Against Denominations (i beg you all, please reason with me)

Brethren,
God knows i'm true when i say i don't set this post up as a strawman argument, and just by my saying, on an internet forum, "Against Denominations" really doesn't matter in the whole of God's Economy.

God put this leading in my heart a few years back, but i was sitting this morning, having a wee bit of coffee, and just flitting thru the Word.

i say flittling because i always try to go sequentially for a purpose, which is "reveal Your Son to me and in me", but this morning i felt a leading to read the first chapter of the First Epistle to the Corinthians, and i had previously underlined this passage: verse 10, 1st chapter

"I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." here's the Scriptural reference in KJV, as i quoted ESV 1 Corinthian:10

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment"

i had spent a week up in the "driftless region" of Wisconsin, thats the SW portion untouched by the glaciers that flattened out the productive farmlands of Minn, Iowa, Illinois, etc, and its this portion that was untouched.

i was staying with friends, they don't know God, i love them though, and maybe i'm a poor witness, but i would engage in my morning devotional reading of Scripture, and i would hear this, "if it works for you"....and in the background i would hear the "clip clop" of a pair of Amish riding in a buggy, and i would feel a Godly envy....they are a community rooted in Christ. ( i care not to 'argue' their doctrine with any of ya'll, coz i dont know their particular doctrinal differences) i just brought it up, because my heart does leap whenever i see them.....don't know why.

let me cut to the chase, i went up there to do some secular writing, which is my tentmaking, but i was also looking at a small farm for sale, beautiful little farm. i dont have the down yet, but God provides, and i drove thru a town i know well, population of 137 souls.

thats right, 137 souls. Now this town is named after an Old Testament figure...ohhhh, i'll tell you all, its called Boaz, and it's dying, no industry nearby, no way outside of dairy, or farming to make a living, in fact what made Boaz so popular back in the day, was that the town of Richland Center, the county seat, 5114 souls used to be "dry", but Boaz was not, so......you get the picture?

Richland Center isnt dry anymore, but the only business's in Boaz(outside the kwik-stop gas station on the main highway) are three really sad looking bars. i didnt go in, but you look at them, and they're dirty buildings, one is an old pre-fab, rusty pick-ups parked outside, you get the picture

BUT......right in the middle of this tiny town, is the most beautiful red brick, simple Church building, must of been built sometime between 1890-1925, but it looked as dead as pharoah's mummy. Not a sign outside, no shades on the windows, only a limestone sign built into the overhead lintel, and it said "Evangelical Lutheran", this limestone sign was old.

There was nothing, PHYSICAL, of this world, to indicate that there was anything going on in this building, but in this dirty poor lil hamlet, this building was the only thing of solid construction, and if you go into the realm of the Holy Spirit, there is a Godly metaphor...BUILT on the Foundation of Jesus, and i sat in my truck, just looking at that dear building, thinking, praying, and i said "Lord God, if you give me the funds, or the permission from whoever holds the deed, Revival starts here", and when i said to that God, He said, "let Revival start in your heart, start to burn".

just sitting out there, maybe i was waiting for a soul to come by, and ask what the story about that old Church was, and i KNEW right then, the "Sign" i would put over the limestone sign that read "evangelical lutheran" and you know what that wooden sign bolted into the brick would read?

JESUS.

No other sign in the yard, announcing this service, that service, no pithy quotes, just The Name, above all names,

JESUS.

no 501c3 non for profit formed, no professional pastor, no typical Sunday "service", stand up, sing a few songs, pass the offering plate, sit down, hear a "perfect" 3 point lecture, sermon lasting 25 to 45 minutes on the dot, prepared by a professionally seminary trained "pastor", once thats done, he might give an altar call, and start trafficking in "decisions", and heaven forbid, this "church" be without some "denominational covering".none of that. A place to pray, to tesify, to pray somemore, to weep, to pray some more, doors never locked, always open. different, but something like what used to be, as i read of in the Bible.

as i was sitting there, and as i sit here now, my soul and heart give witness to what happened in the Hebridean Islands of Scotland and how God used two old half blind widows, who exhorted the pastor MacKay, to gather the praying men of the community to cry out in the night watches, and then God tugged at the heart of dear Duncan Campbell, who had the good sense to listen to the Holy Ghost and make way for these lonely islands,and witness what happened then!

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1319

"When God Stepped Down From Heaven"---Duncan Campbell

(note to Greg, if you read this, the "CD quality" links to this appear to be broken...i'll pm you also)

if you stayed with me this far, please allow me to continue: in north america, this denomination thing isnt working, these doctrinal arguments we have arent working, our mega churches arent working, our cut and dried Sunday mornings arent working, all of our man centered religious enterprises arent working......how do i know this, the same reason, you all, dear beloved ones know this, look at the signs around you.....

pull open the secular newspapers, turn on that hideous box the TV and listen to what passes for news, everything is crumbling around us, all the man centered institutions of polis, of mercantilism, of money, they are collapsing, we have a hole in the ocean spewing out what was used by the merchants of the world AND us, to drink of the cup of luxuries. the opinionators of the day, all falling over themselves with the pointing finger, and the shrillness of their blame game, while the very world itself is set to light itself on fire, i could engage in a jeremiad, but to what point?

i sat in that truck, and prayed. I drove back to the city and talked to the Lord, i said to Jesus, "Lord, you know my sins, i cant conquer them in my power, i have no power, i need Your Power Jesus, i need the Comforter to make me as holy as a saved sinner can be"....and Praise Him, He talked to me, i'm thankful He even deigned to talk to a wretch like me. He told me what to do on my own perosnal sin issues.....and lets be real with each other, we all have them, sanctfication is an ongoing process.

So what about this lonely church building? who am i? i'm just a worm, and that aint just me engaging in faux humility, i know my place, but just one other brother and me, maybe a married couple, and a another brother and God in His Mercy, gives forth that humble building, what then?

post signs all about the county?

"COME TO THE REVIVAL MEETINGS!!!!"...?????

no.

we get on our faces, thru the night watches, and weep between the "porch and the altar" and beg God to pour down His Living Waters on a dry and thirsty ground.....we get desperate in our prayers, because we are desperate for God.

revival is not something man-made, we have ample evidence of that, God is Sovereign in Revival.

i bless and pray for the effort in Victoria, may God pour down Living Waters there!!!!

i just cant get my heart and my soul off that lil dead dry Church in Boaz, Wisconsin that should have a Sign that reads "Jesus" above the lintel.

which brings me back to the point of denominations, how has it gotten to this point?

so hopelessly divided, so impotent, yet so vociferously potent in all the intercine divisions, and the doctrinal divisons, incessant arguing over the letter of the law, i know it has to tear you all apart, it tears me apart, and heaven forbid, somebody should proclaim this backslidden state, because then they get tarred with that word, "ecumenical".....it's just words, wielded like swords, when Jesus Himself recognized dear Peter in that first Messianic Confession.......in Matthew 16:13-20

He didnt recognize Peter, per se, it was this Confession of Peter's:
"He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

then Jesus replied this:

"And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

permit me to say, as the Spirit leads, the "Rock" is that Confession, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God", and that Confession is the Rock, the Foundation that HE, JESUS said "I will build MY CHURCH"

Singular. Jesus didnt say "Church'ssssss" He said, "Church", and yet what have we and our forefathers done? How many denominations? How many divisions? how many "creeds", or 'confessions", or extra-canonical "traditions"?

and what did Jesus finish that CENTRAL Holy Premise off with?

"and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Jesus said "It", singular, meaning the Church. "It" and ever since 315 AD when the devil realized he couldnt squash the Church by rank murder and persecution, he figured out a new more devious strategy, "i'll join it, then i'll divide it", which is EXACTLY where we are today.

but i tell you this, that foul accuser, that enemy of all that is Good and Righteous has NOT "prevailed" against the Church.

God's watching us, Jesus is praying for us, so what do we do now?, and the only thing my heart testifies is this, individually we have to clean up our own acts, believe me, God knows how dark and craven my own heart is, i aint pointing any fingers, God forbid, and maybe we should GO BACK to that Original Confession of Peters,

"You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God"

and let That be the Spine of our Faith, and away with all the stuff that divides us, and then maybe we have to get very Godly intense on two Things,

A. radical travailing prayer to God to bring a true Holy Ghost Revival rooted in Messiah Jesus and the Blood that cleanses all sin.

B. radical love rooted in Messiah Jesus, that enables us to love with abandon even the most rank and foul God denying sinner that walked the face of this earth, coz the reality is, we aint too far behind them, if not even stevens, its just that God, not flesh and blood called us IN Christ, and we should be like those who just bolted out a burning barn, breathless and thanking God, not pounding our breasts and thanking God we arent like that sinner over there, as a certain Pharisee did when praying.

Radical Love, Radical Prayer, One Confession, One Church;

Oh Lord, please have mercy on us, we who have been given so much. Please Lord, pour down Your rain upon this dry and thirsty ground, and i beg you Lord, dont let these pitiful words of mine cast out in cyber space fall on deaf ears, and i implore you, help me to be as holy as possible while in this tent, in Jesus' Name, amen

"Hey brother, what makes a man a perfect man?"

The Ressurected Messiah's attoning Sacrificial Blood and the Indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us into all Truth.

That makes us "right" before God...perfect, i think not...come on, talk to me...dont worry, i didnt spill my heart to start a fight.

....and anyone that blessed me by even reading the words that God Almighty laid on my heart in the depths of my anquish, all i can say is "wow".......

and please forgive such an intellectually barren response as "wow", thats just the first word that came into my heart coz i thought i was going to get nailed.

thats why i prefaced the whole thing by saying i wasnt setting up a strawman argument...i wasnt, God forbid, i wasnt, i was just literally screaming in my heart what the Lord laid in it.

and while i'm reading, here's what my soul's mind turned to; there's still the "7,000"...and i beg ya'll, dont misinterpet that...within any church, any denomination there are dear precious souls who yearn for Jesus, love Jesus, love God....

i just thought of beautiful Elijah, scared and in flight, thinking he was all alone, hungry, hiding in the Kerith ravine, ravens feeding him, and believe me this pitiful poster thats writing to you is no Elijah, far from it......TOO far from it, coz i got some confessions.

recognizing this is a public forum, i'll try to dance around specifics, but let me say this, (and i will come back to this, coz i'm not going to let this thread go, its a Lifeline to me, and your encouragement is a blessing i can never repay this side of Heaven, may Jesus Name be praised!)

but right after i wrote this, yesterday, Lord's day, the spiritual warfare started, the devil was vexing me like the foul denom he is.

here's my sin, my thorn, among many; i smoke cigarettes.

and the saturday before, as i was driving BACK to Chicago, from Boaz, Jesus was merciful enough to speak with me in the Holy Ghost, you all know what i speak of, and He said "neil, you have to quit"...i said, "Yes Lord, but i have no power, i need Your Power".

so Sunday, i started chewing the nicotine gum and just praying, and nicotine is a terrible addictive thing, but i just kept praying.

You see in May 2002, when Jesus came to me and rescued me from the pit and the mire, within one week, i quit, and stayed quit until i came back to Chicago in 2006, after 4 months here, being back to the "old crew" (it aint their fault, its mine, i'm a weak vessel) but i went BACK to the old "dog's vomit"...and its killing me....LITERALLY, but thats the devils game, kill and destroy.

forgive me fot this "me me me" business, i just got to testify, i got to confess, i got to be real, no more games, Jesus knows i'm a man after His Own Heart, but i'm so weak and miserable, hell would be too good for me.

thats not just some pious platitude, thats the truth.

so anyway, as i was chewing the gum, during the day, and praying, reading the Word, i looked up, WHO this lil church in Boaz BELONGS to, and get this.....there's an Evan Luth church in Richland Center, who has the same phone number on that bldg, so i called, and i get this answering machine...hang up. apparently its just "shuttered property"....nobody uses it as God's House...nobody...there is no interest....its the sweetest most stout brick bldg you have ever seen....and as night came, my body started to shake, and the floodgates of hell opened upon me, i got up, walked to the 7-11, and bought a pack of cigarettes, and thats where we are now.

i woke, got in the Word, and God forgive me, burning cigarette in hand, read thru the mid section of 1st Corinthians, under terrible conviction, turned the computer on and read your blessed encouragements, your hearts, your forthtelling....and realized WITH HORROR, what a failure i am in Christ.

I KNOW that was a Word from God i recieved, both Jesus telling me to start cutting the sin outta my life, and my unpacking ON THIS FORUM about what lay in my heart about a small corner of our country, and then to have that Word buttressed by the saints on SI, confirmed and buttressed, to see for my eyes that my heart cry is not alone...and then what do i do?

i do the sin i do not want to do.

i gotta close this up, because God in His Mercy has allowed me to do a "mitzvah" (Hebrew for good thing) for a dear elderly widow who has been like a mother to me since i was a wee lad, i dont say that to boast, i say in thankfulness to Jesus, that maybe today i can bless ONE person, to LOVE ONE PERSON, with no agenda, but at the same time, i lay under such conviction of my barren state.

but i keep hearing the word, "Boaz, Boaz, Boaz"...oh how i wish i could be like the boy priest Samuel, who said, "Yes Lord" in the night watches, and i can only cry out to God, "i'm so weak, please please God help me"

Forgive me for faltering, please Jesus, guide me, help me, i want to be in Your Service, not just some sin soaked dog licking vomit and unprofitable.

if you read this far, my brothers and sisters, i can only Thank God for your love, neil, brokened.

Thanks Nate for that, enjoyed reading it.

The boy's name Boaz \\
boaz\\ is of Hebrew origin. Possibly "swiftness" or "strength". Biblical: names of several characters, including the second husband of Ruth, who treats her generously. Revived by the Puritans and occasionally used in England in the 17th and 18th centuries. Now very rare. Sometimes used in Jewish families.

God Bless you with an answer on that building Brother.

Hey Neil,

There are countless Christians from around the world who feel as you do. I have met so many personaly, at the revival conferences in Scotland (we had over 800 peopls from 20 different countries) and Wales and last year in Barnsdall Oklahoma, and also on my website, and they all feel the same way. The time is short and the Lord is calling His remnant people, whose only desire is to be in His presence and glorify the name which is above every name. That is why we are having another series of meetings in Barnsdall, at the same church where we had last years revival conference. We are calling it " A call to the Remnant." You may find many of these pieces interesting....... http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/the-remnants-reformation/

Come to Barnsdall brother and you will find many like-minded brothers and sisters ..........brother Frank

Mike writes..... "The only way to cease and desist from forming new denominations is to desist from critique of old denominations. Good luck with that."

I think the problem with that argument is that if it had been applied universally, there may have been no reformation at all. What a glorious thing that people came out of the Catholic church, an excellent and extremly brave fisrt step.

I just finished the book "The Pilgrim Church.' I would reccommend it, I think Greg threw up a link for it one time? Anyway, if you can get a hold of it, it is well worth the read. Often times down through the ages there was a beautiful unity between certain brothers and sisters of no particular denomination. And we also see that, often just prior to some of the great revivals of the past.

What I do agree with brother Compton is this, God's remnant people will be drawn together not by what they are mutually opposed to, but by what they desire more than anything. When God's presence departs, when the rain stops, the only important thing is to find that presence again. In the last few years I have witnessed many "strange bedfellows," come together to cry out to God because they know the time is short. I do believe that there is a new wineskin coming, have no idea what it looks like, but I do believe it will be made up of people's from different backgrounds, Penetecostals, Baptists (perhaps Bapticostals? :) Calvinists, Arminians all sorts of people. Impossible you say? Yes, certainly in the flesh such a thing is impossible.

Yet, as we know, there is nothing impossible for God. When the Love of God and the name of Jesus is elevated above the names of men, and He pours forth His Spirit, then, and only then, will we see a unity that perhaps we have not seen the likes of before, or perhaps have only had glimpses of. I have met wonderful people of many differing backgrounds, and what drew us to each other was a passion for Jesus and a desire to see Him glorifed in the earth. Idealistic? Perhaps. Should we strive towards perfection, or should we settle with conventional wisdom? When we see the woeful state of Christianity around the world, when you travel to Europe and see the death throes of Denominationalism, one may have a different opinion........brother Frank

I like your reply brother Mike. Its honest and real. There is certainly a tension, especially today, of right belief and right practice. If you believe all the right things but have never had a change of life, then where are you? Perhaps your theology is not perfect but you have been born-again, love Jesus and strive to please Him through your faith. Mike writes..........

'The bottom line is that I'm just tired of disappointing people. I'm always missing it on some point with some person. And it takes so much energy to talk to everyone who wants to 'correct' you, that I follow a non-rockaboatus policy these days."

I hear you man. What is truly important to me is if someone has been born-again and radically changed by God and on the journey. I can always have fellowship with such a man or woman, despite their backgrounds because love will win out between brothers and sisters.

"I spend time with Spurgeon and Thomas A Kempis, and am thankful to God for leading a quiet life."

Brother, the demon police may be after you for the latter choice above :) God bless you brother. May we both be found near to the heart of God........brother Frank

Well Neil?

Jolly good!

Though others are not against denominations, i for one definitely am.

Demoninationism is based on the pre-established Roman Catholic way of governing churches, yet, we see in the NT that it was the Elders that pastured the sheeple. Whether these elders were teacher/preacher, prophet, apostle, whatever, it was each local assembly answerable to Jesus Christ and not demoninational headquarters.

From as early as i can remember, my parents always saw to it that we kids saw a far bigger picture than just one demoninsinuation. Growing over the years, every time our family moved, -(some Scandahoovians just can never get that out of their blood)- we ended up in a different home church:
Mossionary Alliance, Swedish Missionary Alliance (aka: Covenant Church--attending the very same church as Steven Saint), Evangelical Free, A.G., 1st -3rd and Southern Baptist, attending a Christian Reformed (Calvinist) Church private school for 2 years, after Jesus recieved me, i spent alot of time with some charismatics on the back side of town and many Bible Studies at the Salvation Army... and many others. (

Often after Jesus Chose me, i just couldn't get enough, and still can't, of gathering with Jesus disciples, no matter where they may be found. My weeks since 1976 have many times been filled with different gatherings on different nights.)

It's not the people i hate, but the demoninations that constrict, opress, and possess them.

Is that really what Jesus is all about?

There's alot of people in many churches, yet true followers of Jesus are few and far between. Many are following--as stated in another post, "Dontcha' know?")-some favored theology or rushing to their own little corner of the Temple to worship thier pet doctrine.

___________________________________________________________________________________

Sometimes, after a session of prayer, the Spirit tells me to go to a certain place, and so i go. It's weird to some perhaps, yet this being obeyed, i will more often than not find myself meeting with an unannounced gathering of believers, and there is no talk about denominations. These gatherings are not following some 501c3 scheduled regimen. Everything is spontaneous, and nearly all the time is spend worshipping and praising Jesus.

"Jesus said to Kefa, "You are (a) pebble:(yet) upon (this) bedrock i build my assembly"

When Emanuel is served, there is no need for additional theological division nor doctrine. With God in our midsts, we have all the theology and doctrine we will ever need.

Acts 2:

42 They continued faithfully in the teaching of the emissaries, in fellowship, in breaking bread and in the prayers.

43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many miracles and signs took place through the emisaries.

44 All those trusting in Yeshua stayed together and had everything in common;

45 In fact, they sold their property and possessions and distributed the proceeds to all who were in need.

46 Continuing faithfully with singleness of purpose to meet in the Temple courts daily, and breaking bread in their several homes, they shared their food in joy and simplicity of heart,

47 Praising God and having the respect of all the people. And day after day, the Lord kept adding to them those who were being saved.

~CJB

It's seriously thought there is alot more that must change than what is currently thought.

It took persecution to get the first church to move out from Jerusalem, to Judea, and the uttermost ends of the earth.

This post-mordern ?Church? ?????
It will take alot more broken people and/or calamnity/ persecution to bring those who think they are autonomous christians or denominations back together again.

How many sheeple argue doctrine when death is knocking at their door?

Maybe that is what it will take for one accord: Heb. 12:2.

CIAO!
g
Acts 20:32

I am truly against denominationalism. The problem is we can't do without them.

There are too many different ideas out there that must put people in their "proper" place. For example, the many different branches of the Pentecostal's who believe in the manifestations of the holy Spirit whilest the many different Baptist branches do not, though there are branches within that that do, and there are branches within the Pentecostals that don't. ugh!!

There are over 40,000 different types of spiders. From one family of Spiders we have 40,000 different varieties.

With all our good intentions of having no walls, in this case, we must have them in order to function properly. We may never meet together under the same roof to worship, but we do meet each other on the street or in a house fellowship and we receive one another there. The Baptist doesn't hate the Pentecostal, nor vice versa, but it's just the way things are.

Only the Spirit of God can tear down the barriers, but even then, not all will be torn down as much as we would like to have it. Not everyone is receptive to the Holy Spirits leading, so we are going to have many walls remain.

Denominationalism is such an intricate web of intertwined ideas and thoughts. What once started out as the "Faith that was once delivered unto the saints" has so many facets and faces that if we were to look at it at once I think we'd look like Daniel when he said, "my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength."

I wish that there were no barriers, but my God, it's a mountain that even in my own strength I cannot move.

Daniel 10:8

before i write the other post i had in my heart, in this thread that is literally shaking me from stem to stern, i just wanted to say how much i love you and miss you. Normally this would be a PM, but sometimes you just got to publically proclaim love for a brother or sister you know, meaning i miss talking on the phone with you.

please dont take it as anything you 'did' or said...oh no, not the case at all.

Mike and i used to speak frequently and always had profitable wonderful discussions, and i miss that. Mike you are a dear precious soul, and i am richer for getting to know you and forgive me for not stopping by when me and my son were ripping from Cedar Point in Ohio down to Ripley, to investigate the routes and roots of the underground railroad in Ripley Ohio, and to plum Ripleys library to copy obscure documents on the ministry of Rev John Rankin, and to see his house on the hill so many escaped slaves made their way to.

truth be told, that summer i only had three weeks with him coz i was doing my play in Chicago, and i had only three weeks with the boy, and i love him so passionately, selfishly i wanted to grab every moment with him alone and not "share" him with anybody. i know that sounds stupid, i wanted to just take him down to Ripley so we could delve into Rev Rankins ministry together, he loved it, we found a wonderful riverfront house that rented for a low sum, ate together, studied together, went to the house 500 feet above the river, and i know it made quite an impression on him in Christ...believe me, he was not dragged on some boring turgid intellectual exercise, he wanted to go too, but i beg your forgiveness that we just blew by your house in Ohio. no excuse, just a father who wanted to relish every second, teaching my son. (as well as some fun at Cedar Point for him, i read while he rode) I had an inkling how God must of felt when His Son came down to earth, i can't imagine the grief God felt seeing His Son tortured on the Cross, what love. (i'll pm you my new phone)

thats my "public pm" to you...now you said something that just pricked my heart, and i think thru the Grace of God i might have some semblance of answer for us ALL....just my take, you wrote this:

" I'm just unable to find agreement with enough people these days to make any discussion fruitful. It seems these days one is always ready to disagree. Every viewpoint invites contradiction. And it takes too much energy to talk to everyone who wants to 'correct' you, that I follow a non-rockaboatus policy these days.)"

yes! yes! then you continued

"If there is going to be unity, it will need to be achieved on something other then uniformity and consensus. We are simply too democratized and consumerized to achieve a shared single monolithic point of view. It will have to be on some other basis that we unite."

You know how we unite?...and this is just my leading in the Lord, coz It's the Only Thing we have left in Christ.

we quit talking, and we gather together, get on our faces, or some on their knees, some in chairs, and we PRAY TOGETHER until God gives us the Answers, gives us the Holy Spirit, brings down Revival.

we just wait in prayer..TOGETHER.

and we have NO IDEA how long that takes, waiting until God salts us with fire, gives us revelations, prophecy....and i have no idea how that PHYSICALLY happens because you're in Ohio, i'm in Chicago, Scottish Frank is in ????, this saint is here, that saint is there.

Thats why that lil church bldg in Boaz Wisconsin, lit me up in the Holy Ghost, all i want to do is to turn the lights off, light candles (not as a weird "mystical" thing), but cause the light is softer and older iffin you need to reference scripture while engaging in sold out intercessory prayer....just keep the candles away from drapes.

I just get this intense message, leading from God, get that church building, ask the Lord for at the very least one other brother (two by two) and just lay out on the floor every night, and beg God to have His Way with us, use us.....please bring the "helpless and harrassed sheep"

in my humble opinion, and i've been guiltier than most, the time for talking and fussing about this and that should be over, we better start praying hard, rains a coming.

i love you brother Mikey, i got to write another post coz i just been staring at the SI logo for 4 hours, just talking to God and playing old compilations He and i cut together.

neil xo

Hey brother Neil, Scottish Frank is in Kansas :) But we can all be in in Barnsdall Oklahoma come October :) God bless you bro...............Frank

The differences in our understanding of the scriptures is not the problem. We cannot be one in this manner as our understanding can only grow as our spirits develop. The divisions are caused through not tolerating others who disagree with us, so long as we are born again of the Spirit of God. Breaking the bond of love on the grounds of such disagreement is sin and only when we have the love of God in our hearts will we be able to love one another despite differences. The flesh makes us go off and form a new denomination. We can easily continue with one another despite disagrements if we do not insist on bringing things into the meeting that will divide. We can listen to the word, sit in silence to hear God speak and sing the ancient hymns together on a Sunday, then meet with others of like mind through the week if we wish, to practise whatever our own differences are. It is this refusal to meet together on a Sunday if we disagree that causes the problem.

The internet has been wonderful in bringing us together in this way despite the conflicts. At least it can lead us to see exactly how much of God`s love there is within us and maybe this has been instrumental in bring people to have repentant hearts and long for revival.

You all are literally saving my life.

i'm not kidding or being overdramatic, just fact.

as i said to Mike C, i've been staring at the SI logo for 4 hours, and listening to one of the ministries God the Holy Ghost had me doing a few years back.

i just want to say this first, in no way, am i "anti-denominational"...i don't wish to insult or argue with any good and Godly saint on this forum, i'm just so moved and heartened that there are Godly brothers and sisters who share some of my heart longings regarding letting the only sign on a Church just be The Name......"JESUS".

heartened and humbled there would be brothers and sisters
to even pray for me in regards to my sin issues.

i've made my living from creative endeavours for over 20 years, so naturally when i got saved by Jesus, i went towards that direction.

the concept of Revival intrigued me from minute one, so i did a google search and was blessed to find two websites, the just created "Sermonindex" and "fireonthealtar"

now Fire on the Altar was the ministry of a brother who went by "bought", a wonderful saint, and other believers made compilations there. In fact "bought" showed you where to get all the software tools to cut togther a compilation, words and music brought together, so i began.

i was devouring the Word, i was devouring accounts of those brothers in the Lord who's ministries i felt led to, David Brainerd, Frank Bartleman, Duncan Campbell

and i would pray to Jesus and then begin to cut together compilations, one of my first was called "Shake the Nation"

http://www.fireonthealtar.com/compilations/neil%20g/Shake%20the%20Nation.mp3

we cut this together in 2003, and i just re-listened to it, and i was so new in the Lord, but i felt his call on my life, what He wanted me to say. Shake the Nation was what He led me to say about this whole new world i was in\\

Then God gave me the comp, "As We Are One", which is very similiar to this discussion we are having now:

http://www.fireonthealtar.com/compilations/neil%20g/As%20We%20Are%20One.mp3

Then God got me on the subject of how we are "formed" in Him, and how we pluck others from the fire, and we cut togther "A Wee Story" it featured Ian Paisley speaking of evangelism, i was taken with the early preaching of Ian

http://www.fireonthealtar.com/compilations/neil%20g/A%20Wee%20Story2.mp3

and i wanted to share just one last comp, its Duncan Campbell, preacher and revivalist, i dearly love telling the story about a 16 year old lad, Donald MacPhail praying down God so powerfully onto a congregation, its a wonderful story, and when i cut all fopur of those in the 2003-4 period, why cant we have this again?

http://www.fireonthealtar.com/compilations/neil%20g/Young%20Donald%20MacPhail%20Prays%202.mp3

why cant we have this again?

i believe these four compilations will bless you, I just cant believe i was getting the word in 2003-4 and in 2010 is my heart being pricked.

neil

i've done a few compilations, the saints liked that

hey ya dear brother,

i'm just one lonely fella, struggling saint, whatever you want to call me, i have no desire to interfere on anyone else's "foundations", meaning "one big denomination", or "anti-denomination".

in this earlier post you wrote,

"Can you imagine a pentecostal arminian preaching to a crowd of 30% southern baptist calvinist? There would be little edification because of the disagreement."

my dear brother, i STILL to this date have very little idea what the whole "Cal/Arm" debate is all about.

truly.

and for the plethora of threads i've witnessed on such, i have little desire to delve deeply into such a disagreement.

and please dont mistake my tone in what i write to you, my tone is loving, though you cant hear my voice.

one ofg the early non-canonical books on the Faith that i read and re-read was Frank Bartlemans testimony on the events of and leading up to the Azusa Street revival in LA, 1906.

it made a huge impact on me, brother Frank engaged in completely Divinely committed ministry of intercessory prayer with another brother, brother Boehmer.

i have the book online, and i'm trying to figure out how to cut and paste a pdf doc to share the parts of his testimony, that impacted me.

there was one thing he wrote that just GOT me, he wrote and i paraphrase, the minute, the mission on Azusa Street put up a sign, that read "Apostolic Faith Mission", he felt thats when the revival went south, went away......he said thats when it become just another bit of sectarian division, ecclestiastical division.

now i recognize that a body of believers cant live in that high pitched intense state of "revival", to revive means to awaken or bring back what was once dead, and i guess some folks like to "get high" on the concept of "holy ghost chill thrills", there's a denomination that plays such games, and its a sad thing to witness and watch.

some saints get mad at that, i just think its all rather sad.

todays tuesday, i may call that other Lutheran church that presumably holds the property on that little church building in Boaz, i sure would like somebody to make a 3 foot tall by five foot long sign that reads JESUS, and put His Name on that building....and then what?

i dunno, get on faces and start to pray, clear out a room in the back for cots to sleep, and say "come".

once you prayerfully ask Jesus to be the Pastor of a church, it sure would be blessed to see what He does next.

i do have Scripture for that type of meeting.

please know how much i love you in the Spirit, in the Grace, in the Wholeness of the Lord Jesus. i'm speaking of your "the LEAST" post. more than just a 'post'.

more than a post, a word.

Since Saturday, this "name work" has dominated my every thought, every breath, and i was reflecting back on what has been noised about as recent "revivals".

i cant, i wont mention any of these "revivalists" by name, because there have been so many threads on them, and i really dont want to turn this thread into such, but i did notice a commonality in one of the more recent "show revivals"....everybody knows the man i'm speaking about now.

Did you all notice how the man's name was the BIG THING?

oh sure he spoke of Jesus, but it felt to me, the whole sad affair, widely publicized, widely disseminated in the secular media, was about him, let me call him, "Dot Rollsroyce"...it was all about him, and there were such antics, and the whole thing was televised.

TELEVISED! and Dot Rollsroyce actually consented to TV interviews, and the whole thing was televised via the internet, and it was like a big TV show, a performance, with build up, with drama, with wide gesticulations, the performer himself being garishly tatooed, and with all that MONEY (!) being taken in, you'd think the dear man would have enough sense to take the painful operations to wipe that mess off his body...

let me stop about "Dot"....i beg in the Lord that we all dont go down that, with this thread.

Tracy, it buttresses your point about being focused on BEING THE LEAST, and praise God, brother, truly, i am the least....again, thats not some pious phony humble platitude, ITS TRUE.

i have very little resource, i dont bemoan that fact. Sure it gets hard a bit, but i have food, clean drinking water, and money has never moved me that much, even when i was an unregenerate cur. i know and have known rich and intensely rich people, and these are some of the most unhappy and unfulfilled turbulent souls you've ever seen. i state the obvious when i say, and we all know:
money doesnt bring you happiness, quite the contrary, its a curse, because it becomes the biggest thing in your life, and your soul just empties out...i've SEEN this with my own eyes.

i'm the least because i have no job now, nor any hope of getting a secular job, because my body is ruined. Seriously. my secular friends darkly joke that i have 'one foot in the grave', and they laugh. that doesnt make me angry, or hurt, because i think, "if you only knew, what i know to be True"....its not that i LONG for death, its just that death of this clay jar doesnt have me bound up in FEAR, meaning that Jesus is True, in fact he has released me from the BONDAGE of the fear of death, its coils no longer enclose me, bind me.

i've done my secular tentmaking job for over 20 years, and a funny thing happened on the way to the Cross. In 2002, once Jesus called me, a Jew, my secular earnings went south, in a big way, Praise His Name!!!! God gave me the Grace to stay "like Job", i never ever cursed God.

why would i? WHO KNOWS His Will?....i dont.

i continue to write, secular things, for the marketplace, but no "bites".....maybe some of these "lines" i put out will yield fruit in the form of resource, but i know what its like to live on a nickel, God did give me a professional "success" in 2006 to 2009, but it yielded just enough money to live on, and at the same time, this "success", absolutely destroyed my body, not thru depravity, or proflifigate living, but because of the intensity of this job, however God gave me the ability, thru this "job", not only to preach the Gospel, but to bring much joy to many many people, and that was compensation enough...at the end of the evening, i had the heavenly privledge to shake all of their hands......to look into another persons eyes and see joy, pure joy is such a blessing, and i got the joy of holding onto their hand and saying, "May God bless you"....not only "saying" that in voice to them, but as i said it, i prayed it in my heart as i looked into the pools of their eyes...such joy is truely a blessing.

but thats gone, as it was meant to be.

In 2008, God almost brought me back Home, out of nowehere, i got hit with a virulent staph infection, that went septic, means my blood got poisoned, and i'm not being sarcastic, but that was a wonderful time. i freaked the hospital chaplain out. i think the dear man, a young man, i was 48 then, he must of been MAYBE 30, and from one of the mainline denominations, i had my Bible with me, and i summoned him immediately, this was the first couple of days, when i was teetering between here and Jerusalem, and i dont know if he expected to see a reed shaken by the wind, but i was of good spirits. (of course the dilaudid, space age hospital heroin was coursing thru my veins, the thing hurt a bit, but i was in the Holy Spirit too)

i just wanted to talk Scripture with him for a wee bit, you know? just have a lil bit of a hospital room Bible study, then i thought he might be up for laying hands on me, and praying God's healing over me....but i could sense he thought i was some religious nut job, and he prayed a prefunctory prayer over me, and never came back, though i asked for him. Thank God, the saints at my home Church in Northridge california were praying for me, my mentor, was going to fly out to be with me, Lord love dear Ted, but i told him stay,as the congregation needed him.

(thank you if your still with me, i got to testify)

in that hospital, i learned what the secular world thinks of us. The only thing that brought me to tears, was not fear of death itself. What made me weep, was the thought that i would leave my dear son, 12 years old at that time, too early. the world is a terrible place for the child spirit, and this dear boy was water baptized with me at age 7, AT HIS REQUEST. That day, when he was 7, he asked me if he could be water baptized with me, i asked him if he KNEW what that meant, and he said, "yes Daddy, it means that i have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Saviour" (his words exactly)...so we were knit together fearfully IN Christ, and i didnt want to leave him alone here on earth. God heard that heartcry..obviously. but my point is this:

they saw me weeping at times, and praying, and i guess, by rote or protocol, they sent in a secular psychiatrist. now i had resolved in Christ to be the best patient possible, so i welcomed the man in love, and told him EXACTLY what i was feeling. well, i read his "diagnosis" later, and he said soemthing to the effect of "patient believes God is talking with him", and "all he needs are his 'bible' and the 'healing power of god'....."regard patient as delusional"....it really broke my heart to read this, but then...come on, what did i expect?

But back to your forthtelling...THE LEAST, and i take your post as the Word of God filtered thru you to me, as an edict, as an encouragement, as an admonition.

i am the LEAST, because i am TOTALLY ABSOLUTELY disqualified from ANY Church 'leadership" position, its the truth, not fit as an 'elder' as my son's mother divorced me in 2004. we were seperated in 2002 when i came to Christ, and she knew, i would never even THINK of divorce, i was praying for reconciliation, and let her know that in love, we've always been the dearest of friends, pals, right to this very day, but she had met a man, and wanted to marry him, so she did.

at times i get lonely, and want to marry again, not out of a lust thing, but a "pal" thing, meaning our thing together was rooted in being dear friends. dysfunctional dear friends, but friends all the same....but God doesnt want that for me now, i know this.....

so i believe that being disqualified for any 'leadership' or 'elder' position makes me fit for three ministries, to clean the church, to prepare agape love feasts and to always always encourage the saints, my brothers and sisters in Jesus, like dear Barnabas, God love him, he didnt turn his back on Jihn Mark, when Mark bailed that first mission trip.

so sorry for going on and on, your post cleaved thru my heart like a bolt of lightening

FOUR BOLTS THROUGH AN OAK BOARD THAT READS

JESUS

and the doors of this Church are NEVER EVER LOCKED.

and WHEN God comes down in Power...WHEN, not if....

NO TV CAMERA's, no internet feed, no human names on the Work, no engaging personalities, no weirdness, no extra-canonical silliness, no screeching and begging for money, all we ever know is Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Risen from the dead, Alive right now, bearing the Gift of the Holy Spirit that indwells.

praying, laying on of hands, more praying, testimonies, reading from the Word, out loud, more praying, another room, the tarrying room, where one can be silent to seek the Lord, the breaking of bread together, more praying, if you have to groan in travail, GROAN, if you have to weep, WEEP, its okay, Jesus is here, and your brothers and sisters are here, more praying, gather food, find the poor, the widows, give them food, show them love, listen to them, never lock the doors, listen to all burdened sinners, never lock the doors, pray more, weep more, search the Scripture and what you find, READ IT ALOUD TO ALL, encourage all, love all, if we just allow Jesus to Pastor the flock, believe me, there will be NO DISORDER, expect the devil to fight like hell, to send unclean spirits into the work, no fighting, no fussing, just pray them RIGHT OUT of the meeting, out of the Church, God knows how to handle as such.

But never ever let that Name Sign, JESUS come off that lintel and be replaced by ANYTHING ELSE, never let any man 'claim' the work, never let any publicity hinder the work or seek publicity or praise from human lips or hands, and dont let it get to be a cult, meaning some man centered thing, bent on human will and the dark turbid urges of the manipulative human spirit, just keep our hearts and our eyes on JESUS and we wont sink below the waves.

God is so good, i didnt write anything below the words "Four Bolts", i just transcribed what the Holy Spirit told me.

i remain your loving brother in Christ Jesus, neil

dear "rbanks" (River banks?)

you wrote:

"Having the name Jesus on a church sign or anywhere else means nothing unless He is branded in your heart and life to the point that you are keeping His commandments"

TRUTH. amen.

then:

"If what you display on the outside does not line up with the inside, it will be a mockery and a sham. "

MORE TRUTH, hard Truth, God forbid it be so.

then you wrote

"Let’s have the Lord Jesus to clean up our own lives before we become an expert on how to clean up everybody else. As God enables us let’s do it one life at a time instead of just talking about trying to change the whole world."

i beg your forgiveness if it seems that's what i was saying, writing, coz that wasnt my leading nor intent, i find it hard to even clean my humble garret, let alone anybody else, so please forgive me if i seemed arrogant in my posts.

my dreams are of what it all must of been like at Antioch, when i stumbled upon a little church bldg in Boaz Wisconsin, thats all.

your words are wise, "one life at a time"...amen.

besides this ministry at SI, you know what ministry i really admire? and i love this dear brother, i so admire what Patrick Ersig is doing with the Jonah Project in downtown skid row LA. it takes my breath away.

neil

i recieve these in my email and had to post this:

Wednesday, June 9

Psalm 73:21-28
Numbers 26:25-56; Luke 1:26-38

Woe is me! I am lost, for I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a
people of unclean lips. Isaiah 6:5

The centurion sent friends to say to Jesus, 'Lord, do not trouble
yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof.' Luke 7:6

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us for we are sinners. Lord
Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us for we are sinners. Lord
Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us for we are sinners. Amen.

i was "raised" up in an Assemblies of God church and i was always betwist that they got that in their "have to's"....not to be "saved", but that THE evidence of a baptism in the Holy Ghost, THE evdience is speaking in glossolalia, unknown languages.

i've heard brothers prophesy in Church in tongues and in a second another brother translated, and i'm telling you, this wasnt cooked up, you could feel it in your spirit, but i've also heard of what you speak of , where men who havent got a handle on Messiah's Grace, say if you dont talk on tongues you aint saved, and its one of those instances where you want to say, "chapter and verse please?"

i like the Moravian saying.....in the essentials, unity.........fill in the rest