exposed? I see that in the bible where there is a small emphasis on that and I should follow suit? I would love more of your thoughts on that principle?This makes absolutely no sense to me. What do you mean "self-evident"? What do you mean "somewhat obvious to all"?Meaning that a prophet will be either stoned or his words will be accepted as from the lips of God. Its a holy calling and demands a very strong gravity and seriousness at all times. Bearing the word of God to a wayward people cannot be accompained by frivilous laughing and jesting. A prophet is a holy man of God that causes and brings a sense of Gods fearful holiness upon him.
ok, since you asked my humble opinion :-) I think just posting the article was a good way of "exposing" the truth. It was out there on the table for all to see. To me that is acceptable. You only put out there what was already said and people will decide (with the help of the Holy Spirit) what to make of this mess.This is such a delicate situation because we cannot go around bashing people. I know what you mean about feeling a sense of responsibility but the people I have learned the most from and have had the greatest respect for (Oswald Chambers for example) just preached the truth which left all that was "untruth" out in the open for me to see as untruth. I think also you have to be careful because of the rest of the sheep, we do not want to cause anyone to stumble over somehting like this. Some people are at different stages and still need more meat to grow on before their own eyes are open to all the truths that our eyes maybe open to.I believe it is better for someone to have the Lord open their eyes for themselves after a continuous diet of pure milk and meat and say "aha! I see because now I know what truth is and now I can see that maybe some of what i thought was truth, may not be". I just keep thinking that the Lord holds me accountable for what I, myself, say and do. So I am going to worry about that. I am not accountable for what anyone else does. I have sinned, I have fallen, I have said things that i thought were thoughts from God but my feelings and emotions got mixed in there too. I cannnot say "oh, that terrible man!" because sin is sin and I would be a hypocrite myself. I think it's ok to make people aware as you did, but to continue to knock them and smear and tear down- personally I am uncomfortable with that. I know, that's just me. :-) But, hey, I am learning slowly and patiently to be more Christ-like (I hope). I don't know, I guess I am mellowing with age and learning what's really important without letting the lesser stuff get my goat. :-) I want to grow and change into His image and going around griping about people just doesn't seem to fit that image. :-P There are so many things to argue about anymore that really don't make much of a difference in the long run. Only Jesus matters. Him and Him crucified. Oh, His wonderful, marvelous works. Isn't He awsome?! :-) p.s. this is only my own humble opinion and maybe where the Lord has me at this time :-? In Him, Chanin
(Oswald Chambers for example) just preached the truth which left all that was "untruth" out in the open for me to see as untruth. I think also you have to be careful because of the rest of the sheep, we do not want to cause anyone to stumble over somehting like this.yes Oswald Chambers is such a wonderful example of this Chanin, I really see so much stuff that I could post and refrain and I did post this one but I guess God has a purpose in it. I am not sure if you have had a chance to hear the latest sermons of david wilkerson from TSC but he is feeling the from the Lord to cry out against the prosperity gospel. He even knows there are some in his congregation that still hold to it and the teachers and he wants to protect his flock. I think in Gods econonmy there is a time very everything.I think it's ok to make people aware as you did, but to continue to knock them and smear and tear down- personally I am uncomfortable with that. I know, that's just me. But, hey, I am learning slowly and patiently to be more Christ-like (I hope). Yes my intentions are not to mar a person but I did have to point to the obvious, to neglect it on my part would be not right in my conscience. Its a fine line and I hope I have not crossed it, im not out to bash anyone or tear down but the scriptures can be quite blunt with false teaching especially the kind towards prosperity. I think you arent perfect chanin neither am I but I really am encouraged by much that you have to say and not every word is from God but definetly Christ shines through you and its awesome to see! you are right that we need to keep our eyes more on Jesus!
I am in agreement with you. I think in these types of situations we really need to pray before we post, as to 'what' and 'how' to say things. That it would be honoring to the Lord and come across in truth but also in love. That would make a huge difference. I think there is definitley a time and a place for someone like Wilkerson to preach against false teachings.(preach on, Brother!) These forums are so different. We are talking about a community here which we should all show respect and consider that there are others here who are not where we may be. I guess "season our words" comes to mind.Anyway, enough of all that. By the way, I thought Dian was right on about what she was feeling from the Lord - about her message of holiness. This sounds very familiar ;-) In His love, Chanin
Just a thought to consider---Jesus said you judge the prophet by his fruit Matt 7:15-20 pretty straight forward.You judge the message by whether it comes to pass deut 18:15-22 and also by who it makes you draw to , Jesus or something else-- deut 13:1-5 Pretty straight forward.In the new testament I believe while there may be prophets we as God's servants must be like the bereans who searched diligently to see if the things spoken were from God.It's really pretty easy.As to whether what they say comes to pass---it was in context of when they speak a prophetic blessing over you---if that comes to pass then you'll know ect...if not you need not fear them.We are all called to cry the warning of God to a wicked generation.We preach repentance for the remission of sins.In america we hold men in high esteem and by doing that we make them targets.Shame on us! Looking unto Jesus the......
If a man, who is looked upon as a prophet, is not able to make proper decisions as to what to eat and drink, he is no to be regarded as reliable in a prophetic setting. Prophecy pertains to personal conduct, to be brought away from the fleshly sphere.If a man, who is looked upon as a prophet, is not able to make proper decisions as to what kind of fraternities one may or may not take part of, he is no to be regarded as reliable in a prophetic setting. Prophecy pertains to a wall to be built against the enemy, to be able to discern truth and holiness.If a man, who is looked upon as a prophet, is not able to make proper decisions as to what kind of order, what kind of setting the prophetic testimony of Christ will have a functional display, he is no to be regarded as reliable in a prophetic setting. Prophecy pertains to insight into the ways of the Kingdom.Belonging to a so called prophetic fraternity, set up for mutual endorsement into which one is invited only if one move with the flow breaks the back of the prophetic office as such.We will end up with court prophets, armchair prophets, stage prophets and limelight prophets, vanity prophets and prosperity prophets.None of them will ever be able to bring a word from the Lord to a needy people.A major reason why revival tarries is that we do not care for a genuine prophetic office to be established.Lars W.
Meaning that a prophet will be either stoned or his words will be accepted as from the lips of God. Ok, so if he gets stoned, he is a prophet? If his words are accepted, he is not from God? Cause that's how Jesus said it is.I agree with Lars. There are way too many "so called prophets" tauting their own agenda. I'm really not trying to be an advocate, necessarily, of Rick Joyner. I just think you may have formed an opinion based on wrong things. The religious leaders of Jesus' day rejected his teachings because he broke the rules of the sabbath and other of their precious lines they had drawn. I think we need to be really cautious about stoning any "prophet". We may paint ourselves into a corner.
We seem to come to this topic from time to time and I thought it might be useful to see how the Bible views the prophetic realm. If we get a broad biblical view it may prevent us exalting the 'prophetic' above its right station but will hopefully also show us how 'the prophetic' is an integral part of God's workings with men.If you would be interested in a gentle biblical introduction please click here:Men Spake from God. Some aspects of the prophetic may surprize you!
Please allow me to also say this: I was someone who followed the whole "prophetic movement". I totally believed the "prosperity gospel". I have been highly regarded in circles as someone able to hear from God. I was all caught up in their endorsements. God has shown me the truth. But...I am extremely careful about firing off about someone not being from God. I would hate to find the baby laying where I through out the bathwater. I appreciate all of you, truly. You have helped me come to a better balance. All we really want to know is the truth, ain't it? I don't care if it comes from someone with green teeth. ;-)
If a man, who is looked upon as a prophet, is not able to make proper decisions as to what kind of fraternities one may or may not take part of, he is no to be regarded as reliable in a prophetic setting. Prophecy pertains to a wall to be built against the enemy, to be able to discern truth and holiness.For several years we have tried to stir proper response from Mr. Joyner as to his connection to certain fraternities which cannot by any means be defended within the framework of true prophetic testimony.We certainly need to be cautious and discerning when it comes to which voices are to be regarded as valid.L. W.
Truth is written in Scripture. The Word is the final Authority. If the message doesn't jell in the Word, then it cannot be considered of God and must be regarded as outside the Truth.
Hi Spitfire All we really want to know is the truth, ain't it? I don't care if it comes from someone with green teeth.Perhaps you should? Jesus silenced the truth when it came from a polluted source; Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God. And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not. (Luk 4:34-35 KJV)and Paul did the same; And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour. (Act 16:16-18 KJV)The character of the servant is of paramount importance in the kingdom of God. God is not a pragmatist. As Spurgeon used to say 'if God has not called a man to holiness, He has certainly not called him to the ministry'.
When I said I don't care if the truth comes from someone with green teeth, I mean someone that I would normally reject. I'm saying that I don't want my pride to cause me to overlook what God would say to me because I didn't like the vessel he picked to say it through. My reference to "green teeth" wasn't about sin.
"The issue of who is or who is not prophetically gifted should be the very last consideration for us during these important days. Instead, we should humble ourselves with prayer, and with fasting, asking the Lord to reveal His Son to us in an ever increasing way. If we would seek God for ourselves we would not need a prophet to confirm everything for us. At stake is the Testimony of Jesus, and right now that Testimony is broken down, due in part to the confusion and immaturity of the Church, and further complicated by a myriad of voices speaking on behalf of God when God has not sent them. We need to know God for ourselves before we can properly represent Him, or speak on His behalf, to the rest of the world. Every day I pray that the Lord will raise up Overcomers who will have the Revelation of Christ and will bear the Testimony of Jesus, who will demonstrate the preeminence of Christ over sin, self, and satan through "the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony, and the laying down of their lives" (Revelation 12:11). Will you be numbered with them?" -C. Brogden"...For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Rev.19:10 (as someone from Canada reminded me this morning :-) )In Him, Chanin
A major reason why revival tarries is that we do not care for a genuine prophetic office to be established.Brother Lars you are definetly right with that statement and I feel so strongly in that direction also. Its much like how Leonard Ravenhill himself was so strongly insisting the true role of the prophetic office, and how he was very careful and even shunned many self-professed prophets in his day."...For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Rev.19:10 (as someone from Canada reminded me this morningHmmm from Canada could that be me? [looks to the left and right] I guess so :-P Neat quote by chip brodgen chanin! He is definetly right that our main emphasis needs to be focused on being more Christ-like and being an overcomer, but that principle in itself already maintain there is the false and people that are not overcoming around you. "Testimony of Jesus" yes what a wonderful thing that is! what else really matters in the end.
Amen, More of Him and SermonIndex -- Amen
I think you're right.We've become a a society of individuals who all have thier rights and shame on anyone who would even think of bringing any type of correction.Trouble is that mind set is in the church of Jesus Christ.But it all points to the conditions prior to His return for his Bride.
This news saddens me, it is a tragedy to the body of christ. Why does it sadden me, because Paul Cain is a great man of God? because Paul Cain has squandered great gifting? or is it because it is a piece of the body that has been seperated from a righteous God. And my dear brothers and sisters this is all that matters. Our discernment level needs to risen on many fronts and in many areas of our own life. We need to be able to tell what is the Father and what is just merly words from men. The only way this occurence can take place is by our relationship to God through our union with Christ. We can figure nothing out, with out the Holy Spirit guiding us and revealing to us who Christ is inside of us. Brothers and Sisters I plead with you to seek who Christ is in you. HE IS YOUR ONLY HOPE OF GLORY. Blessings andyto see what the Father is doing and to hear what the Father is saying and conveying that is our only calling just as it was Jesus Christ only calling.
Thank you, Greg, Lars, Philologos. You've settled my uneasiness with this discussion. The early church 'fathers' (who would've rebuked us strongly for calling them that) spent most of their time preaching and writing against the heresies of their day. Examine the writings of Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Justin Martyr. The heresies of the first 300 years sound exactly like the prosperity gospel, and many other modern-day Christian teachings, frankly. These men, who died martyr's deaths for the faith, weren't afraid to 'name names'. They were far more concerned with the Lord Jesus and HIS Name. They felt a holy obligation to expose fraud, for the sake of the gospel. Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1 (first century AD)Mrs. Fred
who are the 3 most influential teachers/preachers who have influenced your life_ I say a big fat NONE. God alone has been my teacher and anyone else that has come along side and I have listened -it is just because they are confirming what the Lord has shown me Himself. This is why the Lord is competent to teach His own people and should be our source. "AMEN!!! I feel EXACTLY the same way. While studying the Book of John for our homefellowship meeting yesterday, something interesting popped out at me----it was not an earthshaking truth, just something confirmed to me through the Word. In Jn. 4:39-42 we see that personal testimony has a positive effect on evangelism as shown by the woman at the well (verse 39). However, what we also see is that the Lord's WORD is much more effective when it is experienced in a personal way. It is essential for genuine belief,trust and correct doctrine. Though many are drawn to the Lord through personal testimony (hearing others), scripture also teaches here not because of someone else's testimony are all(many more) fully convinced, but by the WORD OF GOD ("we heard it OURSELVES and KNOW that He is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the World" verse 41-42)..........Blessings.......... :-)
I feel that any non-Biblical message (article, sermon, book, etc.) is only a starting point for a Christian to begin study in a certain area. It is simply a collection of ideas by another person -- inspired or not -- that, at best, constitute the first step to a greater personal understanding of a theological idea. The final word, of course, lies in Scripture. But if we start following mortals and begin regarding their words as "scripture," that is were we are going run into trouble. We cannot substitute the word of man for the Word of God. If we do so, then, I fear, we are practicing idolatry.
Here is the latest follow up on the whole Paul Caine thing. If anyone is intersted.http://www.morningstarministries.org/pages/special_bulletins/SB_Current.html
I had not heard of any of these mentioned except Rick Joyner, but I loved your reply. If what we hear from man does not match up with the Word and if we don't have a relationship with God where he can teach us, we can easily be misled. God help us stay under the shadow of his Mighty Wing, and commune closely with the Spirit of Truth. If we are familiar with HIM that which is false is more easily spotted, and quickly. This is so sad, that Satan wreaks such havoc in the church, but oh that we would take seriously the warnings given in scripture. As Paul said in Acts 20:28-32, take heed, and then in v. 29 grievous wolves shall enter in among you, (v30) also out of your own selves shall men rise speaking perverse things, drawing away disciples after them.God help us to try the spirits to see if they be of Christ, and not follow the voice of anyone but the Shepherd's.
andrewjames wrote: This news saddens me, it is a tragedy to the body of christ. Why does it sadden me, because Paul Cain is a great man of God? because Paul Cain has squandered great gifting? or is it because it is a piece of the body that has been seperated from a righteous God. And my dear brothers and sisters this is all that matters.Amen AJ, amen:-),An interesting situation has arisen, in my life, regarding this very situation. Recently God revealed to me the increasing importance of being totally transparent in this day and age, through the teachings of Norman Grubb. This fact is something that I have "know about" as long as I've been "in this game", but knowledge of "truth" is more about "union" than mere "comprehension" (just chew on that one for awile if it don't make sense). I have been struggling with so many areas in my life, like dishonesty, lust, anger, etc, which I clearly heard God say he would not tolerate anymore. Understand that with these areas, I'm not talking about commiting fornication, involvment in pornography, open lying, judgemental critism (as opposed "perceiving faults" in a heart of geniune grief over the honor of God and the person concerned)...but occasional unclean thoughts, "self protecting" exaggeration, and allowing myself to "vent steam" (how's that for an excusable label) occasionally. Basically the He put it was, "Okay these things are not 'sins' in themselves, but they are simptoms of a deeper root problem. If you keep tolerating it, I'll be left with no other alternative but to allow it to surface into open transgression, if that's what it takes for you to acknowledge it."While discussing this with one of my peers, that I bounce ideas and concepts off, I perceived a certain hard-heartedness (this was later confessed) in this individual, which led me to present a small degree of "resistance" in the area of heart motives. In the conversation with him, he mentioned an affinity with Paul Cain, in terms of the gifts and calling he walked in. I left him with the warning that to presume a calling with the power that Cain apparently walked in, was a dangerous thing, and could easily verge on covertousness.In our next conversation, he was beginning to realise the necessity of allowing Christ full control of his life (something that this man "knew about", and was a catalyst in God opening my heart to this truth). He was begining to mention some areas that God was fingering in his life, although time revealed that the issues were primarily surface issues, that could be easily seen by all (this was on the 4th of October).Through that and the following week, God was increasing pressure, leading to my confession of hidden sins to my wife, which I tought I never would. Other people were coming for advice, only to hear what God was telling me to do. Lives were beginning to change all around me (a very humbling thing, which I loathe to have to confess my involvment...being comforted by the fact that the catalyst, used of God, were tales of my imperfections).For me, October 22 (the day I read the bulletin)was like the day the world stood still. The next day, my previously mentioned peer tried to contact me, do to some incredible discoveries made, whilst meditating on Gal 2:20, and 1 John 1:9. Upon seeing him, the following day, I showed him the bulletin, to which he simply nodded profusely. Immediately, the floudgates of pride were broken, with him owning up to hidden sins, which he had never told a soul.Brothers and sisters, I am fully convinced that God has allowed this event to show us that play time is over. We need to either put up, or shut up in "game" we call christianity. God isn't interested in our prayering, biblestudy, preaching, witnessing, activism, etc...unless we begin by openly admitting our hidden faults to our brethren. Anything else is pride, in the purest form.Either we put up our faults before men, or we shut up, denying their existance, only to have God "scream them from the rooftops".Anyway...that's what I think.
Art Katz shares a little insight of things to come. And was sadden about false prophets, in these end times. And God is exposing them. Download and listen to messages, as he what he preached on (last week).Click on this link to view and downloadAgainst False Prophets
Art Katz shares a little insight of things to come. And was sadden about false prophets, in these end times. And God is exposing them. Download and listen to messages, as he this only last week.Yes thank you dear brother for sharing that! If you want to hear it on SI its here:(The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy) Against False Prophets - by Art Katz (Jeremiah 23:14-40) - We read in the book of Jeremiah severe warnings and an outcry against prophets who have gone astray and lead God's people along with them in their web of deceit. The greatest malady in the Church today is the lack of the fear of God. May we examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith and the faith that is truly rooted in God's Word!