Some of you are going get very angry and mad.

God is going to be showering people with more grace and mercy in a greater way in these last days.

This will upset many people.

Who will be upset?
Those that have worked hard for God.
Those that have been dependable.
Those that have been responsible.
Those that have been faithful.
Those that have been dedicated.
Those who have been obedient to the law.
Those who have been moral.

Why will these people be mad and upset?

God will fully forgive and accept those who have been none of these things. He will embrace the undependable, the irresponsible, the unfaithful, the disobedient and the immoral. God will give these people His robe of righteousness without their repentance.

Look at the elder brother in the story that we call the periodical son.

Luke 15:22-32, "But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant. And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found."

If you are like the elder brother you will be mad because you have never been as bad as these others who have so wrong. You have been faithful and obedient and you want these people to somehow pay or be punished for their transgressions. You will be upset when God pours out his mercy and grace on these people in ways that you have never experienced.

When God moves in a revival of Grace and Mercy will you reject it because it does not fit in with your doctrine of repentance?

Amen this is a strong word of warning to us who feel we have more truth, more ministry experience and think we are better in the walk of holiness.

Oh may we grow in the grace and mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This sounds like he was manly interested in food and shelter.

The father did not let him even finish his memorized speech.

Luke 15:14-22, "And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:"

The real point here is the attitude of the elder brother who even refused to acknowledge his own brother.

Luke 15:27-30, "And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound. And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him. And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf."

by shadyg on 2010/6/11 12:32:01

ah...but the prodical son did repent.

------------------------------------------

.... and his brother didn't.

Beware and take heed.

Unforgiveness will kut us off from this grace so freely given.

i myself have been a sore-spot to many who have all the accolaides. i know several others who have been the fly in the ointment, too.

Second hand, though i did not want to even know, it has been told again and again, that "so-and -so thinks you or another brother is a liar" and "what makes him so special for God when he is not even in a 'ministry" "he doesn't live like i do", etc.

The sad part? i have been told to go to just a few (of many) of these unforgiving ones after they have walked away from grace through unforgiveness, and fallen from it. Their bitterness cuts them off. Much of what they have to deal with and God's ministry through them is harmed by their influence in this state.

Though in each instance of heeding that call, i have been priviledged to see restoration through repentance and conversion, just think if it never happened in the first place. It doesn't have to be that way.

Some people do not understand all that God has freely provided is as simple as asking and walking towards that request, believing God is well able, and will do as he says.

All in all, whether prodigal,obedient son, and/or our Father, it's about forgiveness.

CIAO!
g
Acts 20:32

It the difference between our selfs and God.
Walk in the everlasting covenant only in Jesus Christ or be cut off (through your own efforts):

Matthew 23:
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

James 2:
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Micah 6:
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

9 The LORD’S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it.

Hosea 6:
4 O Ephraim, what shall I do unto thee? O Judah, what shall I do unto thee? for your goodness is as a morning cloud, and as the early dew it goeth away.

5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.

6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

7 But they like men have transgressed the covenant: there have they dealt treacherously against me.

Jeremiah 9:
22 Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.

23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:

24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.

You can always tell if you know God in what He delights in doing, because He rubs off on you in a very big way. It's natural and effortless.

It's about forgiveness - (in judgement), which is as righteousness becomes us.

Edited: mixed up passages

by tuc on 2010/6/11 11:41:50

" ....He will embrace the undependable, the irresponsible, the unfaithful, the disobedient and the immoral. God will give these people His robe of righteousness...
----------------------------------------------------------
Reading this the first time something did not seem right.
It was re-read and wondered if you realized what you wrote (cont. from your text above):
...without their repentance."

It's understood that you meant that you need not make any sort of outward show of repentance, yet others may misunderstand.

Repentance was the young brother's turning FROM the pig stye and heading TOwards home:
I Sam. 16:7

You ended with:
"When God moves in a revival of Grace and Mercy will you reject it because it does not fit in with your doctrine of repentance?"

...and it's thought many who are praying for revival do not really have a clear picture of all the things that can and do happen...
...and more.

Anybody praying for revival, and has not been present in an 'outpouring', needs to look at historical accounts of what actually happens during these times.

(Anybody out there with some good suggestions in this regard???)

One booked account i have paid mind to is by Melchoir Tari about the revival in Soe, island of Timor, Indonesia. "Like a Mighty Wind" is the title.

Though i can't tell you the titles, i have read stuff accounted by Chas. Wesley and Chas. Finney.

Also, there are testimonies of several missionaries known, as well as what has been experienced at various locations here in the U.S.A.

From all that has been known, the one thing that stick in this mind is that those who oppose it, when there is an 'outpouring', no matter how hard they try to quell His Spirit's work, they are the ones forgotten.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Isaiah 57:
15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.

17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.

18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.

19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.

20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

Edited: typos

Judah, the older brother, was the heir and the rest of the tribes of Israel who went away and laid with harlots (with other countries) was this prodigal son. This is the true meaning of the parable.

It's pretty hard to say this of a Christian, since the Christian never leaves the house. He's either in Christ or he isn't. He is either transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light or he isn't. He's either sealed with the holy Ghost unto the day of redemption or he isn't. The blood of Jesus either covers him, or it doesn't.

God will fully forgive and accept those who have been none of these things. He will embrace the undependable, the irresponsible, the unfaithful, the disobedient and the immoral. God will give these people His robe of righteousness without their repentance.

Ginny and Mary Jane, you need to read what he was referring to and why it was said. There are no "red flags" if you took the time to understand what he was meaning.

Tuc was referring to the unrepented son who was to be heir of all that his father had.

Look at the Parable, that older brother was mad. He refused to go into the party, yet his father goes out to meet him and tells him that he is his heir to his property. Regardless of this son's position, he is still very much under the covering of his father.

Do you take the position that if you sin, you lose that righteous covering, even if you don't repent of that sin for a long time?

The greek word for repentance has nothing in it that says we are sorrowful.

The word repentance means "to change your mind" and nothing else.

Of sorrow and mourning and tears and on your knees and so on, there is nothing of these things in this word repentance.

The scripture, in another place makes it clear that there is sorrow that leads to repentance and there is sorrow that does not.

Maryjane and ginnyrose?
If the second post-(from phanetheus)-on page two of this thread is read, you will see further clarification.

ciao!
g
Acts 20:32

After dealing with me, God told me to come back here to clarify this issue of repentance further. Though my intentions were not to decieve, it has been brought to my attention that what was written previously might just cause that.

Yes, the word does mean exactly "to change your mind."

In context of it's Biblical meaning though, it is not what most consider it to be.

Based on the whole counsel of Scripture, to repent is to change your mind; but, in what way?

It is not in resolutions to change from doing what you think is bad to doing what you think is good, or anything related to this at all.

Biblical repentance is changing your mind in that you recognize that there is nothing you do that can ever satisfy God's holy standard, and in this comes the decision--i.e., repentance-- to rely on Him in obedience to His way of righteousness. This is all fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

ciao!

that is a most excellent personal revelation, the Kingdom of Heaven is near you, always cause for rejoicing.

and no i won't say "ciao", i'll say that i love you instead, hows that?, neil

It is not in resolutions to change from doing what you think is bad to doing what you think is good, or anything related to this at all. Biblical repentance is changing your mind in that you recognize that there is nothing you do that can ever satisfy God's holy standard, and in this comes the decision--i.e., repentance-- to rely on Him in obedience to His way of righteousness. This is all fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

Well Said!

A small interjection:

I just want to thank God for the "Cancel Post". There have been so many times that I have used that button, and today, I am glad to have used it again.

Reason 1: What's the point!
Reason 2: Who do you think you(me) are?

N4J, i love you, too. No more CIAO i guess. (It's so glib and cliche' anyway. It's a habit here to say it instead of goodby for now, good fortune to you.)

I am ever thankful to God that for those who voice agreement, just like those who care enough to disagree with what comes from here. Iron sharpens iron. Thanks guy for all of it: the good, the bad, and telling me when i am getting ugly.

It is Jesus Christ's work in this life that this realization continually grows clearer all the time. There is no other way. There never has been any other way and there never will be.

We can be sure of this in our heads, yet, for me at least, this in itself is a perpetual learning experience: "the simplicity in Christ." Christian maturity comes through: childlike dependence, this growing relationship with our Heavenly Father.

So many are the times it's thought "i done did dat'"... the "i surrender all" thingy.
Yet, in the living, sometimes it turns into a matter of time and again reassumimng the mind of Christ to see His resurrection life into personal circumstance, at that point where i should have never left off in the first place.

ginnyrose?
You sed:
Do we agree, gregg?
Well, it's seen where you are coming from, yet a few things are questioned about where your 2 previous post are leading.

Please do not think that i am in any way against you, because i am all for you!
It is prayed that God will reveal into your understanding His continual presence that the wisdom and knowledge resultingly found only through Jesus Christ becomes alive in you.

You are not a loner in what you voiced. Yet, if i am any way clear at all about what was typed, this is one concept that many Christians, myself included, have stumbled over and fallen as a result.

Sis, the questions that flew in my face when first reading your posts were a blinding barrage of 'where's that', 'how comes', 'whats', and 'whys'.

First, where does the Bible say to do as you advise(d)?
You say this is to "keep it simple?"

What could be simpler than depending on God in focusing on Jesus alone as our total and complete righteousness, sactification, and glorification?

Ok, this is just a first response. (Most everything will be covered in a different way in the upcoming thread "The Above 2 Mentioned Things. (in the 3rd writing, the Lord pulled me aside again, and said, "quit, let me show you a few things first"). What Follows would have been part of that upcoming thread, had He not straightened me out.

This is the problem thought to be parcel in what you wrote:
Decisions from our own self-determination and intentions are quite shakey in even the best case scenario.

i'm not just speaking about ideas that sound good.

Jesus Christ has freed me from a life of drug addictions and abuse. He has kept me free from heroin for well over 20 years now. He has also set me free from alcohol and sedatives, not to mention psychotropics and other mind-bending drugs that were at one time neccessary just to remain stable and merely function as a 'normal' cog in the machine called society.

By doing what Heb 12:2 exhorts, i have experienced so many things that are miraculous to others: healings, things recieved just before they were needed, answers to problems that seemed unsolvable, revelation in the scriptures (for use), miracles, literal physical strength alone (in Christ)when 3 men could not muscle the task, and the list could go on and on... but most of all, confidence in our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ with an ever expanding horizon through walking with Him.

Here's just a few of the many questions that came up sister Ginny:

Is what i determine through my own effort going to get God to serve my desired intentions?

Is search after holiness/obedience prerequisite to relationship with God...
...and along the same line, how many that crossed paths and interacted with Jesus came to Him for holiness or to strive in their flesh to obey Him better?

Is this effort to be holy to: make myself better, human relationships better, life in general better, etc... or is the purpose primarily towards a deepened relationship with God who loves us so much, he gave his Son, Jesus Christ who offered up His body and blood to satisfy ALREADY the debt we can never repay?

Are we striving for something in ourselves that He has already accomplished on our behalf?

What you mentioned as simple, sound like something heard about once, that old Methodists would stuggle through: begging and pleading, doing everything in their power to overcome the nature to sin.

Is this what you are talking about?

This thread began by tuc talking about a prodigal, and that was where response from here was geared, however, this applies to everything in relating with our Father in Heaven.

God has one way and one method to make a person right with Him. It is simply by turning to Him on His terms.

Trying to fight off sin is what makes us turn our back on relationship with God and turn to working on our sin.

Holiness and sin cannot co-exist except in God's forebearance.

Assuming Jesus victory as ours is much simpler than going through agonizations, though the effort may be therapeutically cathartic.

Our dependence on God (alone) need ever remain fixed in what Jesus Christ has completed in His willing sacrafice.

Paris Reidhead, in one of his sermons stated,
"GOD'S WORK must be done GOD'S WAY in GOD'S TIME."
It applies in this issue just as much in ministry.

John the apostle wrote, "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down His life for us." He goes on to reveal that "we should lay down our lives for one another", and the very first another we need do this towards is Jesus Christ himself.
(Mt. 10:24, 25, 32, 33, 38, 39)

Whether prodigal or not, when we begin to focus on correcting ourselves, we are no longer relying on Jesus, but our own know how and devisings.

Where is our purpose?

Is it in a deeper closer walk with God
or
is it in assuming that certain things are not pleasing God, so I must change?

As far as i know
there is one thing alone
that we can do
which pleases God
so that he overlooks our sin(s)
in forebearance
pleasing Him this one and only way.
(Heb. 11:6)

Romans speaks of Avraham doing this and God accounted him righteous through this trusting.

(How many people do you know that would tell you that they just had a meeting with God, and my name now is "father of many nations" not having one child of their own to show for it?)

Paul continues in this book to tell us that this is the way we get right with God.

If we believe He is and he rewards us when we seek (relationship with) Him His way, on His time scale. All the other things are provided as need be. as needed. It is only in establishing deeper relationship through pleasing Him that these things we notice as sin, and much more that we do not even recognize to be sin, falls away in the light of His glorious presence.

One example of this being right in God's eyes through pleasing Him
-(by faith(fulness) in relationship with Him)-
that has always caused me to reconsider myself is Job.
i can see flaw after flaw in Job, yet two if the the most prevalent things in his life that God despises were: 1.)fear (Job 3:25) and 2.)self-righteousness (Job 31, particularily note Job 31:35, 36, 37) yet, God in speaking to Satan says he is blameless. Nothing was said about his self-righteousness, and we are all pretty clear about avoiding this ourselves. Neither did God say anything about Job's fears, yet what do the sciptures reveal as the end result of fearfulness? (Rev. 21:8).

Most do not even realize that focusing on ourself (whether it's sin or achievements) rather than our Saviour puts us out of faith(fulness) towards Him. Pleading is hardly a sign of assurance in God's finished work through Jesus Christ.

Let's look at something else.

Whether prodigal, newly walking into salvation, or weathered saint, there remain things that are still sin. The prodigal may be contending with a seared conscience, where what once was thought sin is no longer even noticed. The new follower of Jesus has to grow into Christ. The seasoned saint could have a multiplicity of unresolved issues that are sin to them.

Holiness is not obedience.

Holiness is a state of being, and in Christ, we are as He already is, and seated in the heavenlies right there with Him.

Sin cannot touch what is holy, and through human reasoning, we fail to look at ourselves as God sees us in Christ Jesus.

The first chapter of James addresses the issue of residual sins and (literally in the greek) earwax, Jas. 1:21. The Word of God Himself cleanses (aka: santifies)us from filthiness and inability to hear God's revelation to us, (John 17:17; Eph. 5:25, 26; Heb. 4:12, 13).

Can anybody find pleading in this regenerative process? (Jas. 1:22-25)

One final point in relation to this.

Many misconstrue John, chapter three. Vv. 16 through the end of the chapter are not, contrary to red lettered editions, Jesus words. This is John's commentary on what Jesus said from 3.5 to 3.15.

Further Jesus' premise in Jn.3:5 is often mistaken. I've heard water being all kinds of silly notions, yet we all know that God's Spirit works through the Word of God. Look at the verses at the end of the paragraph four paragraphs above this one and see what water is in reference to. Also look to Isaiah 55, particularly Is. 55:1, 3, 8, 9, 10, 11.)

(there are alot of reasons why, in stating 'water', he is not referring to anything else, yet these are not going to be gone into unless someone doubts what has just been made known.)

Begging God to send His Spirit to change us without depending on the finished work in Jesus Christ, the Living Word of God, is just plain impossible.

You know, all there outward things, no matter what immorality, be it: drug abuse or anything else really are not the problem.

We can extract ourselves from our favored vice or sinful environment and still not alleviate the problem.

We can easily enough remove the things that entice us, yet the nature to sin still exist within us. Just because we eliminate environmental factors does not mean there is any regenerative change within our hearts. Though the sin may not manifest as it once did, it will manifest in other ways.

Unless God transforms our hearts through His Word of God heard, the finished work of Jesus Christ, and the work of His Spirit through this, there is no hope.

There is one thing far worse than any outward sin manifested. This is our nature to sin in the first place, which is in essence, not fearing God enough to believe what He says in the first place. (Jer. 17:9, 10).Not believing God does not please Him, and in doing anything towards this our propensity puts us out of His favor: fallen from His good graces.

Jesus made it possible for us to put the sin nature under. See Romans 5:5-8:2.

Do we agree, ginnyrose?

Love,
gregg

Trust and obey,
For there's no other way
To be happy in Jesus,
But to trust and obey.
Acts 20:32

edited: wrong verse

You must have a lot of time to write such a long post!

I have a computer at my work place and in this job there is a lot of sit down time. Sometimes when the Spirit of God is flowing from keyboard to screen a lot can be typed in just a few minutes of time. Once a thought is fixed, it can just roll out of you within just a few minutes, as a teacher I am sure you have experienced those moments.

by ginnyrose on 2010/6/15 19:02:04

Phanetheus,

You must have a lot of time to write such a long post!
-------------------------------------------------------------------
If you consider, i don't know, it wasn't timed; but it was less than 45 minutes.

Several times (more than 9) this was started and deleted.

Finally, i sought the Lord and the words bubbled up so fast there was trouble keeping up typing. It was checked for errors later, and the meaning was not lost so that was left alone. One scripture was realized to be a misquote and so that was changed.
________________________________________________________________________

ginnyrose:

Brother, I am not sure what your point is? You seem to say one thing and then at the end change your tune. Either I am dense or I am bored...maybe the latter? You see I hate wrangling with the scriptures which is why I say keep it simple. Males love to pick apart scriptures and look for obscure meanings and wrestle with it. But that one statement was a red flag - "God will give these people His robe of righteousness without their repentance" - and I commented on it, not knowing where the Scriptures will teach such a thing.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No change of tune. Though it was not stated, it will be for the record:

If the Holy Spirit has no material to transform us, no transformation occurs. God's Spirit functions through His Word, Jesus Christ, the living person of which Genesis to revelation becomes in us, by the work of the Holy Spirit through our obedience to GOD'S PLAN GOD'S WAY in GOD'S TIME.
(Jn. 14:23, 15:7, 8)

The Holy Spirit operates according to and by God's Word, not by pleading for him to change you. By keeping the scriptures before our thoughts and actions, transmogrification occurs: The life and nature of God manifests in us and works outward through the power behind the scripture, i.e., the Holy Spirit.

Attempting to clean our environment and outward actions never regenerates us.

Holiness is a state of existence and not obedience.

There is one way we are sanctified: Jn17:17, Eph. 5:26, 27
(Herein lies the path to holiness.
There is no other way.

Pleading does very little, though chastisement towards obedience does.
Heb. 12:4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

Why should anybody plead for God to do for them what he has already achieved for us, and accordingly commands that we walk in this way?
2 Pet. 1:2, 3, 4, 5

Jas. 1:16, 17, 18, 19 20, 21, 22

Red flagging tuc's first post is a result of after reading one sentence, then disregarding everything before and after that was written. Anything can be taken out of context and made into a lie.
________________________________________________________________________

g:
I am not going anywhere with it other then that the entire scriptures teach repentance. I thought I was clear...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is that all?

Repentance is only for those who desire to walk with God as part of His family.

The scriptures are all about forgiveness in forebearance, mercy in judgement, and righteousness. In one word, LOVE. In one name, Jesus.

Repentance is one aspect of this: the point of beginning and part of progressing in relationship with BOTH God and man.

Is this wrong?
________________________________________________________________________

g:

It is prayed that God will reveal into your understanding His continual presence that the wisdom and knowledge resulting found only through Jesus Christ becomes alive in you.

Did you not understand this when I wrote this: "I did tell my students this week they are powerless to quit sinning. They need to be empowered by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. One may resolve to quit but to carry this to fruition requires the grace of God enabling, strengthening you. And sometimes we do not want to quit but know we should. When this happens one needs to plead with the LORD Jesus to help you want to pursue holiness/obedience and give you the power to follow through."

Does this statement not make sense?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No it does not make sense.

The Holy Spirit's work of transformation is not possible without sacrafice.

Pleading with Jesus to help you pursue 'whatever' (your desire) is not submission. It is not humble and there is no contrition in it. It is trying to get God to do what you think is best.

This the nail being pounded. This is what all the previous post is about. When you were first addressed in it, one question was asked that still has not yet been answered:

Where does the Bible say to do this -(the paragraph you reiterate)?

You were told what works always, in me, and those who come to here for counseling.

It's God's design:

Point them to Jesus sacrafice, teaching them to assume this as their own. In this we put on the mind of Christ, who, (it is always added,) lived and breathed the scriptures as He was always about our Father's business. Follow His example.
________________________________________________________________________

ginnyrose:
I do not see where we can be righteous on our own strength, but need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to accomplish this. When this is operational in ones life, holiness will result. But you must want it. God ain't gonna do it without your cooperation.

This is all I meant...and I love 2 Timothy 1:12.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Righteousness has already been accomplished in Jesus Christ, and in assuming his willing sacrafice as our own, we attain unto God's righteousness. It is not the work opf the Holy Spirit to make us 'not-guilty-before-God' (aka:righteous).

Jesus does not baptise us in His Holy Spirit to make us righteous, but to reprove, advise-advocate, and empower.

Yes, we need to want it; however, if we are indeed in Christ, He is our righteousness. It's a done deal.

Sanctification does not come through desire or prayer. Sactification comes through the obedience to GOD'S PLAN GOD'S WAY in GOD'S TIME.

God's plan is considering Jesus Sacrafice our own, and living it. It is not our faith, but rather the faith of He who gave His life for us. (Gal. 2:20)

As for 2 Timothy, it's Paul's last letter (we know of)before his head was chopped off. It's asked that you consider the words preceeding, and following as the basis for the conclusion in 2 Tim. 1:12---->context!

"I remind you to keep ablaze the gift of God that is in you through the laying on of my hands. For God has not given us a spirit of fearfulness, but one of power, love, and sound judgment. So don’t be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, or of me His prisoner. Instead, share in suffering for the gospel, relying on the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. This has now been made evident through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. For this ⌊gospel⌋ I was appointed a herald, apostle, and teacher, 12 and that is why I suffer these things. But I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to guard what has been entrusted to me a until that day. Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard, through the Holy Spirit who lives in us, that good thing entrusted to you.
~HCSB

The whole of all our message is the gospel of Jesus Christ, whether 'saved' or not. Redemption is a one time thing. Salvation-(deliverance, wholeness, preservation) is progressive.

1 Cor. 1:29-30

Love,
gregg
Acts 20:32

ginnyrose,

That last post did take a long time (2+ hours), unlike the first one you thought long.

...anyway...

There is no theological camp adhered to here. There has been no scholastic training by any denomination.

I was taught by a Messianic Rabbi, and also a student from Oakhills Bible Fellowship, having completed his 1st year. Between the two of them, i was trained to learn to stand on my own two knees in total reliance on God through the finished work of Jesus Christ (which indeed validates all scripture).

i am well read in Gentile theologies. doctrines, and apologetics, though the greater majority of these things ended up in the circular file, if not given back or returned for a refund.

Someone suggests reading something or listening to something, it's done if it's ok with His Spirit.

Through learning the fine points of Aramaic/Hebrew and basic Classical (Koine) Greek, the Bible read is not english, except when teaching, training or preaching.

In fact, i believe it is denominationalism that is one of the major factors dividing the church preventing unity of the faith, ("the faith" being the faith(fulness) in and of Jesus Christ, Gal. 1:8, 9, 12, Gal. 2:20)

What is texted results from learning to lean on Jesus.

The Bible is the book used here for life in the living. Anything else read is considered fiction, unless proven through the whole counsel of scripture and then tested through living ...and if there is no Biblical basis for it, especially when the claim is akin to "this is the way it's done", it's more than questioned.

...and it is not picking hairs to still ask you the answer about that paragraph you repeated 3 times, asking "do you not understand?" i may understand all too well, or maybe not at all, so it is asked again:
"Where does it say that in the Bible?"

Plain and simple, here is what all this has been all about Jn. 14:23 and Jn. 15:7. Everything else fails.

That's all.

It is still continually prayed that the scriptures given those girls finds a place to sink into the soil of their hearts and the Holy Spirit till it, and pruning through the Word of God bring a bountiful harvest through your sowing.

i am sorry that i frustrate you. i have seen some of the nicest people look and act like demons enraged to pour out hellbent destruction for just a few of their words questioned or just a few words spoken by yours truly.

You are very gracious.

Thank you.

Pray for me as i will continue in prayer for you.

Love,
gregg
(this took 14 minutes)

ginnyrose,

'gregg' is just fine or P or ggg or whatever is easiest.

Your experience being Jn. 15:7 says we are on the same page.
We will gain by each others perspective.

It was not intended to be a debate. Just a pouring out from personal experience through God's Spirit teaching.

Don't be impressed by aptitude.

Praise God, cause it's alot like Smith Wigglesworth's experience, which followed answered prayers for the teachers He wanted me to learn from. At times lexicons and the like are referred to, but seldom.

As well, some of my bestest teachers have been the tiny tots.

People sometimes tell me God speaks Queen's English, and i ask if i could see a KJV translation in Arabic or Mandarine.Please allow this one little ideosyncracy though, in laughter? For future reference, if that Amish joke, if you wish others -(who know German, and there are more than one thinks)- to laugh, it is "wo ist du" pronounced, "vo (long 'o') ist due."

Your last comment had me thinking for a few days. See, two biographies about a certain saint from Africa were just completed. He couldn't read and had no Bible, yet God met him at his point of need, in ways acceptable by his understanding: His voice, dreams, and visions. God led the boy to a Christian school where neccessary learning occurred along-side his growth in The Faith.
( The life of this saint, Samuel Morris is astounding ...
and Lysa, you are remembered as prayers continue.)

People ask, "what type Bible do you use?", or things like "what is your method of Bible Study?"

It's not about whatever version because the method of Bible Study is this alone: on my knees.

Revelation comes only towards personal application. Yet, these things are not spelled out with others until what God has taught is lived out in an overcoming way.

(What right do i have to talk about what i don't understand, unless it be questions? Doing this could mislead.)

Some think it's instant, and some-(very few)-times it is.
Usually, these things come through being repeatedly held back a grade in the school of hard knocks.

God Bless you too,

gregg

p.s. This is the prayer that continues for those of us here on SI and elsewhere, who bring things up we ourselves and/or they are unsure about:
Col. 1:9, 10, 11, 12.
Please join in this prayer towards us all.